Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

You can order it from the SDC.  It is not generally available
on the net.

- greg

    Why not?
    
    - ���

1.	Size.... It's huge and the net in and out of ZK is overloaded enough..

2.	We want people to buy CD's.

						mike

    
    We've had quite a lot of trouble in actually getting CDs out of the SSB
    in Galway. It took two-three months for our VMS Docset CD to arrive,
    and we've already let at least two other groups copy it, as they aren't
    expecting theirs for months yet.
    
    I hope things will get better over time, but currently, it doesn't seem
    to be *any* easier to get CDs than TK50s or any other media.
    
    Trevor

    re: .3
    1) Place it outside ZK
    
    2) Why?
    
    - ���

    In the US, it is pretty easy to get CDs.  CD readers are very
    inexpensive (in terms of transfer cost), and CDs themselves are cheap
    too.  To get a CD, just order from the SSB, and you get it a few weeks
    later.  Or get yourself on ADS or something like that.

    I have the most recent consolidated documentation disk, and it requires
    about 176,000 blocks to store.  I, unfortunately, can't be a
    distribution site (I need the CD reader for interactive use).  If
    someone is willing to act as a distribution site, I'd be willing to
    copy the files over to your machine; send MAIL if you're interested. 
    I'll be in a class all of next week, though, so I won't be able to
    arrange anything until I return (unless you send MAIL over the
    weekend).  Also, I'll need access to a WORLD:WRITE directory or I'll
    need proxy access ...

	-- Jeff

VMS doesn't plan network distribution of documentation but we don't
oppose anyone who wants to provide it (we do discourage them but that
is a disparate issue).

We need CD established as the "bus" by which we distribute things.
Online documentation seems a good place to start.  We are abusing
the network for mass publication ... we should quite definately
contintue to use it for mass communication.

If Europe or other geograpphies are experiencing difficulty getting
CDs please send me mail.

- greg

    In an ideal world you're absolutely right. What a shame that the ideal
    world ain't here yet.
    
    - ���

    If engineering want to distribute by CD, then why not talk to the IS
    functions. Surely this must be in the plans for each office LAN.
    
    Perhaps they are already and I just haven't discovered them.
    
    Malcolm

>    If engineering want to distribute by CD, then why not talk to the IS
>    functions. Surely this must be in the plans for each office LAN.
    
    I'm not sure who is the subject in the clause after the "then." 
    Hopefully it's not "Engineering."  Engineering doesn't tell IS or any
    other function how to distribute software and documentation within
    those functions.  I think Engineering is in favor of each function
    planning to have CD servers on each LAN.  This is in contrast to the
    earlier model of "all VMS network kits come from BULOVA" or the current
    model of "all VMS network kits originate from VMSKIT and find their way
    to a handful of remote distribution sites."  Rather, all CDs come from
    SSB and each LAN can have one or more CD servers of sofware and
    documentation.
    
    --Simon
    

    You may wish to review the BOOKREADER conference on BULOVA::BOOKREADER,
    Note 14 and replies...
    
    Ron

    I know  this  is over two weeks old, but thought that I'd add a short
    note supporting the  non-network  distribution of docs and "released"
    software via the net.  The cost is enormous, and the alternative (CD)
    is dirt cheap.  We're going through some growing pains right now, but
    let's  try  to  fix  the  problems,  not  just  create  more  network
    distribution sites.  the only thing we  should be "distributing" over
    the  net  (in terms of software) is unreleased  software  like  (e.g.
    field tests).
    
    There  ARE people working to make the CDs and  readers  available  to
    solve this problem -- I have 120 RRD50s on order  to be distibuted to
    GIA  sites  world  wide, and some 75 or 80 GIA ADS  subscribers  have
    switched their  subscriptions over to CDROM distribution.  We will be
    creating customized internal  discs, etc.  The first internal only CD
    was created in June, and it contains something like 200 products.  
    
    The  bottom  line  is  that  we have  the  opportunity  to  save  the
    corporation  big  $$$  by  implementing  CDROM  for  distribution  of
    internal software, and it's too good an opportunity to pass up.
    
                                Andy Ostrom
                                GIA Software MFG MIS MGR
                                (Also GIA CDROM ADS PROGRAM MGR)

>    The  bottom  line  is  that  we have  the  opportunity  to  save  the
>    corporation  big  $$$  by  implementing  CDROM  for  distribution  of
>    internal software, and it's too good an opportunity to pass up.
    
I can't speak for GIA, but if CD's follow ADS on this side then we've
still got a problem.  We typically get ADS distributions for people 
who left our group over a year ago.  And yes, we've done our part to 
update the lists.  Also, support usually gets things about two weeks 
after customer calls start coming in.  CD's are great but the 
bureaucracy we surround them with is a big reason to keep network 
availability.

So far it seems like CDs are easy to get.  It's the readers that are hard to
get.  We were quoted 30-JUN for delivery of 2 of them.  Still no sign of them.

Dick

Heck, at least you could order them. I can't even order one - no $'s.

So cost is not a reasonable reason for not getting a CDROM reader.  The internal
price for a RRD40 or RRD50 is less than $500.

Didn't get it yet?  Have you tried asking your Order Management Folks?  OR
maybe IEG, or whoever you ordered it from??  I ordered mine sometime in May,
got a July 15 delivery date, and got them last week!  Only problem I have now
is where to put them, since I don't have room for the controller in my little
BA23 GPX...

This may be a mild flame, but don't complain about delivery, if you haven't
asked for a status...or at least tried to follow up on where it is...


Mark

    .16
    
    	Gee, must be nice to have the $$ to order doc sets and such.
    We don't have the money to buy people terminals or modems.
    And what is that documentation stuff you talked about :-) the
    only documentation I can usually get a hold of is what I print out
    myself.
    
    Kevin

.17

I've pestered the person in our group who is responsible at least once a week
for the last several.  She, in turn, has pestered IEG.  The response is that
they are back ordered (ie: there aren't as many drives as orders for them).

.18

If you have the $s to order hardcopy, it is cheaper to order the CD (and the
reader).  If you don't, then how do you look up things like system service
or run-time library calls?  I have never seen a PostScript version of the
VMS doc set.

Dick

    I second the comment on contacting IEG for your readers.
    
    I was sent a confirmation of my order stating they would ship on 
    July 15 and I had my reader a few days after that.  
    
    You can check your order on VTX.  Use the IEG menu and select "Check 
    your order status".  You will need to know at least your cost center 
    number or the DEC number of the order.
    
    BTW, it works great!
    
    	/s/	Roger
    

Re: .19

>> reader).  If you don't, then how do you look up things like system service
>> or run-time library calls?  I have never seen a PostScript version of the

I don't. I usually stumble around and eventually figure out the calling 
sequence. Actually, I've gotten fairly good at figuring out if something should
be passed by value, reference, or descriptor. It's figuring out _what_ should
be passed that sometimes takes hours, if I can't find some other code that
uses the system service/RTL call.

Actually, I'll put in a plug for looking at the VAX Ada toolkit bindings.
You'll find the datatypes and passing mechanisms of all of the routines.
Of course, this only helps for the VAX bindings, though sometimes the C
bindings are described in the comments.

Even if you don't know Ada, you should be able to figure it out.

			Steve

    
    RE :.4
    
    I've had some correspondence with the people in the ESSB about my
    complaint about the CDs not arriving very quickly. It seems that for
    the orders that they have been able to trace through their system, it
    wasn't their fault that the disk took a long time to arrive. 
    
    They say that they are working with the other groups involved to get
    the whole ordering process made more efficient. In my view, this can't
    happen quickly enough.
    
    Trevor