Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Security policy directs that the employee who signs in a visitor is
    responsible for that visitor and must make certain that the visitor is
    in the company of an employee at all times. Security ought to be
    notified.

    I agree with .1:  Notify security.  That sort of behavior is
    unacceptable.  At the very least, an employee should be *asked*
    to "babysit" and should have the opportunity to agree!  That would
    ensure that the child is being properly taken care of.
    
    While I can certainly understand an employee needing to bring a
    child into the office (daycare problems, school out, etc.), I can't
    understand leaving an unsupervised child in an office.  My concern
    isn't so much for the employees being disrupted as it is for the
    feelings/welfare of the child.
    
    Let me say for the record that I have found myself in the "babysitter"
    role several times in my history at DEC.  I was always asked ahead
    of time if I minded, it was never for an extended period of time
    (no more than half an hour), and it was always for a good reason.
    
    I can't remember now if you indicated whether you've spoken to the
    person in question.  Obviously, letting him/her know your feelings
    would be preferable before calling Security. 
    
    Good luck.  This seems like a touchy one.
    
    

    A not_so_liberal_approach to allowing children:
    
    Many (16) years ago when I worked at Raytheon (Bedford) we were driving
    in the Bedford area one Sunday and my infant daughter needed to go to
    the bathroom.  Since I had my badge in the car, I stopped at the office
    to take her in. The bathroom was 20 feet down the hall from the
    entrance/guard station. I was refused permission- 
    
    since company insurance regulations did not allow children in the
    facility!  Pleading and arguing with the guard did not help.  Monday
    morning I had a chat with the head of security, who already had a
    written report on the 'incident', and he explained the policies
    involved. 
    
    
    
    Besides the issue of inconvenience, lost time, etc. - what would
    happen if:
    
    	1.	the child was hurt?
    
    	2.	the child did some sort of damage?
    
    
    			-Barry-
    

        In my personal opinion, the office is NOT the place for children,
        except when CLOSELY supervised.  In many cases, the poorly
        supervised children cause a MAJOR disruption for other workers.
        This is not Ding-Dong School. 
        
        If the employee has a problem with child care (school on vacation
        or whatever), that's not an acceptable reason to bring the child
        to work.  Digital's personnel policy on dependent care is #6.38,
        and it explicitly states that it is not Digital's current policy
        to provide dependent care at Digital facilities. 
        
        I'm surprised that I can't find any specific personnel policy
        that covers this matter.
        
        Tom

>        I'm surprised that I can't find any specific personnel policy
>        that covers this matter.

One has already been quoted in this topic --

employees bringing in visitors are required to supervise them at all times.

At DEC we "do the right thing" and don't insist on walking visitors to the
bathroom unless the work area is sensitive or the visitor is potentially a
problem.  Children are always potentially a problem.

ZK had a policy that visitors under a certain age could only be admitted during
work hours with specific authorization.  The local policy was implemented after
problems of the sort mentioned in .0.  (There's also a local policy forbidding
dogs in the facility as a result of Bill Heffner stepping into dog____ in TW
back in 1979.)

/john

>        
>        If the employee has a problem with child care (school on vacation
>        or whatever), that's not an acceptable reason to bring the child
>        to work.  Digital's personnel policy on dependent care is #6.38,
>        and it explicitly states that it is not Digital's current policy
>        to provide dependent care at Digital facilities. 
        
Well, gee, I don't know...in our building there are people who
occasionally bring their children in for a day (ages 4-9 or so), and
they don't seem to be a problem at all.  Given that these people would
have possibly otherwise had to take a day off, are you sure a blanket
rule is best, as opposed to "do the right thing".? 

Re .3:

I have worked at a site which required prior cost-center manager approval for
visitors, except during working hours on weekdays.  There may thus be Digital
sites where you can't stop to let an infant use a rest room on a Sunday.

BTW, the site eventually loosened up enough to merely send a report on all
unexpected after-hours visitors to the cost center manager after the fact
(although you could avoid that by making prior arrangements).
				/AHM

    I and several of my colleagues have from time to time brought a
    child to work for several hours at a time so they could see where
    Daddy works and what he does.  Arraingements have always been made
    for their mothers to pick them up before lunch, etc.  
               

