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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

733.0. "Policy on "Animals in Digital facilities"?" by KUDZU::BOUKNIGHT (W. Jack Bouknight) Sat Feb 25 1989 19:12

    I just finished reading some of the notes under the subject of bringing
    children into DIGITAL facilities.  I'd like to ask whether anyone
    has any opinions on bringing in "children" to the facilities.
    
    I put "children" in quotes because I'm not talking about offspring
    but about substitutes in the form of pets (dogs, cats, etc).
    I don't believe animals are allowed in facilities as a general
    DIGITAL policy, but I don't know exactly where to find the policy
    if it is indeed written down.
    
    Policing such a policy is an easy thing to do in a facility with
    a resident security staff.  Not so easy to do where security is
    on the "honor" system.  And what should be the case at off-site
    meetings?
    
    Some may think its cute to bring in the "pet" to liven up the
    proceedings but others are not enthralled.  Some even suffer from
    allergies to such animals.  Seems to me the pet owner is being rather
    boorish and insensitive when they bring pets to company meetings,
    wherever located.
    
    Who knows what the personnel policy is on refusing to attend such meetings
    when unauthorized animals are present? Should an employee be forced
    to attend or a manager allowed to mark the employee down for not
    attending?  What do you do when its the manager that brings in the
    animal?

    This note is not intended to offend pet owners in general. I happen
    to own two cats (one is 14 years old) and I do not "hate" dogs
    although my preference is toward cats.  I even have a tropical
    aquarium.  But I would NEVER think about imposing my pets on others
    outside my private living environment, and I don't like being imposed
    on by others in  the working environment.
    
    Anyone agree/disagree/don't care?
       
    Jack
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733.1QUARK::LIONELAd AstraSat Feb 25 1989 19:2414
    Never in my experience have I heard of people bringing pets
    into work (cats, dogs, birds, etc. - I do know people who have
    fish tanks on their desks).  The thought of a pet at a meeting
    is absurd, to me.
    
    I believe that policies about pets are local to each facility -
    I know that ZKO has a policy about children, but it is
    universally ignored (it says you need a cost center manager's
    permission).
    
    Do you ask this out of academic curiosity, or have you actually
    seen someone try to bring a pet into a meeting?
    
    				Steve
733.2upon justificationEAGLE1::EGGERSTom, VAX & MIPS architectureSat Feb 25 1989 20:5116
    I would have no objection to a guide dog, and in fact I have seen one
    in the Mill years ago. It belonged to a customer.
    
    There is a long-term Digital employee who would bring her German
    shepherd, Senta, into the Mill after hours.  Circa 1970. It was for
    protection, and I believe it was justified.  Everybody knew about it,
    guards, management, etc., and I can't really believe the dog didn't
    have at least tacit approval -- Larry Portner must have known about it
    -- although I don't recall if explicit permission was given. The dog
    was extremely well-behaved and would curl up under her desk. 
    
    The dog belonged to the same person who had her Massachusetts auto
    inspection sticker stolen.  The thief cut a hole in the windshield
    around the sticker and departed with a piece of windshield, sticker
    attached.  That was in the lower Thompson St. lot.  With that stuff
    going on, a German shepherd after hours still seems like a good idea.
733.3Yes, some animals are acceptableKUDZU::BOUKNIGHTW. Jack BouknightSat Feb 25 1989 21:0816
    Neither would I object to guide dogs.  As far as I am concerned,
    they don't fall in the class of pets, but are an able extension
    of the associated employee or visitor, and are trained to behave properly
    in any place that their owner would frequent.  I would think that
    a person needing use of a guide dog would have informed who ever
    needed to know that they had one and this would suffice.
    
    As to .1's question, no this is not an academic exercise.  I am
    involved in several of these episodes and am trying to understand,
    findout what my responsibilities, options are.
    
    I wonder if this falls into the same category as smoking, ie, by
    unanimous consent of the meeting attendees (or whatever the correct
    wording is).
    
