Conference vicki::boats

WoodenBoat magazine has had many articles on maintaining wooden boats in 
general and wooden runabouts in particular. A subscription would be a 
good investment. The WoodenBoat school has a course in restoring Chris
Craft, Hacker, Gar Wood, etc, boats. 

I've seen magazines, but haven't heard of a school. Do I find out about the 
school through the magazine? Is it in New England?

    If you're ever in the area, in Clayton, NY (on the St.Lawrence River)
    is the Shipyard Museum.  The have some absolutely BEAUTIFUL examples
    of old wooden boats including the "Pardon Me" at 48' claimed to be
    the worlds largest runabout (built in ~194?, its 12cyl Merlin burns
    150 gal. p/hr!!).  They also do restoring and have some kind of school
    there.  VERY impressive place if you're into old boats/motors.
    
    We went a few weeks ago during the Antique Boat Show/Parade/Auction and
    our tongues are still dry from hanging out all day.
    
    Anyway, enough of my rambling, if you want the address, I can post it
    here or mail it to you tomorrow.
    
    Brian

re .2:

The WoodenBoat School is, I think, part of the WoodenBoat magazine 
business. The school is located next to the magazine's offices in, er, 
um, I forget the town, but the property overlooks the Eggemoggin Reach 
in Maine. A lovely place, and we quite enjoyed wandering around there a 
summer or two ago. The school is in a converted stable. 

    Go up and talk to Merrill Fay at Fays boatyard in Guilford NH.  THere
    is quite a collection of wooden boats from the classic runabouts to
    older Chris-Crafts and Owens type crusiers in the water there, as well
    as a number of project boats under rebuild.  (Be sure to take a peek
    behind the big blue tarp next to the woodworking shop)
    
    Talk to the owners of the boats there. They are a real friendly lot and
    will give you some insight in to the 'joys' of owning a 'classic'.
    
    Dont be put off by the appearance of the place.  Its a BOATYARD, not a
    marina, and most of the 500 or so people who keep boats there like it
    that way, including me.
    
                                                Tom URban

Re: .3

I'm from Upstate and will be fishing the St. Lawrence in the spring. Thanks for
the info.

If you get up to Meridith (?) NH, there's a place called Haywards that has a 60'
Beauty that looks like a mahogoney train with rumble seats. He is the one whom
I mentioned who sells and restores oldies.

Bill

RE: Note 741.6

>>If you get up to Meridith (?) NH, there's a place called Haywards

You may be referring to Harper's Boat Restoration.  They've got some 
beatiful boats there, I usually stop in a few times a season just to
take a look.  Last time I was there I think I saw the big yacht you're 
referring to - it's gorgeous, they claim it's one of a kind and asking
price was down to something like *only* $45K (from $90K).

Harper's is on route 3, between Meredith and Weirs Beach.

Rick

    Bill, I highly recommend that you subscribe to "Classic Boating"
    Magazine.  The address is: P.O. box 1634-D, Colton, Ca., 92324.
    The price is $20 for 1 year (6 issues).  This magazine is directed
    mostly towards wooden runabouts although they also do articles on
    wooden cabin cruisers.  I also get Wooden Boat.  They have excellent
    articles on wood repair/refinishing but they are mostly directed
    towards sailing craft.  Classic Boating has a very good classified
    ad section for boats, products, restoration shops, services, etc.
    If you send me your mail stop I'll let you borrow a couple of issues.
    
    The largest wooden boat dealer in New England that I know of is Boyd's
    Boatyard in Canton, Ct. (west of Hartford).  He always has at least 40
    boats from completely restored to total basket cases.  You can get a 
    current list of what he has by sending a S.A.S.E. to: Boyd's Boatyard,
    P.O. Box 9, Canton, Ct., 06019.  His phone number is 203-693-4811. 
    He's very interesting to talk to over the phone.  I haven't made it
    down there yet to look around.
    
