Conference vicki::boats

    I would suggest that you may try putting this note in the
    AITG::MECHANIX_II notes file also.   I have recieved a lot
    of help on engines by reading that. 

    You don't say in your note whether it just fails to start when hot or
    has not been restarted since last hot??? I will assume just doesn't
    start.
    
    
    Check Manifold vacuum, should flutter around 10" when cranking.
    
    Check cam chain to make sure it hasn't skipped a link and is properly
    tensioned.
    
    Check compression to make sure you havn't punched a piston. If piston
    crown is perforated crankcase pressure will enter intake manifold
    through intake valve and negate manifold vacuum.
    
    Check distributor timing, referance to TDC mark on number one.
    
    Check for HOT blue spark at plug,beware of white of orange arc.
    
    Check for mis-fueling. If Diesel was somehow added the color wouldn't
    change but the engine would have a very hard time starting. Water is
    another possibility.
    
    
    Just a few of the obvious things to look at..
    
    

    A few other things to check:
    - fuel filter, maybe letting just enough gas into carb for accelerator
    pump to make it look like it's getting gas.
    - stuck float in the fuel bowl of the carb.
    - clogged jets in carb.  Try backing them out a turn and putting
    them back in a turn.  (don't lose track of where you are.)
    - pull a couple of spark plugs to see if they are fouled or flooded.
    - empty water separator in fuel line. 
    - get a water-in-gas indicator at a marine supply store and check for
    water in the tank or just drain the whole tank and put in fresh gas.
    
    Unfortunatly, I have a feeling that you are seeing a timing chain
    problem either broken (unlikely cause I believe Ford is still using
    steel chains) or stretched so its jumped a tooth and is out of time.
    If you do manage to get it running if its out of time, be ready to shut
    it off fast cause it may blow back thru the carb and start a fire.
    
    Wayne

I just got off the phone with my partner...

On Sunday (the day the boat quit) the boat started fine *MOST* of the
time.  On a few occasions, it would turn over, kick, hesitate, and then
fire up fine.  Once it did start though, it ran great.

In case this makes a difference...

>>  Skiing all day.  Boat running very well.  Shut off the motor
>>  between skiers.  Motor will not restart. 

I think the fact that it runs well *while it's running* pretty much rules
out any holes in pistons or slipped timing chains.  Since you say it has a
good spark even when it won't start, my guess is that you've got vapor lock
problems.  This is caused by gasoline in the carb or gas line boiling, and
preventing any additional fuel from being pumped until the gas cools off.
If the gas in the float bowl is boiling, it will cause the fuel to overflow
into the carb throats, flooding the motor.

Things to check:

- Fuel lines routed too close to manifolds, kinks, obstructions, etc.  Has 
  anything in the fuel delivery system been moved or replaced recently?

- Clogged or dirty fuel filter.

- Motor running too hot.  Cooling system or thermostat problems, causing fuel
  to boil.

- Fuel tank vent working properly.

- Float level set incorrectly.  This is easy to set on a Holley carb while the
  motor is running.

- Defective carb needle valve.

- Bad fuel pump.

You can start off by getting the motor good and hot, then shut it off.  Take 
the air cleaner off, and look down the carb for a few minutes to see whether
any fuel is overflowing from the bowl, flooding the motor.  If not, pour a 
small amount of gas down the carb, and try re-starting.  If it starts easily,
you've got a fuel delivery problem of some kind.
    
Rick
    
    P.S.  I just saw your most recent reply, that the boat ran better on
    Sunday.  Sunday was *quite* a bit cooler and drier than it's been
    recently - more evidence that it's somehow related to a fuel boiling
    or vapor lock problem.  
    

	I think I need to clarify something here...

	Last Sunday was the last time the boat ran, good, bad, or
	otherwise.  It didn't start when hot, and it doesn't start
	now that its cold.  

