| Note 207.52 How will Women Vote? 52 of 81
CADSE::WONG "Le Chinois Fou" 13 lines 27-SEP-1988 23:45
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Uncle Ronnie's cuts in student grants many years ago came pretty
damn close to making me drop out of college...in spite of him,
I clawed my way through college. There are alot of unfortunate
people who weren't as lucky and didn't survive.
What a pity...
I forgot who said this, but...
"Twenty years ago, you voted for the person who, you thought, would
do the most good for this country. Nowadays, you vote for the person
who would do the least harm."
Note 207.64 How will Women Vote? 64 of 81
HYEND::JRHODES 30 lines 29-SEP-1988 09:42
-< Another vote against Bush >-
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RE: .52
I graduated high school in 1984. I had my social security payments
cut off at this time (A Reagan/Bush policy). I had been receiving
these payments since the time of my father's death in 1977. In 1977 my
mother was back in the workforce to support our family making wages
comparable to secretarial pay (not very good). In 1984 she just
managed to pay off the house she and my father purchased in 1972--
a long hard struggle!
For me, I had the choice of taking out MANY loans or asking my mother
to take out a mortgage on her home (which she had struggled so hard
to finally pay off).
My older siblings had their social security payments to help out
with school (along with loans) that I would not get. Therefore,
I decided I just *could not afford* to go to school. I did not
want to have to be in debt for the rest of my life to get an education.
I joined Digital in December of '84 as a secretary (something I
had practically no training for) -- with hopes of having school
paid for. Now that they have their taxable tuition laws (another
Reagan policy) it is making my life more difficult today to stay
in school.
With the effects that Reagan and Bush had on my life (I *always*
wanted to go to college - a dream I had taken away), I WILL NOT
vote for Bush.
Julie
Note 207.73 How will Women Vote? 73 of 81
CADSE::SANCLEMENTE 26 lines 30-SEP-1988 12:51
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re : .64
> For me, I had the choice of taking out MANY loans or asking my mother
> to take out a mortgage on her home (which she had struggled so hard
> to finally pay off).
> My older siblings had their social security payments to help out
> with school (along with loans) that I would not get. Therefore,
> I decided I just *could not afford* to go to school. I did not
> want to have to be in debt for the rest of my life to get an education.
> With the effects that Reagan and Bush had on my life (I *always*
> wanted to go to college - a dream I had taken away), I WILL NOT
> vote for Bush.
I sense (correct me if I am wrong) from your note that you feel
you are in some way owed money for college from the government
and George Bush stole it from you.
People forget that the government is simply the taxpayer. Can you
give me a reason why someone who chose not to go to school when
they were younger should pay (taxes) for you to go to school?
Please no answers like "we waste billions on defense . . . ", that
is not justification for misuse of money somewhere else.
- A.J.
Note 207.74 How will Women Vote? 74 of 81
ANT::JLUDGATE "Borribles Rule Okay" 14 lines 30-SEP-1988 13:20
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re: .73
is it misuse of our money to educate/improve the population?
if a person seeks to get a higher education, that person will
most likely be earning higher wages and paying more taxes in the
future.
leave it to conservatives to take the short view and save a
couple thousand dollars today and lose tens of thousands in
a few years/decades from now.
............................................jonathan
Note 207.75 How will Women Vote? 75 of 81
AKOV13::WILLIAMS "But words are things ..." 25 lines 30-SEP-1988 14:42
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Jonathan:
I believe education is one of the best places for us as a nation
to invest. The question, in my opinion, is just where the investment
income should come from. Of course, it must come from the taxpayers
but the middle group, responsible to collect the monies, distribute
them and collect that which is loaned is best situated as close
to the people as possible. This, to me, is the state.
I strongly believe the federal gov't should concern itself with
national issues - individual equality, national defense, etc. and
the state gov't's should concern themselves with administrating
to the rules.
As earlier mentioned, Carter managed to invest a great deal
on tax money in education. But at what cost? Carter cut the defense
budget, leaving us badly exposed and keeping money out of manufacturing
(remember macro economics and the impact of spending money in
manufacturing as compared with service industries such as education
- monies spent in manufacturing have a higher multiplier than monies
spent in service industries such as education.) Let the federal
gov't dictate basic requirements to the states and let the states
implement and administer. The federal gov't can assist the needy
states when necessary.
