Conference 7.286::digital

	Make sure you read it right, Bob, maybe the referal was intended to go 
the OTHER way!  :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) :>) 

    Forms can be obtained from Personnel.
    
    As for the hiring freeze, I know SWS is still hiring to fill specific
    customer requirements (PAYING customers, that is).  Don't know about
    the other organizations.  Also, the referral is good for a year,
    so if the person you refer is hired 12 months from now you're still
    eligible for the dinner.
    
    I've gotten several of those dinners over the years, and it's really
    as easy and straightforward as the brochure suggests!
    
    							Pat

    What employee referral program!  I have referred people in the past
    through personnel and have received nothing...
    
    I guess this is another one of those things that you don't get till
    you explicitly ask for it???
    
    Valerie

    How long are those dinner vouchers good for?  When cleaning things
    of archeological interest out of my desk recently, I ran across
    one that I had gotten about 5 years ago and never used.  Is there
    a time limit?  It's not even the same cost center where I am now,
    nor the same district/region/state.
    
    Jon

    
    
    
    Hey folks...... One more time "WHAT DINNERS"!!!! I've never heard
    of this....

    I believe the program is run by the individual area organizations,
    but I might be wrong.  I know the "prizes" differ from area to area.
    
    The deal is this:  If you refer a qualified candidate to Digital, AND
    you aren't a manager hiring into your own organization, AND that
    candidate gets hired, AND that candidate wasn't also referred by a
    headhunter, AND the paperwork is done up front so when Personnel gets
    the application your name is on it, then... 
    
    You get a coffee mug or some such thing, and a certificate from
    Personnel entitling you to a dinner costing up to $100 at the
    restaurant of your choice.  You expense the dinner, enclose the
    certificate in the voucher, and turn it in to Personnel.  They then
    charge the cost center that hired the person.
    
    I've worked in three districts in two different areas, and all had
    implemented such a program.  I've also seen posters about it in some of
    the cafeterias up North, indicating it's not just a field program, but
    I don't remember what site I saw them in. I just always assumed the
    program was in effect everywhere.
    
    							Pat
    
    RE: .-1
    Where are you located?
    
    							Pat

    re .6
    
    	I have been working in NAC organization and referred a friend
    getting the job in the NAC organization...But  I was told that 
    DEC does not have a policy of offering anything monetary or sort
    of for referring a candidate...
    
    	Will you please verify whether it is different from group to
    group...
    
    Thanks
    
    Kandha
    

	re:     -< Does it work in all groups? >-

	Not in Software Services. 

        Within the last year, I referred three people, all were extended
	offers, two were hired. I never even got a 'thank you' from any
        of the hiring managers. Oh well, I suppose knowing good people are
	working for DEC, and not a competitor, is reward enough.

	Marc

    Re: .6
    
    Must be different from group to group. We recently got the following
    memo from personnel in our area.
    

                   I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:      2-Sep-1988 11:33am PDT
                                        From:      FORCE System Operator 
                                                   OAPRIV AT A1SCRUZ AT wr1for @WRO 
                                        Dept:      
                                        Tel No:    

Distribution:
(use Mail SDL function to view the Distribution List)

Subject: "NOW" Employee Referral Award Program

                                         From:      AUGUSTUS ALLEN 
                                         Dept:      WESTERN AREA EMPLOYMENT
                                         Tel No:    DTN 521-6583

Subject: "NOW" Employee Referral Award Program

    Digital's employee referral award program (RSVP) has been one of our 
    more effective recruiting tools.  As a result of the success of RSVP we 
    are proud to introduce the "NOW" (Name Other Winners) Program!  The 
    program will be in effect on September 6, 1988.
    
    The "NOW" award is a $100 dinner and includes the referral and hire of 
    exempt and non-exempt regular employees.
    
    "NOW" forms/brochures are available in the site forms cabinets.  If you 
    would like a form mailed to you, please contact Carolyn Kotila in the 
    Santa Clara and San Francisco Districts at DTN 521-4083 (408 748-4083) 
    and in the NW/O/IM Districts contact Sheryl Smith at (206) 828-1064.
    
    If you have any questions, please feel free to call me.
    
    Augustus Allen
    Western Area Employment Manager

    I recently referred an old non-dec collegue to a SWS position,
    He accepted, and 2 months later I received an RSVP "Be my guest"
    packet from area personnel (NYA). It told me to have a night on
    the town ($100 max), and send DEC the bill. I did, and recieved
    reimbursment.
    
    This was a year ago, but there are still posters around the office
    about the program.

