Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    
      Gus,
    
      it sounds as if there is a great possibility that you probably hit
    the deer in the brisket, that would probably explain the grey hair and
    most of the time there will be bright red blood from that type of hit.
    
      From what you wrote I would guess that the deer will be fine,
    although a bit wiser(((8*
    
                                                     Lee
    

    
    Gus,
    
             I'll agree with Lee also. 
    
    Sorry I couldn't stay for your offer of a drink and sitting down to "BS"
    after dropping the photo album off friday night. After the seasons over 
    maybe we get together.
    
                                                         Guy

    This is such a small world.  I called my taxidermist last night to
    discuss the mount.  I shot my deer in middle Georgia.  The trophy land
    is in southern Georgia.  There are literally hundreds of taxidermists
    in Georgia.  Jamie, my taxidermist, told me of a 10 pointer that he got
    to mount.  The deer came from quitman county, and the hunter was David
    Yancy.
    
    I called up Earl, and asked him if we had a David Yancy in the club.  
    Sure enough did.  Bottom line, 600,000 deer hunters in Georgia.
    Hundreds of taxidermists.  Same taxidermist, same hunting club, only
    I got my deer in middle Georgia, and he got his in southern Georgia.
    This just freaked me out, and had to share it.
    
    Good hunting.
    
    Bob
    

    Lee, Guy,

           The brisket meaning the most forward part of the chest??? My gun
    hunting experience is limited as far as seeing hit deer so for future
    reference can you give me an idea of what to look for when a deer is hit 
    with a slug. If it was hit in the shoulder, would the slug destroy it and 
    knock him down or would he still run away as if he wasn't hurt? Back to  
    the brisket, so you don't think the slug is lodged in the deer?

    I believe he'll be alright also but theres always that doubt that 
    I caused more damage than I think. He was a big buck, I would guess at
    least in the 180lb class. When I jumped him and he took off, I only
    had a view of his left side, but he certainly didn't seem to be a 
    wounded deer. I'll be back out this weekend, hope I'll see him again.
    Thanks for the input. 

    Gus

    P.S. Guy, that would be great to get together and have a few beers.
    Maybe we can get a few other people to meet up with us.
                           

Bob,

got your picture last night.... Nice Deer!!!

Soon as I get the book back it'll be put in...

Fra

    So when are you going to enlighten me on what "The FRA" means?
    bob
    

      		I could be wrong, and I'm sure 'Fra' will correct me
    if I am, but I believe that used to be a Digital slang.  Like
    people say, "What's up 'bud'?" or "Okay, 'dude', catch ya later."
    But the word "Fra" was spoken a lot here at NIO quite a few years
    back.  Maybe he liked it more then everyone else.........
    
                      FWIW,
    
                         Bob

    Gus,
    
    Sorry to hear about it, but I think the other guys are right, he will
    probably be fine, at least until you pop him again this weekend!
    
    Harris, Coyote,
    Good luck down in trophyland.
    
    Fra,
    Bob is 6'5" and 285lbs, I saw a picture of his buck(nice one), but
    thought it was lying next to an old Halloween pumpkin, until I
    recognized a grin....It was Bob's head.
    
    Good Luck,
    Wess

    I got your pumpkin pie right here!  OPen wide and say aaaaah!
    
    pumpkinhead!

Bob, you hit the nail right on the head...

I used to work in NIO back in the heydays of the late 70's (78-82) to be more
precise...  I worked for a guy from Leominster by the name of Aubrey J....  If you
ever worked in NIO you know of whom I speak... ;^)  

Weeeeelll, he was the King Fra, me I was just "The Fra", a junior apprentice to 
the King himself... ;^)  Played Hockey there and all the boys got to calling me 
Fra, and it's stood the test of time.  I'm still "the fra" and still playing 
Hockey with the Salem Sting, Best team in Digital!!! any Kanata readers out there?
hehe... ;^)  Then there's the Junkyard Dogs, Salem Raiders, Stallions, etc...
Good times those days were!

Me thinks it's a very slang word for fraternity brother Or Brother... or Bud or Dude
or main man etc...

Bob, How long you been in salem?

Fra

    		Fra,
    
              I've been in this wonderful building since '79.  Guess
    I'm one of the lucky ones that's still hanging in there.  Hope to
    be here till I retire..........in only 30 years from now.
    	      Yep, I knew who Aubrey was........ he got TFSO'd.  What
    ever made you leave such a place as this?  I used to work for
    Steve Davis back when you were around.  Man, that all seems so
    long ago.  I guess cause it is!  
    
                      Bob

Bob, i'm sure that if I saw you i'd recognize you...  I used to work for Steve 
myself for a couple of months after they had their first re-org.  Then I worked for
Quality Audit, and eventually for Engineering.  

NIO was the best place I ever worked!!!  People were the nuts!

Fra

    Some of us still are!
    Bret ;^)

 After reading about Fra's nth successful kill, I think I need to find another
spot.... %-/

    I hate putting a note in this file.
    
    Arrived at deer camp on the 19th around 3:00.  Unloaded the truck and
    went out to scout.  Found a fresh scrape near my stand location from
    last year where I killed my 8 pt.  Big tracks all over the logging road
    also.  Set up my climber in same tree as last year.  Saturday am hunt:
    zero sightings, pm-jumped 3 does. Sunday am: 10 does and a tall racked
    4 pt. Mon: 6 pt. Tues:zero. Wed: Changed my stand location to a scrape
    line:2 does and 2 bucks-8 pts (young deer). Thur: 3 does. Bob was in a
    tree about 15 yds away with video camera.  Fri: zero. Hunt cut short by
    rain. Sat: 2 does.  Sat pm: moved my stand to a bottom area near beaver
    swamp. My brother-in-law and been seeing a lot of bucks over the past 3
    days.  The rut had kicked in.  Pm zero. Sun: zero. Sun pm: nice 8 pt
    crossing the road on the way home.  Thats the breaks.  Maybe next time
    I'll see a shooter.  Had a great nine days.
    
    Earl
    

    Earl,
    
    
    Don't feel bad.  I went out and hunted Mon morning and Tuesday till
    4pm.  I saw 1 doe on monday morning.  Tueday I dove into a pine thicket
    and had 5 does and a small 6point walk by about 20 yards away.  I
    started still hunting through the thicket about 10am and walked up on 2
    more does, about 25 yards away.  When I got back to the cabin the other
    hunters wanted to put on a drive.  We drove the pine thicket, not even
    seeing a deer.  About 2:30pm I headed back out and decided to hunt the
    the river bluff, no-one had hunted it yet due to it being so steep.  I
    eased over the bluff down to a bench about 75 yards down the hill.  A
    group of does were milling around about 60 yards down from me.  I had
    to hit the road about 4:00pm so I called it a day.  
    