    Jack
733.4Typically only after hours...GUIDUK::BURKEMeet my pet wolverine: FANG.Sat Feb 25 1989 21:4510
    Employees have also brought their pets into the Main Street facility
    in Bellevue, WA after hours.  I personally like animals, so it didn't
    bother me to see a friendly dog wandering around the software area.
    
    It would be interesting to know if there are any policies regard
    pets in facilities.  Either way though, I can't bring mine in...
    
    *;'}
    
    Doug
733.5ULTRA::HERBISONB.J.Mon Feb 27 1989 11:0917
        Re: .3
        
>    I wonder if this falls into the same category as smoking, ie, by
>    unanimous consent of the meeting attendees (or whatever the correct
>    wording is).
        
        In the U.S., the correct wording is `no smoking in conference
        rooms (or anywhere else in a Digital building except Designated
        Smoking Areas)'. 
        
        `Smoking by unanimous consent' has several problems, which have
        been discussed in another conference (NEWS::NO_SMOKING).  Many
        of the same problems would apply to bringing pets into meetings.
        For example, problems arise if someone who objects to the
        presence of the pet arrives late for the meeting. 
        
        					B.J.
733.6I've done it...SUPER::HENDRICKSThe only way out is throughMon Feb 27 1989 12:3921
    I checked with security one weekend when I was dogsitting over
    Thanksgiving and had an emergency come up.  According to them dogs
    are absolutely not allowed, forget it, no way.  
    
    I was in the middle of moving last fall, and had a rather young
    kitten who spent 3 work days in my car in between homes.  One afternoon,
    all our managers were out at a seminar.  It was a cold, rainy day,
    and I had on a beige jacket that was very similar in color to the
    kitten...I just couldn't resist.  You couldn't see the kitten at
    all, and I walked right past security with him on my shoulder.
    
    Everyone came by to see him in my cube that afternoon -- it was
    quite fun.  I 'got caught' when I went to the bathroom and the kitten
    freaked out and set up a roar.  One of the security officers was
    walking down the hall at the time.  I got a dirty look and a few
    remarks about "inappropriate" behavior for a DEC employee.  I took
    the cat out to the car...
    
    I wouldn't do it again, but it really was quite a bit of fun.
    
    
733.7Not A Great IdeaEAGLE1::BRUNNERVAX & MIPS ArchitectureMon Feb 27 1989 13:229
I think bringing animals into work is a bad idea unless:

o  the animal clearly provides a necessary service to its owner 
   while at work --   guide dog or security at night; and

o  the animal can be left unattended for periods of time and not cause
   a disruption.

I guess I see a difference between children and animals.
733.8It may be a local optionDR::BLINNEschew obfuscationMon Feb 27 1989 14:2319
        I don't see a big difference between children and animals as
        regards the justification for bringing them into the workplace; if
        a child were providing a necessary service (although we don't have
        seeing-eye or hearing-ear children), that would be justification,
        but in other cases, in my opinion, it's usually not justified.
        
        The question of whether the animal or child can be left unattended
        for periods of time without causing a disruption is irrelevant.
        
        I've never seen an explicit policy on this.  It's definitely not
        covered in the Corporate Personnel Policies and Procedures (the
        "orange book").  It might be covered in a U.S. or Corporate
        Security policy, and I'm sure they are written down, but they're
        not available on-line anywhere that I'm aware of.  I called the
        Corporate Security Operations number (in MSO), and the person to
        whom I spoke said he was unaware of any corporate policy, so it's
        probably at the discretion of the facility security manager. 
        
        Tom
733.9COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertMon Feb 27 1989 15:508
There is an explicit Spitbrook policy which says no dogs.

The policy was issued by Heff, formerly site manager.  I doubt it has been
rescinded.  It has its origin back in Tewksbury, when someone had brought a
dog in which lost control of its bodily functions, leaving something for Heff
to step in.

I saw him shortly after it happened; he was fuming!
733.10TOLKIN::KIRKMatt Kirk, 291-8891Mon Feb 27 1989 17:049
    re .6
    
    I am EXTREMELY allergic to cats and would have been a bit peeved
    to find that you brought one into a cubicle near me.  If you were moving
    and couldn't find anywhere else to leave the cat, maybe you should
    have considered leaving the cat with a vet.
    
