Conference 7.286::digital

re Note 876.0 by IND::MISRAHI:

>     Has any one had (or heard of ) the situation where one doesn't
>     like or agree to a Performance Appraisal (PA) and refused to sign it ?
  
        I have been told that signing the performance review merely
        signifies that you did indeed have a chance to read it, not
        that you "approve" of it.

        (I once signed a performance review, and considered it a
        "done deal", only to have the boss' boss ask to have it
        changed.  And then I was asked to sign it again!)

        Bob

    signing a performance review, to my knowledge means that you agree
    and understand what was written.
    
    I knew of someone who refused to sign it, and words were changed....
    Be prepared to go to your manager, and possibly personnel if you
    refuse, though.
    
    

    A performance appraisal is simply the writing down of a conversation
    between you and your manager.  It formalizes the dialog.  When you sign
    it, you acknowledge that the dialog happened, and that this is
    what was said.  In many cases, the employee is asked to write part of
    the performance appraisal.
    
    in my experience,
    Marge

    Marge is correct.  Refusal to sign doesn't stop the appraisal from
    going into your personnel file as part of your permanent record.
    
    Al
    

    The signature indicates that you have seen the appraisal; nothing more. 
    It protects Digital from having someone come back later and say that
    documents were put into their Personnel folder that they never saw.  It
    protects the employee from managers who might do something like that.
    
    I once had an employee not only refuse to sign the appraisal; the
    person also refused to read it or to listen to me when I read it to
    him/her.  There was a severe performance problem, and the employee knew
    it; I had discussed it with him/her at length on many occasions.  I
    think refusing to have any contact whatsoever with the appraisal was a
    desperate, last-ditch effort to avoid what was inevitable.
    
    I got Personnel into the picture immediately, not because I needed the
    employee's signature (I didn't) but because the employee had refused to
    read the appraisal.  I didn't feel it would be right to put a document
    in someone's personnel folder when the person had no idea what was in
    it.  A Personnel person sat with me and insisted that the employee
    listen while I read the appraisal.  We then discussed it, item by item,
    and the employee was unable to refute anything other than a couple of
    little nits.  He/she still refused to sign, but it went into his/her
    file anyway, with a note by me stating briefly what had happened, and
    initialed by the Personnel person.
    
    							Pat

  
  Employee's Comments (if any) __________________________________________
  
  _______________________________________________________________________
  
  _______________________________________________________________________
  
  _______________________________________________________________________
  
  
  *Signature of Employee __________________________  Date _______________
  
  *This signature merely verifies that this evaluation has been discussed 
  with the employee and does not express approval or disapproval with its 
  contents.
  
  

     re .0

     It has happenned. Officially, your signature acknowledges that you
     have read the appraisal and understand its contents, not that you
     agree/approve. You may write a rebuttal, documented as much as possible,
     to support your case, and also have that filed with personnel at the
     same time.

     If you believe that you are being treated unprofessionally and/or
     incompetently, for example, your manager refuses to solicit positive
     information, then you should consider going to personnel.

     I wish whomever it is luck.

     /Peters

    I myself have on one instance refused to sign an appraisal. It did
    contain some things that I felt it shouldn't have. After talking
    it over with our manager and it was settled to both of our satisfaction.
    Any manager that would put something in your personel file WITHOUT
    discussing it with you first, should be fired..  I have never heard
    of a manager at Digital doing this, and doubt that I will (I hope)..
    
    Joe 

    

    Some people in this topic have said the signature only indicates that
    you have read the document.  That's not true.  Judging by text entered
    here and on my own review, it seems the phrasing varies from place to
    place.  The ones used around here indicate that the signer is satisfied
    their views have been incorporated into the body of the review.
    
    I would expect supervisors to permit the signer to change it to
    indicate only that the person has read it. 
    
    
    				-- edp 

    re .8
  
    > Any manager that would put something in your personel file WITHOUT
    > discussing it with you first, should be fired..  I have never heard
    > of a manager at Digital doing this, and doubt that I will (I hope)..
    
    At least one manager has done this.  You learn to look at your check stub
    very closely around review time to see if you got a raise or promoted.

    Interesting comments - thank you.
    
    /Jeff

    
    	If it comes from management or personel be a sceptic, neither
    	are in business to protect you. They move and shift like a
    	dancer to fit the mood of the day. be careful.
    
    
    My $.02
    Luck to you
    DH

        re .12 and
        
>       If it comes from management or personel be a sceptic, neither
>    	are in business to protect you. They move and shift like a
>    	dancer to fit the mood of the day. be careful.
        
        I disagree.
        
        I'm a manager.  I will be measured (in part) on the
        performance of the people who report to me.  They will
        perform better if I help "protect" them (as you phrased
        it). 
        
Jim Stratton
        

    
    It's no surprise that you disagree. So i'm wrong. As we all know
    management NEVER makes errors...
    
    So let's just say that we agree to disagree. I really don't want
    to go down a rat hole about this.
               
