Conference 7.286::digital

	Doesn't the DIGITAL Dictionary hold acronyms? Perhaps an on-line
	copy of that would do? A BOOKREADER version with a good index
	would do the job to workstation users.

			Alfred

    
    Good idea, and why not take it even a step farther- instead of only
    limiting it to acronyms, list abreviations, too.
    
    	Dave

    RE .0

    You mean an ATU which takes a TLA and returns OSMs?

RE: .0

When a speaker relies heavily on acronyms why not ask what they mean?
You know the old saying about a fool being the one who doesn't ask
questions. It has been my experience that people who use acronymns
heavily are usually B.S.ers.  Why not ask the emperor about his clothes? 

During my 4th class year at West Point we were not allowed to use
acronyms at all.  Why not make a valiant attempt to stamp them out
in DEC, I mean Digital Equipment Corporation.

John

Use ELF V2?

    Seems alot of people have forgotten some basic facts of communication.
    It's ok to use acronyms, but it is proper and polite that the full
    wording is given (e.g. Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)) before any
    subsequent usage of the acronym.
    
    We get so caught up with our acronyms that we constantly use them in
    front of our customers without even realizing it.  It's bad manners
    plain and simple! 

    Re: .5:
     
       You beat me to it...
    
    
    					-mjg
    

    Perhaps NaC� can develop a network-wide Acronym Server, then DCL�
    could implement an F$ACRONYM lexical that could then provide the
    translation upon request.  That would solve the problem for most
    users, except those who are tied to ALL-IN-1, which would require
    a separate non-DCL� solution from BOSE�.
    
      John
    
    ----------------
    �Networks and Communications
    �Digital Command Language
    �The people who develop ALL-IN-1

    Thats DECRONYM, of course....

    
    For ALL-IN-1 users, the dictionaries could be made to work for both
    incoming and outgoing messages and some definitions added ...
    
    But who cares about that, I wnat to know where the little bitty
    1,2 and 3 came from in .8
    
    

    Re .11:
    
    Try 
    
    	[compose-character]^3
    
    

    
    Sorry to digress, but I tried Compose+Ctrl-3+1 (or +2, +3) and got
    "Key NONAME currently has no definition". Also tried 
    Compose+Shift-3 <gives # sign>, and Compose+Shift-6+3 <also bogus...>
    
    So give... what's the real secret???   Oh yeah - this done on a
    DECwindows VT3xx emulator VS2000
    
    I think the numbers are cute too!!  Effective!

    try 1)compose
        2)  ^ (that's a capital 6)
        3) 3
    
    like �
    
    George
    
    

    re .14
    
    � (that's a capital 6)
    
    becareful, not all keyboards are the same. eg the european keyboards
    have a different layout.
    
    � �'�'�
    
    I believe the compose doesn't work on DECwindows terminal emulators.
    
    HW

On DECwindows, the key you see as "Compose" is now "Alt".  To get the
compose key function, hold down the Alt (Compose) key and press the space
bar.  Let them both go.  The Compose light will be on.  Now type the
characters that make up your compose sequence.

				Steve

    That is, of course, unless you're editing your note with DECwrite
    which, as many applications do, uses the Alt key as an Alt key and
    not as a Compose key.  Add to that the confusion between ^1 and
    Ctrl-1, not to mention that Alt itself has been called other things
    in the past like 'super shift' and soon we will discover why noone
    has yet jumped up to provide the Acronym Translator.
    
    Now let me see, is that 'VEE EM ESS' or 'VEE EMs'?  And why is Rdb
    an RDBMS but DBMS is not?  Shouldn't 80% the same beat 60%?  Is
    OH ESS TWO like OH ESS or is it a different O.S.?  Come to think
    of it, is MS-DOS like DOS-VS or DOS it really matter? 
                                    
    Sorry, couldn't help myself on the last one.

    I was going to issue a rat-hole alert but when I back-noted to .8 where
    the rat hole started, I noticed a common error in footnote usage.  The
    error is ... (oops, I guess I really shouldn't get into that and start
    another rat hole).
    
