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Conference vicki::boats

Title:Powerboats
Notice:Introductions 2 /Classifieds 3 / '97 Ski Season 1267
Moderator:KWLITY::SUTER
Created:Thu May 12 1988
Last Modified:Wed Jun 04 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1275
Total number of notes:18109

970.0. "Traditional Skiing v-s Toys on Air" by COMET::KLEINM () Tue Apr 28 1992 19:52

    If you have read your latest and greatest Waterski Mag. there is an
    in-depth article that deals with the views of where competition water
    skiing is going today,on t.v. and around the world.
    
    Some feel that we need to make water skiing look as attractive as 
    possible to pull in the big bucks  on prime time t.v.. Whether that
    means we have to drop the women's jump event on the pro tour and
    replace it with a jet ski pulling a wake boarder or not. Personally
    I feel that alone is a tragedy,especially with Dena and possibly
    Camille coming back.
    
    A.W.S.A. is the purist's group. I stand behind what they beleive to
    be true competition water skiing and what it should continue to be,
    and let the t.v. ratings fall where they may. 
    
    Crowded water ways,regulations,inflated costs across the board for
    water skiing products,I feel is partially related to the explosion
    of this sport across the nation and the manufacturer's need or want
    to advertise to the maximum to get their share of the goodies. 
    Correct Craft is a very conservative company who mainly does their
    advertising and promotions at the grass roots level,and they are doing
    ok,are'nt they? Correct Craft does the Masters(which will be aired
    on ESPN) and the U.S. Open. Both are very prestigious events.
    
    The Bud tour,it is a circus. Maybe I am not being very social,but
    the Bud tour is turning traditional skiing which some of us work very
    hard to compete in and maintain . It is losing some of it's glamor
    and appeal. Just yesterday a kid came up to me and asked me if
    I rode those wake board thing a ma jigs? I told him that I did,"Just
    check out this scar on my forehead dude!" But,I told him that
    traditional 3 event skiing (novice jumping) was the sport that I 
    was most dedicated to. He said "What's that, oh,that boring stuff."
    
    Why is traditional skiing perceived as being so boring and how can
    t.v. change that so we do not lose the events that brought water
    skiing to it's glory to a water weiner behind a jetski?
    
    CrasH 
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
970.1Do your own thing, but leave Budweiser and TV out!PROXY::HARTWed Apr 29 1992 13:2041
    Matt:
    
    I have been an alpine skier and water skier for a long time.  Typically,
    when a new toy came along, people would buy it, try it, and keep it
    around for a diversion.  Skiing was always the king however.  I see a
    whole new happening on the water both when it is frozen and after it
    thaws and runs down into your favorite lake.  There is a whole new
    culture for whom skiing is boring, bith on the slopes and in the water.
    These folks were raised on skateboards and now they want to hit the
    slopes and the lake on skateboards without wheels because that is what
    they know best.  It is a generational thing, there are those who will
    never ski because it doesn't belong to their generation, they can't
    relate and don't want to.  To them, skiing is passe, old hat, boring.
    What can we tell them?  I don't know, this is a new phenomena to me,
    to each his own.  Let's face it, we like what we were brought up with 
    and what is familiar to us.  I'm not about to give up skiing but lets 
    face reality, it can be boring to some.  Sure skiing is fun and the course
    demands a lot but one can only do so much before one is either exhausted 
    or bored.  Other water toys help, but once again, how long does it take 
    to become bored and tired?  In another note you alluded to wind surfing.  
    I first learned to ski over 25 years ago and still enjoy it.  On wind
    less days or early in the morning when the lake is dead calm, you can't
    beat it IMO.   When the wind picks up however, I would much rather be 
    windsurfing(or learning as I am a novice).  I took up windsurfing because 
    everyone who I met who was both an alpine skier and windsurfer told me 
    that windsurfing was more exciting than alpine skiing which IMO is more 
    exciting than waterskiing due to the vast differences in terrain one is 
    likely to encounter as well as the aspect of exploration that goes along 
    with skiing all over a huge mountain.  Both alpine skiing and windsurfing 
    offer the challenge of competition with programs that are geared to the 
    individual non professional so if you like to race, it's available.  Even 
    though I am a novice at windsurfing, I have already found thrills that 
    just don't exist at the same level of waterskiing, IMO.  Besides, you 
    don't need an expensive boat that will someday go the way of the dinosaur 
    and you can do it yourself without a spotter if you have no one to play 
    with.  I believe that if you tried windsurfing, you wouldn't have as much
    time to devote to waterskiing.  IMO, there is nothing on the water quite 
    like it, it's the ultimate challenge.  I know, it's sailing, it's free
    sailing, it's the ultimate sailing experience.  It's unbelievable!  Try it.
    