    There were 5 people hunting the farm I was on, 1 small 8point was shot.
    The neighboring farm had about 6 guys hunting it with no-one even
    seeing a deer.  I guess I saw quite a few considering that info.  Maybe
    I'll try one more morning before season ends.
    
    Good Luck
    Wess  

    
     Well the first day of buck season in Pa was ok although I didnt shoot
    a buck I did have a chance but passed it up.
    
     I took my nephew rabbit hunting thanksgiving day, he missed 1 rabbit,
    well then he wanted to shoot the gun he is going to use for deer, so I 
    set up the target on the range and went over the whole set up of the
    gun, this being the first time shooting a high power rifle.
    
     his first shot was 1.5" low, 2nd shot right beside the 1st, the third 
    was dead center bullseye at 100 yrds. he was really happy, so he wanted
    to shoot more, I was putting the bullets in the gun 1 at a time for him 
    so I palmed a spent cartridge and slid it into the chamber and let him
    shoot at the targer again, when he squeezed the trigger and nothing
    happened he didnt even flinch, but he was wondering what happened. so I
    told him that I was just checking to see if he was flinching or not.
    
     So friday he wanted to go rabbit hunting again, so a buddy of mine and 
    justin(nephew) and I went out for 3 hours, we got 7 rabbits, had almost 
    40 out and running but holed up quick. justin got 2, I got 4, butch got
    1.
    
     Saturday and sunday I worked on a stand site for justin, sunday I was
    putting a roof on his stand and I told him he should take the buck saw
    and go down over the hill and cut a few of those trees down so he can
    see clear to the creek, well I wasnt paying attention to him for about
    an hour, when I finally got around to going down over the hill he had a
    20 foot wide path cut all the way to the creek! I said to him "all I
    wanted you to do was cut a few trees to help you see. He looked at me 
    and said hey when that buck steps out here I want a totally clear shot 
    at him! I just kinda laughed and thought well he does have a point.
    
      Well finally monday morning arrived, we met at 5:30 am, had breakfast
    and departed for our stands at 6:20, at 7:05, 3 doe's cross the field to
    my left, at 7:20 7 doe's come in behind me and walk over the hill
    towards my stepdad.
      8:00 3 doe's come up from the road cross to my left, 8:30 2 doe's
    come up from the road and cross to my left, 9:05 I hear shots to my
    right and I see a deer break over the crest of the hill in the field,
    about 150 yrds out, bone! I stand up get the gun up watching through
    the scope, ok come about 60 yards and I got a backround to shoot at and
    then I will have a shot, nope he stops stumbles and drops, darn! then
    this guy comes running up grabs the deers antlers and drags him back
    down to the fence row.
    
      9:15 I hear the old guy in the truck start to shoot, ok I stand up
    get ready ok here come the deer, bone! ok what the #@%$## the guy who
    just shot the first buck runs out 30 yards into the field and shoots 4
    times at this buck knocking it down, his buddy shows up they drag it
    down to the fence row.
    
      9:25 I hear the old guy start shooting again, look at the other 2
    characters yep there they go out into the field, pull up and start
    shooting, and by their reaction and where they were pointing their guns
    I could tell they turned the deer away from my direction, now I am
    really pissed, the one guy has already shot 2 bucks and you are only 
    allowed 1, so I opened the action on my gun and down the ladder I went 
    and by the time I got over there they were gone, and didnt even gut the 
    deer to boot!
    
     back in my stand at 9:35, 10:00 I catch movement about 100yrds below
    me, wow big deer, head down, one step stop, one step stop, man this has
    to be a buck, I watch had it in the scope could not put a antler on it 
    all I could see was body, finally it walked out of sight 10 minutes
    later, boooom, boooom, 2 minutes later the dreadfull boooooommmm,
    probably the finisher.
    
    10:15 2 deer move into the thicket below me both does, wait 1,2,3,4,5
    deer are there all flattops! oh well 11:00 I see 3 doe's go by the stand
    at about the speed of sound. then at 12:05 3 more doe's go by at a
    little slower rate of speed. at that point I decided with it snowing 
    like heck and the fact that I only got 4 hours sleep the night before
    (not my choice) and a 5 hour ride home I decided to call it quits at
    12:30.
    
       Although I didnt shoot a buck I could have been an unsafe person and
    shot one of the 2 in the field but I will not shoot at a skylined
    animal, never have and never will!, but to me I had a successfull hunt
    since I had a good stand sight, 29 deer, 26 doe, 2 buck, and 1 ufdc
    (unidentified furry deer critter).
    
       My step dad saw 32 deer all baldies, justin and his dad saw 12 deer,
    the first ones walked within 20 yards of him, then 20 minutes late 6 
    came by him about 30 yards away, he said his heart was pounding so
    hard he though they were gonna hear it, they were on the other
    side of the farm from me, I could see them from my treestand, but
    after all I can see almost our whole 129 acres from my tree stand!
    the only drawback of being on that hill is it was 27 degrees with a
    good 20 mph wind!!! minga can you say brrrrr. I finally got feeling
    back in my face late monday night!
    
      But like I told the wife it may have been cold,windy, and snowy and
    I may not of shot one but it darn sure beat being at work! my nephew is
    really looking forward to doe season in 2 weeks, I would love to see
    him get 2 deer. at 13 years  old that would really give him something 
    to talk about, and he even said something about wanting to bowhunt 
    next year, I hope so I wouldnt mind a young student to show the ropes
    of a great sport.
    
                                          Well till next time
    
                                                          Lee
    

    
    
     re: last note, mman I hate when the transfer fails, oh well here goes.
    
    
      I departed home at 4 am enroute to area 97 in hopes of finding some
    does, since my buck tag is filled I now have to shoot does, so off to
    beaver dams NY. the sky was cloudy and the weather was calling for
    rain.
    
      I arrived at my destination at 6 am, and changed into hunting atire
    and decided to walk in under cover of darkness, I walked up over the 
    hill and when I entered into the pine stand that I have a good ambush
    site set up in the trees are about 8 feet tall and fairly thick.
    