    (Since some people are allergic to plants, or to molds growing in
    soil, should we consider banning plants?)
733.11exceptionsRUTLND::MCCORDwho caresMon Feb 27 1989 21:3921
    RE .10
    
    A little compassion never hurted anybody.  The person (author of
    .06) felt sorry for the kitten, and brought the kitten into the 
    building.  True, the kitten never should have been left in the
    car and yes it should have been put in a cage or box when it was
    in the building.
    
    If I brought in a kitten, and the person in the next cube was
    allergic to the kitten, I would gladly move it to another area
    of the building.  I also hope that person would handle the situation
    in a calmly manner.
    
    Pets have no business being at the work place, but thier are exceptions
    to every rule.  I think .6 had a good reason.  That kitten was no
    threat to anybody.
    
    Believe it or not, that kitten felt that cold weather, and probarly
    wish somebody would show some "compassion" for it.
    
    -John
733.12bad, bad kittyCLOSET::KEEFETue Feb 28 1989 10:553
    Good thing the kitten wasn't smoking a cigar. 
    
    Mind-boggling allergic ramifications! Call security!
733.13Why don't we reserve the office for adult humansDLOACT::RESENDEPnevertoolatetohaveahappychildhoodTue Feb 28 1989 10:5818
At the risk of getting flamed out of the conference, I'd like to say I 
don't think the office is an appropriate place for either animals or 
children.  However, if I had to pick the one that seems to cause the most 
disruption, it would certainly be children.

I have only known of two or three instances where an animal was brought 
into the office.  In every case it was {caged/a baby something/completely 
quiet and subdued}.  In one case it was a seeing-eye dog; in other 
instances people have brought pets into the office for short periods for 
one reason or another.  I've never seen one cause much of a disruption.

Babies, on the other hand, seem to completely disrupt the workplace, so 
that even if you're trying to get some work done, it's impossible due to 
the traffic and the noise caused by admiring adults and by the baby itself.

Just my humble opinion...

							Pat
733.14What about the homeless?TOLKIN::KIRKMatt Kirk, 291-8891Tue Feb 28 1989 11:4511
    re .11
    
    A little compassion never hurt anyone, but work is not the
    place to bring the kitten (or, as .13 suggests, children).
    
    This "exception" could be extended a bit - there's a drunk who sleeps
    out on the vent in front of our building (there isn't really, but
    lets assume there is).  Should we bring him into the building and
    let him sleep in the lobby, or should we contact a homeless shelter
    (assuming, of course, that he wants shelter to begin with)?
733.15exceptions can be controlledRUTLND::MCCORDwho caresTue Feb 28 1989 12:2523
    re. 14 (Matt)
    
    I believe there is a difference between a homeless person, or drunk
    and a pet.  The person is trespassing and should be removed from
    the private (dec) property by the local police.  
    
    I'm not saying Fluffy can come to work everyday, but to leave
    a kitten in poor weather is cruel.  The kitten is not a pit bull.
    It was no threat to "anybody" as long as it was controlled.
    
    "Exceptions can be controlled".  If an employee brought the cat
    in, because the house was being painted, that would not be an exception.
    A little common sense comes into the picture here.
    
    My previous note (.11) stated the kitten never should have been
    left in that car, but his/her intentions were good to bring it
    in to the building.  How would you like to be in a car for three
    days, in miserable weather?
    
    Anyway, this company has much bigger problems to worry about then
    worrying if Morris is the building.
    
    -John
733.16Babies are important on the job too!NEWVAX::PAVLICEKZot, the Ethical HackerTue Feb 28 1989 12:2525
    re: .13
    
    How many minutes per week are lost to the presence of babies in
    your facility?  We see babies here occasionally, but their impact
    on time is negligible.
    
    Personally, I *want* to see babies visit here.  Two people in our
    unit recently had babies.  We had to live with them being pregnant
    on the job for nine months, but we aren't allowed to see the product
    of nine months of hard work?  Come on...  Will we have rules saying
    that a woman cannot be pregnant on company time?  I've seen more
    time lost due to morning sickness and associated pregnancy issues
    than I've seen due to occasional baby visits!
    