    So if you'd like to continue this we can do so by mail.
    
    .12 author

    
    	re .12 and .14
    
    	I too am a manager. I am also human. I do make mistakes and
    	errors. Individual contributors are also human. They make
    	mistakes and errors. I am tired of being lumped together as
    	one of "them." I do not make statements like beware of individual
    	contributors, they're shiftless and will do anything to avoid
    	work. I do not make these types of generalizations because they
    	simply are not true in most cases. Even if in my personal
    	experience it were the case, I believe it still would not be
    	fair to make such a statement. Please .12, don't fall into the
    	us and them mentality. WE are human. WE work for Digital. WE
    	make mistakes.
    
    	Terry Lykens	

    As to .14, Jim didn't claim that NO managers make the errors you
    describe, he asked you not to generalise - which is vastly different.
    
    - ���

    Personnel people are also here as much to protect you, the employee,
    as they are to serve Digital -- That's HOW they serve Digital.  There 
    are always poor examples to be found, but lumping them together
    is another unfair generalization.
    
    Obviously you should look out for yourself, and if you suspect a
    problem beneath the surface, use whatever diplomatic skills and
    resources you have to investigate -- assume nothing.  But, for the
    most part, I think managers and personnel folk can be trusted to
    be reasonable and helpful if YOU are.  If you have an antagonistic
    attitude, human beings will react to that, and then, of COURSE, you
    can expect trouble.  You literally ask for it.  But everyone (including
    managers and personnel folk) has their rules and guidelines, mostly
    quite clear and public, and they are also appraised against them.
    If they are off base they will suffer the same ramifications you
    would.  If you are confronted with one of the "bad apples", use
    the Open Door to discuss it (rationally and calmly) with THEIR manager.
    
    Boy, one wonders what experiences *someone* had to be so bitter,
    yes?!
    
    Sherry    

    Oh I dunno, to be fair, any length of time in DEC and you'll see good
    and bad examples of all sorts of DEC employees...
    
    - ���

                As a 16 year employee who is not a manager (nor has ever
        been), I will say that the good managers that I have had DO
        protect you from disturbances so that you can do your job
        better.
                
                My two experiences with personell have been very
        different. My first, when I was hired, was very lucky and
        positive. (He found my resume cleaning out his predecessors
        desk!) My second at a job change time was very bad and I got NO
        help at all from personell at that time (other than what they
        were forced to do by my hiring cost center).
                
                I would guess, based on my experience, that the deeper
        the @#%$ you're in, the less you can expect out of personell.
                
                /s/     Bob

    
    re .17...
    
    	Oh forgive me, a lowely EMPLOYEE, for having an opinion opposed
    	to yours. I said I would not go down a rat hole, and I will
        not, however I find your tone,ie" ...to protect you, the
    	employee", indeed, condecending and patronizing.          
    
    	As far as the "Open Door Policy" there's a concept!! Try using
    	it once yourself, then we'll talk OFF-LINE.
    
    Author .12,.14 & now .19 
    Be well 
    DH
    	

                I should have added that I have used the ODP (once) and
        it work as it was supposed to. As far as I'm concerned it can
        and does work.
                
                        /s/     Bob

    An excellent manager once told me that the secret to success for any
    manager in Digital is to treat the people who report to you in such a
    way as to earn their loyalty.  If you do that, they will "walk over hot
    coals" for you and make you a hero.  Although it's getting less and
    less common in this company, I still believe the truly good managers
    (and there *are* some) manage according to that philosophy.
    
RE:  <<< Note 876.19 by REGENT::GETTYS "Bob Gettys N1BRM 235-8285" >>>
                
    > I would guess, based on my experience, that the deeper the @#%$ you're
    > in, the less you can expect out of personell.
    
    That has certainly been my experience, in every dealing I've ever had
    with them, both as a manager and as an individual contributor over the
    11+ years I've been with the company.
    
    							Pat

    < Note 876.19 by REGENT::GETTYS "Bob Gettys N1BRM 235-8285" >
>I would guess, based on my experience, that the deeper
>the @#%$ you're in, the less you can expect out of personell.

    In other words, the more you need them, the worse they do ?
    
    karl

        Can we refrain from "Personnel-bashing", please?  If you
        have had a negative experience with Personnel, and want
        to describe it, please try to avoid generalizations and
        vagueness as much as possible.
        
        In other words, "my personnel rep was unable to answer
        the questions I had about the RSOP" is much preferable
        to "no one in Personnel knows anything".
        
Jim Stratton (co-moderator)
        

    Having had mostly good, and no really bad experiences with personnel,
    I'd say they do ok.  Like most organizations in DEC, their ability
    to MAKE something happen is very limited.  The personnel people in
    larger sites/organizations seem to have more "clout" than in the
    smaller, more isolated sites/organizations.  
    