    --Simon
    

    An extensive list of Acronyms and their translations already exists
    on UK National VTX. It is maintained by Geoff Rippington @UCG dtn
    781-4170  who, having spoken to him, I know would be pleased, either 
    to receive further contributions or to make it more widely available.
                                           

.18>  I noticed a common error in footnote usage.  The
.18>  error is ... (oops, I guess I really shouldn't get into that 
    
    Oh, come on, Simon� -- DO tell us!
    
      John
    
    ------------------
    �Simon, curiously enough, is old Taigorain for "He who notices well"
     (maybe it was an acronym :-)

I'd guess he's referring to the� practice of footnoting the� same word twice.

�It's still the same word, no matter how often you make reference to it.

Why not set up (yet another, sigh) Notes conference called "DEC_ACRONYMS" and
create a topic for every one of them ..... with as many replies as necessary to
provide all the definitions?

We all needed another to track :-)

Steve

    We would most likely get a ELF V2 compatable interface instead of
    a DEC_ACRONYMS conference....
    
    :-) Renis

Speaking of acronyms, I see several informal ones in NOTES files from time 
to time.  Some of them I've heard before; BTW --  By the way, CU -- See 
you, or FYI -- For Your Information.  What, however, do the following two 
mean?

	IMHO
	FWIW

Are there any other such acronyms to know about?

							Thanks,

							David

    IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
    
    FWIW = For What It's Worth
    

IMHO = In My Head Only

Bruce

    IMHO = In My Hubristic Opinion,
    
    which is exactly the opposite of
    
    IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

    Here's another "notes" acronym I just saw -- BWTF.  What does this
    mean?
    
    							FWIW,
    
    							David
    

    ... but what the f*** would you want to know for?
    
    Sorry, I think that's what it means.

    how about "sic", usually used in parens "(sic)"??
    

>    how about "sic", usually used in parens "(sic)"??
    
This is not an acronym but, an actual word....
From the dict.

SIC adv. Thus; so. Used in written texts to indicate that a surprising quotation
is not a mistake and is to be read as it stands.

- George

Sometimes I believe people use it (sic) to indicate that the spelling may be
incorrect and to pronounce the word/name phonically.

    I rathole:
    
    "sic" is Latin, and means, in effect, "this is not my error."  Often used
    editorially in newspapers, for example:
    
    	The statement continued, "We then proceed (sic) to the corner."
    
    By the way, "sic" can be used as a subtle editorial weapon to ridicule
    others.  I've seen it used on critical letters to the editor,
    nitpicking the letter-writer's submission to death with "(sic)"s.

>    "sic" is Latin, and means, in effect, "this is not my error."  

Literally, 'sic' means 'thus', and is used to indicate that the error
(or whatever) in quoted text was expressed as shown ("thusly")...

discussed in more length in JOKUR::GRAMMAR and probably ASKENET archives
and JOYOFLEX.....

    FWIW, IMHO "(SIC)" is an Abbr. for " Spelling Is Correct ". It just
    happens to have a similar latin meaning.

    Hmmm.  Note .34 is very interesting.
    
    John Wilkes Boothe shouted, "Sic semper tyrannus," as he
    shot Abraham Lincoln. I had no idea (until .34) that the
    phrase meant something like, "Tyrants always spell correctly."

    There are quite a few sics about, lurking in the nether regions
    of the English language. Sic transit gloria mundi for example.
    (I ran into Gloria after the weekend).
    
    However, I've a feeling that your common or garden sic is part
    of the phrase "sic dicet" - so it was said - or at least something
    like that. Long time since I studied Latin.
    
    Mike Day
    

RE:      <<< Note 971.35 by SSDEVO::EGGERS "Anybody can fly with an engine." >>>

>    John Wilkes Boothe shouted, "Sic semper tyrannus," as he
>    shot Abraham Lincoln. I had no idea (until .34) that the
>    phrase meant something like, "Tyrants always spell correctly."

I think what JWB was trying to say was "Thus, shall it always
be to tryrants". Sic means "thus".  

John

    re: .37
>>    John Wilkes Boothe shouted, "Sic semper tyrannus," as he
>>    shot Abraham Lincoln. I had no idea (until .34) that the
>>    phrase meant something like, "Tyrants always spell correctly."
>
>I think what JWB was trying to say was "Thus, shall it always
>be to tryrants". Sic means "thus".  
    