    If you do get a boat, I'll gladly give you advise as you go.  I've been
    restoring my 1965 Century Resorter for 4 years now.  It made it into
    the water for two months last summer, finally, but a combination of
    building a new house and a bad tranny (see note 690) kept it out this
    summer.  This winter I'll be replacing the floor boards, carpet,
    tranny, and putting on mufflers (new law in N.H.).  I've done alot of
    searching to find original replacement items or repair shops who are
    capable of rebuilding to original specs.
    Wayne

    Reply to noter .0
    
    Finally a note on Wooden Boats !!!
    
    I have been into Wooden Boats for ages.  My father would not own
    anything else !    
    
    My fiance has restored and collected Wooden Boats since the age of 16.
    (first boat he bought and restored was a Century Resorter).
    Thru the years he has restored for himself and for other people who
    love Wooden Boats but either do not have the set up or know how.
    
    Marc has done several Centurys - (Resorter's & Corranodos).
    He presently is restoring a 1961 Century Arabian.  It's almost complete
    except for upholstery - which is tricky seeing he needs to keep the
    seat back eblems in tack.  She is a cream puff !  Even though I prefer
    varnished - for a painted boat she is classy.  Copper bottom, white 
    body, varnished transom - and the really unusual part is - she has
    upholstery on the sides of the boat.  And chrome !!  She must weigh
    a ton.
    
    My favorite boat we had, until last Fall when we sold her to Boyd's
    Boats, was "Golden Oldie" a 1941 Chris Craft Runabout, double cockpit,
    barrelback.  She was built right before the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
    We were the second owners.  This boat was 95% original.
    
    We have had a 1905 launch, which was a neat little boat.
    There are too many to mention.  Marc has kept albums on every one
    he has owned or restored.
    
    I think the fun part of owning/restoring old boats is tracking their
    histories.
    
    We recently were at the Antique boat show at Lake George, New York.
    (It was amazing to see so many replicas that would fool many. But they
    have their separtate category.)
    
    This year the boat show was a little hectic as the docks were so old
    they were falling in !  After we docked we couldn't get on the pier
    to go to shore for our registration packet !  After quick repair
    jobs boat owners were allowed on an off, but spectators were allowed
    on a few at a time.   I think next year we will go back to having it
    a Silver Bay.  
    
    We go every year as we belong to the Andoirondack chapter of the 
    Antique/Classic Boat Society.  Belonging to ADC/ACBS we have met many 
    interesting people from all over.  Yearly we receive a directory of all 
    the chapters of ACBS and members.  Listed are the owners, boats owned, and
    people's special crafts.  (Ex : Marc is listed as a restorer).
    
    I could go on and on....  If you have specific questions Bill, you can
    contact me vaxmail and I will show them to Marc.   Marc is not a Decie,
    he is a general contractor and works at a Marina.
    
    Our dream is a 1930'ish Chris Craft triple cock pit.
    
    Have you seen the Chris Craft book - it is excellent.
    
    I ditto the mag's - Wooden Boat, but more so Classic Boating.
    
    ...
    val
    ...
    val

    Val, I have a 1965 Century Resorter (15 footer) that I am currently
    restoring.  I will be doing the deck this winter but I have no idea
    how it was done as the original vinyl covering had been ripped off.
    You wouldn't happen to have a picture of a 1965 15 footer showing
    the upholstered deck?  I'ld even travel a few hours to look at one
    but I haven't found another.
    It sounds like you and Bill have come to realize what I have found out.
    The enjoyment of having a wooden boat that you have restored comes from
    seeing it brought back to it's original condition rather than having a
    boat to use. (Although there's nothing like cruising in a woody).
    Wayne

    
    
    
    Wayne,
    
    Books !   You name it we probaly have it.  That's how Marc restores
    to original.  I take the pictures/books and xerox them and enlarge
    them for detail.   My 1963 Chris Craft was vinyl deck, don't remember
    where he got the vinyl or what we used to replace it.  I do remember
    that it did not have lines in it like the original did.
    
