Conference vicki::boats

    
    Joe,
    I believe you are referring to Dupont IMRON paint.  It is 
    real heavy duty stuff, and gives a nice shine.  It's ideal 
    for use on boats, and is also used on the 18 wheel big rigs
    where it sees a lot of abuse and infrequent cleanings.
    
    It is *NOT* intended for application by an amateur.  I think
    it requires special equipment for spraying, and I *know* it 
    requires a respirator (not just a dust mask) for breathing.  
    It's a 2 part paint and will catalyze in your lungs.
    
    Rick

IMRON, AWLGRIP, etc, are all two-part catalyzed linear polyurethanes. 
They are very durable and also very expensive. Some can be brushed 
(takes practice, no mistakes allowed) but results are better when they 
are sprayed. But, as mentioned, they are highly toxic (they contain
cyanides) and require special safety precautions. The toxic data sheets
for AWLGRIP are downright scary. They don't last forever (less long than
a good gelcoat) and surface preparation is both critical and
time-consuming. A good professional job was, last time I asked, about
$100 per foot of hull length. 

    I'll support what Alan has stated.
    
    I had a friend touch up some spots for me, he had mixed a batch
    up for his boat, and had some extra. If i recall its about
    $70. a quart. AS stated it is not as good as gel-coat.
    
    I did see a smaller boat done with IMRON, was a 24' open
    boat, they had brushed it on, unless you looked real close
    it was very difficult to notice any mistakes.
    
    JIm.

My '65 Correct Craft Mustang was completely re-painted with IMRON about 7 years
ago.  The shine on it is still amazing.  The only problem with IMRON (besides
the price and application issues already mentioned) is that it's hard, real
hard.  The good news is that it withstands some serious abuse and mine hasn't
cracked anywhere due to stress.  The not-so-good news (that I've discovered) is
that it doesn't seem to be very tolerant of the chemical abuse the side of the
boat below the water line endures (e.g. wet/dry/oil/gas/sun/shade).  On my boat,
the sides of the hull below the water line (but not under the boat, just the
sides) have bubbled and started to peel a little.  The rest of the hull is real
smooth, but the area along the side of the hull that's below the water line is
very rough.

I have made some rather significant modifications to the boat this year that
will require some painting, but I'm debating whether or not I'll put IMRON on
again.  I have to discuss this with my brother-in-law who's in the body shop
business.  If he can get me a good deal I'll go with IMRON again, but I'm going
to get him to find out if there's some sort of "clear coat" that I can apply
over the IMRON (or any other paint for that matter) that might help alleviate
the below-the-water-line problem.

...Roger...

Roger,
I recently went through a similar problem finding a paint to use below
the waterline on my father's boat.  It's been bottom painted, and I wanted
to remove that and paint it with a non-toxic (or "non" anti-fouling)
waterproof paint.  It needed to be something I could brush on.

From calling Interlux and Pettit I found that regular topside enamels or
topside epoxies will both blister when used below the water line.  I finally
found what I needed - it's a product made by Pettit called "Polypoxy". It's
a 2 part epoxy, and their documentation says it's specifically for below
waterline applications where an anti-fouling paint is not required.  The
resin and hardener are ordered seperately.  The hardener comes in 2 types,
for either spray or brush applications.   A quard each of resin and hardener
runs a total of about $30 and combines for � gallon of paint so the price
is reasonable.  They also make a Polypoxy 2 part undercoater which I'll be
using first.

Most marinas don't stock the stuff.  Wilderness Marine in Amherst NH was 
able to order it for me and had it in a few days.  I haven't used it yet 
but I'll let you know how it comes out.

Rick

Sounds like good stuff, Rick.  I assume the paint is white (which is what I want
anyway).  I remember my brother-in-law mentioning something he heard about at a
class he took for painting Corvettes (I guess someone asked the instructor about
boat painting since the vette is made of 'glas).  I'll have to ask him about it
again.  It was some sort of clear coat that was sprayed over the lacquer paint
(several coats, if memory serves) that was supposedly impervious to gas/oil/etc.
My guess is that it was something to help against sun fading, but it might be
something useful in marine applications.  I'll post the results when I talk to
him.

...Roger...

