Conference 7.286::digital

        I propose that software extensions to VAXnotes (or to some other
    similar sort of distributed application environment) be implemented such
    that each employee could be given the power to both purchase and sell
    information in a simulated internal free market environment.  In this
    environment, there would be both producers and consumers of information
    items.  These information items would be offered for sale in various
    information "stores" around the network.

    	The way it could work is that (using VAXnotes jargon for an example)
    a note could be offered for sale as follows: SET NOTE/PRICE=n (where n
    would refer to a default price of the information item in question).  The
    note would remain locked and hidden from view until purchased, at which
    point, the information would become accessable (UNHIDDEN) to the purchaser.

    	In order to learn something about a particular item of information
    before purchasing it (i.e. to "shop" for information), each particular
    item of information (i.e. note) for sale would have statistics associated
    with it including such data as: (1) Brief Description, (2) Amount Sold,
    (3) Initial Price  (4) Current Price (allowing items to be marked down
    "on sale" later), etc.  Some of these statistics (such as the Amount Sold)
    would be automatically calculated and others would be established using
    extensions to the VAXnotes SET NOTE command, and all would appear to the
    potential customer when the SHOW NOTE command was issued.  In addition,
    subsequent replies to the note could be used for any related discussions
    such as customer testimonials, guarantees, disclaimers, rebates, barter
    information, haggling, etc.

    	Money would be in the form of information credit and debit dollars
    (or units) and in order to expidite the free market flow of information,
    cost center managers would be encouraged to provide their employees with
    a quarterly allowance of information dollars which could then be used to
    purchase information directly from the notesfiles as information consumers.
    Information producers, on the other hand, could either control their own
    individual or group notesfile information "stores", or they could act as
    warehouses to other retail outlets from which the information consumers
    would then shop.  At the end of each quarter, information dollar debits
    and credits could be tallied and entered into individual and/or project
    and cost center budgets just as is any other resource currently bought
    and sold internally.

    	In order for the purchaser (or customer) to purchase something, they
    must either pay for the given information item in "cash" (in the form of
    an authorized noting profile with purchasing authority), or on credit (in
    which case, the customer would be billed later for the information items).
    The notion of "cash" could be implemented by establishing a VAXnotes
    command such as SET PROFILE/PURCHASE_AUTHORITY=n/COST_CENTER=xxx
    /CHECK_SUM=xxxxxxxxxx, and this would provide the consumer with instant
    transaction processing ability.  Other consumers might prefer to use
    credit card purchases instead.  "Credit" would first be established by
    the moderator of the "store" notesfile (typically also the producer),
    by performing various ADD and MODIFY MEMBER commands (such as MODIFY
    MEMBER/COST_CENTER=xxx/PURCHASE_AUTHORITY=n/CHECK_SUM=xxxxxxxx, etc.,),
    and credit card customers would then be automatically billed at the end
    of each month.  In either case, a check_sum could be used to verify the
    legitimacy of given consumers.

    				    -davo

    Now I have heard of everything !
    
    It is bad enough that to get a library book from one of Digitals
    Librarys electronically you have to pay for the service, I think it was
    $1000/year for a cost center, you want to restrict information over the
    net too.  Let's bury ourselves in paperwork and lets use all our
    computer power on keeping track of what cost center used what
    information and let's bill them for it.  To be more cost effective
    people need to share information freely, be more objective, GET
    RID OF UNNECESSARY PROCEDURES.  The name of the game is to be cost
    effective not costly.
    

Re .0 and .1:  Yuk, yuk, yuk.

(I just love satire...You are, of course, kidding...Aren't you?...)

Interesting concept in the base note. I read it as a well constructed
piece of sarcasm in the way that some organizations through out Digital
want to charge for everything, and just how much support must be added to cover
the admin of the charging.

You see I have to cover my budget by cross-charging all my expense to someone
who used my groups services. Every year as we do the rate setting exercise I
have at least one or two people in the group who believe the rate structure is
too simple and we should charge by foo unit. And every year the battle comes
down to the fact that I want a nice simple structure with the minimum of 
accounting programs running and the minimum amount of peoples time spent in 
making the cost centers come to $0. My goal has been and still is 
" keep the process simple, make it responsive, and cover my (the customer)
expense.) Currently a secretary corrects any billing errors and usually on the
first phone call.

For comparison the group in question is an operations world that covers
80 systems in  four building on a 7 x 24 basis with over 900 spindles (raxx)
with an expense budget of ~$2.7 million. 

    
    
                       
    How about setting a price for .0 and .1 to $-1.0 ,  have Davo to pay us
    for reading this stuff ?
    
    					w

I agree that, as KO has warned, we need to get away from cumbersome processes,
but lets imagine that this idea had an effecient process of keepping track of 
the chips, could it not be possible that this would stimulate the flow of
information?  Kind of like going from a communistic to free market approach to
information.  Do somethings seem more valuable if we must pay for them?  If 
someone believed that they could 'profit' by 'sharing' their information, might
they be more inclined to market it, thus making it more available to others? 
Where's George Orwell when ya need him?

    	Ok, now that I have your attention, maybe I'll admit to somewhat of
    a tongue in cheek here, however, those of you who ridicule the idea of
    charging other cost centers for services rendered have obviously never
    worked in a group such as Educational Services which charges other cost
    centers for every single second of ES employee time and resoures.  While
    it is somewhat of a pain to have to track things so closely, the reality
    of the situation is that the alternative is somewhat akin to communism or
    socialism in which the hard-working individuals are taken advantage of by
    the lazy and/or powerful individuals.  For this reason, I feel that such
    a system (if implemented correctly) would actually revolutionize the
    information technology business as well as the computer world.

    	For example, I am a wage class 4 Senior Software Engineer, but each
    week I, along with the rest of my entire organization, have to fill out 
    what are called "Labor Tickets".  These labor tickets are designed to
    account for every single minute of my time which I have to then charge 
    to a given project number, or look bad if I can't come up with a number
    to charge to.  Despite efforts over the years to put this process on-line,
    employees are still required to fill out a signed labor ticket on paper
    to a person who's entire job is nothing but that of entering this data
    on-line into a homegrown database application.  ES Managers then use this
    data to forecast budgets and costs, etc.

    	Now this may sound weird to some of you (I know because I once worked
    in an Engineering group that had never heard of such red tape), but I know
    that Ed Services is not alone in charging time and resources to other cost
    centers within this corporation.  On top of that, there is no means for
    someone such as myself to legitimately spend any of my time whatsoever in
    providing any sort of information to notesfiles (unless of course a project
    exists which specifically requires that I do so).

    	Here are some other reasons for seriously considering the idea of
    "info_stores" (which I began to outline in reply #.1):

    	()   You get what you pay for.  If you aren't willing to pay for the
    	     sort of information found in notesfiles, etc., then how can you
    	     be guaranteed any level of quality information?

    	()   Revolutionize the industry in terms of peer-to-peer working
    	     environents thus reducing empire building to the individual level.

    	()   Reverse the trend of taking information providers for granted.

    	()   Allow entrepeneurial individuals the chance to really show their
    	     stuff as the more quality information provided, the more info-
    	     dollars the individual would collect.

    	()   Motivate people who might otherwise be uninterested in helping
    	     any group other than their own and promote sharing of ideas across
    	     organizational boundaries and between groups which previously had
    	     trouble working together in virtual teams.

    	()   Provide an automatic means of reviewing performance (in terms of
    	     how much a person contributes to the corporation as a whole).

    	()   Implement "peristroika" in an otherwise centrally controlled
    	     economy of empires within a (typically socialist) corporate
    	     structure allowing free market competition to drive ideas.
    
    	()   Improve quantity, quality, and speed of information distribution.
    	     The sheer amount, level of quality, along with the response time
    	     of information provided in notesfiles (or "info-stores") would
    	     increase dramatically driven by the natural element of free market
    	     competition (i.e. I might provide a com file to do foo for $200,
    	     while George over there undercuts me with a com file doing the same
    	     thing for $150 - which one do you buy?  Check the testimonials
    	     and shop around).

    	()  Automate record keeping - reduce the time spent each week (in my
    	     case for example filing out labor tickets), as well as eliminate
    	     the need for a data entry person to enter the resulting data as
    	     time spent providing information in the "info-stores" would then
    	     be automatically tracked.

    	()  Legitimize information and resource sharing as a valid business.

    	()  Last, but certainly not least, introduce this product to the world
    	     and sell the heck out of it to other companies who have the same
    	     exact needs in terms of placing value on information as a resource.

    				    -davo

p.s.	This idea is a "free bonus".  ;^)

I would surely like to know how the current information flow within DEC
is 'communistic' and what is proposed would be 'free market'? You must be
perpetuating the joke that was profered in .0/.1, no?

A sure-fire way to kill information flow is to put a price on it...
cost-cutting managers would quickly cut off access for their employees as
a cost-saving measure.

And anyway, are you willing to 'pay' for somthing that you have not even
seen or evaluated as being useful?

After reading these notes I had to double check to see if April 1st had
come early this year....

Lee

re: .9,

	Whether by free market competition, or by central authority,
    information goods and services are destined to be paid for in one
    way or another.  The choice is not one of whether information goods
    and services are free or not, but one of whether we pay for them in
    a centrally planned method, or a free market approach.

	If we do nothing and simply promote the present method of voluntary
    information distribution via the notesfiles to continue, eventually the
    novelty of the distributed notesfile environment wears off somewhat and
    all that remains is the work of voluntarily distributing information
    goods and services "to those in need from those who can" in the name
    of the corporate good or whatever.

    	How is the present situation of information distribution in the
    notesfiles similar to communism or socialism?  Well, it all relates to
    the level of corporate socialism which currently exists within many
    corporations today.  Ralph Nader could probably explain this idea much
    better as his latest kick is that of warning people of the dangers of
    "corporate socialism", but I'll give it a quick shot here.  First of all,
    a couple of definitions are in order:

    From Websters 7th New Collegiate Dictionary (emphasis mine):

    	Socialism: a : any of various economic and political theories advocating
    	collective or government ownership and administration of the means of
    	production and *distribution of goods*.  2 a : a system of society or
    	group living in which there is *no private property*.  b : a system or
    	condition of society in which the means of production are owned and
    	controlled by the state.  3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory
    	transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by
    	*unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done*.

    	Communism: a : a theory advocating *elimination of private property*.
    	b : a system in which *goods are owned in common and available to all
    	as needed*.  2 a : a doctrine based upon revolutionary ideology of the
    	U.S.S.R.  b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single
    	authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the
    	proffessed aim of establishing a stateless society.  c : a final stage
    	of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and
    	*economic goods are distributed equally*.

    	Now, granted that there are differences between a large business
    (corporation) and a political entity, but when it comes to the production
    and distribution of goods and services, I see some definite similarities
    (especially in the way information is currently distributed here in the
    notesfiles).  The major hurdle people need to get over is that of being
    able to recognize that the value of quality information is equivalent to
    the value of goods and services.  Once you are able to view information as
    a good or service, then perhaps you will be able to see how our current
    notesfile information distribution set-up is communistic (and therefore
    it conflicts with almost every other way we carry out our business).

    	If a corporation is consistently communistic is every other respect
    as well as in its distribution of information, then the free and open
    sharing of goods and services in notesfiles would perhaps make more sense,
    but since the majority of business practices (within our corporation anyway)
    are *not* based upon free and open sharing of goods and services, then the
    inherent conflicts arise.  If we are to truly share information freely
    amongst different organizations, then we will also need to abolish the
    current capitalistic approach to conducting the rest of our business
    within the corporation as well.  Do we really want to do that?

    	The necessity of placing a value on information is required regardless
    of whether that value is established by a central authority (communistic
    planned economy), or whether the value is arrived at using a free market
    (capitalistic) approach.  The idea of information having a value is not
    new (the teaching profession has been charging money for information
    distribution since day #1).  What is new is the process of information
    distribution allowed by such distributed applications as notesfiles.
    In a capitalistic set-up, people should no more *be expected* to distribute
    information for free in the notesfiles than they would *be expected* to
    distribute courseware for free in the classroom (or any other good or
    service for that matter - charitable volunteerism not withstanding). 

	Therefore, cost-cutting managers will be wise to shop around and
    obtain the best information goods and services for their info-bucks.
    In a centrally planned information distribution system, the cost cutting
    managers would have no choice but to pay the price levied by the central
    information price controlling committee (assuming information distribution
    is to be established along a centrally planned or communistic model).

    				    -davo

	Actually I see some indications that the number of people writing
	and using notes is climbing pretty steadily even without monetary
	incentive. All numbers are rough but fairly accurate. I am totally
	responsible for acquiring and reducing this data.

	In the last 3 months there has been a 5.7% increase in the number
	of nodes hosting notes conferences. A 7% increase in the number of
	moderators and an 8.8% increase in the number of notes conferences.

	There are now well over 10,500 conferences on the network. About
	5,000 of them are non-restricted. These conferences account for
	750,000 topics and over 3,700,000 notes. There are more restricted
	conferences then non restricted ones. An estimate of 7,000,000
	notes network wide seems very reasonable. 

	People seem to be using Notes. Notes usage appears to be on the
	rise. I can track a very steady growth in people getting on the
	distribution list for EASYNOTES.LIS for example. 52 people wrote 
	their first note in to this conference in January. In an average
	month ~42 people write their first note in this conference. That
	is growth.

	People seem to be getting value for their time as it is. The system
	is not broken. It is in fact running very smoothly. If anything,
	I see this plan (.0) as getting in the way not helping. The system
    	in .0 would result in a few people making a living writing notes.
    	This would result in other people letting the other guy do it with
    	a resulting loss of fresh ideas. Not only that but casual browsing
    	would be discouraged because of cost. Thus fewer people learning
    	new ideas. We'd wind up with small groups of information sponges
    	alternately absorbing and dispersing information.

			Alfred

    
    Re .0, .10:
    
    A couple of years ago I read a really good SF story (wish I could
    remember the name, darnit), about a world that had been populated by
    humans who had basically cast off all cultural bonds with Earth, and
    about what happens when a well-meaning group of Earthlings visits that
    planet some 200 years later. One of the differences that enormously
    bothered the Earthlings was that there was no discernable capitalistic
    structure -- there were no 'salaries', nor did people seem to 'pay' for
    anything. Many of the Earthlings were at a loss to declare their own
    'worth' in such an environment.
                             
    Turns out that your worth was universally equated to something that
    you did well and conscientiously. You chose what that was, based on
    your talents and desires, and your peers judged your worth on how well
    you applied yourself. Painting a home, running a nuclear plant,
    creating a piece of art -- didn't matter. Your worth was their         
    opinion of your work, and you exchanged the discharge of your chosen
    profession for goods at the (seemingly free) public stores.
    As in real-life situation, there was no 'free lunch'; public censure
    in inverse proportion to to the perceived leve of your worth prevented
    you from unjustly dipping into the well. The newcomers either adapted to
    these ideas, or came to various levele of grief trying to change them.
    
    				--------
    
    I like to think that in many situations we work in a replication-
    in-miniature of that environment, especially with regard to the free
    flow of ideas and information on the net. They flow not because of some
    tangible remuneration (funny-money or otherwise), but because of the
    intangible rewards they generate in the form of peer esteem and the
    sheer joy of doing a good job. People who generate good ideas and
    trustworthy information make a positive reputation for themselves, and
    that reputation can be cashed in in any number of ways. People who horde
    ideas and publish faulty information develop a negative reputation that
    can cost them dearly.
    
    So, 'Earthling', figure out your own worth on our money-less internal
    information network, and do well whatever you enjoy to improve your worth
    in that society -- but leave our economy alone!
    
    (And put those new boots back on the shelf until you come up with
    something useful...)
    

re: .11,

	If it isn't working as well as it might, then why not provide a
    few extra features to try and promote an even more enhanced level of
    information distribution.  Digital has always been known for pursuing
    revolutionary ideas, as opposed to playing catch-up to other companies
    who manage to implement such ideas first.  Besides, we aren't the only
    company out there with a Notes-styled product.  The information age is
    still in its chaotic infantile stages, and few have yet learned how to
    tap into the potential power of distributed information systems.

	Don't think of this as a fix, think of it as an enhancement.  You
    could still post regular notes as usual (and most people likely would),
    but you would also be able to post various informational notes "for sale"
    as well - thus adding to the amount of truly valuable information on-line.
    Allow the free market system to determine the true value of a given piece
    of information (if an item of information sells alot, or if information
    consumers rave about something in follow-up replies, then it must be
    valuable information to somebody anyway).

	I am well aware of the increase of notesfiles on the network.  So
    is Win Hindle and others in upper-level management.  Keep in mind however,
    that the current situation is still thriving on the chaos of the novelty
    of noting that people first experience when beginning to note (just as
    teenagers call each other alot on the phone when they first begin to use
    the phone as well - after the novelty of the phone wears off, people hide
    and play phone tag to avoid it and dedicated "hot-line" support people
    are eventually hired to replace those who formerly volunteered information
    over the phone for "free").  Don't be fooled into thinking that the current
    notesfile situation will perpetuate forever - eventually people will
    likely become tired and burned-out spending an inordinate amount of time
    volunteering useful information in the work-related notesfiles for "free".
    At that point, it may become harder to find quality information on-line.

	As to making a living out of writing notes, I don't see what is so
    bad about that.  If people can make a living out of answering phones, or
    replying to mail messages, then what's the difference?  A consultant in
    the notesfile is no different than a consultant down the hall.  The nice
    thing about notesfiles is that they are already on-line, and they are 
    already distributed to boot!  It would seem to me to be a fairly simple
    process to automate a VAXnoting billing feature for information crediting
    (as opposed to our current paper labor ticket fiasco, or the many phone
    logging systems and other such messaging systems which are not already
    on-line and must be manually logged each time - field service calls for
    example).

	Let me ask you this, what if our entire business relied on people
    *voluntarily* answering phone hot-lines and attending meetings?  What if
    there was no salary review process (don't laugh) and people were simply
    relied on to volunteer their time equally to running the business of the
    overall corporation?  Now what about Joe Blow who is paid the same as
    Mary Berry even though Mary spends 20 hours a week extra volunteering
    useful information to work-related notesfiles while Joe spends any of
    his spare time reading his favorite murder mystery novel?  Now suppose
    that Mary sat right next to Joe and one day noticed that he was reading
    a novel by one of her favorite authors?  Do you honestly think that Mary's
    morale won't be a little deflated by this - after all, where is the
    incentive for her to work her fanny off writing in the work-related
    notesfiles when she would really rather be reading that novel too?

	Don't get me wrong, volunteerism is a great thing, and I think that
    we can expect to see a continued increase in such voluntary information
    distribution via the notesfiles for some time to come due to the fact that
    many people are still just learning about this communication medium and,
    as such, the novelty of noting has yet to peak out.  But what about all
    of the lost opportunities?  What about the experienced people who avoid
    notesfiles like the plague (even though they do know how to use them)?
    What about people who feel they are too busy to justify spending their
    time providing useful information in the notesfiles?  There is a vast
    array of knowledge going untapped here and it isn't always be accident.
    
	Lastly, what about the people who do truly enjoy VAXnoting, but end
    up getting drawn into the more interesting discussions (Employee Interest
    notesfiles) rather than participating much in the sometimes less interesting
    work-related notesfiles?  You can either punish those who spend too much
    of their time in the employee interest notesfiles (negative reinforcement
    as is done at IBM), or you can reward those who spend their extra time in
    the work-related notesfiles.  I vote for the latter solution for DEC.
    The reason is that I think any sort of negative reinforcement techniques
    would simply turn people off to the entire noting realm altogether while
    a positive reinforcement technique such as the "info-store" idea would
    serve to greatly enhance employee utilization of the notesfiles for work-
    related activities.

				    -davo

re: .12,

	Hey, wait a minute!  I wouldn't mind it at all if DEC really was
    able to function successfully like you described the planet in your
    science fiction story you read.  The problem is that whether you like
    it or not, this is a real live capitalist corporation with real live
    corporate executives, managers, salary structures, and all of the
    associated realities therein.  Not only that, but the last time I checked,
    such socialistic and/or communistic societies as the one you describe
    are on the way out and fast!

	Gone are the days when we in the "free world" will have a monopoly
    on capitalistic production and distribution.  We will increasingly be
    facing even stiffer competition from some really hungry up and coming
    capitalists just beyond what was once the "iron curtain".  If you think
    the Japanese are tough competitors - just wait!

	In any case, I think that there is room for the dreamers and the
    idealistic sorts from your planet (I know I certainly include myself as
    one), but only after we carve out a comfortable niche for our corporation
    will we be able to contemplate such a utopia.  In the meantime, it is high
    time we all wake up and smell the coffee as our competitors are fixing to
    eat us alive!  Either we begin to come up with some really innovative ways
    of producing new revenues, or we perish in a whirlwind of superior products
    offered by other vendors.  I think this proposed system would more than
    double the present amount of quality information transfered within our
    own company, not to mention the revenues generated by selling such an
    enhanced software system to our customers.  Who knows, it could even be
    rigged-up to replace the current "Electronic Store" that we provide to
    our customers on-line via VTX.

				   -davo

p.s.	Besides, I'm not an Earthling.  ;^)

	For those of you in the field who might natually feel opposed to such
    an idea since it would mean that you would need to purchase much of the
    information you currently get for "free", then allow me to describe a
    rough draft of how I envision this thing working.

	First of all, a new form of on-line currency must be developed.  I
    call this currency "info-dollars".  It is like "funny money", except
    you'll be laughing all the way to the corporate bank on this one.  Here's
    how it works: 

	a.  Information is any sort of suggestion, process, product, or
	    resource which doesn't already have any sort of system in place
	    of adequately crediting the people involved in producing and/or
	    championing the item of information.  Information would be offered
	    "for sale" (for lack of a better phrase) in any notesfile and a
	    concentrated collection of such info-items would constitute an
	    "info-store".

	b.  A given information transaction has a producer and a consumer.
	    Producers would typically be individuals volunteering information
	    goods and services on their own time, but a Producer could also be
	    a group of people selling information as a collective unit.
	    Consumers, on the other hand, are typically individuals who
	    are in search of a given item of quality information in a hurry.
	    In addition, other roles could be developed as well such as the
	    retailer (notesfile moderators), as well as wholesaler (easynotes
	    list maintainer - Alfred, are you listening?).

	c.  Information could be offered for sale by anyone in any group.
	    This means that field people are also eligible to sell information
	    as well as (perhaps more typically) purchase it.

	d.  To encourage the use of the info-store, the field would act as
	    recipients of special incentive info-dollars from a corporate
	    info-dollar reserve.  In such a way, the typical info-dollar
	    would flow in a reverse direction, from the sales people involved
	    in satisfying a given customer, back to those able to help satisfy
	    the customer.  This would help to implement the idea Dave Carnell
	    inspired in another note whereby we "Reverse Engineer" a sale from
	    the satisfied customer back to the source of the satisfaction.

	e.  A optional percentage (corporate tax) on all items sold could be
	    return from all info-stores to the corporate reserve, so as to
	    provide a constant supply of working info-capital up front.

	f.  Info-dollars would be accumulated by each individual employee
	    involved in the production and/or sale of a given info item.
	    These dollars could be used for a variety of "funny-money" uses
	    such as purchasing equipment for internal use, to training, to
	    whatever the employee feels they need, but they would probably
	    not be transferable to real money due to tax complications (at
	    least not until the kinks of the system could be ironed out first).

	I plan to add more on this later, but for now, here is a rough view
    of a possible info-money "data-flow-diagram" (don't worry if I left out
    any organizations - this is only a first draft):

                             +-----------------+
                             | Sales & Service |
                             | Revenues (begin)|
                             +-----------------+
                                      |
                                      v
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|        Corporate Shell (where real money turns into "funny money")           |
|                                                                              |
| +-------------------------------+                     +--------------------+ |
| | Corporate info-dollar reserve |<--------------------| Corporate Info Tax | |
| +-------------------------------+------>+             +--------------------+ |
|         |                   |           |                        ^           |
|         v                   v           v                        |           |
|  +-------------+      +-----------+    +---------------+         |           |
|  | Sales Force |      | Marketing |    | Sales Support |         |           |
|  +-------------+      +-----------+    +---------------+         |           |
|              ^              ^                  ^                 |           |
|               \             |                  |                 |           |
|                \            v                  v          +-------------+    |
|                 +<----->(Info transaction Process)<------>| Info Stores |    |
|                /                   ^             ^        +-------------+    |
|               /                    |              \                          |
|              v                     v               v                         |
|  +-----------------+    +---------------------+   +-----+                    |
|  | Product Support |    | Product Development |   | R&D |                    |
|  +-----------------+    +---------------------+   +-----+                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

				    -davo

    
    Consider a real-life alternative:
    
    A customer support organization needs help answering questions for
    customers. They turn to informal methods (mail to specific engineers,
    notes conferences on the product), which work for a while, until the
    volume of questions increases. When informal responses fail to meet
    their needs, they negotiate with a central support organization and the
    engineering group to set up a formal process, which defines individual
    responsibilities and begins to mesaure people on timely responses.
    The needs of the field organization are once again met, and because
    there are defined responsibilities and metrics, staffing can be
    adjusted as necessary to continue to supply timely responses.
    
    This is happening today, and it works quite well, without an
    info-dollar beurocracy.
    

    	re: SF story. This is just a twist on the real capitalistic system,
    	the esteem we have is money. It takes care of a very universal
    	judgment of what something is worth for the others.

    	We have systems designed to distribute correct technical
    information to the field, the TIMA . It takes care of both making
    sure that information is correct, available, distributed and authors
    rewarded . It's not perfect but still works rather well.

    						wlodek

    

re: .16,

>                  -< Give me the low-tech solution any day! >-
    
>    This is happening today, and it works quite well, without an
>    info-dollar beurocracy.

    	The main problem I see with choosing the low-tech solutions over
    high-tech solutions is that a low-tech solution is by its own nature
    going to be slower and less efficient.  Not only that, but we are a
    company whose very bread and butter comes from the manufacture of high-
    tech solutions, so to choose low-tech solutions over high-tech solutions
    would seem to run counter to our very purpose for being.

    	Besides that, I think you are incorrect in assuming that this newer
    methodology (i.e. info-dollar marketing of information) would necessarily
    add yet more layers of bureaucracy and process to our way of doing business.
    In fact, one of the express purposes of such a system would be to eliminate
    many existing layers of bureaucracy.  Imagine being able to obtain any
    given resource within digital at a momments notice!  Without such a system,
    in order to obtain resources from another group, a lengthy process must
    be endured which includes writing of long and tedious proposals, followed
    be seemingly endless meetings involving people who typically serve no other
    purpose than to place their bureaucratic stamp of approval on the deal
    (especially since few of the people involved in the actual meetings will
    do any of the work), these lengthy negotiations typically last several
    weeks or months, and many times, the deal falls through anyway because
    by the time the negotiations solidify into some sort of an agreement
    (assuming they even do), many times the original need has long since
    gone away or has been cancelled.

    	Imagine trying to shop at a store which, in order to purchase anything,
    it was required that you first set up a meeting with your supervisor (who
    must approve all of your purchases), the store owner and manager, as well
    as the producer(s) of any products you might be interested in purchasing
    (along with a myriad of other interested parties).  Sure, there was free
    coffee and doughnuts to eat while you waited, but the negotiation process
    necessary to purchase anything useful would be so mired in bureaurocracy,
    that you might grow old and die before you ever negotiated a contract to
    purchase anything.  Believe it or not, this is similar to how we currently
    do our business internally (where the free coffee and doughnuts represent
    that which can currently be obtained for "free" in the notesfiles - while
    supplies last anyway).

    	The idea of implementing an automated system for handling transactions
    of information goods and services such as the info-dollar idea is analogous
    to the idea of simply allowing these same stores to set up cash registers
    and to use a form of currency exchange to streamline the exchange of said
    goods and services.  In fact, this system would be even *more* streamlined
    than that since all info-dollar exchanges would be handled automatically
    similar to an ATM transaction.

    	Not only would such a system drastically reduce the levels of
    bureaucracy currently involved, but it would also provide an added level
    of *security* not found in the existing system.  This security feature is
    due to the fact that each consumer of information which is "for sale"
    in an info-store is automatically guaranteed to be a digital employee
    (since each employee info-dollar bank account would be tied into a
    corporate database).  This would serve to protect vital information while 
    at the same time allowing any digital employee (with adequate funds) to
    access that information.