The issue here is not so much whether children should be allowed in as whether
children should be allowed in and then not supervised by their parent.

Don't blow this up into something it isn't -- deal with the specific case!

/john

    O.k. Re -1.   Sticking to the subject:
    
    Children at the work place should be subervised by the parent, but
    in the case of .0 the parent should have asked for someone to watch
    over the child.  I'm sure there's a PRO in the group (if not how
    about a VAXstation?) there are games they could play while they
    wait for the parent, or in the case of our group, the children would
    draw pictures using SIGHT and PRO/SIGHT or they would use the markers
    and draw on the white boards.  
    
    Also in the case of .0 the parent should have made prior arrangements
    so that either the meeting could be held on a different day (or
    time) or that the child would come in and visit on a different day
    (or time).
    
    A child should be let in to see what the parent does.  I know I
    was told what my father did, but never understood until I went in
    for a day.  Needless to say he didn't get a whole lot done, but
    he had planned it so I would come in on that day, so he schedualed
    (yea, I'm an engineer) his meetings for the day before and the day
    after.
    

    I occasionally bring my children in, and consider it a priviledge
    to show them what I do, and to meet my colleagues at lunch.  I 
    always stay within a few feet of them because I don't want to
    endanger the priviledge or the child.  Behaviour described in
    .0 endangers the priviledge, and affects me directly.
    It is clearly unacceptable, by both policy and consequences...MWR
    

    I agree with .11 
    		I intentionally introduce my children to my work
    place, co-workers etc.. so that my kids willbuild up a knowledge and
    perception of just what it is the takes their dad away from them
    for so many hours of the week. If you don't do this I believe children
    end up resenting the fact that work intrudes on what they see as
    their time.
    
		I believe in a humanist approach.
    That's one of the BIG reasons why I'm so happy working for Digital.
    I have the opportunity to work hard, build a career etc.. with all
    the stresses and midnight oil burning that that involves. But I
    am treated as a real human being who has a wife, family, home
    responsiblities and so on. 
    
    I don't want to see a lot of strict rules being drawn up and enforced
    to restrict activities like bringing my children into the office. 
    
    People like the person mentioned in .0 pose a threat to my freedom.
    Why not have a quiet word to him? Point out that with a little more
    thoughtfulness  and better communication his kids might be very
    welcome.
    							Bruce @ Canberra,Oz
    

    I had a different situation occur last weekend ...
    
    I had come in on the weekend to do work.  After a few hours, someone
    else arrived, and brought their child.  And, after some period of
    time, the child got restless (I guess).  The child began to scream
    (and quite loudly at that).
    
    At first, I ignored it.  The child would scream out perhaps every
    minute or so.  As the situation got worse, the child would scream
    out every half minute or so for perhaps 10-15 seconds (yes, after
    a period of time, the child was screaming more than the child was
    silent).  When I could no longer be productive, I decided to approach
    the person (I didn't know him) and ask him to try and quiet his
    child down.
    
    It went something like this:
    
    	Me:	"Excuse me.  I'm finding it difficult to concentrate
    		 due to your child.  Can you please try and quiet her
    		 down?"
    	Him:	(*VERY* dirty look, no reply)
    	Me:	"I know it might be difficult," [the child was young]
		"but please do the best you can - thanks"
    			And as I started to leave ...
    	Him:	"I *AM* doing the best I can"
    
    	And then I left
    
    From his looks, it was clear that he thought I was an inconsiderate
    jackass.  Perhaps I was.  I just felt that, even on the weekend, this
    is a place of *WORK*.  Yes, things are more lax on the weekend, but I
    didn't feel it was right to disrupt OTHERS from working.
    
    I'm not married, so perhaps I can't understand enough about children to
    make a judgment.  But if you can't control you child, is the workplace
    really a good place to bring your child for the day, particularly at
    the expense of the disruption of other's work?
    
    I'd appreciate any comments - thanks.

Re .13:

	It would be interesting to know what happened after you left.  I know 
how you feel but I can understand the other guy's situation as well.  It is 
verrrry possible that the dirty look you got was the tail end of the same 
look the kid had been getting for some time.