     Well it was about 6:20 (still really dark) and all of a suddden there 
    was a huge turkey just about in my face, well to say the least I almost 
    dumped a load in my pants! this bird was so close I could of touched
    it! well then the whole flock took off, I dont kknow how many were
    there but it was alot!
    
     So after I composed myself enough that I could walk I moved up another 
    100 yards to my hiding spot, settled in and began the wait for first
    light, at 7:25 it started to drizzle.
     
      at about 8:15 I see a deer materialize from the slasing to my right,
    ok here we go again, I turn bring the gun up and the only thing I see
    is the body, now take a couple steps so I can check for headgear.
     
     one step--two steps....woah look at that rack, I pull the gun down and
    settle back against the tree as he works his way back down the hill
    towards me 60-50-40-30 yrds he stops looks over at me, I am not even
    breathing as he looks at me for what seems like an eternity, my lungs
    are burning, finally he looks away and I get a breath, he then turns
    and walks back up the hill.
    
     He stops about 50 yrds away looks back then turns back around and
    walks down past me! hte only thing I can figure is he walked up behind
    me saw that I didnt have a buck tag and was just rubbing it in to me!
    
      The rack was about 2" wider & about 1" higher than the one I shot the
    first day in NY, but it was unsymetrical, there were 8 pts, I guessed
    the weight around the 200lb mark on the hoof.
    
      HE didnt have any does with him at all, oh well I did get to see a
    nice buck anyways, at about 8:45 it started to really pour rain, by 
    10:30 I was went clear through so I called it quits and headed home.
    it sure would of been nice to put that rack on the wall beside the one
    from 2 weeks ago, but like I told the wife, next year he will be even 
    bigger yet ao I can wait!
    
                                                  Lee
    
    
        

Last week I decided I needed a change of luck so I pulled out my topos and
started looking for new places to hunt. I started exploring a new area
Friday afternoon and was pleased to find lots of sign, far more than I had
ever found before. When time came to head back to the truck I decided to take
a different route out than I had taken in. While cutting thru some young
hardwoods I caught a branch in my left eye. I wasn't able to focus with both
eyes after that so I covered up the left one and headed out.

A buddy called that evening wanting to hunt yet another unexplored area the next
morning. We were out at 6am and started walking in. My vision was better but I
was still seeing double out of my left eye. During the first hour I ran into
a lot of sign. I started still hunting and before long had come up on a
buck. He saw me before I saw him. He grunted and stomped and I froze. After 
about 30 seconds of this I started to slowy turn my head towards the sound.
That was enough to send him off running, bugling the whole way. I heard about
12 bugles before he was to far to hear. Boy are those guys fast (and loud)! 
I didn't take the shot. I didn't see him for all that long and I was not 
confident in my vision or my location  that I could take a quick shot safely.

I found even more sign that was active that day. I thought surely that Sunday,
the last day of season, would finally bring my first deer. It rained
hard all day Sunday. It was just as well since the doctor had put a patch over 
the left eye, which would not have helped much in the woods (nothing like a
large white patch on your head during hunting season  9-).

A lot of good things happened this year. I heard my first buck  (they really do
sound like the grunt callers, who'd of guess'd :-). I found new places
to hunt, got to meet a lot of new hunters, and learned more about hunting
than in any four of the previous 10 seasons.

Next year for sure!

Doug.

Saturday morning, myself and 2 of my hunting buddys headed into one of our favorite
areas.  Got there at 5:30 and headed in under cover of darkness.  I headed into
a low wetland which was thick with suckerbrush, and loaded with rubs and scrapes.
I had bowhunted there a few mornings before work, but it's a pretty good haul in
to my stand, and making time for the walk out dosn't leave much time for hunting
so I shyed away from it on weekdays. Unfortunately my bowhunting weekends in MA
were non-existant due in part to VT rifle season as well as a number of other 
things which my wife finds time for me to do... ;^)  Needless to say I really 
did'nt get a chance to get out there much...  much to my dismay.  With the Quabbin
hunt on opening day, I was itching toget into this area on saturday.

I jumped 3 deer as I was headed to my stand, so I was optimistic about seeing some
deer come first light.  At 7:45 AM I heard deer crashing down the hardwoods 
headed into the thick laurel which surrounds the swamp.  As they neared the laurels
I could see movement as they were moving thru.  I stood up and waited for them to 
appear on my side of the stone wall.  Sure enough I spot movement to my left and see
a buck with a huge rack moving broadside about 80-90 yards out headed into the
brush of the swamp.  I found an opening an waited for him to enter the lane.  Boom!
The deer jumped straight up in the air and wasinto the brush in one bound. I jacked 
another round into the gun and kept my eye out for movement.  2 more deer entered 
the swamp as I was watching for the one I shot. 

a minute later I hear a shot ring out about 30 yards from where I shot the buck.
The swamp is very narrow and alot of guys head in on the other side.  I climbed 
down from my stand, and started pussy footing down to where the deer was standing
when I shot.  No sooner did I walk 15-20 yards then I hear the same guy pump out 4 
more shots.  5 minutes later I hear him screaming like a banshee, so I walked thru
the swamp and saw him and his buddy standing over a whopper of an eight pointer.
He asked me If I was the one who shot first, and said that this deer appeared 1st 
and he shot his back legs off on his first shot.  He lost sight of it momentarily, 
then picked him up and unloaded again.  Thats when he saw the other 2 deer, both 
were bigger then the one he shot, they headed out of there like there was no
tomorrow.  Congratulated him and told him good luck draggin... I would be back 
in the afternoon...

I was under the impression that he had shot the same deer I had hit.  But it turns
out he didn't.  I had to leave at 8:30 as my wife had to work.  At 10:00, my buddy
shows up and says he hit one also and needed a hand tracking.  So I got a sitter
and went back out.  After tracking his, we went into my spot as I needed a sanity
check.  The more I had thought about it the more I was certain I had possibly hit
one of the other deer.  sure enough we picked up a second blood trail.  We
followed it for possibly 2-300 yards before we came across the gut pile... ;^(

There was no other shooting that morning, so I knew no one else had finished it
off.  We met some guy who said his son and 2 of his friends had picked up a 
blood trail that morning and found a 10 pointer, so they tagged it.  Unbelievable!
Then later that night, my other buddy who hunted there all morning, phones me to
see how I did and tells me that they pulled out a nice 156 lb 8pt... I told him I 
saw it, then he goes on to tell me that the kids friend pulled out a big 10
pointer weighing in at 189...  I saw one of the kids on my way in at 11:00, and he 
said all they found was the gut pile...  so who do you believe?  After relaying 
my story and put all the peices together it was clear who took the deer.