    	Compare the info-store idea to the way in which vital information
    is currently stored on-line in restricted notesfiles - the practice of
    storing vital information in restricted notesfiles serves to partition
    the corporation into many smaller parts (none of which are privy to what
    goes on in the other), and this in turn promotes the division of the
    corporation into many smaller empires.  Not only that, but restricted
    notesfiles are only a panacea anyway due to the delicate balancing act
    of limiting the restricted conference to only those people that need to
    know, while at the same time, including enough people in the restricted
    conference to get something accomplished.  The work involved in moderating
    a restricted conference is far too time-consuming as in order to adequately
    investigate each new member to find out whether they actually need to
    belong to the conference or not is next to impossible!  In any case, the
    use of restricted notesfiles can hardly be called a "free-flow of
    information", whereas the info-store idea, on the other hand, would
    allow free-flow of information (to anyone who could afford it).

    				   -davo

re: .17,

>    	re: SF story. This is just a twist on the real capitalistic system,
>    	the esteem we have is money. It takes care of a very universal
>    	judgment of what something is worth for the others.

	Tell it to the patent judge.  "Oh, but I highly respect the owner
    of this invention, so I can't understand why I can't simply take the
    idea and do whatever I please with it."  Esteem is fine, but I can't
    use esteem to purchase my lunch in the cafeteria.  Neither should one
    expect to recieve computers, software, services, as well as any sort of
    information goods and services merely on some subjective level of esteem
    either.  To operate that way is elitist, aristocratic, and contrary to
    the free market system which thrives on new ideas and entrepeneurial
    innovation which is then tested in an open market through competition.

	Many people do operate on esteem, or at least the image of esteem.
    IBM bases the large majority of its customer base merely on the company's
    level of esteem (which is maintained by a sophisticated marketing effort),
    as opposed to the actual quality of its products.  Basing a corporate
    (much less a political) structure upon esteem alone is dangerous because
    it breeds complacency.  Those who succeed in such a system are tempted
    to rest on their laurels or to isolate themselves from reality in ivory
    towers which eventually leads to a loss of touch with reality.

	Besides, there is nothing which would prevent you from purchasing
    info-items based on the level of esteem you perceive in the person or
    persons involved in selling information goods and services in a given
    info-store.  Likewise, you could base much of your own information goods
    and services (IGS?) marketing approach on your own level of esteem if you
    wish.  Who knows, maybe your level of esteem is enough to sell alot of
    info-items for you.  I say let the free market decide.

>    	We have systems designed to distribute correct technical
>    information to the field, the TIMA . It takes care of both making
>    sure that information is correct, available, distributed and authors
>    rewarded . It's not perfect but still works rather well.

    	If TIMA (whatever that is) works for you, then fine.  There's
    nothing wrong with several different competing ways of doing things.
    In fact, such competition is exactly what the info-store idea would
    promote.  The free market thrives on competition.  Unfortunately, the
    current "free market" setup within digital is mired in bureaucracy.
    The info-store idea would represent an effort to implement a streamlined
    free market system which would promote the free-flow of quality information
    goods and services across a corporation.

    				   -davo


>                               -< make it $-10. >-

p.s.	Put it on my bill.  ;^)

re: pay-for-your-information

How would you like to go to the auto parts store and purchase individual
parts until you found the one that would make your broken car work?

In many cases the 'information' that is gleaned from notesfiles is done
in a plural fashion; i.e. read all of the notes that describe symptoms
similar to the problem you are having. Seldom can you get the exact note
that fixes your problem on the first try. Do you want to 'pay' for the
'information' that did not solve your problem?

Also... suppose I urgently need a piece of information to do my job and
the 'cost' of the information is higher than I currently can afford? Who
sets the prices for information?

I can in no way perceive the advantages of such a scheme outweighing the
bureaucratic orgy that would result if it were ever implemented.

Re: "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Our electronic information distribution isn't sick, it's just young.
Education is what is needed. Don't kill it with a dose of lethal
medicine, please!

Lee

re: .20,

> How would you like to go to the auto parts store and purchase individual
> parts until you found the one that would make your broken car work?

	Easy, you simply provide what is known as a "package" for each
    information good or service.  A given note "for sale" would be displayed
    in a "package".  Unlike a SET HIDDEN note (which I think I used before
    as an analogy), a note "for sale" could be packaged into a meaningful
    display that would provide any potential consumer with enough information
    from which to decide whether or not to purchase a given item of information
    or not.  In addition, satisfied customers might provide testimonial replies
    to a given note "for sale" (and likewise, dissatisfied customers would
    surely add their own comments as well ;^).

> In many cases the 'information' that is gleaned from notesfiles is done
> in a plural fashion; i.e. read all of the notes that describe symptoms
> similar to the problem you are having. Seldom can you get the exact note
> that fixes your problem on the first try. Do you want to 'pay' for the
> 'information' that did not solve your problem?

	The better info-stores would probably offer money-back guarantees
    or at least some sort of exchange policy (similar to the way respected
    businesses are run).  If you are worried about getting screwed, then
    don't purchase anything from an info-store which doesn't offer such deals.

> Also... suppose I urgently need a piece of information to do my job and
> the 'cost' of the information is higher than I currently can afford? Who
> sets the prices for information?

	First of all, haggle.  If that doesn't work, then enter a note that
    requests a specific item at a specific cost - chances are somebody out
    there would be willing to make you a deal.  Supply and demand will take
    care of the rest.  Besides, there will be plenty of people who will most
    likely feel sorry for you (the first few times anyway) and give it away
    for free.  Remember, there is always the corporate info-dollar reserve
    as well - chances are info-dollar banks would also spring up which could
    conceivably loan you enough info-dollars to be able to purchase whatever
    it is you need.

	Imagine an interactive want-ads section of a newspaper in which
    wanted-to-buy notes are interspersed with wanting-to-sell notes - only
    in the real time atmosphere of a notesfile.  This sort of open marketplace
    is how I envision info-stores operating.  

> I can in no way perceive the advantages of such a scheme outweighing the
> bureaucratic orgy that would result if it were ever implemented.

	We already have plenty of bureaucratic orgies (see my earlier notes
    for such examples as labor tickets, endless contract negotiations for 
    resource sharing between different organizations, allocation of equipment,
    along with fifty different processes for escalating problems through the
    corporation, etc.).  The info-market idea would help to bring "perestroika"
    to a corporate structure mired in such bureacratic red-tape by providing
    a streamlined free market transfer of information goods and services.

	Also, remember, this idea would not replace the current notesfile
    system of information distribution, it would mainly be an add-on feature
    designed to help people justify their time spent providing quality
    information good and services in the notesfiles.

> Our electronic information distribution isn't sick, it's just young.
> Education is what is needed. Don't kill it with a dose of lethal
> medicine, please!

	I never said it was sick.  Think of this idea as a vitamin pill
    to build a much stronger and more secure environment for information
    distribution.  Besides, it would provide intra-corporate entrepeneurs
    with a true challenge.

				    -davo

p.s.	These are good questions and criticisms - keep them coming!

I didn't want to jump into this fray but, I am anyway. I agree with those who
are looking at their calenders because they suspect that its 01-Apr-1990.
This is ludicrous, or maybe the word should be lucrative! 
How would info providers/sellers handle customer complaints like:
"I want my funny money back! what you advertised is not what I found in the 
package".
"You didn't tell me that before I could use your info That I would also need
the info provided by j.b. sleeze".


I can see it now, JEC has to be reworked because there are a number of new
job classifications in every organization. These jobs have to do with 
information providers. Each cost center who are involved in selling info
would need to hire accountants to keep track of credits and debits, and
the I.S. dept will be busy writing those applications to invoice etc, etc
the buyers. 

Could the sellers of info take users to DECourt because they bought the info
and then put the same info out for general usage free of charge? If not,
would the price of the info then be adjusted? Would the Legal dept then get
involved because of misuse?
All this so some noters won't feel that they are being taken advantage of?
Hell, if you feel that way, STOP providing the info. I think that what makes
our internal network of info sharing work is that it has no strings attached.
Of course you need to take things with a grain of salt sometimes depending
on who is providing the info, but that wouldn't change if you're paying for
the info. I suggest that we get off this track of "lets sell info to each other"
if DEC ever gets to that, then we ARE REALLY in trouble.

- George

Personally, I like the idea of paying for information access, but to have some
baroque accounting system to count every entry entered and bought is a HUGE
white elephant.  Personally, I might use such a system once or twice before I 
became either fed up or disgusted.   (Gee, whats behind note number 10.2?) 

On the other hand, paying for the access to notefiles could be profitable.
Charging $20 per connection or 50 cents a minute could add up.  Why we 
could be like the phone company! 8^).   

This kind of service does exist today (i.e. Reuters and the Nightly Business
Report).  Selling access to certain notes files could be quite profitable.

Of course, this would only count for paying customers,  I think charging 
other DEC groups for access is just plain counterproductive!!!

					Bob Cohen

re: .22,

> "I want my funny money back! what you advertised is not what I found in the 
> package".

    	How often do you see people asking for their money back for an
    Ed Services course, or any sort of internal product or service?  Of
    course it might happen, but it would reflect on the reputation of the
    producer of the particular information good or service in question.
    The free market is designed to allow the consumer to vote with their
    patronage (or lack thereof) to a given producer of goods and services.

> "You didn't tell me that before I could use your info That I would also need
> the info provided by j.b. sleeze".

    	Obviously a case of false advertising.  Again, don't buy something
    that doesn't contain a funny-money-back guarantee.  Also, expect to see
    a "better info-net business bureau", along with a "info consumer reports"
    spring up to help shoppers make qualified decisions.  Surely a few
    charlatans will prosper briefly at first, but soon they will be rooted
    out and the better intra-corporate info-business people will emerge.

> I can see it now, JEC has to be reworked because there are a number of new
> job classifications in every organization. These jobs have to do with 
> information providers. Each cost center who are involved in selling info
> would need to hire accountants to keep track of credits and debits, and
> the I.S. dept will be busy writing those applications to invoice etc, etc
> the buyers. 

    	Life is full of changes.  So is the free market.  I doubt if any
    major JEC changes would need to be implemented for an info-market, but
    if they were, then so what?  Futurists have long been predicting a day
    when people will need to be able to run their own businesses, and this
    is only a step in that general direction.  Either change now and be at
    the head of the crowd, or wait until later and play catch-up.

    	Besides, some of the concepts I have presented here are already
    taking place within DEC anyway (everyone in my organization already has
    to charge their time to projects and fill out labor tickets).  The only
    real difference is that this system would be fully automated and would
    allow for a free market implementation of that which is currently a
    centrally planned style of economy.

> Could the sellers of info take users to DECourt because they bought the info
> and then put the same info out for general usage free of charge? 

    	I was hoping saomeone would ask this question.  Think about the last
    course you took from Ed Services for example.  It wasn't cheap now was it?
    After the course was over, did you run out and make photo-copies of the
    hand-outs you recieved in the class?  Of course not.  If you did - then
    so what.

    	If I purchase a new vms doc set, am I going to run out and make
    photo-copies of it to distribute to everyone so they won't have to pay
    through the nose to get their own set?  Why bother.  

    	The worst case scenario is that someone decides that they are going
    to run around publishing everything "for sale" in a follow-up note for
    "free".  In this case, the producer of the product is cheated out of any
    futher profits from the sale of that item, but they did manage to sell
    at least one copy before the attack of the self-made Robin Hood.  That's
    more than can be said for the current system which offers nothing.  If
    it became a real problem, then I suppose there would need to be a DEC-
    court of some sort, but guess where you could go for a lawyer?  Why, to
    the legal info-store of course!

> If not,
> would the price of the info then be adjusted? Would the Legal dept then get
> involved because of misuse?

    	Yes, as I mentioned above, the legal department would be involved
    because everybody would conceivably be involved.  Everybody has something
    they can offer for sale on the info-market.

> All this so some noters won't feel that they are being taken advantage of?

    	I don't think too many noters really feel they are being taken
    advantage of.  The ones who do simply don't bother to provide any real
    useful info in the notesfiles.  I'm just trying to be innovative here 
    and inject some free market intra-corporate entrepeneurialism into this
    network for the reasons I've already outlined.

> Hell, if you feel that way, STOP providing the info. 

    	Thanks for the encouragement.

> I think that what makes
> our internal network of info sharing work is that it has no strings attached.

    	Are you sure you aren't just afraid of standing behind the quality
    of the information goods and services you provide?  No committments, no
    responsibilities.

> Of course you need to take things with a grain of salt sometimes depending
> on who is providing the info, but that wouldn't change if you're paying for
> the info. 

    	Exactly.  And how better to determine the quality of a given info
    provider than allowing the free market to decide?

> I suggest that we get off this track of "lets sell info to each other"
> if DEC ever gets to that, then we ARE REALLY in trouble.

    	We've been selling people, resources, and information to each
    other for years.  The way resources (including people) are presently
    bought and sold within the corporation is somewhat feudalistic in
    that resources are bought and sold like slaves or indentured servants.

    	Notesfiles and the noting environment is still young, but now that
    the potential has been recognized by management, you can expect to see it
    become formalized like everything else in the corporation.  I'm only
    trying to introduce a free market style of notesfile formalization as
    opposed to a feudalistic or communistic one.

    				   -davo

re: .24

>    	How often do you see people asking for their money back for an
>    Ed Services course, or any sort of internal product or service?  Of
>    course it might happen, but it would reflect on the reputation of the
>    producer of the particular information good or service in question.

I'm not sure of your perspective here; but I've seen this happen way to 
often; on internal courses, external courses, products, services, etc.

Yes, it *does* reflect on the reputation of the producer 8^).  Doesn't stop 
it from happening, though...

Ray

    Well done!  I'm usually a passive note-reader, adding my occasional
    two-penny-worth when I think I have some concrete knowledge or
    experience to pass on to someone with an enquiry.  I'm not technical
    and I normally steer clear of the theoretical stuff!  But this has
    really got my attention.  
    
    I'm greatly impressed with the intellectual discussion of the problems
    involved with identifying 'information' as a product, but totally
    dismayed that it's internally focussed.  Hey, you guys, we're all
    on the same side, work for the same corporation, presumably want
    to see that corporation survive, become stronger in an increasingly
    tough market, 'cos what provides profit for the corporation, provides
    us with our daily bread.   Let's remember that cross-charging is
    simply the accountants' mechanism for carving up the operations
    so they have some idea where the money's being spent and what's
    profitable and what isn't.
    
    Let's forget about charging each other and apply our brains to the
    problem of marketing information externally.  I believe that in
    the IT market of the future the INFORMATION will become as important
    as the TECHNOLOGY.  I believe that excellent technology (which we've
    always had and hopefully will continue to develop) will become the
    necessary pre-requisite just to enter the IT market.  The key to
    success will be the information (knowledge, expertise, understanding)
    about what advanced technology can do for organisational effectiveness.

         We all blithely take for granted that we can sit at a terminal
    anywhere in the world and share information across the whole
    corporation.  In many companies, information is status, to be hoarded
    and gloated over.  Information is power to be wielded for personal
    gain.  Information flows up and down hierachies not horizontally
    to those who have a need to know.  
    
    As a company, I think we vastly underestimate the enormous body
    of knowledge we possess about the impact that our kind of IT can
    have on company culture and effectiveness.  But how do we package
    that knowledge and understanding.  How do we market it?  How do
    we get customers to choose Digital as their supplier because they
    understand the value of our experience in running the kind of
    organisation that they (the customer) aspire to become??  Yes, I
    know we sell consultancy, we also run the world's biggest network.
    I'd like to hear your ideas on how we make sure we can package our
    knowledge and market it as a profitable "Information" product in
    this dawning "Information Age" all the business guru's are predicting.
    
    Shirley (in the UK)

    who_didn't_realise_until_she_started_writing_how_passionate_she_feels_about
    the_subject!!

    re 26. chefs::borretts

    Bravo ! But what is this sellable information that DEC possesses ?
    I can only think about paid access to ASKENET and SOAPBOX.
    [ although real money could be gained from SEXCETRA , I DID NOT 
    SUGGEST THAT .-) ]

    Get real . 

    We do already sell information in electric form to our customer,
    it is a part of support contracts, called DINS .
    But, it's just about the problems with our own equipment.
    
    
    re 22.

    -- I bought this junk note 123.22 for $25, only one line was worth
       reading, I want my money back !

    -- How much do you think this line was worth then ?

    -- Maybe a buck.

    -- OK , I'll send you $24 back but do you promise to forget the rest of
       the note ?

    -- Sure, but you know, one can never really be sure to forget a certain
       piece of what you know. It may pop up someday, maybe in a different
       form...

    -- OK, to give you a piece of mind, lets set a price at this residue
       memory . Ok ?

    -- Why is that ?

    -- It's information, you can use it some day.

    -- Sure , let me see, I usually forget things easily, well, lets say,
       another buck.

    -- OK, it'll be $22, where shell I sent it to ?

	I found a topic in NODEMO::MARKETING about Information Technology, and
put a reference to this topic in a reply.  Their discussion wasn't near as
lively as this one.  Let's see if anyone takes the bait!

The idea of selling information ignores the conditions under which our
market system developed.  Wealth has been defined in different ways over
the course of human history.  Land, Salt, Animals, Human Slaves,
Seashells, Glass beads, all have been the preferred medium of exchange at
one time or another.  The common characteristic of such physical bases of
wealth is that if I transfer ownership to you, I am no longer the owner,
nor do I have the right to use what I gave or sold to you.

Information is a different kind of thing.  One of the most natural
expressions is to "share information".  This points out the difference.
When I "share information" with you, we both possess it and are both
within our rights to use it.  Whether we both have the tools (both hard
and software) to make effective use of it is not part of the transaction,
but it does determine which, if either of us, can make effective use of
the information.  A Compact Disk is useless to me, I don't have an
instrument to play it on.  Knowledge of the Central Limit Theorem may be
useless to you, unless you are a mathematician or a statistician.

Market value for information varies so widely among different people,
that the seller who announces a fixed price would be cheated very often.
Many buyers would also be cheated, having paid for information that they
cannot use.

We may be able to understand the issue more clearly by looking at the
absence of information, secrecy.  The value of a secret goes to zero when
it becomes public domain.  When we share information, we automatically
reduce its "market value" although we may be increasing the capability
of each person who knows the facts, techniques, or ideas being
communicated.  The first person who buys your information has a
competitive advantage until someone else buys it too.  Thus, after the
first sale, every subsequent sale cheapens the information and the value 
of the previous purchasers' "inventory".

These differences between physical property and intellectual property
make me believe that we need to rethink the bases of exchange of
information, not blindly try to put it into the same framework as
material property.

Does this have any relevancy to this topic? I don't know, you be the
judge of how much you would be willing to pay for these "insights", given
that they have been put in the public domain and your competitive
advantage will be lost as soon as the next person after you reads this
reply.

Dick Beldin
    

      It seems we may be missing a key point concerning information sharing
    within Digital. Information is a Corporate asset. No one OWNS
    information. If Davo were responsible for a product database and his
    job went away, the database would continue to exist.
    
      As said many times in this file, we're suppose to be working as a
    team. As soon as money enters the equation, teamwork breaksdown and the
    war stories begin.
    
      Davo, your idea may work with our external customers, but please
    remember, we're a team here. Buying and selling internal information
    will be the death knell of entrepreneurship.

re: .30, etc.,

	These are excellent points (worth at least a couple of info-bucks ;^).
    This is the sort of stuff that has been racing through my head since I
    seriously started thinking about this idea late last week.  The problem
    of information duplication provides an interesting challenge to such an
    info-market in that once a given item is purchased, it can be copied
    and/or freely distributed without much problem.  Not only that, but the
    problem of plagarism of original ideas could also be prevalent in that a
    customer might buy an info-item only to turn around and resell the same
    (or slightly modified) info-item.

	Most products in any sort of industrial production system however,
    are typically mass produced such that after a certain amount of items are
    sold, the initial development costs are recouped and anything beyond that
    break-even point count towards a profit.  The problem with such a system
    is that the means of [re]production are controlled by the consumer (as
    well by the producer) of a given info-item.  The net result is that a
    producer of a given info-item can really only count on a guaranteed income
    from the first sale of a given info-item - beyond that, it becomes hard
    to control what happens to that info-item.
	
	This means that a producer must price a given info-item such that
    all development costs (along with any profits) can be realized on the
    first sale as well.  But who would pay for something that may cost far
    more than it is really worth?  Imagine having to pay for an entire
    info-item development effort when you are but one of the potential
    customers of the info-item!  This problem is one which I have agonized
    over for days as it is probably the biggest initial obstacle to a
    successful info-market implementation, but on the way home from class
    last night, I thought of an interesting solution which may solve both
    problems in one swoop.  

	The basic idea involves an automated system of rebates going to the
    initial info-item consumer (as well as follow-on consumers) such that
    the more people that purchase a given item, the less it costs each
    consumer of that item.  In addition, a percentage of each info-item
    purchase also goes to both the original info-item producer, as well as
    a tax surcharge which goes to the corporate info-dollar reserve (for
    system overhead, info-dollar loans, and other such miscelaneous activity).

	This system would serve to discourage duplications of the original
    material since each info-item consumer would receive a rebate for each
    additional info-item sold (providing a enhanced bonding between consumers
    and producer as well).  In addition, this system would also allow the
    producer to offer an item at a lower initial price as well since the
    possibility of receiving future royalties would help to recoup the
    initial development costs.  In order to implement this system however,
    the name of each consumer (not to mention the producer) of a given info-
    item must somehow be stored so that future rebates and royalties could
    be credited to the proper accounts.

	Here is a scenario showing the first four sales of a typical info-item
    given an initial info-item sale price of $100 plus an additional royalty
    of %50 of the current sale price of each additional item sold going to the
    producer, and with %10 of the current sale price of each info-item sold
    going to the Corporate info-dollar reserve, and with an automatic mark-down
    of %10 in the sale price per sale is in effect, and each subsequent info-
    item sold would supply a rebate equal to their share of the remaining %40
    of the current sale price of the item to the preceding consumer(s).


              |   Sale#1   |   Sale#2   |   Sale#3   |   Sale#4   |   Total    |
==============+============+============+============+============+============+
Sale Price    |   $100.00  |    $90.00  |    $81.00  |    $72.90  |   $343.90  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Producer      | +  $90.00  | +  $45.00  | +  $40.50  | +  $36.45  | + $211.95  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#1    | - $100.00  | +  $36.00  | +  $16.20  | +   $9.72  | -  $38.08  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#2    |            | -  $90.00  | +  $16.20  | +   $9.72  | -  $64.08  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#3    |            |            | -  $81.00  | +   $9.72  | -  $71.28  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#4    |            |            |            | -  $72.90  | -  $72.90  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Corporate Tax | +  $10.00  | +   $9.00  | +   $8.10  | +   $7.29  | +  $34.39  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+

	As you can see, the first customer takes a risk by investing $100 up
    front in the info-item, yet assuming the item is popular, then over time,
    much of this investment is returned to the initial consumer(s) in the form
    of rebates.  If you look at the total cost to the first customer (after the
    only three rebates have been calculated), it figures out to be a total of
    $38.08 - which isn't bad.  Subsequent customers also get rebates as well,
    but due to the decreased risk in purchasing an item which has already been
    "tested" on preceding consumers (and whose testimonials would possibly be
    available as replies to the sale note), then the rebates are less.

	The producer meanwhile, gets a minimum of %90 of the asking price
    (in this case $90), plus %50 of each additional sale (minus the optional
    automatic mark-down rate of %10 per sale).  In this case, the producer
    earned a total of $211.95, and this amount could conceivably be alot more
    than this given more customers.  The fact that a quality product will sell
    more items might prompt a producer to charge a lower price up front in hopes
    of making the money back later in royalties.  This would allow producers to
    offer competitive pricing and to take risks as well.

	Obviously, these rates are flexible and are only one possible way
    of providing such a rebate and royalty system, but this combination does
    seem to provide some interesting incentives to entrepeneurs.  The Corporate
    Tax rate is also flexible (as well as optional), but a nice even round
    number of %10 was used to make calculations easier (more on uses of the
    Corporate Tax in later notes).

				   -davo

p.s.	I'm still trying to develop a fair method of refunding a person's
	money if they are dissatisfied with a given info-item purchase.

re: .31, .etc,

    	Several people have mentioned that we should really be concerning
    ourselves with marketing information to the outside world (as opposed
    to internally), and I agree.  But look at it this way, what better
    test-ground can you imagine for the development of such a revolutionary
    business system than our own internal corporate network?  We are supposed
    to use what we sell, so to work out the kinks in such a system by using
    it here first could not only provide proof that it works, but would also
    be a case of selling what we use instead!  Even if no other companies were
    interested in such a system, if it could help to promote information
    transfer within our own unique corporation, then that will ultimately
    reflect in the quality of our products and services.  Either way, we win!

	As to information being a corporate assett, think of it this way:
    what if after developing this particular idea on my own, I never bothered
    to enter any of this idea as a note in this conference.  Would corporate
    "own" what was still locked in my brain?  What if instead of sharing this
    idea here I decided to publish a book about it on my own?  Would corporate
    "own" rights to that book simply because I work for this company?  Of
    course not because it has nothing to do with this company or even my job
    in this company.  Once a person volunteers information to a notesfile, I
    suppose they would lose a certain portion (if not all) of their rights
    to that idea.  Is that fair?  Is that any way to encourage people to write
    their ideas down in notesfiles?  I don't think so.  Just think about all
    of the ideas that are floating around in people's heads that will never
    be written in notesfiles simply because people are afraid they won't get
    anything out of volunteering the information.

	What I am proposing is not so much a means of being paid extra money
    (real world dollars) from ideas and information (info-items) placed in
    notesfiles, but instead a way of being credited with internal corporate
    funny-money (or info-dollars) which could then be spent internally to
    either purchase other useful information in turn, or perhaps to even be
    used towards the purchase of other such internally purchased items such
    as office equipment, or funding of pet research and/or development projects,
    or providing additional staffing needs, or most any other thing that can
    normally be purchased with internal "funny-money".

	This way, everybody wins: the information entered in notesfiles
    increases dramatically in both quality and quantity and continues to
    become digital corporate property once entered, the existing people
    who go out of their way to volunteer such information remain motivated
    along with a whole new crowd of previously disinterested people (both
    of which would begin to be rewarded for notes entries in info-dollars), 
    the corporation is provided with a form of free-market entrepeneurialism
    not easily found in most other corporations, and digital equipment
    corporation has yet one more nifty piece of software to offer for sale
    to other companies (who may also see the potential advantages to using
    a free-market information distribution system such as the info-market).

    				    -davo

    	Just for fun, I thought I'd rework the numbers in my previous example
    info-item sale (note 1024.32) slightly to see what happens.  It turns
    out that by increasing the mark-down percentage per sale, and slightly
    decreasing the producer royalty, the overall price for all consumers
    involved is leveled somewhat.  The initial info-item consumer(s) still
    get a decent return on their higher-risk investment (in the form of
    rebates if the product sells) while also enjoying the potential advantage
    of getting the information sooner than others who might choose to wait
    and buy later when it's safer (as its quality level will have been
    established over time).

    	Here is a scenario showing the first four sales of a typical info-item
    given an initial info-item sale price of $100 plus an additional royalty
    of only %40 of the current sale price of each additional item sold going
    to the producer (as opposed to %50 before), and with %10 of the current
    sale price of each info-item sold still going to the Corporate info-dollar
    reserve, and with an automatic mark-down of %20 in the sale price per
    sale is in effect, and each subsequent info-item sold supplying a rebate
    equal to their share of the remaining %50 of the current sale price of
    the item to the preceding consumer(s) (don't worry, if your totally lost
    a summary explanation follows the charts):


              |   Sale#1   |   Sale#2   |   Sale#3   |   Sale#4   |   Total    |
==============+============+============+============+============+============+
Sale Price    |   $100.00  |    $80.00  |    $64.00  |    $51.20  |   $295.20  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Producer      | +  $90.00  | +  $32.00  | +  $25.60  | +  $20.48  | + $168.08  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#1    | - $100.00  | +  $40.00  | +  $16.00  | +   $8.53  | -  $35.47  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#2    |            | -  $80.00  | +  $16.00  | +   $8.53  | -  $55.47  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#3    |            |            | -  $64.00  | +   $8.53  | -  $55.47  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Consumer#4    |            |            |            | -  $51.20  | -  $51.20  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
Overhead Tax  | +  $10.00  | +   $8.00  | +   $6.40  | +   $5.12  | +  $29.52  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+

    	Notice how the cost for each consumer has been lowered in this example
    while the first customer still makes out better than the rest?  This is
    good since they are the ones who risk getting stuck with a poor quality
    info-item as well.  Notice also that using a %20 automatic mark-down
    figure reduces the total profits to the producer (as well as taxes to the
    corporate kitty) in this four-consumer example, but by reducing the cost
    of the info-item more drastically, there is a better chance of selling
    even more info-items (and receiving even more royalties) in the long run.

