Conference 7.286::digital

    Yet another example of the Process that was designed to serve becoming
    more important that the problem that it was designed to solve.
    
    We are extremely adept at turning the "Means" to an end, into an end in
    it's own right....
    
    sigh...
    
    q
    

    Maybe this is a local problem?  My husband recently submitted expenses
    for a business trip and was reimbursed within 24 hours using EFT.  We
    would have waited *weeks* for a check...

How close is your husband to a 'data entry' point? Many people in the
field have paper shuffled within an office and then on to another office
which adds delays. Your husbands' 24 hr. turnaround is certainly an
exception from what most people experience.

Lee

    Here in Albuquerque I hear it goes at the end of every day. Still
    not fast enough for some people...it removes a certain amount  of
    flexibilty in handling finances, especially for employees who tend
    to live paycheck to paycheck, and may need to make prompt deposits.
    The " I have to pay bills, but can't clear my voucher until Friday
    morning as my manager isn't here to sign, but if I deposit the check
    right away I won't bounce any of my own" syndrome!
    
    Marty

Heres another got-ya of this eft system.  My wife and I both work for DEC but
the DCU account has my badge number on it.  She gets a message saying they CAN
NOT transfer into our DCU account because it has my badge number as the primary
account holder.

Wonderful!  I tell her to get out of EFT.  In the meantime she gets a piece of
DEC internal mail saying $xxx.xx has been deposited into a DCU account with her
badge number - this is after we had the live check in our hands!

We then checked with DCU and they said - no -no way.

With those lovely DCU fees I will NOT open another account to make EFT work for
her nor will I change the current account to her to badge.

The people she talked to that worked on EFT said they can deposit the check
ONLY by badge number.

Wonderful !

Brian

    So far I have only one data point, but the money was deposited in my
    account within 48 hours of clearing the expenses.  I would like 24 max,
    but 48 doesn't seem too horrendous (the checks often stay in my wallet
    much longer than that).
    
    -ken

    EFT only allows checks to be deposited into your DCU checking account.
    As someone who travels a lot I have a separate account for travel; no
    way I wan to get my checking account and my travel reimbursements all
    mixed up. So until they change this, I and others I know won;t sign up
    for it. People who have signed up have said they get it by end of the
    day.
    
    yf
    

    re-1:  My EFT goes directly into my checking account at my regular
    bank, not my DCU checking account.
    
    Mark
    

re: .7
>   People who have signed up have said they get it by end of the day.

I hate to disagree with a member of my own group, but this is not correct.  We
get an electronic mail message later the same day saying the Employee Expense 
transaction "has been processed."  But it seems to take 2 full business days 
before a phone call to the DCU's easy touch system shows that the money is 
actually available.

So if you are going on a trip, make sure and have your advance processed a 
little earlier than usual, or the money won't be available until you get back.

John

I came very close to bouncing $3000 dollars worth of checks and probably 
doing a great deal of damage to my credit rating in the process, thanks to 
my participation in the EFT program.

I recently ran a $3100 tab on my corporate AMEX card teaching in Denmark. 
Because I had an advance out, all the usual mileage forms and other refunds
piled up waiting for me to clear the advance. 

The paperwork was signed last Friday, and I got 5 messages in a row saying 
that several thousand plus several hundred dollars had been deposited in 
account.  I had given my badge number, I believe, to enroll in the EFT 
program, so it made sense that this was going into either my DCU checking 
or savings accounts.

I wrote several thousand dollars worth of checks (including all my own 
bills) and paid the AMEX bill from the Denmark trip and mailed them over 
the weekend.

On Wednesday, I luckily happened to use my ATM card to get some cash and
noticed that I had a very low balance.  It seemed extremely unlikely that
everything had cleared so fast, so where was the money?  Not in checking
and not in savings, 5 days after getting a confirmation. 

Thursday morning, I ran to DCU in somewhat of a panic, imagining the check 
bounce fees starting to pile up.  They had no record of a deposit.  Now I 
also have a Bay Bank checking account that $12 a week is diverted to in 
order to make a loan payment.  I don't use that account, and I don't have 
checks for it, so I rarely even think about it.  DCU explained that the EFT 
refunds go wherever your "net pay" goes.  To me, your "net pay" is what is left 
over after taxes and FICA...but to DEC it turns out that your "net pay" is
the amount that goes to some outside bank, neatly sidestepping the credit
union.  

I went to Petty Cash, where I was listened to quite sympathetically.  Turns 
out that it is impossible to divert these refunds to anyplace that would be 
useful to me in terms of writing checks.  Instead, I would have to drive to
a Bay Bank in Massachusetts and get a cashier's check and run back to DCU
with it.  I cancelled my participation in the EFT program and wrote some
rather emphatic comments detailing what I thought of the potential impact
of this program on my financial standing and credit rating. 

Then the fun really started.  I'm already well into the morning, and at 
this point determine I will have to skip an important meeting in order to 
pick up the pieces of this mess before any checks are processed.

I drive to Chelmsford, and wait in line at the Bay Bank for a teller.
I finally get to the window to find that yes, I have several thousand
dollars in my account, but no, she can't give it to me.  I have to go stand
in line to talk to one of the people who actually has a desk and get
permission to withdraw my own money.  In order to do this, I have to
explain why I want it.  I found myself standing in line while one person
with a desk haggles with someone on the phone over a $10 dollar discrepancy
in some account for 20 minutes, and the next person with a desk waits
patiently while an elderly gentleman signs several thousand dollars worth of
travelers checks -- in 50s, I believe.  Meanwhile, I'm visualizing thousands
of dollars worth of damage occuring while I wait for permission to withdraw
money they never should have seen. 

I finally get to talk to someone who can give me the permission (after 
having me explain EFT about 5 times) only to find out there's a $5 service fee
for the cashier's check!  (I was willing to take cash, but they didn't think
that was a good idea at all.) 

I finally head back to DCU and hit the lunch line crowd in the credit 
union, all of whom seemed to be either depositing pennies, or ordering new 
checks.  I got back to my desk at noon -- net loss to DEC of 3.5 hours work 
time when I could have been doing something useful and productive for the 
company.

The good news was that no checks had bounced.

If Digital is going to offer programs such as EFT to "save the company 
money", the person in charge of the program needs to ensure that employees 
understand exactly where their funds will go, and when.  My morning cost 
the company a fair amount of money, in addition to the mileage driving to 
Chelmsford from Nashua.  Too bad I can't get the 5 bucks back...

Holly
    

re: .10

Neat story, nicely embellished with all your travails, but who messed up?
The signup sheet for EFT clearly states the coupling between
EFT deposits and your payroll's "net pay" distribution.
My pay stub has a slot that names the bank and account number where 
my net pay goes, does yours?
Yes, "net pay" is what's left over after all deductions (taxes, insurance,
credit union deposits, stock, etc.).  Normally, this is what people
live on, though some use things like fixed credit union deductions
into a checking account and earmark the remainder for savings.

Yes, the EFT program is restrictive about where you can divert money.
Payroll is too, as the discussion a few months ago about people
trying to get net pay deposited into savings outlined.
Your reply title was "Do you know where your money is?"
It seems that you signed up for the program not adequately knowledgeable
about where your money would go.  Didn't you ask, or were you misled?

    I think I clearly described the erroneous assumption I made, and took
    credit for it.  "Net pay" has both a specific-to-Digital meaning, and a
    generic meaning.  I never knew other than the generic meaning that I
    learned back in 7th grade.  To me the part-I-get-to-keep goes in the
    credit union, except for a few dollars that goes to another bank where
    I have to maintain an account for the purposes of automatic loan
    repayment.
    
    My paycheck rarely changes; I may be weird, but I can't say as I've
    ever "read" it since I got the first one years ago.
    
    The main point of the memo was that this could happen to other people,
    since this is a new program, and I'd like to save others the anguish I
    went through as well as the possibility of bounced checks.
    
    The secondary points of the memo were 
    
    1)  that it's not a useful program unless the employee can direct the money
    to a place where it can be used without (in my case) driving to another
    state to get a cashier's check
    
    2) that the people in charge of the program should have a mechanism to
    let an employee know exactly when and where the money was transferred.
    Getting a memo saying "we sent it" is only half the story, especially
    when you're dealing in thousands of dollars.  The employee also needs
    to know where and when it was deposited.
    
    (I wasn't aware that my story needed an executive summary.) 
    ;-)
    
    Holly
    
    

    Holly, great story.  Like you, I always figured "net pay" is where the
    majority of my money goes.  For my check, I have about 97% of it going
    to my primary bank, and the other 3% going to DCU for savings.  I bet
    in this case, my EFT stuff would be deposited in DCU, simply because
    that (to me) is the more illogical place.  However, unlike you, being
    of great skepticism with many of these "nifty money-saving ideas", I
    specifically declined to sign up for EFT.
    
    By the way, if you have a receipt for your $5, I would think that would
    be a fully reimburseable expense voucher item....
    
    Jon

    If .13 is trying to imply that Digital Equipment Corporate should re-
    imburse the author of .10, then .10 DOES need an executive summary.
     
    To simplify things, .10 should read something like this:
    I signed up with Payroll and Petty Cash to do an EFT to my DCU account.
    Then I asked the DCU to make a secondary transfer with some algorythm
    about "net pay" to another bank. Then Petty Cash sent several grand
    to the account I authorized them to send it to at the DCU. Then 
    Petty Cash sent me a notice that they sent it to my account. Petty
    CAsh only implied in the notice that it was the account number used
    on the orignal sign up cards. Then the DCU made a decision to send
    the several grand to my other bank and this transfer caused me all
    kinds of grief. WOE IS ME!
     
    .12 seems to be asking the Petty Cash people to send notices of deposit
    on secondary transfers. Petty Cash can't do this as they have no way
    of knowing where employee's financial institutions are sending money.
    These secondary transfers are private and confidential transactions
    known only to individuals and their financial institutions.
    
     

Re: .14

Wrong summary.  Try this:

	Some time ago, I authorized direct deposit of my paycheck into
	Baybank.  To do this, I had to fill out a form and include a voided
	check.  I then received a notice confirming this action.  On my
	paystubs, the name of the bank, the account number and "Net Pay"
	amount were clearly printed.

	Next, I went to DCU and filled out a payroll deduction form authorizing
	a deduction of most of my pay to go into my DCU account, leaving
	a "net pay" of $12 to go to Baybank.