Now, legally I know it's the possession of the guy who tags it... But ethically
who would want to tag a deer he didn't shoot?  Especially one that a hunter may 
be close to retrieving?  I find it really disgusting that there are guys out 
there who would do it.  It really pisses me off cause I can only imagine what it
would be like during bow season if there were more archers hunting...  (i.e. the
1/2 hour to 2 hour wait before taking up the track would surely cost you a deer)

And people wonder why guys start tracking too soon sometimes after a bow shot,
and lose deer because they pushed it too soon.

Dissapointed... Fra

>Now, legally I know it's the possession of the guy who tags it... But ethically
>who would want to tag a deer he didn't shoot? 

 In NH, it would be illegal to tag a deer you didn't shoot. If you find a dead 
deer in the woods, you are supposed to contact a conservation officer.

 Bummer, Fra, but don't expect too much sympathy given the state of your
freezer. :-)

     It is also illegal here in Maine to tag a deer which you did not kill.
    The rightful "owner" is that hunter who fires the shot that kills the
    deer.
    
     Bob

    Fra,
    
    Wait until they get it mounted then steal the head back!  
    
    A buddy of mine shot a huge buck in Pennsylvania about 10 years ago,
    just to have someone else tag it like yours.  He said it was the
    biggest one he had ever shot.  When he came up on it, a guy and his son 	
    were tagging it.  He asked them what and the hell they were doing when
    the older guy pointed his gun in his direction and said "Were taking
    our	deer that my son shot".  Not hearing any other shots, he told the
    man that was a great way to raise a son and let them take it.
    
    I don't see why someone would tag it either, it really sucks.
    
    Wess
    

I'm not crying in my beer over here...  It just really makes me sad to think 
that there are guys out in the woods that are that hard up to tag something.
I guess i'm pretty lucky to be hunting in VT on a farm where I don't have to 
worry bout that kind of thing happening.

great example people set for their kids huh Wess...

Fra

Ps, just for the record it's a 16 cu' chest freezer... ;^)

    
    It's a sad state when someone claims another hunters rightful deer. It
    becomes difficult when a wounded animal comes in contact with another
    hunter and that hunter downs it. What really gets me is when you shoot
    game and end up wounding it instead of making a clean kill, and once you
    start tracking the blood trail you find someone else has come across it
    and is already tracking it ahead of you.
    
                                                        Guy

    Well, they better not ever run into me, because I am not as gracious
    to give up a trophy buck to some thieving bastard.  I do believe that 
    personally, I would kick the living crap out of the thief, and tag his
    ass.
      
    
    Then I would get his plates on his vehicle and turn him into DNR.  I
    have never experienced anything like that though.  I have never seen 
    a non-member on our hunting property.  Public land... that's why I
    don't hunt public land.  It's full of dumb sh@ts.
    
    This note is kind of coarse, sorry about it.  I just can't see letting
    someone else take MY deer.  I would put up a fight.  Maybe thats bad
    ethics, maybe it's not.  Who's to say?
    
    Oh well, hope to god I never run into this situation.
    
    Bob
    

    
    
        Fra,
    
       Man I know what you feel like, I had a monster buck taken from me 
    in 1988 in NH, (for the record the 2 guys were arrested at a later
    date for numerous violations around that instance)
    
       I will have to say that it takes a yellow bellied b@st@rd to take
    someone elses deer, especially if you are on the track imediatly and
    there are no other shots fired in the area, and I agree with wess that
    is NO WAY to show a youngster how to hunt! and people wonder why they
    wanna ban it for a bad name, some of our fellow? (whatever you callem)
    are the ones that are fueling the fire of the anti's!
    
       My biggest concern with the use of shotguns is the semingly
    ineffective knockdown and shock power of a slug, I have shot 3 deer
    with a 12 gauge with breneke 2 3/4"slugs, anly one dropped where he
    stood and that was a spine shot. the deer this year ran 60-70 yrds
    after being hit with 2 slugs!  I feel that alot less of this would
    happen in the areas where shotgun hunting happens if the people were 
    useing highpower rifles, it still doesnt make it right but I believe 
    that a rifle does a much more humane death to the animal!
    
      I dont recall off hand how many deer I have shot with a rifle but I
    can honestly say that of all the deer that I have shot have either
    dropped in their tracks or within a few ~10-20 yrds  of a chest shot.
    
     And bullet placement talk about the shotgun is BS! the buck this year
    was 25 yrds when I shot the first time (faceing/quartering towards me)
    the second shot was quartering away, that slug entered at the last rib 
    and travelled up through and layed under the skin on the left front
    shouder in front of the leg(took out the liver and left lung) and he
    still ran another 35 yards before he fell over, the whole time my
    biggest fear was that someone else would get him before I got to him if
    he didnt fall right away in my sight, and I can honestly say that I
    have never worried about that when I touch the trigger on my 30-06!
    
       Well in closeing I would have to say that fra will probably feel
    the same way I do from now on if the deer doesnt fall within my sight
    there will be no wasted time to get to the deer!  
    
       As far as the confrontation goes, please be VERY CAREFULL if you
    resort to physical confrontation, if the person is that adament about
    takeing the deer you have to wonder what they will do, and remember
    they are armed also! if at all possible just get some info about them 
    and turn it into the game warden and let him settle it, you may get 
    the deer back but if you dont you dont loose anything since if you dont
    report it you will not get the deer back for sure. and one thing I had
    learned while I worked with the game commission is DO NOT TELL THEM you
    have plans of turning it in. let the warden suprise them that way he
    may catch them in a story discrepancy, and believe me its sometimes
    rather easy for them to have a youngster spill the truth.
    
                                                  Lee
    

    		I stumbled onto a dead doe in the middle of a swamp.
    Poor thing had probably been there almost a week.  Gut shot. I
    damn sure wouldn't have let it rot had I found it sooner!  I 
    figure who ever hit it either didn't think so, or didn't want
    to track it/couldn't track it into the swamp.  In either case,
    it ended up as compost.  
    		If it hadn't been hunting season, I would have called
    a warden.  But, there was nothing left to do for/with that deer.  
    The moral is, had I found it while it was still good, someone
    would have been eating vension as I certainly wouldn't have left 
    her to rot there!
    