    	It might also be interesting to calculate these numbers out to a larger
    customer base to see what happens as well (I only include four customers
    in the previous examples because that is all that will fit on the screen
    in my little makeshift spreadsheet).  It wouldn't be too hard to extend
    the above set of numbers out to see what a given producer and corporate
    tax collector would make if the info-item sold.  From the above example,
    we left off at Sale#4 with a current sale price of $51.20, a %40 producer
    royalty equalling $20.48, a (%40/total customers) rebate of $8.53, and a
    %10 Overhead (or Corporate) Tax of $5.12.  Continuing on with Sale#5, we
    would have:

                   Sale#5       Sale#6       Sale#7       Sale#8     SubTotal
==============+============+============+============+============+============+
Sale Price    |    $40.96  |    $32.77  |    $26.22  |    $20.98  |    $120.93 |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
%40 P Royalty | +  $16.38  | +  $13.11  | +  $10.48  | +  $8.39   | +  $48.36  |
%50/# C Rebate| +  $4.10   | +  $2.73   | +  $1.87   | +  $1.31   | +  $10.01  |
%10 O Tax     | +  $4.09   | +  $3.28   | +  $2.62   | +  $2.10   | +  $12.09  |

                   Sale#9       Sale#10      Sale#11      Sale#12    SubTotal
==============+============+============+============+============+============+
Sale Price    |    $16.78  |    $13.43  |    $10.74  |    $8.59   |    $49.54  |
--------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+
%40 P Royalty | +  $6.71   | +  $5.37   | +  $4.30   | +  $3.43   | +  $19.82  |
%50/# C Rebate| +  $0.93   | +  $0.67   | +  $0.49   | +  $0.36   | +  $2.45   |
%10 O Tax     | +  $1.68   | +  $1.34   | +  $1.07   | +  $0.86   | +  $4.95   |

    	To calculate the total for what a producer would make on selling
    say 12 info-items, simply add the above P Royalty subtotals ($48.36 +
    $19.82 = $68.18), and then add this subtotal to the previous total the
    producer had made from the first four info-items sold ($168.08) = $236.26.
    Consumer #1 also makes out pretty well, as when all of the rebates have
    been credited after the 12th info-item sold, the total cost for the info-
    item to Consumer #1 began at $100, but after the 12th info-item sale they
    only end up paying a total of $23.01.  Consumer #4 doesn't do too badly
    either as they started out by paying $51.20, and after the 12th info-item
    sale, they only end up paying a total of $38.74.
    
    	Notice that by the time the first eleven customers have already long
    since purchased a copy of the info-item, using the automatic %20 mark-down,
    the twelth customer will only need to pay $8.59 to get the same info-item.
    With such a drastic mark-down in place, it is less likely that anyone
    would be tempted to resell the same info-item.  On the contrary, they
    would only be competing with their own slice of potential royalties if
    they were to do so.  Especially if word got out that their product was
    merely a plagerized copy of the original.  This is not to say that one
    couldn't resell something; ideally such a sale would be a "value-added"
    resale in which the producer would give credit to the original producer
    and mention any modifications made so that potential customers could
    decide which info-item to purchase.

    	There are many other combinations to try here, some of which might
    even lead to even better incentives not to steal and copy quality info-
    items, as well as other sorts of better business incentives such as a
    possible provision for a money-back gurantee of some sort.  I figure that
    each producer could be allowed to play around with their own set of
    incentives when placing an info-item up for sale (maybe provide a default
    set such as the ones above and allow them to tweak it).  The only set
    percentage would be the optional corporate tax (which is perhaps better
    refered to as an "Overhead Tax"), and this percentage would most likely
    be established consistently across an a particular info-store (or perhaps
    even across the entire info-net system) in order to be fair.

    	In any case, maybe you can now better see how such an intangible item
    as information might be marketed, as well as how we could use such a system
    to promote an enhanced quality and quantity of available information
    throughout a corporation by means of a free-market (or info-market) system.

    				    -davo

1) Once a $ value is calculated for all of this 'information' then the US
   (or other) government will find a way to levy a tax on all of this
   additional 'assets'.

2) How do we handle currency value variances or exchanges between
   countries? If the US information consumers utilize significant amounts
   of information from european contries then the 'balance of trade'
   will be all out of whack!

re: .35,

>1) Once a $ value is calculated for all of this 'information' then the US
>   (or other) government will find a way to levy a tax on all of this
>   additional 'assets'.

	It depends upon how info-dollars are ultimately used.  If they
    were translated directly into individual assets (i.e. real dollars),
    then I would think that most taxes would be individual income taxes.
    If they remain entirely within the corporation (in funny-money form),
    then I'm not sure if they could be taxed at all.  As long as the
    corporation wasn't turning around and selling this information to
    the outside, then I don't think it can legally be considered an asset
    can it?

	Knowing you can always count on death and taxes, you will notice that
    I did already include the notion of a corporate (or "overhead") tax feature
    into the info-market system.  This tax feature could easily be converted
    to go to pay any sort of future "information tax" that might be levied on
    such an info-market system.  In any case, I've never yet heard of a company
    that chose mediocrity over excellence simply because of a fear of higher
    taxes on resulting profits from additional assets.

2) How do we handle currency value variances or exchanges between
   countries? If the US information consumers utilize significant amounts
   of information from european contries then the 'balance of trade'
   will be all out of whack!

	The same way we handle internal "funny-money" currency value variances
    or exchanges between other countries.  If necessary, add a few currency
    conversion routines to the software - no big deal.  Remember, the advantage
    would be that it would all be on-line already (no need for tedious asset
    tags hunts, and time consuming equipment audits, etc., etc.).

				    -davo

    I love it.  As a manager I've loved to read the management bashing
    notes, warnings and "suggestions."  Finally you've give me what
    I need to retire a rich man.
    
    Everyone at Digital seems to want to withhold info for favors, rumors,
    power, group sharing, personal advancement.  You've just normalized
    the currency.
    
    No longer need I withhold information for power, games, and punishment,
    I can now make a profit.  Go for it guys, I can see the Lamburguini
    in the driveway just as I write.
    
    	Your next Salary Review, um ah I'm not sure I can remember when,
    	or how much, um ah, ...
    
    	The manuals you wanted to get this done, lets see, I think I
    	saw them, no no, maybe they were, not that one, um ah.
    	
    	JEC? JEC?  I vaguely remember something about JEC?  If there
    	were only some way to help my memory.
    
    -kevin
    

re: .37,
    
>    Everyone at Digital seems to want to withhold info for favors, rumors,
>    power, group sharing, personal advancement.  You've just normalized
>    the currency.

	Exactly!  Imagine a world trying to operate without currency.  That's
    exactly what the present situation is like when it comes to the distribution
    of information in our electronic world.  It is utter chaos!  Most of us
    have managed to thrive on that chaos fairly well, but we have to push
    ahead in order to survive in the nineties.

	We have a chance here to establish a form of information currency
    that could revolutionize the entire way people do their business.  If
    we don't, someone else will and our entire competitive edge (our particular
    style of network computing) will lose out.

	Knowledge is power.  Knowledgable information is powerful.  Despite
    the vast array of information that currently exists in the notesfiles,
    not all of it is very powerful.  This is because we have yet to even
    scratch the surface when it comes to harnessing the potential power
    that currently exists in the hearts and minds of Digital's employees.

	The corporations that succeed in this world are those which are able
    to maximize the potential of their workforce.  The world has proven that
    the free market system is far more productive than that of planned economic
    systems.  Without incentives to perform higher quality work, the result
    is mediocrity.  The same holds true for the quality of information to be
    found on the corporate network.

	In order to succeed as a corporation, we must be powerful.  In order
    to be powerful, we must be knowledgable.  In order to be knowledgeable,
    we must have high quality information at our disposal.  In order to
    encourage that the highest possible quality of information is available,
    we must learn to reward the production of high quality information goods
    and services found in the notesfiles the same way as we have traditionally
    rewarded the production of other high quality goods and services.

				    -davo

    re .38

    I'm afraid I have to agree with the unworkability of charging for
    information and say, even, that it goes against those qualities which
    have made Digital successful.

    For example, I wrote something called the "SWS Survival Guide" -- sort 
    of a combined road-map/how-to for surviving in the field. Now, I might say,
    "This is valuable information. I should be reimbursed/rewarded for it."

    This is poppy-cock. [Euphamism!] Our goal _must_ be to share information
    as widely and freely as possible. Knowledge is more than power (sorry,
    Francis Bacon), it is empowerment.

    Do you want a Digital where people hoard and meter out knowledge in a
    quest for power, or where everyone is free to use _all_ of Digital's
    knowledge to power their individual efforts? The choice is clear.


    /Petes

    P.S. I'd certainly be glad to see some incentive program to reward people
    (like  many of us here who participate in this and other conferences) who
    go out of their way to share their knowledge above and beyond their
    everyday tasks.

    As usual, I must have overlooked the obvious but aren't there already
    people making mega(real)bucks on selling information.

    What are all these videotext services all about ?

    DEC does provide lots of platforms ( horrible term for a VAX/VMS and
    VAX P.S.I. + VTX or customer application) for these services.

    There are some rather impressive clusters on both sides on the pond
    doing nothing but selling information and providing massaging.

    							wlodek

    
    Ref: .41
    
    Keeping in the spirit of growing this great idea, I suggest having
    symbols that each of us would wear on our collars: a little car, a top
    hat, a thimble, etc., putting real meaning into the struggle. ;-}
    

	I'm not talking about terminating anybody, but if we insist on
    running this electronic world like prehistoric cave-people, then we
    will all eventually starve together from information deprivation in
    a wonderfully equal sort of way - how utopian!  Hasn't anyone ever
    wondered that with all of our network strength, why we can't seem to
    get organized?  It is because we are all still at the hunter-gatherer
    stages in our electronic evolution when it comes to locating quality
    information in the notesfiles.

	I am not talking about real money any more than I am talking about
    the real world.  This is an electronic world we live in.  We need an
    electronic form of civilization.  We need electronic forms of government
    and electronic forms of welfare to help those who cannot seem to make
    their electronic ends meet.  Above all, we need to get our electronic
    act together, and it isn't going to happen sitting in this cave waiting
    for information to magically appear in front of our eyes.  We need an
    electronic free market system with an electronic currency to provide
    the necessary incentives with which to build an electronic civilization.

	I have already outlined a few ways in which we might establish such
    an electronic currency, but I see that I have yet to succeed in convincing
    very many people *why* we need to do this.  The reason is because we
    in the electronic world are still barely out of our caves as far as
    civilization goes.  Other more advanced electronic tribes are off building
    castles (restricted notesfiles) from which their information kingdoms
    are at least somewhat protected from the rest of the world, but without an
    electronic form of currency, we are all but peasants who are subsisting
    in a period of dark ages in information age history.  Castles cannot
    protect people from starvation - only a healthy economic system of free
    trade and mercantilism can do that.  This is what the info-market will
    need to do for our network notesfiles.

				   -davo

    I would submit that instead of running the electronic world like
    prehistoric cave-people, following the suggestion of considering
    information a commodity to buy and sell is trying to run the electronic
    world like an 18th century pin factory.
    
    Applause for the effort and thought put into the idea, however.
    But in my opinion it is sort of a desperate attempt to maintain
    old heirarchy by preserving information as the basis of power.
    Unhappily, such effort is very typical of our frequent attempts
    to devise elegant solutions to the wrong problem.

    John H.

re .43

>       I'm not talking about terminating anybody, but if we insist on
>   running this electronic world like prehistoric cave-people, then we
>   will all eventually starve together from information deprivation in
>   a wonderfully equal sort of way - how utopian!  Hasn't anyone ever
>   wondered that with all of our network strength, why we can't seem to
>   get organized?  It is because we are all still at the hunter-gatherer
>   stages in our electronic evolution when it comes to locating >>quality
>   information in the notesfiles.<<

The problem is not locating quality information in notes files. The problem is
locating ANYTHING. I've been around DEC long enough that I can find out just
about anything from anyone if I have to. My solution to help others was to
write the Survival Guide (see 817.*). This is a solution that is inexpensive,
elegant, benefits everyone, and is good for Digital.

Personally, I think K.O. should give me a bonus. But do I think that I should
get a royalty for every copy of the Survival Guide someone prints? NO WAY.

>       I am not talking about real money any more than I am talking about
>   the real world.  This is an electronic world we live in.  We need an
>   electronic form of civilization.  We need electronic forms of government
>   and electronic forms of welfare to help those who cannot seem to make
>   their electronic ends meet.  Above all, we need to get our electronic
>   act together, and it isn't going to happen sitting in this cave waiting
>   for information to magically appear in front of our eyes....

Basically O.K. so far.

>                                                            ...  We need an
>   electronic free market system with an electronic currency to provide
>   the necessary incentives with which to build an electronic civilization.

Look, let's be blunt. There is _no_ incentives program of any kind that touches
more than a thimble-full of Digital employees every year. If that's a problem,
let's work on it.

The reason we are in the electronic dark ages is because management runs
Digital by papers and charts. We, who Note here, are already part of the
enlightenment.

>       I have already outlined a few ways in which we might establish such
>   an electronic currency, but I see that I have yet to succeed in convincing
>   very many people *why* we need to do this.  The reason is because we
>   in the electronic world are still barely out of our caves as far as
>   civilization goes.  Other more advanced electronic tribes are off building
>   castles (restricted notesfiles) from which their information kingdoms
>   are at least somewhat protected from the rest of the world, but without an
>   electronic form of currency, we are all but peasants who are subsisting
>   in a period of dark ages in information age history.  Castles cannot
>   protect people from starvation - only a healthy economic system of free
>   trade and mercantilism can do that.  This is what the info-market will
>   need to do for our network notesfiles.

Charging and rewarding are two different things. You don't reward people by
charging the people they've helped. You reward people by _rewarding_ them.

As for the tribes building information forts, their castles will be the first
to fall. We may be in caves, but at least we're all trying to survive together
and there's no charge for admission at the mouth of the cave.

Build castles? You get fiefdoms. We've got more than enough of those already.
And I wouldn't pay admission to anyone's "castle," whether cheap or dear.

/Peters

re: .45,

> The problem is not locating quality information in notes files. The problem is
> locating ANYTHING. I've been around DEC long enough that I can find out just
> about anything from anyone if I have to. My solution to help others was to
> write the Survival Guide (see 817.*). This is a solution that is inexpensive,
> elegant, benefits everyone, and is good for Digital.

	I think that's great!  I imagine something like that would probably
    sell quite well in an info-market.

> Personally, I think K.O. should give me a bonus. But do I think that I should
> get a royalty for every copy of the Survival Guide someone prints? NO WAY.

	Wait a minute, you want a bonus from Ken Olsen, but not a penny from
    the people who used your product?  Why should Ken have to pay for something
    he may or may not need?

> Look, let's be blunt. There is _no_ incentives program of any kind that touches
> more than a thimble-full of Digital employees every year. If that's a problem,
> let's work on it.

	Ok, great!

> The reason we are in the electronic dark ages is because management runs
> Digital by papers and charts. We, who Note here, are already part of the
> enlightenment.

	Exactly!  That's why we may just be able to offer the world a solution
    to the problem of managing information effectively and profitably!  If we
    can't do this, then all of our ideas might just as well be written on the
    outside walls of our corporation (like so much graffiti) for anyong who
    might happen upon them.

> Charging and rewarding are two different things. You don't reward people by
> charging the people they've helped. You reward people by _rewarding_ them.

	Right!  Exactly!  Reward _them_ - the people who did the helping!
    The info-market *directly* rewards a person for helping another person.
    Once helped, this person may then go and help someone else and be rewarded
    by them as well!  The Corporate Tax could be used to set up an info-market
    welfare system, which could then help the needy by supplying them with
    funds to get started in such an environment.  Info-market banks would
    surely spring up as well to loan people info-dollars when they needed
    them as well.

	Just think of the freedom you would have in such a system!  Freedom
    to pursue any sort of entrepeneurial project that you feel might succeed,
    along with the freedom to actually try the idea out in a free market
    environment!  Can you imagine all of the different places and things
    that would instantly spring up in such an environment?  I can't even
    begin to conceive of it all by myself (and please don't expect me to),
    but you can bet that it would be wonderful!

	If we hurry, we could even launch the idea in time for DECWORLD '90!
    Imagine A REAL DECWORLD!  A collection of complete computer civlizations!
    All built inside our computer network by DEC employees (or their electronic
    personas anyway) using free market economic principles.  A place where
    each of us could have our own businesses selling computer ideas, programs,
    newer and better programs, and on top of it all - we'd be living the
    entire experience!  It would be unbeleiveable!  People would just have
    to get in on it!  It would hook more people on DEC equipment than anything!

> As for the tribes building information forts, their castles will be the first
> to fall. We may be in caves, but at least we're all trying to survive together
> and there's no charge for admission at the mouth of the cave.

> Build castles? You get fiefdoms. We've got more than enough of those already.
> And I wouldn't pay admission to anyone's "castle," whether cheap or dear.

	Oh, but I think you missed the castle analogy (I don't blame you,
    I've been tossing so many analogies around lately - sorry), the castle
    is analogous to a "restricted notesfile" where information is somewhat
    more protected as long as you "belong" to the fiefdom.  Unrestricted
    notesfiles, on the other hand, are more analogous to caves dwellings,
    or straw huts, in that they provide little or no protection for one's
    information treasures.

	The point I was trying to make is that neither restricted notesfiles
    (castles) nor unrestricted notesfiles (villages) will ever be able to 
    adequately feed the information-starved people of the computer world on
    their own.  We need to implement a form of *mercantilism* in order to
    unify and increase the power and monetary wealth of our computer world
    and emerge from the dark ages.

				   -davo

    Interesting and thought-provoking.  However, as a 4.5 year reader slash
    participant in lots of (mostly public) VAXnotes conferences, I've given 
    up on them except as a look into the past.
    
    A large problem with McClure's tongue-in-cheek idea is that some
    information is only worth something at a specific time.  what would you
    pay me for a hot tip on XMI bus characteristics ?  So there would have
    to be an established information value depreciation schedule....
    
    No, for me, VAXnotes is virtually useless to me in one large area of my
    job - staying ahead of announced products in order to help large
    resellers plan their Digital product mix up to two years in advance.
    Due to fearfulness and official information hoarding policies, this
    note would have to be SET HIDDEN by the moderators should I slip and
    mention an unannounced product name, even by its internal name !  And
    this charging-for-information idea would only serve to shut down
    whatever information flow there is.  Sort of like Edu Services, who are
    great at established products, but slow to respond to brand new
    technology.  I want to attend an Edu Services class on X Terminals 
    and Imaging next week.  At probably $1500 cross-charged to my cost center, 
    IF there were such a class, which there isn't... Wish me luck.
    
    Karl Moeller SWS Consultant TUO
    

re: .47,
    
>    A large problem with McClure's tongue-in-cheek idea is that some
>    information is only worth something at a specific time.  what would you
>    pay me for a hot tip on XMI bus characteristics ?  So there would have
>    to be an established information value depreciation schedule....

	Uh, ahem...it's "McLure".  Thanks.  Otherwise, you'll get me mixed-up
    with David E. McClure over in MR01.  Just call me "davo", it's easier.

	Anyway, I'm not sure how accurate of a depreciation schedule you
    would want, but I suggested a few simple features that could be tailored
    by each info-item producer (and/or info-store manager or corporate body
    as in the case of the overhead tax rate..):

	1:  Producer royalty percentage.

*	2:  Mark-down percentage (based on total quantity sold).

	3:  Rebate percentage (shared by all preceding customers).

	4:  Overhead Tax (for info-store maintenance and/or Corporate kitty).
	
	I marked #2 because it sounded like what tyou were looking for.
    Check the sample note (info-item) transaction histories (notes 1024.32
    and 1024.34).  There is something I call the automatic mark-down which is
    in effect for both of these examples.  The first example (1024.32) has
    the info-item decrease in price at a rate of %10 (meaning that each time
    somebody purchases a copy of the info-item, the price of the info-item is
    automatically marked-down by %10) and shows what would happen if 4 copies
    were sold.  The second example (1024.34) uses a %20 mark-down and is
    calculated out with complete figures for an info-item which sold 12 copies.
    Maybe a time-based mark-down rate would be nice to have as well.

>    No, for me, VAXnotes is virtually useless to me in one large area of my
>    job - staying ahead of announced products in order to help large
>    resellers plan their Digital product mix up to two years in advance.
>    Due to fearfulness and official information hoarding policies, this
>    note would have to be SET HIDDEN by the moderators should I slip and
>    mention an unannounced product name, even by its internal name !  And

	Well, there could be a way of reviewing material before it went
    out for sale so as to get an official "Good DECkeeping Seal".  In addition,
    like any other group would insure the quality of their own products,
    quality assurance reviews could take place for each info-item for things
    that involved larger purchases.  The costs of the quality review would
    simply be entered into the price of the info-item.

>    this charging-for-information idea would only serve to shut down
>    whatever information flow there is.  

	You would rather see everything hidden in restricted notesfiles?

>    Sort of like Edu Services, who are
>    great at established products, but slow to respond to brand new
>    technology.  I want to attend an Edu Services class on X Terminals 
>    and Imaging next week.  At probably $1500 cross-charged to my cost center, 
>    IF there were such a class, which there isn't... Wish me luck.
 
	Imagine being able to compete with Ed Services in supplying
    quality courseware!

re .46

[More relevent comments in 1018.*]

>    I think that's [creating the Survival Guide] is great!  I imagine
>    something like that would probably sell quite well in an info-market.

You see, I would prefer being rewarded at raise time or (dream on) incentive
program time for "doing the right thing." If you want to pay my cost center
to print you copies and do a one-hour seminar, then we can work a deal -- but
that's a separate issue.

>> Personally, I think K.O. should give me a bonus. But do I think that I should
>> get a royalty for every copy of the Survival Guide someone prints? NO WAY.
>
>	Wait a minute, you want a bonus from Ken Olsen, but not a penny from
>   the people who used your product?  Why should Ken have to pay for something
>   he may or may not need?

It's not a question of what Ken needs personally, it's what Digital needs.
Helping people do their jobs better helps them directly, indirectly helps
others, and so on, and so on.

What I am really trying to fight is the attitude of "If it takes X effort to
do your job, helping no other area within Digital, and it takes 101%(X) effort
to do something everyone can use, just do X because you're not being paid to
help anyone else."

Aha, your eyes twinkle, saying, "That's the whole point. This way you _would_
be paid to help everyone else!"

I'm just not as sanguine as you are about the prospects for what you propose
bringing the results you envision.

Let's say my Guide is wonderful, everyone wants one, and I make lots of
funny-money for my cost center. Let's say my Guide sucks, but I make sure only
_I_ have the relevent information, even if its quality is suspect. I make even
more funny-money for my cost center, making management even happier. [In any
event, the salary pot was apportioned at the beginning of the year, so ther's
no monetary benefit to me or my co-workers.]

And God help the person starting a group of new hires. They'll soon be in
info-market third-world-debt.

What you are creating, in fact, is yet another metric that management can use
to quantify their organization's "contribution" to Digital. And the guy/gal
with the biggest number wins.



You see, I think all the information we need is already out there. We need to
make it more freely accessible and available for Digital to compete against
its rivals.

What we need is some vision along with the bean-counting. No matter how well
tuned the metrics are, there is no escape from the penalties of bad management.



/Peters

	Well, I've tortured you all for a week now pounding away at you
    with this info-market idea over and over.  The funny thing is that
    the more valid reasons I supply for selling information in notesfiles,
    the more I contradict myself.  After all, here I am racking my brains
    on this idea, working late and losing sleep, when I am doing it all
    for nothing (as usual) which runs counter to the need for an incentive.

	I mean, sure I work for DEC and have a modest salary, so it's
    not for nothing, but I didn't have to do any of this (I'm sure many
    of you by now would have rather that I didn't bother ;^).  Anyway,
    perhaps the best way to prove my point is to simply shut-up and
    quietly disappear as some have already hinted I should do.

	One less voice, one less volunteer, one less source of information.
    Like George Maiweski once said in another notesfile:





			       *          *
				\	 /
				 \      /
				  \    /

			 * ------  POOF! ------ *

				  /    \
				 /      \
				/        \
			       *          *




re: .49,

	But before I go, one more reply (I can quit anytime - really I can ;^)

>>> Personally, I think K.O. should give me a bonus. But do I think that I should
>>> get a royalty for every copy of the Survival Guide someone prints? NO WAY.
>>
>>	Wait a minute, you want a bonus from Ken Olsen, but not a penny from
>>   the people who used your product?  Why should Ken have to pay for something
>>   he may or may not need?
>
>It's not a question of what Ken needs personally, it's what Digital needs.
>Helping people do their jobs better helps them directly, indirectly helps
>others, and so on, and so on.

	Ah, but now you are falling into the "we know what you need better
    than you do" trap.  Whenever you try to second guess a market without
    some darn good test marketing to back you up, you can really flop big
    (even sometimes with test marketing you can still flop big).  Of course,
    there are the usual cases of dumb-luck and/or beginner's luck, but
    these are rare.

	Not to discount your book any, but how do you really know that it
    is helping anybody?  How would you find out?

> What I am really trying to fight is the attitude of "If it takes X effort to
> do your job, helping no other area within Digital, and it takes 101%(X) effort
> to do something everyone can use, just do X because you're not being paid to
> help anyone else."

	Ok, I'll join you in this fight.

> Aha, your eyes twinkle, saying, "That's the whole point. This way you _would_
> be paid to help everyone else!"

	Twinkle twinkle!...

> I'm just not as sanguine as you are about the prospects for what you propose
> bringing the results you envision.

> Let's say my Guide is wonderful, everyone wants one, and I make lots of
> funny-money for my cost center. Let's say my Guide sucks, but I make sure only
> _I_ have the relevent information, even if its quality is suspect. I make even
> more funny-money for my cost center, making management even happier. [In any
> event, the salary pot was apportioned at the beginning of the year, so ther's
> no monetary benefit to me or my co-workers.]

	Ok, well you're talking about cost sin-ters now (note misspelling ;^).
    I have my own beefs with the way cost centers apportion money to groups,
    but that doesn't really have anything to do with the info-market idea
    (in which case info-dollars go to individuals and would have no direct
    bearing on cost centers whatsoever).

> And God help the person starting a group of new hires. They'll soon be in
> info-market third-world-debt.

	Corporate Info-loans (welfare) would be available to the poor.

> What you are creating, in fact, is yet another metric that management can use
> to quantify their organization's "contribution" to Digital. And the guy/gal
> with the biggest number wins.

	But how would you suggest we measure anything?  Should corporate
    simply toss all the money in the air and see where it falls?  The nice
    thing about this system is that it would measure itself.  If you make
    100,000 info-dollars on info-items in a given quarter, then that is a
    measurement in itself (you didn't need a bean-counter to tell you that).

> You see, I think all the information we need is already out there. We need to
> make it more freely accessible and available for Digital to compete against
> its rivals.

	We need to do alot of things.  Equitably motivating individuals to
    do those things is the tricky part.  Information may be out there, but
    it is never enough.  Also, information typically has a short life-span.
    I come from the laser-disc world of IVIS (my first job at DEC was as a
    programmer for Sales Training IVIS courses) and we found out the hard way
    that there are certain types of information that change so fast that
    by the time you produce the laser disc, the material is obsolete (Sales
    information being one of them).

> What we need is some vision along with the bean-counting. No matter how well
> tuned the metrics are, there is no escape from the penalties of bad management.

	I claim my info-market idea is a good vision.  I have yet to hear
    any others but I am open to suggestions...

				   -davo

    re: .27
    > But what is this sellable information that DEC possesses?
    
    Information about how a networked organisation operates.  How do
    you manage an organisation with freely available info (like notes?).
     As an example, in strictly hierarchical companies, information
    flows up and down the line.  Individuals get the vast majority of
    the information they need to do their jobs from their boss.  In
    Digital this is usually not the case.  People often get very little
    of their job needed information from their boss, they get it from
    their peers in their own function and in other functions.  They
    get "people management" (DEC philosophy, JP&R's, etc) from their
    immediate manager.  We, in theory at least, understand how to run
    this sort of organisation.  Structures are getting flatter, more
    people are working remotely from their manager.  Technology allows
    us to have engineers working on the same project on both sides of
    the Atlantic!  All of these examples are about the effect that
    technology has on the effectiveness on organisations.  We should
    be the world's experts.
    
    re: note several back on passing ownership of information from (a)
    to (b)
    
    People don't buy books for the paper and card content, they buy
    them for the information contained therein!  That's the kind of
    knowledge product I'm talking about.  Yes, the more 'information
    packages' (books)one sells the more the information becomes 'common
    knowledge'.  But hopefully by then you've made a profit from the
    original book and have written the next edition!  And also, if one's
    educated the customers about how to run an effective organisation
    using networked technology, then one is also increasing the sales
    of the technology.
    
    re:46
    
    >You don't reward people by charging the people they've helped.
    