    I believe that in the NY financial district we throw in a sweatshirt
    in addition to the $100.
    The mug as a referral reward is a thing of the past, about 4 years old.

    BTW: Banks and investment firms in New York give employees MUCH
    more than $100 for a referral.
    Considering that you save the hiring corporation the fee to the
    head-hunter, (this fee can be in the region of $10,000) I think we 
    should have a better (read "bigger") bonus too.

    
    I lot of computer company offer employee fees to referral.
    WANG offer $1500 for a senior level engineer, just an example.
    
    I think the reason why DEC doesn't have such a program is
    because it is a conflict of interect to the personnel people.

        I think the reason DEC doesn't have such a program is based
        on many reasons, none of which is "it is a conflict of interest
        to the personnel people".  I don't see how this "protects"
        the recruiters in any way.  They are, for the most part, on
        salary, not on commission.  They don't get paid more if they
        fill more jobs.
        
        I think the first and foremost reason is that DEC's recruiting
        organization is distributed, and (to the best of my knowledge)
        there is no central database in which all recruiting data can
        be found.  (I doubt there are even consistent distributed data
        across the various locations that could be merged to create
        a central database.)  This would make administering such a
        program extremely difficult, since more than one employee might
        recommend the same candidate to several different recruiters.
        
        Tom

re .13:

>        I think the first and foremost reason is that DEC's recruiting
>        organization is distributed, and (to the best of my knowledge)
>        there is no central database in which all recruiting data can
>        be found.

Perhaps this ought to be changed.  I got my job at Digital through a
headhunter.  After I accepted it, another headhunter I was working with
called and was quite impressed that the other one had succeeded in getting
my resume to the right people.  He complained that it's very difficult
to route resumes to the appropriate people in Digital.  I imagine that
a lot of good candidates are falling through the cracks because of Digital's
hard-to-penetrate recruiting system.

        RE: .14 (re: .13) -- I got my job at Digital by referral through
        an acquaintance, after a headhunter had spent some time attempting
        to get my resum� to appropriate people.  It was not the first time
        I had sought a job at Digital.  Eventually, the headhunter tried
        (unsuccessfully) to be paid a fee because I was eventually hired
        by Digital, even though he had been stymied by Digital's
        decentralized method of recruiting. 
        
        I don't think Digital is unique in this.
        
        Tom

    There's a person in our office attempting to transfer, and his feedback
    is that many of the recruiters he speaks to are contractors..
    
    karl

    Likewise, it took me a good deal of effort to get an interview
    from Digital. Perhaps it is an intentional screen to see how
    serious you REALLY are about wanting to get in? ;^)
    Calvin
    

	I must be the exception. When I was still in NY, I called a guy in
	Boston (an associate firm of my NY headhunting firm). It took a couple
	of months (2-3 maybe), but he got me 7 interviews in 4 days, including
	2 at DEC. No muss, no fuss.

eric

        RE: .19 -- Is this topic about your frustration with getting a job
        for your wife, or do you have real evidence of corrupt practices
        on the part of Digital's recruiters? 
        
        You are asserting that some of the recruiters are engaging in
        unethical behavior when you say that there is a "conflict of
        interest".  Of course, I can't guarantee that in every case there
        is "no conflict of interest", but can you prove that in *any* case
        there is?  
        
        The way I read your note, you seem to be implying that some
        outside employment agencies pay a "placement fee" directly to
        DEC's recruiters when they place the candidate in a job.  Can you
        prove this?  If not, then you should not assert that it is so,
        because it's a very serious charge.  If you *can* prove it, you
        should present the evidence to the right people, probably the VP
        of personnel and corporate security, not in this conference. 
        
        On the other hand, I'm not surprised that you've been unlucky in
        promoting your wife as a candidate.  Even if she is (in fact, not
        just in your opinion) very qualified, you would really have to
        spend almost all of your time scanning the JOBS infobase to find
        openings, and sending her resum� to recruiters, to have a real
        chance of placing her.  I doubt that's your job, and I suspect
        that if you devoted yourself to doing that, you would hear about
        it from your manager. 
        
        Your experience with regard to "feedback" from the recruiters is
        no different from what many existing employees seeking to transfer
        internally experience, and internal transfers are supposed to take
        precedence over outside hiring when there is a match between the
        candidate and the job. 
        