    Don
970.2Our image as a REAL sport.COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Wed Apr 29 1992 19:2622
    Don,
    
    I am not at all against some of the other facets of the water sort.
    I feel that some of these events complement 3 event,a prime example
    is hyper-slalom. Running the course on a wake board has helped many
    folks when they get back out there on the ski. It more less teaches
    you to be patient when rounding the buoys,it also is a great release
    when you and your stick are not getting along with the buoys. 
    
    What I am upset about is the fact that these complementary,newly 
    introduced events are taking time away from the events that got
    them there in the first place.  If you think about the Deena Mapple's
    who have devoted their life to 3 event traditional skiing,losing an
    event to a born again surfer on a wakeboard behind a jet ski,I would
    be quite upset. If this trend continues,what event will be dropped
    so that a water weinie rider can get some prime time T.V. coverage
    and is that what we want the public to think real water skiing is?
    
    If that is what it takes to get water skiing the big time exposure,
    do we want it? 
    
    crash
970.3the course is addictiveBAJA::THORSTEDIn search of smooth water...Wed Apr 29 1992 20:277
I think the biggest problem is that most water skiers never get the chance to 
run the slalom course on glass water.  If they did, I don't think there would 
be a problem with covering 3 event skiing on TV.  People want to see the pro's
do the same thing they have tried so they can say, "Hey, I can do that" 
( somewhat :-) ).

/wayne
970.4It's the addiction,challenge they miss COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Wed Apr 29 1992 21:3213
    Very true indeed Wayne. Those who do not get to run a course
    don't/can't appreciate the skill involved. Many a Joe pro Weekend
    warrior think they are hot until ya yank em through the course.
    It is truely a humiliater.
    
    Another thing is that tricks does not get enough exposure,in the mags
    or on T.v.
    
    It's the challenge,the skill,the dedication of 3 event traditional
    skiing that I don't want to  see lose signifigance to the water weinie
    and/or the wakeboard and kneeboard for that matter.
    
    Crash
970.5Water ski mag ????? barely!COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Wed May 20 1992 02:4022
    Again,turn to your reader's letters section of the newest issue of 
    Wski Mag. (the one that is only concerned about their advertising
    budget no matter what they have to print)
    
    There is a well written letter about a fella's disapointment in
    the direction water skiing is going and that if it doesn't change,
    we may all be lost forever. There were other comments written about
    how the mag has gone to the dogs. 
    
    I got to give em credit for a good trick article with Cory Pickos,
    and a decent slalom article with Hazelwood. The one-pagers that
    Andy writes is always first read and studied in my house. 
    
    But,what the hell are jetskis doing in a water skiing mag??
    Don't they have their own mag? 
    
    I guess Wski mag is trying,but what do you do in such a capitalistic
    world? I don't know. I do know this much,there are better ways
    to do business than cover jet skis in a water ski mag.
    
    I went through the most recent issue last night,I probably flipped 
    through 100 pages,and read only 17 give or take. 
970.6BUFFER::WILSONWed May 20 1992 11:3012
    re .5
    
    Money talks...
    
    The people handling the advertising are sometimes told by the
    advertisers that they would really appreciate an article done on their
    product.  They then call the editors and explain where their bread
    gets buttered.
    
    The only way to avoid the editorial prostitution is with consumer type
    publications that accept no advertising, or owner associations where 
    the articles and writing are done by the members without pay.
970.7Just keep the nats out of it.COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Thu May 21 1992 03:2515
    Good point.
    
    And ya got to look at it this way too........ Thanks to all the 
    recreational skiers out there who are purchasing all that equip.
    so that these manufacturers have the extra money to spend on 
    research and development to design the ultimate ski like,oh,let's
    say for example,THE CONNELLY CONCEPT! :-)
    
    As long as Wski mag can keep those 17 pages out of the 100 or so 
    in their mag informative and useful to me,I'm going to quit 
    complaining. If it  was'nt for them,we would all have to read the
    Water Skier. And we all know how dry that mag can be sometimes.
    
    
    Matt
970.8The MastersCOMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Wed Jun 10 1992 01:4616
    LOOK OUT FOR THE MASTERS!
    
    The Masters should be on next week,since I did not see it on
    ESPN's schedule for this week. Jarret Lewellen (sp?) set a new
    world jump record of 208' behind a NAU @ the Masters.
    
    If I am correct,(pun intended) The Ski Nautique now holds all of
    the mens Open world records.
    