    I am very scared about the strict separation of business and personal
    life.  I am working at business _because_ of my personal life. 
    I once worked at a company which believed that it was more important
    than my personal life  (Ever have a manager inform you that you
    will be working 7 days a week for a period of 3 months? -- with
    no added compensation, of course).  I work there no longer.
    
    I cringe at the thought that "valuing differences" means that
    occasional visits of a child are forbidden.
    
    -- Russ
733.17Let's move the babies discussion where it should beNEWVAX::PAVLICEKZot, the Ethical HackerTue Feb 28 1989 12:345
    I suggest that additional conversation regarding human children
    be followed up in the "Children in the Workplace" note rather than
    here.
    
    -- Russ
733.18the answer is -- 42ANALYZ::KIRICHOKin through the out doorTue Feb 28 1989 12:364
O.k.
	What purpose do fish have?  Unless you have a tank full of Babel Fish.

Don't Panic!
733.19so, IS THERE or ISNT THERE a corporate policy?REGENT::LEVINETue Feb 28 1989 13:0216
      
    
    I would like to pull us out of the "babies" rathole, and back into
    the "pets" rathole.
    
    I posed the question to my facilities manager, and got this as a reply:
    
"I followed up on your inquiry about bring your dog in with you on weekend.
Unfortunately, there is a corporate policy in place that states that only
animals training in the aid of hearing imparment or sight imparement are
allowed on Digital sites.  Sorry that we could not accomodate you."
    
    SO apparently it is NOT up to individual facilities, it is forbidden
    on a corporate level.
    
    Can anybody either back this statement up or refute it?
733.20exceptions can be controlled, sometimesTOLKIN::KIRKMatt Kirk, 291-8891Tue Feb 28 1989 13:4114
    re .15
    
    If my house is being painted, I stay at a friend's house or in a
    hotel (seriously, I do - the fumes make me sick).  The same can
    apply to a kitten.  The kitten should not have been left in a car
    (we all agree on that), but neither should it have been brought
    into work.  It should have been put up at a friend's house or a
    "hotel" instead.
    
    This is a simple health matter.  I am allergic to the danders the
    kitten gives off.  If the kitten were left in a cage in an office
    next to, or near mine, the spread of danders would be reduced but
    still not eliminated, and eventually the concentration would become
    enough for me to have a reaction.
733.21COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertTue Feb 28 1989 14:443
Bah!  It was raining.  Thus it was not below freezing.  The cat was perfectly
fine in the car -- probably happier in the car amongst its owners' family smells
than in a strange cage in a boarding kennel.
733.22A corporate policy? At Digital?DR::BLINNBluegrass: music aged to perfectionTue Feb 28 1989 14:4627
RE: < Note 733.19 by REGENT::LEVINE >
        
>    I posed the question to my facilities manager, and got this as a reply:
>    
>"I followed up on your inquiry about bring your dog in with you on weekend.
>Unfortunately, there is a corporate policy in place that states that only
>animals training in the aid of hearing imparment or sight imparement are
>allowed on Digital sites.  Sorry that we could not accomodate you."
>    
>    SO apparently it is NOT up to individual facilities, it is forbidden
>    on a corporate level.
>    
>    Can anybody either back this statement up or refute it?

        Well, Corporate Security doesn't seem to be aware of the policy,
        so it's probably not universally enforced.  It seems to me that it
        would be reasonable to ask your facilities manager for a copy of
        the policy, or for the name of the person who told him there was
        such a policy, rather than asking in this conference. 

        I asked our Plant Engineer's office, and they didn't know of such
        a policy, but referred me to the regional manager's office (for
        southern New Hampshire).  His assistant has promised me that she
        will get me the policy, assuming there is one.  I'll report back
        when I hear from her. 
        