    I have brought my son in to work on rare occasion. This was
    several years ago when I worked in MKO. He was very quiet and
    even I hardly knew he was there. I would not have brought him
    in if I had had the slightest doubt that he would not create
    a disturbance. I certainly would not have had him there if I
    was going to have to leave him alone (he was 5-6 during those
    visits). Had he been a problem we would have both left. 
    
    Obviously I have no problem with people bringing kids to work
    as long as they are quiet, well behaved and don't disrupt others.
    There are often times that no one is available to take care of
    a child at home. Work still has to be done. Now a days I have
    a terminal at home and can usually watch my son at home and still
    work. Not everyone has that option. I would think that it is in
    the companies best interest to have someone come into work with
    a child (even though that persons productivity may be reduced)
    rather then miss a whole days work. Again, as long as only the
    parents productivity is affected.
    
    I wish I could bring my son in here. His school is with in walking
    distance and there are times I have to leave early to get him
    because my wife can't. I'd rather bring him back here (which the
    rules prohibit) then lose the rest of the day.
    
    				Alfred

    I also agree that the manager in .0 was very rude. Still, in
    America, it is becoming  progressive corporate thinking to institute 
    a company supported Day Care Center. 
    
    Globally speaking, when both parents work, taking care of a child
    is not easy. Regular Day Care Centers can not be trusted in some
    cases, are not near the place of work, etc.. (Wenn I say not
    trustworthy, I am thinking of all the sexual abuses that were
    reported in the Media). 
    
    I do feel for the other contributors. It would be nice to see
    your child during lunch or to have nearby.
    
    The company is here to do work. That is priorty 1 and that is
    clear.
    
    Would it not be possible to organize a full time "Baby Sitter"
    paid for by Employees interested and have a room for them.
    
    I do not know if you know IKEA. It is a furniture store from
    Sweden. They have something like this, which makes it great
    for families to go shopping there. There kids are taken care
    of there while they shop.
    
    The same principle, your kids are taken care of while you work.
    
    Any comment appreciated.
    
    Peter   

    :-} ON
    
    Gee, I don't have any children...but I have this parrot who hates
    to be left alone all day and she's such a darling little thing
    and she hardly _ever_ bothers anyone, couldn't we please extend
    the concept a little?  
    
    :-} OFF
    
    Seriously, company sponsored day-care doesn't address what happens on
    the weekend. I think the main objection is the expense in relation to
    the number of employees it would directly benefit.

    There is really no problem as long as children are treated by
    Digital as either a baby which must be constantly supervised,
    or as an adult who does not work for Digital and hence should
    be constantly with their escort while within the facility.

    Obviosly it isn't easy to discuss problem behavior with one's
    own supervisor/manager.  Thus it becomes a greater responsibility
    as one becomes more important not to abuse the system and one's
    co-workers.  This applies not just to bringing children to work.

        Everything can be carried to the extreme.  While I don't agree with
        leaving my child unattended (not in this day and age), I feel that
        they should be allowed into the building for at least a short period
        of time.  Here at LMO2 we have a "new" rule where no child under the
        age of 6, or 5, or something, is allowed in AT ALL.  My wife and I came
        in while I was out of work (due to accident), to pick up my pay check,
        the security officer quoted some rule at me and told me that I had
        to leave my 2 1/2 child in the lobby.  Needless to say my wife stayed
        in the lobby as well.  Now I know that a 2 1/2 year is not going to
        hang around and play games and could be disruptive, but I was only
        going to run in and grab my check, show off my little one, and then
        blow out of there.  Shouldn't this be allowed?
        
Wish I could change the rules.

Jeff

    RE: .19
    
    In my opinion the rule keeping children out of the office area is
    a good one.  Parents who wish to show their children to their
    coworkers can do so in the lobby area.  However, children in an
    office area WILL be disruptive.
    
    The manager discussed in the base note was insensitive and highly
    unprofessional.  That manager should be made aware that such conduct
    will be neither condoned nor tolerated by office neighbors.  Each
    employee has a job to do, and babysitting is not part of my job.
    
    Claude Bench
    
    
    
    

    re: .19,.20
    
    There are reasons to bring well-behaved and supervised children
    into an office area for a brief period of time, other than
    simply showing them off to coworkers.  If the child is forced
    to stay in the lobby, how can the child see the office where
    the parent works, to learn about what the parent does and maybe
    get excited about it and do better in school so they can come
    work here someday, etc., etc.
    