	Recently, I signed up for EFT.  The literature clearly stated that
	the deposit would go to the same bank into which my "net pay" was
	deposited, but I had become so used to thinking of the DCU deduction
	as my actual pay that I didn't recognize that the EFT payment would
	go to the bank and account named on my paystub.

	Digital, per my instructions, deposited my travel reimbursement into
	my Baybank account, but the notice of the transfer didn't indicate
	the bank name, so I didn't realize my mistake until I noticed that
	my DCU balance was too low.  I then had to go to my other bank and
	get a cahsiers check so that the money could be deposited into
	DCU before the checks I wrote bounced. 

Holly, I sympathize with you, but I just don't see how you weren't aware
that Digital considered Baybank to be the place to which your pay was
deposited, and that your DCU deposits were considered a "voluntary deduction".

				Steve

Holly's problem is a classic example of bad system design, in which
the provider and receiver are using two conflicting definitions of
the same information.

The "right" solution would have been to allow the EFT sign-up sheet to
designate the account.

The "better" solution would have been for the EFT software to notice
that payroll disbursements are being made to multiple accounts and to
generate a form letter that read:
	Dear Holly, in processing your EFT request, I noticed that
	your payroll is currently being distributed to accounts X, Y,
	and Z.  Your EFT distribution has been set to account X --
	your net-pay account.  If this is incorrect, please call
	DTN xxx-xxxx to change this designation.

	Sincerely,

	HAL 9000

Was there some intrinsic (legal) reason to allow only one possible
EFT account, or did the system designer try to get out of writing
an additional 15 lines of code?

Reinbursement to Holly raises a second issue: if I were running Digital,
I would reimburse her under the "do the right thing" clause -- the
cost to Digital would be trivial, and she would feel better about the
company.

Martin.

	re .16:

>Holly's problem is a classic example of bad system design, in which
>the provider and receiver are using two conflicting definitions of
>the same information.

	I completely agree with Martin. Like many of our systems (internal
	and external) this one seems to lack even any concept of customer
	satisfaction.

	Of course it helps that I know Holly. Not well, but I have used
	and benefited from some of her excellent and creatve work. So I
	know that she is a hard-working, conscientious, highly intelligent
	and sensible employee. Now, I start from the point of view that
	the payment system is a sevice which Digital provides to a customer,
	namely Holly. (The fact that she is an employee doesn't make a
	shred of difference to the quality standards that should apply).

	What I hear from Holly is that she, the customer, found the system
	obscure and confusing, and that it ended up causing her a lot of
	trouble - and costing Digital some of her valuable time.

	What I hear from several of the earlier replies is "tough luck -	
	you shoulda RTFM". Even from Steve Lionel! (I think that's the
	*gist* of what you said).

	But people, in the 1990s that attitude is DEAD! Systems have to
	suit, satisfy and delight the customer - and the customer is
	always right! I don't believe we can or should attempt to
	draw a line between "customer-facing" and "internal" systems,
	with the former meeting quality requirements, and the latter
	more appropriate to Stalinist Russia. (Actually, I don't believe
	there is that much of a line, and I honestly believe a lot of
	our real customers, who pay our salaries, are feeling the way
	Holly did *every day*. As the cliche tells us, 90% of them won't
	bother to complain - they'll just buy elsewhere.)

	To put it another way, the profitability of selling hardware,
	operating systems, and "standard off the shelf" software is
	all going down. By the same token, the profitability of giving
	people *exactly what they want* (even better, if possible, before
	they realise it's what they want) is going up. Do you see that
	Holly's issue is a touchstone for which of these businesses
	we want to be in?

	/Tom

    Thanks for all the summaries.  For me this isn't a right/wrong or
    good/bad issue.  I'm willing to parade my ability to misunderstand the
    system (in spite of my best intentions to RTFM) in front of the
    whole company, and look foolish in the eyes of many, if I can save
    others a few bounced checks, and point out to the system designers the
    potential impact of this kind of misunderstanding by reasonably
    intelligent employees.
    
    I think Martin and Tom stated the situation very accurately, and much
    more objectively than I was able to at the time.  (All I could manage
    was a little humor.)  
    
    There are many, many Digital employees who understood perfectly well
    what was meant by all of this the first time, and correctly assessed
    whether they should participate in the program.  
    
    According to the mail I've been getting, there are lots more (like
    myself) who honestly misunderstood, and who *did not have a clear idea*
    where their money was being directed or when they could expect to
    receive it.  A number of people were able to make sure that they did
    not repeat my misunderstanding because they received my memo.
    
    It makes sense to reiterate potentially confusing data involving
    financial transactions.  This is an area where I appreciate redundancy.
    
    When you get a record of a transaction from the EFT program, it looks
    like this.  
    =====================================================================
    
From:	ZKOMTS::ZKOMTS::MRGATE::"GRANIT::MRGATE::HYSTER::PETTYCASH"  8-SEP-1991 22:47:45.85
To:	SUPER::HENDRICKS
CC:	
Subj:	Employee Disbursments expense transaction notification

From:	NAME: PETTYCASH <PETTYCASH@HYSTER@MRGATE@GRANIT@MKO>
To:	HOLLY HENDRICKS@ZKO

This notification is to confirm that your                                       
Employee Expense transaction has been processed.                                
Badge Number    : XXXXXX                                                        
Control Number  : 250646                                                        
Payment amount  :  $2463.61                                                     
Process date    : 09/06/91                                                      
Processing site : ZKO                                                           
    
    ======================================================================
    
    It would have made a *huge* difference to me if the following paragraph
    had been appended:
    
    *****************************************************************
    *IMPORTANT*
    
    This money will be deposited in the account where your net pay is
    usually deposited within 48 hours.  See the net pay box on your
    paycheck to verify which of your accounts will be credited. 
    
    ****************************************************************
    
    Even if the systems design wasn't perfect, a release note can save the
    "customer" an awful lot of grief.
    
    Holly

Re: .17

It was not really my intention to say to Holly (whom I also know) "tough
luck".  I was correcting the misstatement of the problem in the earlier
reply.

However, I agree that the system could be friendlier, as all information
relevant to the transaction should be included.  Perhaps this will be done,
and there will be a benefit from Holly's experience.

					Steve

    Hi Folks,  the following is a memo I sent to Holly the other day
    regarding the problems she encountered with EFT.  Please bear with me
    as a less than expert in "Notes".
    
    As means of introduction, I was the project manager for the EFT project
    and work for the EMFMC Employee Disbursements Expertise Center.
    
    I must apologize for the inconvenience Holly experienced recently.  I
    did some further checking and I'm sure if Holly were to check her
    paystub, what she would find is that the banking institution listed for
    her "net pay" (that's what is left after any voluntary or sometimes
    involuntary deductions) is Bay Bank.  Clearly the application for EFT
    states that your EFT transaction would be deposited into that same
    account.  I'm sure that what Holly would find is that she has numerous
    "voluntary deductions" which she has set up with the DCU which accounts
    for the confusion she experienced.
    
    Today, the Employee Disbursements organization is utilizing Payroll's
    Banking information file which has real limitations (ie. only one
    account can be listed, checking accounts only, etc)  Hence, we cannot
    offer multiple accounts, nor choices for employees.  One of the things
    we tried to be very clear on was that employees needed to look at their
    paystub to ensure they understood exactly what "net pay" meant.
    
    The decision to utilize Payroll's information was made for several
    reasons:
    
    o	It was in direct conflict with Digital's Financial Architecture to
    establish a second reference file since Payroll maintains one already.
    
    o	All direct deposits processed thru the Federal Reserve must be
    prenoted - (this takes approximately 10 working days for each account
    submitted)  Payroll had already prenoted all the accounts and as the
    Expertise Center for Direct Deposit understands all the regulations
    that DEC needs to adhere to with regarding to Banking regulations and
    specific state laws.
    
    The EMFMC Expertise Center is currently in the beginning stages of
    project planning for a new EE system.  We are meeting with Payroll on
    just this issue  - multiple choices for employees - today the
    limitation is not acceptable to all employees.  All suggestions are
    being incorporated int key issues and desired functionality.
    
    Again I apologize for Holly's inconvenience.  Certainly the
    introduction of EFT was not done to add time to everyone's busy day.,
    etc.......
    
    To add to this lengthly note..  I hope I have answered some of the
    questions and reasons why decisions were made to go this route.  As
    added info - even Payroll does not know what further arrangements an
    employee has made with regard to their pay so what Martin has suggested
    is impossible and I'm not sure it's really DEC's business what each
    employee does with their pay.  Legally, Martin is correct, as long as
    we get approval from the employee, we should be able to deposit
    anywhere provided that account has been prenoted, itt was not to get
    out of writing 15 lines of code.  Our hope is that with feedback and
    suggestions from our customers - the employees - we will better service
    them.
    
    I like Holly's suggestion (1580.18) and I am bringing that forward as a 
    coding change in the notification.  My hope is that we can implement that 
    change ASAP.  
    In the meantime, we will be working on communication.

    RE: .20 Thanks for the reply. Can you tell us how often the
    system makes deposits? It sort of seems from my experience and
    from your note that deposits are only made once a week, with
    our pay. Is this the case?

    		Alfred

    Your response is appreciated.  Your positive, solution-oriented
    approach is especially appreciated, as is the explanation of why the
    system does not currently allow more choices.
    
    Readers of this conference will have all the information they need to
    make the best possible decision about participating in EFT.
    
    I think one problem is that 'net pay' can be interpreted differently,
    and as a result some redundancy is definitely in order; and another
    problem is that if there is a time lag between when you sign up for the
    program and when you have a check deposited, you no longer have the
    benefit of referring to the original signup sheet (which at any rate
    used the term 'net pay').
    
    If you believe in redundancy as much as I do, perhaps it would even be
    useful to have the software that references the payroll file send
    people a memo after signing up for the program saying something like
    this:
    
    	Welcome to the EFT program.  As of 9-16-91, your net pay is deposited
    	in account *** in *** Bank.  All of your EFT reimbursements will be
    	deposited to this account.
    
    I'm also glad that the end result has been some possible solutions; my
    intention was not to attack, even though I was pretty upset at the time.
    