    Personnel can't "solve" a bad manager - and it never could.  Nor, from
    stories of friends, are many other companies' personnel organizations
    any better at that.  The only short term solution for a bad manager
    (IMHO) is to leave, as soon as possible.  Cold comfort if you're in a 
    small organization or site and can't easily hunt for a new position,
    but ...
    
    Of course, I have also seen a LOT of my fellow employees blaming 
    management and personnel, when they were at least part, if not a
    majority, of the problem.  Not unlike the times I have had people
    tell me what a horrible time they had in a restaurant that I rather
    enjoyed.  After watching how they act and treat others, I can often
    understand - and my sympathies go out to the restaurant.
    
    /Dave

    
        The appraisal forms in my district have two places to
      sign; a line with a label disclaiming that your signature
      signifies agreement, and also the front page (with no disclaimer).
    
        I would personally advise along these lines: most disagreements
      should be negotiated through with your manager or manager's manager,
      possibly using Human Resources as a facilitator (my experience is
      that most managers will try to be reasonable and flexible if
      approached reasonably and strategically).
    
        However, in those rare cases (that happen in every company)
      when a manager displays unprofessional, malicious, and even
      bizarre behavior in any significant portion of the performance of
      his or her duties, you are wise to SIGN NOTHING on the appraisal
      form before contacting an attorney specializing in employee
      rights issues (in order to see if a signature could compromise
      future grievance or legal action).
    
                                   William Ellis

                Since I suspect that rep .24 was directed at me (and if
        I'm wrong - I hereby appologize!), let me say a bit more about
        the situation (I'm still going to leave out details).
                
                My then manager and I had a severe disagreement on my
        performance and his opinion was not born out by my peers in the
        group. However, I did not see the "handwriting on the wall" soon
        enough and he set up termination proceedings for me. I got zero!
        support from my personnel rep (he supported my manager 110%). He
        even stood in his office and screamed at me (I do mean
        screamed!) more than once in the process of my finding another
        job in DEC.  Another fact that bears here is that my previous
        review with the manager this guy replaced was very good
        including an adjustment in range. Luckily, the ODP worked here
        as his boss allowed me (encouraged me, in fact) to get another
        job in DEC even though the personnel rep and my manager was
        adamantly against it. BTW - I didn't even try to hide the
        conflict from my interviewers on any job interview I went on. As
        a closing - my next review with my new manager (obviously I was
        succesful in getting around these guys) was again a very good
        review with another adjustment in range! And I had multiple job
        offers to select from.
                
                /s/     Bob

    re .27
    
    Bob, I am not sure from your explanation what the personnel rep
    actually 'did' to stop you from applying elsewhere, but yes, he did do
    everything to act like someone in his position should not.  And what a
    match there is of your case to my wife's case.  She had been troubled
    by her manager, and kept silent until he came out and openly yelled at
    her for poor performance.  She verified from her supervisor that she
    had done a good job (she had received a "2" rating after her first year
    with DEC and had worked hard before and immediately after her maternity
    leave in the second year).  After verifying, she went and complained to 
    her personnel rep.
    
    Guess what: she received "sympathy" but no action.  The manager was
    setting her up for a bad review inspite of excellent performance, and
    she was told that "he must have had a bad day".  Mind you, i am not
    doing "personnel bashing", but when you have a severely negative 
    experience (Bob's case also sounds like that), you tend to think "does
    digital need such people ?"
    
    Mind you, she used ODP after that when another 'major' incident 
    happened (you can read note #15 for that) and the resolution was left
    to the same personnel rep!! who again did 'nothing' to help... 
    
    And it is so frustrating for me to feel powerless from not being able 
    to do anything about this (even frustrating for 'my' management people,
    who are excellent and cannot understand why this has to go on!)
    
    And yes, I agree with DH (Harvey?) when he/she scorns at the statement
    "to protect the employee".. hey, aren't we all born equal ? but have
    you ever heard of "protecting the manager" ? may be its because that is
    automatic in the system..
    
    BTW, what does IMHO mean ? 
    I am dejected when someone says "you can't do anything about a 'bad' 
    manager."  Do you think Ken Olsen or Jack Smith or John Sims think that
    way ? (yes, that's how far up we have thought of going).
    
    - mayank
    

       
       
       	IMHO = In My Honest Opinion
       
       RE: ODP and walking away from a problem.  I've found it best to
       seek and find another job if the current job isn't working out.
       It's best in the long run. Poor management is almost, but not
       quite, impossible to climb over. It's whether you choose to fight
       the battle and the stress for a job you believe it good. Myself,
       it was always easier to smile and get another job so that not
       to burn bridges. It's a lesson I learned very quickly when I joined
       DEC 9 years ago and have stuck by it.  For my last position, after
       returning from 2� months at DECworld, there were just too many
       fundamental differences in the way I wanted and believed things
       should be done and the way my management wanted and believed it
       should be done. So I left. I got another job and I'll tell you, it
       was the best thing cuz I feel at home now. My views and beliefs of
       how things should be done mesh nearly perfectly with my current
       managements..
       
