Conference 7.286::digital

    I can see the restriction on adult kids......but grandchildren??  Maybe
    the Grinch That Stole Christmas is working for Personnel now.
    
    

	The Canobie Lake Outing literature was specific in stating it was
available for employees and their DEPENDENT children only.  I understand your
frustration (and as far as I'm concerned, your grandkids are welcome to take
my place), but they do have to draw the line somewhere, blurry as it might be
at times.

--Mike

    
    � they do have to draw the line somewhere
    
    
    Why?  We trust our employees to do the right thing regarding customers
    who are worth millions to Digital.  Why can't we trust their discretion
    regarding a lousy picnic?
    
    -dave

re .-1:

Apparently there's been a lot of abuse, with employees bringing their
friends, neighbors, third cousins twice removed, etc.  It may be hard
to believe, but not all employees are honest.  Got any DEC pencils
at home?

    Wouldn't it be a better idea to give each employee the same number of
    tickets each year . A family of four would receive 4 tickets even if he
    has been with the company 15 years and his children were now 30 years
    old . He could then throw the away , give them away or use them him
    self . I am sure if he wanted to take a couple of grand with him to the
    park for the day , the kids would love it and the grandfather would be
    be remembered for it . Oh ya don't you think dec would be remembered
    for it also , as well as building future costomer and employees and a
    reputation that dec is still a family company and does not have a
    policy that keeps you grandchildren from going to canobi lake park .
    

    I'm single, I don't have children, I'm vegetarian, and my friends don't 
    enjoy amusement parks.  Canobie Lake is just another time of year when 
    I feel disenfranchised by this company.  Frankly, I'd rather the money
    spent on Canobie Lake was spent on something like saving some jobs.

    re .0
    
    My 3 year old son spends all of his time with his "best friend" (Well
    actually, his second best friend, he says I am his best friend). My
    wife is now approx 6 months pregnant, and doesn't feel up to tromping
    around the amusement park.  Am I allowed to take the two boys (mine and
    his friend), instead of me, my wife, and son? Also, an old friend is
    arriving tonight. Would using my valid 3 tickets for myself, my friend
    and my son, be OK? WHere is the line....
    
    q
    

�    <<< Note 1622.7 by BUNYIP::QUODLING "What time is it? QUITTING TIME!" >>>
�	WHere is the line....[?]
    
	Wherever your conscience chooses to draw it, I suppose.

	I say use the three tickets you're entitled to in any way you see fit.

--Mike

re: .4,

>  Got any DEC pencils at home?

    	Yes, as a matter of fact, I think I do have some DEC pencils
    at home.  I use them to do DEC work at home.  What about it?

    				   -davo

Ok, I'm still not sure here.  Does Digital 

		a) rent the park at a flat rate?
		b) Pay by the ticket distributed to the employees?
		c) pay by the tickets given at the gate to Canobie Lake?

Since we distribute the tickets in advance there is always unforseen
circumstances will can keep a valid ticket holder from getting to the outing.
So, if a or b is true it makes sense for the employee to find someone to use
the tickets.  If c is true then its wrong to let someone else use the tickets.

If we don't know the answer do we know who is the ultimate responsible person?
I'll call if we have a name.

gog

    
    
    The most commonly heard (and as yet totally unsupported) rumor about
    Canobie Lake is that DEC pays a flat rate rentalfor the park for a
    specific number of days - AFTER THE OFFICIAL PARK SEASON CLOSE. 
    
    Tobin's provides food at wholesale with DEC picking up transportation,
    equipment rental, storage, etc.
    
    the last tally I remember hearing about was over 70,000 people in 5 
    weekends at a cost to DEC of somewhere around $50 per person.
    
    Again, these figures are unsupported by any kind of tally sheet except
    for a few comments in DTW.
    

�            <<< Note 1622.11 by BTOVT::CACCIA_S "the REAL steve" >>>
�    weekends at a cost to DEC of somewhere around $50 per person.
 
	Please tell me you left out a decimal point between the 5 and the 0!

	If not, then CL costs the company $3.5 million?  Ouch.		--Mike

    The $50 per person cost seems high given that during it's open season
    an all day ride ticket for Canobie costs $13 for a much longer day, in
    a much more desirable season and the Tobin food isn't that
    good/expensive.
    
    I might believe it if the cost were $50 per attending employee since
    one would be writing off the cost of dependants and S/O's. A cost of
    $10-15 per head seems reasonable assuming an average of 2-3 dependent
    attendees with each attending employee.
    
    This would bring the total Canobie bill to about $700-$1000K (assuming
    the previous figure of 70K attendance) which translates to equivalent
    cost of about 7-15 jobs. 
    
