Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

                       <<< Note 427.0 by MAIL::HENSON >>>
                               -< Killer Deer? >-

    
    
	No way. They have no way of knowing which fawns are which.  The
	only stories I have heard of deer killing deer is during the rut
	when one of the bucks accidentally gets gored.  You had better 
	roll your pants up when you go back to that note, 'cause its
	GETTIN DEEP.

							Jim

    I, too have read dozens of articles and several books, and nowhere
    is there any mention of such behavior.
    
    It also runs contrary to the buck's more normal instinct, which
    is "get while the gettin's good, and then get out"

    
    
    re. .1 and .2
    
    I'm glad to see that I haven't missed something.  As I stated in
    .0, I found it hard to believe.  However, it's never too late to
    learn.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jerry

    I don't know about deer doing this. However, other animals do this:
    it's been documented in tigers and gorillas. Apparently, offspring
    from a different father can be determined by a new "father". I suspect
    they smell differently.
    
    steve

    one more addition: this is *very* recent information. The articles
    I read that spoke of it in tigers was less than two years old. The
    gorilla material is older.

    I've got the White-tailed Deer Ecology and Management, all 800 +
    pages on my desk that I read and use for reference. I have yet,
    in this book or any of the other 30 + book on Whitetail's ever
    run across any such comment/statement.
    
    I'd like to see a copy of the acticle mentioned, and it's source.
    
    	Red

    
    For one, I don't believe the person who said this is talking about
    Whitetail Deer.  If he is, it's quite obvious he doesn't have a clue.
    He never says "Whitetail", just deer.  So perhaps there exists a
    species that behaves in this way???
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Whitetail isn't really considered a "herd"
    animal in the traditional sense, only during winter (yarding) and perhaps 
    spring, will they tend to form a group.  As we all know dominance is set 
    up by terrirtory in this beast, not by being the leader of a group, as in 
    some wild animals, kangaroo's, apes, baboon's, etc..  Another thing the 
    time of the year the the bucks are fighting there are no fetuses to
    abort, they're fighting to breed them, and that's it.
    
    Is it possible that he is talking about a different species of "deer".
    Not in North America...I don't know much about the deer of South
    America, Africa, India, etc, but I highly doubt this behavior.
    
    
    Kevin
   

    I find that very hard to believe. Although I did read of one buck
    killing another when during the rut. The buck that had one the battle
    also had locked horns with the buck it had just killed. The winner
    then used his hooves to detatch the head from the body. A hunter
    in Wisconsin had seen this deer coming through the woods and shot
    it. When he came upon the deer he was surprised to find 2 heads.
    He ended up having it mounted that way I believe. But other than
    that I have not heard of it happening. I had always thought that
    Bucks and Does did not stay together when Does were pregnant or
    raising their young. 
    							Bret

    
    
       It's unfortionate but it happens.... I read an article about
    2 trophys that were found in N.Y. i believe. They were on a river
    bank.. One was a 14 pt. the other was a 9 pt..   What a waste..
    
    
       mmmm   If you were to see this taking place during hunting season
    what one would you shoot???   The bigger one???
    
    
            Ask yourself that....                            Jeff

re .9:
>>       mmmm   If you were to see this taking place during hunting season
>>    what one would you shoot???   The bigger one???
    
I don't guess it would really matter if they were stuck together at the 
antlers.  If they were both good deer, I'd probably take both - that'd make 
for some good campfire stories later on.  My first shot would be at the 
bigger one, though.
    
As for the topic rutting deer killing fawns, etc., that's bull.  First, no 
animal (man excluded) will do anything which will endanger the survival of 
the species, as this obviously would.  I guess one exception would be the 
lemmings that leap off the cliffs into the ocean when overpopulation becomes 
a threat, but even then it's an action to ensure the species' survival.  
Secondly, I've heard that the big cats (tigers, leapards, lion, even mountain 
lions) will kill and eat their young, which is probably why the females do a 
good job at keeping the males away from the young.  The common thread among 
all the previously mentioned critters seems to be that they are all carnivores, 
which deer (whitetail or not) aren't.

just my thoughts on it,

Scott

    I remember watching a show (nature type show) where the male gets
    into the den after fighting off the mother and kills all the young, 
    I wanna say it was bears, but I cant be sure.... I remember thinking, 
    what a shame cause it was such a long gestation period... I'm pretty 
    sure it was brown bears.
    