        Tom
733.23It increases DEC's liability...CANYON::ADKINSInsert Relevant Phrase HereTue Feb 28 1989 14:4615
    It's my opinion that pets (as opposed to seeing-eye dogs) have *no*
    place in the workplace.
    
    I was mauled by a dog when I was about 8 and I still have a phobia
    about dogs. If I were be bopping down the hall of my facility late
    at night and round a corner to come face to face with some pooch
    the body would go into instant over-load. Dogs can sense fear
    and could likely attack. (Especially if you just rounded the corner
    near their owner and is startled and may assume you're attacking.)
    
    If I were ever in this situation, my first call would probably be
    to my lawyer, with the owner and DEC in mind.
    
    Jim
    
733.24The rights of non-animals take precedence...BUBBLY::LEIGHBear with me.Tue Feb 28 1989 14:5610
    re: notes about cats and dander allergies
    
    This reminds me of the old smoking policy.  Hmm.
    
    Should we propose, as a new policy, that all facilities have designated
    animal areas?
    
    There's a straight line if there ever was one.  Lighten up, folks!
    
    Bob Leigh
733.25unvarnished truth...SUPER::HENDRICKSThe only way out is throughTue Feb 28 1989 15:0318
    As the owner of the kitten in question, let me add that the other 2 1/2
    days had been warm and comfortably sunny, and I engaged in this
    particular prank on a cold rainy afternoon in October.  It was neither
    a life-threatening nor animal-abuse situation - he had a down quilt, a
    litterbox, and plenty of food and water as well as visits from me every
    2 hours. 
                                             
    I would never put myself in a position where I *had* to take an
    animal to work, and I also happened to know that everyone within
    shouting distance were pet owners themselves.  If anyone had expressed
    the slightest feelings of discontent, believe me, I would have taken
    him out to the car, or taken vacation the rest of the day to take
    care of him.  
    
    It was a prank, and as it happened, my co-workers got a kick out
    of it.  My apologies if hearing about it offended anyone.
    
    Holly
733.26We don't need no steenking corporate policyDR::BLINNBluegrass: music aged to perfectionTue Feb 28 1989 15:258
        I got a call back from southern New Hampshire regional facilities,
        and they are unaware of any corporate policy.  They believe that
        there is an SNH policy, and that it's driven by health
        considerations.  The person who's responsible for health policies
        is, apparently, out on sick leave (broken appendage), so they
        couldn't pin it down for me.  More later as the story unfolds...
        
        Tom
733.27oh give me a home...WR2FOR::BOUCHARD_KEKen Bouchard WRO3-2/T7Tue Feb 28 1989 16:469
    re:-1 I won't ask *which* appendage.
    
    To the owner of that kitten: So it lived in your car for three
    days...must have really smelled sweet,to say nothing of all that
    cat hair.
    
    
    One thing someone briefly touched on...LIABILITY. Who's responsible
    if that cat or dog causes physical damage? (or even bodily harm)
733.28not to worry...SUPER::HENDRICKSThe only way out is throughTue Feb 28 1989 17:2717
    The kitten and I were staying with a friend at night, but it was
    not possible to leave the kitten there during the day.
    
    Since you asked, cat litter doesn't get particularly disgusting
    in 3 days, especially when you start with a layer of baking soda,
    and scoop the stuff out daily and put it in a garbage bag in the trunk.
    And how much cat hair do you think an 8 week old shorthair generates!
                               
    As someone who has had cats for years, I decided that it would be
    better for him to spend 3 days in the car, seeing me during my lunch
    hours and 2 other times per day, than to be alone all day at that
    age, or boarded.  It worked out fine, and he's a healthy, happy,
    playful, adolescent orange tabby at this point. 
               
    Holly
    
    
733.29Allergic to cats... no doubt about itHSSWS1::GREGThe Texas ChainsawTue Feb 28 1989 18:5123
    
    	   I'm deathly allergic to cats.  If one it within 50 feet
    	of me for any length of time I become totally unproductive.
    	My eyes swell, my sinuses close up, and I itch wherever
    	I come into contact with cat hair.  It takes between 10 and
    	90 minutes for these symptoms to develop.  I'm told it's 
    	some enzyme in their saliva that affects me.
    