                   Bob

I will be the first to admit that leaving the woods wasn't the best thing to do,
and rest assured it won't happen again.  However, under some circumstances, it
is recommended that you not jump on the track for up to several hours depending
on the shot placement.  Please don't tell me you have never left the woods to 
scare up a few trackers, or know people who have... I know guys who have left the 
woods only to return later with help, or just allowed enough time for the deer to
stiffen up for whatever the reason before picking up the track.  The guy who I met 
in the woods knew I was coming back to look in a few hours.  Yet he and his buddies
still dragged it out.  

On the flip side I know guys who have taken to the track to quickly and lost deer 
because they were pushed too soon.  If i'm living in my IVORY TOWER because I 
left the woods for a mere 2 hours or believe that no one should tag a deer they 
didn't shoot, THEN I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, THE VIEW AIN'T SO BAD!!!  You should visit
it some time.

I guess it's a liitle too much to expect other hunters to be ethical enough to
call a game warden instead of throwing their tag on it if they were that concerned
about it rotting away in the woods.

Back from fantasyland,  Fra

The NH abstracts state that deer found dead should left alone and a conservation
officer notified of its location.

Perhaps there are those that would not let a deer 'go to waist', but if
you found it dead you have no right to it. It becomes part of the food 
chain unless the rightful hunter finds it and drags it out.

You may not like it, but that's the rule.

It is also unlawful to leave a dead deer in the woods without notifying a 
conservation officer. It doesn't mention anything about leaving it to return
with help. No mention is made of leaving a wounded deer.

Doug.

    I have been working an area for the past four days with no luck.
    The part that really bothers me is that each morning that I go in the
    area is all tracked to hell.............scrape's,rubs,and droppings.
    They even go as far as to track up the prints that I make.( Is that
    an insult or what)
    They appear to move in there during the nite and then head down to the
    back side of a lake in the early morning.I think that a part of my
    problem is that this land has been posted NO HUNTING by some Bambi
    lovers. I have checked with the land owners, who are bird hunters
    themselves,and got their blessings to hunt all I want.
    My point is that I am the only one in this area and therefore the 
    deer arn't being pushed.So I'll just keep walking and standing
    till one of them makes a mistake.
    HOPEFULLY BY SAT.  (thats when MA. ends)
    
    Steve

    Well this is it. After traveling over 1,000 miles back and forth to
    Maine. Slated 11 full days of hunting and two half days I am still
    deerless. Tomorrow is the last day of the season and the weather fore-
    cast calls for wind blown driving rain for central Massachusetts.
    
    This is the hardest I have hunted in years and have nothing to show for
    it. Confidence is shot and I hate getting soggy especially for deer
    which have been extremely harrassed and will probably be in the
    thickets tomorrow.
    
    If I hear one more story about somebody who has never hunted before,
    borrowed equipment and stood in the woods for three hours and shot
    a beautiful buck I'm going to vomit!!!!
    
    But as the sign on my refrigerator says "Never Give UP" I will be out
    there.
    
    Wish me luck
    Bob M�

    Bob M,
    
    You know what you are doing don't you....You are just letting them
    fatten up until tomorrow!  
    
    Make sure your knife is really sharp because tomorrow you will probably
    need it. 
    
    You know what I do, when I want to kill a deer, or catch a nice
    stringer of fish...I always leave my drag rope or stringer/landing net
    at home, it fools them.
    
    It looks like you are determined and I hope you pop one, let us know.
    
    Wess

    
    re.34
    
       Bob,
             Keep your chin up! There's always the 3 day muzzleloading 
    season the week of Christmas in Mass also.
    
                                                       Good Luck,
    
                                                          Guy

    Spent this weekend hunting.  Wind was 30mph.  Not much fun.  NO deer
    seen by 6 hunters.  All I saw was turkey's.  Tom's and Jake's. 
    
    
    
    Earl, waiting on Turkey season so I can see some deer. 
    

    
    Wess and Guy thanks for the words of encouragement. Unfortunately it's
    just not my year. Woke up at 4:30 a.m. Saturday morning to rain. The
    good part was that it was not as bad as they said it would be. Had 5
    guys in our group plus ran into a couple of others we knew. Not a shot
    fired all morning.
    
    Left at 10:30 to change clothes and dry out. 1:30 back out again in a
    different spot with one other guy. Rain had stopped in the morning and
    now the wind was picking up. I don't know if a tree makes any noise
    when it falls and no one is there to hear it BUT if you are there you
    may need to change your shorts. I was slowly walking up a ridge when
    all of a sudden "CRASH". This tree fell over in the high winds that
    were starting and scared the life out of me. So now instead of looking
    for deer I'm looking up for rotten trees ready to topple over!!!!
    
    At 3:00 p.m. the snow started. By 3:30 p.m it was flying horizontally
    right in my eyes. Ouch! That hurt. I then heard a shot real close by.
    I assumed it was my buddy and started walking towards him. When we
    finally met up at nightfall he said that he thought it was me firing.
    
    We both jumped in the truck and agreed that we were both glad it was 
    over. Had a great season,was in on a drag, saw moose, deer, eagles,
    fischer cats and a multitude of other little gamey critters!!! A great
    year just nothing in the freezer. Next years venison will be even
    sweeter.
    
    Now, Where did I put those ice fishing tilts!!!!!!!!!
    
    Bob M�

Bob, sorry I missed you guys saturday morning... I was sitting in my treestand in
my raingear all nice and toasty, when I noticed I had forgotten my watch... Next
thing I knew it was 11:15 and here comes Steve looking for me...  Didn't see a 
thing, did hear 2 trees fall, it can definately be a little nerve wracking!

Went out in the afternoon to pull my treestands, didn't see a thing.  Who 
could have with the snow flying the way it was...  Keep your chin up, there's 
always muzzleloader next monday!

Fra

    Fra, glad everything was allright. It didn't occur to me until I got
    home that maybe something happened. Steve G. was in a hurry to get home
    and I knew Steve N. was going in after ya so I wasn't too worried.
    
    As far as muzzleloading goes, I don't seem to have much interest in it.
    I just don't enjoy the taste of sulfur that much. However, I'ld like
    to get together with Bill and get myself a new Bow. My Browning has
    lost its power.
    
    I din't even realise Christmas is so close until this morning. I'm in
    trouble.
    