	

    I vote for taking the carb apart and giving it a good cleaning/rebuild.
    Holly's (if that is what you have) are supposedly very easy to rebuild
    with parts available at any speed shop.  I have never done a Holly so
    I cannot speak for what differences there may be between a marine and
    an auto version.  I can say that my Carter carb seemed to be alright,
    ie: gas would swirt down the carb throat when you moved the linkage
    but it would never start.  Once I had the carb rebuilt, the engine
    fired up right away without any adjustments.  If the carb is very dirty
    inside I would suspect it may be the start of an ongoing fuel tank
    problem.  Eleven years is plenty of time for that tank to develop
    problems since it sits at least half the year un-used.  Try changing
    the fuel filter first.
    Wayne

    
    
     Check the distributer points!! Sounds like the same problem with my
    
    Father-in-laws Sea Swirl V6 engine
    
    
    Tom
    

The points were the first thing to be changed and that didn't help...

but thanks anyway...

	All the info and suggestions thus far have been very informative,
but I assume that the engine still doesn't run.  I would make a couple of
suggestions:
	Does the engine turn over the same as before, or faster ?  If it is
faster this could indicate a compression problem like a slipped timing chain.
(two teeth slippage would probably show 70-90 lbs. vs the 120-150 you should 
expect)
	If compression is ok I would check spark next.  You said there was
spark, but was this by rolling the engine with the starter, or by opening and
closing the points manually with a screwdriver etc.  If you have a coil resistor
it could be open yet you would see spark by rolling the engine with the key,
but no spark with the key in the on (not start) position and manually working
the points.
	Eliminating the coil resistor, was the condenser changed along with
the points ?  When condensers go they can act very intermittent; like a fuel
pump failing, or the symptoms you describe in .0  (I lost a cond. in the stbd.
engine half way to Cuttyhunk 4 weeks ago.)
	I would suggest roll the engine, then pull the plugs.  If the plugs
come out dry then you are getting sufficient spark.  If they come out wet,
then you are not getting sufficient spark, and you have a electrical problem
or a major fuel problem like a stuck open float valve (needle and seat). 

	Rick

    Let's see - running fine all day; shut it off between skiers; now it
    won't start; Uh Oh!
    
    Partner says he's got electrons and fuel to the carb. Does he have
    
    	a. fuel out of the carb into the manifold?
    	b. strong enough spark to jump the gap on the plug?
    
    If so then you've probably got timing problems. The cam slipped or the
    distributor jumped a tooth. Neither are fun times since either requires
    you to find and correct the root of the problem. Suggest you try the
    following:
    
    	a. prime the engine with a little fuel and see if it responds at
    	   all. (I guess I have to say here that you do this at your own
           risk as FIRE and DAMAGE to your engine and boat can result from 
           this proceedure if done incorrectly!!!!!!!!!!!).
    
    	b. if the engine responds then start searching for a fuel problem.
    
    	c. if it doesn't try a compression check to see that the valves are
    	   operating correctly. (you can do this by taking out a plug and
           cranking the engine with your thumb held tightly over the plug 
    	   hole. Good (enough) compression will blow your thumb away from 
    	   the plug hole. Disconnect the coil wire so the little bugger
           doesn't start up while you try this as it could draw your thumb
           into the plug hole and do the piston mash all over it!
    
    	d. if this check passes then check the timing to see that it is on 
           spec.
    
    If none of these give you any results come on back - this is free isn't
    it? Doubtful that you PCV system would cause the sudden stoppage.
    
    Old 88
    

    I'm inclined to agree with those who have mentioned timing.
    
    There's a way to check this:
    
    Remove the No. 1 cylinder's spark plug.  Remove the dist. cap,
    
    turn over the eng. put your thumb over the plug hole, when you 
    
    feel air coming out of the cylinder, the rotor should be pointing
    
    to that cylinder.
    
    
    I tend to doubt you have a fuel problem, but thats easy to check
    
    pour a small amount of fuel into the carb, put the flame arrester
    
    BACK ON, and try to start it, if it doesn't then your problem is
    
    definitely in the electrical area.
    
    JIm.

    Dean, tell your partner that I'll trade him my 260 Cubic inch Ford
    small block (hardly used since total rebuild three years ago) for
    his non-working 351 (it should bolt right in).  
    