    	   If a cat ever enters the workplace, you can be sure I will
    	be forced to exit.  Once the symptoms start to develop, it 
    	takes me in excess of two hours to 'clear up', after leaving
    	the 'infested zone', and even longer for that zone to become
    	cleared of the offensive enzyme.
    
    	   I am told that this allergy is fairly common, at varying
    	degrees.  Obviously, I'm in the highly allergic category.
    
    	   Still, I'd rather see a cat in the office than to hear it had 
    	frozen to death in the car.  However, if it was just brought in
    	as a gag, I'm afraid I'd take a very dim view of it.  No gag is
    	worth that amount of suffering.
    
    	- Greg
733.30EAGLE1::EGGERSTom, VAX &amp; MIPS architectureTue Feb 28 1989 19:053
    Re: .29
    
    Sounds like the same symptoms as cigarette smoke for many people. 
733.31how about rabid, man-eating dogs?CLOSET::KEEFEWed Mar 01 1989 08:5614
    This company needs more babies, and fewer crybabies.
    
    I am deathly allergic to the sun, carpetting, flourescent lighting,
    smoke, modular partitions, yellow paint, linoleum, black hair and
    screen cleaner. Every day at work is sheer agony. But do I whine
    and complain at every opportunity? No sir!
    
    I am bothered however by the pack of wild man-eating dogs that prowls
    the halls of ZK on the weekends and late at night. There must be 30 of
    them. If only someone would read them the policy, I'm sure they'd clear
    out of here in a minute. Till then though, don't go wandering around
    ZK3 at night without your running shoes.
    
    They get in through an entrance near the fitness center, I think.    
733.32Definitely not a good ideaTOPDOC::AHERNDennis the MenaceWed Mar 01 1989 09:4016
    The only time I ever took pets with me on the job, they had a decidedly
    negative effect on the environment.  My wife and I were caretakers
    for a 64 acre, undeveloped island on the coast of Maine and we brought
    our two siamese cats with us to live in a 2-man tent.
                                    
    They were quite vocal in their reluctance to accompany us in the
    canoe on our daily circuit, especially if it was raining, but mostly
    because the aluminum was very cold on their paw pads and the white
    water going through the tide race was sometimes a bit much.  
                                    
    So we generally left them to their own devices and, despite having
    been brought up as indoor cats, they quickly learned how to hunt,
    much to the detriment of the local rodent population.  If it were
    known, this would have not put us in good stead with the conservation
    minded owners of the property.

733.33Re .31NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Wed Mar 01 1989 10:2437
>    This company needs more babies, and fewer crybabies.

    This would be more appropriate in TERZA::PARENTING.
    
>    I am deathly allergic to the sun, carpetting, flourescent lighting,
>    smoke, modular partitions, yellow paint, linoleum, black hair and
>    screen cleaner.

    Try WASHDC::ENVIRONMENTAL_ISSUES, JOET::HOME_WORK, HANNAH::TERMINALS.
    Does anyone know of a conference that discusses black hair?
    (Perhaps OPG::RICHARD_THE_THIRD -- did he have black hair?)

>    Every day at work is sheer agony. But do I whine
>    and complain at every opportunity? No sir!

    Please take it to CLOVAX::MOANS.
    
>    I am bothered however by the pack of wild man-eating dogs that prowls
>    the halls of ZK on the weekends and late at night.

    This may be discussed in CANINE::CANINE, or, if they're chihuahuas.
    IOALOT::SMALL_ANIMALS.

>    If only someone would read them the policy, I'm sure they'd clear
>    out of here in a minute.

    Have you tried UCOUNT::ZKO_SUGGESTION_BOX?

>    Till then though, don't go wandering around
>    ZK3 at night without your running shoes.

    Specific brand recommendations are in NAC::RUNNING_CLUB.

    
>    They get in through an entrance near the fitness center, I think.    