    Actually, he shouted "Sick temper Uranus", referring to the fact that he
    was temporarily made ill in the head by an unusual planetary alignment.
    However in the heat of the moment the Secretary transcribed the words
    incorrectly, and disavowed any knowledge of Booth's actions.
    
      John

    But wouldn't that have been "Sick temper urinal?"
    
    tim
    

SWAG: Silly Wild-Assed Guess.

    or Scientific Wild-Assed Guess
    

    Re last couple. Is this the right conference for system
    sizing/estimating ?
    
    Mike Day
    

	They have made an acronym from our share prices... 

	Thinking of how the stock prices were doing I read a mail from 
	a colleague and found 1 in 20 of the words(strings?) were acronyms. 


	Are we still talking the same language as our customers? 
	(regardless of geographic location). 
	Do people outside the company still understand us?

	I would love to see an explode an acronym week (perhaps year) 
	inside DEC.

		Rgds

re: .44,

>	I would love to see an explode an acronym week (perhaps year) 
>	inside DEC.

	Well, we could start by exploding the acronym "DEC".  For years,
    this term has been promoted by certain marketers as being somehow
    superior to the trademarked name of "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|".  According to
    the book _The_Ultimate_Entrepeneur_ by Glenn Rifkin and George Harrar,
    Ken Olsen has always fought to retain the original trademark over the
    somewhat carelessly used acronym of "DEC".

				    -davo

p.s.	Interesting historical tidbit: If Ken Olsen and Harlan Anderson
	(original founders of the company) had their way to begin with and
	had convinced General Doriot to allow them to jump right into the
	computer business (as opposed to merely beginning by making components),
	then our name would have been DCC (Digital Computer Corporation).
	Either way, it would still have been referred to as "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|"
	(perhaps this is why Ken Olsen is more fond of this trademark?).

> Well, we could start by exploding the acronym "DEC".  For years,
> this term has been promoted by certain marketers as being somehow
> superior to the trademarked name of "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|".  

Actually, this is a seriuos matter. The name of our company is
Digital Equipment Corporation or Digital for short. The term DEC
is never to be used as the name of our company. Legally, we have
a Trade Marked digital logo and we have 3 brand names: PDP, VAX,
and DEC. The term DEC can be used only as a brand name, such as
DECstation, never as the company name. Misuse of these terms and
logo has cost us loss of individual law suits in the past, has
cost us of the loss of right to register the trade mark for the
next 25 years in Australia, and could cost us loss of our trade
mark altogether.

For more information, see the Company Identity Manual, the
IAMOK::COMPANY_IDENTITY Notes file, or contact Peter Phillips,
Company Identity Manager.

bh

    In speaking, if you say something like, "We just bought
    a Digital computer," the person might think you are saying
    "digital computer," with a small "d."  The problem with using
    "Digital" is that it's a generic sort of word.  If you say
    "We just bought a DEC computer," then there is no ambiguity.

> < Note 971.46 by CTD050::HOUGH "Bob Hough, CLOSUS::HOUGH" >

> Actually, this is a seriuos matter. The name of our company is
> Digital Equipment Corporation or Digital for short. 


Actually, it IS a serious matter, because our name varies depending
on the country in which we do business.  If the listings in the back
of the phone book are to believed, here are some of our corporate names:

  Digital Equipment N.V./S.A. (Belgium)
  Digital Equipment France
  Digital Equipment GmbH (FR Germany)
  Digital Equipment S.p.A. (Italy)
  Digital Equipment Hellas Epe (Greece)
  Digital Equipment Ireland Ltd.
  Digital Equipment International B.V. (Ireland)
  Digital Equipment AB (Sweden)
  Digital Equipment Corporation AG (Switzerland)
  Digital Equipment Computer A.S. (Turkey)
  Digital Equipment Co. Ltd. (UK)

Few of these abbreviate to "DEC."

    
    Re .45:
    
    I suspect that those nefarious "marketeers" are actually old-timers
    who properly revere one of the few remaining symbols of their roots.
    As a fellow old-timer, I shout:
    
    		      --  "LEAVE 'DEC' ALONE!" --
    
    This company will always be 'DEC' in my heart, and I will die a 'DECie'.
    