    /jim
    

    	I wish we could get off this trend of counting expenses in 
    	terms of "jobs."  
    
    	DEC is not in the employment business.  If we don't need 
    	those ten people, I'd rather see that money spent on the
    	ones still here than on providing make-work, do-nothing jobs
    	for ten people.
    
    	If we dumped CL and hired ten people instead, what would
    	you propose they do?
    
    	I wonder if people would prefer a $50/employee bonus over a
    	day at Canobie Lake.  I think I would (although my kids might
    	differe with my opinion...)
    
    	BTW, here in Colorado Springs we had a day at the Denver Zoo.
    	The food was also catered, and while the serving hours were
    	not considered to be the optimum according to most who attended,
    	it was certainly much better than anything I experienced at the
    	CL outings when I used to live back east.  I believe we did the
    	day for something like $7/person.  (Not $7 per employee, but per
    	gate count.)
    
    	We used to do an annual outing at a place called Elitch's Garden
    	which is an amusement park (that is better than CL in my
    	estimation.)  I understand that used to be $10/person.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    it wouldn't be bad if everyone had an appreciation day that they could
    bring their families to. there is alot of field people that do not
    receive anything tru out the year. i know because i come from the new
    england area and i use to be the eac president for nio. we had cl day
    and also a two day affair for the employees only during working hours.
    we in the field and i mean the remote offices in the u.s. do not
    receive a turkey or any kind of appreciation day. if this is suppose to
    be one company i think we all should receive something if not then stop
    the whole thing complete and save the company money. just my 2cents
    

    re .-1
    
    Right, and while we're at it, let's stop sending successful
    salespersons on those fancy reward trips to hot places.  After
    all, all I get's a %$^& turkey, and I don't eat meat.   And
    furthermore, they're only selling stuff that *I* stayed here
    all night to write.  :-)
    
    --
    
    Seriously, I don't think it's likely to be possible to make sure
    all employees are treated 'exactly alike'.  For a start, that seems
    to imply centralized control, with rigorous adherence to the letter
    of the policy.  Doesn't sound like a place I'd like to work.
    
    

    Someone just suggested in the DELTA conference that it would be real
    nice to see some senior management at Canobie Lake. Ken, Jack and a few
    others wandering around, kissing babies and shaking hands. It would
    put real appreciation behind the appreciation day.
    
    While I am here, does anyone known when the Rain day is for the
    cancelled CL of last Sunday. I presume next Sunday, but would hate to
    turn up and look foolish...
    
    q
    

>    While I am here, does anyone known when the Rain day is for the
>    cancelled CL of last Sunday. I presume next Sunday, but would hate to
>    turn up and look foolish...
 
	It's Saturday. Show up Sunday and you will look a bit silly as Saturday
	is the last day and only rain day. Although if Saturday is rained out
	there will be an other rain day.

			Alfred

    	Field people don't get turkeys and other perks because they are
    	paid better than everybody else.
    
    	Why else would they take the job?
    
    
    
    	:^)

    
    re .17
    
    i'd prefer if ko would read notes once in a while..

    re: .anyone that wants to be warmly remembered by a grandchild...
    
    If you are looking to favorably impress a few grandchildren (my inlaws
    have 13 of them) why not just bring them to Canobie Lake Park during
    the regular season, which runs weekends starting near the end of May
    and going full-time 7-days a week from mid-June to Labor Day? Or is it
    that the kids are not worth it for YOU to spend YOUR money on their
    admission and other expenses? Besides, it can be tough to enjoy the day
    at the park during some of the colder weekends experienced locally. The
    summertime can be better relied-upon for better weather.
    
    My sincere sympathy goes out to anyone offended by the implication that
    they should spend their own money on entertainment once in awhile.
    
    As generous as this company can be perceived as being, it doesn't seem
    to rub off onto some people... 
    
    Just putting this problem into my own perspective.
    
    Mike

	re; 21.


		I know I started all this, but please don't misunderstand me.
The problem I had with this is that something changed 
( or rules that were NEVER enforced  began to be enforced without notification)
I certainly don't have a problem with spending my own money on my grandchildren
( show me a grandfather that does !) I'd certainly be pleased to take them to
canobie on my own - however it's closed right now - except to Digital. This 
outing is something that they have gone to before and I told my kids that they
would go again.

		My whole problem is that I didn't know about the change until
I was standing in line to get my tickets. I sure as He** don't have a problem with 
saving Digital money. I was actually surprised that we were doing the outing
this year what with all the problems. IT'S OK WITH ME IF WE EITHER DON'T HAVE
AN OUTING OR IF IT IS VERY STRICTLY CONTROLLED -- JUST LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT
AND MAKE SURE IT IS CONSISTENTLY ENFORCED ( I have been told that I just
stood in the wrong line and that others had no problems nor were the names
and ages checked on thier forms ( wonder if I should get paranoid) ).