        If your wife really is well-qualified for a position at Digital,
        why doesn't she have her resum� in the hands of a good agency, who
        will see that it gets to *many* recruiters at DEC?  The reason
        that outside agencies succeed at this is often that they know how
        to present the candidate so that he or she appears to be a good
        fit for the job -- this is known as "marketing".  It's not easy,
        no matter what you think.  If it were easy, there would be no
        demand for it.  And it's not always fast, unless the candidate
        really *is* qualified. 
        
        Tom

    Someone could write a book about "getting into DEC" and make good money
    selling it... 
    
    The stories of people receiving form letters saying, "Thank you for
    your application.  Although we have no opening for you at the moment,
    we will keep it on file" well after they have started their new job at
    DIGITAL are legion...
    
    Marge

An employee referal program would be benefitcial to Digital.  It would 
generate a flow of good, qualified candidates;
provide extra incentive to employees to keep an eye out for candidates;
and would simply redirect the commision that usually goes to the 
recruiting agency.

$1000 for an employee to refer someone, as opposed to 3-4% of the
candidates first years starting salary to the refereal agency is a cost
savings as well.

Bob

    One of the best pieces of advice I've heard on this subject is to
    do the following:
    
    	1.  Attempt to locate a likely position for the person in question
    	    (using the JOBS listing or friends who know of openings).
    
    	2.  Forward a copy of the resume to the recruiter in charge
    	    filling that position.
    
    	3.  Forward a copy of the resume to the MANAGER looking for
    	    the hire, with a note stating that you think this might
    	    be a possible candidate for the job, and that the resume
    	    has been given to the recruiter in (2).
    
    The reasoning behind this is that the manager has a MUCH greater interest
    in getting the position filled than does the recruiter (not knocking
    the recruiters, mind you, but if you are losing revenue or productivity
    because of lack of qualified staff, you will have a VERY high degree
    of motivation!)  If the manager is interested, they will often contact
    the recruiter and arrange for the interview to take place.
    
    Another piece of this puzzle is the fact that a hiring manager is
    often MUCH more qualified to spot the candidate who is "just what
    we need" to get the specific job done.  To the recruiter, the person
    may be just another candidate, while to the manager, the person
    may be a goldstrike!
    
    A lot of the possible success of this strategy is to pick likely
    positions.  I would not advocate mass-mailing to all managers with
    open job reqs -- that would waste a lot of important managerial
    time.  Do some work up front, though, and you might be pleasantly
    surprised!
    
    -- Russ

        RE: .23 -- Russ, that's EXCELLENT advice, but let me temper
        it with a bit of reality.
        
        The only *complete* listing of open positions that most of
        us can access is the videotex JOBS infobase.  While *some*
        jobs are listed (usually by the hiring manager) in the JOBS
        conference, *all* open positions are supposed to be listed
        in the JOBS infobase.
        
        Unfortunately, all that's listed for contact information in
        what you *see* when accessing the JOBS infobase is the name
        of the recruiter.  So, unless you somehow know which manager
        has the position open, you're at the mercy of the recruiter
        to return your calls or electronic mail.  It's even a crap
        shoot whether you'll be able to communicate via MAIL with the
        recruiters, since many of them are contract employees, not
        regular DEC employees, so they're generally not listed in ELF,
        although mail sent through the MTS gateway should reach them
        if it's correctly addressed.
        
        So, for most positions, you're stymied after step 2.
        
        Tom

    
    3% to 4% of first year salary for placing a candidate with DEC?
    The last time I was placed by a head-hunter, Exxon Enterprises was
    charged 25% of my first year salary for the service - even though
    he spent only 20 minutes with me and led me to only one job opening
    (in which I was quickly placed).
    
    With respect to bonus programs, the only one I have been familiar
    with was Monchik-Webers: $500 for placement of a clerical person,
    $1,000 for placement of a professional. Theirs worked! Although
    many employees collected multiple bonuses, no headhunter fees were
    incurred by the Company from the inception of the program (up until
    the time I left).
    
    Digital should do so well. Maybe hiking the bonus and/or a little
    more promotion of the concept would be a good idea. With all the
    emphasis on expense control, this has excellent cost-reduction
    potential and represents a win-win situation for all (except the
    outside recruiters).
    
    Bob

    re: .24
    
    Interesting.  Our area publishes an open req list monthly (one line
    per req; you're supposed to refer to JOBS or the recruiter for more
    info).  What Tom says is apparently correct -- they've dropped the
    inclusion of the manager's name.
    
    This must have been a change within the past several months.  I
    can remember checking the list from time to time to see who was
    hiring for District and Area tasks.  The manager's name used to
    be present, so you knew exactly what groups were hiring.
    
    I find it interesting that they've stopped this practice.
    