    I know it's difficult to remember being young, but didn't you
    ever wonder where your parent(s) went every morning, and wonder
    about what they did, and why they were doing it, and why was it
    a good thing to do?  Brief, supervised visits of well-behaved
    children should not be a problem.  Except for the people who
    like to make up more and more rules around here, for the "good"
    of the company.  Apparently no one bothers to take into account
    that when there's enough pointless rules like the new one at LMO2
    and others, it tends to demoralize people, eventually to the
    point where there could be an overall impact on performance
    and bottom line.  But the late 1980's is an age where people get
    measured on how many new rules and regulations and policies they
    can come up with per quarter, especially when they can make us
    more closely resemble our new competition, to impress Wall Street.
    Anything that doesn't have an immediate, direct, positive impact
    *today* on the bottom line is squashed like a bug.
    
    Chris

The occasional child care crisis is a fact of life for parents with 
small children: snow days, day care vacations that don't jibe with 
Digital holidays, any number of things can happen. 

Doing the right thing has to include being flexible enough to
tolerate, if not welcome, children in those occasional cases. When we
are confronted with the unexpected collapse of best laid plans, my
wife and I see who might be able to take the day. If neither of us are
able, we compare daily schedules to see who could best manage the
distraction for the day or part of the day. If ends up being me, I,
with no bad conscience, no apologies to anyone, bring in the kid. Also
bringing in, I might add, sufficient distractions and entertainments
to minimize his terrorizing the office area. That seems to be the best
compromise for the company and me. 

If I were forced to choose between leaving my 3-year old home alone or
with a day care provider in whom I had no confidence, or come in
to an important meeting, frankly, Scarlett, screw the meeting. 

John H.

    Re .last_few:
    
    I'm speaking as someone who isn't a parent (yet).  If someone brings
    a young child into the workplace for a short period of time, there
    should be minimal disruptions.  I thus see nothing wrong with such
    a practice.
    
    If a child is brought into an office to spend a sizable portion
    of the workday (or the whole day), that would be inherently disruptive,
    and would get in the way of _somebody_ doing his or her work.
    
    If, as in the case of the base note, a child is brought in with
    the idea that the parent can go on about his or her business while
    others look after the tyke, that _is_ unprofessional.
    
    Since the advent of modems and speaker phones, there's not been
    a screaming necessity for the physical presence of an individualin
    all but a few situations.  If a parent has to look after a child,
    for whatever reason, he or she could do so at home with a technological
    assist, if required.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    As an individual contributor with no kids I've observed lots of
    people bringing their kids through.
    
    As far as I'm concerned they are more than welcome if they are quiet,
    well supervised, and don't detract from our ability to do our work.
    
    They are also welcome as long as the parent is responsive to the
    needs of the other workers and takes the child elsewhere if he or
    she starts to become even a slight disturbance.
                              
    I would hate to see them excluded.  I think parents who handle the
    needs of their children in the workplace well should not be penalized
    for the insensitivity of a few parents. 

RE: < Note 546.23 by MARKER::KALLIS "Don't confuse `want' and `need.'" >
                          -< why not get tech-help? >-
    
>    If a child is brought into an office to spend a sizable portion
>    of the workday (or the whole day), that would be inherently disruptive,
>    and would get in the way of _somebody_ doing his or her work.

Sorry, I'm a non-parent myself, but I disagree with the word "inherently" 
as I have seen to many counter-examples 

/j

    Re .25 (Jeff):
    
    I'd be intrigued how s child can spend a sizable portion of a day
    in an office environment without requiring somebody's attention.
    
    
    If someone had to keep an eye on the child, than that person was
    being diverted from doing work; hence, the child disrupted the work.
    "Disruption" doesn't have to equate to noise or destructive behavior.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

  I agree with Steve...  There is a big difference between bringing your
  child in for an hour to show them where Mommy and/or Daddy works, vs.
  expecting a child to spend a whole day, in a new and facinating environment,
  acting as a professional employee!   I have trouble with that myself!  8-)
  
  No one in this company is so indispensable, that they can't be missed for 
  a day due to a "daycare emergency,"  and anyone who thinks they are is
  probably boardering workaholism...