    Bob M� 

    Reference a couple notes earlier about the ice fishing;  I know  what
    you mean.    I am cleaning  up my fishing boat and repainting the
    bottom of it so I can go trout fishing the week after Christmas.  Guess
    this would go under fishing notes.  I love it after Christmas.  Trout
    fish, and doe hunt.  I got three doe tags left, and 16 days of either
    sex hunting coming up.
    
    Bob
    

    
    You didn't hit him in the lung then.
    

    		re:42
    
    		Not to rub salt in your wounds but to HIT three deer
    and not recover one.  That's sad. Perhaps you may need to sharpen
    your shooting skills....??  Mind you, I'm thinking for the deers
    sake.  How bad where they hit anyway??
    
                    Bob
    
    Go ahead and flame if you want.....

    I'll bet you were using buckshot...

    
    >I'll bet you were using buckshot...
    
    Not in the Quabbin. I believe it is slugs only.

It's not unheard of for a deer which was hit pretty good to run for quite a
ways before expiring...  and if it's pushed and the adrenaline kicks in, you
can bet the tracking is going to be long and difficult.  My guess is that 
either it wasn't a lung hit, or what may have seemed like 2 miles was far less.
I wasn't there, so I won't pass judgement either way.

Alot of people here seem to think that when a deer gets shot it should drop 
like a stone in it's tracks, otherwise it was poor marksmanship, poor bullet 
placement, rushed shots, yahoo-ism, or a myraid of other things which the 
shooter could have avoided.

I Hate to burst peoples bubbles, but deer dropping in their tracks or within 
sight are the exception to the rule.  99% of deer shot require some tracking,
and beleive it or not, there are circumstances where a mortally wounded deer 
will show little sign of ever being hit, or will never leave a blood trail.
I got news for you, it ain't all textbook kills which make the hunter, it's the
ability to cash in on the less than perfect hits, and persistence.  Tracking
is as much a part of the hunt, more-so actually than the pulling of the trigger.

On the flip side... whats this about 3 deer???

FWIW, Fra

    Bob Harris, I was supposed to be heading down to Alpharetta for
    Christmas to visit my sister again. Unfortunately I squandered all my
    vacation time fishing and hunting up here in the cold. I know what you
    mean about the fishing. It's actually my first love (sorry hunters)!!!
    
    Next time I'm down there maybe we can hook up(get it). Better yet how
    are the job prospects down there. It sounds like my wife would never
    have to see me again with the length of the seasons you have down
    there.
    
    Bob M�

    		Re: Fra
    
                   I read that, in (3) days he saw (8) deer,
    HITTING three........recovering none.  Tough break.
    
                         Bob

    	Sounds to me like you could use a pair of glasses........

    Where is the note everyone is referring too????
    
    Jeff

    		RE:Last
    
    		It WAS reply #42 but is seems to have been deleted......
    	Can't imagine why...........
    
                      Bob

I read the original note, and think that maybe we're being a bit hard
on the original poster.  I've hunted enough to know that things like
this happen, regardless of how well prepared you are or how thoroughly
you follow up.  I'll betcha everyone either knows a story or has heard
a story about well hit deer running away and being lost.

Just from reading the replies to this, I feel we're coming across as being
pretty critical.  Maybe we ought to back off and offer the original
poster some support, and not just slam him for the way things happened.
So lighten up, guys.  Alienating a fellow hunter is not going to do
anyone any good.

Jerry

    Re: .55
    
     And when I re-read .21 over, it appears as if you never bothered to
    track the deer you shot at. It was automatically assumed that the deer
    the other hunter had blasted was the same one (of three) that you
    shot at. No mention of looking for hair/blood at the site of the shot,
    etc. The way I read it was that you headed directly for the screaming
    banshee to see what was happening.
     If it weren't for the rumors of somebody else pulling out another
    deer from the same area where there were no shots heard later in the 
    morning, would you have bothered to go back to track, some three hours
    later?
    
    Bob

RE: 42 & 51

I certainly hope that we have no animal rights activist monitoring this
topic.  This is the stuff that they thrive on.

The fact that the 8 pointer was hit and not retrieved didn't bother me 
so much - it happens. But then I read on that the guy shot two other deer 
on the run without tagging any of them, and this reflected on his hunting 
prowess and sportsmanship.  

The thing that really irks me though is the flippant attitude that I percieved
from the above replies in 42 and 51.

My .02c worth...

Mgc

    	The reason I only hunt with a Bow is because there are too many
    people out there who will shoot at anything that moves and running
    animals. Personally I'd rather stay out of the woods with people
    like this......

    Guys,
    
    I would have to agree with Jerry, enough said, the point has been made.
    Why piss each other off.  
    
    Hell I lost a buck earlier this year and didn't find him until the next
    day...after coyotes had eaten most of him.  I felt like shit about it
    and didn't put it in here because I didn't want to catch hell.  It
    happens, as most of us have seen sooner or later.
    
    Wess

Re: DEBRIS::CABRAL

I think maybe you might want to check out reply .21 again, I had every intention 
of tracking that deer, and you may be disapointed to know that I was tracking it
long before there were any "rumours"...

For the record, I did track the deer from where it was shot, on thru the swamp and
appeared where the kid was screaming over his deer.  

I stand by my previous statement, that a semi auto is not the answer to this persons
problem... 

Fra

I wanted to add my 2 cents in also. I originally started this note with my
mishap and was looking for some experienced input but got little to none. I
have been hunting 12 years or so , I lost count;') and have only gotten one
deer in that time frame, which was with a bow. I have taken shots and have
missed on several occasions with a bow and a gun. Clean misses that I made
sure of to the best of my ability. I lost two days of hunting because my time
was spent on making sure the buck I hit this year was found one way or another.
BTW he was found alive and appeared to run off like a perfectly healthy deer.
I personally feel that I should have never missed in the cases when a gun was
used but am not sure as to why. I do spend time at the range but shooting at
a live animal is considerably different than shooting at a paper target.

I started hunting with a bow encouraged by a friend. He took me out one time
and that was it he moved to Florida with his family. I had no one to show me
the ropes and was left to learn as much as I could on my own. I have only
followed three blood trails  in my life, two of which was my later found
inexperienced hunting partner and this years lost buck. You can read all the
books in the world but there is nothing like *experience*. 

I also feel that we should leave the flaming to the antis and teach and
encourage our fellow hunters. Alot of the noters in this file have alot of
experience and long hunting hours, but there are folks like me that have the
time in but not the experience required in certain cases. So lets not turn
people away from this file but encourage it's use.  