    Jarret-Jump
    Andy---slalom
    Tory---trick
    
    
    The Masters is a classic traditional event that apitamizes
    real skiing competition.
970.9Epitamizes! =8*0COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Wed Jun 10 1992 01:471
    
970.10Sorry, can't help myselfLATVMS::MERSHONRic - LAT/VMS EngineeringThu Jun 11 1992 14:271
	Epitomizes.
970.11That's it.COMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Tue Jun 16 1992 19:301
    Thanks.
970.12Mission Bay Bud StopCOMET::KLEINMI got up,I fell,I was addicted!Thu Jun 18 1992 02:1147
    BUD PRO TOUR/MISSION BAY/ESPN
    
    winner women's slalom---Jennifer Leachman,2nd Tony Neville
    winner men's slalom-----Kris LaPoint!! @ 39 yrs of age!
                     2nd----Andy"greasy fingers"Mapple
    winner men's dis.jump---Sammy Duvall  198 ? I think.
    
    Sammy did'nt look too impressive,but it was real windy.
    
    Jarret broke his toe a coupla days after breaking Sammy's record
    
    so he was not skiing. His brother Kreg made an attempt for him
    
    but looked real shaky and was'nt really a threat.
    
    Mike Kjellander has a sore back,probably from that poor slalom
    
    skiing form. You can only get jerked out of the buoy after slam-dunking
    
    so many times before things start popping in your back outta place. :-(
    
    Deena is making a comeback as she qualified for the semi's but she
    
    just does'nt have that typical "Deena Extreme angle" that makes up
    
    for the way she makes her ski stand up coming out of the turn.
    
    She needs a little less fin depth @ the leading edge IMO.
    
    Where is the MASTERS?? Why has'nt it been on ESPN yet?
    
    Anyway, the Pro tour has been exciting to watch this year.
    
    It helps only having one tour. I still miss seeing women's jump
    
    and the tricks event.
    
    
    
    
    
    Scrap em,just round em,just do it!
    
    Matt
    
    
    
970.13Blood and Buoys,not YahoosCOMET::KLEINMWhat do you mean I missed the gates?Mon Jul 06 1992 19:5484
    copied without permission from "letters" section out of the August '92
    edition of Water ski Magazine.
    
                       OUT FOR BLOOD!
    
    
      The concern of Water ski Magazine to capture the mass boob tube
    audience is a great example of the double-edged sward killing in 
    both directions.
    
      
    Women's skiing has been chopped by two thirds,now tricks and jump
    are out! Men's events have been chopped down to glimpses of a few 
    slalom passes,and jumping has been reduced to eithor a crash or a fist
    in the air.
    
      What we do see is this:
    
      1. The commercials! Is it any wonder?
    
      2. The program into and promo shots-as to where the tour is,who is 
    there,and what we're going to see. We see derivitives of this before 
    and after every commercial break,as well as before and after the
    program.
    
      3. Talking with the announcers,their set-up commentary,and some
    stupid antics to promote something irrevelent to the contest...
    
      4. The combination of shots showing adults who've spent countless
    hours mastering the kid's water-fun-toys of kneeboards and skiboards;
    a quick shot of a barefooter's spray.  Then,we take  a tour of the 
    boat engine compartment and look down the lake to the cars on the 
    road driving by the place!
    
      5. A good deal of time is spent with interviews of the winners all
    decked out in sponsor-supplied sunglasses,skiwear and stickers. If they
    were sponsored by a pizza company,I'm sure they would be eating pizza 
    during their interviews too.
    
      6. Last but not least,the actual footage of the two semifinals and 
    two finals passes in slalom and the jumping events.
    
      No wonder the general public can stand it for only 32 seconds! The 
    TV producers are using water skiing and what they think might lead the 
    viewers to stay tuned. They want to hold the audience until they can
    show their  commercials. This is not what water skiing was,is,or ever
    will be!
    
      If you want to keep the audience,show them blood,crashes,and danger
    like you see in downhill skiing,drag racing, and other established 
    sports. The typical tv viewer can't wait to see someone wipe-out and
    roll into the crowd!  But most of us know water skiing is not like
    that.
    
      Have you ever seen the fishing shows on TV? They are'nt as excitling
    as water skiing.  But they're making big bucks hooking bass on Sat.
    afternoon.  Because they show it like it is.  They capture the real 
    excitement of reeling in the big one.
    
      We,as the ambassadors of water skiing, have an obligation to help the
    dollar oriented TV producers show some real creativity in the promotion
    of our sport.  If we turn it over to the media,they will take only a
    small chunk of the action,with a small segment of the participants,and
    try to turn on the largest viewing audience available.
    That will be the end of REAL WATER SKIING!!  They will lose me,you,and
    many more viewers because of this.
    
      If we let them take over,we might as well let them turn our sport
    into something like American Gladiators or professional wrestling.
    