  Bob

I have seen technicians and administrative employees bring their child 
in for the day on occasion, the children (my guess) are in the 5-8 
year old range.  My observation was that the child brought coloring 
and such to do and was on very good behavior, and the employee managed
to be acceptably functional (though doing it every day might be a
productivity hit). 

My point:  Some people <can> make it work.  So, don't ban it, leave it
to manager's discretion. 

("...DEC has no rules, only guidelines...")

    
    Come on now, I come to work to get away from my kids! :-)))
    
    Seriously, if the manager left the child unsupervised then its wrong.
    Babysitting is *NOT* part of the job.  If the child is in for a
    short visit then there's usually no problem.  As a group there is
    a good posibility that your fellow workers have heard about your
    family and visa versa and this is a way of molding the two worlds.
    
    But, the office is not for fulltime kids and not a place for the
    distractions a child causes.
    
    I guess we can apply the age-old law, in the office "a child should
    be seen and not heard".
    
    GOG
    

       Some compassion for the parent in question may be inorder.
    Although I don't agree with leaving a child unsupervised he may
    have felt that the child was safe with his fellow workers.
    
        Hopefully Digital will setup some sort of child care centers
    within the walls of each site even if its only a staffed play area
    where parents could leave their kids for a few hours to attend a
    meeting or get a few things done. As parents of 2 preschoolers we
    could not afford the current daycare rates and thus our familly
    struggles off a single parents income. Unfortunately a large number
    of parents have decided to terminate their carrers inorder to bring
    up their children and I'm sure Digital has lost many good workers to
    parenthood. We as parents face many hardships and would welcome more
    support from our company and its employees. Bringing a child into the
    work environment is not something that should be looked at as a problem
    but as a solution to an employee not losing productive time at work. 
    Hopefully Digital will be the forerunner in solving the child care 
    problems of its employees and we as parents can only hope that it
    will be soon. I shutter to think that we could loose people to
    other companies because of better child care benefits. 

    							Neil...
    

    Re .30 (Neil):
    
    >   Some compassion for the parent in question may be inorder.
    >Although I don't agree with leaving a child unsupervised he may
    >have felt that the child was safe with his fellow workers.
     
    Yes, but I also have to have compassion for the other workers.
    According to the note, the person in question didn't ask the others
    if it would be all right to bring the child in; it was just done.
    Now suppose the person suddenly having to care for the child misses
    an item (phone call, message, etc.) that could impact the operation
    of the office.  Whose fault is it?  Who will get nailed for it?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    
            Has anyone heard anything about DEC opening an employee
    day care center in it's Hudson, MA facility.
    
            My wife, who is employed in the corporate day care field,
    has read about this somewhere.  If true, this would seem to be a
    change from the policy as referred to in previous responses.
    
            Steve

For what its worth, I haven't heard a word, though I'm sure it would 
be instantly oversubscribed.  Day care facilities near this plant seem 
to be having their own industry boom.

As a kid who seen (and helped) his Dad work for YEARS:

My Dad owned a variety store attached to our home.  I grew up with a heathly
respect for what my father had to go through to feed/cloth/shelter me.  I
also like to believe that I have a VERY strong work ethic (good for DEC!)
as a result.  I would not want to deprive my kids of this benefit.

As a Dad who wants his kids to know what work is all about:

Don't deprive my kids of the above opportunity, please.

As an employee/coworker:

Bring the kids in.  Great, I'd love to meet 'em.  When I decide to get back
to work, that's it -- I wanna work!

As a Dad:

[flame ON]
My God!  What would the local police and/or social services have to say if
this "father" left his kid alone at home for 3+ hours ?  It is clear from
his behaviour that he has a strong sense of work-responsibility, and I won't
comment on his sense of parental responsibility because I don't know him 
personally.  Sorry, - no reflection on my coworkers - but, I wouldn't trust
ANYBODY that I didn't know intimately with MY kids.  If it was a home-related
as opposed to work related issue, I would take immediate and direct action
with the parent.  Just reading about it, I already harbor a small amount of
fear for the child's welfare.