    Holly
    
    

    Hi my name is ray desrosiers and i'm in huntsville alabama. i would
    like to know more about this eft program. i travel alot and i have a
    very had time getting my advance on time and my reimbursments in a
    timely manner. as an example i took a trip on 07/14/91 to new england
    and another trip on 08/06/91 to atlanta and another one on 08/25/91 to
    atlanta and i still haven't received my refunds from any of my trips to
    this date. travel letter group tells me that they don't have my last
    voucher from my manager they can not let go of any of the refunds thats
    due to me. will eft help in this matter or do we still have to follow
    the same process by sending it to our managers that is located in
    another state. i drop my corporate credit card because of this problem
    and my credit rating was getting bad by it. the company wants you to
    travel but they sure don't make it easy for you to get your money back
    in a timely manner. we have told our managers about it but they come
    back by saying they are on the road alot and they don't see our
    vouchers until they get back or they misplace it because its in with
    their mai piles and sometimes it gets put aside or trown away by
    accident. we need a better system in the field to unsure that the employees
    can do their travel and not get hurt by it.

    I didn't get any of the reimbursements until my AMEX bill came in (for
    verification of foreign charges) and all the usual signatures had been
    collected on the expense report.
    
    I think EFT just circumvents the secretary bringing you a check...at
    least in our facility.
    
    

    re: Alfred
    My guess is that your first EFT was held up for two weeks due to the
    Fed Reserve Prenoting policy/procedure. This coincides with the "10
    working days mentioned by Sandy in an earlier note.
     
    Regarding your question about when EFT's are made: EFT's are baked
    fresh daily at the FMC's throughout the US, then rushed to AKO between
    5 and 8 pm Eastern time. At AKO they are decrypted and shipped to our
    bank.  By 11pm our bank has them sent them to the Boston Federal
    Reserve. Most banks can then pick them up at 6 am or 11 am from their
    local Federal Reserve connection. What happens once the employee's
    banks have them is a tangle of Federal regulations and bank processing
    procedures. The best is similar to the employee from Palo Alto who gets
    his on the same day, the worst (but still within Federal law) is close
    of business on the following day or 48 hour turnaround. Petty Cash
    would love to advertise 24 hour turnaround, but they can't because
    employee's banks have their own individual sets of procedures and
    schedules that DEC can't control.
     
    General: The notice of deposit e-mailed to employees can't contain
    their bank account number because the Law department has ruled that
    employee bank account numbers are classified "Digital Personal" and
    Corporate Security has a policy that states "All data classifed as
    Digital Personal must be encrypted before it can be networked". Don't
    expect to see this until DEC has a VMSmail/A1 mail encryption tool
    installed and working at all DEC sites.
    

    Thanks Bob... I couldn't have explained it any better.  Bob worked with
    us on this project.  Couple of things I can add is that
    
    o	The Fed realizes that they need to streamline their networking
    systems and be assured that we will take advantage of any and every
    opportunity to decrease the "48 business hour" window.
    
    o	The system of the future will be looking at automating as much as
    we can so that in the future there will be nominal intervention by any
    secretary.  Again, as I had stated before one issue that we will not be
    able to eliminate is the IRS law for receipts over $25.00.  We are
    looking at all kinds of alternatives.
    
    o	In response to Ray Desrosiers...I suspect that you are member of
    U.S. Area (since you mentioned Traveletter).  One big issue we see is
    the time a voucher spends on an approvers desk.  Today, we are not
    planning on offering EFT within Traveletter.  Currently you can opt for
    direct deposit TO THE DCU ONLY.  Many participants take advantage of
    this.  Our reason for not offering EFT is the bulk of the Traveletter
    users need multiple choice for accounts.  Another alternative you may
    want to look at is having your manager approve you for the draft
    program.  That way you can self-reimburse yourself (based on a set
    limit)  I hate to offer that suggestion, since it's an admin nightmare
    for the FMCs and too many individuals really do not need to be on this
    program...  Mark Sexton is currently working a project for training and
    the FMCs have forwarded to him some of our issues.  The really big one
    for us is that we are measured on how fast we can turnaround your
    voucher, which makes no sense to us when it sits on an approver's desk
    for three weeks.
    
    I think that between Bob and myself we can answer most of your
    questions.  I hope it adds some clarity.
    
    Lastly, I believe I will have approval on Holly's suggested wording to
    be added to the EFT Notification.  We are also going to ask each FMC to
    include their FMC name and a contact number should employees have
    questions or issues.  Thanks again for the suggestion.
    
    Sandy

    What does "prenoting" mean?  I can't figure it out from context,
    and it isn't in my dictionary.

    Prenoting is sending a record of zero dollars through the EFT system 
    to be sure that it arrives at the proper destination and that all 
    information is correct. This is to prevent a record with a person's net 
    pay going into never never land.
    
    There are still a few banks that cannot accept EFT deposits. The 
    prenote will fail and the employee will be notified of a problem. 
    
    Linda 

    I have read with interest this conference, because my secretary just
    informed me that she was told by northboro petty cash that if I did
    not sign up for EFT, my normal expense reimbursement checks (which she
    delivers and picks up in two trips per week) would take two weeks to
     process.  This I perceive as a threat.  I average very
    small amounts of mileage, something on the order of $150 a month, and I 
    chose not to participate in EFt for a number of reasons, one of which
    is that I wanted to wait till the "bugs" were worked out.  I'm still
    waiting for that to happen. I can't believe that finance is threatening
    to inflict this on me. Any comments from the EFT noter? 

    I signed up the first time I heard about it.  If you have an MTS mail
    account or forwarding from MTS to you "real" mail system, and a DCU
    account it seems to work very efficiently,
    
    Before I got the MTS forwarding, I would get this bundle of paper form
    the mail room WEEKS after the transfer had occurred.  Now I usually
    get EMail confirmation of the EFT in a day or two.
    
    Don't know about other combos of accounts (bank/mail)
    
    /s/ Jim Williams
    

  Today we were notified that our Petty Cash window will permanently close at
some unspecified time in the near future, and after that time, EFT reimburse-
ment will be mandatory except for "emergencies". This is a large site (about
1200 people). If conventional Petty Cash is going away here, it's probably
going away at lots of other GMA sites too.
  I feel that the site petty cash folks have not properly informed us on the
issues involved with the changeover to EFT. We got some cursory info and were
asked to fill out forms (the ones with the "flying" EFT letters at the top)
right away so that we will be ready in case we need to get reimbursed in the
near future.
  I'm concerned about the long turnaround time for getting advances via EFT,
compared to the old method, but I think we can learn to live with it. I'm
more concerned about not having a petty cash window and the effect this will 
have on certain operations. For example, the "emergency cash advance" pro-
cedure (which not having a petty cash window makes necessary) has a one-day
turnaround time and requires the payee to make a special trip to Maynard.
Of course, proper advance planning can avoid the need to use this emergency
procedure, but I think a lot of travelers are going to end up not getting a
cash advance in time and will have to "borrow" from their own bank accounts to
cover their expenses.

    We got the same notice in MKO this week.  When I get an advance in the
    future and I need to get it from an ATM machine (from my DCU account)
    when it is not convenient for me to get to a Digital facility, you can
    be sure that the $1 charge for using a "foreign" ATM will show up
    prominently on that trip's expense voucher.  I'm willing to "go with
    the flow" (after all, it's stated in writing that this will save
    Digital *millions* of dollars per year, which perhaps we could buy the
    George Washington Bridge with), as long as the new process works
    and is at least as efficient as the old one.
    
    Jon

    Seems like " penny wise and pound foolish" to me. Lots of extra time
    spent by engineers, and lack of a simple way of getting money back.
    
    How will this method save money????
    
    Marc H.

    
    So now instead of a secretary handling a number of petty cash
    transactions at once.  Each of us will be in line at the DCU doing
    at a far higher cost to the company.  It seems that all they figured
    was the savings of closing down petty cash, but didn't factor in the
    cost of employee time dealing with this.
    
    Steve
    

    
    I thought EFT meant Electronic Funds Transfer; Why would anyone have to 
    stand in line at the DCU?????

    
    re .35:
    
    How about to get the traveler's checks I usually accept as my advance?
    

    
    Well, for example, whenever I travel, I have always taken my advance 
    partly in cash and partly in travelers checks which the secretary
    got directly from petty cash.  Now I'll have to spend to go to the
    DCU or a local bank to get the travelers checks.  That is going to 
    cost Digital something for the number of times people will be doing
    that.  I doubt I'll be the only one.
    
    Steve
    

    Re: .37
    
    Correct.....the cost saving is only due to not having Petty Cash .
    No calculation about the increase in time spent by the ones that
    are traveling. 
    
    When are we going to look more than 10 miniutes into the future???
    
    Marc H.

    RE: last few
    
    Please help me to understand what the problem is.
    
    I only travel once a month or so, but when I do, there is never an
    advance or reimbursement for an advance. The process that I use is:
    
    I call the travel agency (we have no secretary) with my travel
    requirements. 
    
    The travel agent makes the reservations, charging air, hotel and car
    against the corporate credit card on my travel profile.
    
    Meals get charged against the same credit card.
    
    The only cash that I spend is on airport parking, which I get
    reimbursed for.
    
    I fill out my expense report, my manager approves it, it goes to the
    FMC, and I  get an E-mail that the funds have been deposited in
    my DCU account.
    
    When the credit card statement comes in, I pay it using the funds
    already in my account.
    
    Works for me.
    
    No standing in line, no waiting.
    
    Kevin

    What about the fee they charge for travellers checks at my bank?  Do
    I have to pay for that out of my own money or should I charge DEC? 
    Patti
    

    Any 'reasonable' charges that a bank may charge you for traveler's
    cheques, Cahier's cheques, or Monies order should be charged to a
    miscellaneous voucher.
    
    I think this will be great, provided they do it right and keep the
    employees informed of changes in petty cash policies. I have very bad
    luck with trying to get forms processed because the policy for such and
    such a thing changed yesterday and was never told.
    The only other glitch is if someone does not get paid. They have to run
    all the way to the Mill?!! Come on now. Why can't they just
    immiediately deposit the approved money into that person's account? Why
    do they have to run to the mill and pick up a paper check and then go
    to their bank and have it deposited.
    
    Scott

    Am I understanding all of this correctly?...  Are they telling me
    that to get any kind of reimbursement at all for anything from a
    dial-in phone bill to a book to travel to who-knows-what-else, I
    must open a bank account and then must apply for some sort of EFT
    process that will allow them to directly deposit reimbursements
    into said account?
    