    Your reply 886.4 would lead me to believe that the timing chain is ok.
    If it had problems then started and "ran great" then wouldn't start
    would indicate an intermittent problem, not a serious timing problem
    but some of the replies had simple ways of checking which should be
    done.  One other thing to check for which many people miss is a frayed
    wire leading into the distibutor which would either short out or not
    make good contact when moved.
    I still think you have a dirty carb that's sticking.  Keep us posted.
    Wayne

re                      <<< Note 886.0 by AKOCOA::DHAMEL >>>
>                 -< I got gas, I got spark, I got nuthin'...
 >-

	In other notes I seem to remember you had a distributor 
problem of some sort that resulted in ~20 degrees advance at idle, 
though the boat ran fine when opened up.  I had suggested that the
centrifugal advance weights might be stuck and I thought you replied
that there had been a history of broken return springs and  ....errr,
"temporary repair" (-:   Maybe that was an off line mail conversation ? 

	Anyway, if there is any chance of a problem remaining in that 
area  (either original or "repair process induced")  its probably worth 
checking there first.

	Reg

PS	I'll probably have a timing light, feeler guages, etc., with
me at Province lake this week-end.   Yep, most probably - that stuff 
just migrates into the back of the car along with everything else (-:

    as long as we're speculating...                
    
    here's my scenerio
    
    The motor got vapor locked or developed some other problem that has
    been corrected during all the troubleshooting.  
    
    During all the unsuccessful attempts at starting the motor, the
    cylinders got "washed" with gas and now have no compression.  By washed,
    I mean, that it was flooded to the point where the oil was washed from
    the cylinder walls by gas.  The major symptom that would indicate this
    is if the motor cranks quicker than it use to.  Sometimes this is hard
    to detect, since after prolonged troubleshooting the battery is usually
    run down too.
    
    If you think this may be the case:  Remove the plugs and shoot a couple
    of squirts of oil in each cylinder.  This will restore the compression. 
    
    Or the "good ole boy" method:  Poor some oil down the carb!  I wouldnt
    do this to a boat I loved, but I've owned an old truck or two that loved
    abuse!
    
    good luck
    Matt

    RE: .0
    
    Any progres here, my curiosity is up???
    
    JIm.

Progress Report:

        I got my first look at the boat last night.  The first thing I 
    noticed when I turned it over was how fast it cranked.  First thought: 
    COMPRESSION.

        The cam shaft is driven by the timing chain from the crank shaft.
    The cam shaft drives the distributor.  The rotor turns when the
    motor cranks so I infer that the timing chain and cam shaft are intact.
    
        I pull the plug from the number one cylinder.  I put my thumb over
    the hole and crank the motor.  As expected, my thumb gets blown away
    by the force of the air as the piston rises.  So, I push a bit harder
    with my thumb and successfully manage to block the air from escaping
    as the piston does its thing.  I try this with each cylinder and every
    one behaves the same way.  All cylinders have *some* compression, just
    not very much.  At this point, I'm not happy.

        I've verified that the timing is correct so I've ruled out a slipped
    timing chain.  Therefore, I decide its either rings or valves.  Rings make
    no sense since we haven't burned a drop of oil in years.  Also, the loss
    of compression occurs in every piston.  I find it unlikely that ALL of
    the rings would go at once.  Valves make a bit more sense, but not much.
    I figure if the valves were going, we would have experienced some loss of
    power or general performance problems before the valves went south all
    together.  On the contrary, the boat was running better than it had in
    years.  And again, I don't believe ALL the valves could go at once.

        None-the-less, I close the engine cover and decide to wait until 
    tonight when I have a compression tester and can get a good idea of what 
    the actual compression is.  And, I have a beer and [try to] forget about 
    it.

        This morning I find 886.15.  This makes perfect sense.  The boat has
    a history of vapor lock problems, and after conferring with my partner,
    he verified that "a sh*tload" of gas went into the thing without it ever
    firing.  So. I'm heading home with high hopes of a few squirts of oil,
    and a motor that runs like new.  I just can't believe that we're in for
    some serious engine work.  I believe valves and rings go bad from abuse.
    This engine has seen nothing but TLC.  We're PM crazy and watch closely
    for any signs of pending trouble.  I'm no ace mechanic, but I know the
    sights and sounds of an engine thats seen better days.  And this one 
    hasn't shown any of them.

        Thats where we stand as of 2:57 PM on August 1st.  I'll post the
    results of this evenings activities tomorrow.

        Cross your fingers...

    Dean,
    
    you've stated that you can block the compression with your finger tip? 
    