Gus
    

    
    Okay so what we have learned is:
    
    1. Know your gun. (I have a pump, one shot got my 8pt this year)
    2. Know your shooting limitations. (Don't shoot at running deer)
    3. Follow a blood trail until you are absolutely positivley
    and then some sure the animal is not dead/dying somewhere.
    Also wait awhile for the animal to stiffen up before following it.
    (My 8pt bled *very* little outside but his chest cavity was full) 
    4. Practice, practice, practice! (Try every brand of slugs till
    you find the one that works best in YOUR gun)
    5. No clear shot, dont take it.
    6. Learn to track in all weather conditions. (Do this while scouting,
    there's no blood to follow only tracks).
    7. Get a book that describes how animals react when hit, know what
    color blood indicates where a hit occured, know what color hair indicates
    where a hit occured.
    
    I'm sure there's more but I just wanted to point out some factors
    that might help in reducing the number of lost game.
    
    Walt

    Re:61
    
     First off, I totally agree that a semi auto is no answer for good
    marksmanship. This point was uncontested.
    
     I've checked out .21 several times *again* after replying earlier.
    Maybe it's me...but I still am only getting these high points:
    -at 7:45 you saw a large racked deer at about 80-90 yards, and took
     a shot at it. He jumped up and was gone in one bound, followed by
     two other deer.
    -A minute later you hear a shot ring out from the direction of the
     swamp (where the three deer took off to) This is about 30 yards from
     where the deer was that you took your shot at.
    -You climbed down from your stand and started pussy footing towards
     where the deer was that you shot at.
    -By the time you walked 15-20 yards, you heard more shots.
    -5 minutes later, you hear him screaming like a banshee. (here comes
     the quote, complete with truncation..) "so I walked t_ the swamp and
     saw him and his buddy over a whopper of an 8 pointer"
    -you were under the impression that he had shot the same deer you had 
     hit.
    -you left the woods at 08:30
    -you were able to get back into the woods at 11:00. On the way in you
     spoke to a kid who found a gut pile.
    -After tracking your friend's deer, you wanted a sanity check. The more
     you thought about it, the more certain you were that you had
     "possibly" hit one of the other deer.
    -Then you found the second blood trail to the gut pile of your stolen
     deer.
    
     Sorry, but I still couldn't find anything which tells us that you
    actually observed the site at which the deer was when you shot. If you
    did, than the reply indicates that you spent 5 minutes there. other
    than an afterthought/sanity check did you mention that you were
    returning to track that deer which you admittedly presumed was the one
    the other fellow shot. I took it that the need for a sanity check was
    a result of speaking to the kid about the gut pile at 11:00. (the
    rumor) Then I saw that you say that you were going on record that you did 
    indeed track it from the point of shot to the other hunter/deer. It just all
    doesn't come together for me. I didn't like to see someone else get 
    slammed around for lack of follow up when in my (perhaps not so humble)
    opinion, there was an indication of lack of follow up on your own part.
    
     And since I'm in it this deep, and since you've dubbed me a "knight 
    in shining armour", I'll also ask this: When you took the shot, knowing
    that you had to leave the woods in 45 minutes, did it ever occur to you
    that the animal may get wounded and have to suffer until some point in
    time that you could go home, arrange for child care, then return?
    Unethical to steal a deer? Yes. Unethical to take a chance in wounding
    a deer and allowing it to suffer until you can take care of other
    business? Yes. Every time we shoot, we take the chance of not hitting
    vitals... branches, wind, etc get in the way of even the best marksman
    in the woods. basically, if you can't do the follow up then and there,
    don't take the shot. Ethics in the woods are no different in the woods
    than anywhere else. If you dropped $100 on the church steps on a
    Sunday, I would have as much hope of it being returned as your wounded
    deer.
    
     I understand the feeling towards dissention in the ranks of hunters
    giving anti's fuel. I also hope that we can present the aspect that
    hunters are willing to police themselves and speak of ethics openly,
    rather than whisper about it amoungst ourselves.
    
     
    Bob 
    
     
    
     

    
    
       Well doe season in pa has come and gone, and a very poor 3 days to
    boot. to start off first thing monday morning roger and I were scared
    sh!tless!!!! some ahole was shooting at a deer running across the top
    of the hill behind the stand, the bullets were zinging by us, they
    sounded like a swarm of bees! then at 9 am I see a deer below the
    stand.
    
       As the deer is ready to step out into the clear I hear something
    behind us and here comes 2 guys I motion for them to stop and they walk 
    right down to the stand and the one says "WHAT?" well the deer didnt
    stick around. 
      So I started to do small drives, went around and gathered my people
    and then I put roger at the back creek and my stepdad and I went
    through the crabapples we kicked out some deer I get to the creek and
    I see several deer walking up the bank, I tried to turn them towards
    the standers but they ran towards the pines.
    
      I went up to the leantoo stand and got my nephew and told him to go
    down to the old schoolhouse and walk up the edge of the pines and set
    there and wait there till we get through, and I had roger go to the
    creek bottom below our barn in case they scoot low to escape, pat and I
    walked out to the back field and as I am standing there I look up and 
    I see this deer step out of the pines, I look through the scope and
    then it started running, when I looked at its head I was suprised to
    see a RACK! 
    
       So then we just started walking real slow towards the pines and I
    went through the swamp and crabapples and briars, then I heard some
    deer get up and start running so I stopped and then I hear PPOOOOOOMMM
    I said to pat hey that sounded like my .243, we get out to the end of 
    the pines and I told pat that I was gonna go up the hill and find
    Justin and his dad.
    
      I walked up the hill and when I stepped out of the thick brush justin
    looked up and with a big ole grin said I got one, I got one!! well I
    will have to say that I had one hell of a feeling of happiness, since I
    had taught him how to shoot and where to aim and alot of other
    coaching. he told me that he heard the deer comeing and when it came
    out of the pines "it was just hopping around" but I remembered where
    you said to aim and ya know he didnt hop anymore after I shot. for 13 
    years old he did excellent a perfect shot through the front shoulders!
    