		As far as all the discussion about a reward and/or appreciation 
day, for me it is every Thursday that I get a paycheck, it means that Digital 
appreciates my work and I in turn show my appreciation by working hard for my 
 next paycheck.

		As I originally stated it was " unknown rules" and not a 
complaint that kids or grandkids couldn't go, only that I wasn't informed that
it would be different ( they went in past years).

    
    
    The rules haven't changed.....
    
    It would seem that they weren't properly explained/understood by
    everyone.
    
    
    BTW
    
    Believe it or not people have been known to get extra tickets and 
    SELL them........
    
    	I, for one, am glad they started enforcing the rules considering
    all the abuse that some people have given the thing.
    
    
    

    
    Saturday has been changed to *Sunday*.
    
    Anyone know what time the gates open?
    
    Jeanne
    

    This is a new twist, changin the date from Sat to Sunday a day in
    advance!  Due to Weather.
    
    Saterday could not have been a better date [cool, but its October.]
    A person changing the date solely from a New England weather forecast a
    day in advance could not have been from this area!
    
    This will be the first one we've missed.  We can't go on Sunday.  Our
    first site day was Sunday.  So we opted for the all other day which was
    to be a Saterday.  personally will absolutly refuse to change dates for
    a person.
    I guess valueing differences and religous values are only lip service.
    I should be luckly I have a job.  I hear that term a lot.
    Seems like they can take away resonably priced health insurance, move
    your site location to a different sate without compensation, and do
    most anything these days in the name of 'your luckly you still ahve a
    job'.
    maybe I am.  

    ME, I am annoyed. THe original scheduled ZKO day, it was raining, so I
    go sit in the car  (the only AM radio we have that picks up 1030.) for
    over an hour before finally hearing the word that it was  off. The
    notification of the replacement day was poor at the very least. Only
    some pro-active searching saved me from turning up the wrong day.  I
    listen to the radio Saturday Morning for over an hour, and no mention
    of closure. SO we get in the car, head all of the way over there, to
    find it closed and Sunday being the designated day, now. Well between
    previous plans, and managing to partially destroy something in my cars
    syuspension on saturday meandering the poorly sign-posted back roads
    into Canobie Lake, I (or more importantly my son) missed out.
    
    Solutions. For one, broadcast more frequently on an FM station. No
    re-schedule for following day tricks. Try to run it all a little
    earlier in the year.
    
    q

    Ah, well.  My family chooses not to go on Sundays because it conflicts
    with our religion.  Since our site was scheduled for a Sunday, I asked
    in advance for a Saturday ticket and was given the alternate date of
    this weekend.  We got there and ...  Anyway, we were urged by others to
    just crash the gate during one of the Saturday events.  And, my family
    really wanted to go so it was tempting.  But, we didn't because we
    value being honest about such things.  It was really disappointing that
    this year, because of our insistence on "holding the Sabbath day holy"
    and "being honest" it was not possible for our family to make the trek
    to Canobie.  My wife flat out told me that this was what made my
    working for Digital worth while since she looked forward to this every
    year.  I had to calm her down ...
    
    This is not sour grapes, however.  Digital is still a good company and
    they didn't really have to put on Canobie Lake for anyone.  We've made
    it a family tradition over past years, but it was basically icing on
    the cake.  We won't be counting on Canobie Lake anymore, but that
    doesn't mean we don't appreciate what Digital and the volunteers have
    done for us over the years.  We really have had several years of
    enjoyment at the outing and have a lot of fond memories.  We'll just
    cherish those thoughts and move on.
    
    Steve

    	Well, you didn't miss much. I, for one, was really happy about it
    switching from Saturday to Sunday because we were going to have a
    difficult time making it on Saturday but were free on Sunday. Although
    the last-minute change was a bit of a surprise to me, it didn't seem to
    be a surprise to the several million people who showed up on Sunday.
    	This was my second time going on the "rain date," and this will be
    my last. I'd rather pay than go through that again. The crowds were
    ridiculous. Huge lines for every ride...people pushing and shoving to
    get their kids onto the rides...People standing in enormous food lines
    for an hour in order to get some cold, disgusting, free food (I waited
    until the lines died down, stood in line for 20-30 minutes with my now
    restless, hungry children, and got cold hotdogs for each of us since my
    line was out of everything else and we couldn't "borrow" from any other
    line - Fortunately, I didn't have a meat cleaver in my back pocket at
    this point).
    	Maybe this time the horrible experience will stick in my mind.

    re: Sunday Canobie vs. religion vs. Valuing Differences

    I'm really getting bummed out by the selfishness I see all around me
    these days.  

