Conference 7.286::digital

       
       
       	What are the future benefits that you would see in doing that?
       
       	I did it about 4-5 years ago. It hurt. Alot. But I'm on a better
       career path than I would have been if I stayed in the positions
       I was heading in. I'm glad I did it but in these hard times, it's
       got to be a personal decision based on what it's going to do for
       you.
       
       							mike

    Ref: .0
    
    Maybe the better question should be what do you think of being dropped
    unjustly, without due process, into a "new" job that is several levels
    below your former level?  And how does it hurt your future in Digital? 
    And your dedication and motivation?
    
    I know a dozen local co-workers who have had this happen to them and
    all are not happy campers.  Moreover, when any have sought another
    position, in line with experience and skills, suddenly the "problem" to
    taking a new position several levels above one's "current" level IS a
    problem -- one's level seems to be equivalent to one's intelligence,
    experience, knowledge and skill.  The fact that one is qualified is
    irrevelant compared to whether or not one is already in the "proper"
    level.
    
    And the Digital bureaucratic "personnel rules" are worse than the
    military.  As a victim communicated to me, at least in the military
    when you GET changed in jobs, you do NOT lose your rank, and you do NOT
    lose your rank without due process and justifiable, PROVEN cause.
    
    Insanity that dis-motivates.
    
    I agree with a host of knowledgable business authorities (say Dr.
    Deming and Tom Peters, among many) that say that traditional U.S.
    business school management practices, paticularly personnel policies,
    are archaic for competing in the future where all employees must be
    self-motivated, self-managed and self-inspired, and that these policies
    and practices need to be blasted out of existence for companies to just 
    survive, as well as grow more successfully.
    

    Shortly after the reclassification:
    
    "hey boss, I've been classified wrongly!  I should be a 'sales
    executive I', not a 'sales rep III' !  Will you help me get
    reclassified?"                          
    
    "Forget it.  I got dumped from 'unit manager II' to 'unit manager
    I'.  Go back to work".
    
    On another note....
    
    Whats the story on transfering to a level higher?  Any problems?
    
                        
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    This note is particularly interesting to me as I am right in the middle
    of a self-initiated job transfer that involves a level reduction. I
    am currenty a Project Manager II (SRI 40) and the new job is a
    Principal Software Engineer (SRI 39). I too am very concerned about
    the ramifications of this espcially since I would be placed very high
    in the salary range. I have expressed this conern to the personel
    people at the new job as well as the current one. Basically, what I've
    been told is that "this sort of thing is not without precedent" and
    that primary concern should be finding a home where I'm happier doing
    what I want to do. At this point I've decided to bite-the-bullet and 
    accept the new job and just do the absolute best that I can and hope
    that I'll be treated fairly. BTW I've only been at DEC about 13-months.
    
    

    
       From experience, you will regret it "all the days of your life"
    and beyond; we had someone in our group "panic" once and accept
    a lower level position; 10 years later, the person has not caught up
    and worse, has had to explain it at every interview session since!
    
       It is an anathema on one's career and can seriously impact
    personal goals.
    
       Stay congruent and bite the bullet, but continue to seek 
    "your own level"!
    

    I would think very carefully about accepting a job at a lower position
    on the salary scale.
    
    I was a senior engineer working in the Highlands of Scotland, I was at
    90% of the pay scale and relativly happy but there was no promotion at
    all. I asked about returning to my home town (Newcastle upon Tyne) and
    was offered a senior engineers position but at 65% of the pay scale.
    The job was supposed to lead to better things in the near future, and
    "they" could not leave me at my previous position on the pay scale as I
    would not "fit in" with the salary structure of the other engineers in
    the branch.
    
    After 6 months the job has not matched my expectations and I could put
    up with this, but the salary cut really hurts (we are not short of
    money its my pride), to the extent that I am about to hand in my notice
    and accept a position elsewhere, which is silly because after nearly 10
    years I enjoy working for DEC but my manager won't let me apply for
    another job until I have had 2 years in this one.