    Is this the correct interpretation of all of this?  If so, I'm
    astonished that any corporation can force certain methods of
    banking, etc., on employees, in order for the employees to
    obtain reimbursements that are coming to them.  Why can't they
    just write a check?
    
    Of course, if I've misunderstood all of this, never mind.  If I
    haven't, then I'll just have to make sure that I don't do anything
    that requires financial reimbursement.
    
    Chris

Chris,

You've mis-understood.  .40 describes how it works for those of us in the field
who don't have the luxury of a petty cash window or DCU branch within 1,000
miles of us.

You fill out an expense report and if you don't have a DCU account, you wait
for the check to arrive.

Bob

    For God's sake. What a bunch of whiners.
    
    The company does something to streamline operations and you all moan.
    For most of us it'll save us time. There was nothing that annoyed me
    more than applying for an advance and being forced to accept travellers
    cheques. I then walked straight down to ther DCU, WAITED IN LINE,
    scribbled on all the travellers cheques and deposited them directly
    into my account.
    
    When one travels for the company all you need is a credit card and a
    few $s in your wallet. The only issue I can see with the new policy is
    that travellers cheques are useful for international travel to pick up
    a small amount of local currency in the destination country. But even
    here I can't see the issue. Most facilities that have petty cash also
    have a DCU branch. Get your travellers cheques there. 
    
    Also for those that complain they'll have to go to bank to get cash let
    me ask you. Where do you already get your personal money from?
    
    Dave 

    I think the EFT system is great.  It saves me paperwork and the hassle
    of an extra trip to the DCU to deposit the check from petty cash.
    
    I believe the system will deposit your petty cash amounts to wherever
    Digital does your paycheck direct deposit.  It doesn't have to be to
    the DCU.

    Not all employee travellers can use credit cards for their purchases
    for various reasons [several previous]. Try explaining to a waiter that
    does not understand your native language that you want to split a
    dinner bill over four credit cards.
    
    Not all businesses and restaurants accept American Express. You do not
    always have the option of finding same. 
    
    Not all employees have DCU accounts. Getting travellers checks is an
    extra amount of time, compared with just walking up and pressing nine
    buttons on an automatic teller for cash any time of the day [.44].
    Then, finding such a machine is still difficult in some American
    cities, much less outside the U.S, and even then presumes you have
    reasonable mobility.
    
    People who are concerned about this change should not be dismissed as
    whiners--they simply have had different travel experiences and/or
    requirements. This change will be a burden for them and it will not
    improve their productivity. (I sympathise with the additional process
    for reimbursement for field employees. I guess I can say that at least
    I've been fortunate to have a petty cash window open four hours a week
    at our site (DSG). By the way--there is no DCU branch here.)
    
    I am personally more concerned with the turnaround time for vouchers.
    If there is a mistake--or even a question of a mistake--it takes
    another interoffice mail cycle to resolve, as opposed to an alert
    employee or secretary handling it immediately.
    
    I picked up an "information packet" today at the DSG front  allegedly
    authored by Ron Aronson, Project Manager, Eastern Mass, FMC. Among the
    interesting statements in this document:
    
    - 2-MAR-1992 is the date for consolidation of all U.S. Disbursement
      sites. This leaves five Central Disbursements Processing Units in
      each of the five Financial Management Centers. (For GMA, it is in
      MLO21-3.)
    
    - EFT transactions will be in your account 48 hours from the date 
      the voucher is processed; you will be notified upon processing; and
      the funds will be available 48 hours of notification.
    
      These are called out separately so I wonder what the lag time really
      is between processing and notification. Presumably--because the
      document mentions taking advantage of electronic communications--this
      notification is via some form of electronic mail.
    
      There is also lag time for mailing and backlog involved in this
      process. Now, add on the possibility for error. ("All vouchers with
      insufficient data will be returned by interoffice mail.") I also
      vaugely wonder about the security of interoffice mail.
    
    - Checks will still be available, but you are strongly encouraged to go
      to EFT, and will be sent back via interoffice mail.
    
    - The emergency procedure for the GMA is as follows:
    
      Criteria: emergency payroll advance (no paycheck), emergency/non-voluntary
      employee termination, or business/relocation advance IF DEPARTURE IS 
      WITHIN 24 HOURS OF SUBMITTING THE VOUCHER. (Caps mine for clarity.)
    
      Requesting: Send mail to <email address> from APPROVER'S account
      with lots of appropriate information; or send facsimilie of approved
      voucher to <phone number> with "ATTENTION: CPU".
    
      Getting the funds: DISTRIBUTED IN CHECK ONLY! (caps mine for amusement.)
      Request recieved before noon: pick up at ML021-3/G10 between 2:30 and
      3:00 that day. Request recieved after noon: pick up between 9:00 and
      9:30 the next day. 
    
    - Hotline phone numbers are given for both regular and emergency
      procedures.
    
    - Treavellers Checks ("...eliminated...as we have traditionally known
      them.") are dismissed early and then never mentioned. My secretary 
      believes that a bank fee is reimbursible, however. Then again, and I
      quote, "Employees with ATM cards will be able to access these funds
      wherever or whenever they need to." 
    
    As of this date, I think this communication of this change stinks on
    ice. By mouthing no less than six "quality" catch-phrases, Employee
    Disbursements seems to have forgotten the customer. Ron Aronson is
    coming to our site on 29-FEB-1992 for a one-hour Q&A session, however.
    Perhaps he can explain "the electronic future" (quote) to us.

    .45 reminded me about the EFT items:
    
    - You must already be enrolled in payroll direct deposit to be involved
      in EFT for disbursements.
    
    - It does deposit into the same account you use for your payroll deposit.
    
    - "EFT can expedite the turnaround of all your Employee Expense 
       reimbursements."  (quote from the flyer)
    
    - "Notification will be sent to you electronically the DAY AFTER the 
       transaction is processed." (another quote, caps mine, and yes, this
       contradicts earlier statements in the flyer that I summarized in .46)

    I think Digital has discovered a great way to cut back on expenses.  If
    they make the process of reimbursement sufficiently painful, people
    will eventually stop asking them for money.  ;-)
    

    Will all you whiners quit moaning?  This new system is great and
    provides yet another example of how Finance is applying Reengineering
    -- the latest buzzword in business practices.
    
    The EFT system works great for me.  No more having checks sit around in
    my wallet for days before I think to deposit them.
    
    Also, it's been years since I asked for a travel advance.  Have AMEX
    will travel!
    
    Some folks get creative in saving the company a bundle of money and all
    we hear are complaints.  Sheesh!
    
    -Ken

    As I said in an earlier note, I like the system.  It works well for me.
    
    So how about changing the focus of the complaints from hypothetical to
    personal.  Please describe the problem that YOU PERSONALLY have with
    the system.  How does it make YOUR life more difficult?  Not how it
    might cause extra work for somebody else, but how does it cause extra
    work for you?
    
    Then those of us who like the system can try to suggest ways to make
    the system work for you and reduce the hassle you seem to have with it. 
    I don't guarantee this will work.  There is undoubtedly somebody,
    perhaps many, for whom the system will not work well.  But so far in
    this topic, I have seen little indication that the EFT system is worse,
    for most employees, than the old petty cash system.

    My experience with EFT has been very positive, no problems to date
    except..... 
    I don't have an All-In-1 account and didn't know that the electronic
    receipt is sent via All-In-1. Result; no receipt. We have to get the
    control number from the receipt to complete the paper trail for audit.
    It's also nice to know the amount and time of the deposit.
    
    If you don't have All-In-1 contact your facility MTS manager and ask to
    have this mail forwarded to your VaxMail account. The MTS manager is
    listed in the DEC phone book departmental listing under Message
    Transport Service.
    
    If you have the right tools (ATM card,credit cards) this is a great
    plan.
    I can understand folks that work in the GMA wanting to go back to the
    old days. It was nice to get cash on short notice, just walk down the
    hall and you have lunch money. The EFT system cuts out a lot of human
    hours which equals money but does lose a measure of convenience for
    folks in the plants. For field people this should be a clear win.
    

    Hmmm.  This does appear to have been forwarded, but I didn't arrange
    the forwarding.  Is the forwarding automatic or does it take manual
    intervention?  How did I get mine without contacting my "facility MTS
    manager"?  There doesn't appear to have been any significant delay.
    
    If the system does take manual intervention to get these forwarded,
    then I agree there is a problem.
    
    
From:	MODELA::MODELA::MRGATE::"MRGATE::VIXEN::PCDATA"  8-JAN-1992 17:44:34.58
To:	SSDEVO::EGGERS
CC:	
Subj:	Employee Disbursements expense transaction notification

From:	NAME: PCDATA <PCDATA@VIXEN@MRGATE@MODELA@CXO>
To:	THOMAS EGGERS@CXO

This notification is to confirm that your                                       
Employee Expense transaction has been processed.                                
Badge Number    : xxxxxx                                                        
Control Number  : yyyyyy                                                        
Payment amount  :   $322.75                                                     
Process date    : 01/08/92                                                      
Processing site : CXO                                                           

    RE .-1
    
    I believe the way it works is as follows.
    
    If you don't have an ALL-IN-1 mailbox but you do have a VMSMAIL address
    registered in ELF then whoever automatically puts the MTS database
    togeher forwards your mail to your VMS mail account.
    
    Basically the mail has to get delivered somewhere and it goes to a
    printer if there is no ALL-IN-1 account or VMSMAIL account. So for all
    employees they either put it to:
    
    	1, Their ALL-IN-1 account
    	2, Their MAIL-11 account (ie VMSMAIL etc)
    	3, The printer
    
    It'll only go to 3 if you don't have 1 or 2. For those of you that have
    1) and 2) it'll go to 1). You'll have do do something manually if you
    want your ALL-IN-1 mail forwarded to your VMSMAIL account.
    
    Dave

    [.50] An excellent suggestion. I believe that I have stated my concerns
    accurately in .46 along with the information I have received. but I
    will summarize my non-trivial issues here:
    
    - Travellers checks are now my responsibility to obtain--in my case
      these cannot be obtained on-site.
    
    - I will need to photocopy vouchers and receipts against the
      possibility of loss via interoffice mail.
    
    - The information to date is ambiguous and contradictory as to when
      reimbursement is guaranteed by, leading to uncertainty as to when
      my funds actually are available.
    
    - Should there be an error or question regarding a given voucher,
      the cycle time for resolution increases.