    Oh well, I guess if you want to use the method I've described, you
    have to rely on that all-important "personal network" of contacts
    you need to develop at Digital.  (There should be an orientation
    course on developing a personal network!)  Seems that it's the only
    way to get things done sometimes...
    
    *sigh*
    
    -- Russ

   re fees for outside recruiters:

   I was told that Digital pays a maximum of $10K.  I believe most recruiters
   get at least 20% of the starting salary.

    My wife is an outside recruiter and has tried multiple times to
    get qualified applicants in for interviews at DEC.  Unfortunately,
    the personnel department here in Atlanta refuses to use outside
    recruiting firms.  This is a lose/lose situation as we (DEC) aren't 
    getting open positions filled and, at the same time, losing potentially
    good people.
    
    In addition, I'll have to disagree with the statement that the hiring
    manager has a _much_ greater interest in getting the position filled
    than the recruiter does (at least an outside recruiter).  Most (if
    not all) the recruiters I know work on 100% commission so placing
    that applicant into a position means money in their pocket!  Quite
    an incentive for keeping interest...
    
    Also, I've seen Employee Referral Programs that didn't work to great
    advantage because many of those hired were other employee's "friends" 
    that weren't necessarily the most qualified.
    
-Andy

>    In addition, I'll have to disagree with the statement that the hiring
>    manager has a _much_ greater interest in getting the position filled
>    than the recruiter does (at least an outside recruiter).  Most (if
>    not all) the recruiters I know work on 100% commission so placing
>    that applicant into a position means money in their pocket!  

	Digital recruiters are paid strictly salary, HOWEVER, their
	performance review is based partly on how long it takes them
	to fill reqs.  So, there is some incentive for them to
	fill jobs.

	When I worked in the Mid-Atlantic area, there was a local 
	incentive program to refer candidates.  If you referred
	someone who was hired, you got a $100 gift certificate
	to a local department store.  This was a limited program
	for specialized jobs, however.

  	Here in Bedford, the local jobs posting on the bulletin board
	does include the manager's name.  I guess this is site
	dependent

	As both a hiring manager and a job searcher at various times,
	I've found that recruiters run the spectrum from very good
	to horrible.

Frank

    When I was hired into the company in 1985, I believe the person who
    referred me received a "bounty" (probably around $500).
    
    As for current recruiting/job-hunting practices, I found dealing with
    recruiters more of a hindrance than a help.  Of all of my interviews
    (~10), exactly one was initiated by the recruiter; all others came as
    a result of my direct communication with the manager (sometimes after
    I had contact with the recruiter).             
    
    >Mark (starting in a new position next week :-)

    re: .29
    
    FWIW, the MAA has replaced department store voucher with the RSVP
    dinner voucher.
    
    re: .28
    
    I was referring to internal recruiters.  External recruiters have
    a great interest in moving bodies to make bucks.

    I used to refer friends, those I knew to be well qualified. Then
    I had the following experience.
    
    I referred a friend with the following qualifications:
    
    	Dartmouth graduate
    	1Lt US Army, platoon leader in Vietnam
    	Honeywell manufacturing expediter for 5 years
    
    He had great difficulty getting personnel to talk to him. When he
    finally did talk to some Digital manufacturing folks, he was rejected
    by the first person who said he didn't have enough "balls". So John
    cranked up his assertiveness a little and was then rejected by the next
    person as "too aggressive".
    
    John quit trying with DEC. I quit referring friends; it was too
    embarrassing for ME. That was 15 years ago, and I haven't referred
    a friend since. 

    My understanding from my recruiter (employment specialist) is that DEC
    has written contracts with a number of outside recruiters and that they
    deal strictly with that set of recruiters insofar as possible...  When
    I get a resume directly to my attention from an agency, I cannot
    schedule an interview directly with that individual without first
    checking with our recruiter or her administrator.  The reason is that
    they may already have gotten the resume directly from the applicant and
    may be able to avoid any fee.
    
    Marge

     Hi, after reading through all the replies to this topic, 
I believe that some clarification is in order.

     First of all, Digital does not have an across-the-board
employee referral policy.  It is left to the discretion of each
organization.  However, employees should receive an acknowledgement letter
to confirm receipt of the referred resume.

     Digital receives literally hundreds of thousands of resumes per
year.  Everyone wants to work for Digital because of its reputation
as one of the best companies in the industry.  We have a strict
policy in place as to who we consider applicants because of the volume
of resumes we receive.  Yes, it is also Digital's policy to consider
internal applicants over external candidates.