Since it IS a work-related issue, and this guy can control your immediate
professional life, I wish you (belated, I'm new to this notesfile) luck.
I don't know what my reaction would've been.  Anywhere from a polite "did
you think it wise..." question to typing up a message BLASTING him for this 
NEGLECT of his child and his coworkers.  Too many other factors here.
[flame OFF]

As just another nosy-noter:

What WAS the resolution ?  Has the problem been addressed ?  Did it recur ?

Scott.

================================================================================
Note xxx.0                   Co-Worker Attitude!!!!                   No replies
SCOMAN::KETRON                                       31 lines  19-OCT-1988 23:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    
    RE:: 32
    
    
    My husband and I both work at Digital, the same plant.  We cannot
    afford a sitter right now.  My son is 7 and very well behaved. I've
    been on second shift and my husband on first.  I bring my son in
    with me everyday for a half hour until my husband can take him home.
    The security people love him, they always help him get his badge
    and ask him how school was that day! The people in my group, some
    60 of them all love him too.  My son probably knows more employees
    than I do at this point!  I also share an office with four other
    people, so someone's always in the office when I arrive.  I've never
    had complaints ab;out him being there either.  I keep a book for
    him to read or paper for him to drawer on with crayons and he makes
    pictures for my co-workers at times.  Even my manager brings him
    candy on occasion.  I feel as long as it doesn't bother my co-workers,
    they actually enjoy his visit each day,or disrupt my work, I will
    continue to bring him in.  My son has even attended informal meetings
    from time to time.  Keep in mind that when a child is so well accepted
    as part of the group, the less they will strive for attention because
    they don't have to, they already are in the lime light!!!!!  My
    son feels that all of these people, well above his age, are his
    friends as well as mine.

    I vote for it.  I no longer have kids available.  I did, however,
    enjoy the freedom to bring them into many places such as university,
    own business, DEC.  DEC is something like a family and I want it
    to stay that way.  I also recognize that kids can be a pain sometimes
    but I'll put up with any reasonably well behaved one - most of the
    time.  Take the vast majority of human beings and what is the most
    important thing in their lives?  I have not heard much about day
    care in DEC, I suspect because it does not exist.  I know several
    single parent households in my unit, suspect what that costs
    (psychologically during the work day), and think DEC could do big
    PR, loyalty, etc. things along these lines - at least in the larger
    facilities.
    
    Fred

    I remember the look on my son's face.   When he was really young
    I sometimes HAD to take him on customer's sites.  Don't ask the
    conditions.  I turned him loose on a terminal and he was happy.
    A few years later he missed his school bus and I was stuck on the
    job so I went to pick him up and later took him home.  I showed
    him what happens on newspapers and how disk drives worked.  Wasted
    on an 8 year old?  Probably!  Kids need to know what their parents
    do and where they are, what they think of.  Every time I drove to
    the above listed newspaper I passed an old brick warehouse where
    I recall my father leaning out the top floor window to talk (or
    rather yell) down to me and my mother when I was young. (less than
    6)
    
    To expect to support young people for extended periods without proper
    facilities could create a different kind of problem though.

          <<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 732.0                      CHILDREN AT WORK                      No replies
MSCSSE::LENNARD                                      13 lines  21-FEB-1989 14:39
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    Why are so many children allowed in Digital workplaces?  It seems
    to be very prevalent in N.H., particularly on public holidays and
    during the February school vacations.  I find it very disturbing
    to have children crying and running the halls during the workday.
    
    Other then being highly unprofessional.  I would think it places
    Digital in an extremely vulnerable position if one of these kids
    is hurt in a Digital facility.  I've had people tell me that it's
    because child-care is so difficult to find in N.H.   Well, I submit
    that that's too bad, but Digital has no business getting involved.
    
    Why does Personnel/Security allow this to go on?  ....and how many
    people out there share my feelings on this subject?

>< Note 546.38 by LENNARD

	Venting today, are we?

>    Why are so many children allowed in Digital workplaces? 
>    Why does Personnel/Security allow this to go on?  ....and how many
>    people out there share my feelings on this subject?

	Not this one.  To me, the minor inconveniences that might occur due
 to having a child on the premises is more than compensated the good feeling I
 get knowing that I work for a company that isn't so structured and rigid that
 it's afraid to let a little humanity peek through.  If it were to become
 an everyday thing, I could understand the complaining but that doesn't seem to
 be the case at all.  Sit back and take a deep breath.