    Contact me Vaxmail and we maybe could get together.  
    But a warning, when Marc's start bringing out the albums and books....
    he is usually very quiet...but a transformation takes place....and it is 
    non-stop.
    
    
    ...
    val
    
    
    ps. I live in Sturbridge, Ma.

    This weekend was somewhat eventful, when we arrived Fri. evening
    we found someone had brought in a 1952 52' Wheeler.
    Its in pretty tought shape, but floating. Saturday the owner
    was working on it, and of course he invited me aboard for a 
    tour.
    
    Here's some specs and features: (subject to disagreement)
    
    1952 52' Wheeler.
    Twin General Motors Diesels 671, 198 hp
    beam: 14'6" possibly 15'
    weight: 30-40 Tons
    Bridge is over Salon.
    Has pneuamtic clutches, push button, throttles are cables.
    1 head, with head, and enclosed shower, reasonably large.
    From Bow to Stern:
    	Forward Vee, (gutted)
    	Galley,  all applicances, but old, and a lowered tile ceiling.
    	Salon, with wooden floor, and engine access hatches.
        Head, on the Starboard side, double bunks port, beds side by side.
    	Master stateroom aft, (gutted)
    
    It also has a generator, and central heat///// complete with
    Oil Burner and Furnace.
    
    Speed 12-14k. thru most sea conditions.
    
    Some handyman must have owned this, its just the way things
    have been done, and the items installed are of the household
    type. The entire boat has a lovely coat of white paint, and
    some of the boards on the hull were re-fastened with Roof nails.
    There are large amounts of ROT, and to keep water out, the 
    owner has a lot of "blue plastic" tarp in various spots.
    
    I was cautious when moving around, making sure of my footing
    and that what was under move did not give too much.
    
    The owner plans to restore it, it will be his 4th Wheeler
    restoration.
    
    Suprising for its condition he mentioned that he had to pay
    16K for it. 
    
    Its definitely a sin that some of these had to fall into the hands
    of folks who did not have the faintest idea of how to repair
    or restore a boat.
    
    I'm sure in 1952 it was quite a "Flagship".
    
    JIm.
    

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Note 763.0                         Wood Boats                          3 replies
EXPRES::GILMAN                                       21 lines  10-OCT-1990 16:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have searched for another string addressing wooden boats but
    was not able to figure out how to use the keyword wood or wooden
    to FIND a topic in the file on wooden boats.  Can anybody tell
    me the EXACT format to search for a header such as wood?
    
    Anyway, I know that probably wooden boats will get the hell
    criticized out of them in this string, but I have one, and have
    to make the best of it. Is there a data base (people) out there
    have still have useful information on maintenance on wooden boats?
    
    I really don't need to know all the advantages aluminum boats and
    fiberglass boats have over wooden ones described to me.... I already
    know.  I do need pointers on how to store a wooden boat in the
    winter. How to minimize rot when fresh water rains into a wooden
    boat, how to re-fasten a wooden boat... stuff like that.
    
    Is there anybody else out there with a wood boat, and that likes
    it?  Those are the people I really want to hear from.
    
    Thanks, Jeff
    

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Note 763.1                         Wood Boats                             1 of 3
GALAXY::KENNEY                                       24 lines  10-OCT-1990 16:42
                    -< Wood discussion all over the palce >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	A simple DIR/TITLE=WOOD results in the following display, and it
    only took a couple of minutes.
    
    49     BTO::JPETERS      16-JUN-1988    12  Soggy wood under fiberglass
   297   SSVAX::REDFIELD     11-MAR-1989     7  Finishing a Wood Dinghy?
   408  CRBOSS::NERKER       15-JUN-1989     9  Woods Hole question
   545    CAPO::NEWELL_DO    20-OCT-1989    15  HELP ON PRER/PAINT WOODEN BOAT
   741   A1VAX::CAREY        17-AUG-1990    12  Wooden Boat Enthusiasts
   763  EXPRES::GILMAN       10-OCT-1990     0  Wood Boats


    	A directory using the keyword wood DIR/KEY=WOOD  results in the
    following notes. 
    