    Re: .54
    
	>> Travellers checks are now my responsibility to obtain--in my case
	>> these cannot be obtained on-site.
    
    I presume travellers checks were available from petty cash?  If so, and
    you rely on them, then that would be a negative.  Since I don't use the
    things and use a credit card instead, it doesn't cause me any problems. 
    Out of curiosity, how many $s do you carry that you feel obliged to use
    travellers checks?  Would a credit card reduce the amount of cash to
    that which you are willing to carry in legal tender?
    
	>> I will need to photocopy vouchers and receipts against the
	>> possibility of loss via interoffice mail.
    
    I make copies anyway, just in case petty cash loses something.
    
	>> The information to date is ambiguous and contradictory as to when
	>> reimbursement is guaranteed by, leading to uncertainty as to when
	>> my funds actually are available.
    
    Hmmm, yes.  Petty cash has its own uncertainties, and I guess EFT adds
    one extra day's worth.  
    
    	>> Should there be an error or question regarding a given voucher,
	>> the cycle time for resolution increases.
    
    Unarguable.  How often does this happen?  Come to think of it, when
    I was travelling a lot, it was fairly regular.

    I guess the only problem I have with the NO CASH AT THE WINDOW system
    is for interplant travel, which I do a lot of.  I normally do not carry
    much cash, therefore, if I do a significant amount of interplant
    travel, I am short of cash at the end of the week; paying for
    unexpected gasoline and tolls.  Since I do not have a DCU account nor
    use ATMs, I have to make an unplanned trip to the bank to cash a check. 
    
    Not a big deal, but an aggravation.  Considering the amount of NRE
    spent on overlapping projects, the sickening number of people "retired
    in place", the increasing number of high salaried VP's whose groups are
    NOT improving their revenue/expenses ratio, I consider this yet another
    short sighted piece of lip service to cost cutting.
    
    Of course, that's just my opinion.
    
    Dave
    

    So why not carry a bit more cash?  Or use ATMs?  They work for me
    worldwide.

    The system changed, I think for the better for many people and
    certainly for me.  But whenever a system changes some adjustments are
    necessary, and if some minor personal adjustments are in order for some
    people, then I think that is OK.

    We have been asked in CXO to combine several small expense reports into
    one larger one in order to cut down on the costs of processing them.  I
    turn in telephone charges every other month rather than each month.  It
    does cost me some amount of interest, but not enough for me to object,
    given the advantage to me of Digital paying the home-terminal line
    charges.

    I infer from .-1, perhaps incorrectly, that more than one expense
    report for interplant mileage is being submitted every week in order to
    keep the maximum owed-by-Digital amounts low.  I think it should be
    possible to work up to one or two weeks mileage expenses without
    breaking the wallet.  It would mean carrying a bit more cash around. Is
    that viewed as a security problem or a cash-flow problem?
    
    I do believe that other people experience real problems that I don't
    see.  I still wonder how many of those are minor and easily adjusted
    for and how many cause people real inconvenience.  Is the gain to many
    employees outweighed by the inconvenience to the rest?  I don't know.

>
>    Not all employee travellers can use credit cards for their purchases
>    for various reasons [several previous]. Try explaining to a waiter that
>    does not understand your native language that you want to split a
>    dinner bill over four credit cards.
>
      At the begining of the meal each person takes out their credit card and
      places it on the table while ordering. There is no need for verbal
      exchange. This is just a tip. It has never failed for me.

      The bit which I find distressing about this complete string of notes is
      the resistance to using the technology on which our incomes depends.  If
      we do not use this technology, who will?

    RE: .58
    
      >The bit which I find distressing about this complete string of notes is
      >the resistance to using the technology on which our incomes depends.  If
      >we do not use this technology, who will?
    
    Ah, the "We built it.  It's good.  Why aren't people snapping it up?"
    syndrome.  Maybe it's not what the customers [we] want.  
    
    I don't consider myself to be a Luddite.  My payroll check gets
    deposited by EFT in a certain bank.  Reimbursement checks go in a
    different bank.  If I can only EFT to one bank, then I will not use
    this system for reimbursements.  
    
    When I put in for reimbursement of vanpool expenses every month, the
    form has to go from MKO to the Commuter Transportation Dept. in NRO for
    approval.  That's about three weeks round trip via inter-office mail. 
    Now I will have to add another three, or possibly four weeks to get a
    check.  Then it's U. S. mail for another week or so to the bank. 
    Considering that some of these expenses are incurred early in the
    month, this means DEC gets to live on my money for about ten weeks.  

    Re: .49
    
    I have a life...thank you. This change is a mistake , period.
    
    Marc H.

    RE: .45
    
    >> I believe the system will deposit your petty cash amounts to wherever
    >> Digital does your paycheck direct deposit.  It doesn't have to be to
    >> the DCU.
    
    Geez, this wasn't the way it was explained to me.  I was told you MUST
    have a DCU account or you can't take advantage of it.  I have both a
    DCU checking account and one at a bank, so it wasn't that big of a
    deal.  However, since there is no DCU office with 200 miles of here it
    would be more convenient for me to have it deposited in the bank.
    
    Is there anyone out there who has their deposits put into a bank
    account vs. DCU?
    
    Also, throughout this note there have been various arguments raised,
    some of them very valid, about the inconvenience that this will be
    creating.  I don't disagree, but for me the old way was neither quick
    nor painless.
    
    There is no petty cash out here nor has there ever been one close by. 
    Most of the people carry a company credit card, as do I.  We also get
    reimbursed via Traveletter so, frequently but not always, by Friday of
    any given week you pay yourself back for the expenses incurred during
    that week.  In my case, my Traveletter limit is $500 so anything over
    that amount has to be reimbused via an expense check (or the new EFT).
    
    In early December, I made several long trips (over a two week period)
    that resulted in $1,600 in expenses charged to my AMEX.  I was able to
    write Traveletters for $1,000 but that still left $600 due to me.  I
    submitted these sometime before Christmas.  Around the last week in
    December, I got the American Express bill which was due the last week
    in January.
    
    January came and went and I still had not received any reimbursement. 
    I had no idea why these took this long but I ended up paying for the
    bill myself and finally was reimbursed just two weeks ago.  In this
    case,  I was able to do it but coming up with $600 just like that isn't
    always easy to do.  It could have just as easily been $1,000 or more.
    
    Shortly after this, I enrolled in the EFT program.  I don't know if
    this will help or not but I doubt it will make things worse.  If EFT
    will help shorten the reimbursement cycle then I'm all in favor of it.
    
    Larry
                 

>    that week.  In my case, my Traveletter limit is $500 so anything over

>    In early December, I made several long trips (over a two week period)
>    that resulted in $1,600 in expenses charged to my AMEX.  I was able to
>    write Traveletters for $1,000 but that still left $600 due to me.  I

	This ouught to be justification enough to have your Traveletter
limit raised.......I got mine raised to $1200 and haven't needed a
reimbursement since, although one week my expenses cam to $1190-something.

Frank

    
    Re: the epithets
    
    Those of you so quick to call others "whiners" ought to take the
    trouble to read a bit closer before you hand out the labels.
    
    Some of us "whiners" are questioning whether it WILL save Digital
    money.  I'd bet that any cost/benefit analysis was done only against
    petty cash expenses.  It's very possible that other costs involved with
    this process  were unknown or outright ignored because it would take
    too much effort to evaluate them.  This could well be a case where one
    department makes their bottom line look good while making changes that
    raise the bottom line by a much higher collective amount for a number
    of other departments.  Don't be so sure that streamlining one process
    doesn't seriously impede another.
    
    If all the right things were done and the change does, in fact, reduce
    overall expenses then I've no complaint, but my own experience leaves
    me doubting that very much.
    
    Steve
    

    I wish the memo that went out about this thing was clearer.  I have my
    payroll direct deposited into one bank, and a small payroll deduction
    going into a DCU savings account.  I would like to have the EFTs done
    to my DCU account, but the way the memo reads, the EFT must be done to
    "your parimary bank where you paycheck is deposited".  If this is
    really a restriction, then I'm sorry but it won't work for me.
    
    Was there a number on that memo where one could call to get questions
    answered and/or sign up for EFT, *assuming* that the EFTs could (in my
    case) be done with DCU instead of my "primary bank"?
    
    Jon

 
>    Is there anyone out there who has their deposits put into a bank
>    account vs. DCU?
  
My EFT reimbursements go to the same place as my salary, which
is a Baybank account.   So it looks as though there's no requirement
for a DCU account.

I vaguely recall (but am not certain, since I didn't particularly
care anyway) that I couldn't choose to have EFT reimbursement go to
a bank account that was different to my salary account.

re: 1580.55              Petty Cash EFT Reimbursement                  55 of 57
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        >> Travellers checks are now my responsibility to obtain--in my case
>        >> these cannot be obtained on-site.
>    
>    I presume travellers checks were available from petty cash?  If so, and

Yes. In my case, Petty Cash made it mandatory to take "cash" in the form
or travellers checks, often in $20 denominations. Real cash was limited
to around $200 (or less).

With EFT now in charge; this one aspect of PC won't be missed by me. Several
years ago, I thad to travel to France on Corporate Business, and these 
"(uninformed)" people in Ppetty cashe "gave me" about $400 in travelles
checks (payable in dollars, or course). It was a real nuisance to get these
things cashed.

The next time, I simply cashed all the TC in advance, and sent it as an
advance payment to my Credit Card Company.

Of course, though, EFT is only for those who choose to have a direct 
deposit. There are those who have objections to "the corporation" mucking
around with their personal accounts.

-Just my opinion

Bob

    Regarding my earlier reply (and the reply to it), I forget the
    reply number:
    
    I believe that the system is not just for the field, but for
    everyone.  Especially since our organization has gotten a memo
    from our management "encouraging" us to sign up.
    
    I guess I'm just one of those old-fashioned, stick-in-the-mud
    types who still doesn't have direct deposit and doesn't, in
    general, want to give anyone else the authority to initiate
    electronic transactions with my bank accounts, including
    reimbursements for rarely-done stuff like dial-in phone bills
    or books.
    
    So call me an old-fashioned whiner.  :-)
    
    What's the big deal with writing an occasional check, or giving
    the recipient a choice to get a check or EFT?  I don't see where
    there's that much of a savings in typing a check as opposed to
    typing the same numbers into an EFT transaction form.
    