       	Bottom line: If you can avoid it, do so. Poor management will be
       found out eventually and with the way I believe DEC is going,
       people who make it unnecessarily difficult for those of us trying
       to do a job will find themselves out of a job.
       
       						mike

    re .29:
    
    Or, for the more modest (and less trustworthy)
    
    IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
    
    But I'm an engineer, so maybe Humble isn't it. -)
    
    /Dave
    

RE: last few replies

	I underwent the same problem. I left Software, to go into F&A. My 
manager was from outside the company. My reviews were one-sided and I 
received some of my lowest ratings, even though I and the people I provided 
services for said I was doing a great job. My problem was that I tried to 
accomplish too much and could not prioritize them. I wound up getting rated 
on trying to do everything instead of being rated on the important items. It 
was partially my fault, but I had done the same thing in Software and always 
got rewarded for trying to do too much. After 2 years, I moved back into 
Software and again started receiving high ratings in my next review. 

	Even though I disagreed with my ratings, I did not give up on 
Digital. I have been back in software for over 2 years now and am doing very 
well. The key is not to let a person stand in your way of doing a good job 
for Digital. You may not be able to do a good job for them no matter how 
hard you try. If you want to do a good job for Digital, as the Marines would 
say, "we are always looking for a few good people (literary license taken)".

    I once had a verbal PA. Two years later, I discovered it, (in written
    form), in my personnel file.  To my suprise, the manager at that
    time had a secretary sign my name. Does it make a difference if
    you sign it? I think not. Its' worth is only as valuable as the
    exsisting relationship that you have with your boss.

    I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Personnel are management
    consultants, not employee advocates.  
    
    Corrective action is a business decision, insofar as the necessity 
    of living with the business consequences are the responsibility of 
    line management.  Personnel does not have P&L responsibility, nor are 
    they measured by business performance metrics. It would be
    unreasonable to expect that they be given the power to arbitrarily 
    intervene in situations (other than where their charter is clear) as 
    a result.  Personnel is there simply to ensure that the corrective 
    action policy is followed properly.
    
    Remember, corrective action starts long before the first verbal
    warning.  As some point the employee should have had a problem solving
    session with his or her manager.  During that session, the nature
    of the problem and the responsibilities of the employee should be
    made clear.  The same process gets repeated (but with more formality)
    at the verbal warning and subsequent stages.  The employee is supposed
    to understand unambiguously what is expected of him.  
    
    Personnel will not pass judgment on whether the responsibilities
    of the employee as mapped out by management are reasonable;  like
    I said above, how management uses its employees is a business
    decision, and Personnel doesn't have direct responsibility for 
    that.  For the unfortunate employee who finds himself in a situation 
    where his or her manager is being legitimately unreasonable, the ODP 
    is the proper way to resolve this.  
    
    Al
    

    Al,
    
    As I said, my wife has tried to use the ODP since the management is
    trying 'very hard' to be legitimately unreasonable (since she has
    complained about them).  For all others, she is actively looking for
    another position but it is hard during these times.
    
    The ODP process has not worked for her - she just repeatedly gets told
    "go back and work with these same people and do exactly as they say"
    - and  mind you, we are talking about personal harassment, rude and
    offensive behavior, unreasonable deadlines, etc.  so ODP IS JUST NOT
    WORKING.
    
    And I really am not able to understand those who keep saying "do a good
    job for Digital, don't care how your management is - if they trouble
    you, get out from that group."  Yes, get out sure, but what about all
    the disrespect, mental agony, harassment that you have faced - WITHOUT
    ANY PROTECTION ?
    
    Please, doesn't anyone here know what I am talking about ?  or has my
    wife met a real unusual mgmt in DEC - in that case it does not belong
    in DEC at all....
    

    I feel so sad about .12 and the view that managers and personnel
    conspire against the workers.  Not because the author holds that
    view but because her/his experiences have caused that view to be
    held. It smacks of some poor management somewhere along the line.
    
    A manager is no more than an employee who has more responsibilities
    than he/she can handle alone. To achieve their tasks/role/goals
    they need help from other employees who report to them. Management
    therefore has an extra burden of responsibility attached to it over
    and above the tasks/goals. The responsibility for the welfare of
    the people helping. It's a two way relationship. The manager depends
    on the support of the employee just as much as the employee on the
    manager.
    
    Personnel are in place to help managers manage. Just as there are
    poor employees there are poor managers and poor personnel people.
    Even good ones somtimes screw-up now and again; except me ;-) of
    course.
    
    I have managed people with an 'us and them' syndrome and have found
    that it is relatively easy to convert them to the 'we' style. That
    sounds sooooo patronising but it's not meant to be.  Remember that
    managers have managers too. My view is that Ken Olsen reports to
    his wife who reports in turn to her mother! :-) Shareholders are
    in the loop there somewhere too.
    