   545    CAPO::NEWELL_DO    20-OCT-1989    15  HELP ON PRER/PAINT WOODEN BOAT
   741   A1VAX::CAREY        17-AUG-1990    12  Wooden Boat Enthusiasts

    
    	Reading through these will get you a good start, also check the
    sailing notes file.  It is MSCSSE::SAILING it has a number of
    discussion on wooden boats.  Please check out entry 3 & 3.48, as well
    as note 663 it has 114 replies.  
    
    Forrest

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Note 763.3                         Wood Boats                             3 of 3
EXPRES::GILMAN                                       18 lines  11-OCT-1990 07:40
                               -< Preservation >-
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    I have a cedar hull (oak frame) salt water boat from Maine. Its a 17
    foot outboard with windshield and foredeck. It badly needs a paint job,
    but other than that is in pretty good shape. I intend to keep it on a
    trailer, and use it on fresh and salt water. Fresh water tends to rot
    wooden boats I believe.  So I keep about a half inch of 'salt water' in
    the boat (made with Halite crystals) when its on the trailer. In the
    winter I will let the boat dry out completely when its stored inside.
    Does anybody have any experience on methods of preventing rot in a wood
    boat in and out of fresh water?  Does my 'salt water' method seem to be
    an idea that will help?  Are there any products on the market which I
    could apply to the wood this winter when I strip the wood of paint to
    help prevent future rot?  When I do strip the paint should I use heat
    and a scraper or paint stripping chemicals?  I ask about the chemicals
    because I wonder about resudues of the stripping chemicals left in the
    wood which will soften and bubble the new paint.   Any brand name
    chemical strippers which anyone can recommend?
    
    Thanks for the help.   Jeff

    I have a subscription to Wooden Boat magazine that is quite informative 
    in all areas of wooden boats.  You can subscribe by calling
    207-359-4651.  The magazine is published bi-monthly and cost $22.95 for
    six issues.

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Note 7.106                     Trailering the boat                    106 of 111
FURTHR::HANNAN "Beyond description..."               27 lines  16-AUG-1991 10:12
                                -< great info! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Thanks for all the great and encouraging info!  I can smell
	the salt spray as I type ;-)

	To answer the questions: the F150 is a standard 8 cylinder,
	and has been used for construction type work for several years
	hauling stone and other building materials with no problem.
	Good, new tires on it.  Not exactly sure of the engine size,
	but it's definitely 8 cylinders.

	I think the tongue weight is OK.  The only problem towing was
	getting it *out* of the water.  It rides really nicely on
	the road and on the highway with no swaying at all.  It sure
	is nice to look in the rearview mirror and see my own boat attached ;-)

	But with all that water in it and the resulting "negative tongue",
	it makes sense that we had a problem.  The power bilge will be
	installed shortly to deal with that.  Plus, the ramp was a gravel/
	packed sand ramp at a Buffamville in Charlton with minimal slope.
	The tires spun with all that weight.

	Since no major eyebrows were raised over the amount of water
	taken in, I assume I shouldn't be too worried about a problem of
	a leak in the boat ?   Of course I'll keep an eye on it.  The
	bilge pump is rated for about 800 gallons/hour.

	Thanks again,
	Ken

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Note 7.107                     Trailering the boat                    107 of 111
SALEM::NORCROSS_W                                     6 lines  16-AUG-1991 13:18
                       -< Wood boats always leak some. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By boat took three days of sitting to swell up enough to stop leaking
    like a sieve.  You didn't say how long yours was out of the water but
    you also probably have a lapstrake which must work differently.  I
    would let the boat sit in the water for a few days before i made a
    judgement on if you needed to do some work.  
    Wayne

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Note 7.108                     Trailering the boat                    108 of 111
MR4DEC::DCADMUS                                      53 lines  16-AUG-1991 14:24
                             -< RECAULK THE SEAMS >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    If that was a leak and not a missing drain plug that caused tou to takr
    on that much water , then I suspect a major problem. The Old Thompson's
    I had had a single sheet of plywood on either side of the keel. there
    were only one or two starkes below the water line.
    