Douglas
Note 207.76 How will Women Vote? 76 of 81
VAXWRK::SKALTSIS "Deb" 12 lines 30-SEP-1988 14:44
-< it's misuse when the funds aren't used for their intended purpos >-
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.74
want to talk about a misuse of "education" funds? I was in college
in the early 1970s, and while I did receive some NDSL loans (which
by the way, *I* paid back), a lot of my classmates used these loans
to buy things like cars and stereos. As someone who was working 3 jobs
to pay my way through school, while I was sorry to see the low interest
student loan programs go away, I could understand it because of
the rampant abuse. I guess it is one of life's hardest lessons when
a few people abuse things they ruin the system for everyone.
Deb
Note 207.77 How will Women Vote? 77 of 81
FSLPRD::JLAMOTTE "The best is yet to be" 18 lines 1-OCT-1988 09:40
-< Social Security has changed a lot since '39 >-
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a point I want to make about the disbursement of social security
funds.
Social Security is a government insurance program to provide pensions
and insurance benefits in case of death.
Children who have parents that die before they are able to support
themselves are the recepients of social security benefits. A few
years ago the government terminated those benefits for college age
children.
I do not feel that the original plan was a move to support college
education it was an insurance plan to provide for children in the
same manner as the parent would have had they lived.
The change in social security is an indication that maybe we as
a society do not feel we want to support college education for our
children.
Note 207.78 How will Women Vote? 78 of 81
TFH::MARSHALL "hunting the snark" 19 lines 3-OCT-1988 10:02
-< what do you mean "we", whiteman? >-
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re .77:
> ...maybe we as a society do not feel we want to support college
> education for our children.
Maybe "we" do not think that it is right to fund "our" child's
education though fear and intimidation of others.
If a man came up to you and offered you $30,000 that he had just
managed to beat out of the rich man up the street, would you take
it? Isn't that exactly what the government is doing through the
IRS?
/
( ___
) ///
/
Note 207.79 How will Women Vote? 79 of 81
MOSAIC::RU 10 lines 3-OCT-1988 10:38
-< Student load are needed! >-
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With the college education more expensive today, I don't
dispute that the students needs help. But the parents are
responsible also. Evidentially you shouldn't blame it on
Reagan/Bush.
The government should have tax free saving account for parents/
students to save college money. It should also have student
load available if the misuse and collection of loan money
is no problem.
Note 207.81 How will Women Vote? 81 of 81
SUCCES::ROYER "Fidus Amicus" 44 lines 3-OCT-1988 13:35
-< What price security? >-
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Loans are just that moneys borrowed and ment to be repaid.
Student loans are qualified, and the government gets stuck with the
bill if the lending instutition did not fully check out the applicant.
Now the Government is stuck paying many loans.. How many times will
the taxpayer get shafted before he elects someone to office who will
tighten the purse strings.
Social Security. HA, HA!. The program as intended was good,
however it cannot work the way that things are going now. I am 48
and intend to retire sometime in 20xx. I am planning on my own
retirement funds, and the Digital program. If I ever see one cent
from the social security program, I will be surprised.
What is the problem with SS, well for one thing the system is built
like an upside down pyramid. Few payed very much in, in the beginning,
and they drew out several times what they payed in to the program.
Then the program got tapped as life insurance for the people who
were too poor or ignorant to insure their own life. Then we got
all the other ills, to go along with that.
CURE: YES there is a solution, but you won't like that
Go to a program like Scandanavia, or England, to mention two examples.
You pay in about 50 percent of your salary, into social security, and
they your old age, medicine and other things are provided. And in some
countries you can even go to college FREE provided You are willing to
Pay some more(a lot more) in taxes.
YOU CAN NOT HAVE YOUR CAKE, AND EAT IT AS WELL.
I plan to vote AGAINST George (where was he, and what did he know) BUSH.
Better another one term democrat than another Reagan.
Dave
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| <--(.4)
Mike, I'm sure you know that
(a) ROTC is a way to get a commission, not an education: you have
to already be at school in order to participate in ROTC.