    With respect to the question of signing performance reviews; I believe
    it goes beyond courtesy to allow an employee to review the review
    and to incorporate their views. In an ideal world there never should
    be a disagreement. Irrespective of what my manager may or may not
    write about me he still decides the size of my review.
    
    I guess I've been lucky as in seven or eight years of man management
    in Digital this has never arisen. Of the few times it has happened
    to me where I havn't had the chance to sign, the 'error' has been
    so insignificant that its not been worth the bother to get things
    changed. Generally these things are not hung around peoples heads
    like mill stones but are quickly forgotten.      
    
    I believe that .12 DH needs to find a manager with whom mutual trust
    can be shared; but that's just a humble opinion.
    
    Bucko...
                        

    Re .35
    
    well said - you have a 'humanistic' approach and anyone would love to
    work 'with' you - even if there were severe deadlines and time
    presssures.  
    
    Talking about PA, do you think an employee, no matter how hard he/she
    works for the sake of Digital, can expect a good review from a supervisor 
    who says (direct quote):
    
    "You also do not have the professional maturity (or responsibility) to 
    tell me what a reasonable assignment is, or is not.
    Your job is to complete the assignments I give you, by the deadlines I
    determine.  That is it.  And I ask you not to give me your excuses
    for failure to meet deadlines, I ask you only for results."
    
    And mind you, this is after "2" ratings for two consecutive years, and
    months of trying to resolve problems through the ODP.  And guess what:
    the employee is told that this very same supervisor is to write her
    review this year (last year it was a different person).
    
    Now tell me whether the employee should sign the PA or not (if it is
    highly unfair and untrue) ?  (any guess whether it will be ?)
    
    - mayank
    
    PS:  I do sympathize with DH after this horrible experience my wife has
    had.  Sure, my management is excellent, like Bucko describes, but 'bad'
    experiences damage you permanently, as it has done to DH.

    re: .36
    
    It's unfair to ask an opinion about a specific situation, especially
    one in which there is a personal involvement, when anyone who could
    reply in here has absolutely no way of obtaining an objective
    viewpoint.
    
    I would like to address some points you bring up, though in a very
    general sense.  I don't know the specifics of your wife's situation,
    and these comments aren't meant to apply to her.
    
    First of all, one needs to define what is meant about the ODP
    "working".  The ODP does not guarantee that an employee will be
    met with acquiescence; only that they will be heard.  Personnel is
    there to ensure that the process is made available to the employee,
    though not, as I have stated before, to advocate the employees
    viewpoint.  If someone goes all the way to the top and does not
    receive a satisfactory resolution, then one of two things is true:
    Either the entire management chain is bone-headed, or the employee
    is just "wrong".  There is no other possibility that I can think of.
    
    Second, good performance appraisals are not necessarily a sign of
    a good manager; neither is a change from good to bad ratings when
    the manager changes necessarily an indicator that the new manager
    is no good.  Delivering bad news to an employee is one of the most
    difficult jobs a manager faces.  Some managers can't do it - they
    give poor or marginal performers acceptable or even good ratings
    because it's easier than confronting the problem.  Such are not
    uncommon; these managers are simply not good at managing people.
    
    Al
    

    re .34

>   And I really am not able to understand those who keep saying "do a good
>   job for Digital, don't care how your management is - if they trouble
>   you, get out from that group."  Yes, get out sure, but what about all
>   the disrespect, mental agony, harassment that you have faced - WITHOUT
>   ANY PROTECTION ?
    
>   Please, doesn't anyone here know what I am talking about ?  or has my
>   wife met a real unusual mgmt in DEC - in that case it does not belong
>   in DEC at all....
    
    I am in the middle of resolving a bad situation with a new manager.
    (They inherited the situation.) I've worked both sides of the fence at
    DEC (manager and senior technical), and there are, unfortunately, people
    who do know what you are talking about. For me, my first problem was
    waiting for my manager's manager to realize that the situation was not
    one "I could fix" with my manager -- basically sending them mail saying:
    "here, this is how I am being a professional about this situation and I
    believe my manager is not."

    Fortunately, I hope I've gotten a new lease, after over half a year of
    misery. Situations like this are particularly difficult it you're
    competent, work hard, have been a superior performer in the past, and
    things are not working right.

    I'm not surprised that the first reaction up the ODP chain would be
    "work it out with your manager." What you have to do is document the
    situation with specific examples, and leave your emotions behind as
    much as possible. (They'll come out anyway.) Without that, no matter
    how justified you feel, you'll only be a squeeky wheel as you go up
    the chain. And remember, if the manager you work for isn't working out
    and they were put in that position by _their_ manager, one level of
    ODP may not be enough.

    DEC culture, ODP and all else aside, your job is only as good as the
    manager you work for.

    Hello Fellow noters,
        
    	Let me add my two cents worth. The personnel, if I understand
    correctly, are paid out of your cost center and hence they might not
    be a nuetral body in situation of conflict even if they want to be.
    
    	This has been addressed in some other companies by having personnel 
    as a seperate function at corporate level and their own budget. In this 
    situation, there might be a nuetral position offered by personnel. Also, 
    under this circumstances they might be able to act.
    