    Re: .0
    
    I may have some experience that may help you.  I am assuming that the
    new job has a lower SRI than your current job, but there is probably an
    overlap in ranges.  The first thing to find out is whether your actual 
    salary would be lowered when you make the move. In my experience this is 
    quite rare.  Usually, you just wind up higher in the range position, and
    theoretically, you will get smaller future raises, because you will
    havea higher current salary than typical employees in your new SRI.
    
    The real key is why are you considering taking the job?  If the new job
    is something you are better at or will make you more happy, your
    performance might be very good in the new job, resulting in a tendency
    for higher raises; conversely, if there are any problems in your
    current position, you might be getting low raises anyway, so the change in
    potential increases is moot anyway.
    
    In addition, with all the organizational changes going on, I am aware of 
    some veryhighly respected employees moving to a new position at a lower 
    SRI, and this was not seen as a hinderance to their future credibility at 
    all. 
    
    I was in a similar situation last year. I was in a Staff position when
    a line management position opened up 1 SRI lower, but it really looked
    like fun. I went ahead and did it, and am really glad now, especially
    since the new job is much more enjoyable, and this really makes up for
    the theoretical decline in increase potential. and now it looks like my
    old staff job will get abolished anyway.
    
    I will say that it took a LOT of soul searching to get over the "ego
    thing"                       

    I am accepting a position in an ACT, am currently a level 38 principal
    Info specialist.  The new position is in Software services, is a
    37, The job is one which I am really looking forward to.  It involves
    reloc and a whole new career in sales/software support. I was told
    to take the new position I would have to change my level because
    there was no level 38 currently there.  This is a temporary move,
    if it did not work out would I get my level 38 back?  To be retrained
    in a new job and work in a new environment may be worth the reduction.
    Although with all the hoopla of getting people out into the field
    I wonder why I have to drop a level.
    
    Alan
    

    
    Because JEC didn't work, that's why...
    
    One of the reasons for JEC was to standardize the leveling between
    various organizations within DEC. What it ended up doing was
    standardizing the codes, not the descriptions. So, a Principal Info
    Specialist isn't the same as a Principal Software Special which would 
    help you. The jobs require just about the same level of maturity and
    experience (often in different fields however).
    
    IMHO: Make the move. Having gone the other direction I've found that
    once you hit Consultant I in IS it's REALLY tough to make the jump to
    Cons II or III while in SWS it's pretty commonplace. IS just doesn't
    seem to believe that Cons IIs are "appropriate" for field groups and
    therefore it's tougher to get acceptance for the jump.
    
    So, for long term growth it's worth the loss in level. It's only a
    "demotion" on paper anyway.
    
    -Ray
    

    	When I was a Sr Prog/analyst I transferred to a Software Eng
    	group.  At the time , one group had even-numbered levels and
    	the other had odd-numbered levels.  I was bumped up the level
    	in the transfer since there was no exact lateral move.  Then
    	I went to customer support.  There was question as to whether
    	I should be brought in as a Specialist II or a specialist III.
    	At my request I got the spec II position.  I figured I was better
    	off coming in as a Spec II and proving I should have been a III,
    	than coming in as a III and proving I should have been a II.
    
    	In all of these transfers there was never an issue about salary.
    	The ranges were so broad that my salary fit in any potential
    	job level.  I really don't care what my title is.  All that matters
    	is that I get my money, and that I like my job, and that my
    	supervisors like what I am doing.
    
    	Joe Oppelt
    	

    Thank you for your input.  I accepted the position in late January.
    The work is definitely what I enjoy.  The lower level is mostly
    forgotten; I'm still a little bothered when I remember it.  We'll
    see how the salary review in July goes; I do have plenty of room to
    grow.  What a tough decision this was.  And one of the replies 
    mentioned dealing with the ego; I relate to that!