    If so, and as you've stated that the cylinders all behave the same way,
    then I'd have to say that the timing chain has actually jumped a few
    teeth. I know you said that the timing was correct, but  I have to
    ignore that in my diagnosis, and go with the chain. Sorry.
     If you had the right amount of compression, your finger tip would heat
    up like hell when trying to block the cylinder during cranking. 
    
    I had a Ford 289 jump the chain just by doing a compression test when
    I was a teenager. It ran fine, I checked the compression, it never
    re-started until I replaced the chain and gear set! 
    
    Good luck Cross YOUR fingers!
    
    Mike

        Anyone want to buy a Mastercraft?


        We tried the oil-in-the-cylinders trick with no success.  

        Decided to recheck the timing.  Set the motor to TDC and pulled
    the dist. cap off.  Discovered the rotor was 180 degrees from the
    #1 piston (did I say I verified the timing was correct???).

        Plans for the weekend are to open the motor up, and check out
    the timing chain, etc.

        Anyone ever done this before?  Anyone have any clues as to why 
    this may have happened?

        Anyone want to buy a Mastercraft?

    If this is a 4 stroke engine, you don't have a problem. The piston
    comes up twice, for every time it fires. Once on the compression strole
    and once on the exhaust stroke. You were observing the exhaust stroke.
    Turn the engine over one more time to tdc on that piston and you will
    find the distributor pointing to #1.
    
    Now if this were a 2 stroke engine, like most outboards, You would
    have a problem. I don't think 2 strokes even have a timing chain.
    (Or a distributor)
    
    Bill
    
    p.s. this sounds like the same symptoms I had with my outboard a couple
    of weeks ago - I had gas, spark and compression - or so I thought.
    I pulled the carb off, cleaned everything and ...
    end of problem. I recommend you do that, If you haven't already. It's
    not hard to do, and may be all you need to do.
    
    Bill
    
    

    I have a idea or two for you to look at. I have worked on a lot of 
     fords.
    1.take off distibuter cap put timing mark on t.d.c.rock crank shaft
    untel you see roter move then back the outher way tell the roter 
    moves agane there should be no more than 3 or 4 degrees befor the 
    roter mover. this check the timeing chane slack.
    2.Some times the gear on the bottom of the distibuter becomes 
    desengage from the shaft (pin that holds gear to shaft shears)
    first a little then it will go 180 out then lock up due to the pin 
    mess between gear and shaft. making the roter turn again but it will
    be 180 out. to make shure pull no.1 plug turn moter over when you 
    feal compresion stop and by hand move piston to t.d.c.the timing
    mark should be 0 
    
    
              good luck
    
    

    
    
    1) Check for strong spark (blue). If weak replace coil.
    
    2) Check for rich condition:
    
       Pour a small amount of gas down the throat. Hold choke open. Turn 
       over the engine. Does it fire or POP? If so you have a fuel 
       delivery problem.
    
    3) Check for lean condition:
    
       Pour small amount of fuel down throat. Hold choke closed. 
       Crank for short while. Any fire?
    
    4) Checking for timing problems:
    
       Loosen the distributor, turn over the motor and slowly turn the
       in the advanced direction. Any fire? If so you have a timing
       problem.
    
    The problem is unlikely to be anything mechanical (rings/valvles).
    Look for the simple failures first. They're easy to test for and
    are the cheapest to fix. My first guess would be fuel followed by
    timing (is the distributor loose?).
    
    As always - use caution and leep you face away from the carb when
    trying to start :-)
    
    Doug.

    re .all
    
    As I looked back in your notes I see where your compadre said that
    he/she began to have starting problems. It would kick, hesitate and
    then fire off. These are usually signs of the distributor being too
    far advanced (mechanical no vacuum boost). It sounds like you probably
    have a stretched timing chain. And on that fateful restart, it jumped.
    Being exactly 180 degrees out is more than likely coincidence.
    
    At this point, not being there to observe myself, I recommend that you
    halt further efforts to fire the engine until you are completely
    certain that the distributor/cam shaft/timing chain are on spec. 
    Otherwise serious damage can result to the engine, potentially yourself
    or other standbys, or the boat.
    