    	Hopefully, we need to put an infrastructure in place to handle
    such situation.
    
    	Well, In my limited experience, I had opportunity to deal with
    both favourable and unfavourable situation. I had refused to sign the 
    review as I realized the information was not correctly portraying what 
    I had accomplished. Hence, I went to the internal customer and obtained 
    their letters objectively evaluating my work. Still, that feedback did
    not help to resolve the deadlock. Finally, I decided to change job
    as I could not see myself continuing there. The root cause of the problem,
    in retrospect, was that I was working for committee whose objectives 
    were different from my groups. The metrics used for evaluation by my 
    ex-supervisor were not reflecting my achievement as perceived by 
    the committee. By the way, our group had very high attrition rate.(In
    fact we use to joke with our boss that there should not be going away
    party but party for those who are staying back.)
    
    	One lesson I learnt was that to let it go. Then make a new beginning 
    as there are so many positive people and all you need is to find one
    and to have faith. Also, bring out your earlier experience to them,
    not bitterly, but to make the new person realize that how the previous
    person has impacted you in financial manner, in recognition, in
    careerwise, and selfesteemwise. So then your new manager will hopefully take
    corrective action if he believes  in you. Eventhough my first experience 
    was not positive one, yet meeting other positive people helped me to 
    keep things in proper perspective. I am glad to be here in DEC.
    

    Regarding the original question:
    
    Seems to depend on the form. A "properly" designed form provides a
    place to sign and date it, stating that the employee has received the
    appraisal and had the opportunity to review it. That doesn't
    necessarily imply agreement, and in fact, the employee should be able
    to fill in a space or attach a document stating his or her point of
    view. NOBODY else should be empowered to sign this for the employee; to
    do so is fraudulent, and probably grounds for termination (which isn't
    absolutely ruling out the possibility that it happens)!
    
    An improperly designed form would not provide a place for the employee
    to express disagreement. In that case, I would be disinclined to sign
    the appraisal unless it came reasonably close to my views.
    
    Does Personnel tend to support management over individuals? Probably!
    Management and personnel are "administration", and represent "the
    company". That doesn't mean it will always work out that way, but
    Personnel will _tend_ to deal with a problem situation by advising
    a manager how to achieve his or her goal without risk to the company.
    In other words, if a manager says you are an incompetent boob who
    should be terminated, Personnel will advise the manager what steps to
    take to document your failures properly.
    
    If you feel you're being treated unfairly, go to Personnel, use the
    Open Door Policy, or even contact your lawyer (who has _your_ interests
    at heart!). The advice given in several replies to get out of the
    situation, if necessary by leaving the company, is probably the best
    thing to do.
    
    Sometimes, the problem is one of communication. You think you're doing
    a great job ... but you haven't found out what your manager's
    objectives are, and may be missing the target. The fact that you don't
    entirely agree on objectives doesn't make either one of you right or
    wrong. The manager probably has the greater responsibility for
    establishing clear communications, but that doesn't help if the
    communications aren't there. Take the example before, where someone was
    working on too many things, but doing the best he or she could, and
    churning out a lot of work. The individual thinks he or she is doing a
    great job, certainly the best job possible under the circumstances. But
    the manager may look at it as disorganized effort which fails to take
    priorities into account. Both sides have a point.
    
    When all is said and done, life isn't always fair. I've felt it
    necessary to write a dissenting view on an appraisal (NOT at Digital),
    and I once went so far as to provide a letter to an employee who once
    reported to me for her to attach to an appraisal that was clearly
    intended to set her up for an undeserved termination (likewise, NOT at
    Digital). Didn't do much good for either of us, as I recall ...
    
    From what I've seen, Digital may be less than perfect, but probably
    tries as hard as any company to provide a favorable environment for the
    individual to development. Given a bad situation, there should be some
    understanding and support in moving into a different position and
    giving it another try.
    
    Guess that's why they invented feet - so you can get up and leave!
    
    - Richard

    
    My experince, for what it's worth --
    
    I was in a very bad situation several years ago. New manager took-over
    group: irrational, bullying, sarcastic, mean, etc., etc. My PR came
    due several months after new manager arrived. New manager tried to
    give me a "5" and get me fired. I did not sign the review; I *did*
    elevate to personnel, then corporate personnel. PR was finally made 
    a "3," and I attached to it *a review of new manager,* so anyone reading
    it would get both sides.
    
    Never signed the review, just my rebuttal.
    
    KBS
                                                 

    [Re:] several previous replies alluding to whose side Personnel is on:

    I had occasion once, in this company, to report BOTH a manager and one
    of his direct reports to their Personnel rep.  I felt I was caught in
    the middle of a personal dispute between the two of them, and I wanted
    to see it stopped.  I didn't try to side with either of them; I just
    said they were fighting, and that it was spilling over into the
    performance of their jobs.