    We're not talking about a big deal here, in any event.  If the
    company makes EFT the only allowed form of reimbursement, then I'll
    just avoid the whole reimbursement "scene".
    
    Chris

    Re: .66 (Bob Early)
    
    >> Of course, though, EFT is only for those who choose to have a direct 
    >> deposit. There are those who have objections to "the corporation"
    >> mucking around with their personal accounts.
    
    If "the corporation" could read accounts, or withdraw from them, then I
    would not be using the direct deposit system either.  In fact I didn't
    use it for the first decade or so after direct deposit started, but
    then one day I found this 10-year-old undeposited paycheck and decided
    the time had come.  (DEC did issue me a new one, BTW, after a
    considerable amount of consternation about what account to charge it
    to.)  Now I'm perfectly willing for anybody who wants to make deposits
    into my account to go ahead and do so.  The more the merrier.
    
    Could you please be a bit more specific on the negative aspects of "the
    corporation mucking around with personnal accounts"?

EFT?

Oh boy, when my SOB (significant other body) found out about Digital's latest 
way to aggravate non-digital humans, the roof was raised!

Since my SOB and I share a joint account, this new EFT thingie sounded 
ominous (especially since we had just figured out the smoothest way to 
handel our skimpy finances).

My main concern with EFT was the fact that the money HAD to go into the 
account where my direct deposit went (i.e., the {gasp} JOINT account). I love 
my SOB and all that but it would be Kinda like putting a child in charge of
the candy store (Ohhhh!  Where'd this extra grand come from?!?)  This would
never do. 

What I found out from petty cash is as follows:

When all the petty cash offices go away (approximately 4 months from this 
date) EFT will then allow users of EFT to have the money deposited into the 
accounts of their choice.

So I joined.

Peter

    Re: .69
    
    >> When all the petty cash offices go away (approximately 4 months from
    >> this  date) EFT will then allow users of EFT to have the money
    >> deposited into the  accounts of their choice.
    
    That change sounds like it will make the system better for many people.
    I wonder why that change is coincident with the petty cash offices
    going away?

TOM, RE:1580.55

I've noticed a couple of items in your and others notes that I can help
clairify.  

1.  Photocopying vouchers.  You are right to say keep a copy of the voucher
    itself, the carbon copy should be enough, but don't copy the individual
    receipts.  If a voucher should get lost a replacement can be processed
    without receipts as long as it has an exception signature.  The exception
    signer would be your approvers approver.

2.  Travelers checks.  If your manager approves your buying travelers checks
    you can be reimbursed by including the fee in the miscellaneous column
    of the applicable weekly expense report.

Someone else asked if anyone had experience with deposits going to banks other
than DCU.  I have.  Basically it makes no difference which bank you use.  The
Fed's Automated Clearing House provides the same service to all banks.  The
only difference would be how fast a bank posts their transactions.

Larry

    Re: .55 [EGGERS] and .58 [BINGER] and .66 [EARLY] and .71 [ORDWAY]
    
    Yes, travelers checks were available from petty cash. I have already stated
    why a credit card is unacceptable or inconvenient. I have been on extended
    trips outside the U.S. and have exhausted anywhere from $250 to $500 in
    travelers checks for day-to-day expenses. 

    To .58 specifically: an interesting idea, despite your implied
    characterization of me as a Luddite. I still think it will cause some
    confusion or outright refusal--there are many restaurants I have eaten at
    where separate cards are refused  because of a strict policy of `no
    separate checks'. (Yes, we can choose not to eat there but when the
    majority of more senior people around you have chosen the venue and *have*
    cash, this becomes difficult.)

    To .66 specifically: $20 denominations!! Eccch. That would be difficult. I
    was fortunate enough to have $50 checks.

    To .71 specifically: Now my *manager* has to approve me buying travellers 
    checks? This wasn't stated in the information package, either.
    
    More Re: .55 and .57 [EGGERS]

    I assume you make photocopies of receipts and vouchers because you need to
    mail your vouchers somewhere. Since I have the convenience of a petty cash
    office on site (or nearby], once I have turned in the voucher, I have my
    check and I don't need the receipts any longer. Precautionary photocopying
    is an additional step, lowering my productivity.

    Ambiguity of information is still my biggest gripe. Not stating clearly and
    unambiguously when I can expect my funds in my account is unacceptable.
    Added cycle time in case of a perceived or real error is also a
    consideration, leading to potential cash flow problems. (As many have
    already commented on.) 

    Finally, which ATM card do you use that works worldwide, *without* interest
    charges? What is the transaction cost? 


    Re: .63 [MACDONALD]

    Thank you. Well said. While all of my motives are not as altruistic as you
    describe, I object to being labeled as a whiner or a Luddite because I
    have legitimate concerns that are not being addressed.

    Re: .64 [ARNOLD]

    The phone number on the EFT enrollment form I have a copy of is DTN 
    223.7551. This is probably an MLO number. The text of the enrollment form
    clearly states that "all your transactions will be deposited into your
    current account used by Payroll for deposit of your Net Pay."
    

    What I would like to know is why does Digital think it can refuse to
    pay its debts in legal tender?
    
    
    				-- edp

    - when I travelled abroad, I would cash checks at American Express
    offices... worked great for me!
    
    - I thought it was wise to copy expense forms based on IRS
    requirements...
    
    pH

    (Boy it's been years since I've put a reply in here!)
    
    RE: .64, .66
    There seem to be several of us that use our DCU accounts in similar
    manners. What others and myself are trying to say about our DCU
    accounts has nothing to  do with a requirement to have one.

    We have DCU Savings accounts.

    We have our pay deposited into a non-DCU checking account.

    We use our DCU savings accounts to transact our Digital business.

    We use our non-DCU checking account to transact our personal business.

    We do not want/like to mix the two different business transactions
    together.

    The way EFT is currently set up you can NOT have deposits for Digital 
    reimbursement made to your DCU Savings account, if you have your pay
    deposited  in a bank checking account somewhere.

    RE: .69...if they can do the transfer when the PC office goes away,
    why wait?
    
    If it were possible to have EFT deposits to my DCU savings, and not
    change  where my pay is currently deposited, I'd sign up for it in a
    minute. I'm not signing up 'till I see a form that let's me do it.
    Good luck.

    So for now we have to do some inter-office mailing and wait in lines at
    the DCU. That may or may not cost Digital more...in my case I think
    it's probably going save because I have to wait in line now for my
    check then go to the DCU to deposit it. With this new system , I'll get
    the check in the mail and then go to the DCU to deposit it. One less
    line to wait in and now I don't have to  figure out when the petty cash
    window is open!
    
    Hopefully they will not force us to use EFT to do these transfers into
    our personal accounts.

    Now if we were really into a paperless system...

    We should be able to fill out the appropriate form on-line, have it
    sent electronically to the approver, have them approve it with an
    electronic  signature, have it forwarded electronically to the "petty
    cash" people, have them make electronic funds transfer to the place you
    want, then notify you electronically that it's been done. (Could
    probably be done in DCL!)


    /tb/
    

    Could someone please explain to me why there are people in this topic
    who are trying to convince other people that they are wrong because
    they don't LIKE something?  Do the former know more about the latter's
    lives than they, themselves do?  Are there some kind of points awarded
    for getting them to see some kind of universal truth that they're
    obviously too dense to comprehend?  Will the folks who are being
    inconvenienced by the new system suddenly be happy if it's explained
    to them enough times?
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    Re: .-1

    Note .-1 appears to be asking some X to explain some Y's opinion. I
    don't think that is likely to happen.  As for myself,  I asked if
    people adverse to the new system could explain why it was a problem. 
    Some of the explanations are understandable to me and others aren't. I
    have never said anybody was "wrong", nor have I implied it, although it
    is always possible somebody may have inferred it.

    It may very well be that some of the folks who feel they are
    inconvenienced by the new system may suddenly become happy if another
    noter suggests some personal change that eliminates the inconvenience.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, nor will I be surprised to
    find that not everyone can be made happy.

    Re .73:
    
>    What I would like to know is why does Digital think it can refuse to
>    pay its debts in legal tender?
    
    Actually, if the concern here is about EFTs, then I believe that an EFT
    is closer to being "legal tender" than a check.  A check acts as a
    "promise to pay", while EFTs involve the transfer of "electronic cash".
    
    Cash, check, and EFT are all accepted and approved mechanisms for
    transfer of funds, although only cash (and perhaps EFT) can be
    classified as legal [electronic] tender.  When a check clears, your
    bank gets its money from Digital's bank via an EFT.
    
    Lloyd

    Re : all
    
    I am a bit surprised (but maybe I missed the point) that nobody
    noticed that Digital is a provider of new solutions, new technologies
    and a leader on the EDI market : How can we "Sell what we are "
    if we refuse to use what we sell
    
    BTW, I've been with Digital in France for 9 nine years now; I've
    travelled a lot, all around Europe and 6 or 7 times to the US and
    I've never had to complain about EFT : Maybe because I've never
    known any other form of reimbursement : EFT is the rule, that's all
    and it's ok for me : I don't need to bring (or send) a check to the 
    bank ; Once my expense sheet has been approved, I get an ALL-IN-1 mail
    from the accounting department (within 5 days) informing me that the
    money will be on my bank account within 5 days, which means that most
    of the time the money is back on my account before I've actually
    "spent" it since I pay 95% of my expenses with a VISA card
    
    Philippe_who_is_happy_with_EFT (maybe you'd already understood) :-)

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    Yeah, but France is a little further along in EFT than 99% of countries

    >Yeah, but France is a little further along in EFT than 99% of countries
    
    Well it is behind Holland. 

    First in the UK and then in Holland I have been paid directly into my
    bank account since 1963. (Pay cheques are illegal in the UK.)

    In Holland all bills arrive with a transfer slip, I add my account
    number, the amount and sign it. Then I can drop in into any branch of
    my bank.

    My bank card permits me to work ATMs, draw cash at any branch on my PIN
    code. I can also pay for things in shops and filling stations with it
    too. I can also directly draw cash in some other countries, France
    being one of them. In this case I get a very good exchange rate.

    Jamie.

    
    I layed out $75 of my own money.
    I turned in an expense voucher.
    Through the miracle of electronic transfer, 
    it took almost a week to get it back, instead of a day.
    Never again.
    