                                     Frederick Weber
                                     Rexford Montana
    
    
    
    
    
      I totally agree and could'nt of said it better myself.
    
    we need to get real skiing back on TV before it becomes the
    wally yahoo show!  
    
    
    Matt
970.14BUD CHAMPIONSHIPS TO AIR ON SAT COMET::KLEINMWhat do you mean I missed the gates?Tue Aug 18 1992 23:3712
    On ESPN Saturday @ 6:00 P.M. mountain time:
    
    The Bud World Tour championships in St.Paul Minnesota.
    
    Last year it was a great tournament held at a great site.
    The battle for the #1 female slalom will be a dandy,it's been
    real close all season long.
    
    And I think that the battle for men's slalom overall winner
    is pretty close too between Andy and Wade.
    
    
970.15Big changes in Traditional skiingCOMET::KLEINMWhat do you mean I missed the gates?Wed Mar 17 1993 18:1340
    I told you so! It's in the April edition of Water Ski mag.
    Big changes are happening in the world of competitive skiing and
    it really Pi**es me off.
    
    The AWSA BOD has announced that for the Open,M1,and M2 slalom skiers
    the top speed will be raised from 36 to 38 mph to help eliminate
    the large groups of individuals from those classes in the Nationals
    
    In M3,the top speed will be raised from 34 to 36. 
    
    
    The noted that another reason was so that more non-skiers would show
    up for these tourneys to see the INCREDIBLE HIGH SPEED FALLS.
    
    The open barefooters will now be jumping over a 5 ft ramp versus
    the traditional 18 incher,and Bud will incorporate this event into
    it's schedule.
    
    
    
    Speaking of Bud,this year they will have 10 stops,women's slalom
    has been cancelled and is to be replaced with a tubing event where
    folks from the audience will compete side-by-side with the likes
    of Iron Mike Kjellander to see who can stay on the longest.
    
    Traditional tricking is gone for the open trickers,ski boards will
    be allowed in '93 and if it goes well,will be adapted into the 
    other classes as well. Toe turns are now gone replaced by "big air"
    tricks such as the Air Raley and the Tuna salad.
    
    so much for traditional skiing for the purist!
    
    April fools!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I know it is a little early for April fools jokes but I had to 
    enter it today as tomarrow is my last day here at DEC. I am 
    moving back to Iowa to get back into the family farming operation.
    It's been a blast,take care,ski hot,ski a lot!
    
    Matt
970.16Ambulance rides will be free though...GOLF::WILSONThink Spring!Thu Mar 18 1993 09:4418
re: Note 970.15  
>> The noted that another reason was so that more non-skiers would show
>> up for these tourneys to see the INCREDIBLE HIGH SPEED FALLS.
  
>> The open barefooters will now be jumping over a 5 ft ramp versus
>> the traditional 18 incher,and Bud will incorporate this event into
>> it's schedule.
   
You forgot to mention, that in the interest of increasing the severity
of the high speed falls, all participants will also be required to 
consume a rack of Bud before competing.  In order to keep costs down,
the Buds will be provided free of charge, however.    8^)

I don't know whether to offer condolences or congratulations on your 
departure from DEC. I have a feeling  it's the latter. Good luck with 
your move and in your future, Matt.  It's been real.

Rick
970.17This guy can't just leave, can he?SPARKL::JOHNHCThu Mar 18 1993 15:078
    re: .15
    
    Enjoy Lake Okoboji, Ok?
    
    Drop somebody in here a line sometime and let us all know how you like
    what little open water there is in Iowa, Ok?
    
    John H-C
970.18Hidden site in mindCOMET::KLEINMWhat do you mean I missed the gates?Thu Mar 18 1993 18:2712
    Actually,I will be training on a very,very slow river with great 
    wind protection,it'll have a jump ramp and a 6 ball course.
    The skiing there is world class!! But it  is a shorter season than
    I have enjoyed here.
    
    I am afraid that farming close to 4000 acres of corn and soybeans
    will consume a lot of my time anyhow,but I love the life,and I'll
    find the time to get wet!
    
    Ski Ya!!!!!!!
    
    Matt
970.19Des Moines River?SPARKL::JOHNHCThu Mar 18 1993 18:371
    
970.20NopeCOMET::KLEINMWhat do you mean I missed the gates?Thu Mar 18 1993 22:2914
    nope.
    
    I won't tell.
    
    actually it is the Iowa river,a section between Iowa Falls and Alden.
    
    In the spring,it does have a bothersome current,but in the summer
    and the fall,it is practically non-existant. A couple of years ago,the city
    took a dredge in and cleaned out some of the muck increasing the
    average depth from 5 ft(which was nice when setting up a permanant
    individually anchored slalom course) to a depth of 13ft.