    The only safe and accurate way to determine this is to do a tear down
    to the timing chain, not an easy task but do able on a 289 by anyone
    with reasonable mechanical inclination and tools. I would resist the
    temptation to follow some expedient solution like moving the
    distributor 180 to get proper timing. that in and of itself tells one
    that bad tings have or will happen. If the distributor is 180 out and
    you do reset it, you've corrected the symptom and not the cause. The
    next symptom you may observe is your pistons playing mortor rounds on
    the skier you were towing.
    
    If what you say is accurate then proceed with all deliberance to find
    the root cause - take a look at the timing chain and cam timing. Get a
    289 shop manual to be sure they are correct. The easy solutions have
    probably all gone away now.
    
    Old 88                         

Since this no start condition did not start all at once, but rather started
as a hard starting condition, I'd bet that it's not a major failure.  Just
a deterioration in some part of the ignition or fuel system.

As mentioned earlier, before you start throwing parts at it, you need to
make sure that there hasn't been a timing chain failure.  If that's ok, most 
of the other things that could prevent it from running are relatively minor
and inexpensive.

The way to tell, is to go through the same basic steps you would in doing
a distributor installation.  If at the end of those steps, the distributor 
rotor is pointing at the number one cylinder, you're probably in pretty good
shape.  As someone else mentioned, the distributor turns at HALF the speed
of the crank on a four stroke, so seeing the rotor 180 degrees out is no
big deal - number one cylinder was probably on the intake stroke rather than
the power stroke.  Here's the procedure:

1) Remove all the sparks plugs so you can turn the motor with a socket on the 
   front of the crankshaft.
2) Place your thumb in the number one spark plug hole, and slowly rotate the 
   motor in its normal direction.  Turn until you feel compression in the
   cylinder.
3) Now continue to turn the crank until the timing marks are lined up.  Note 
   that if the static timing is set at say 10 degrees, that is where you should
   be, not at TDC.  Someone else mentioned the rotor lining up at 0 degrees, 
   but that's not always the case.
4) The distributor rotor should be pointing at the number one cylinder on the
   dist cap.  If it is, chances are the timing chain is ok.
5) If you're installing the distributor from scratch, at this point install 
   the distributor with the rotor pointing at the number one cylinder on the
   cap.

If you've already turned the distributor by any significant amount or removed
it, this test won't help much.  It will work for reinstalling a distributor, 
but once the distributor's been rotated or removed there's no real easy
*external* test for the timing chain, unless you can be sure you've put the 
distributor back to its original position.

There's been lots of good info given - you need to begin troubleshooting in
a methodical manner.  Don't overlook the possibility that something you've 
already done is the source of the problem.  I've gotten a defective condenser
before, that turned a routine tuneup into a 2-3 hour troubleshooting session.
The only way I found it was to start installing the old parts.

I don't want to shoot down anyone's suggestions - but I've messed with motors 
for years and have never seen cylinders washed down so badly that there's not
enough compression to start the motor.  If the motor's in good mechanical shape
the should be plenty of compression even if the cylinders are dry.

Rick

re .18

How, why do these things happen? Simple, mechanical failure over time. 
All timing chains wear (stretch) as do all chains used to drive something 
(bicycle chains, motorcycle chains, drive chains). The reason that TC 
failures are not too evident in automobile engines is that the wear is 
slow enough that something else fails first (like rings). As a 
prophylactic measure the TC is changed at the same time repairs are 
effected on the major broken part. (For instance, Honda recommends that 
all TCs be changed at 150k during the major engine servicing taking 
place at that time.) Also TC technology has improved and the basic TC 
of today is more reliable. TC failure was far more prevalent prior to 
the late 50s. 

TC failure is more prevalent under racing conditions. (Going from zero to
as fast as possible in the shortest time possible is racing isn't it? It
is also the act of getting a skier up and going and then skiing). This
all out acceleration places significant stress on the TC and integrated
components (cam, distributor, oil and fuel pumps). The chain stretches,
bows, and slips and things get out of sync. Usually the engine just quits
but often enough serious valve and engine damage result.