    For the record, I consider it pretty tasteless to whine about a Sunday
    Canobie Lake outing being an affront to one's religious differences
    while not acknowledging that the normal Saturday event already excludes
    a number of employees for the same reason.

    -joe tomkowitz

    Wow,
    
    I couldnt believe a simple free day at a FUN park could create so much
    derision. That's what it's there for, to have F.U.N, folks.
     
    As an DECcy who is sitting here at 5.15AM on the other side of the
    world, waiting for yet another compile to complete, reading how its
    all such a hassle. How the hamburgers are cold, the brats push in
    while your little angels wait dutifully, how everyone gouges for
    tickets, how it takes 8 attempts just to get there. Its the same every 
    year, and I sit here thinking "Oh no, not another Canobie lake notes 
    topic!". 
    
    Gads, some release from tension, I have a mental image of lots of
    people, complete with dogs hopping into their cars and heading off
    to Wallyworld just like the Griswolds in National Lampoon's "Vacation".
    Come to think of it, maybe Canobie Lake is a way for people outside
    of the greater Mass./N.H area to release tension by reading of the
    exploits of our poor Canobie brethren as they embark for their 30th
    attempt to get to a fun park, only to see the heavens open up
    (that's what you get for going on a Sunday 8^)) 3 feet from the main gate.
    I can see that it must take a logistics team the size of that which
    organized the last Olympics to get this together. I'm all for staff
    motivation, by the end of this every person who returns from Camp
    Grenada seems to want to strangle the first ten people they come near.
    
    Oh my,
    its just turned daylight,
    
    
    

    Well, it is like Wallyworld...
    
    We were there yesterday.  It was cold in the morning, but there was
    no rain at all for a change.  The lines were very long, but in my
    opinion folks were well-behaved, maybe even more than usual.  The
    food lines were the longest I've seen, but they moved quickly, and
    there were no menu surprises (:^}.  There were lots of happy kids!
    
    And, after all, the *kids* had a great time & that's what the outing is
    really all about.  I know mine are looking forward to next year.
    
    (Oh, if you found a green rabbit's foot near the Caterpillar, my daughter
    would really like it back.)

    re: .29
    
    What are you talking about?  My note?  An "affront"?  You've got to be
    kidding ...  Sir, you apparently have more of a chip on your shoulder 
    than I do.
    
    Me, whining?  Maybe.  I've had to go ask for special tickets about
    half the time and that's an annoyance.  Last time we were given tickets
    and were assured they would be on a Saturday.  When we got the tickets,
    they were for a different date than we were told they would be -- on 
    a Sunday.  We crashed the gate with the tickets we were given on the day 
    we were told they would be for.  It's an annual problem.  Would be for
    anyone that held Saturday as the Sabbath, too.
    
    Steve

re:28

I thought the crowds were MUCH better than I expected.   The lines for food
were very long, but they moved quickly.  We must have went on the less popular
ride, because our LONGEST wait was about 20 minutes.  Most were much shorter.

I won't be surprised if it's discontinued, but I was gald we went.

		Bob 

    If the person who found and turned in my wifes' perscription eyeglasses
    is a DEC noter..thanks a million.  With the crowd we thought for sure
    they were lost, or would be found smashed.  Even my pocketbook thanks
    you with a free lunch if we meet up.
    Regards, Boston Bob

	Reply to some things in .31

    The lines were very long, but in my opinion folks were well-behaved, 
    maybe even more than usual.  

>>>>> Were you at CANOBIE LAKE PARK in New Hampshire?  I sure wasn't at the
same place...couldn't have been?!?

The food lines were the longest I've seen, 

>>>>> Ditto.  Same as the one I was in.  And mine got "merged" with the next
one...an interesting contest...


    but they moved quickly, 

>>>>> Woops,  wrong park again...

    and
    there were no menu surprises (:^}.  There were lots of happy kids!
    
    And, after all, the *kids* had a great time & that's what the outing is
    really all about.  I know mine are looking forward to next year.
    
>>>>>Yes,  but...hopefully fewer people will attend...or those that do,  please
comport yourself a little better...don't push your kids ahead of other
kids...OK??????

	I'm not talking about kids pushing kids.  Adults pushing kids.  That's
not nice!!!!!!!


	BTW,  one of the replies mentioned no top brass at CL.  I saw Bill
Demmer several times during the day...last year anyway...