    Of course you do!  At least in a market environment you do.  That's
    what consultants do - charge for providing information to help you
    run your business better.
    
    Sorry, you're right - in the example of a Survival guide for Digital
    people, you don't charge the recipient.  But in the end the reality
    is that someone pays for everything - it may be that you pay with
    your personal time; Digital pays with system time and printing costs,
    etc.  But producing and marketing anything COSTS, and someone PAYS.
    I'm interested in hearing noters views on how you cost the kind
    of organisational effectiveness knowledge I'm referring to and how
    you market it as a valuable item in the market place.
    
    re: .49
    
    >You see I think all the information we need is already out there.
     We need to make it freely accessible and available for Digital
    to compete against its rivals!
    
    Yes, yes, yes.  I believe too that there's an amazing amount of
    knowledge sitting in the brains of individuals and groups in Digital
    that could provide the basis for a 'knowledge product' which would
    be of value to customers.  How do we tap into it?  How do we turn
    it into organisational learning instead of just individual learning.
    How would we market it and what would the competition do?  I believe
    that Digital has is NOW.  We're already in the Information Age.
     Our customers are only just beginning to get a glimpse of what
    that means - in effect we're already living their future!  We should
    be selling them our expertise in understanding what technology does
    to an organisation, its business, its employees, but most of all
    how to harness it for greater effectiveness!
    
    re: 43
    >Hasn't anyone ever wondered that with all of our network strength,
    why we can't seem to get organised?
    
    Perhaps it's because we're not "organised" that we have our network
    strength.  Perhaps if we were "organised" our people wouldn't come
    up with so many creative ideas.  A company that's "organised" attracts
    different sorts of people to the kind I see around me, who are in
    the main striving to "do the right thing".  "organised" companies
    are more likely to keep "organised" people.  We need people who
    are innovative, creative, and above all, who can keep achieving
    in a constantly changing, moving, developing organisation.  Maybe
    I just have a hangup with the work "organised" but to me it smacks
    of rules, bureaucracy, stiffling invention, lack of creativity,
    etc.
    
    Do you noters out there find time to contribute because you "organise"
    your time to allow space for logging into notes?  Or do you make
    the time in a somewhat disorganised life, because it keeps your
    brain alive, keeps you stimulated, aids your motivation, to share
    your feelings and information with other people across the world??
    
    Shirley
    ("The world needs messy people, otherwise the neat people would take
    over!")

	...beckoned the tribal cheitan, and with that, Igor of the Koputar 
    people turned and set out once again on a quest in search of info (the
    wild beast which roamed the Koputar lands).  Igor was a good hunter and
    the tribe had come to rely on his good hunting skills for survival.

	It had been an exceptionally lean winter this year, and the tribe
    was getting very hungry for fresh new info meat, yet supplies of quality
    info meat were becoming fewer and farther between.  To make matters worse,
    there were far more tribes in the area now all competing for the same
    scarce supply of info meat.

	It seemed like days had passed before Igor was able to monitor the
    scent of an info beast.  The scent was feint, but nevertheless, Igor
    dilligently followed the trail of the info.  It was a long journey this
    time, as the trail carried Igor far beyond the land known to his tribe.
    His hunger for info meat drove him on further.

	Finally, Igor awoke one morning and found himself surrounded by
    another tribe of Koputar people.  This tribe was leary of Igor and he
    cowered in fear as they all bickered amongst each other over what to do
    with the intruder.  Some felt that he was welcomed in their land, yet
    others knew that he was after their own info beast, and thought they
    should teach him a lesson for trying to steal their info.

	Lucky for Igor, however, he had not yet found and killed the info 
    beast, so he was guilty of no crime other than hunting on foreign soil.
    After a long lecture and many subsequent thank-you's, Igor was again
    on his way.  By now Igor had lost the scent of the info beast, and was
    almost sure that he himself was lost as well.  He decided to head out in
    the general direction of what he thought was his home tribe.

	Another day passed and still no sign of either his tribe, or of the
    info beast.  He was tired and very weak from going so long without info,
    but he kept going.  Finally, he could go no further.  He stopped and fell
    on his side, bumping a shrub on the way.  As he lay there preparing to
    die, Igor noticed that he seemed to be bleeding as reddish fluid was
    running all over his arm.  He mustered enough energy to lift his arm and 
    he began to lick the blood away.  This blood was strange - it tasted so
    good.  He knew he must be hungry if his own blood tasted so good.  He
    stopped and thought for a momment.

	Suddenly, Igor took another look at the shrub he had bumped into
    and noticed that strange berries were growing on the shrub.  This was truly
    strange to see berries growing in the middle of winter!  He stood up and
    stuffed as many berries into his mouth as he could eat, and then put the
    rest into a large sack he had brought along.  Igor then resumed his hunt,
    finding all sorts of other nuts and fruits along the way.  Igor began to
    notice that this land was slightly warmer than the land of his tribe -
    this explained the unusual growth of the berries and nuts in winter.
    
	Eventually, Igor found his way to the edge of a tall cliff, and
    peered out over the land in search of his tribe.  He didn't see anything
    he recognized, but he did notice a village of some sort in the valley.
    Igor debated with himself for awhile, then decided that he was lost and
    that his only hope would be to ask for directions.  Igor then began the
    long trek down the hill into the village.

	Igor hiked down out of the hills and approached the village which he
    had spotted from up on the cliff.  There was alot of activity in this
    village as people were crowded into groups and all seemed to be yelling
    things to each other.  Igor spotted a man with a large hunk of info beast
    on a tree stump in front of him, and Igor, remembering his mission, lurched
    forward and grabbed ahold of the info beast.  The man behind the stump
    growled and threatened to beat Igor with a club.  Igor did not argue with
    the man, as he quickly remembered that he was no longer in his own tribe.
    Another couple of men quickly surrounded Igor and they all seemed to be
    very suspiscious of his motives.

	In an attempt to appease the villagers, Igor quickly opened his
    pouch of nuts and fruits.  The glares turned to inquisitive glances as
    they and others began to size up Igor's collection of nuts and fruits.
    The man behind the stump picked-up a sharp rock and began to rip away
    at his info beast.  The man eventually severed a modest chunk of meat
    and handed it to Igor motioning to his pouch of nuts and fruits.  Igor,
    uncertain of what to do, backed away, and the villager's eyes all darted
    back to the man with the info beast.  The man grumbled something, lifted
    his eyebrows and then began cutting another chunk of info meat, this time
    much larger than before.  The man then held out both chunks of meat to
    Igor.  Again Igor backed away in fear of the man and his fellow villagers.
    The man finally dropped both pieces of meat onto the stump, and then
    picked-up an entire leg of info beast and held it out towards Igor.

	All eyes were on Igor at this point.  It was as though he was expected
    to take this meat from the man, even though he knew better.  Igor slowly
    reached forward and touched the leg of info beast.  The man then barked
    something softly, pointing at Igor's pouch of nuts and berries.  It finally
    occurred to Igor that the man wanted to trade his leg of meat for Igor's
    nuts and berries.  Igor responded by emptying the contents of his pouch
    onto the stump.  Everyone in the village returned to the business of
    trading wares, and Igor stepped back with his new leg of meat to watch
    as an activity he had never before witnessed took place in front of his
    eyes.

	Igor was amazed that there were so many people - all looked a little
    bit different from the next, and all carried something to the market to
    trade for something else.  There were so many things that Igor never even
    knew existed that were being traded back and forth in this marketplace.
    He saw lots of strange shiny rocks being traded for meat, and other items,
    along with furs being traded for strange birds and fish which he had also
    never seen.  Igor wondered what it was about this village that made all
    of these people so productive?  Where were the starving groups who waited
    for the hunters?  Where were the lazy slobs who never lifted a finger
    until it was time to eat?

	The problem was that in Igor's village, everything was communal
    property.  The strong hunted and the rest either gathered fruits and
    nuts when weather permitted, or stayed at home and waited for the
    hunters to return with food.  There was little cooperation with the
    other tribes in Igor's land because any trading of goods was a lengthy
    ceremony involving the heads of each tribe meeting at the sacred
    conference cave, along with all sorts of associated religious dances
    and rituals.  A marketplace such as this with all sorts of individuals
    trading goods freely with one another apparently unbeknownst to the
    their tribal cheifs would be unheard of.

	Igor was tempted to stay and live in this village with such a
    modern system of free trade, but he felt badly about his fellow Koputar
    people who were all probably starving to death by now, so he began the
    trek back in search of his village.  Igor vowed that once he returned,
    he would try and convince the elders of the Koputar tribes to loosen-up
    their taboos about free trade and to allow people of the various tribes
    in the area to trade freely with one another in such a marketplace as
    well, for Igor knew well that this sort of free trade was going to be
    the key to the survival of the tribe in years to come.

    re .50

    Well, I haven't said this before, but the other reason I've maintained
    that information should be free (from my perspective) is that in delivering
    services, for example, we have to earn double our expenses to help defray
    the cost of "up north" folks.

    I think info-market is a positive vision. There's nothing wrong with the
    idea that it should be easier for people or groups to be more
    entrepreneurial in providing information services internally or
    externally (VTX may be a better choice than Notes). But I think,
    culturally, that's it's just better that we all share our knowledge to
    the best of our abilities.

>   Not to discount your book any, but how do you really know that it
>   is helping anybody?  How would you find out?

    My unsolicited distribution list covers every U.S. area plus Europe. I
    am thinking of putting a survey form in the the next one. I always get a
    chuckle from the "Hi, I'm in Peoria, my manager brought back a copy of
    this manual you wrote from a meeting in Chicago, can you tell me where
    to get fresh copies for our group?" It makes up, sort of, for some of
    the other things that have happenned over the last year.

    I'm not sure what the code is on breaking the "Don't expend any extra
    effort, no matter how small, to do the right thing for DEC." I think it's
    to replace the manager who says that. 

    Actually, I've always liked IVIS.  I think I have a good analogy for you.
    I used to be a PC bigot (hated them, considered them crude and primitive
    artifacts). Well, now I have a T1000 laptop that I'm very fond of and lavish
    with accessories/enhancements. Why? Because, to me, PCs were a concept
    waiting for LAPTOP technology to happen. IVIS was/is a concept waiting for
    writeable-optical disk to happen. (If music CDs are here, can video discs
    be far behind?)

    Davo,

    you've convinced me, I'll send nuts and fruits !!


    					wlodek

    	Imagine teaching a course to an infinitely large classroom and an
    infinitely large number of students.  Imagine a course which could deliver
    each lecture, and answer each question to only those who really feel they
    need that particular information.  Imagine developing a course in which
    there is never a problem locating subject matter experts!

    	As a student, you could pick and choose which knowledge units you
    want to learn, and only pay for those portions of the course that you
    consume.  Imagine taking a class where it didn't matter if you were late!
    In this class, you could waltz in anytime this century and get the same
    information.  Imagine taking a course in which *you* decide that you need
    to learn the material, and *you* pay for your own learning (as opposed to
    needing to approach your cost center manager everytime for "financial aid").
    Imagine taking a class where you didn't have to fight Bedford traffic to
    take it!

    	Ideally, the teacher (or perhaps others who were formerly students)
    would be on-hand to answer your questions whenever you decided to join in.
    The reason they would be on-hand is because there is info-money in it for
    them and they would be motivated to join in.  Open notesfile discussions
    would typically take place as usual, with the occasional info-item sprinkled
    in here and there and sold according to demand as the market dictates.

    	On-line course instruction is just one more possible application of
    the info-market idea.  There are many others.  Almost anything in the
    corporate world could be "sold" using the info-market.  Things which do
    not lend themselves to being on-line could have tickets or coupons
    associated with them which are on-line.  Each ticket could have a unique
    number or id which could be verified against the consumer list of the
    info-item in question.  Many corporate benefits could be implemented by
    simply distributing info-dollars to employees to be spent internally in
    the info-market.

    	The info-market economy would be based upon the individual contributor.
    To encourage info-market consumerism, each individual contributor could
    recieve an allowance of a certain token amount of info-dollars each week
    (from the corporate reserve netted from info-item sales tax revenue).  In
    addition to this allowance, the sales force could be given sales commisions
    in info-dollars (to implement the "reverse engineering" of a sale from the
    satisfied customer back to the source of the satisfaction).  The resulting
    info-market inflation rate would help reduce the real cost of info-items
    to consumers over time (thereby reducing the need for the "automatic mark-
    down" feature mentioned previously).

    	Loans could be made available to those who need them, banks and other
    "private" info-market lending institutions could spring up to provide such
    services.  A simple feature of info-dollar transfer of funds from one
    account to another would be all that was really needed, the rest could be
    handled by auxiliary programs.  The Corporate Reserve could provide
    additional info-dollars (welfare) to the newcomers to the info-market
    (new-hires and/or those just getting started).

    	All that would be neccesary to do all of these things are the simple
    additions of the following features to VAXnotes:

Notes> BUY <note#>
Notes> SET NOTE/PRICE=<$x>/PACKAGE_FILE=<filename>
Notes> SEND/AMOUNT=<$x> TO <nodename::username>
Notes> SHOW NOTE (optional: could display package information if not automatic)
Notes> SHOW PROFILE (would display current info-dollar account information)

    	Obviously, other features might also be added, and there would need
    to be a good deal of underlying development in order to implement the
    on-line transaction processing abilities needed, but these basic user
    commands would be all of the additional VAXnotes commands that the
    corporate employee would really need to learn in order to utilize the
    theoretical info-market system.

    				    -davo

    
    How about...
    
    	Notes> SET SEEN /AUTHOR=fubar
    

    So they killed Igor and took his nuts and berries ...
    
    Then Igor went to Digital school and he learned that offering up
    nuts and berries and expecting a reward only gets you beaten with
    clubs.
    
    -kevin
    
    P.S.  I might have in fact paid to see .56.

Imagine a place where people can tap the expertise of a wide-range of people
for a problem or about a subject area without physical access to the expert.

When the person has a problem to solve or the person wants to or needs to
explore a particular subject area.   

Without requiring approval for an additional allotment of infonuts or 
without requiring the person to read a 200,000 line price of info donuts on sale.
without requiring the person to understand the ins and outs of basic 
accounting (I mean how much do my ideas really depreciate over time??)

Imagine a world where people are building systems for paying customers and
not obtuse unusable systems for funny money.
 
Where people provide information to one another because it helps solve a 
problem or make a product, whether it's that persons job or not.
   
The fact that these notes files are so popular seems to indicate that
peeple are willing to contribute to them without charge.

For me, the bottom line is : Please don't intefere with the way I work.
				 

						Bob Cohen

What I believe Davo is actually advocating is that DEC get into the INFO
base market and supply our customers with the info THEY need via notes.
However, he wants US to test the system by being subjected to the same
charges etc, etc.

This is like the ELF V2 people saying "We want to sell ELF to our customers
so, we will subject our employees to it for a test." We all know how well
thats working don't we!

re: .58,

> Imagine a place where people can tap the expertise of a wide-range of people
> for a problem or about a subject area without physical access to the expert.

   	Imagine the same situation only with many more experts volunteering
    their expertise.

> When the person has a problem to solve or the person wants to or needs to
> explore a particular subject area.   
> Without requiring approval for an additional allotment of infonuts or 

    	Your "infonuts" are yours alone to spend.  You can make more by
    earning them, getting a loan, or waiting for next week's allowance.
    Chances are, you might be lucky enough to continue to get information
    for free anyway (as not all notes would be for sale).

> without requiring the person to read a 200,000 line price of info donuts on sale.
    	Simply read notes as you currently would to determine prices of
    various info-items.  While you're at it, read reviews of the information
    from other consumers of that information (something you don't see in a
    normal price listing).

> without requiring the person to understand the ins and outs of basic 
> accounting (I mean how much do my ideas really depreciate over time??)

    	Your ideas wouldn't necessasarily have to depreciate.  You could
    always raise the price on a given info-item as well as lower it.  You
    could also give away the information for free if you so desired.  It
    doesn't take an accounting genius to figure out how to earn money.

> Imagine a world where people are building systems for paying customers and
> not obtuse unusable systems for funny money.

    	How do you know the systems we are currently building will have
    paying customers?  Are you basing your assumptions on marketing data?
    What better marketing data than that of a real market (the info-market)?
 
> Where people provide information to one another because it helps solve a 
> problem or make a product, whether it's that persons job or not.
 
    	This is exactly the sort of goals I had in mind with the info-market
    as well.  Information could basically come from anywhere and go anyplace.
    The only difference is that employees would be motivated to provide the
    highest quality of information as they would be competing for consumers
    of that information.
  
> The fact that these notes files are so popular seems to indicate that
> peeple are willing to contribute to them without charge.

    	People might be more willing if there was an incentive to do so.

> For me, the bottom line is : Please don't intefere with the way I work.

    	The bottom line is : this company can do much better, please be willing
    to consider innovative ideas.

    				    -davo

re: .59,

> What I believe Davo is actually advocating is that DEC get into the INFO
> base market and supply our customers with the info THEY need via notes.
> However, he wants US to test the system by being subjected to the same
> charges etc, etc.

        I was thinking more along the lines of DEC providing the info-market
    as motivation for its employees to provide information in the notesfiles
    so as to help support those who desperately need that information.  If we
    are in fact moving to a point in which the corporation relies more heavily
    upon the notesfiles for information, then it would seem that we should
    make sure the incentives are in place to reward those who provide that
    information.  My contention is that a free market system is the best
    guarantee to providing the level of excellence needed in such an internal
    information warehouse.

	DEC being the unique and innovate company that it is, could provide
    intra-corporate entrepeneurial freedom to its employees (in the form of
    a free market system for sharing information goods and services), turn the
    company around in terms of revenues generated by such an implementation,
    and be able to revolutionize the world when it comes to the electronic
    business of information management - all in one swoop!  Once the benefits
    of having an info-market become apparent, then other companies would
    conceiveably want to create their own storehouses of internal information
    as well (using the enhanced VAXnotes software which we would sell them).

	As to whether we would actually sell the on-line information that
    we collect from such a system, we could, but this would be a whole
    different ball-game.  First of all, as valuable as the information might
    seem, a good deal of the information might only be useful to the particular
    corporation which created it.  Some of the more generic information could
    certainly be packaged and sold externally by groups involved in that
    sort of thing, but that really isn't a major reason behind my pushing
    this idea at this point.

> This is like the ELF V2 people saying "We want to sell ELF to our customers
> so, we will subject our employees to it for a test." We all know how well
> thats working don't we!

	Maybe so, but did ELF V2 start kicking the idea around in here months
    before it ever became a project?  Perhaps if they had done a little better
    job getting input from people beforehand (requirements gathering stages),
    then maybe they wouldn't have to endure such a negative reaction to the
    resulting implementation.

	As far as this idea goes, it has barely left this notesfile.  It
    still has plenty of time to be killed.  Hopefully, instead of killing it,
    people here might instead provide suggestions for improvements or for
    alternative solutions.

				    -davo

    
    If you want to give credit to those "creators" of information, then find
    a way without penalizing those who need the information.  If a person
    is looking for a solution, it seems counterproductive to deny access to
    3 of 10 potential solutions because he ran out of info-dollars for the
    week.  The person's "real" job may entail heavy use of a notesfile, but
    also may prohibit him from spending the time to contribute.  Probably
    the last thing the person needs is to fill out some loan form (against
    his cost center, no doubt) so he can look at a "potential" solution 
    for himself.  Or better yet, a customer.  It's hard enough finding the
    information, let alone having to fill out forms and monitor your 
    info-dollars flow.  What about those individuals who browse many
    notesfiles on a regular basis to keep current with the technology?
    Should they be penalized, because they are trying to keep pace
    with the issues?
    
    
    Plus, who says the answer is in one note?  Often it is a cluster of
    notes.  The result of an ongoing discussion.  Whose intellectual property 
    is that?  What about plagerism?  I could give you a solution, that I got 
    from another note, except I could give it away.  What if the answer is 
    different but "looks" similar?  It seems silly, but if a potential bonus 
    or promotion is riding on number of info-dollars, then these type of 
    problems will happen.  That will open these notesfiles right up.  We'll 
    have to give moderators judicary responsibility in those cases 
    (and of course a governing board for complaints).  We'll probably also need
    a new internal info-dollars debit/credit accounting system so one can
    know you're doing.
    
    It's unfortunate that the people who "know" the answers, don't always
    respond.  Maybe they're doing something else just as productive.  
    
    I guess I'm still skeptical that this is what Digital needs, I think we
    can do better.  
    
    
    				Bob 

Somewhere in my job description (written or unwritten) it should be written
that some reasonable percent of my time (perhaps 10-20) should be spent
helping others get their job done.  Sometimes this results in my answering
questions by mail (of stuff I worked on 10 years ago), sometimes I contribute
to notesfiles, sometimes I write things that end up in the Toolshed. I also
review project plans and various proposed standards.

I would hope that this "contribute to others" is part of the job description
of all reasonably senior (or at least experienced) people.

Why then should I charge others for this assistance or "pay" for it when
I ask someone to help me debug a piece of code that I don't understand?

If I'm helping you with your work, tell my boss: that leads to better
reward than sending funny-money credits across the network.

The only thing I can see coming out of Davo's proposal is another layer of
management, which is something that we really don't need more of; especially
since that organization's sole purpose would be to *prevent* sharing of
information (since the accounts would not balance).

Martin.

re: last two,
	
	These are valid concerns, and believe me, I agonized over these very
    possibilities early on (see notes 1024.32 and 1024.34), and I devised
    a system of rebates and royalties in which a consumer of a given info-item
    actually stands to make more money by *not* plagerizing and copying the
    original info-item than they would be plagerizing and offering the same
    information for resale.  The basic principle is that the consumer would
    only be competing with their own potential rebate income if they were to
    offer the item for resale (not to mention that their info-business
    reputation would surely suffer from such unethical dealings as well).
    I have recently recalculated some even more lucrative examples which
    demonstrate how this works (if anybody is interested).

	As to this mysterious new bureaucracy that everyone seems to fear
    would arise from such a system, sure their would be a few new job
    descriptions perhaps, but this is happening all the time anyway.  We
    shouldn't expect JEC to be a permanent set of job descriptions which
    shall last forever.  Change is inevitable; the better we are at changing
    the better chance we have of surviving in the world as a corporation.
    Speaking of job descriptions, now that upper level management has finally
    recognized the importance of VAXnotes in this corporation, you can bet
    that a few job descriptions will be changed to include VAXnotes file
    support and/or moderation (if they haven't already).  Even three years
    ago, part of my job description included "monitoring information in the
    notesfiles", but that was hardly measureable.  If we are simply going to
    tell our technical people to "Go support the notesfiles", then we might
    as well say "OOOGA-BOOGA!" because that's about how effective and fair
    such a system will be.

	I realize that everyone simply wishes that people would just "do
    the right thing" and volunteer information to notesfiles, but the reality
    of the situation is that some people volunteer better than others, and
    some people simply do not feel that they have time to be answering
    questions in the notesfiles, and some people actually do not want to
    volunteer information for free because they view that as being akin to
    giving away trade secrets, and they might fear that their very job security
    is threatened by giving away such information.  Whatever the reason, the
    fact remains that somehow a way will need to be devised to equitably
    measure the value of information provided in the notesfiles in order
    to adequately reward those who do contribute their time, energy, and
    valuable information to the rest of the noting community.

	My point in this whole crusade is that I can see no better way to
    measure the value of information provided than to employ a free market
    system such as I have described and allow the natural laws of supply and
    demand to determine the worth of a given piece of information.  This
    funny money information market would not necessarily have to equate to 
    raises or performance reviews, but could instead equate to a certain
    level of intra-corporate entrepeneuring *freedom* within the corporation.
    A successful information provider could be rewarded with the ability to
    use the resulting info-dollar capital collected to fund their own research
    and development projects (similar to getting RAD funding).  This would
    allow talented individuals an opportunity to really prove themselves in
    a simulated free market environment.  What's so horrible about that?

				    -davo    

    re: .64
    
    Any system in which I, as a field person, cannot "afford" to get the
    information necessary to perform my job is not in the best interest of
    the corporation.  If I cannot get information quickly, it is my
    customer who actually suffers.  A system which increases the
    possibilities of customer suffering should _never_ be implemented.
    
    Also, please note that in the free-market system, it is not unusual for
    people to dedicate large portions of their time to their economic
    survival.  While economic survival may be an important goal for each
    person employed by this corporation, funny-money economic survival is
    _not_ a goal of the corporation itself.  It is entirely possible that
    people in the infomarket could thrive (funny-money could be flying with
    fury!) and yet the corporation could go bankrupt.  The infomarket is
    actually a distraction from the task at hand:  making the corporation
    successful.  Also note that free-markets are good at creating
    competition, but are not very good at creating global (i.e., internal
    corporate) cooperation -- a necessary factor for doing business in the
    REAL marketplace.
    
    The real task is to reward those who do extra without damaging the
    overall corporation in the process.  People who help out need to
    receive credit for the help which they have given.  So, why
    not use a medium (perhaps NOTES, perhaps not...) which can count the
    number of people (individual node-username combos, perhaps) who benefit
    from the information?  If a person can show their manager an "official"
    report that states that the person's contributions to a particular
    medium was read by 13,942 people during the course of the year, then
    this information should create a positive effect in one's performance
    appraisal.  If your manager does not value the fact that you helped out
    almost 14K times, your manager probably won't care about the funny-money
    revenue you would have brought in using an infomarket.
    
    This is just an off-the-cuff suggestion.  But, I firmly believe that
    what (little) we have now is better than an infomarket.  We don't need
    to track who is "spending" fictional money by looking for information
    -- we need to have information available quickly (WITHOUT RED TAPE AND
    BOOKKEEPING) while somehow rewarding those who go out of their way to
    make the information available.  And the infomarket concept, though
    interesting, does not fit the bill.
    
    -- Russ

	Re: .many

	How is the count of the number of people who read a notes reply in any
way related to how useful that note was?  (And yes, I'm opening myself up to
jokes about this reply... :-)  Trying to charge for "notes info use" has a
big drawback -- how do I know if a note will be useful until I've read it?
Are you going to charge me for the privilege of reading the note to discover
that its useless?  That would be similiar to a clothing store requiring the
customer to *purchase* the garmant and then try it on to see if it fits.  And,
unlike the clothing store, how can we "return" information that didn't fit?
If you give the reader a mechanism to say "oh, don't charge me for that reading
since I couldn't use what I saw" -- everyone will rebate their own charges to
build up their pile of funny-money.  If you force people to pay for every note
read, people will quickly stop reading the notes due to the size of the bills
they are racking up compared to the average degree of usefullness of each note.
(Which I'd assurt would be low -- how many notes do you typically have to read
to get the *real* answer to something?  1?  Sure...  Do you want to reward the
people who put in the 9-out-of-10 notes (if not higher) that don't answer the
question?)

	What a bureacracy this could create.  How are you going to divide up
the initial pile of funny-money?  Can you lend funny-money to other people and
charge interest?  How about buying stock in another group that is making
funny-money profits?  Could we get info-rich on the dividends?  If each country
area used its local currency ("Info-Dollars" in the US), could we play the
market on currency fluctuations?  Gee, this could be fun.  Absolutely counter-
productive to Digital, but fun.

	A valid way of measuring our usefulness to Digital?  No way.

							-craig

re: .65,
    
>    Any system in which I, as a field person, cannot "afford" to get the
>    information necessary to perform my job is not in the best interest of
>    the corporation.  

    	Right.  That's why the info-buck starts at the field.  I have suggested
    two primary sources for info-dollars (not including info-banks which might
    also make info-dollars available):

    	1.  A generic info-dollar allowance for everybody each week (this
    	    amount would vary, but would need to be large in the beginning
    	    in order to get the economic ball rolling).

    	2.  Revenue generating activity translates directly into info-dollars.
    	    This would include (but not be limited to) info-dollar sales
    	    commisions (which would be shared by all who might normally
    	    receive a sales commission in a sales division of any company
    	    which has commissioned salespeople).

    	If you are a sales support person and you need info-dollars to locate
    information, you ask your sales rep for some.  When a sale is made, or
    income from customer service contracts, then this would mean fresh new
    info-dollars in your account!  The goal of the system would be to provide
    an increased amount of quality information at the disposal of those who
    need it to help satisfy customers, so the Corporate Reserve would need to
    allocate a healthy amount of info-dollars to those who are responsible
    to the customers.  The rest of the corporation would then need to serve
    the field in order to cash in on that info-dollar supply and would compete
    to provide the field with quality information they need.

>    Also, please note that in the free-market system, it is not unusual for
>    people to dedicate large portions of their time to their economic
>    survival.  

    	Exactly!  This sort of dedication is something DEC could use more of!

>    While economic survival may be an important goal for each
>    person employed by this corporation, funny-money economic survival is
>    _not_ a goal of the corporation itself.  