     If the boat hasn't been in salt water all it's life,then the fasteners
    aren't all corroded. THompson's used bent oak ribs spaced pretty close
    together and had bronze machine screws with washers and nuts to fasten
    the starkes to each other and to the ribs. There were literally
    thoyusans of fasteners in the two I had. You may need to tighten some
    of these up.
    
     If the fasteners aren't loose, then you need to recaulk the seams.
    
     1. Let the boat dry out
    
     2. Take it off the trailer and set the hull on the ground and roll it
    over about 45 deg until 1/2 the bottom is pretty exposaed an
    accessable.-It's easy to do.
    
     3. take a seam scraper or a similar "v" pointed object and celan oput
    all the seams below the water line. Get all the old junk out. Pay
    special attention along the keel wher the bottom sheet of plywood meets
    the keel.
    
     4. Pick up some "lifecaulk" marine caulking compound- I wouldn't use
    anything else, and carefully fill in all the seams. Ifthere is a big
    gap along the keel, you may wantto caulk in cotton seam caulking.
    
     5 after the lifecaulk dries, paint the bottom
    
     6. put boat back on trailer and have fun.
    
    
    My old Thompson used to leak a little- especially when I first put it
    in the water for the season or after a choppy run, but it would stop
    in a few hours. An electric automatic Bilge pump is a necessity on a
    wooden boat. The hulls will "give" when underway and I have yet to see
    one that didn't take on some water -even tied up at the dock.
    Trailering the boat as to keeping in the water causes the hull to 
    flex a lot, and the alternate weeting and then drying out tends to
    cause the seams to open up- so a good, flexible caulking is what you
    need that will handle a lot of expansion/contractioon of the seams.
    LifeCaulk is the best stuff I've found- last time I bouight some it ran
    about $10 for a tube that I can us ein a regular caulking gun.  Make
    sure the seams are clean and there is no loose paint/old caulking, etc.
    
     You shouild be able to get it done on a Saturday- there are only a few
    seams below the water line.
    
    Dick

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Note 7.109                     Trailering the boat                    109 of 111
FURTHR::HANNAN "Beyond description..."               21 lines  16-AUG-1991 14:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re:                      <<< Note 7.108 by MR4DEC::DCADMUS >>>

>     If the boat hasn't been in salt water all it's life,then the fasteners
>    aren't all corroded. THompson's used bent oak ribs spaced pretty close
>    together and had bronze machine screws with washers and nuts to fasten
>    the starkes to each other and to the ribs. There were literally
>    thoyusans of fasteners in the two I had. You may need to tighten some
>    of these up.

	I don't think the boat ever saw fresh water till I got it.
	Your description sounds right on, but haven't looked under the
	flooring yet (in reference to the sheets of plywood).  The guy
	I bought it from, an old friend of the family's, has it all
	leaded up on the bottom on either side of the keel, with fiberglass
	strips, etc.   Ie, he took real good care of his fishing machine.
	Will I be able to tell what's up by checking from the inside under
	the flooring ?
    
	Thanks for all the info.   It all makes sense!

	Ken

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Note 7.110                     Trailering the boat                    110 of 111
MR4DEC::DCADMUS                                      19 lines  20-AUG-1991 09:15
                               -< Hidden leaks? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    I'd check around that keel nery carefully-only a small crack will let
    in lots of water. A trick you can use is to put the boat on a traile,
    get the keel level, and put a samll amout of water in teh baiot- if you
    are leeking next to the keel- it will show up. Don't put too much water
    in- at 7#/gal or thereabouts, you could end popping the bottom off.
    
      I'd tend to strip the glas off, or ar least remove any loose pieces
    and go with life caulk-> Resin is pretty inflexible (I suspect the
    forme rowner used polysester resin and not epoxy resin),while
    life-caulk is very rubbery. Make surethat glass tape is not starting
    to separate from the hull
    
    
    
    Dick
    
    

	When I was working on my wooden '58 Thompson the other day,
        I noticed a few black carpenter ants in the boat.   I can't
	see under the floorboards to tell if they've taken up residence 
	in the boat or if they've done any damage, but I'm concerned.