    I called the Personnel rep a few days later to follow up, and spoke
    with the rep's manager.  He said to me, "Yes, we're aware of the
    situation with Bob and his employee.  It will be dealt with."  It
    wasn't much, but the reference to "Bob" and to "his employee" was
    chilling.  I was tempted to reply, "Bob's employee has a name, too; do
    you know what it is?"  It was clear whose side Personnel was on.

    Lest you say that I read too much into the remark, I can tell you that
    the dispute was resolved by an apology by the employee, but not by the
    manager.  It takes two to fight, but I thought the resolution was
    completely one-sided, and the manager got off, at least so far as I
    know, unscathed.

Re .41

>    a "3," and I attached to it *a review of new manager,* so anyone reading
>    it would get both sides.
>    
>    Never signed the review, just my rebuttal.

What a *GREAT* idea!  Have to remember that one, JUST IN CASE!

Steve

    Back when I was an RSX writer, I was pretty involved in DCL design and
    compatibility as well as doing the DCL documentation.  My boss, that
    fine gentleman, Larry Sweeney, was a little baffled as to how I was
    spending my time, since only half of it went into the actual writing of
    manuals, i.e., my job as he saw it.

    Larry's creative solution was to get the two engineers I worked most
    closely with on these other issues to write reviews of what I was doing
    with them, which he attached to his review of my writing prowess. 

    When I review people, I normally sit down with a draft of their review
    and edit it with them.  That way, we smooth out any differences before
    they get out in public.  

    Re .45:
>    When I review people, I normally sit down with a draft of their review
>    and edit it with them.  That way, we smooth out any differences before
>    they get out in public.  
    
    In our group, the mgmt does the same thing - it shows a very healthy
    concern for the employee, which in turn translates into high morale and
    willingness to go the extra mile.
    
    Regarding PA forms, the one used in our group does have the space for
    employee's attachment (or rebuttal).  But IMHO, if the situation is so
    bad that the employee feels distressed enough to not sign the PA and
    has to attach a rebuttal, it is a clear _failure_ on the part of 
    MANAGEMENT, not the employee.
    
    - mayank

    re .46

>>  When I review people, I normally sit down with a draft of their review
>>  and edit it with them.  That way, we smooth out any differences before
>>  they get out in public.  
>    
>   In our group, the mgmt does the same thing - it shows a very healthy
>   concern for the employee, which in turn translates into high morale and
>   willingness to go the extra mile.
>    
>   Regarding PA forms, the one used in our group does have the space for
>   employee's attachment (or rebuttal).  But IMHO, if the situation is so
>   bad that the employee feels distressed enough to not sign the PA and
>   has to attach a rebuttal, it is a clear _failure_ on the part of 
>  
>   MANAGEMENT, not the employee.

    Managers who use reviews to "punish" employees -- especially when
    it's a surprise to the employee -- are the #1 cause of employee morale
    and productivity problems, and should not continue to be managers.

    A review should _never_ be a surprise.

    /peters

    re -.2
    
>   Regarding PA forms, the one used in our group does have the space for
>   employee's attachment (or rebuttal).  But IMHO, if the situation is so
>   bad that the employee feels distressed enough to not sign the PA and
>   has to attach a rebuttal, it is a clear _failure_ on the part of 
>   MANAGEMENT, not the employee.

    re -.1:
    
>    it's a surprise to the employee -- are the #1 cause of employee morale
>    and productivity problems, and should not continue to be managers.

>    A review should _never_ be a surprise.
    
    I've had managers that worked very hard to provide feedback during the
    period between reviews so the review WASN'T a surprise.  It sure makes
    the review process less traumatic and demotivating.
    
    I wish the information in this note  had been around at the time of my
    last review.  Instead of signing the review I would have added a
    rebuttal.  

   "Performace Appraisal"?????
    
    I have not had one...much less been asked to sign one...for *at
    least* 4 years...maybe 5...can't really remember when the last one
    was......any further questions as to why I left my prior organization
    that I had been with for 11 years????
    
    Jerry

    Re: many previous replies.
    
>    Managers who use reviews to "punish" employees -- especially when
>    it's a surprise to the employee -- are the #1 cause of employee morale
>    and productivity problems, and should not continue to be managers.
>
>    A review should _never_ be a surprise.
    
    Trying to *punish* and be *vengeful* is exactly what is happening in a 
    case I have referred to in postings earlier in this notesfile.
    
    Review time has come for this employee, and this year's review is
    negative, destructive, and completely contradictory to last year's
    review (see below).  Besides, it is a total *surprise* in its content,
    since in March and May, there were meetings on this topic and the
    employee was told that everything is *on track* and "no problems".
    
    Last year's review: "2" rating (only overall rating given), great
    growth potential, good interpersonal skills, independent work and good
    technical abilities.
    
    This year's review: individual ratings - "4" in IP skills (horrible
    description), "4" in growth potential, "3" in tech abilities, and on
    and on and on...
    