    	Sure it is.  How can you be helping the corporation if your very own
    bottom line is constantly in the red?  Everyone must work together towards
    the common goal of getting their bottom line back into the black.  Perhaps
    not very many people have the appropriate talents to manage a cost center,
    but most everybody can at least count money and balance a checkbook.  The
    system would need to be so simple that any employee could figure it out.

>    It is entirely possible that
>    people in the infomarket could thrive (funny-money could be flying with
>    fury!) and yet the corporation could go bankrupt.  

    	This is possible, but not as likely as the alternative (total chaos).

>    The infomarket is
>    actually a distraction from the task at hand:  making the corporation
>    successful.  

    	Not necessarily.  If I improve my lot by improving yours, then you
    might be able to better improve so and so's lot, etc, etc, until pretty
    soon the whole corporation benefits.  Just look at what the free market
    can do to a society and compare that to the alternative!

>    Also note that free-markets are good at creating
>    competition, but are not very good at creating global (i.e., internal
>    corporate) cooperation -- a necessary factor for doing business in the
>    REAL marketplace.

    	You would rather beg and plead to get information from people?
    Face it: money talks.
    
>    People who help out need to
>    receive credit for the help which they have given.  So, why
>    not use a medium (perhaps NOTES, perhaps not...) which can count the
>    number of people (individual node-username combos, perhaps) who benefit
>    from the information? 

    	How do you plan to count the people who use a given note?

>    If a person can show their manager an "official"
>    report that states that the person's contributions to a particular
>    medium was read by 13,942 people during the course of the year, then
>    this information should create a positive effect in one's performance
>    appraisal.  

    	Now this sounds like one of those "metrics" that everybody loves
    so much!  I think that once you examine the alternative methods for
    measuring the value of notes written, that you may begin to understand
    the value and simplicity of the info-market idea.

>    This is just an off-the-cuff suggestion.  But, I firmly believe that
>    what (little) we have now is better than an infomarket.

    	Keep in mind that the info-market (as I have proposed it) would be
    nothing more than a new feature built onto the existing notes facility
    allowing new notes to be SET/PRICE=x.  This means that the existing system
    would still exist (it is unlikely that any old notes would be effected
    since they would not have the necessary record structure to be put up
    for sale anyway).

    	Look at it this way, it is a new idea, there will be plenty of
    room for mistakes in the beginning.  Nobody should worry about going
    broke - after all, why do you think they call it "funny money"?  ;^)

    				    -davo

   The comments in these replies touch on issues that we've come across in 
   building scenarios for future uses of systems. One theme in scenarios 
   developed in workgroup sessions sponsored by Corporate Research is that of 
   the "Information Broker" in large organizations of the future. The "broker" 
   (a person or department) uses technology to access, understand and 
   disseminate information according to its value, not its content. Successful 
   brokers understand who needs specific information and 
   what it's worth to them.
   
   It may help to put concerns about bureaucratic systems aside and consider a 
   couple examples:
   
   * Today, many of us receive external information generated and filtered by 
     news services and sent around the net. Within a day or so of major 
     announcements, we can see the news item several times. Future systems 
     would likely contain agents that screen/sort/package individuals' news to 
     limit the time necessary to understand it and to emphasize those areas of 
     interest. Such agents exist today in prototypes. The value issue: as a 
     manager I would pay for screening and formatting mechanisms; but until 
     there's an understanding of the VALUE of the information, it's unlikely 
     that developers would spend time on them. 
   
   * Already there are power bases forming in large organizations based on the 
     value of information, but it's a barter system. Several replies have 
     referred to "helping others;" I think of information sharing as less 
     altruistic but, at the same time, not market-driven. Case in point: Those 
     of us with sensitive or strategically important information share it with 
     those we trust; with those who share similar information with us; and 
     (moreso outside Digital) with those that our job dictates we should. The 
     value issue: there's no monetary system but there's a keen and strong 
     administrative overhead; personal judgment decides the VALUE. Again, for 
     this process to be formalized to provide future services, something must 
     motivate developers to spend time on it. I believe that the complexity of 
     future organizations will be such that individuals will no longer be able 
     to judge all these "trades" without tools.
   
   Considering such access, use, and distribution of information begs for 
   views of the development world that may or may not provide the technical 
   answers. Although the thought of a bureaucratic charge/pay system seems 
   cumbersome, some means of determining and tracking value will be necessary. 
   
   Some other thoughts that arise when considering these issues:
   
    * time value of information: changes in "pricing" of information has been 
      mentioned, but another real issue is the time value. "Just in Time" 
      philosophy will likely apply to information in organizations as it does 
      to inventory today -- don't want it too soon or too late.
   
    * organizational issues: Who will be the Broker? I believe that this will 
      depend on the organization, its own culture, its philosophy of computing 
      (there are users out there who don't think in distributed terms) and good 
      old politics. Note the number of US corporations that now list the CIO in 
      their annual reports, compared to 10 years ago. Power has shifted and will
      continue to do so. Let's not kill any organizational innovation by jumping
      to conclusions that "MIS" or "Finance" or "(mumble) Committee" will 
      control the information; it's fair game for any types of users to control
      the value. 
  
/Larry K 

	While driving to work this morning, I thought of a reason why this
info-buck "information society" wouldn't work as suggested.  In the real world,
which is being cited as a great example of how free markets work, companies
who go bankrupt are out of business.  In this info-buck scheme, what does
Digital do with people who go bankrupt?  Unless we are willing to state a policy
that going info-bankrupt (which should only happen if you aren't being
productive to Digital) means getting fired, there is no incentive in this
system.  It would be yet another metric that doesn't mean anything in the
real "how do we eliminate people/groups who don't accomplish anything" bottom
line.

	And, of course, if Digital did state the policy of going bankrupt means
going out the door, then everyone will focus their efforts on making info-bucks,
*not* on helping the customer.  (Granted, helping the customer might be a
side-effect, but it should be the main focus, not a side-effect of a new
style of info-turf-wars.)

								-craig

re: .66,

>	How is the count of the number of people who read a notes reply in any
>way related to how useful that note was?  (And yes, I'm opening myself up to
>jokes about this reply... :-)  

    	I don't think such a count would mean much, but then, I never
    proposed using such a count for anything.

> Trying to charge for "notes info use" has a
> big drawback -- how do I know if a note will be useful until I've read it?

    	Each info-item would need to have a visible "package" file associated
    with it that would display all of the relevant data included in the info-
    item.  Anything advertised that was not included would be grounds for a
    money back situation due to false advertising (or at least a percentage of
    money back equal to the item which was not included).

> Are you going to charge me for the privilege of reading the note to discover
> that its useless?  That would be similiar to a clothing store requiring the
> customer to *purchase* the garmant and then try it on to see if it fits.  And,
> unlike the clothing store, how can we "return" information that didn't fit?
> If you give the reader a mechanism to say "oh, don't charge me for that reading
> since I couldn't use what I saw" -- everyone will rebate their own charges to
> build up their pile of funny-money.  

    	Do you pay money to see a movie only to discover that the movie stinks?
    How about an opera, or a play?  What about an art museum?  How often do
    you see people demanding their money back from the managements of these
    sorts of establishments?  I can tell you that I worked as a doorman in
    a movie theatre for over a year and only once did somebody actually want
    a refund on a ticket.  People typically rely on the opinions of the critics 
    to help them decide whether they want to take the chance and see the movie
    or whatever.  I think information would have to operate under the same
    sort of environment.

> If you force people to pay for every note
> read, people will quickly stop reading the notes due to the size of the bills
> they are racking up compared to the average degree of usefullness of each note.

    	Again, not every note would be for sale.  I would estimate that
    probably close to 60% or 70% of the notes in a typical info-store would
    not be for sale, but would instead be various discussions centering around
    a given info-item.  If you counted all of the labeling on boxes, free
    marketing literature, giveaways, newspaper radio and TV ads, and all of
    the conversations which normally take place in a given store along with
    the actual products actually for sale, I think you will begin to see
    what I mean.  There would be a lot of free notes even in a dedicated
    info-store notesfile.

> 	What a bureacracy this could create.

    	Maybe so, but even if it did create a few new jobs, I think it
    would probably tend to eliminate a few others.  Who knows, if the system
    was implemented well enough, it might end up eliminating alot more jobs
    than it created.  In any case, the people that such a system replaces
    could be retrained to fill the ranks of the resulting info-market 
    bureaucracy (even though I think that many of these jobs could
    eventually be automated given the nature of a purely on-line system).

> How are you going to divide up the initial pile of funny-money?

    	Think of it as a game.  You typically get a certain base-level
    amount of money when starting a game.  Everybody would be given an
    initial sum to start (say $1000 in info-dollars each - this money
    represents about a couple days worth of work for me at my ESDP rate
    of $63/hour in DEC funny money).  As each new member joined the info-
    market, they would also be given an initial $1000 to get started.
    The rest of the funny-money wouldn't need to be effected.  This
    system wouln't necessarily have to replace the current funny-money
    economy inside of DEC - it could simply be thought of as an auxiliary
    enterprise (kind-of like DECWORLD).

>  Can you lend funny-money to other people and charge interest?

    	Sure, why not?  Corporate-insured banking institutions would spring
    up (I think we may want to hold-off on S&L's though ;^).

>  How about buying stock in another group that is making funny-money profits?

    	Well, depending upon the given rebate percentage offered on a given
    info-item (see note 1024.34 for details), then by buying a given product,
    you are also actually buying stock in that producer (or producers).  The
    more that a particular info-item sells, the better chance you (as a 
    consumer of that info-item) will eventually break-even and perhaps even
    make money on the investment.

> Could we get info-rich on the dividends?  If each country
> area used its local currency ("Info-Dollars" in the US), could we play the
> market on currency fluctuations?  Gee, this could be fun.  Absolutely counter-
> productive to Digital, but fun.

    	I don't think that a little lesson in economics, the free market,
    and retailing of one's own work would necessarily be counter-productive
    to Digital.  No more counter productive than playing any number of
    electronic games (whose names I won't mention), or noting in any number
    of employee interest notesfiles, or playing cards during lunch hours,
    or any number of other activities which normally go on during work.
    Besides, one of the main goals of the system is to tap into the enormous
    amount of moonlighting that normally goes on unnoticed in the corporation.
    In any case, the fact that it would be fun is definitely a plus!

    				    -davo

p.s.	How is internal "funny-money" currently handled between countries?

    The info-dollar system does not take advanced development groups or new
    projects into account.  Somebody in these positions has little or
    nothing to offer the field in the way of support because there are no
    products [yet].  For that matter, with low visibility inside the
    corporation, few "outsiders" are likely to read the groups' notes and
    provide an infusion of info-dollars.  A/D and new project efforts will
    quickly run out of "money". 
    
    Maybe I am an idealist, but it seems that the name recognition one can
    establish throughout the company is more valuable than counting
    imaginary beans.  Not only does the free information help the company
    as a whole, but it helps the providers by further establishing them as
    knowledgeable about particular fields.  This, in turn, paves the way
    for new career directions within the company.
    
    As proposed, the info-dollar system would discourage new development
    and keep people locked in their current jobs, where they can provide
    the most information and need the least outside information.  
    
    --Pat

re: .68,

    	An information broker might do much of their "information shopping"
    in the info-market.  They could then repackage that information and
    sell it to their own customers (who sound like electronic mailing lists).

    	The same information broker might also provide an information
    service in the info-market whereby people could purchase a subscription
    to the information brokerage service by using the Notes> BUY command.

    	The way I see it, not everybody would ever actually use Notes (just
    as not everybody actually uses Notes now - some people simply aren't
    into the textual medium of communication).  Therefore, information
    brokers would be needed to help diseminate information from the info-
    market to the outside world.

    	In any case, I see the position of information broker as but one of
    many such opportunities in a given info-market environment.

    				     -davo

re: .69,

    	Ok, you're worried about the person who's hard on their luck.
    This is typically a person who can't seem to make ends meet in the
    info-market for one reason or another.  Well, what happens to these
    people in the real world?  Are they terminated when they go bankrupt?
    Of course not.  They typically end up getting a job working for somebody
    else's company (like most of us here).  Many of the more recognized
    info-marketers in the info-market would most likely be teams (or
    miniature companies).

    	These teams might resemble the existing project group structure,
    although they might also be made up of individuals from different
    organizations.  These "virtual teams" would have the ability to "employ"
    people to help generate their information products.  They would pay
    their employees in info-dollars.  An entrepeneur who was down on their
    luck trying to go it on their own might try for a "job" with an info-
    market company (virtual team) instead.

    	I also mentioned the need for a corporate welfare system for
    such cases of info-market bankruptcy.  Think of it this way: even in
    our free market environment, there are still plenty of "non-profit"
    organizations, as well as governmental organizations.  If you equate
    the Corporate Reserve to the government, and sales taxes on each info-
    item sold, then it is easy to see how an electronic government could
    be supported which could provide services to the bankrupt, etc.  The
    Corporate Reserve might also provide grant info-money for given projects,
    etc.

    				    -davo

re: .71,

    	If properly implemented, one should be able to separate one's
    "real job" from one's info-market job in order to allow for both
    entities to thrive independently of one another.  The way I see it,
    we all have a real job, and then we all have our noting personas here
    in the notesfiles.  Much of the time, our noting personas and our real
    jobs overlap, but the fluidity of the electronic medium allows for a
    great deal of flexibility in this regard.  How many times have you found
    yourself with some spare time ("between compiles" or whatever) providing
    information in a notesfile that is basically unrelated to your real job,
    yet vital to the corporation?

        This sort of virtual overlap occurs all the time in the existing
    notesfile setup, and should also be designed into the info-market in
    order to provide the sort of variety that makes this electronic world
    so interesting.  The way it might work is that you and I (for example)
    could end up working together in a "virtual team" to produce a given
    info-item for sale in the info-market, yet we might not actually ever
    work in the same group at DEC.

    	If a given R&D group (such as yours) wanted to provide a service
    in the info-market, then they would need to figure out a market, and
    then go from there.  Chances are you might be right about many of the
    products in your environment, since they would be mostly dealing in
    unannounced products (and as such would involve a great deal of secrecy).
    One thing you would be assured of, however, and that is that *every*
    potential info-item customer would at least be a verified DEC employee
    (since they would need to be an employee to have an info-dollar account).
    There might even be a way to make certain info-items available only to
    certain subsets of employees as well (and if that is the case, then you
    might make other info-items available to anyone as well).

    	The other possibility is that the Corporate Reserve might provide
    research grants to info-market research groups (similar to the way
    the Federal Government hands out research grants to people).  Your
    group might then qualify as some sort of internal non-profit organization
    within the free market structure.

    	There are probably many groups within DEC like yours which might
    not be able to translate directly into an info-market group, yet there
    is no reason you couldn't do a little intra-corporate entrepeneuring
    in the info-market on your own spare time (either by yourself, or in a
    virtual team).  After all, this is where the majority of notesfile
    information probably comes from.

    				   -davo

    
    On an external basis, isn't this the same concept as offering
    "value-added" information as a service, asking a premium price for
    perceived premium information?
    
    As I recall the Tom Peters THRIVING ON CHAOS PBS 3-hour television
    show, he argued that value-added information was the future because
    people wanted such information, not necessarily just information
    technology.  I believe the example he gave was an intrapreneur with
    American Express (?) who came up with the concept of consolidating all
    airline schedules into one electronic database, and then offering those
    schedules in the form of a value-added monthly booklet subscription for
    business fliers who wanted a handy reference on flight schedules.  I
    think he said this "division" came to be sold for $450,000,000!
    
    So, if the market of the future for BIG MARGIN business is in adding
    value to information and sharing it for a hefty profit, why can't
    Digital sponsor intrapreneurs who see a niche for such a value-added
    information service, and offer funding, information technology, people
    and support, along with profit sharing, in order to grow within Digital
    such "information service businesses"?  Does it not make more sense to
    create an information service business worth $450,000,000 as a division
    of Digital rather than just sell $1,000,000 worth of hardware/software
    to someone OUTSIDE of Digital who creates the business?
    
    Doesn't it make some sense for the Executive Committee to sponsor the
    creation of a "intrapreneur skunkworks committee" that would review
    internal proposals made by creative would-be entrepreneurs for such
    value-added information service BUSINESSES?
    

re: .75,

	Rename the "intrapreneur skunkworks committee" you mentioned to the
    "Corporate Reserve" in the info-market idea, and I think we're on the
    same wavelength.  There would obviously need to be some executive level
    committee to oversee the info-market and make sure the economic system
    didn't get totally out of control.  This is much of what the Federal
    Reserve does in real life, only the Corporate Reserve would need to go
    a step further and provide a few other services aside from merely economic
    ones as well.

	What I do want to avoid however, is a situation in which a committee
    such as the one you mentioned became overly involved in such an info-market.
    Can you imagine a single committee controlling all information transpiring
    in the notesfiles?  Such a committee would only provide a nuisance of
    themselves, and if the committee became too involved, then the info-market
    would ultimately suffer the same fate as that of any centrally controlled
    economy (take your pick of communist systems currently crumbling).  As
    long as the committee merely provided a form of Laisez-Faire policies
    which provided the framework for a free market system, then I think this
    would work.

				     -davo    

	Amazing, Davo, simply amazing.  Take a look at this section of .70
where you were answering one of my questions:

>>       What a bureacracy this could create.
>
>        Maybe so, but even if it did create a few new jobs, I think it
>    would probably tend to eliminate a few others.  Who knows, if the system
>    was implemented well enough, it might end up eliminating alot more jobs
>    than it created.  ...

and compare it to and answer you gave me later in the same reply to my question
about productivity:

>        I don't think that a little lesson in economics, the free market,
>    and retailing of one's own work would necessarily be counter-productive
>    to Digital.  No more counter productive than playing any number of
>    electronic games (whose names I won't mention), or noting in any number
>    of employee interest notesfiles, or playing cards during lunch hours,
>    or any number of other activities which normally go on during work.


	So tell me, is this a game like card playing at lunch or is it something
that could eliminate someone's job?  You can't tell us how serious this is and
the jobs it could eliminate *and* equate it to being just another lunch-time
game.  Being a lousy card player won't terminate your job.  Losing to the
computer in Chess won't terminate your job.  "Playing" your funny-money game
incorrectly could.  Your answers are starting to sound self-inconsistant.

	And, of course, with the welfare state that you're suggesting would be
set up, there is no incentive for anyone to "play".  Due to that, anyone that
does play could be viewed as doing just that -- playing.  The system either
has to have real teeth or else is a game that will be ignored.

								-craig

p.s.  And incidently, no, I don't go to random movies and pay to see something
that I know nothing about.

The idea, as described by davo, seems to lack the mark of most really
good ideas: the elegance of simplicity.

We already have good, simple models of information-sharing for profit.  They
are books, magazines, free and pay television, radio, lectures, network
services such as 'The Source', consultants, and so on.  Each of these has 
a relatively simple marketing scheme, and is tailored to a particular 
audience and purpose. 

At DEC we already use most of these instruments to sell information to each
other, and maybe there's a simple way to commercialize some part of the 
NOTES system too.  It's really just another medium.  But to imagine it as 
a magnificent, intricate web of debits and credits is to create a monster 
out of what might otherwise be a useful idea.  Perhaps a more modest approach 
would be workable.  Maybe the specialty magazine is a good model

As for the day-to-day exchange of ideas, that's what I think I'm getting 
paid for already.  The bulk of my time is funded by particular groups, but
I'm swapping information about dozens of things with lots of folks, 
offering the best I can, all day long.  I figure that's part of the job, eh?  
I wouldn't want that to change too much.  

Maybe the coexistence of Ed Services with the Digital Library is a good 
model for how information can be made available within a company.  If I'm 
feeling flush, I might buy a 'VMS Utilities and Commands' CBI course from 
Ed Services.  But if I'm not, I'll take it out of the DEC library.  It's
in the library for a reason.  There's room for consulting (electronic or
otherwise), but within a company, free access to good information is vital.

    
    re: 75
    
    hmmm, So contribution to these electronic databases for sale COULD be
    seen as a profitable activity where people, computer and financial
    resources are worth comitting.  Perhaps the usage of these databases
    could be monitored to measure their worth.  It sounds like access 
    to the entire database as a whole was worth the .45 billion, not
    the sum of its parts.  
    
    
    Sounds cleaner to me then the debit/credit system.  No loans, no
    complex accounting systems measuring pennies, no welfare boards,
    no economic courses, No bankruptcy and plagerism courts, no 
    Supply Side Digital.  No internal restrictions on information access
    (in fact Digital employess might even be encouraged to use the services
    to measure the usage).
    
    				Bob 
    
    

    re: last 10 or so

    Digital has tons of information internally. If you want to make money,
    let's make _real_ money. Offer groups the ability to offer customer-
    accessible services. Keep payment simple. Like PRODIGY, for example,
    which is a flat-fee service, or perhaps a _simple_ graduated scale,
    maybe based on numbers of conferences  or VTX infobases accessed.

    Citibank, for example, offers GLOBAL REPORTS, a VTX-based financial
    information service. I don't know what their fee schedule is, but it's
    a successful service, so do the same thing. You don't have to search high
    and low to figure out how to succeed. Find someone who's succeeding and
    DO THE SAME THING. It's so simple, it boggles the mind.

    I'll bet customers would even pay just for access to our personal
    interest conferences. What customer could be happier than one who
    felt like they were (almost) a part of us??

    As for administering internal funny-money, YUCCHHH!!! Sorry if I'm
    repeating myself :-)  BTW, there is NO FUNNY MONEY TRANSFER ACROSS
    NATIONAL BOUNDARIES. This is destined to create more administrivia.
    No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No.
    No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No.
    No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No.
    No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No.

    <BLUNT_ALERT>

    Look, we can be Donald Trump (present matrimonial uproar notwithstanding)
    or someone playing on a Monopoly board.

    	WHICH ARE __YOU__ GOING TO CHOOSE ???????????????????????????


    /Peters

    I hate to disillusion .-1 , but we already have solved the
    international funny money problem - with funny money exchange rates.
    
    Currently, 1 Funny Pound Sterling = 1.5625 Funny Dollars ....
    
    The idea I really did like was the skunkworks approach .
    Where do all the best ideas come from ? How did NOTES (and DECNET ?)
    first start ? What activity involves no committees, no laid-down
    procedures.
    
    JOIN THE SKUNKWORKS REVOLUTION !
    
    Mike Day
    

re: .77,

    	Again, I am not talking about terminating people for whatever reason!
    We work in an extremely fast-changing industry.  Jobs are constantly being
    automated and eliminated all the time, but newer [sometimes even better]
    jobs are also being created just as fast (if not faster) than they are
    being eliminated.  During all of this constant change (DEC at least), has
    managed to change with the industry without laying off employees.  There
    is a big difference between eliminating jobs and laying off employees!

    	As to how many jobs an info-market system would eliminate, I have
    already said I don't know.  It would all depend on the way it was
    implemented.  It would depend upon the sorts of quality factors that
    people felt were imporatnt in such a system.  It looks as though the
    ease-of-use quality factor has been stressed in the last few notes as
    being an important factor in the design of such a system.  Also mentioned
    was a need for the system to be fair to those who aren't sure of what
    they are buying (usability).  It also appears that manageability (reduced
    bureaucracy) is also seen as important.  I would add accuracy (as nobody
    would use the system if they did not trust it would safely store their 
    information (as well as their resulting info-dollars).  Distributivity
    is also an obvious quality factor.  There are other quality factors as
    well which might be stressed in the design of such a system, but for
    the sake of helping to explain this concept, it is probably better to
    concentrate on simplicity for now...

    				    -davo

    How about a DEC-run conference, sort of an official ASKENET, 
    where an employee can ask any question in an effort to
    better serve the customer. This conference to be *constantly*
    open by some number of experts in various disciplines, perhaps
    a few hours a day each, as part of their work duties. 
    
    All run as a service organization, with a committment to answer
    any/all questions within a minimum time. (Perhaps with a 'user fee'
    of an hour of obligatory on-line availability for each question
    answered ?)
    

    	How hard is it to decide what movie to go to on a given evening out
    on the town?  You might start by looking in the newspaper to see what's
    playing, then when you see something that you heard the movie critics
    talking about or saw an interesting advertisement for, you decide you
    might want to try it out, so you check to see when it is playing, get
    a baby-sitter (in many cases), drive downtown, park the car, walk up to
    the box office, buy a ticket, go inside, hand the ticket to the doorman,
    and proceed to go inside, find a seat in the dark, and watch the movie.
    It seems fairly complicated when you look at all of the steps involved
    (and I didn't even include buying popcorn), but how many people do you
    know that have never bothered to go to a movie because it was too
    complicated? 

    	A typical purchase in the info-market wouldn't even be half as
    complicated as the above sequence because the advertisements, the
    products, the tickets, the critics (or critiques in this case), the
    producer (many times), along with the actual money (on-line info-dollars)
    are all already located in one single place: the info-store.  The consumer
    would still probably want to shop around at different info-stores (and/or
    among different products within the same info-store perhaps) before
    buying anything, but shopping is half of the fun because each store
    would be as different as each of us are creative.  Each store would
    strive to do anything and everything they could to attract people to
    shop at their store.  Stores would eventually develop reputations based
    on the level of info-customer satisfaction they can create.  The con-
    artists and poor quality producers would be screened by the managers
    of the better stores to help maintain those reputations.

    	Here is how a typical info-shopping spree might occur.  Let's say
    a novice info-consumer decides they need to learn how to install VMS
    on their new system.  Let's say that they have the VMS kit, along with
    all of the documentation, but they really don't have time to sit down
    and read through the installation notes, so they just want a little
    help and a few quick answers.  Imagine what would happen if such a
    person entered a note in the VMSNOTES notesfile today?  They would
    either be laughed right off of the network, told to go RFM, or otherwise
    basically ignored.

    	With an info-net however, chances are that each question the novice
    noter placed in the notesfile would be answered by at least one (maybe
    two or three different people - each at a different price in a very short
    time.  Based on the reputations of the noters answering the questions, the
    consumer would probably pick the note by the noter which is known for
    writing the best answers.  If the consumer wasn't sure whose answer
    was the best deal, then the consumer need only ask around.  If nothing
    else, they might chose the least expensive answer.  Soon after this
    initial deal, other noters in a similar situation might happen upon
    the same question and associated answers, and would be able to choose
    the best answer based on the feedback from those who had previously
    critiqued the answers.  Given the demand for such information, another
    noter might offer a complete course on installing VMS (in ten easy steps
    for $10 apiece or whatever).

    	As far as the actual mechanics of the info-item purchasing and 
    sales process, there really wouldn't be a whole lot to it from the
    user's point of view.  In addition to needing to know a minimal level
    of ordinary Notes commands (such as WRITE, REPLY, and NEXT UNSEEN, etc.),
    a consumer would basically only need to know how to type the three
    important letters "BUY" in order to purchase a given note.

    	The producer would need to know a few more commands such as SET NOTE/
    PRICE=<$x.x>, and could have the ability to also set a few other things
    such as an automatic mark-down, etc, but defaults for most of this sort
    of stuff could be set in the noter's profile and would apply to all
    of the notes they put up for sale (unless otherwise specified).  All of
    the tax and billing details would be handled automatically by the system,
    so all a user would need to do is occasionally check their balance to
    see how much info-money they had.  I fail to see what is so extraordinarily
    complicated about this?

    				    -davo

	Re: .84

	One more time, and believe me, the last time:  If it becomes the new
company-wide metric by which job performances and/or job existances (including
being asked to find another job within Digital) are measured, becoming
"info-rich" will become the main concern, not helping the customer.  If its
not something that relates to job performance, its a silly and wasteful game
that just invites bureacracy.  Pick one.

	Hey, if you want to know *so badly* how many people use something you
put into notes, you can do one of the following:

	1)  Just put the summary into the notesfile and ask people to mail
you a request for the full data, or,

	2)  Put the summary into the notesfile with a pointer to the file in
a publicly-accessible place.  Have a security alarm on that file that logs all
the accesses and periodically check the count.  This way, the "users" of the
data don't even know they are being monitored and thus the access count won't
be skewed by people who would otherwise want your info, but are running
info-buck short at the moment and are restricting their browsing.

							-craig

> All of the tax and billing details would be handled automatically by the
> system,so all a user would need to do is occasionally check their balance
> to see how much info-money they had. 

Across notesfiles,  for each individual at digital, just a simple matter of 
programming, plus the assorted "support" functions.		

		Feel like we've taken two steps back.

				Bob 

				

    re: .81

    I was actually thinking of revenue transfers. You're saying that one
    cost center can JV expenses to a cost center in another country?

    re: One about concetrating on metric not customer

    I'm afraid I have to agree. I was not the "financial" wiz UM for my
    district in my days as a unit manager. But, even our financial wiz would
    ask me for the best way to accrue the most revenue (income based on %
    completion of a project, for example). With all modesty, I lifted the
    science of revenue accruals to new heights. All info-dollars will do is
    breed people who will lift the science of gathering info-dollars to new
    heights.