(b) Annapolis --and West Point, Colorado Springs, and New Haven-- are
an alternative for *very* few (what's their total enrollment? Maybe
6000 people all told?)
(c) Enlistment, to my best knowledge, no longer provides access to
post-service education. If I recall the adverts correctly, the
government will only match your own savings...which are likely to be
fairly small considering the enlisted pay scales...and require an
n-year delay in entering one's career path.
=maggie
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| re .4,.5,.7, and ROTC-
Everybody's partially right. OK? You just haven't done heard the
whole story yet. Reserve Officer Training Corps programs are available
at hundreds of colleges accross the country. It is possible to
participat�e just for training, and to secure a commission after
graduation. Next to no financial benefits, as per Maggie.
It is also possible to apply for a scholarship, of which the AF
offers 1000 per year (so 4000 ongoing at a time). Don't know the
numbers for Army or Navy. I applied for a scholarship when I was
a High School senior, at the same time I applied to colleges. If
I hadn't gotten the scholarship, I certainly wouldn't have attended
the (good) school I did. So Mike is right, too.
Our new (GO IRISH) noter Rachel just completed such a program at
Notre Dame, if I'm not mistaken.
DougO
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I applied for a ROTC scholarship during my sr yr in HS. I applied
to all 4 services. I also applied to Annapolis and to the Coast
Guard Academy. I was accepted academically to both service academies
and then medically disqualified (20-35 vision in my left eye,
uncorrectable) I ended up receiving the AF scholarship after visiting
ND and meeting the Col in charge of the AF program out there. He
was a great guy and he obviously liked me a lot because he pushed
a waiver through HQ that I still use today.
I began my academic career as an Engineer. 3 Ds later at the
end of my freshman year I decided that I'd better switch. I had
pretty much decided that Mum and Dad couldn't afford ND especially
because my twin sisters would be freshmen when I was a sophomore
and Michele would be going to a small Catholic school in Maine.
Well, Dad spent hours on financial aid, my parents took out a home
equity loan in addition to the mortgage that was not paid off and
they paid for my sophomore year at ND and Margo's freshman year
at UMASS and Mic's freshman year at St Joe's. Over the summer,
and no one is quite sure how, I was awarded a Cat III (Non-tech)
scholarship. I was one of 16 in the nation to get a non-tech
scholarship and I can tell you, it wasn't because of my GPA which
had been killed by my freshman year. It was a good thing that I
got it because I had been having tremendous guilt feelings about
having my parents pay. Margo had gotten into Stonehill but they
didn't offer her enough aid so she was the one who went to the less
expensive public school allowing Mic and I to go to the schools
that we REALLY wanted to attend.
While I was at school, I received about $11,000 in GSLs which
allowed me to pay for part of my sophomore year and room and board
(which ROTC doesn't cover) during my other 3 years. I start paying
them back in November and am perfectly willing to do so.
My position about aid to students.....every student in this
country should have available to him/her enough money so that he/she
can go to whatever school he/she can get into. They should have
to pay it back with interest, but not over the rest of their life.
I'll pay back my loans and then for the rest of my life I'll donate
to the general scholarship fund at ND so that students, who otherwise
wouldn't be able to afford it, can attend ND. College was the greatest
experience of my life so far. The only reason that I was able to
go is that my parents worked 2 or 3 jobs each and have mortgaged
themselves for at least the next 20-25 so that I could go. Dad
says that if I want to go to grad school I have to pay for it
myself :-).
I worked to get through college and I'll spend the next 4 years
in the AF and paying off loans to continue to pay for it. I was
willing to put myself into debt and I was willing to sign away 4
years of my life. Then again, I had fun during college...I only
had a job for 1 semester and I never had to work in the dining halls.
I have tremendous respect for those people who "work their way through
college". However I feel that should only be one option. ROTC
is another. There should be a third like ROTC but with the student
signing away his/her life to the Peace Corps or something. But
above and beyond everything else, the funding should be available.
A country can only be as good as her people and her people can only
be as good as the education that they earn for themselves.
This is rather long-winded and not very organised. The point
is that *I* paid for my education and will be paying for it for
the next 4-8 years. But the means were available.....and they need
to be available for all of the students who want to attend college
in the future.
GO IRISH!
Rachel
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