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Conference vmszoo::rc

Title:Welcome To The Radio Control Conference
Notice:dir's in 11, who's who in 4, sales in 6, auctions 19
Moderator:VMSSG::FRIEDRICHS
Created:Tue Jan 13 1987
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1706
Total number of notes:27193

46.0. "fast charging" by --UnknownUser-- () Wed Feb 11 1987 11:15

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46.3charge rates and charge times and limitsKANE::ABRAMSWed Feb 11 1987 16:0337
    
    
    The typical fast charger will charge a 1200mah 7.2v battery in 15
    minutes using a 4.5-4.8amp charge rate.  If you charge at lower
    rate for example 1.75 amps it will only take you approximately 41
    minutes to completely charge the battery.  To figure out the required
    time is to change amphours to ampminutes which for this battery
    is 72 ampminutes and divide the charge rate into amp minutes to
    figure the required charge time.
    
    example
    
    	72 amp minutes/ 4.8 amps charge rate = 15 min charge time
    
        72 amp minutes/ 1.75 amps charge rate = 41.1 min charge time
    
    Also when charging batteries it is best to monitor the battery with
    a digital volt meter and one you notice that the battery has reached
    a peak voltage and starts to drop by .01 - .03 volts means that
    the battery is completely charged and you are starting to over charge
    or the next best thing is if the battery is starting to get warm
    also means that the battery has reached it peak and is starting
    to overcharge.  When you can it is also better to trickle charge
    your batteries because a fast charger will tend to shorten the battery
    life.
    
    One other caution is that if you let a battery sit the cells will
    tend to discharge and they will all be at different levels.  The
    way you bring them up to the same level with out harming the cells
    is to trickle charge them overnite, therefore, at the slow rate
    it will not harm the cell that might be overcharging.  If your are
    going to store your cell or not use them for any extended peroid
    of time it is best to store them in an uncharge state (they sell
    discharging resistors for this).
    
    			george
    
46.4tutorial on peak charging (error in point #1)LEDS::COHENFri Aug 26 1988 12:42104
>    of events happens.  The pack starts to get hot, then hotter, then
>    even hotter.  Sooner or later the heatshrink fractures.  This can
>    result in the metal case of one cell touching the metal case of
>    the other, a dead short resulting in more heat, much much more heat.
>    At this point the pack will probably explode, rather like a hand
>    grenade.  Not a good idea, particularly in the confines of your
>    car trunk!

    Not exactly true.  the metal case of the NiCad cell is the
    negative electrode (commonly refered to as a Cathode)  If you
    connect negative to negative, NOTHING will happen, unless there is
    a short someplace else in the pack.  The real reason you want to
    discontinue charging relates to the way NiCads work.  As the cell
    is charged, gas is produced in the cell.  The cell of common fast
    charge NiCads is designed to accomodate some amount of internal
    pressure as a result of the gases created during the charging
    process.  When really overcharged, a cell could well Explode, so
    manufacturers (always wary of the potential for a liability suit)
    manufacture the cells so they won't blow up.  To do this, all
    NiCads are produced containing a vent in the cell which allows
    excess pressure to escape when the cell is overcharged.  When this
    vent is forced open, some of the chemicals neccessary for the
    proper operation of the cell can escape as both gas and liquid.
    When this happens, your cell loses efficiency, if enough escapes,
    the cell stops functioning altogether. 
    
>    WAys of detecting when to shut off the fast charging vary.  Some
>    chargers detect a "peak" voltage, but SCRs peak lower than SCs and
>    after peaking the voltage goes down.  In the UK there is a charger
>    that detects this voltage change turn about (Schumacher Peak Charger).
>    Another method is a timer to time limit the charge.  Probably the
>    safest method is a temperature detecting charger, as heat is the
>    danger that we are trying to avoid.  The problem is that your cells
>    have to be cold before you start, OK if you have enough good packs
>    for a meeting, but a problem if you don't.

    There are three common type of chargers.  Timed, Delta-Peak, and
    thermal.  Timed chargers are the types with a current limiting
    resistor and a simple mechanical or digital timer, which cuts the
    charge off, or switches to a trickle charge, after a specific
    amount of time, the charger current is usually calibrated so that
    given a discharged cell of specific rate (typically 1200MaH), you
    will end up with 80 percent or so of a full charge after 15
    minutes.  Delta-Peak chargers rely upon a characteristic that
    NiCads exhibit when charged, this being that the voltage across
    the cell will increase under charge, until the cell is fully
    charged.  After this point the cell internal resisitance rises
    quickly (as does the temperature of the cell) and the voltage
    across the cell starts to drop.  The "Peak" voltage is detected by
    a sample and hold circuit, or a differentiator, that "sees" the
    drop in voltage after the peak and shuts off the charge, resulting
    in a battery that is nearly 100 percent charged.  Thermal cut-off
    chargers rely upon the same characteristic as Delta-peak chargers,
    only they look for the temperature rise associated with full
    charge, instead of the voltage drop.  They monitor cell temperature
    through the use of a thermistor placed in contact with the pack.
    The problems with thermal detecting chargers are these :  The pack
    must be cool before you can charge it and the pack MUST be in contact
    with the detector.  I think that delta-peak chargers are the best
    choice, they give the most consistant charge, and you never have
    to question whether or not your cell is in good contact with the
    detector. 