      Well after that deer was taken care of and hung up, we put 2 more
    drives on then went out for evening stand, I saw 1 doe and 2 button
    bucks which I let go. I returned at dark and had to take my truck to 
    the back of the farm to get my step dads doe that he had gotten up in
    the slashing on the back hill. tuesday morning I kicked out a bunch of deer 
    behind the house didnt get to see them but I could hear them. at 10 am
    we all regrouped and started to put on drives, we pushed the whole farm 
    twice and couldnt get a deer on the move. so at 3 pm I said well I am
    gonna go over to the far side hill on the next farm over, I get over
    there and this whole hillside is nothing but grapevines and briars I
    figured man if I was a deer this is where I would go since NOBODY in
    their right mind would go through this crap.
      I walk up to the edge of the hill and I could barely see over so I
    thought ya know if ya take one more step the deer that are there are 
    gonna scatter but I couldnt see so I picked up my left foot moved it
    ahead and as soon as it ever so slightly touched the forest floor there
    were deer running everywhere!!! I couldnt even count them but there was
    at least 15-20 if not more! damn oh well maybe we can set them up in
    the morning for an ambush. 
      at 4:45 I get back up to the top of our back hill as I am sneaking
    out the old test hole road below a grapevine thicket, I look up and
    there is a big white flag and a$$ faceing me so I raise the gun I could
    see her back but her neck/head was behind a tree then there were 2 deer
    they turned and ran down towards where roger was supposed to be so I
    scooted out about 100 yards and started walking down the hill towards
    roger, then I hear the 220 swift go off, when I got down there he had
    shot but missed them as they were running across the field.
    
      Wednessday morning was horrible I walked all the grapevines on the
    back hill of the other farm and the slashings and grapevines on our
    farm and the crabapples behind the house and not 1 deer rousted out!
    at 3pm pat kicked out 3 deer right behind my camper in the yard! his
    dad heart shot her on the run at 80-90 yards! and this man is 85 years
    old! I wish I could shoot half as good as him.
    
      so in 3 days of hunting I saw about 40 deer, our group got 3 deer.
    there werent alot of guys out after monday, I only found 1 pile in the 
    woods and that was from my stepdads deer so they really didnt hurt them
    that bad at all, but there is strong rumors that they are gonna bring
    the season back in on saturday. 
    
    
                                                Lee
     

    RE.65
    
    20 OR 30 DEER!!!!!!!!
    
    I think I'm moving to Pennsylvania.
    
    great story
    
    jim
    

It was my second consecutive Saturday of deer hunting at Ft. Carson, 
Colorado.  I had drawn one of 25 late season buck permits, and was
looking for a good buck.  The previous Saturday, I had seen over
40 deer, only 24 of which were during legal shooting hours.  Of
those 24, 2 were bucks.  One might have been a 4 point (western count), 
but I couldn't get a good enough look to tell for sure.  The other was a 
2 point, and offered a relatively easy 100 yard shot.  I passed him
up, hoping to get something bigger.

Anyway, by 8 a.m. I was sitting on a rocky ledge overlooking a considerable
chunk of real estate.  I decided to try my hand a rattling, as bucks
were supposed to be in rut at this time.  After 10 or so minutes, I had
about decided that I wasn't much at rattling.  Then, about 250-300
yards off, I spotted a deer.  I don't really think he came to my
rattling, though, as he seemed to be more interested in feeding than
anything else.  A quick look through my binoculars showed that he
had a wide rack, wider than his ears, and that he had at least 4
points on one side.  I decided then and there that I wanted this
buck.

Everything was perfect.  I was in a rock-solid prone position, with
the cross-hairs centered just a bit above mid-rib.  I started the
trigger squeeze.


SNAP!  Not boom or bang, but snap.  I must have forget to load the
chamber.  I checked, and there was a live round in it, so I ejected
it and tried another.  SNAP all over again.  Before I was done, I
had tried every one of the 9 rounds I had with me, and some twice.
The buck never seemed concerned, but eventually wandered off behind
some trees.  The only recourse I had was to go back to my Jeep and
try some other ammunition.

When I got back to where I was parked, I tried several more rounds.
None would fire.  I decided to go home and swap rifles.  Boy, I
sure wished I had brought a backup with me.  

Two hours later I was almost back.  This time, I had my .270 and
had left my 7mm. Magnum at home.  I'll take it to a gunsmith and
have it checked out.  I think I must have a weak firing pin spring.

Anyway, I had almost drove back to where I was originally parked
when I met another hunter.  He had stopped his pickup in the road,
so I thought I'd stop and chat. He asked....



Well, check note 270.492 for the rest of this story.

Jerry

    Jerry,
    
    Sounds like what I went through before I got my flintlock figured out,
    congrats on the buck.
    
    I went over to my buddy's house Saturday morning to work on mounting
    the other 9 point that I got and found that he hadn't taken it out of
    the freezer soon enough to unthaw.  Knowing that if I went back home
    my wife would put me to work, I decided to try video-ing him with his
    bow.  We got into the woods about 7:30 and sat down, he was on the
    ground 12-15 yards below me.  After about 15 minutes I heard some deer
    running and spotted them coming right toward us.  My friend was on the
    back side of the tree, so I alerted him so he would be ready.  They 
    were on us in a few seconds with a big coyote on their heels.  It was
    the first time I had tried using his camcorder and couldn't see
    anything through the viewfinder.  The deer ran within 10-15 feet of
    my buddy, he started to draw and the string slipped off of his glove
    shooting the arrow into a tree!  Of course I couldn't say anyting due
    to having the camcorder pointing up in the trees the whole time.  All
    I got was the sound of the deer running by with a bow "twang".
    
    We sat there about 15 more minutes when I noticed an 8 pointer(young)
    jumping the fence.  I put the camera on him and followed him through
    the woods where he stopped 10-15 feet from my buddy.  Since we had both
    tagged out on bucks, we were interested only in does, so my buddy made	
    a few faces.  I started cracking up and the deer trotted off about 20
    yards stopping to look back for several minutes.  If was really cool,
    with my buddy and the deer right next to each other.
    
    
    Have fun,
    
    Wess

    On Dec. 10, 1993 I went to work on my new house (I didn't have my
    occupancy permit yet) and when I got there I had this urge to find a
    tree (I didn't have the right plumbing hooked up yet). So out back I
    went to the first tree in my back yard. There was still 5 days of bow
    season to go and I had my bow in my truck about 50 yards away. Well
    wouldn't you know what came running about 20 feet from me, an 8 pointer
    and he didn't even know I was there until he got down wind from me, but
    then everything down wind of me knew I was there. I cried for about a
    half hour. I now have a tree stand mounted on my back deck about 15
    feet up! ;^)
    						Bret