Failure to use high quality lubricants can lead to early TC retirement.
However, given the stress of the performance demands you are placing
on your engine periodic examination and replacement of the TC is prudent
(IMHO). Using the best lubricants also is called for. When I was racing
seriously, I would replace the TC after 5 races or 20 engine hours which
ever came first. I'd drive the local parts shop or car dealer nuts as I
would ask to see all the TCs he had for the engine I was working on and
would check each to come up with the tightest TC. After all, at 150-170mph
who the "warm spot" wants a TC to go out to lunch.

Whether you feel going to that level of trouble is worth it is up to you.
But, right now, I again urge you to proceed with caution and check 
everything carefully before trying to "lite her up".

(Timing BELTS, mostly composites, which are becoming more prevalent today 
are far less susceptible to stretching. Usually they snap or chew up a gear
first!!! But, cog wear does cause almost as many problems as chain stretch.)

    

    I just thought of one other thing to do that would be a quick check.
    Pull a valve cover and see if you have proper valve action when turing
    the motor over. If not, proceed directly to the TC and also to a
    potential snapped cam. Yes, they do snap.
    
    I also completely agree with Rick (.24) be methodical about what you
    are doing and check each in order, twice. But be sure that you are
    confident that you don't have a TC problem before you "lite her up"
    
    >> Re .24
    
    Rick - I agree, except the doctor on site claims the patient spins
    easily when attempting to start it. Normal hydrocarbon/electron failure
    won't cause the engine to spin freely. If it were me I'd nail down the
    potential TC problem first as the damage it can do if wrong and you do
    get it lit can be fatal.
    
    Your timing check is right on as is your comment about gasoline
    "washdown". The rings would have to be so bad you'd hear nothing but
    piston slap to have that incident occur. 
    
    
    Hope the patient recovers with just a splint, but I don't know. sounds
    like intensive care time.
    

        And the winner is...




                            THE TIMING CHAIN





        After a long talk with a mechanic at Pleasurecraft, we decided
    to go ahead and open the motor up to inspect, and (eventually) replace
    the timing chain.  According to Pleasurecraft, you can expect 700
    hours out of a timing chain.  The symptoms we described were not
    uncommon for a ski boat of that age.

        So, armed with a full set of tools, a checkbook, and a Pleasurecraft/
    Ford 351 Windsor Service Manual, we set out to solve our problem.

        FRIDAY:

            Drained the oil, removed the alternator, the raw water
            supply pump, the fuel pump, various hoses, wires, pulleys,
            belts, and clamps.


        SATURDAY:

            Removed the main water pump, the crankshaft vibration damper
            (also known as the harmonic balancer), and the timing cover.
            We were relieved/excited/sorry to see the timing chain intact,
            engaged on the camshaft sprocket, and *HANGING* below the sprocket
            on the crankshaft.  It had slipped at least three or four teeth;
            the timing was WAY off.  Both sprockets were heavily worn from what
            appeared to be a long period of use with a stretched chain.

            We removed the chain, and the sprockets and began reassembly.
            The parts were all standard 351 Ford parts, and IN STOCK at our
            local auto parts store.  We were in business.

            Lining up the timing and installing the chain was an easy task.
            Cleaning all the old gaskets and sealer off the parts for re-
            installation took some time.  Replacing the timing cover was a
            little tricky with new gaskets and sealer and bolts everywhere,
            but we coaxed it into place.

            The next step was the installation of the vibration damper.  For
            anyone who has not done this, the damper fits on the crankshaft
            much like a prop fits on a drive shaft.  It has a key to insure
            proper position and to keep it from spinning on the shaft, and it
            needs to be "forced" onto the shaft.  The end of the crankshaft is
            slightly tapered, so as the damper slides further on, the "fit"
            becomes tighter.  We were advised to follow the following
            procedure:

            1.  Slide the damper on the crankshaft as far as possible by
                hand.  This should be far enough for some of the threads of
                the retaining bolt to catch in the crankshaft.

            2.  Slowly tighten the bolt, and hence force the damper back on
                the crankshaft

            In theory, this sounded fine.

            We had to use a puller to initially remove the damper so we
        anticipated a bit of a challenge putting it back on.  The damper went
        on about 3/4 of the way, when the threads on the retaining bolt let
        go (I don't believe it was designed to handle that type of stress).
        The bolt was stuck.  It wouldn't go in, and it wouldn't come out.  So
        there we sat with the damper part way on, and a Grade-8 bolt seized
        in the crankshaft.