    
>    Personally we use 4 peak voltage detecting chargers, and one voltage
>    turnaround detecting charger to top the cells up.  We always fully
>    discharge cells after use and store them with a shunt across the
>    terminals.

    I believe that NiCads should be stored with a slight charge, This
    is the way manufacturers ship them.  "Cold" dead NiCads may
    develop internal shorts that must be "burnt" out with a short,
    high voltage pulse, before the cell will operate properly again. 
        
>    As a footnote there is a way of giving your cells a "kick" if they
>    are a little tired.  Put them in the frezer for 24 hours (the colder
>    the better) then pump them with power till they get to 60 centigrade
>    then discharge a quickly as possible, auto headlamp bulbs are the
>    cheapest.  If you graph the voltage drop into a 1 ohm resistor before
>    and after you will find as much as .2V improvement during the first
>    few minutes.  Do take care during the pumping phase as at 4 amps
>    they pass quickly through 60!

    NiCads cells develop a "Memory" when used.  If you constantly
    charge a cell to full charge, and then discharge it only 50%,
    after a while the cell behaves as if it only has 50% of its rated
    capacity.  "Erasing" this memory is as simple as fully charging the
    cell, and then discharging it fully, once or twice.  The point at
    which a NiCad is considered discharged is when it is only
    producing 1 volt (it nominally produces 1.2 volts).  A more
    significant problem with NiCad packs involves the fact that all
    cells are not created equal.  This means that some of the cells
    discharge, and also charge, at different rates than others in the
    pack.  After a while, the inequality of an individual cells gets
    to the point where some cells interfere with the operation of
    others (for instance, if one cell is 50% discharged while the
    others are 75%, when charging, the 50% cell will "fool" the
    charger into thinking the pack is charged, when really only the
    one 50% cell is charged. The other cells in the pack will still
    only be 75% of full charge).  Fixing this problem is called
    "Equalizing" the pack, and is simple as trickle charging the
    discharged pack until it is fully charged.  Most serious NiCad
    users (for cars, or in my case planes) Equalize their packs once
    every 5 or 6 charges.
46.5not correct, cell cases must NOT be in contactSNDCSL::SMITHCP/M Lives!Fri Aug 26 1988 15:5340
    Hmm, now I know why I like Gates Cyclon cells so much, you don't
    have any of these problems....
    
>        Not exactly true.  the metal case of the NiCad cell is the
>    negative electrode (commonly refered to as a Cathode)  If you
>    connect negative to negative, NOTHING will happen, unless there is
>    a short someplace else in the pack.  The real reason you want to

    Not exactly true.... :+}  The metal case of the first NiCad cell
    is at (let's call it) 0 volts, but (in a 7.2 volt pack) the metal
    case of the last cell in the pack is at 6.0 volts.  Shorting these
    metal cases together results in a shorting out of all the cells
    between, which causes lots of warmth....
    
>>    We always fully
>>    discharge cells after use and store them with a shunt across the
>>    terminals.
>
>    I believe that NiCads should be stored with a slight charge, This
>    is the way manufacturers ship them.  "Cold" dead NiCads may
>    develop internal shorts that must be "burnt" out with a short,
>    high voltage pulse, before the cell will operate properly again. 
  
    NiCads stored with shorts across the terminals will not only attempt
    to reverse charge any unequally charged cells, but will also develop
    internal shorts.  While these internal shorts can be blown away
    with high current pulses, the lifetime of the battery is going to
    be shortened, perhaps drastically...
    
    This is why I avoid NiCads like the plague, you can't store them
    charged, you can't store them discharged, you can't charge them
    fast, you can't overcharge or undercharge them, you can't read the
    state of charge with a voltmeter, you can't avoid memory effects....
    
    Does anyone have a car with a 6-cell pack that would be willing
    to try a Gates Cyclon Monobloc battery (6 volts, 2500 mAh) for a
    comparison?  I've got a spare from Tycho's battery change....
    
    Willie