							--Mike

>   <<< Note 546.39 by TRITON::CONNELL "Down on Toidy-toid 'n Toid Avenue" >>>
>
>>< Note 546.38 by LENNARD
>
>	Venting today, are we?
>
Nicely put.  I know I couldn't have said it so politely.

/dan

    Who is this Lennard guy. First in one topic he complains about the
    clothes people wear, and then in another topic he complains about
    "unprofessional" behavior by parents who have to bring their kids in.
    
    Remind me to absolutely never work for him! 

    Re .-1
    
    Maybe that has something to do with the 'employment' note where
    the complaint was about the difficulty of getting a job.
    
    Raise shield and duck...
    
    Dave

    Re: .42
    
    Ratta tat tat tat tat!
    
    Twern't my 'employment' note.

Having children and family at the workplace is refreshing for me. Back at
the good ol' maximum security prison (IBM), I had a hard enough time
bringing in stuffed animals let alone children! 

However, the person bringing the kid in should keep the child in check. But
this is common sense, I hope. Colliding with running children in the aisle
should probably be prevented. Folks in my area are pretty responsible about
it. 

    Maybe if the children had jackets and ties on it would be ok!:-)
    
    Mother always told me - if you look your best, you will act your
    best. 
    
    Kevin
    

    Actually down here (Andover- Dascomb rd.) security is restricting
    where children may wander.  I know for a fact that they aren't allowed
    in engineering.  This created a hassle for me on one weekend day
    when I had work to do, I wanted to work but yet be able to have
    my daughter with me.  I asked security about this and they blurted
    out something about insurance, etc.
    
    Re: Mr.Lennard
    
    I was very sympathetic to your thoughts on personnel recruiters.
    But your "ventilation" on a dress code and children beg me to ask
    you if are getting sick of DEC.  As one who spent two entire years
    working as a contractor at various companies, let me tell you there
    aren't many that can compare with DEC.
    
    David

    
    I counted ten in MK1 today.  Not a real problem.  
    I was not distracted.  The children were not disruptive.
    (Some were running copies for the secretaries)
    Two were playing (Nerf) pingpong in a conference room.
    My son is at his aunts this week, my choice.
    But, I do regret never having had this opportunity when
    I needed it most, when he was younger and I was struggling
    to survive in manufacturing.  Perhaps the less fortunate
    DEC employees at DAS should send there children to MK1.
    Can they run a copy machine, sharpen pencils, play pimg pong?
    
    cbc

>< Note 546.47 by APACHE::CLARK "Jander Lives" >
>    I counted ten in MK1 today.  Not a real problem.  

	This is probably obvious to parents of school-age children, but I'll
 say it for the benefit of those who aren't:

		This is school VACATION week for most areas.

	I think it's perfectly understandable that families with 2 working
 parents might have to have a child accompany them to work during vacation
 weeks.  Under normal circumstances I'd be surprised to see 10 kids visiting
 here (BXB2) in one year.

							--Mike

Keep the kids.  It's nice to be reminded there's a real world out
there and a reason for what we do.

- greg

    
    After spending 18 years working for Honeywell it was very surprising
    to see children spending time with their parents at work.
    
    I can honestly say I really was impressed with Digital!  I've been
    here almost 3 years and have seen quite a few children here, very
    nice feeling, and not once have I seen the children mis behaving.
             
    It's nice to know that you can bring your children in if you need
    to, or want to spend a day showing the kids what we do.
    
    Cal.
    

        RE: personal attacks in some replies (in this topic and others),
        esp. directed at Mr. Lennard:  It would make the life of this
        moderator much simpler if you would either send them by MAIL, or
        even pick up the telephone and call (talking over the phone can be
        MUCH more effective than Notes, even though you miss out on the
        clues that are often present in a face-to-face meeting).  If you
        *must* write them here, please keep them pure; don't mix in
        substantive responses with the personal jibes, so that I can
        return them to you without feeling I'm disrupting the flow of the
        discussion.  Do you get my drift?
        
        Tom

    
    Further on the school vacation discussion, I find it amazing 
    to note that "Single Parents" seem to be more prepared for
    school vacation than the double income parents.  These children
    with two working parents *may* be at a disadvantage.

    cbc