    See UCOUNT::ZKO_WELLNESS_PROGRAM.
733.35Ignorance of the law is no excuse?WMOIS::D_MONTGOMERYYaz die-hard without equalWed Mar 01 1989 11:3112
    re .34 (and others)
    
    Lack of a corporate policy certainly doesn't imply that the behavior
    in question is acceptable.
    
    For instance,  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a corporate
    policy stating that murder is not allowed on Digital property.
    
    My point is that lack of a policy specifically stating that animals
    are not allowed does not mean that animals are allowed.
    
    -Monty-
733.36ENOUGHBUSY::KLEINBERGERDisic Vita Lux HominumWed Mar 01 1989 12:3220
    I am setting this note no/write.
    
    This is twice in one week I have had to set a note no/write. I am
    not the notes police, but I am a moderator, albeit one of eight
    of this conference.  "WE" as moderators have asked that you follow
    the guidelines of talking about things that happen at DEC, about
    DEC, and ramifications of annoucements, etc.  
    
    This topic when it started was indeed a good topic, as it can happen
    that pets can on occasion be brought into DEC, but again, this
    topic has degenerated into a PEAR::SOAPBOX....
    
    		TAKE IT THERE!
    
    
    If you feel you have a GOOD reason to have thistopic re-opened
    send me mail - after hours I will read it and possibly reconsider.
    
    Gale Kleinberger
    co-mod
733.37Let's try to get back to the topic..DR::BLINNI&#039;m pink, therefore I&#039;m SpamThu Mar 02 1989 12:5950
        Gale received some feedback by MAIL, which she has shared with
        her co-moderators.
        
        One person commented that PEAR::SOAPBOX isn't really as bad as we
        sometimes seem to imply.  Please don't think that we are maligning
        the honorable SOAPBOX when we recommend that discussions be moved
        there -- rather, we are acknowledging that the sponsors of that
        conference have given it a somewhat broader charter, which allows
        discussion of almost any topic, including things that have little
        or nothing to do with working at Digital. 
        
        Someone else suggested that we are patterning our moderation after
        the EURO_FORUM conference.  I got the impression that this was not
        intended as a compliment.  I don't really know -- I don't follow
        that conference. 
        
        One person made the very reasonable suggestion that we re-post the
        text of the TOPIC NOTE (733.0), and remind people that this is a
        topic about whether or not there is a policy on the matter of
        animals in the workplace.  This topic has strayed down a variety
        of "ratholes", and little real light has been shed on the original
        question.  Some of the digressions really have little to do with
        either the original issue, or with "The way we work at Digital",
        other than to demonstrate, once again, that it's often easier to
        ask forgiveness than to get permission.  The guiding principle
        is, of course, to "do the right thing", but it's often difficult
        to get an answer to the question "right for whom?".
        
        In the hope that we can get back to the original matter (about
        which no real resolution has occurred -- no one has been able to
        produce a copy of the policy, if there is one), I'm going to open
        this topic up again.  However, don't be surprised if notes that
        have nothing much to do with "The way we work at Digital" or the
        question of whether or not there is, in fact, a policy about
        animals in the workplace get returned by one or another of the
        moderators. 
        
        Please re-read the topic note.  If you have something useful to
        add that relates to the topic note, please contribute. If you want
        to discuss something unrelated to the topic note, but related to
        "The way we work at Digital", please start a new topic.  If you
        want to discuss something that's unrelated to "The way we work at
        Digital", please do it in an appropriate forum, but not here. If
        you want to flame the moderators for our policy or style, please
        use MAIL. 
        
        Thanks!
        
        Tom
        co-moderator
733.38ELBA had a badge ... But is it right?KBOMFG::POSTVeni Vedi VinciThu Mar 02 1989 15:1537
I worked in one facility for three years. A staff secretary owned a big
retriever (dog). The secretary was single and obtained permission to
bring her dog to work every day.

The dog was real nice and well trained. She curled up underneath her
desk and slept the day away.

The marketing department was then moved to another facility. The dog
moved with us. Everybody knew the dog (called ELBA) and everybody liked
the secretary. There was never really a problem with having the dog in 
the office.