        My house, where the boat is stored, is surrounded by hundreds
        of acres of woods, so carpenter ants are common.  No idea how
	long they've been there or if I just saw a random ant or 2.

        My questions are:  will they eat treated wood ?   Should I be
        concerned (I already am) ?   Will insecticides like Diazinon
        which will kill ants (and most other living things :-/) affect
        the wood/caulking/etc on the boat ?

        Thanks,
        Ken
[End of file]



 Buf

    Ken,  for peace of mind, I would pull up the floors to see what you
    are dealing with.  You have leaks that need to be located and fixed
    anyways so for safety's sake you should pull them up.  You'll feel alot
    better if you know that the hull under you is sound.  I'm not sure what
    you mean by "treated wood".  I don't know that wood boat manufacturers
    use treated (as in pressure treated) wood in boat contruction. I
    suppose the choice of woods over the years (say mahogany) was aimed at
    having woods that retarded wood rot but not ant attacks.  
    Wayne

    I agree with the prior noter... pull up the floorboards and check.
    I put a bit of salt water in my wooden boat when its out of the water
    between weekend uses. I keep my boat on a trailer. I use either Halite
    or water conditioner salt to throw in the bottom of the boat if it has
    a bit of fresh water in it.  So far.... no rot.  Keep your eye on the 
    ants and I bet they won't get ahead of you.  Can ants live on salt 
    soaked wood? I doubt it.
    Jeff

    
    My Father in law is very interested in trying to find an old woody that
    he can restore.  He is into this kind of thing.  He has rebuilt a
    hydroplane that is capable of 118 mph now, a 1932 ford which is winning
    awards at shows, and an old fishing boat that gets a lot of use every
    weekend.
    
    The woody should be in repairable condition.  He is not looking for a
    finished product.
    
    Anyone know of any available?
    
    
    Thanks,
    Steve
    

    The August issue of OFFSHORE had a review of a Marina in New Jersey
    just off New York Harbor where the owner had several old wooden boats
    needing restoration - he was supposedly waiting for someone committed
    to fixing them up to come along at which point he'd rather give them
    away than see them scrapped.

    Steve, there are many types of "woody's".  Does he want something like
    an old Thompson or Lyman, lapstrake construction, with an outboard or
    does he want one of the old mahogany inboards like a Garwood,
    Chris-Craft, Century, Etc.  A trip to Boyd's Boats in Canton, CT would
    be a good starting point if you are in this area (203-693-4811).  If
    you are not from the New England area, send me mail and I'll tell you
    of other boat yards specializing in "woody's".  I can also send you the
    latest "Classic Boating" and "Wooden Boat", both have excellent
    classified sections but you have to promise to return them.
    Wayne

    Steve, I just received my new "Classic Boating" mag yesterday.  Boyd's
    Boats is advertising some boats at drastically reduced prices. 
    Example: 1960 Chris-Craft 24' Sportsman, twin screw inboard.  Twin
    Chevy V-8's. Folding top. No trailer.  In water and running fall 1990.
    Recently varnished.  Price reduced from $5000 to $3500.  
    He also has another Sportsman with a single 283 Chevy needing more work
    for $1000.
    Also, a 1956 Chris-Craft 20' Continental complete with original CC
    engine but needing deck work for $2500.  That is a very collectable
    boat when restored.  
    Boyd's prices have always been fair.  I'm not sure why he is slashing
    his prices like this.  He usually has 40 boats available from total
    wrecks to totally restored.  Maybe he just wants to reduce inventory
    for the winter.  They are located just West of Hartford, CT.  If I was
    in the market, I'ld be driving down there myself to take a look.
    Call Boyd.  He is really helpfull to talk to.
    Wayne

    Wayne,
    
    This is exactly what he had described that he wanted.  I will get this
    note to him so I can see what he wants to do from here....
    