     It is a recruiter's responsibility to fill requisitions in a 
timely manner.  Recruiters support Digital managers.  It is NOT a
recruiter's responsibility to find a job for every resume that comes 
across his/her desk; That would be an impossible task.

     It is in Digital's best interest to hire people without using
agencies so that we avoid paying fees.  Due to the volume of hiring,
agency fees can amount to a considerable expense.  Each employment 
organization within Digital tracks agencies and evaluates them.  Digital 
wants to do business with the best!  

     Digital has a recruiting system called TESS (Total Employment
Staffing Sytem) and it is even sold to customers under the name of
DECJOBMATCH.  TESS is distributed over five nodes where information 
about applicants and requisitions is entered.  TESS has the capability 
to match jobs with applicants and visa-versa, as well as run reports.
In fact, the TESS reports are often used in government EEO audits to
demonstrate that we actively interview, hire and promote minorities and
women.

     The information on the five TESS nodes is pulled up to a central
database each night and the VTX JOBSBOOK is updated from this central
database.  Recruiters have the ability to submit searches to the central
database to locate both applicants and jobs.  In additon, there is an
employee function to write/format resumes and search for job openings
(these are the same jobs that are posted on VTX).  Employees have access
to TESS via Job Resource Centers (the main one is located at the MILL).

     I hope the above helps to clarify some of the concerns expressed
in the previous replies.

     ...And, remember, the key to finding a job at DEC is NETWORKING!


Regards,

Nancy Rayna
Corporate Employment
Employment Systems Support

        Nancy, thanks for providing the feedback.  It's especially
        helpful when someone who is personally involved in a function
        can help the rest of us understand it.
        
        With regard to access to TESS, what other facilities have Job
        Resource Centers?  I believe there is one in MRO3 (at least,
        there used to be one there).  But how does an employee find
        the nearest one?  They don't seem to be listed in the Digital
        Telephone Directory (with the exception of the GMA one in the
        Mill, and it's not easy to find).
        
        As for sale of TESS to customers as DECJOBMATCH, I'm not sure that
        it's still being actively promoted.  I heard something about the
        engineering group responsible not having ties to marketing any
        more, and no one accepting responsibility for managing it to make
        it compliant with VMS V5.0 and the LMF, or some such.  Perhaps
        you know more about this than I do, and in any case, it's not
        particularly relevant to this topic.
        
        Tom

        Decjobmatch has just been retired as a product...
        
        q
        

    
    I have a question.
    How does a employee contact the TESS?
    Can we call them?(Any one has the phone number?)
    Or can we send the resume over?(Mail stop?)
    
    Although it was said in .34 that it is the best interest of DEC
    to hire people without paying agency fee,  I am not sure DEC is
    doing that to save money.

        Any DEC recruiter can enter a resume into TESS.  You can't do it
        directly, but you can do it indirectly through any DEC recruiter.
        Since you personally seem to have a very negative attitude about
        DEC recruiters, that may not be to your liking, but that's how
        it's done.  (Actually, you *may* be able to enter a resume for an
        external candidate into TESS yourself if you go to one of the Job
        Resource Centers, like the one in the Mill.) 
        
        One of the major drawbacks of the VTX JOBS infobase is that there
        is useful information in TESS that isn't displayed by the VTX
        system, like the hiring manager's name.  Also, the job levels
        seem to be a "secret", which makes little sense.
        
        Tom

    Comments about the VTX JOBS infobase can be sent to GRIMLY::JOBSBOOK
    _bill

	Where in the MIll is the Job Resource Center?

    MLO 3-4
    
    See Sallyann Duffy at pole 10B
    
    

    To whom do I refer an experienced salesman who wants to work for DEC? 
    
    
    
    Thanks -
    
    Ken
    

    Digital had an add in Washington Post about a week ago looking for
    people to call on the Telecommunication's industry. Jim Webb (@MEL) was
    the person to contact.

    Re: Note 601.42 by JAIMES::SHERMAN

>   To whom do I refer an experienced salesman who wants to work for DEC? 

    The standard answer is to refer him to the district personnel office in
    the local sales office. They will get his resume and other info and it
    will probably get lost in the shuffle. 
    
    If he really wants a job, then he should also call the local sales
    office and get the names of the sales unit managers and the sales
    district manager, who are the ones who actually do the hiring. He
    should try to get an appointment with them to sell himself. If he's
    interested in more than one location, then he should pursue this same
    process in each location. 
    
    In my own hiring at DEC six years ago, that's the way it worked, and
    that's the way it still works, as far as I can tell.