    Personally, I'm glad I no longer have to worry about being "creative"
    that way. Neither should we propagate anything else that will encourage
    or, indeed, require such types of creativity.

    Anyway you look at it, once you get into management ranks this is all
    going to turn into a contest, and the manager whose group has the most
    info dollars will win. People will be _told_ how, where, or if to spend
    their info-dollars.

    If we have marketable information, let's do a marketing study and see if
    we can sell it to customers. I think they would fall over each other for
    anything containing the word "EasyNet."


    /Peters

    	I see we are going in circles here now.  By showing how easy the
    info-market system could look to the user, then the claim is made that
    the info-market system would be too hard to implement.  By showing how
    the system could reduce the overbearing levels of bureaucracy through
    automation, it is feared that the system would put people out of work.
    By showing how such a system could provide Digital with a means of show-
    casing a revolutionary new way for people to carry-on their everyday
    business electronically, then the fear is that computers might remove
    the human element from the business world.  Finally, by showing how the
    system would provide everyone with equal access to a free and open intra-
    corporate market of electronic goods and services based on the laws of
    supply and demand, the response is one which warns of the inherent evils
    of capitalism and competition.

    	If it really is too hard to program such things, then why do we bother
    to program anything at all?  We might as well throw our hands up in the
    air and give up on developing any sort of computer software.  If every new
    system to come along needed to be implemented without changing any current
    jobs, then we would all still be hunters and gatherers living in caves.
    If computers are truly inhumane and nothing but the cause of great
    anguish, then we might as well all quit building them and just chalk
    this whole new "Information Age" up to a fluke in human history.  If
    money truly is the root of all evil, then I'm sure none of you will
    mind taking a %10 pay cut (such as is now being done at Data General).

    	There is a trade-off in any sort of system.  It is true that the
    additional features to the VAXnotes facility would be no picnic to program,
    and that such a system would probably change a few job titles, and that
    the info-market system would rely more on computers for many things
    traditionally done by people, and that money isn't everything.  However,
    its implementation really isn't as big of a deal technically as it might
    be otherwise.  The fact that it might change the way we work is probably
    the biggest single factor that people are afraid of such an idea.  It is
    a fact of life that we live and work in a competitive environment, yet
    we seem to regard the notesfiles as some sort of magical realm in which
    answers to problems as well as new ideas, innovations, and programs will
    just magically appear with nothing more than a please and a thank you.

    	Even if this electronic wonderland truly was the Marxian utopia which
    many seem to feel it is, then how may we maximize this potential in order
    to pull this company out of the financial doldrums?  Do we put people in 
    charge of entering notes in certain notesfiles?  If so, then so much for
    the freedom to help out in other notesfiles, as well as motivating anyone
    to do anything innovative or exciting.  Do we tabulate the amount or size
    of notes entered in notesfiles?  If so, then so much for quality of notes
    written.  Do we secretly monitor how many people access a given file to
    determine its worth?  If so, then we will only reward sensationalism and
    the resulting curiosity of those whose initial interest is stimulated
    enough to access the file (not to mention the problems in verifying that
    the files were actually accessed by people who used them and not by the
    creator of the file themselves).  If any of these methods were used, then
    so much for the fun of noting as well.

    	In any case, the issue always returns to the issue of rewarding those
    who volunteer their time providing information goods and services in the
    notesfiles.  I still maintain that a free market system is the only fair
    and effective means of attaining such a goal.  Such a system would provide
    intra-corporate entrepeneurs with a real challenge internally (as opposed
    to having good people leave and further the "brain-drain" problems this
    company constantly faces), as well as providing the company with a breeding
    grounds for creativity and innovation - all of which capitalizes on the
    increased need for computers, networks, and distributed applications by
    a world which could well follow our example.  Please remember that such
    computer-based business solutions are the very bread and butter of this
    corporation, and can only increase the demand for [Digital] computers
    and associated software and services.

    				   -davo

>   re .88

    Well, I think that everyone already has a 

>                                  ...equal access to a free and open intra-
>   corporate market of electronic goods and services...

    and we are _already_ engaged in
>                                                                 ... show-
>   casing a revolutionary new way for people to carry-on their everyday
>   business electronically ...

    I disagree that the info-market system would reduce bureaucracy. I think
    it would permanently entrench the risk-averse position-conolidating
    bean-counters as the sole surviving managers, since they would only have
    to point to their incoming info-dollars for their next promotion -- even
    if they are total jerks.

    You know, as much as we may bitch and moan, we already work in the
    "Information Age," and quite well at that. And things _do_ magically
    appear in notes because most of the people at Digital care about the
    people they work with.

    The problem isn't knowing who's contributing and who isn't. And do you
    _really_ think that having info-dollars to _prove_ your worth to
    Digital is going to make one iota of difference in how you are rated
    or treated by your manager??

>      In any case, the issue always returns to the issue of rewarding those
>   who volunteer their time providing information goods and services in the
>   notesfiles.  I still maintain that a free market system is the only fair
>   and effective means of attaining such a goal.

    If your manager is a jerk, then info-dollars will change nothing. If
    your manager isn't a jerk, then her or she is already recognizing your
    contributions.

    I'm even convinced that many people will be punished for earning
    info-dollars because they weren't devoting all their job and private
    time to grunt task X. Info-dollars will be used as a measure of how much
    time you spend _not_ doing your "job":

      Manager:	"What do you mean, you won't have X done until next week?
    		 You got Y done!!"

      Contributor:
    		"Well, I did Y at home on my own time."

      Manager:	"I don't care if you did Y at 3:00 a.m. X is what you're
    		being paid to do!!"

    The issue we keep returning to -- rewarding the contributor to Digital
    -- is not going to be solved by a computerized panacea.  This issue can
    only be solved by management BECAUSE THEY _ARE_ THE PROBLEM.

    I'm not being cynical. I've "been there" at Digital. Find something new 
    to measure, and the _first_ thing that gets lost is what you were trying
    to accomplish.

    Frankly, the reason Notes work so well is because they _are_ free!!

    Until we demonstrate that we value managerial leadership and competence,
    that meeting metrics is _not_ equivalent to demonstrating competence,
    and that "doing the right thing for Digital" counts for something,
    nothing will change.


    /Peters

re: .89,

>    I disagree that the info-market system would reduce bureaucracy. I think
>    it would permanently entrench the risk-averse position-conolidating
>    bean-counters as the sole surviving managers, since they would only have
>    to point to their incoming info-dollars for their next promotion -- even
>    if they are total jerks.

	But how would someone who does not produce a product rise to such
    a level of power?  You are assuming that managers would still be able
    to ride on the backs of those who succeed.  I am talking about a "nouveau
    riche" - an industrial revolution which would allow a new breed of intra-
    corporate entrepeneurs to go it on their own (without managers).  The
    reason they would not need a manager is because they would effectively
    be their own managers (managed by the laws of supply and demand).

	These entrepeneurs would effectively become their own cost centers
    funded by the info-dollar profits of their info-item products.  They
    would need to pay for their own office-space, hire their own employees
    (if necessary), and ultimately manage themselves.  This is the sort of
    freedom I am talking about.

	Of course, with such entrepeneurial freedom would come responsibility.
    If a venture failed and the entrepeneur went bankrupt, then they would
    be back looking for work like a normal employee.  I would imagine that
    most entrepeneurs would begin by "moonlighting" (working late to create
    their internal customer base), and then eventually ween themselves from
    the reliance upon their cost center to pay for their overhead expenses.
    Before long, the entrepeneur would be financially capable of leaving
    their group and could then get a job working for themselves or together
    with other entrepeneurs (relying on their successes in the info-market
    to pay their overhead business expenses).

	These are extreme cases however.  Chances are, most people would
    balance their entrepeneurial freedom with the security of a stable cost
    center environment.  This balance could be achieved by applying the same
    sort of labor ticket division of weekly hours into associated project
    numbers that many groups already use.  Rumor has it that the current
    paper-based system is already being replaced by a (currently prototype)
    on-line system.  This will help reduce the bureaucracy in such a system.

>    You know, as much as we may bitch and moan, we already work in the
>    "Information Age," and quite well at that. And things _do_ magically
>    appear in notes because most of the people at Digital care about the
>    people they work with.

	There is far too much information which doesn't magically appear in
    the notesfiles which should be appearing.  I have seen a great many
    projects (with associated work-related notesfiles) die from lack of
    interest (many are currently on their deathbed).

				     -davo

    Or with all of this useful and very marketworthy information you
    could leave and start your own venture where the entrepeneural spirit
    would have total freedom. 
    
    And you were responsible for your own benefits, vacation and sick
    time, reward structure, salary, overhead, support, notes network,
    equipment, office space ...
    
    Lets all try to devise a scheme where we get rich without having
    to take risks.  We can get together a couple of nights a week, play
    out our fantasies by using fictional adventure characters, maybe
    even have a dungen master .....
    
    Can we give this a rest?
    
    -kevin
    

    
    Re .90:
    
>>    					       I have seen a great many
>>    projects (with associated work-related notesfiles) die from lack of
>>    interest (many are currently on their deathbed).
    
    This is as it should be. Just another indication that the current
    system works rather well, thank you.
    
    If you're implying that you "info-dollars" plan will keep otherwise
    uninteresting projects alive, then I dismiss the plan on that alone.
    
    (Of course, I've already dismissed on other counts.)
    
    
    (Are we taking the wrong tack here? Perhaps if we ignore it, it will
    quietly fade away and free up the network bandwidth for more
    interesting and fruitful discussions...)

re: .92,
    
>    If you're implying that you "info-dollars" plan will keep otherwise
>    uninteresting projects alive, then I dismiss the plan on that alone.

	It might not keep uninteresting projects alive, but it would certainly
    provide an incentive for people to make uninteresting projects interesting!
    
>    (Are we taking the wrong tack here? Perhaps if we ignore it, it will
>    quietly fade away and free up the network bandwidth for more
>    interesting and fruitful discussions...)

	Perhaps if the Kremlin simply ignores perestroika, then the free
    market system will quietly fade away as well?

				    -davo

    	  INFODOLLAR INFLATION TAKES ITS TOLL ON DIGITIAL EQUIPMENT CORP.
    
    Maynard, MA   Digital Equipment Corp recently reported sharply lower
    		  projections on annual earnings, due in large part to
    		  the strain of internal "infodollars" inflating at an
    		  unforessen 15% for fiscal year 2004. This incredible
    		  inflation resulted from various managerial claims that
    		  "our function's information is worth more than your
    		  function's", and subsequent price wars which escalated
    		  infodollar charges and decreased the infodollar's value.
    
    		  Additional strain was placed on the system because the
    		  Digital infoyen and infomark are at record levels, 
    		  making it much more difficult for US-DIGITAL employees
    		  to purchase DIGITAL Euroupe and DIGITAL GIA information,
    		  effectively paralyzing international development and
    		  marketing within the company.
    
    		  DIGTIAL's highest levels of management have put a stop
    	 	  to recent rumors that cost centers will be allowed to
    		  sell infodollar junk bonds to finance huge investments
    		  in infodollars, thus allowing them to finally communicate
    		  with other groups and perform some productive work.
    
    
With tongue firmly in cheek, and hoping I never see a DIGITAL with
    infodollars,
    
    Ellen

    re: .94
    
    			Amen!!!
    
    
    
    

    INFONET PURCHASES DIGITIAL EQUIPMENT CORP.
    
    Maynard, MA   INFONET, the information market network software company 
    		  today announced that it would be purchasing what is left
    		  of the Maynard-based Digital Equipment Corporation (whose
    		  stock is now selling at five dollars a share).

    		  When asked why such a successful company as INFONET would
    		  want to purchase such an old and outdated company as Digital
    		  Equipment Corporation, the public relations department
    		  released an INPR (Information Network Press Release) which
    		  stated that Digital still had alot of well-meaning employees
    		  working there "even if they still have alot to learn about
    		  applying the free market system to their individual working
    		  situations..." (refering to the blind adherence to the old
    		  corporate socialist infra-structure within Digital).

    		  Other INFONET sources indicated that many people at INFONET
    		  used to work for Digital, and had strong emotional ties to
    		  the company, its people, as well as the Digital Equipment
    		  hardware itself, which is, of course the hardware which
    		  INFONET originally purchased and used to set-up its first
    		  prototype Worldwide Information Network back in 1992 (when
    		  several employees at Digital finally left and began INFONET
    		  after trying for two years to interest others at Digital
    		  of the information marketplace idea).  Since then, of course,
    		  INFONET has grown from being a small network software startup,
    		  to its present international scope which employs the majority 
    		  of the world's freelance software engineers and information
    		  managers the world over, as well as being the number one
    		  computer, publishing, news, entertainment, space exploration,
    		  financial, as well as communications industry the world
    		  over as well.


    	Of course, this is a tongue-in-cheek response to reply #.94, but
    don't think it won't happen.

    				   -davo

While we're building an information society we'll be faced with 
all sorts of questions like, "should information be free,"
and one thing we can do is to look at other human societies to
see what has worked and what hasn't worked.  With that in mind, I
offer:

A FABLE FOR CONSIDERATION BY THE INFORMATION SOCIETY'S ARCHITECTS

Once upon a time, on the planet Earth, two societies were born.  

The founders of the first society created a government and gave it very
limited powers.  "Protect us from foreign adverseries.  Ensure domestic
tranquility."  All other societal needs - including the feeding, clothing 
and housing of its citizens - were left to the citizens themselves.  The 
citizens were expected to handle their own needs, and the needs of others,
by selling goods and services to each other.  This society was eventually
named THE MARKET DRIVEN SOCIETY (MDS).

The founders of the second society were dismayed at the chaos of the market 
driven society.  "People will go homeless and hungry because they will have no
money to pay for homes or food.  The rich will have warmer clothes than
the poor.  Citizens will take advantage of each other by selling poor goods
and services.  Citizens will shop around for the cheapest food and cheapest
clothing rather than shopping for the best. Each citizen will come up with
his own idea on how to create, sell and market goods and services.  There will
be no consistency."

The second society's founders postulated a different approach.  "We are all
part of the same society.  Each member will receive from society all he or
she needs, and each member will give to society all he or she can.  We will
all willingly work for the greater good of our society."

The founders of this second society created a much more powerful 
and parental-like government. In their society food, clothing 
and housing would either be free - or available to citizens 
at controlled, low prices. Central architectures would
be put into place to assure that no citizens would be homeless,
hungry or without clothing. All funding for any endeavor would come 
from the government, who would define precisely, and consistently, what 
should be done for the benefit of all citizens. This society came to be 
called THE CENTRALLY ARCHITECTED SOCIETY (CAS).

And, so, the two societies started.  In the Market Driven Society (MDS) all was
chaotic.  Citizens seeing a need for some particular product or service
provided it - at a price. The first successful producers often charged
unconscionable prices for their goods.  Then, other producers came, and
valuable resources were wasted on non productive activities like competition, 
advertising and marketing.  Many producers, in this cut throat environment, 
went bankrupt. Some producers, to make a profit, sold shoddy goods to 
citizens.  No one knew, for sure, what products and services would be 
available the next day.  There was little consistency in products and
services - indeed, aggressive suppliers purposely tried to distinguish 
their goods from their competitors.

Meanwhile, in the CENTRALLY ARCHITECTED SOCIETY (CAS) all was serene
and progressing with deliberate speed. The leaders of CAS developed
a ten year architecture to provide housing for its citizens.  They 
also developed ten year architectures for food and clothing.  There was no
chaos in CAS, no price gouging, no wasted resources on competition or
marketing or advertising.  Indeed, in CAS, these anti-societal activities
were outlawed.  The occassional CAS citizen trying to profit from the
sale of an outlawed Market Driven Society (MDS) product could be 
shot - or exiled to a distant, frozen, wasteland.  Those citizens who 
did meet their ten year goals were rewarded with their faces placed on 
posters - proclaiming them as citizen heros.

But, a funny thing happened.  After a 1/2 century experiment it became
obvious to all Earthlings that the people in the market driven society 
were better fed, better clothed, better housed and happier than their 
CAS counterparts. 

The ten year CAS architectures never worked out, even though the architects
constantly returned to the government with new and better ten year 
architectures, and the government constantly provided central funding 
to allow the producing bureaucracy to meet architecture goals. 

The CAS stores were empty, the CAS housing market was non existent, and
there was no free flow of goods, services or ideas in CAS.  CAS citizens 
were generally unmotivated while MDS citizens were constantly striving 
to find newer and better goods and services to sell.

Ironically, the CAS founders had been right.  The Market Driven Society 
did waste resources on advertising and marketing and competition.  There was 
little consistency in how MDS business approached their work. There were 
some MDS citizens who were homeless and went without food - because they had 
no money. Indeed, MDS needed to create a sub society - the welfare society - 
to handle these citizens.

But, despite the rightness of the CAS founders, it was the MDS society 
that thrived and prospered while CAS slowly whithered away.  What had 
happened?  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, this is not really a fable.  Western Europe, the U.S. and Japan
are all examples of successful market driven, capitalistic societies, while 
Russia, China and Eastern Europe are all examples of failed, centrally 
architected societies.

People involved in helping to build Digital's information
society, who try to answer questions like "should information be
free" should look at this world's societies for answers before going
off to experiment - with ideas that have already failed in Eastern
Europe, Russia and China.

Why did the well motivated marxist architectures for five and ten year
food, clothing and housing plans consistently fail to materialize,
even though central funds were regularly made available for their 
implementation?

Why were citizens of marxist societies generally unmotivated?  

Why did the capitalistic society that wasted resources
on competition, advertising and marketing thrive - while the society that
did everything consistently fail?  

What was the flaw in the thinking of the marxist founders who believed 
that making things free would make them available?

Why did the consistency of the marxist societies fail to be as
efficient as the competition of the capitalistic societies?

Is there, perhaps, value in the absence of central funding in 
capitalistic societies - requiring service and goods suppliers to fend for 
themselves in a market driven economy?

Let's not build a Digital information society on the basis of failed
notions of past societies.  One only needs to look at the failure
of marxist societies to realize:

1...No Digital information group should ever be regularly funded
with direct or allocated funds.  We know from historical evidence that 
services and goods are more available and of a better quality when 
producers are funded by their customers.

2...No mandate should exist that requires information or data to be free.
We know that goods and services flow more freely and copiously in 
societies that charge for them.

3...No major efforts should be made to legislate consistency of information
systems. We know from history that consistency does not yield efficiency, 
competition does.

    Just a small addendum to the fable - most of the 'capitalist' free
    market countries mentioned, and indeed the most successful ones in the
    past decade, have significant central architecting, i.e., trade
    policy, industrial policy, 'socialized medicine', etc.  Things are
    rarely as one-dimensional as fables suggest. 
    
    Additionally, one of the classic postulates of microeconomic theory is
    that there be freely available information for all in order to reach an
    optimal equilibrium.
    
    John

    This information is obviously too valuable to disperse freely.
    
    If anyone would like my opinion on this subject, please send me
    $5.00.
    
    -Kevin
    

    Why is it that people insist on likening Digital to a "society"?  A
    SOCIETY must consider the welfare of:
    
    	(1) it's people
    	(2) the society itself
    
    A BUSINESS, on the other hand, must consider the welfare of:
    
    	(1) it's employees
    	(2) the corporation itself
    	(3) CUSTOMERS
    
    (The order presented above is arbitrary).  A SOCIETY can survive in
    isolation, if it needs to -- a SOCIETY can be self-contained.  A
    BUSINESS will fold quickly if it does not focus outside of itself.
    
    To quote Win Hindle in today's LIVEWIRE (emphasis is mine):
    

				 Worldwide News                      LIVE WIRE

              Snapshot of Digital's current challenges and plans

  At a recent address in Merrimack, N.H., Win Hindle, senior vice president, 
  discussed the challenges facing Digital today: 

  "Over the past six years we have built up work that is not essential.  We 
  have become too complex and now must simplify our company, our products, and 
  our total organization.  ALL OF OUR ENERGIES MUST BE FOCUSED OUT TO THE 
  CUSTOMER.  WE TEND TO WASTE TOO MUCH ENERGY INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER 
  RATHER THAN FOCUSING OUTWARD.
 
    ...
    
    Let's cut the nonsense and focus on CUSTOMERS!  The more time we spend
    hopping around tooting our own little horns and building our own little
    feudal entities, the less time we have for customers!  That's where our
    attentions SHOULD be!
    
    Digital ISN'T a SOCIETY!  Digital IS a BUSINESS!
    
    Tired of these games...
    
    -- Russ

    Running Digital as a business, focusing on customers, requires us to
    manage our information - and the costs associated with it - in a
    businesslike manner.
    
    We'd laugh at anyone who said "people are free," are "capital equipment
    is free."  We recognize that we must account for the costs of people
    and capital equipment, within the cost centers achieving customer
    oriented benefits from these resources.
    
    A businesslike approach to managing information would clearly have us
    accounting for information in the same way.
    
    Information is, of course, not free.  The only issue is, do we account
    for it in businesslike ways, or do we hide its costs.  I suspect that
    requiring a proper accounting of the costs associated with
    sharing information in NOTESfiles would greatly reduce the amount of
    information sharing - and greatly increase the usefulness of what was
    left.
    
    Our cost accounting system provides discipline that can be used to
    improve customer focus - obviously any group not adding to the selling,
    making or designing of products should go unfunded by direct or
    allocated funds.  The service organizations - be they personnel, site
    services, documentation groups or information services group, should
    only receive funding if they provide their internal customers (the ones
    selling, making and designing products) with competitive value added
    services - like good, useful information.
    
    Information - despite any macroeconomic theories - is never free. 
    There is always a cost for the developemnt and distribution of
    information - let's account for these costs in businesslike ways.
    

                              Info-Market

                           A proposal for an
                     Information Marketing Network


                                  by:
                           David Paul McLure
                       Senior Software Engineer
    			    Low End Systems
    		System Engineering Characterization Group
                       PK03-1/D18 DTN: 223-2561




        Someday soon, the entire world will be linked together in a
    high-speed electronic information network.  This network will serve
    as a bridge linking corporations, nations, and individuals together
    into an electronic world whose potential we have yet to fully fathom.
    The opportunity exists to place Digital at the helm of an historical
    undertaking: the challenge is one of providing the environment which
    best facilitates the interactions between people and information
    across this global network of potential customers.  The race is on
    to design and develop an electronic business world to meet this need.

        With open systems come open markets, and so the focus of this
    undertaking is an economic focus.  The staple product of such an
    electronic economic system then, is information in all of its ever-
    changing media and formats.  The currency in such a system will be
    global and therefore logical in nature as it will need to point to
    real money based on a variety of monetary exchange rates, and internal
    corporate funding.  The software environment necessary to provide for
    the free and open trade of information goods and services would need
    to be distributed, secure, efficient, manageable, expandable, as
    well as being both easy and fun to use.  This proposal outlines one
    possible implementation of such an information marketing system:
    the Info-Market.










        This proposal will first describe how an electronic free market
    system might operate, and then it will attempt to focus in on ways in
    which it might be implemented.  The important thing to consider while
    reading this proposal is the fact that information is quickly becoming
    the product of the future.  Part of the plan for such a future should
    then focus upon the increased awareness that information has a value,
    and that the electronic medium offered by computers will ultimately
    determine that value.  The remaining ingredient in such a plan is the
    notion of exactly how to facilitate the free flow of information while
    at the same time providing security and a return on investment (ROI)
    for both the information producers and consumers, as well as for the
    providers of information storage and exchange, and resource management
    of the overall Info-Market network.

Requirements:

        It isn't enough to simply provide a useful information system and
    hope that people use it.  People need a very good reason before they
    will bother to familiarize themselves with yet another computer system
    environment.  Obviously, the system must provide a worthwhile environment
    for the transfer of information goods and services, but many such systems
    are already in existence (such as CompuServe, Prodigy, Fidonet, MCI ONE,
    etc.), so DEC must provide an additional incentive which would set its
    information system far above the existing sorts of on-line computer
    services.  The missing ingredient in most all of the existing computer
    services is the ability for individuals to not only purchase things in
    such an environment, but to sell things as well.  What is needed then
    is a system which acts as a window into an entirely new world of business:
    an electronic land of opportunity.

        This electronic land of opportunity would serve as a foundation
    from which entrepeneurs could then build entire worlds of on-line
    businesses.  The concept is really very simple and it requires that
    we provide Info-Market users with the basic means for economic exchange
    of information goods and services.  The Info-Market system would need
    to provide a foundation for free enterprise which would allow people
    to display, shop, sell, purchase, deliver, and access electronically
    stored information.  Once these basic free market functions are in place,
    the magic of free enterprise will enable the creation of vast electronic
    super-cities and ultimately a global village of interconnected peoples:
    all trading and communicating with one another in peace and harmony.










Product Definitions:

    	The Info-Market product would consist of one basic user software
    package, and several basic service software packages.  The Info-Market
    user software package would provide an Info-Market user with the minimum
    they would nee to access and utilize the overall Info-Market system.
    In addition to the basic Info-Market user service package, the Info-Market
    would be made up of various service packages as well.  These service
    packages would represent additional pieces of software necessary to
    construct a full-functioning Info-Market environment.

	The Info-Market would be made up of many different types of users,
    (Info-Users) each with a slightly different "official" role in the
    global economic picture.  The truly democratic feature of such a free
    market system however, would be that any given Info-User could potentially
    be both a producer and a consumer of information goods and services (known
    as Info-Items).  As such, in addition to a person's official role in the
    global economic picture, everyone is potentially an Info-User of the system.

    	Info-Items which are made available on the Info-Market would need
    to be stored in a secure environment on the Info-Market.  These Info-Item
    stores (Info-Stores) would represent one of the various services in a
    given Info-Market.  Another key component of the Info-Market would be
    a system of economic exchange for Info-Items.  This monetary exchange
    (Info-Money) could be used to purchase Info-Items from Info-Stores,
    and the transaction of Info-Money for Info-Items would be handled by
    yet another Info-Market service: the Info-Bank.

Product Description:

        The Info-Market would provide an environment which would foster
    the creation of an entirely new world of electronic businesses.
    Businesses of most any conceivable type would be able find their
    own niche in such a flexible environment.  Info-Items sold in such an
    environment would range from user programs, to support, to classified
    ads, to entertainment, to education, to most anything that might be
    able to translate itself to that medium.  Tangible items such as hardware
    (or even things such as automobiles, boats, planes, food, or anything
    else for that matter) might be advertised and even sold in such an
    environment (utilizing the latest in technology for their ads).  There
    is really no reason why the Info-Market system couldn't be used to
    sell virtually anything!










        Info-Item producers would be given the chance to truly test out
    their entrepeneurial skills as they would be limited only by the boundaries
    of their imaginations in such an environment.  Since Info-Items would
    be provided for sale at will by any particular Info-User in this open
    market, producers would be driven by extremely tough competition to
    provide the best quality of a particular piece of information in the
    Info-Market.  Pricing would be entirely up to the producer and/or the
    retailer of a given Info-Item, and the true value of a given Info-Item
    would be determined by the laws of supply and demand.

	In addition to being potential producers and consumers of Info-Items,
    certain users in a given Info-Market system could take on other roles as
    well.  These basic user roles (as well as the basic Info-Market businesses
    and their respective domains) are outlined below:

	+-------------------------------------------------------------+
	|  Info-Market Network                                        |
	|  ===================                 +------------------+   |
        |  1. Network Administrators           |  Info-Store #n   |   |
	|  2. Network Technicians           +------------------+  |   |
	|  3. Info-Users                    |  Info-Store #2   |  |   |
        |                                +------------------+  |  |   |
        |  +-----------------------+     |  Info-Store #1   |  |--+   |
        |  | Info-Bank             |     |  =============   |  |      |
	|  | =========             |     |  1. Managers     |--+      |
        |  | 1. Executives         |     |  2. Salespeople  |         |
	|  | 2. Financial Analysts |     +------------------+         |
	|  +-----------------------+                                  |
	+-------------------------------------------------------------+

	The above diagram illustrates the relative working relationships
    between the basic roles in an Info-Market environment.  Info-Users
    would basically include any user on the network who has an Info-Market
    account with the Info-Bank.  Network Administrators and Managers
    have the added roles of insuring the smooth running of the overall
    Info-Market environment.  Bank Executives would typically be in charge
    of one or more dedicated systems on the network especially designed
    to handle transaction processing (DECtp).  An Info-Bank would be staffed
    by Financial Analysts to make sure that Info-Money matters which relate
    to the Info-Market economy are handled properly.  The Info-Store
    Managers would own and manage systems on the network which would
    be dedicated to facilitating both the storage of Info-Items, as well
    as managing user shopping access to these Info-Items.  Info-Store
    Salespeople could assist consumers in locating and purchasing Info-Items.