    Please redirect your justified acronym animosity against more
    deserving targets -- for example, 'I18N' (internationalization) and
    I14Y (interoperability), which are incredibly 'S4D' (s____d).
    

>>    I suspect that those nefarious "marketeers" are actually old-timers
>>    who properly revere one of the few remaining symbols of their roots.
>>    As a fellow old-timer, I shout:
>>    
>>    		      --  "LEAVE 'DEC' ALONE!" --
>>    
>>    This company will always be 'DEC' in my heart, and I will die a 'DECie'.

Hear Hear.  (Actually, I thought that DECie had two "c"s, but now that
you mention it, that doesn't look right either...)

I remember the (sad) day in 1976 or '77 that the big "DEC" sign outside
ML5-5 Thompson Street came down and was replaced with "DIGITAL".
I remember hearing something about "Ken decided to change the name",
and I thought that the original stated reason was because "DEC" wasn't
an English word but "DIGITAL" was.  There might even have been a memo
sent around at the time explaining it.

For those of you who think it really helped us to have changed
our name, just remember: "IBM" doesn't seem to have had a whole lot
of trouble with their three-letter-acronym, have they...

-steve-

>re: .45,
>
>>>       I would love to see an explode an acronym week (perhaps year) 
>>>       inside DEC.
>
	Actually it wasnt the acronyn DEC that I intended. I was talking 
about the proliferation of designer acronyms. These acronyms are dependent 
on the project rather than the real world. eg. RAM what does that explode 
to? (I dont mean random access memory) HLSA... etc these acronyms impede
rather than speed up communications. 
If everyone started playing the acronym game we could have others like Kfz, 
Pkw and a whole host of meaningless strings (to 95%). We will find 
ourselves writing memos which not only IBM does not understand but the next 
office in the sme corridor.
		rgds,

    

>>For those of you who think it really helped us to have changed
>>our name, just remember: "IBM" doesn't seem to have had a whole lot
>>of trouble with their three-letter-acronym, have they...

    IBM doesn't have a problem because it is actually pronounced
    EYE-BEE-EM.  The problem occurs when the TLA (three letter acronym)
    is spoken like a word, such as DEC (sounds like "deck"). 
    
    At least this is how it was explained to me by Peter Phillips,
    Corporate Identity Manager.
    
    Jodi-
    
    
    

'DEC' (as a word) is Ok, since many of the people who use it are indeed such...

("DEC" = "[spoiled] child" )

I leave the readership to determine which language is in use...

/. Ian .\

    
    
    	RE: -.1
    
    In other words, IBM is not an acronym, it's just a set of initials, 
    pronounced as individual letters; hence, it's only an abbreviation.
    D-E-C pronounced as letters is also not an acronym, but an abbreviation.
    However, when D-E-C is pronounced as "deck," it becomes an acronym.
    
    So what I seem to be hearing is that it's ok to use our company initials
    as an abbreviation, but not as an acronym.
    	Dave

    RE: .54
    
>So what I seem to be hearing is that it's ok to use our company initials
>as an abbreviation, but not as an acronym.
 
    
    That was my understanding, but it's probably too late for that
    approach. 
    
    According to the Company Identity Manual, the only time DEC,
    the acronym, should be used is when talking about a product 
    such as DECwrite, DECtalk, etc.
    
    Jodi-
    
    

    DIGITAL is a place where acronyms crop up like mushrooms.  However when
    an acronmym is created, it does not get out to the rest of the world
    for some time, especially if you don't have regular periodic dealings
    with the group that has adopted a new name.  For example NAC is now
    TAN. What does TAN stand for??  I've been afraid to ask in meetings
    because I'd feel like an uninformed person. (ie an idiot).  
    
    Is there a place where acronyms used within DIGITAL are regularly
    recorded and distributed?  Something like the DIGITAL DICTIONARY.
    
    It gets to be a bit frustrating when you hear of a new group and you
    don't know what it stands for.
    
    
    Bryan

    Bryan you forgot the O, it's Telecommunication and Network
    Organization. A big deal difference from Networks and Communications.
    What a waste of time, do they really think these name changes are
    changing the organization?  
    
    Gail