P.S.  If anyone is interested, I can find out the price my brother-in-law can
      get for IMRON paint.  I distinctly remember his price being *much* better
      than the Joe Blow off-the-street price.  I can't recall (or maybe I just
      want to forget) the price I paid way back when!  :-)

    
    RE: .6
    
    Yeah, I ordered the Polypoxy in white, but it's available in 
    several other colors too.  As I mentioned, most dealers don't
    carry it, but the colors are shown in the standard Pettit color
    chart which most dealers have.
    
    Rick

	Here's a place for you to drop in at Roger

	McNeil's  in Marlborough, Mass.
	on Lincoln St., a little less than a mile west of Bolton St {Rte 85}.

	Good place to pick brains  - -  sorta like Wards  (-: 

	They have mix listings for just about every auto 
manufacturer's colors back well into the 50's, maybe further, and can 
custom mix if you take in a panel.  Of course they have all the 
sanding materials, primers, glass, resin {b*nd*) and tools too.

	About 10 years ago DuPont Centron (sp ?) was around $50 a 
gallon, Imron was about $80  a gallon is enough for a full sized 
{Amuri_can} car, with a little to spare.

	Reg

    Cheap solution to Imron:
    
    Well after I researched many boatyards who claim to be Imron pros, I
    got quotes of $800 - $1350 to do a 33 foot boat, area to be painted was 
    about 1 foot around the boat (just the colored gelcoat).
    
    I tried a product called Mirror-Glaze 44, gelcoat paint restorer. After
    about 3 hours of rubbing it on I'm proud to say the chalking is almost
    invisible. I quickly applied a layer of wax to the newly shined
    surface, and plan to wax 2 more times.
    
    I'll probably apply the mirror-glaze one more time (by the way it is
    $5.99 for a 14oz bottle at Bliss) in mid summer. Hopefully this method
    of applying the mirror-glaze and waxing will gradually eliminate the 
    problem.
    
    It seems that the chalking is actually a rough layer ontop of the
    colored paint (like a layer of skin). A mild abrasive will remove it, 
    and you will also notice a layer of dirt will come with it. After some
    shoulder pressing rubbing the shine of the colored gelcoat will return.
    
    I don't expect this application of mirror-glaze to last, I am going to 
    apply again soon and will let everyone know what happened. What the
    hec, that $600 - $1350 the boatyards wanted for Imron could be my new
    inflatable tender.
    
    
    Joe D.

    Want to save a lot of time and elbow pain. Get some lysol "tub and
    tile" cleaner, spray it on hose it off does the same or better job.
    
    Say good bye to the oxidation.....
    
    JIm.
    

    There are a number of Mirror Glaze products (which this year have the
    Meguiars name added to the bottle). I used the fiberglass cleaner and
    then the boat polish (#45?) and with not too much rubbing got a major
    improvement in the appearance of my topsides, which are entering their
    7th season. The dark brown gelcoat band at the top looks great. It had
    really started to look old. In fact, the whole boat is starting to look
    new again - partly the result of some teen-aged non-voluntary labor.
    
    Bill
    

	I dropped in at McNeil's last week.  Prices havn't changed 
THAT much in 10 years - only about 15 - 20%, which isn't bad
considering the price trend on everything else (our industry
excepted).  I had forgotten how to spell  "Centauri" (gee, that still
looks wrong; anyway its DuPont's normal enamel for cars).   They now
offer 3/4 gallon packages, this probably reflects the trend toward
smaller cars. 

They have a fun poster that lists the prices of things like Cologne
and how long they last, it compares this to a gallon of paint and how
long that lasts. 

	Reg

		Gee, was wet sanding really fun ?  (-:

    	I recently have been seeing ads for a one part urethane (sp?)
    paint by Interlux. The add shows a guy standing next to a boat
    pointing to a paintbrush saying "I got these results with this".
    The boat looks like a mirror.
    	Does anyone know about these paints? Do they look as good as 
    the ad implies? Can they be sprayed as well as brushed on? Do they 
    hold up well?
    	I usually manage to collect a few dings in my gelcoat every year 
    and touch up is never perfect. My deck also takes abuse from heavy duty
    clean up after fishing. Maybe some day I'll paint it if I can be assured 
    of reasonable results. 
    Just Curious For Now,
    Paul 

    	It is called Brightsides I bought some this winter for a boat
    painting project that is still on the back burner.  With any luck the
    boat will get painted in the next 2 months and I can report the
    results.  We are spraying two part linear polyurethane on the hull,
    and using Brightsides on the rest of the hull.  This happened by design
    so we can compare paints, not to mention save a little money. 