There were some individuals who did not care for ELBA's presence but
never really said anything. Aftrall, ELBA was a tradition. She had
been around for as long as anyone could remember. ELBA even had an
official DEC badge with her picture on it! But ELBA was just a pet.

In the new office, ELBA quickly learned which employees had doggie
biscuits in their drawers. And everyday at around 09:30 ELBA would
do her rounds and SIT in front of your desk and look at you with
real sad eyes.

I was transferred internationally and we do not have any pets in our
office now. Our facility is however   GUARDED  by  police dogs and
the security guards to walk around with their dogs.

To make a long story short, I personally believe that the workplace
IS not a place for PETS (even though I liked ELBA and had my own
doggie biscuits for her). The workplace is for working.

There really is no reasonpet should have to come to work. The
owner can put the pet up in a kennel, give it to a friend or relative
or find another viable solution. 




733.39No cats, no kids -- Bring on the clowns!WECARE::BAILEYCorporate SleuthFri Mar 03 1989 09:5263
    There is an article in the new Psychology Today pertaining to the
    fact that productivity and morale are improved if there is a little
    fun on the job.  I agree, and I implement the concept for myself
    whenever I can by making jokes, dressing for holidays (green socks
    for St. Patrick's day or something), trying to poke into notes when
    I can, and generally doing what I can to make my corner interesting
    and relaxed WITHOUT negatively impacting on other people.  I work
    with one person allergic to cats and another allergic to pollen.
    I ASK the second before I bring in any flowering plants or bouquets,
    and he understands that if he detects the smallest sign of a reaction
    the flowers get moved or given away.  Period.  (He's usually ok
    with florist products, especially if they aren't right under his
    nose.)  I wouldn't even consider an animal.
    
    It seems to me that the consideration is whether bringing in ANYTHING
    unusual to the work environment enhances that environment or detracts
    from it.  (We are here to WORK, after all, although some people
    forget that.)  I think flowers (for the non-allergic) tend to uplift
    spirits and they are basically passive, although they are NOT
    acceptable if someone reacts to them -- people come first.  (I never
    heard of mold and other plant allergies impacted by occasional potted
    plants, but if they caused someone to react they should go.)
    
    I don't think kids or pets (except for the fish, which fall into
    a category of passiveness and impact similar to plants!) belong
    in the kind of work environment we have at DEC.  They are distracting,
    they get bored, there's no regular accomodation for them, they can't
    really be comfortable all day, they sometimes make really aggrivating
    noise (especially babies, but that's another topic!)  They are (for
    some people) a brief amusement, but they're not the best way to
    bring amusement into the workplace.  When DEC gets site daycare
    facilities I think kids might be more appropriate, as long as they
    stay in the daycare centers except maybe at lunchtime.  If the daycare
    centers have appropriate space and facilities, maybe occasional
    puppies or kittens would be ok there, too, to amuse the kids and
    to be visited by their owners -- assuming those in charge think
    that's all fine.  (I don't know anything's coming, by the way --
    I just forsee site daycare as an inevitablility of the changing
    demographics of the workforce.)
    
    My workplace is right next to the site DCU.  Parents always bring
    urchins along when they drop in for cash or whatever, so we are
    overdosed with short visits from screaming babies and annoying small
    toddlers -- I hate it, but what can you do?  I haven't seen any
    animals in the building here, but I wouldn't like to.  Bring posters,
    baloons for an occasion, birthday cakes, whatever -- but leave the
    animate at home where they belong.
    
    (PS -- the kitten discussed earlier had a "nest" in the car -- as
    long as the certainty of no allergies was pre-determined, I don't
    have a big problem with a prank visit if it was SHORT (then back
    to the car).  I know of a lot of outdoor cats who fend for themselves
    in the winter, so the car on a rainy day is not really a hardship
    on a small animal.  I don't think it's a good idea to bring one
    in for more than a half hour or so. BUT you can never be sure that
    an allergic employee might not be visiting the cube next door for important
    business reasons -- and is it fair to impose a health hardship [that
    is very common] on co-workers for the sake of your own amusement?
    I don't think of that as "doing the right thing".)
    
    Just my view.
    
    Sherry