    And all this because the employee has complained to "personnel" about
    harassment at work !!  Strange thing is, a higher up in personnel agreed
    that incidents of harassment/intimidation have occurred, and yet this
    same individual has seen and approved this PA !!!
    
    Obvious choice is to not sign this PA, attach a rebuttal and wash your
    hands off that group.. But is this in the spirit of complaint
    resolution ???  any other suggestions ? As .45 said (above), such
    people (who *destroy* employees) should not be allowed to continue as 
    managers in Digital !!!
    

    
    � people (who *destroy* employees) should not be allowed to continue as 
    � managers in Digital !!!
    
    	such people should not be allowed to continue as employees of
    Digital. This is an insult to KO's (and many of us) moral values.

    Re: .51
    
    >>	such people should not be allowed to continue as employees of
    >> Digital. This is an insult to KO's (and many of us) moral values.
    
    Well yes, that was my implication; but if not completely out of the
    company, atleast not allowed to continue as a _manager_ where they have
    positional power and can do extreme harm to other employees (such as
    through PAs, as we have read in this topic).
    

    Mayank, I work in the field.  You and your spousal unit have
    some legitimate complaints.  This is not the place for them.  I'm
    tired of seeing your lengthy replies, and have begun to 'next unseen'
    right past them.  Thought you'd like to know.
    
karl moeller SWS TUO    

        Re: .51
    
    >>	such people should not be allowed to continue as employees of
    >> Digital. This is an insult to KO's (and many of us) moral values.

    Ahh, but you see that's the whole rub, isn't it:  If you are working
    FOR someone like this, how do you convince *Digital* that your boss
    should not be allowed to continue as an employee of Digital?
    
    To put it bluntly, If you walk the ODP chain trying to get your
    boss fired, who is more likely to be believed, you or your boss?
    (or from the other side, who would you believe; your direct report
    or one of his employees?), and as always, what is the cost of trying
    to get your boss fired, and failing?
    
    Kevin

    re: .-1
    	
    Thus somebody's advise : "CUT and RUN!"
    

       RE: .55
       
       	Exactly.. Cut and run, and wait till your old boss gets a boss
       that will burn his/her butt for gross negligence in doing their
       job.. Then sit back and enjoy because you're the one who hasn't
       burnt any bridges and still have something left of your wits and
       a semi-normal blood pressure..
       
       			Works for me,
       
       						mike

re .53:
>>  Mayank, I work in the field.  You and your spousal unit have
>>  some legitimate complaints.  This is not the place for them.  I'm
>>  tired of seeing your lengthy replies, and have begun to 'next unseen'
>>  right past them.  Thought you'd like to know.
    

For what it's worth, Mayank, I enjoy reading what you have to say. You
usually have an interesting perspective on things.

                             ...Dick

    .53
    	You may be boared with Mayank's replies but they indeed are valid
    points. His points are applicable to other DECee's too so this is
    the place to discuss it. However you are right that discussions here
    will not improve his wife's situation.
    
    Robert

    Re: .53
    
>   ... This is not the place for them.
    
    Karl, if you read carefully, my notes are not intended to complain
    about a specific *person* in public, but to show the downside about the 
    process of problem resolution and management/employee conflicts
    in Digital and how it works (effectively or not effectively, as the case 
    may be). To back up my claim about this process and its failure, I 
    sometimes use "live" data.  I believe this is valid material for this 
    notesfile, since the "process" (ODP, review, etc.) affects all Deccies.
    
    I especially think it's useful to bring out this downside since there
    are lots of people who claim that "all" of Digital is sooo good, and
    that if you have a "valid" complaint, then it will get resolved by the
    corporation upholding the P&P.  Sorry, this is not the grim reality
    everywhere in Digital (though I will reiterate what I said before: that
    my experience with *my* management is excellent. I am not saying this
    to CMA. ;-) )
    
>   I'm tired of seeing your lengthy replies, and have begun to 'next unseen'
>   right past them.  Thought you'd like to know.
    
    That's certainly your option, and you are entitled to it.  However,
    there are others who may think otherwise and may benefit from them.
    (BTW, you do not KNOW what a "lengthy" reply is.)
    

>         <<< Note 876.53 by SALSA::MOELLER "Nested assumption calls" >>>
>
>    Mayank, I work in the field.  You and your spousal unit have
>    some legitimate complaints.  This is not the place for them.  I'm
>    tired of seeing your lengthy replies, and have begun to 'next unseen'
>    right past them.  Thought you'd like to know.
>    
>karl moeller SWS TUO    
    
    Congratulations for working in the field.  Do you talk to customers
    like that?
    
    I truly think this one was uncalled for.
    
    tim
    

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        work at Digital.  The purpose of this conference is not
        to discuss each other.
        
        If you'd like to make a comment about another noter, please
        send him or her MAIL.
        
        Subsequent notes that talk about other noters rather than
        the topic will be returned to the authors and then deleted.
        
Jim Stratton (co-moderator)