    	I find it hard to believe that that a brushed, or rolled on paint
    job can look as good as a properly done spray job.  The key phrase is
    properly done spray job, it takes a fairly high skill level to do a
    really good spray job.  If Brightsides is 80% as nice as a good spray
    job then the reduced material cost, and lower application skill level,
    will make it a good product.  

    	The largest factor will still be the quality of the surface before
    application.  It tedious and hard to get a really high quality surface
    even on a small boat.  No miracle paint exists that will remove the dog
    work of filling, fairing, and sanding required to get a really nice
    mirror like finish on the hull.  I have over 100 hours of time invested 
    in surface preparation on the hull of a 13 dinghy and it still is not
    as perfect as I would like.  


    Forrest
    Ps.		According to the Interlux folks you can spray it, if you
    		thin it correctly.  They encourage you to roll and tip, or
    		brush it BECAUSE that is how it was designed to be applied.

    I painted my 84 chriscraft last year,with the interlux brightside by
    brush. i have had the boat since new and it was bright red when i
    bought it.the color in the gel coat only lasted five years before it
    started to fade. i tried everying on the market to bring back the color
    i would get the color back for a while but it would never last.
    the brigtside is fantastic.. (about $22.00 a quart) and i only used
    about three quarters of a quart. the stuff is amazing,its finish
    is superb. the color i used is called fire red and let me tell you
    you can see me coming down the lake.heres what i did for prep::
    first go by marine paint brushes there not cheap but well worth the
    money. use 80-100 grit sand paper and wet sand surface to take off all
    wax and caca that might be on there. then take paint thinner to surface
    to remove dust. one very important note,this suff sets up real fast so
    you have to work with it real fast but you get the nack of it after a
    while.dry time (touching) about one hour. complete time about two days.
    no it will never compare with a factory finish but you"ll be amazed at
    the results. 
    
    
                                              k....

    I used the "Brightsides" on my cockpit deck, and gunnels, i mixed
    in some of the Interlux non-skid. Its been on for 2 seasons.
    
    I don't think it was made to withstand the traffic nor some of the
    cleaning products. But it has held up very well in spite of this.
    
    Last season i used a 2 part woosley epoxy paint in the cockpit,
    after uncovering this season it looks as tho i had just done it.
    
    I'm going to give the cockpit another coat as well as the gunnels
    and the foredeck.
    
    You can add a tint to this stuff, i toned it down to an off-white,
    or eggshell color.
    
    As for the brightsides i would not hesitate to use it on the hull
    if i needed to do it.
    \
    
    JIm.

    8 years ago I had a PROFESSIONAL?? Imron job done on a navy-blue 30
    footer.  The paint has held up wonderfully with just yearly wax jobs.
    EXCEPT for the one side where they put the boat outside 2 weeks after
    painting and the sun then cold caused "gray-hair" like cracks.  I have
    tried using a fine grit polish, wet-sanding etc to remove/blend the
    hair line cracks.... But unless you are the one polishing the boat you
    can't see them.  I feel if you find the RIGHT professional it is well
    worth the money, especially if you have a dark colored boat.
    
    mimi

    Rather old topic but I guess more info never hurts..
    
    I have had an old GTO (car) restored about 8 years ago and did a metal
    flake Imron on it and it's still in great shape. More recently, I
    purchased a 2nd hand 24' FG that had been totally painted over with
    Imron about 8 years ago...somewhat of a rust color hull and white
    topsides. The finish was rather shabby and spend a day so far
    cleaning/buffing one side and the transom. It's come out quite good.
    The paint itself wasn't faded but it had enough "ground in" dirt to
    make it look like a dark brown finish. The buffing and polishing did
    rather well.
    
    I had a FG boat earlier for about 16 years. It had a light blue hull
    and I had tried everything imaginable to get the chalking out of it..no
    luck. In comparison, cleaning up the old Imron was a real pleasant
    surprise and this boat was moored every season since it was new.