            An executive decision was then made to use a breaker bar and back
        the bolt out of the crankshaft.  The theory being that the worst we
        could do was damage the threads in the crankshaft.  This would mean
        retapping the hole, but we didn't feel as though there were many
        alternatives (as you can imagine, this was not the high-point of the
        weekend).

            The brunt of the damage occurred to the bolt.  The threads in the
        crankshaft received only minor damage.  It was now late in the evening,
        and our spirits were not high, so we decided to close things up and
        start fresh the next day.


        SUNDAY:

            We found a new Grade-8 bolt at a local Truck Parts store (not an
        easy chore on a Sunday in New Hampshire).  We configured our own damper
        installation tool out of the puller we used to take it off.  The puller
        shaft was threaded the same as the hole in the crankshaft.  We put a
        Grade-8 nut on one end of the puller shaft, and screwed the other end
        into the crankshaft.  By slowly spinning the nut on the puller shaft,
        we forced the damper back on the crankshaft.  The new retaining bolt
        was put in place and tourqed to specs.  We were back in business.

            We were then on to replacing the main water pump, the alternator,
        the fuel pump, the raw water supply pump, the oil, and all the various
        hoses, wires, pulleys, belts, and clamps that came off on Friday.

            Then we set the timing (rotor at #1 plug with engine set at
        TDC of compression stroke).  We hooked up a garden hose to the raw
        water supply, crossed our fingers, and turned the key.  The motor
        kicked over, and started instantly.  But...

            We sat on the gunnals looking at the motor, listening to some
        very nasty valve noise.  Smiles quickly disappeared.  But after
        about two minutes, so did the valve noise.  Our theory (we did a
        lot of theorizing this weekend) was that the oil had drained out
        of the hydraulic lifters and took a few minutes to be replaced once
        the motor started back up again. (can anyone confirm this?).  One
        by one, the tapping under the valve covers disappeared until the
        motor was purring like it had never purred before (at least not in
        the four years that we have owned it).

            So, the weekend ended with four of us (my two roommates, my
        fiance' and I) sitting in the boat, in the driveway, with the motor
        idling sweetly, drinking a bottle of champagne that we put in the
        fridge to chill first thing Saturday morning for just that occasion.


      *********************************************************************
      *                                                                   *
      *   I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION TO ALL OF YOU WHO       *
      *   HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO LEND ADVICE, MAKE SUGGESTIONS, AND       *
      *   SHARE EXPERIENCES.  WITHOUT IT, THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH     *
      *   HARDER TASK.  THANKS!                                           *
      *                                                                   *
      *********************************************************************



                                    - Dean -



        P.S.  Total cost for parts (including sealer, anti-seize, bolts
              washers, new plugs, filters, etc.):


                                  $82.17

re                       <<< Note 886.27 by AKOCOA::DHAMEL >>>
>                             -< The whole story. >-

	Wow, I'm happy for you  (-:

	
	Reg

		{I guess I'm half way to a new chain and sprockets myself}

    >                  <<< Note 886.27 by AKOCOA::DHAMEL >>>
    >                         -< The whole story. >-
    
    Congratulations! 
    
    What a saga! The recommended procedure for putting the damper back is 
    really NG. You came up with a good way, another is to drive it on with 
    a round piece of wood that fits the depression on the front. The 
    compression fit of the damper and the required torque loads on the bolt 
    are too much.
    
    Did the manual caution about not damamging the damper? An out of
    balance damper will cause you fits. Did you ever try to chase a run
    away engine stand with a running engine on it? I did.
    
    Your theory on the valve lifters is correct, but only if you have
    hydraulic lifters. I would have preferred them to come back sooner.
    
    You may (IMHO) to check the chain as part of the winterizing this year
    and again at 350 hours, just to be sure.
    
    $82.17!!! You forgot to add in the champange and to charge for swear
    words uttered during the ordeal.
    
    Old 88
    

    I still think it was the carb. (some day i'll figure out how to do a
    smile face!).  Good to hear it's running again and we all know who to 
    go to when our engines need the same job done.
    BTW, make sure you change the oil right away.  It's probably one part
    oil and one part gas by now.  Maybe contributed to why it took your
    valves so long to pump back up.
    Wayne