    	In order to support the overall Info-Market environment, there
    would be a variety of automated user and storage fees, as well as
    Info-Item transaction taxes in place to effectively fund and support
    the underlying Info-Market service structure.  These features, along
    with an expandable set of statistical tracking capabilities for the
    various Info-Items bought and sold could all be included in the overall
    software system so as to keep the level of system maintenance bureaucracy
    and associated red tape to a minimum.

	There are three logical realms in a basic Info-Market environment:
    The Info-Market network itself, the Info-Store systems, and the Info-
    Bank.  Other realms could be added later, but they could most likely
    be handled as subfunctions of these basic three realms.  Administrators
    of the overall Info-Market could be supported by funds collected from
    Info-User, Info-Bank, and Info-Store network usage (similar to the way
    a phone company might charge for a phone service).  Systems hosting
    Info-Stores could be supported by funds from automated retail markups
    on Info-Items sold at a given Info-Store, as well as from traditional
    user account fees for a given set of system users.  Transaction processing
    systems hosting Info-Banks could be supported by information transaction
    fees (similar in concept to a sales tax), as well as income from loans,
    and other typical sorts of banking ventures.  Note that the existing
    model only contains a single Info-Bank (for simplicity), but larger and
    more complex Info-Market environments might require multiple Info-Banks
    to help insure competitive rates as well as to reduce information
    transaction bottlenecks.

Packaging:

        The Info-Market system would need to provide people with a means
    of packaging and placing a given Info-Item up for sale on the Info-Market
    such that other people could then purchase and access that Info-Item
    directly without ever needing to leave the network environment.  In
    order to provide security for Info-Item stores, they could be stored
    in a packaged format that would only become accessible to a given
    information consumer after it had been purchased.

    	In VAXnotes terminology, the given Info-Item might appear to be
    "SET HIDDEN" until purchased (with the exception that a package might
    allow a description file to be displayed in place of the actual Info-
    Item itself to describe exactly what the Info-Item includes so as to
    help the potential consumer make up their mind).  Also, keep in mind
    that there could be many potential conversations surrounding a given
    Info-Item in an Info-Store, so the consumer might also see customer
    testimonials as well (except in the case of a yet unpurchased Info-Item).










Info-Stores:

	Producers in the Info-Market environment would have the choice of
    where they wish to sell their Info-Items, just as Consumers would also
    have the choice of where to shop for their Info-Items.  The typical place
    to sell Info-Items on the Info-Market would be in an Info-Item store
    (Info-Store).  Users wouldn't have to sell Info-Items though an Info-
    Store as they could also conceivably sell directly to each other by
    simply sending Info-Money in exchange for information goods and services,
    but such an exchange would require either real-time coordination of both
    buyer and seller, or would require some sort of billing mechanism (and
    associated collection agency for those who don't pay their bills). The
    easier (and surely the more common) approach would be to sell packaged
    information goods and services as Info-Items through Info-Store outlets.

	As retailers, Info-Stores would most likely charge a retail mark-up
    on Info-Items (thereby reducing the potential profits somewhat for a
    Producer of a given Info-Item).  The advantage of buying and selling
    Info-Items through an Info-Store however, would be that the Info-Store
    could provide an enhanced level of visibility, marketing, and customer
    satisfaction for any given Info-Item.  Quality assurance could also be
    provided by having retailers screen Info-Items and then (depending upon
    the particular reputation of the given Info-Store) perhaps only carry
    what they consider to be higher-quality Info-Items.

	Given the potential Info-Store profits via Info-Item markups, an
    Info-Store might also be staffed with Info-Store Salespeople who would
    be eager to assist a given information consumer in finding what they need.
    Software enhancements could also be considered to automate the various
    working relationships between Info-Stores and their Info-Sales staff
    providing automatic salary and/or sales commissions for Info-Items sold.

Info-Bank:

    	To coordinate the economics of information transactions, a distributed
    information banking system (Info-Bank) would need to exist in order to
    provide information transaction processing capabilities to participants
    of a given Info-Market system.  A networked system with the basic Info-
    Market user service package installed would first need to register its
    users with a given Info-Bank (or Info-Banks) before users on that
    particular system would qualify for Info-Market information transactions.










	Info-Banks would deal only in Info-Money (which is similar to
    the way poker chips are used in a gambling casino).  Info-Money would
    represent a standard monetary exchange across a given Info-Market (the
    actual value of which would vary relative to the value of Info-Money on
    other such Info-Markets).  Info-Market to Info-Market transactions could
    be made possible through an added layer of Info-Money exchange rate
    software, and could act similarly to the way foreign exchange rates
    function in the real world economy.  These same functions would be
    utilized when merging diverse Info-Markets into a single Info-Market.
    Such a strategy will allow an Info-Market to start small in several
    diverse market regions, and eventually expand and multiply connecting
    the smaller Info-Market installations into larger installations, with
    the ultimate potential Info-Market comprising the entire world economy.

User Accounts:

        Individuals could be represented side by side in the Info-Market
    with small businesses, corporations, and even political nation-states 
    as full-fledged entrepeneurs, each with a unique user account which
    would be registered with one or more Info-Banks as an independent
    business entity.

        In an electronically distributed free market system, a single
    network node might house any given number of individual Info-Market
    users (Info-Users).  As mentioned above, these Info-Users would need
    to have accounts on a system which had previously been registered with
    the Info-Bank in order to qualify for Info-Market bank accounts.  It
    would therefore be primarily between the user, a given system manager,
    and the Info-Bank to determine exactly what sort of monetary exchange
    would take place in terms of Info-Money to real money between the
    Info-Bank and the Info-User.

    	This relationship would then allow a given on system an Info-Market
    network a certain amount of freedom in determining their own economic
    subsystem.  Such a method would ultimately allow for a global economy
    made up of a many faceted system of politically diverse subeconomies,
    as well as allowing for many different types of people to interact in
    the same Info-Market environment.  A typical example could involve a
    case in which DEC might own and manage an Info-Market network, while
    also owning and operating a portion of systems on that network.  In
    this case, internal DEC employees, as well as potential DEC customers
    would all be able to trade Info-Items amongst each other in the same
    network environment.









    
Security:

    	In order to provide a level of security such that internal people
    from a given corporation could communicate amongst themselves without
    divulging information to other people on the same Info-Market, each
    Info-User could be identified by a particular Info-Market function,
    combined with their specific business logo into a function/business
    target market coding system.  These target market codes could be used
    to limit access of certain Info-Items to a specific target market and
    would need to be consist of Info-Market function and business logo
    codes which are registered with the Info-Market Administration.

    	A simple Info-Market function coding system might consist of a
    two-letter code which would designate certain user characteristics.
    A sample set of function codes might be broken into the following
    categories:

     Code   Function
     ====   =================================
      *   - Info-User (Generic Producer/Consumer)
      MA  - Info-Market Administrator
      MN  - Info-Market Network Technician
      SM  - Info-Store Manager
      SS  - Info-Store Salesperson
      BE  - Info-Bank Executive
      BF  - Info-Bank Financial Analyst

    	A business logo (on the other hand) could correspond to a given
    business entity within the Info-Market and could be identified by a
    short key string.  For example, DEC would probably want to register
    either the "DEC", or "digital" character string as their official
    Info-Market business logo.  Individuals could also register themselves
    with a business logo in order to be able to have certain Info-Items be
    limited to only their particular access as well.  Without such a business
    logo, an individual would fall under the generic producer/consumer
    business entity of "*" (wildcard).
 
    	The Info-User function code and business logo could then be
    combined together using a delimiter such as "/" to form various target
    market specifications.  More than one code for either the Info-User
    function or the business logo might be allowed in the form of a text
    string enclosed in quotes (such as "BE BF" for both Bank Executives,
    and Financial Analysts), while the "*" or "%" wildcards could be employed
    to simplify the above Info-User function code to simply B*.










    	Using the above syntax, some fairly specific target markets could be
    specified as being the only potential customers for a given Info-Item.
    In the case of an Info-Market with five major corporations (all using
    the semi-obvious business entity logos of: DEC, IBM, HP, FORD, GM),
    together with the standard set of Info-User function codes listed above,
    Info-Items might be packaged for sale to the following specific target
    markets:

    Target Market		Meaning
    ====================	=============================================
    */DEC	         	Any DEC employee
    B*/DEC			Any Info-Bank functions who are DEC employees
    *F/*			Any Financial Analysts
    MA/"DEC FORD"		Only DEC or Ford Info-Market Administrators
    "MN SM"/*			Any Network Technicians, or Store managers

    	Such a system, when combined with the ability to totally restrict
    certain entire stores to limited users as well, would provide a means
    of security (assuming the Network Managers who allot these code names
    do so judiciously).  The resulting Info-Store security from such a system
    of information access would then function similarly to the way a file
    on a typical computer system has various system, owner, group, and
    world access characteristics to limit access to that file.

        One side-effect of the Info-User and Info-Item classification system
    is that it would allow for a select group of discounts to be associated
    with a given set of Info-Items.  For example, an Info-Item might cost
    $100 on the open market, but only $50 to fellow Info-Users who all belong
    to the same business entity.  This would allow for such things as employee
    discounts in the typical case.  Such a feature could also be employed to
    impose trade tariffs and taxes on goods in a case where an entire nation's
    economy is represented as a given business entity on the Info-Market.

        The overall system of access security in the information network
    then would be based upon the classification of both the users, as well
    as the business entities of the Info-Market as pertains to the access
    to Info-Items stored in a given Info-Store.  ROI, on the other hand,
    would be provided by monetary exchange of Info-Money for Info-Items.
    A given Info-User would not only be limited to information which is
    both accessible to their given Info-User function and business entity,
    but would further be limited to only the sort of information which they
    could actually afford to purchase.










    	The security of the entire Info-Market network environment would
    be handled by the Network Administrators and Technicians, and could be
    based on a somewhat more familiar model of network security.  Within
    an Info-Market network itself however, added levels of security could
    be provided for the various Info-Market services provided.  Security
    for the Info-Market services could be divided into two basic categories: 

    	1.  Security for Info-Items

    	2.  Security for Info-Money

    	Info-Item security issues would be the primary responsibility of
    the given Info-Store which stores the Info-Item.  This assumes that the
    various Info-Users would all have a secure method of storing their own
    Info-Items within their own personal network accounts (either before or
    after they are actually traded in an Info-Store).  Likewise, Info-Money
    security issues would be the primary responsibility of the Info-Bank.
    Info-Market service software would ultimately need to provide this sort
    of service security functionality.  The Info-Market Network Administrators
    would need to act as mediators in any sort of disputes involving Info-Money
    or Info-Items (although there is a possibility of creating other roles
    for this sort of thing; the titles Info-Police, Info-Court, and even
    perhaps Info-Jail ring a bell).

Network:

	An Info-Market would comprise a collection of network management,
    Info-Store, Info-Bank, and generic Info-User systems on a single network.
    Each Info-Market could itself be either within the exclusive domain of
    a single business entity (such as a completely DEC-owned Info-Market),
    or ideally, a given Info-Market might be managed by one business entity
    which then leases various connections to many different business entities
    (all trading Info-Items with one another in the same Info-Market from
    their separate Info-Stores and user systems).  Info-Market networks
    themselves could be physically implemented as individual [DECnet] networks,
    which could then be linked to other Info-Markets via network gateways
    using existing (and eventually future) DECnet LAN and WAN technologies.

        Shopping in such a 24-hour electronic information environment would be
    just like logging-in as a user on a system in a DECnet network environment
    except Info-Market user accounts could also be set up as captive accounts
    to allow external customers to access the Info-Market in addition to the
    somewhat more familiar case of an internal corporate employee user account.
    Info-Market user accounts would provide transparent network communications
    capabilities enabling users to easily move from one Info-Store to another
    within an Info-Market network (assuming the Info-Stores in question were
    not themselves restricted to an exclusive user membership list).










	The best analogy for this sort of information shopping would be found
    by examining the way a VAXnotes user typically moves freely from notesfile
    to notesfile on the network gathering and disseminating information.  So
    close is the VAXnotes environment to the proposed Info-Market environment
    in fact, that it is quite possible that with a few added commands and
    utilities, the VAXnotes product itself could be enhanced to provide the
    Info-Market software system necessary to achieve the goal of this proposal
    (see the Implementation section for more details on this idea).

    	An Info-Market could theoretically be set-up on a single non-
    networked system able to function by itself in a smaller environment.
    Such a stand-alone Info-Market might be suitable for smaller closed-
    economy environments and might negate the need for any Info-Market
    Network Administrators and Network Technicians.  However, the real
    advantage of networking an Info-Market would be both the higher
    potential profits available by the resulting broader customer base,
    as well as simply the improved quantity and quality of imported
    Info-Items from a broader market as well.  Converting from a stand-
    alone Info-Market economy to a network-scale Info-Market economy would
    initially involve negotiations between various system managers and
    the Info-Market Network Administrators and Technicians, and eventually
    the Info-Bank would also need to get involved to set-up any new network
    Info-User bank accounts.  Info-Stores would typically function the same
    way in either environment.

Transactions:

    	In order to purchase an Info-Item, a potential consumer would
    first access the Info-Store they wish to shop in, and then they would
    select a given Info-Item package they wish to purchase.  Assuming the
    consumer has enough Info-Money left in their bank account to purchase
    the Info-Item, and the consumer has clearance to access that particular
    Info-Item (the consumer is within the specified target market audience
    of the given Info-Item in the case in which a target market is actually
    specified), then an information transaction would take place (Info-Money
    would transfer from the consumer's bank account to a variety of different
    destination bank accounts based on producer profits, transaction taxes,
    rebates, retailer fees, etc.).  Once the transaction had successfully
    completed, the Info-Item package shell would be "opened" and the data
    inside would become accessible to the consumer.  The consumer could then
    either copy the information to their own system, perform a screen dump,
    or simply read/view the information interactively.










    	Each Info-Item would need to contain a list of all consumers of that
    particular Info-Item.  This list would serve the multi-purpose function
    of being both an automatic marketing analysis tool used to analyze the
    relative successes of any given Info-Item, as well its primary purpose
    as that of a "proof of purchase" that a given set of consumers actually
    purchased a given Info-Item.  These individual customer lists would serve
    as permanent records of all transactions in the Info-Market.  The resulting
    audit trail would be the only real proof that any given set of transactions
    actually took place, and would therefore be regarded as a legal document
    or receipt verifying the monetary wealth of each individual Info-User.

    	These customer lists would therefore be regarded as the actual gold
    base for such an economic system.  Great lengths would need to go towards
    the development of a secure storage and validation system for these lists.  
    The existence of the list would allow a consumer to purchase an entire
    series of Info-Items in a single set of purchases, and return later to
    actually access the information stored in those Info-Item packages.
    In addition to serving as a proof of purchase, the lists could also be
    used to easily facilitate any sort of rebates, royalties, guarantees,
    refunds, exchanges, or other such retailing functions as deemed necessary.

    	Info-Items would typically be textual files containing some sort
    of data, but they wouldn't be limited to that.  Imagine the possibility
    of a future Info-Market in which a given Info-Store functions as a
    movie theatre, a video rental store, a vacation travel agency, a video
    telephone, a source of 3-dimensional printing or modeling data which
    could create actual objects, as well as an infinite set of other sorts
    of electronically stored information goods and services which have yet
    to be invented.

    	The initial sale of an Info-Item would be relatively straight-forward.
    Being the first such sale, the consumer would have little to go on in
    terms of customer testimonials.  A system of rebates could be set up to
    encourage initial investors.  The rebate system would work by dividing
    the profits from each Info-Item sale among both the producer, the Info-
    Bank (transaction fee), and pre-existing Info-Item customer base.  This
    royalty, tax, and rebate system (respectively) would not only provide
    the producer with ROI, and the Info-Bank with funds to operate, but the
    added rebate would also provide the consumers of Info-Items the ability
    to actually invest in the future profits of a given Info-Item.










    	The rebate system would serve to discourage plagiarism of information
    goods and services sold in such an environment as a consumer would only
    be competing against their own potential rebate earnings (not to mention
    the risk of damaging their reputation as legitimate Info-Item producers
    and/or retailers) were they to attempt to resell a given Info-Item with
    little or no added value.  The names of each Info-Item customer would
    already be stored with each Info-Item, so the rebate system should not
    overly impact the development costs. 

    	The potential for added network traffic from such a rebate/royalty/
    transaction-fee mechanism cannot be underestimated (especially for Info-
    Items with long customer lists), but this problem could be addressed by
    providing a rebate log within each Info-Store which could be added to for
    each new Info-Item sold.  Every so often, the entire log could be submitted
    as data with a command procedure as a batch job which would first crunch
    the data down according to individual customers, and then submit each
    customer's rebate/royalty/transaction-fee total transaction separately.
    If the resulting network traffic from such a batch job proved to be too
    heavy, then another alternative might be to count all rebates as credits
    and allow Info-Users to use those credits towards the purchase of other
    Info-Items within a given Info-Store.

        Another such investment idea might involve a system in which one
    could invest in a particular Info-Item or service independently of
    actually purchasing the Info-Item itself.  By offering dividends to
    Info-Item investors, a given Info-Item would operate similarly to a
    stock market investment.  There are many other sorts of investment
    opportunities possible here as well, and most might simply be implemented
    as auxiliary programming efforts either concurrent to, or as additional
    Info-Market services separate from the basic Info-Market system development.
    The following section deals more specifically with such implementation
    issues.

Implementation:

        In order to design an information system, we need an information
    architecture.  Fortunately, most of the pieces to this puzzle already
    exist.  We already have standards for the various electronic data which
    can be transferred across a network (DDIF, TDIF etc.), and as for the
    network itself, we have DECconnect for the various media interfaces,
    and DECnet (Phase V and beyond) as a standard network protocol.  Given
    the entire array of DEC systems to act as client and server systems in
    such a network, and a worldwide favorite in office automation software
    (ALL-IN-1) which, combined with DECwindows and DECforms, could provide
    a standard interface into what could easily become the most popular
    application environment to ever hit the network.










    	DEC is fortunate to also have a new line of transaction processing
    systems designed specifically to handle on-line transactions.  Using
    DECtp for the actual information transactions, combined with a complete
    array of network servers and workstation client systems and terminals to
    make up the user interface, DEC would be poised to provide a complete
    Info-Market system to the world.  What DEC would need then is the software
    application necessary to both interface with the Info-Market users, as
    well as to process the resulting information transactions.

        In order to better understand exactly what the Info-Market might
    look like from a product perspective (especially for those who have
    to consider the merits of such an undertaking), it is best to take a
    step back for a momment and examine some of DEC's existing products
    which can serve as models for such a system.  There have been many
    database systems written at DEC, and we already provide many different
    types of applications which effectively interface with such databases,
    but their is one DEC product which stands out as being one of the most
    revolutionary products to hit the network in a long time, and that is
    the VAXnotes conferencing product.  This tool is so popular, that it
    has become the primary source of information on the entire internal
    Digital network, and it is especially useful to remote employees in
    the field (as they get to experience the same sort of camaraderie as
    employees in corporate headquarters when using the VAXnotes network
    conferencing tool).

        While the various network notesfiles which make up the internal
    VAXnotes information databases are not always very well organized, nor
    is there necessarily any real monetary incentive for users to provide
    information to other users in the system, the advantage to this sort of
    medium over even the most efficient of storage systems is that people
    truly enjoy the human interactions they experience in the various network
    notesfile environments.  Most databases require a staff of data entry
    clerks in order to enter the necessary information on-line.  In contrast,
    the internal VAXnotes environment has grown to its enormous size in just
    under seven years time almost entirely out of the blue!  Employees find
    that network noting is such a rewarding medium in and of itself, that many
    consider the mere recognition they receive from providing such information
    to be an adequate reward and they voluntarily enter such information in
    their own spare time (even if the information entered has little or nothing
    to do with their real jobs).  A good deal of revenue from such a proposed
    information network then could potentially come in the form of system
    user fees from people who might simply be using the network to converse
    with one another.










        In addition to providing producers and consumers with access to a
    market of information goods and services then, the Info-Market would also
    need to provide users with a means of carrying on conversations with
    other people in the system.  The relative importance of the human element
    in a computer environment is easily overlooked.  Perhaps one of the best
    reasons for chosing a multi-user computing environment over that of a
    stand-alone PC environment is the added level of human interaction.
    No matter what sort of software system is ultimately used in such an
    environment, no computer system by itself will ever be able to totally
    compete with a system which incorporates the human factors and user-
    friendliness possible when actual humans are featured at the other end
    of the interactive session.  This single human factor found in multi-user
    environments is the very key to Digital's success (as well as survival)
    in the future as DEC's entire computing philosophy revolves around such
    a multi-user/networking environment.

    	The enhancements needed to transform the VAXnotes environment into a
    minimal Info-Market environment would include (but not be limited to):

    	o  Info-Market network management and administrative functions
    	    o  Info-Bank and Info-Store (Info-Services) registration
    	    o  Info-User registration
    		o  Customizable Info-User function codes
    		o  Customizable business entity codes
    		o  Distributed name servers for above codes

	o  Distributed banking system
    	    o  Info-Item for Info-Money transactions
    	    o  Rebate/royalty/transaction-fee batch submission procedure
    	    o  Customer lists associated with each Info-Item

	o  VAXnotes user command enhancements
	    o  Notes> BUY [note_number]
	    o  Notes> SEND/AMOUNT=<$> [nodename::username]
	    o  Notes> SET NOTE/PRICE=<$> [note_number]
	    o  Notes> SHOW NOTE [note_number]
    	        o  Expanded to show marketing statistics on a given Info-Item.

	o  Security enhancements
	    o  Info-Item package record locking
    		o  Check against Info-User function/business classification
    		o  Atomic transaction processing to assure adequate funds for
    		   a given purchase are available before unlocking package.










Prototyping:

    	One possible method of prototyping a similar sort of environment
    would be possible using the VAXnotes utility as it stands together
    with a command procedure to periodically count replies to a given
    note.  The way it could work is that a notesfile would be created,
    and all users involved in the prototype system would agree to the
    following rules:

    	o  The first few notes would be reserved for postings of status
    	   reports for the experiment.

    	o  Any basenote would represent the "package" of an Info-Item for sale.

    	o  Any reply to a basenote would represent a "BUY" of that Info-Item.

    	o  A program would periodically read and tally all Info-Items "sold"
    	   tallying each sale (in addition to any rebates, royalties, or
    	   transaction-fees) and would present various status reports in
    	   one of the reserved notes.

        Given the implementation requirements, combined with anything unusual
    noticed during the simulation that might cause a reevaluation of the
    overall proposal, the possibility exists of taking the existing VAXnotes
    product and add some of the commands and features mentioned above, and
    together with an auxiliary transaction processing system to act as a
    banking system, we could begin prototyping the Info-Market within months!
    Perhaps if enough attention were focused on this effort, a working
    prototype information network could even be announced and displayed
    at DECWORLD 90 or at least in time for DECVILLE 90!

        Assuming other companies will eventually want to define their
    own sorts of information market networks, it will be advantageous
    to be the first to announce such a system as from that point on people
    will tend to look to Digital as the provider of such a revolutionary
    system.  The Info-Market architecture we provide could quickly be
    adopted as a standard information marketing architecture using the
    many existing data definition standards we have already adopted as
    basic building blocks, adding a final layer of standardization to
    include such concepts as information class, price, guarantees,
    as well as other sorts of information marketing statistics.

                           David Paul McLure

    Reality Check:	Too Long.  I passed.  Might have even been
			something I could have helped.

    
    Makes you appreciate the wisdom of those wonderful NOTES folks who gave
    us "NEXT UNSEEN"...
    

re: .104,.103,

	If you want the short & sweet version, see note 915.64.

	Another such idea as the Info-Market already being implemented.

	Reprinted without permission from Vogon News (courtesy of Jim Flemming):

				~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Amix - Information, bid and asked
	{Forbes, 20-Aug-90, p. 92}
	{Commentary by Esther Dyson}
   This is the age of the information economy and the age of the free market.
 Perhaps it is time we had a more liquid market in information - a sort of data
 auction, complete with bid and asked prices. In 1984 Phillip Salin, 40,
 started building American Information Exchange (Amix), a cross between a stock
 market and an online information service. Using their computers hooked to Amix
 via modems, users will buy and sell data such as product surveys and Wall
 Street research after haggling electronically over the price. In 1988 Autodesk
 bought 80% of the company (the rest is owned by employees), but Autodesk,
 which develops and sells software, is now attempting to find an additional
 investor to share the $6 million or so cost of implementing the service. Pilot
 operations are planned for next winter. Aiming for a clientele that is already
 computer literate, Amix intends that the auctioned information will initially
 be about computers. If you are a stock analyst who follows Intel, you may
 offer to sell copies of your latest report. If your company is contemplating
 the purchase of laser printers, you may solicit advice about which brand is
 best in your situation. Or maybe you want some predictions about market share
 for Sun Microsystems' latest workstation. Competing bids come back from
 various experts. In some cases, the data consist of an electronic copy of an
 existing document, priced at perhaps as little as $2 or as much as $100. In
 other cases the information does not exist until it's asked for. The buyer is
 then in effect soliciting bids for consulting services - and bids will
 probably start at more like $20. Or a buyer might send a seller his data to
 load into the seller's proprietary spreadsheet or financial formula. Some
 vendors will offer custom services - a report plus one hour of telephone
 consultation, say. What keeps the sellers honest? Customers are invited to
 comment on the services or products they purchase for the benefit of other
 potential purchasers, but they must identify themselves to do so. No vendor
 may delete those comments, although he may respond to them. The goal is to
 have the system organize itself as the sellers and buyers gravitate to the
 proper topic areas, and prices respond to demand and competition; sellers as
 well as buyers can see what else is being offered. Aside from integrity and
 accounting rules enforced by the software, Amix has market managers, akin to
 local cops who know the neighborhood and can keep order and arbitrate
 disputes. When Autodesk first signed on for the project in June 1988, the plan
 was to come out with a system for in-house text databases. One big
 corporation would use it to help its employees share their information
 resources. Eventually, Autodesk correctly concluded that what might make Amix
 most special was a pricing philosophy. So the project was recast in February
 1989, but the investment required for a service as opposed to a boxed software
 project was far greater, and the time to profitability will be longer. In the
 broader sense, the auction market for intellectual property is already
 thriving: People buy and sell whole companies and market visions. Now they will
 be able to  buy and sell memos.

    (reprinted without permission from PC Computing Magazine, October,
    1990 - page 200)

        			"Hyper Ted
    	The man who gave us hypertext hopes to make a dream come true
    	with Xanadu, a visionary system for sharing human knowledge

    	Theodor Holm Nelson has earned the right to say "I told you so."

    	Thirty years after conceiving of Xanadu, a computerized repository
    of human knowledge - with any dcocument, image, animation, or note of
    music instantly accessible to anyone, anywhere - this iconoclast of the
    computer world is finally seeing his dream come true.  His software
    scheme is being tested, and the rest of the world will be able to use
    the initial component of Nelson's system next year, when Xanadu software
    is commercially released.

    	Nelson created the concept of hypertext.  His pioneering book,
    "Computer Lib/Dream Machines", published in 1974, inspired the leaders
    of the personal computer revolution while leaving him on the outside
    looking in.  Now he is telling anyone who will listen - including IBM
    and members of the U.S. Senate - how right he was when he envisioned
    Xanadu.  Although Nelson's dream was long deemed impractical by
    computerdom's experts ("chip-monks", as he calls them), the imminent
    availability of Xanadu software bears witness to his vision.

    	The Xanadu Hypermedia Information Server program, which will make
    Nelson's dream a reality, is software from the Xanadu Operating Company,
    owned by Autodesk, publisher of the top-selling CAD/CAM package, AutoCAD.
    At first, the Xanadu Hypermedia Information Server will run on Sun
    workstations to support the complex links for referencing documents and
    will be followed by server programs for higher-end IBM-compatable PCs,
    Apple Macintoshes and NeXT computers.

    	Xanadu's payoff for PC users should be the democratization of electronic
    publishing, as well as access to new and enriched forms of information
    services.  Those who run Xanadu on their local area networks will have
    a sophisticated electronic filing system linking related documents and
    materials, with version control and comparison (lawyers take note), as
    well as commentary (computer "post-it" notes ad infinitum).  For users
    of AutoCAD, Xanadu should mean a more efficient way of storing and
    retrieving elaborate computer-assisted design and manufacturing databases
    (cheers from engineers and architects).
    