    Mark
    
    

    We sell software solutions that "fit the way you do business, not force
    you to change the way you do your business in order to meet the
    requirements of the software".  The same thing should apply here. As
    another reply mentioned, I want to *continue* to keep my DCU account
    (where only a small percentage is taken out into a savings) from my
    regular bank account (where direct deposit is done).
    
    When this system advances to the point of being able to allow me to
    specify WHICH bank I want the EFTs done to, then I will sign up for it. 
    I don't understand why (as another response pointed out) that this
    capability will only be in place after all the Petty Cash folks are
    gone.  Looks like for me, I'm going to have to wait for V2.0 of the
    product/service before I'm ready to trust it.  Funny, can I be berated
    for taking the same attitude as many of our customers?
    
    Jon

>    We should be able to fill out the appropriate form on-line, have it
>    sent electronically to the approver, have them approve it with an
>    electronic  signature, have it forwarded electronically to the "petty
>    cash" people, have them make electronic funds transfer to the place you
>    want, then notify you electronically that it's been done. (Could
>    probably be done in DCL!)

	This system is available here in the Central States Region....is it
not available in GMA?!??   

	The drawback to this system is that to satisfy IRS requirements,
the original receipts still have to get sent along.  Many managers 
are uncomfortable approving vouchers without receipts or do not like
the idea of vouchers and receipts being separated, so don't use it.

	However, we can still use the system to enter expenses online,
have the system do the addition, and then print our completed voucher out 
on a Postscript printer.

Frank

>>    RE: .69...if they can do the transfer when the PC office goes away,
>>    why wait?

Beats the H%&& out of me.  Your arguments were the ones I used when I talked 
to my manager about this.  However, since I and my SOB are fully aware of 
what is going on, we can cope until EFT offers a more rounded approach to 
deposits.

I submitted my first milage voucher under the new system.  I submitted it on 
a Friday, the secretary brought it to the Mill on Monday a.m. and I received a 
mail message from EFT on Monday p.m. with all appropriate information.  I was 
impressed.

Peter

The point is, at least with me, that I spend CASH for gasoline and tolls and
I would like to be re-imbursed with CASH.

Don't rail on about using what we sell, we are successful ONLY when we pay
attention to what our CUSTOMERS want and give that to them; it does not matter 
what the technology is.  In this case, I am the customer and what I want is to 
be reimbursed in CASH for the CASH I spent in supporting Digital's business.

Believe it or not, Corporate Finance DOES NOT know what is best for this 
customer.

Of course, just my opinion.

Dave

    To cover the cash flow problem we are given a float. This is the amount
    of money that you are reckoned to spend it the time it takes to process
    a expense claim. Thus you have the cash already. Could this not be
    implemented in the USA?

    Jamie.

    Re: .86
    
    Your are correct.....I am the customer, and I don't want the ~new~
    system. The old way worked.
    
    Marc H.

    RE: .79  by EVOAI2::COCONNIER "Let's be what we sell"

    >Re : all
    
    >I am a bit surprised (but maybe I missed the point) that nobody
    >noticed that Digital is a provider of new solutions, new technologies
    >and a leader on the EDI market : How can we "Sell what we are "
    >if we refuse to use what we sell
    
    I think it's been mentioned.  How can we expect customers to buy what
    we sell if even our own people don't want to "buy" it?
    
    We may be a captive market, but the rest of the world is free to
    embrace or reject techology as it pleases.  I don't think anybody here
    is saying that EFTs are a bad idea, just that this implementation is
    not satisfactory at the user level.  It's not the first time that
    Digital had what it thought was a great idea without bothering to
    adequately consider the end user.
    

     R.E:       <<< Note 1580.89 by CFSCTC::AHERN "Dennis the Menace" >>>

    
    >We may be a captive market, but the rest of the world is free to
    >embrace or reject techology as it pleases.  I don't think anybody here
    >is saying that EFTs are a bad idea, just that this implementation is
    >not satisfactory at the user level.  It's not the first time that
    >Digital had what it thought was a great idea without bothering to
    >adequately consider the end user.
    
    I think this is fundamental to the problems we face with our internal 
    systems. I have seen systems implemented without any customer input,
    acceptance period or sign off. You get lumped with what's implemented.
    
    I have seen EFT work. But not here. It takes me extra work when I'm
    sweating on a payment, receive the EM saying its been paid, only to 
    turn up at the bank and be told "it hasnt gone in yet, try tommorrow".
    A little thought on how to satisfy the customer may have improved this
    a lot. The problem is that "the customer" is the finance person
    demanding savings in money handling and not me. This has to change.
    
    John
    
    
    
    
    

    As I mentioned in a reply several back, Ron Aronson, EMFMC Project Manager,
    came to DSG2 to discuss the new disbursements program on 28 February. The
    following is a set of notes which I took that discuss the various issues
    I've raised and a few others that happen to be mentioned in this topic.

    I qualify this by saying that this probably only applies to Eastern Mass
    and/or the Greater Maynard Area. EMFMC is "leading a joint effort": across
    the U.S., so actual procedures and contact names may be different.

                                     ----

    DELIVERY VIA INTEROFFICE MAIL: It really won't be interoffice mail that is
    used. Instead, a special EMFMC drop-off point at each site. The regular
    Digital mail van will carry the combined drop-offs directly to MLO21 for
    processing, and not to Northboro, as is done with all other interoffice
    mail. Returned vouchers and checks will come back using the same system.
    They are trying to keep this a separate closed delivery loop. 

    ELECTRONIC ADVANCES: Ron also mentioned that you can ask for advances via
    facsimile or electronic mail (from the approvers account only) and this
    would eliminate the time for the special delivery  system. This is slightly
    different from the emergency procedure: the emergency procedure is set up
    when you need your cash in less than an EFT processing time. Expense
    vouchers cannot be processed this way, however, for obvious reasons--they
    need the receipts.

    PROCESSING TIME: The Central Disbursements Processing Unit (CDPU) is biased
    towards processing advances as quickly as possible. He also mentioned that
    EFTs to DCU accounts have been running almost always within one working day
    and it is longer with other banks. The EFT time is 2 working days from
    processing--you are notified via MTS Mail. 

    ERRORS ON VOUCHERS: He acknowledged that there is a problem if vouchers are
    returned. He said that the hotline number was set up for this purpose to
    resolve any misunderstandings. However, they will not call  individuals up
    to quickly resolve small mistakes--like you could do at a real window.
    (Example: forgetting the cost center or project number).

    BANK ACCOUNT USED FOR EFT: Ron specifically said that EMFMC was aware of the
    problem with using your Net Pay account (if you have one) for advances.
    While they do not have this yet, the know that it is an important part of
    the program and they will definitely have a solution in "July". (That's
    actually the goal. It might be a little later, no later than Q1.) Right now,
    you still have to use your Net Pay account. Those who do not have their pay
    deposited electronically can still get checks. (They are sent back via the
    special delivery procedure.) However he also said, "Checks are on their way
    out." He admitted that he does not have an answer for the assumed to be very
    small percentage of employees that will not accept an EFT.

    CUSTOMER INPUT: The procedure has been field tested, apparently in the PKO
    complex, and several changes have been made to the system, including the
    special delivery procedure and the "two account" procedure. He also said
    that he would be happy to answer any questions and provided his electronic
    mail addresses (both MTS and VAX MAIL!)

    TRAVELERS CHECKS: Not much sympathy here. The usual pitch was made for using
    a corporate credit card but in the same breath he acknowledged that not
    every place takes American Express (much less Diners). They are exploring
    various options so that the Amex corporate card can be used in their
    automatic teller machines to a centralized account. If you think you need an
    advance you can take it out against the card or buy travelers checks on your
    own. Because Petty Cash policy is biased towards empowering your approver
    with authorizing reasonable expenses, they can't mandate that fees or
    interest can be expensed. "If your boss approves it, we won't kick it back."
    One last item, you can pay off any remaining balance on your voucher with
    signed travelers checks.

    ODD DETAILS ON PROCESSING: The exception process is still in place if you
    need to advances in a row--your approver's approver must authorize it
    (electronically, this means that it must be from the approver's approver's
    account.) If you are trying to process a voucher and your next advance at
    the same time, clip them together to make sure they are not separated and
    they will be processed in sequence.

    EMERGENCY PROCEDURE: Their goals are to make such a procedure available,
    then limit the window hours so that they can process the emergencies more
    efficiently. They also have a special parking space near the Main Street
    entrance (marked with EMFMC something, I didn't write it down) for emergency
    pickups.

    The way the new system was explained in my group is different.  Reading
    between the lines, our management said that in future travel advances
    will NOT be given out.  When we travel in future, we must pay
    our own way for hotels, meals, miscellaneous expenses, and possibly
    rental cars as well.  (Digital will still spring for airplane tickets.) 
    We will then file a voucher for reimbursement.
    
    Reading through the replies to this topic, I am surprised to see no
    mention of this new "feature."  Are we misinformed?
    
    Assuming this is true, many of us are not happy with the feature.  Not
    all of us have company-issued AmEx cards; in fact, some of us do not
    have AmEx cards at all.  (We were told that we will not be issued
    corporate cards unless we plan on travelling to Europe more than twice
    a year.  No such luck.)  Some of us have only our own personal credit
    cards, with unknown balances on them.  I recently returned from a
    (first-ever, possibly once-in-a-lifetime) business trip to Europe,
    during which I ran up about $1,400 in charges.  I held my breath a lot,
    especially in the non-English speaking country, to see if they'd take
    my card.  Some co-workers feel they no longer are able to travel on
    company business, simply because they don't have the money to front
    Digital.
    
    Without an advance, you're one pickpocket away from real trouble.
    Rely on your personal card, and you run the risk of having it not
    accepted, or outright refused, at someplace hideously distant from the
    nearest ATM.  In my travels I saw two different gentlemen having their
    cards cut in half at airport Avis counters.  (At least it didn't happen
    in front of a customer.)
    
    I have no problem with the concept of EFT reimbursement.  I do have a
    problem with the abolition of travel advances, if that is indeed the
    case.

    
    re .92:
    
    Given what they've done with plane tickets�, it would not suprise me if
    advances went away. However, when the presentation was given to TAY
    people the specific question was asked, "If I convert an electronic
    advance to trav-checks, will I be able to expense the fee?" The answer
    was "Yes."�
    
    I think it's reasonable for you to demand one of the following:
    
     o  reasonable advances
    
     o  corporate travel card
    
     o  no travel
    
    
    
    � >> (Digital will still spring for airplane tickets.) 
      Digital *used to* spring for plane tickets. My current experience is
      that they use my corporate AMEX for the tix, so I get to float the
      cost and explain to AMEX every time my payment is late because the
      expense voucher hasn't been processed yet.
    