    Never read/watched/seen deer doing this type of thing, and don't
    believe it happens, bucks will fight with each other during the
    rut for the right to breed the does, but thats about as far as it
    goes.
       
    Fra

    A friend of mine while stationed in Germany had many opportunities
    to hunt deer. He told me in the spring they hunt for killer deer.
    These deer had antlers of a spike horn and the only ones you could
    take were the ones that had one antler broken off. The reasoning
    behind this was the deer would ram another and its single spike
    would impale and kill the other deer. 
    
    sjn

    I read an Audobon magazine article about a guy who has spent his
    life researching prairie dogs.  It was fascinating, but his biggest
    discovery was pretty disgusting.
    
    It seems that there can be heavy competition by certain mated females
    for burros (-sp?) near stronger community males.  This guy couldn't
    understand why until he compared notes with another researcher and
    discovered that competing females will go into each others' dens
    and eat several young, and bite the heads off others, sometimes
    leaving one or two remaining in a litter alive.  They proved it
    by gassing two burros (one of a murdering female immediately after
    the fact, and the other being the scene of the crime) and digging-up
    the 'dogs.  The offending female still had the body parts in her
    stomach, and the decapitated bodies and other remains were in the
    burro she had just come out of.  Pretty convincing.
    
    In any case, to my knowledge, prairie dogs are vegetarians, aren't
    they?  Least wise, the ones out here in the vast rolling prairies
    of eastern  Massachusettes are... 8^)  Kinda shoots a hole in the
    "carnivores-only" theory.
    
    But I still don't believe whitetail or mule deer do anything like
    this.
    
    <<< t >>>

    
    RE:.13>>>Prairie dogs
    
    
    	I also have wittnessed the canabalistic tendencies of the prairie
    dogs.  When I was stationed in Montana I would continually see one
    prairie dog eating from the carcus(sp) of one of his brothes that had
    become road pizza.  Thus in my unofficial oppinion I beleive that the
    prairie dogs are not exclusively vegitarians but of course meateaters
    too.  It may also be a case of possible starvation and the animals
    eating whatever they could sink their teeth in.
    
    Just my 2�
    
    Steve

    
    I was a special a few weeks ago about lions. If two males fight
    and the winner is the new male who claims the pride he will go
    and kill all of the new cubs that cannot defend themselves. This
    then triggers the females into the breeding season. She then
    taunts the new male for three months until finally she gives in
    and allows him to breed. hey figured that the male kills the cubs
    to bring the female into season because of his driving urge to mate.
    The female waits for three months to make sure that the new male
    is strong enough to fend off all rivals assuring that her new cub
    will have a better chance to live.
    
    
    Tom

	I read an article about the deer that killed the man in 
Texas last fall.  If you did not hear about it, the man was picking up trash
or cans or something along the road and was attacked and killed by the
whitetail deer.  The man had puncture wounds and hundreds on stomp marks 
on his face, chest and extremities.	
	The information I read last night stated that the authorities had 
determined that the deer had once been a 'pet' and feed by humans.

	I wonder if any type of citation could/will be issued?
	

	Jim

    I called my parents up yesterday and they had some exciting news. 
    A deer had crashed through a picture window and into their
    living room. You can imagine the surprise as my father couldn't
    have been sitting more than 6 feet away watching the TV. The 
    deer then bolted for a rear bedroom and made a quick exit by 
    smashing out another window!!  Besides the broken glass, he left
    some slightly damaged stero gear and a blood trail in his wake.
    Why this happened and the fate of the deer remain a mystery.
    When you think you've heard and seen just about everything.........
    
    Bob

    re -1
    
    Same thing happened to us when I was a teenager. Spike jumped through
    the livingroom window. About ten people sitting around in there.
    Luckily he didn't break anything but the window. My dad and an uncle
    hearded him back out the window he cam in. No blood so we assumed he
    was unhurt. We also could not figure out why it had happened or if
    there was anything wrong with the deer although the warden said he was
    probably "sick" or something like that. Ity was a real adrenlin
    starter. Happened about sundown.
    
    Harvey