    	With Xanadu running, you could read this profile of Nelson and his
    unswerving (some would say obsessive) vision of computopia on your
    computer screen, using the increasingly familiar principles of hypertext
    (a term Nelson coined) to branch off and learn more areas of particular
    interest, perhaps triggering a display of hypermedia (another Nelsonism)
    with a video of him or one of the scenes described here.  In addition,
    you might encounter written commentaries posted by Nelson after the article
    was published, along with commentaries from friends, enemies, colleagues,
    critics - and chipmonks.  By selecting the appropriate links between
    documents, you could see as much or as little ancillary information as
    you wanted.  In a later phase, you might attach your commentary and be
    rewarded with royalty payments from those who read your words.

    	For now, you'll have to settle for these linear words, as humans
    have had to do throughout the dark ages B.N. - before Nelson.

    	"Mr. Nelson goes to Washington"

    	The scene could be out of a new tech remake of the movie classic
    "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington."  Here, in a Senate hearing room on a
    warm, late summer's day in the company of such distinguished dark-suited
    witnesses as the Librarian of Congress and the chancellor of Vanderbilt
    University, sits a tall, wizened yet boyish figure dressed in an ill-
    matched, double-breasted jacket, windowpane-checked shirt and patterned
    tie.

    	He's here to testify before Senator Albert Gore's Subcommittee on
    Science, Technology and Space, explaining "computer technology and the
    new age of information" at the behest of a committee staffer who later
    describes him as "representing the next century of computing."  Ted
    Nelson rises extemporaneously to the occasion.

    	In a tone that Jimmy Stewart might use, Nelson says, "I'm not only
    honored to be here, I'm very moved.  Because for so many years I've
    been consigned to the lunatic fringe of computerdom - in fact, thought
    by some to *define* the lunatic fringe of computerdom."

    	"And you feel at home here, today, is that it?" jokes Senator Gore
    (D-Tennessee), tan, telegenic and blessed with excellent timing.  The
    rows of spectators in the hearing room respond with laughter.

	"The easiest way to say this is, 'I have a dream.' The year 2020, the
    2020 vision: a billion people are at their screens around the planet..."

    	Nelson continues, "Well, when I said that personal computers would
    replace the typewriter, they said I was crazy.  And when I said that
    hypertext was the new step in literature, they said I was crazy.  And
    when I said online libraries were coming, they said I was crazy...And
    now they call me a visionary."

    	More laughter, led by Gore.

    	At issue here is a bill introduced by Gore to formulate long-range
    information technology policy, including federal investment in a national
    computer network 50,000 times faster than the current network, linking
    U.S.-funded supercomputer centers at acedemic institutions across the
    nation.  The proposed 1-gigabit network, endorsed by the Bush Administra-
    tion, is expected to set standards through the 1990s for high-bandwidth
    communications, including information systems connected to offices and
    homes.  Several witnesses at the hearing compare the high-bandwidth
    computer network to the interstate highway system built with federal
    funds - as necessary for interstate commerce, as a way of keeping the
    Japanese at bay, as American as apple pie.

	Only Nelson manages to sound a paean to private enterprise by
    suggesting that the network proposal may not be sufficient: "We're
    not looking for a handout...We believe that the capacities of the
    information providers of this nation are going to absorb your
    bandwidth in three months or so of when it opens.

	"It's like the first Xerox machines...I was in various committee
    meetings where they were trying to decide whether a university could
    use a whole Xerox machine...And so, within a week, of course, the entire
    capability was sopped up.  Similarly for open hypertext publishing..."

	After a plug for Xanadu, Nelson concludes, "Now we look on you to
    give us the pathways, the superhighways for information to carry this
    stuff, but we think the private sector may be able to do alot more
    than you think for the digital libraries of tomorrow."

	With Gore vigorously agreeing and saluting private enterprise,
    this is one of Nelson's finest moments - in his own immodest estimation.
    Then again, he has trouble remembering his other finest momments.

		The Purple Prophet at Big Blue

	Ted Nelson suffers from chronic forgetfulness (as did 19th-century
    English poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who, when awakened from an exotic
    dream of Xanadu, struggled to recreate it in his poem _Kubla_Khan_).
    One reason the Nelson envisioned hypertext and Xanadu was to find a
    way to computerize and cross-reference the millions of cards and pages
    of notes he accumulates (one thought or idea per page) so he wouldn't
    forget.  He stored piles of his boxed, handwritten notes in Poughkeepsie,
    New York, and in San Antonio, Texas, where they accumulated storage
    charges for years before being transferred to a warehouse near his
    home in California's Marin County.

	If Nelson had his notes on Xanadu right now, he might recall
    another scene, just four days before his Senate appearance, when he
    addressed a small but avid audience at IBM's Thomas J. Watson Research
    Center.  Much of his reputation as a curmudgeon arose from his
    unrelenting criticism of IBM; he noted, for instance, in _Computer_
    _Lib/Dream_Machines_ that "IBM is, to my way of thinking, the way
    the Soviet Union would be if the Soviet Union worked."

	Nelson, still predicting IBM's demise while recognizing such
    positive accomplishments as the PC, is the last person you'd expect
    to see at IBM.

	Yet here he is in an office building in Westchester County,
    north of New York City, pacing before and addressing two dozen casually
    dressed IBM researchers in a small seminar room at one of Big Blue's
    most prestigious labs.  Sporting his sartorial trademark - purple
    shirt and purple socks - along with a conservative suit, his belt
    laden with pens and other paraphernalia, Nelson brings to mind a
    scholarly combination of Robin Hood and Cyrano de Bergerac, two of
    his childhood heroes.  "I always carry pens like swords in a scabbard,"
    Nelson explains later.  "I'm like a swordsman with words, always
    ready for a fight."

	Instead of a fight, Nelson is greeted with sympathetic smiles.
    "This is not my profession; this is my religion," he declares,
    launching into a freewheeling description of Xanadu.  The room seems
    filled with willing converts.  "I believe this represents the next
    stage in civilization, and it's absolutely imperative if there's
    to be any chance of human survival..."

	Nelson's theology is simple: We've been living in an informational
    Babel of incompatible formats and protocols, with worldwide catastrophie
    looming.  To save the planet, we must assure the availability of
    computerized documents that can be compiled, compared, footnoted
    and commented upon.  With all the necessary links and inclusions,
    this universal literary system will promote an orderly controversy
    of ideas, resolving misunderstandings and beckoning a new millennium.
    
	Ultimately, all publishing of magazines, books, movies, music
    and the like will be done with his open hypertext system "in that
    great computer in the sky, the storage repository, be it mainframe
    or network, to which we will all have access."

	For many years, those of little faith have argued that computer
    storage is too expensive to accommodate the massive memory needed to
    put every published document on earth online.  The exposive growth of
    computer memory and resulting plunge in costs have brough Nelson's
    vision to the realm of possibility.

	Still, his dogma's sticking point hjas been the problem that
    plagues all current databases: the proportionally greater lag in
    access time when when the size and complexity od a data pool increase.
    But Xanadu, of course, is not just another database; programming
    breakthroughs assure the system's goal of unlimited growth, with
    storage and retrieval algorithms that keep increased access time
    to a logarithmic curve - nearly flat for a large information base.

		    The McDonald's of Information

    	The Xanadu vision will remain incomplete until one important
    development, the implementation of which Ted Nelson has reserved
    for himself as sole licensee of Xanadu software for publishing
    with royalties.  His name for this application is Public Access
    Xanadu, a "licensed and franchised storage and forwarding service
    run along the lines of McDonald's."  Though the date may slip,
    Nelson predicts that Public Access Xanadu, or PAX, will begin
    operation in August of 1991.

	PAX will not deal with the public directly but will license
    franchises to "storage vendors," who will actually provide the
    licensed services and maintain the necessary support equipment.

	Nelson envisions PAX-franchised Silverstands, information stands
    that are the equivalent of McDonald's, where billions of documents
    are served.  Instead of the golden arches, Silverstands will be marked
    by the sign of the flaming X, a PAX trademark - the torch of freedom
    burning forever.

	Inside will be cheerful personnel in Star Trek-like uniforms
    signing up and assisting new PAX users, who can then access or
    publish documents at a workstation in the stand or telecommunicate
    with Xanadu from home or office.  A monthly bill from Silverstand
    would consist of charges for connect time, storage, transmission
    time, publication fees, publication registration fees and delivery,
    minus any credits for royalties from others reading the user's
    published words and/or images and sound.

	As McDonald's does, Nelson expects to recruit, with at least
    $400,000 in cash, hard-working, well-financed franchises willing to
    be trained in operations at Xanadu Central, patterned along the lines
    of Hamburger University.  To give franchises "the feeling of belonging
    to something more than a brokerage firm," PAX will have a travelling
    core of generalists and scholars who will set the corporate culture
    and tone for the stands.

	Nelson says of PAX: "This is an ideology.  This is something to
    believe in."

		   Inveighing Against Substitutes

	With the promised land in view, Nelson warns against the false
    prophets of current hypertext implementations.  "They just lead to
    Balkanization and chaos," he says of systems like Apple's HyperCard
    program, bundled with every Macintosh ("What if you want to add comments?"),
    and the much-touted charms of CD-ROM ("The good news is you can have
    400MB on your desk; the bad news is you can have *only* 400MB.  What
    good are 400MB?  I want everything.").  Only Xanadu, he says, has the
    potential to unify the complete realm of human knowledge.

	For the true believer, authentic hypertext capability will begin
    with the imminent release of the Xanadu Hypermedia Informartion Server.
    Still, after years of waiting for Xanadu to materialize, (a prototype
    was completed in 1988 but was put aside to add more features in the
    new design), how can even the faithful be certain that the product
    isn't yet another mirage?

	"For the first time Xanadu has offices, salaries, PERT charts,
    professional software development managers.  It's a whole new organization.
    They will definately deliver the products they're talking about."  So
    says Eric Drexler, author of the acclaimed _Engines_of_Creation:_The_
    _Coming_Era_of_Nanotechnology_ (Anchor Press, Doubleday, 1986) and a key
    contributor to Xanadu's software coding.  Drexler, chief programmer
    Mark Miller and keeper of the flame Roger Gregory are among the talented
    band of scientists and programmers attracted to Nelson's dream over
    the last decade, often contributing their time and ability during scarce
    leisure periods "in an atmosphere somewhere between Camelot and the
    Manhattan Project," as Nelson likes to describe it.

	Today's Xanadu Operating Company came into being in April 1988,
    when Autodesk purchased an 80 percent interest in the firm (see "One
    Company Stakes Its Future on Innovation," PC/Computing, September 1989,
    page 86).  As a result, the current president of Xanadu, Ron McElhaney,
    is Autodesk's vice president of engineering.  And though Nelson is the
    originator, prophet, guru, propagandist and conscience of Xanadu, his
    current status does not include an official role in the Xanadu Operating
    Company.

	As a Distinguished Fellow at Autodesk, which is headquartered in
    Sausalito, California, Nelson does get th wherewithal and time to travel
    extensively, spreading the word as he's doing at IBM (a week before, he
    was in Finland).  According to Nelson, "I make these speeches about the
    great world repository, and it makes it sound as though the Xanadu
    Operating Company's contribution, a piece of software that you will be
    able to buy, is just some footnote.  Whereas, in fact, it's what runs
    the whole thing."

	In charge of software administration for Xanadu is Marc Stiegler,
    who cautions that the realities of bringing a product to market may
    cast a different light on some of Nelson's statements about upcoming
    programs.  Already the relation of the software to Nelson's gospel,
    as set out in his self-published _Literary_Machines_ (Mindful Press,
    1981; 3020 Bridgeway, #295, Sausalito Calif. 94965, $25), is a matter
    of dispute.  As Steigler puts it: "Whatever Ted says that is true, we
    say that is true; whatever Ted says that is wrong, we say that's Ted."

	All parties agree that within months the Xanadu Hypermedia
    Information Server will offer the first document filing system software
    to support all forms of digital data (text, graphics, video and audio)
    with two-way hypertext links for branching to and from points of interest
    (also flexible "span-links" between groups of links) and the inclusion
    of documents within any other document without having to copy the entire
    text into it ("transclusion," which keeps all versions current).

	In database vernacular, the server software is a "back end," meant
    to maintain the links between documents but too complex in its demands
    for the user to retrieve a document and related materials to access
    directly.

	For that, third-party firms are expected to offer application
    programs, or "front ends."  The company will issue its own "exemplar
    front end" packages for IBM PC and Macintosh computers to provide
    generic capability to edit, save and retrieve hypermedia and "do for
    Xanadu what MacPaint and MacDraw did for the Macintosh," according to
    Steigler.  "But there's no right way to designa front end.  We expect
    as many front-end programs as there are specialized informational needs."
    Obvious candidates for Xanadu front ends are legal, acedemic and CAD/CAM
    file retrieval applications.

	In order to keep the core software as universal as possible, the
    Xanadu team is concentrating on back-end issues.  A standard joke:
    "How many Xanadu people does it take to screw in a light bulb?  None.
    That's a front-end problem."

	At the heart of Xanadu software is a new data structure invented
    by Eric Drexler and implemented by the programming group.  The structure
    allows access to as little as a single byte of data or the entire
    Xaniverse of available documents.

	Thanks to this data structure, documents stored and referenced
    on one network can quickly be integrated into or accessed by any other
    computer system running Xanadu.  The identifier should not be confused
    with another Xanaword - "xandle".  Like a handle on CB radio, a xandle
    is a unique identifying name for each user.  Special xandles are already
    being reserved for a $100 fee by the company.  Among the xandles reserved
    by Nelson are Generalistimo and Strategic Hamlet. (For Nelson's plans
    to promote public access to Xanadu, see "The McDonald's of Information,"
    [section copied earlier]).

			Other Hypertext Products 

	In the jargon of industry press releases and product announcements,
    the term hypertext, unmoored from the initial vision of its creator,
    describes a wide variety of products.  And according to Danny Goodman,
    a HyperCard developer and the author of _The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook_,
    users are confused.  "The name [HyperCard] is unfortunate," says Goodman.
    "In ideal hypertext, anything - any bit of art, text or music - can become
    a 'button.'  In HyperCard, that's just not possible.  You can't really
    create buttons on the fly."

	Hypertext has, however, inspired a number of useful products for the
    PC.  Although none of these delivers the power and flexibility of Nelson's
    ideal system, all of them can help you organize information into cards
    and stacks and establish links between related entries.

						-PATRICK WARD

		(see magazine article for more details on
		actual products, prices, and specifications).

	
			    Back to the Future

	The Xanadu dream dates back to the fall of 1960 and Nelson's term
    project for a graduate course at Harvard on computers in the social
    sciences.  The inspiration for Xanadu extends back another two decades,
    with an article by Vannevar Bush titled "How We May Thank" in the July
    1945 issue of _The_Atlantic_Monthly_.  Anticipating the information
    overload of today, Bush argued for the creation of a device he named a
    "Memex," an electronic desk that provides access to any text on any
    subject in seconds.  Realizing that such a system would require capabilities
    similar to paper-based literature and publishing, including citation,
    historical backtrack and attribution for royalty payments, Nelson
    devised a wish list for Xanadu.  Then he set about to make it a reality,
    writing thousands of lines of code in the early 60's.  Since then, he has
    concentrated on design, leaving the actual coding to others.

	In 1964, Nelson came up with the term 'hypertext' for the nonsequential
    writing with free user movement made possible by Xanadu.  Using the prefix
    "hyper-" from mathematics, where it means 'extended' or, as in 'hyperspace,'
    "having more than three dimensions," he coined a word he was certain would
    catch on like wildfire.  When it did, more than 20 years later, it
    reminded people of the use of 'hyper-' in psychology and medicine, where
    it denotes something extreme or pathological.

	"There is this awkward tension of terminology," Nelson admits.  The
    tension is hardly alleviated by such clumsy usage as the announcement
    for Scholastic's new HyperScreen, "The revolutionary program that brings
    hyperpower to everyone's classroom computer."

	To many computer users, hypertext was an incomprehensible notion
    until 1987, when Apple Computer ace programmer Bill Atkinson created
    a popular notecard-style software implementation of hypertext, the
    infamous HyperCard.

	Bundled with every Macintosh sold since then, HyperCard's hot buttons
    have become available to over 1 million users, but its hypertext capa-
    bilities are as limited in comparison with Xanadu's as Microsoft BASIC
    (still bundled with virtually every MS-DOS computer sold) is when compared
    with an efficient, stuctured prgramming language such as C (For more on
    HyperCard and similar programs for the PC, see [the article]).

	During Hypercard's development, Apple gave Ted Nelson short shrift,
    inviting him to its Cupertino, California headquarters, picking his
    brain at various levels of the company, from President John Sculley
    on down.  Nonetheless, Nelson remains saguine: "I don't feel I was
    exploited by Apple.  Their bringing out HyperCard gave me a lot of
    notoriety."

	In fact, Nelson's notoriety within the computer industry began in
    1974, when he published his oversize-format _Computer_Lib/Dream_Machines_,
    credited as the first personal computer book.  A humanist's-eye view
    of computers ad the culture surrounding them.  Nelson's individualistic
    tome influenced many of personal computing's soon-to-be successful
    entrepreneurs.  As Bill Gates, chairman of Microsoft, once recalled
    for journalist Howard Rheingold, "I came across Ted Nelson's book when
    I was in college, not long before I founded Microsoft.  And Nelson's
    vision of what personal computers could become was certainly inspiring
    to me."

	In 1987, Gate's Microsoft Press published a revised edition of
    _Computer_Lib/Dream_Machines_. [Editor's Note: The author of this article
    was the agent for Nelson's book contract with Microsoft Press but no
    longer has a financial interest in any of Nelson's projects.]  The
    new edition includes some self-congratulatory remarks by the author,
    printed in italics.  For example: "In going through this material again,
    I am amazed to see most of the important world issues of today clearly
    foreseen.  Starvation-filled lands, pie-in-the-sky defensive systems,
    and freedom of information will remain issues, unfortunately, for the
    indefinite future."

	For all of his prescience, some of Nelson's revisions to _Computer_
    _Lib_ acknowledge that he was wrong about certain things, like the TRAC
    language having a big impact: "It didn't.  (I even tried to argue Bill
    Gates out of BASIC, I thinkit may have been in '76.  That's funny enough
    to admit.)  I also thought the Apple II, with no lower case, had no future."

	Once Xanadu is up and running on a large enough system, Nelson wants
    to pursue his other interests, which include filmmaking.  He may even take
    advantage of one of the rewards of notoriety - a standing offer to use the
    high-tech editing facilities at Lucasfilm.

	"I still think of myself as a philosopher and filmmaker, primarily,"
    remarks this computer prophet.  "There's more to Ted Nelson than hypertext -
    and more to hypertext than anyone has seen."	

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Dilton, a frequent contributor to PC/Computing, has been covering
personal computing technology for 10 years.  He lives in Armonk, New York.
    
	

    The March 14, 1992 issue of _The_Economist_ has an article on
    page 83 about an information exchange.  I'll only type in some
    high-lights.
    			-John Bishop
    
    
    Information industries
    ----------------------
    
    New ideas on the block
    ======================
    
    Palo Alto
    
    	:
       In June the data-ports will open on first electronic market
    for information.  Called teh American Information Exchange (AMIX),
    and based in Palo Alto, it will act as an electronic trading floor...
    	:
       AMIX has been operating experimentally since June 1991.
    	:

From:	LKGMTS::LKGMTS::MRGATE::"WRLMTS::UMC::[email protected]" 18-MAR-1992 03:28:52.52
To:	TOOK::DMCLURE
CC:	
Subj:	[[email protected]: AMIX Press Release]

From:	[email protected]@UMC@WRLMTS@WRL
To:	[email protected]@UMC@WRLMTS@WRL,
	[email protected]@UMC@WRLMTS@WRL

Return-Path: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Rona Peart)
Subject: AMIX Press Release
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 92 15:15:01 PST
Reply-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


Contact:
Carrie J.S. Wong, 
Niehaus Ryan Haller Public Relations, (415)615-7910

Ed Niehaus
Niehaus Ryan Haller Public Relations, (415)615-7908, 
(415)346-6499  (home)

Gayle Pergamit
AMIX, (415)856-1234, ext. 206.


AMIX Announces 
Market-Building Phase
World's first online Information Marketplace stocks shelves. 

PALO ALTO Calif, March 17, 1992--The American Information 
Exchange Corp.  (AMIX), an innovative online service for the 
buying and selling of information, today opened its Market-
Building Phase.  This shelf-stocking period will lead up to 
AMIX's mid-1992 launch.  Participants in the market-building 
phase include such well-known computer industry figures as 
Esther Dyson, Doug Engelbart, Portia Isaacson, Mitch Kapor, 
Patricia Seybold and Amy Wohl, all of whom anticipate making 
money as sellers on AMIX, a subsidiary of Autodesk, Inc.  

Consultants and information providers who begin using AMIX 
now will gain several advantages over those who wait until 
the launch to get on board.  Chris Peterson, director of 
marketplace operations, explains, "Market-builders will 
establish a favorable position for their materials, and begin 
accumulating buyers' comments on their wares.  Favorable 
comments from previous purchasers are a major indicator of 
product quality, and favorable comments will increase sales.  
Also, signing up now assures the seller his or her account 
name of choice;  later sellers may find their first choices 
already taken."  

Additional incentives for market builders

"Financial incentives for market-builders are significant," 
continues Ms. Peterson.  "An AMIX charter account costs just 
$50, but that is more than offset by special market-builder 
discounts and credits.  The $5 monthly fee is waived for the 
rest of 1992, plus we credit $50 toward connect charges 
incurred this calendar year.  Since anyone can both buy and 
sell on AMIX,  market-builders begin making money right 
away."

Prospective market-builders phone AMIX and sign up.  For $50, 
they receive everything needed to get started, including the 
AMIX Access software, manual, log-in information and 
password.  AMIX does not charge for technical support.  AMIX 
marketmanagers will be pro-active during the market-building 
phase in helping sellers market their information successfully.  
Customers access AMIX using their own IBM-PC or MS-DOS 
compatible computer (286+, 12 MHz+) and modem 
(2400-baud or faster).  

Exchange money for knowledge, judgement and answers
AMIX was designed specifically to be a marketplace for the 
buying and selling of consulting services and information.  
Anything that can be stored electronically can be bought and 
sold on AMIX:  text, graphics, templates, sound and software.  
Pre-packaged information comes alive on AMIX because it can 
be updated and repriced easily and often by the seller.  
These seller-authors are the best source of additional, more 
specific information on their topics, so AMIX provides an 
efficient electronic marketplace for consulting services.  

AMIX co-founder Gayle Pergamit says, "This availability of 
sellers' knowledge is a key reason why AMIX will succeed.  
Knowledge, because it is based on judgement, is the hardest 
kind of information to find; when knowledge can be customized 
to meet your specific needs, it becomes even more valuable.  
Knowledge is located in the minds of people--the information-
sellers on AMIX--rather than centrally stored in computer 
databases, and AMIX, an electronic marketplace, is uniquely 
suited to the exchange of knowledge for money."

AMIX differs from other on-line systems

"AMIX is different from other online services in several 
ways," Ms. Pergamit continues.  "AMIX provides real business 
interactions between individuals, by enabling money to flow 
from buyers to sellers.   In the AMIX environment, 
information is offered by people selling expertise.  The 
information is found easily and evaluated effectively by 
customers.  All transactions are on the money-for-value basis 
we're all used to in our daily business lives; AMIX is simply 
the `exchange'--the medium in which supply and demand can 
find each other.  Anyone can buy, anyone can sell."

AMIX is a new category of online system.  AMIX is not a forum 
for entertainment and chat such as is supplied on Prodigy, 
CompuServe or GEnie.  People won't come to give advice away 
for free, or to receive unpaid advice from strangers of 
unknown qualifications.  AMIX does not offer static databases 
for keyword searching, as do Dialog, NEXIS and LEXIS, yet 
market-building information brokers already sell on AMIX the 
service of searching these systems.  AMIX does not offer 
realtime delivery of stock quotes and similar information, as 
does Dow Jones, yet investment consultants of various sorts 
are expected to be available on AMIX.  AMIX creates a 
marketplace for updateable information, expert's opinions, 
customized information products and follow-up consulting 
work.  AMIX offers knowledge and answers.  

How AMIX works

Information for sale is up-loaded to the AMIX host computer 
from the customer's PC.  Information is listed for sale in 
one or more markets.  Each market is devoted to a specific 
subject area.  Any AMIX customer can be both a buyer and a 
seller.  Buyers electronically peruse information offerings 
of sellers in the same manner as one might browse through a 
store.  To buy, an AMIX customer views a list of items for 
sale and chooses one to consider.  Before buying, the 
customer can read a descriptive introduction written by the 
seller, check comments on the item made by previous buyers 
and refer to the seller's personal resume.  When satisfied 
that an item is wanted, the buyer makes the purchase with a 
keystroke and the `information' is automatically transferred 
from the AMIX host to the buyer's PC.  The buyer's credit 
card account is charged, and the seller is credited for 
AMIX's monthly payments to sellers.  

In addition to prepackaged information, buyers purchase 
customized advice and software from the sellers on the AMIX 
Service.  A buyer can send a request for consulting help to 
any seller or group of sellers, explaining what is wanted 
when, and what the buyer wishes to pay.  AMIX computerizes 
the process of requesting service, replying with an offer, 
counter-offering, negotiating, delivering and collecting.  By 
greatly reducing overhead costs, AMIX makes profitable a new 
form of consulting, "mini-consulting" in which sellers make 
money selling answers, at prices as low as $10 or $20  and 
ranging up to $2,500.

The hourly cost of browsing on AMIX is kept as low as 
possible, to encourage customers to find materials to buy; at 
launch, nationwide connections are expected to be just $6/hr.  
AMIX itself profits from successful transactions: sellers 
automatically remit a percentage of their sales to AMIX.  
This percentage varies from an average of 33% of transactions 
under $100, dropping to just 10% of any amount over $500. 

Who can be a market-builder
According to Ms. Peterson, "We are actively pursuing people 
with information or consulting skills that fit into our 
initial markets.  We encourage anyone with quality 
information for sale in these markets to take advantage of 
the incentives we're offering, and sign up now."

For further information, phone Gayle Pergamit (ext. 206) or 
Patrick Rafter (ext. 226) at 415-856-1234.  Press phone Ed 
Niehaus, 415/615-7908.   

The American Information Exchange Corporation
2345 Yale Street 
Palo Alto, CA 94306 
tel 415/856-1234 
fax 415/856-4123 
email: [email protected]

	This posting is a little late as it appears the talk occurred
    yesterday (I just received the mail), but it is nevertheless
    interesting to read about the sorts of activity in the Information
    Marketplace product space.

				   -davo

From:	LKGMTS::LKGMTS::MRGATE::"WRLMTS::UMC::[email protected]" 27-MAY-1992 23:21:04.70
To:	TOOK::DMCLURE
CC:	
Subj:	steigler talk abstract

From:	NAME: Chris Hibbert <[email protected]@umc@WRLMTS@WRL>
To:	[email protected]@umc@WRLMTS@WRL,
	[email protected]@umc@WRLMTS@WRL


Here's the abstract supplied for Marc's talk.
Message-id: [email protected]
From:	NAME: Terry Winograd <[email protected]>
Subject: PCD seminar 5/27, Marc Stiegler, The Construction Of an
Date:	22-May-1992
Reply-to: NAME: Terry Winograd <[email protected]>
To:	[email protected]

*************************************************************************
         Stanford Seminar on Human-Computer Interaction (CS547)
		Project on People, Computers, and Design
*************************************************************************

Wednesday, May 27
12:15 pm, Cordura Hall 100 (CSLI)

Marc Steigler, Autodesk

TITLE:  The Construction Of an Information Marketplace

ABSTRACT:

Throughout history, new kinds of marketplaces have been created to cater to
the needs of sellers and buyers of specialized goods. For fresh fruit, the
farmer's market is very effective; for buying and selling corporations, the
stock exchange is similarly effective. Today, at the dawn of the Information
Age, however, there is no comparably effective marketplace for the buying
and selling of information.

This presentation quickly reviews the key elements of a free market,
analyzes the unique features of information as a product that needs a
distribution mechanism, and demonstrates one
implementation of Information Marketplaces currently under development.


*********************

Marc Stiegler is currently the General Manager for the Information Systems
Business Unit for Autodesk. Prior to joining Autodesk, he spent 9 years
managing the development of emergency-mission command and control systems,
including systems for fighting forest fires, organizing tactical combat, and
maintaining White House communications during crises. Marc has also been a
professional author of both nonfiction and science fiction, including the
Hugh-nominated novella Valentina, the Prometheus Award-nominated book David's
Sling, and the book Programming Languages: Featuring the IBM PC and
Compatibles; this book was listed by Byte Magazine as one of 20 key books
about the IBM PC. He has an M.S. degree in Computer Science from Virginia
Tech.