    � Hopefully, if the plan was to eliminate advances, the answer to that
      question would have indicated so -- but one can never be sure...
    

    Anent .93: You can get advances, but under what circumstances?  We
    don't see scheduled business travel there any more.

    You get the advance same as usual, it just goes into your EFT account.
    Now this does mean emergency travel can't get and advance. But I would
    refuse to travel without an advance. I already buy too many things for
    DEC with my own money.

    In the presentation at DSG, it was never said that advances were going
    away. They will be electronically transferred, however. 
    
    There is an emergency travel advance procedure. I and others have
    referred to it in the last several notes. It basically involves sending
    an electronic message or facsimilie to MLO21, then driving down during
    the key half-hour that they have set up for handling emergency advances
    and getting a check there. Somebody in your group(s) should have that
    information. If they don't, well, it goes back to my point about how
    screwed up communication is on this issue. Contact Ron Aronson, EMFMC
    Project Mgr. for details.

    re .92 
    
    How often do you travel?  The requirement of '2 trips to Europe per
    year' to receive a corporate card should not be accepted by you if you
    travel a decent number of times.  When I started to travel more, my
    group had no problems with folks opting to get a corporate card.  I got
    a Diner's Club Corporate Card two years ago, and it has eased my
    worries about travel.  If you rarely travel, there should be some way
    for 'advances' to take place, ESPECIALLY for international travel
    (which I've never done - all domestic).
    
    JD

    
    What's the big problem?
    
    We (Europe) don't get Advances, Apart from Flight Tickets/Car Rental
    we pay up for Hotels,Meals,Taxi,Etc either in real money or Credit
    Card.. How we  pay is up to us, so mostly it is Credit Card (Personal)
    
    On return from trip, fill in expense claims which get processed and the
    money transferred into your account long before the  credit card
    companies can even catch up. ( Sometimes takes them 3 months )
    
    Even when you get billed, there is 28 days to pay.
    
     So, by prompt filling in of the Expenses, and EFt Transfer you get the 
     Interest on the Money as a "freebie" before you pay the bill.
    
     :-)
     N.N.
    
     Salaries are payed monthly by EFT anyway.

    The last few replies have eased my concerns, assuming I'm not in an
    organization that has made its own cost-cutting measures.
    
    Anent .98 (N. N.): I take it no European employee is living close to
    his credit limit?  What a wonderful place!  8^)

Gee, I came to Digital after I got laid off from Wang Laboratories.
When I started there, I was going to a series of meetings all over
the country.  When the meetings ended, Wang told me that I should
have a company American Express card, since I was doing so much
travelling.

When I was laid off, of course, Wang demanded that I return the
AMEX card.

Six months after being laid off, I received an envelope in
the mail . . .




 . . . containing a brand-new Wang corporate American Express
card for the next year!!!


(You can imagine the fantasies I had over that!)

				- - Steve

re.98:

I can't speak for Europe but I do know that the UK gives travel advances.

/Dave.

    In all European countries I've worked (exactly 2 :-) there's both a
    permanent advance, and you can get a temporary one if the expected
    costs are very high. The permanent advance here in Germany is rather
    (not to say ridiculously) low, DM 400 (~$240), just enough for a
    typical one-night trip maybe.
    
    Until now DEC used to reimburse any overdraft interests caused by
    travel, but I think now they insist that you either take an extra
    advance if the DM 400 isn't enough, or suffer any extra cost yourself.
    
    

re: .102 Permanent Advance

I don't know about Digital, but another company here in the U.S. used to have
a permanent advance for its employees who travel alot.  It was stopped after
the IRS ruled that it was income and taxes need to be paid on it.

Bob

    I don't understand why a corporate card would be so hard to get.  The
    expenses incurred on one are not paid directly by Digital - the
    cardholder is responsible totally!  Sales training gives ALL students a
    package of information their first day of training and it includes a
    corporate credit card application.  It's up to the student to complete
    and return for processing.  The card will go with you to any cost
    center you work in because there are no associated fees with it until
    you process an expense voucher for either your expenses or the yearly
    fee.
    
    There are alot of managers who DO NOT understand that.  Many of them
    think their cost center is liable for any charges to the card.  But,
    it's only liable for the ones they approve via voucher.  You can use
    the card for a dinner check and not put in a voucher and DEC is none
    the wiser!  Just pay the balance from your own pocket!
    
    Personally, from a secretarial standpoint, I think any manager who
    travels should have a credit card.  It will alleviate TAF (travel
    authorization form) for tickets and advances, GLA (guarantee late
    arrival) on hotel reservations, and of course rental cars are covered. 
    Much easier and more cost effectove.  Well worth the $55/yr fee when my
    time is now spent doing other "real" work.
    
    -sandy
    

    
    > I don't understand why a corporate card would be so hard to get.  The
    > expenses incurred on one are not paid directly by Digital - the
    > cardholder is responsible totally! 
    
    >There are alot of managers who DO NOT understand that.  Many of them
    >think their cost center is liable for any charges to the card.  But,
    >it's only liable for the ones they approve via voucher.  
    
    As long as you pay off your bill, Digital and/or your cost center 
    isn't liable for anything; however, should you run up charges on
    your card (whether business-related or personal), and then not pay
    them off, Digital is ultimately responsible for paying them.  You could
    conceivably run up a huge tab while on vacation, quit your job, and
    leave Digital stuck with the bill.  
    
    - David
    

	 A colleague told me today that included with a recent 
	reimbursement check was a notice that Digital would shortly
	discontinue paying reimbursements by check and when that occurred,
	all reimbursements would be by EFT.

	 There was a number for questions on the note. She called to ask 
	how folks who do no authorize EFT would be reimbursed, and was
	told that they didn't know, but the only option available
	for reimbursement would be EFT.

	 Seems to me that they are going to break something that isn't
	in need of fixing. I know I am not going to be authorizing EFT,
	so does this mean that I'll no longer be able to incur expenses
	requiring reimbursement? Like taking my own car to meeting at 
	other sites...

					Tom_K

    Refer to my reply, .91 in this thread.
    
    I believe the "two account" system has already been set up, which might
    satisfy those who want to keep their reimbursements and weekly paycheck
    separated. I suspect those who do not want anything but a check are
    going to have to compromise.
    
    [For the record, the new system has been working reasonably for me.]

I just had an interesting experience with the process of getting advances
on expenses that I thought I would share.  This isn't a complaint, but rather
a warning to people who might otherwise become far more inconvenienced than
I was.

A few months ago, I was asked to be one of my group's representatives at
DECUS, something I've done a number of times before.  Typically, I would
receive an advance request form from my secretary a few weeks before the
trip and would get the advance deposited in my account by EFT a few days
before I left.  However, a new secretary was handling my DECUS arrangements
this time and she didn't do this.  I realized it the week before I was to
leave, and asked for the advance to be submitted, which it was early in the
week.  When I had not received the customary notification of deposit before
I left, I figured that something had gotten held up and I'd take care of it
when I returned, it was not a big deal to me.

So imagine my surprise when I returned this morning to find a voicemail message
from Employee Disbursements (in MKO, I'm in ZKO) waiting for me saying "We've 
been holding your check here since June 2 - please let us know when you'll 
pick it up"!  Say what?

I called them and asked: 1) Why wasn't the check deposited using EFT, and
2) Why, if they wanted me to pick up a check, wasn't I told about it?  The
answer was that my secretary had marked the request "Emergency" and,
unknown to her, this causes the EFT system to be bypassed so that the check
can be picked up the same day.  Furthermore, there's no notification that
the check is available, the requestor is expected to already know that they
should go get it!  Needless to say this was news to the secretary!

So...  don't mark an advance request "Emergency" unless you're willing to
find your local Employee Disbursements office and pick up the check in
person, as you won't get it through EFT even if you're signed up for it.

				Steve

>>    <<< Note 1580.109 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>
>>               -< Talke care with "emergency" advance requests >-

I had an advance request marked "emergency" a few weeks ago.  My secretary
FAXed the request in.  I never got notification of deposit and when I got
back,  I had her check into it.

They said they never got the FAX!

No biggy,  I just submitted my expenses but I'm still waiting for my money.
It's been 2 weeks now and the last report was that it would be done yesterday.

I thought this system was supposed to be easier and faster but it doesn't
even come close to having my secretary walk upstairs even once a week to get
checks from petty cash.

Garry

    
    ref .110
    
              You mis-interpeted faster and easier.
    		              
    		sort of like Rabbit and turtle.
                sort of like Manadona and Sister Mary Joseph
    
    this is an encrypted message............................

   Re: Note 1580.111 by MEMIT::CANSLER
    
�    ref .110
    
�              You mis-interpeted faster and easier.
    		              
�    		sort of like Rabbit and turtle.
�                sort of like Manadona and Sister Mary Joseph
    
�    this is an encrypted message............................

   I have had nothing but great service from the new system.  It got
   better with my last round of expenses.
   
   I turned in three vouchers on Tuesday morning.  I had my money in my
   checking account Thursday evening.  I think this is more than
   adequate.

    Here in the field the turnaround has been spotty (but overall, good). 
    Normally, any vouchers submitted in week 1 don't get sent out until
    Friday (Fedex).  One more week while the district people go over them,
    and by the Wed/Thurs. of week 3 the money is deposited (2 weeks
    sometimes).
    
    As I said before, I'm pretty happy with the new system.  Saves me a
    trip to the bank.
    
    --- Gavin

    ref .112
    
              Yours is incrypted more than my response was: what do you
    mean.  are you responding to my reply or you responding to .110
    
    bc
    
    
    just having a little humor

I just spent 3 months off-site, out of the country.  EFT worked
like a charm.  Much faster than what I put up with a few years
ago.  Only complaint was that there was a mistake on one of
my expense forms (Cost Center changed due to re-org), and the
person that signed wasn't authorized.

Instead of electronically informing me of this mistake, they sent
my expenses back to my home location inter-office mail.  Luckily,
I happened to have a trip back, and went in to the office and
checked my mail box, or the expense form would have sat there forever.

If they go electronic, why not send a message informing person of
problem  via e-mail?

But, that was a minor problem.  

JD