    
    Thanks,|
    Steve
    

    Steve, Rick Wilson has a set of pictures I took at the Lake Winny boat
    show in July.  He might let you borrow them for ideas.  He lives in 
    Milford.  You work in Nashua?  Do you live around here?  (I'm from
    Brookline.)  The pictures show alot of the different styles of "woodys"
    that are collectables.
    Wayne

    There was a show on DISCOVER last night about wooden boats and wooden
    boat building in Maine.  The narrator said that 'wooden boats have
    souls because they come from living material'.  I know what he ment.
    There is a feel to wooden boats which I don't experience in non wood
    boats.  Scientifically the wood is dead after cut, right? But something
    seems to remain of its past aliveness.  Do others know what I mean?

    Well let's see, one of the major ingredients in fiberglass resin
    is petroleum.  Petroleum is a fossile fuel, originally created
    by zillions of little creatures that lived millions of years ago.
    So my fiberglass boat is ALIVE too!
    
    Seriously, I know exactly what you mean and have recently become
    interested in old wooden boats.  They are great, although a lot 
    of work to keep them nice.
    
    Rick

    Yeah... its a stretch to see wood as still alive.  I suppose what we
    really feel is sort of the hand made feel. That show last night had
    all wood sailing yacht which had required 160,000 man hours to build.
    What a palace it was.  160 K man hours is the equivalent of one man
    working 40 hour weeks for 79 years!  I can't imagine risking that
    kind of money and time on something as fickel as the ocean.
    
    My 17 foot outboard is 30 years old and made of cedar planks on
    oak frames.  She is in excellent shape, for her age. I refastened
    her and fixed her all up last winter.  If you keep after it the
    maintenance isn't too bad.
    
    Jeff

    Does anyone know of a preservative which one can slop around in the
    bilges of a wooden boat (painted already in bilges) to help reduce the
    chances of rot?  This substance would have to dry and be able to be
    painted over.  Also, the dry texture of the preservative would have
    to be smooth.

    "Gluvit"?

    Gluvit-Epoxy Waterproof Sealer:  2 part stuff that can be used to find,
    fill and seal leaks above or below the waterline.  I also used it to
    "treat" some rotted wood (in my wooden boat days) on the lower edges of
    stringers.  The stuff dries semi-transparent (very hard) and can be
    painted or tinted if need be.  It's available at most marine supply
    places (or catalogs) for under $20 bucks a qt.
    Also, it can be applied with a brush or drizzled into cracks or seams.
    
    Doug

    I wonder if the stuff isn't 'just' an epoxy rather than a preservative
    too.  Leaks aren't my problem, neither is rot... yet.  But I don't want
    rot to start.
    
    Jeff

    
    	I would not use it as a rot barrier.  Epoxy coating of wood as a
    wood stabilization, rot barrier works but requires total exclusion of
    all moisture paths.  If you build a boat from the keel up and saturate
    the wood it works fine.  It has other advantages when used this way see
    books and articles on epoxy strip plank construction. I would look at a
    more traditional approach like salting the bilges etc.
    
    Forrest

There is an excellent article in the March/April 1992 issue of 
WoodenBoat magazine that discusses boatbuilding using wood and epoxy. 
There is really no way to successfully seal all of the wood in a 
traditionally built boat once it has been built. Attempting to do so is 
likely to cause more problems than it solves.

	Using an epoxy coating on an already constructed wooden boat is 
	more likely to seal water in than to keep it out.

	Even using paint in a bilge area is often considered a bad idea.

	However, an appropriate primer coat can be used safely.  Look
	for one containing linseed oil and kerosene.  An example is
	Glidden oil-based exterior house primer.

    I see adds in Classic Boating mag occasionally for wooden runabouts
    with "fiberglassed bottoms".  They always seem to be priced way
    below market value.  Is that because once a wooden bottom is
    fiberglassed it does promote quicker rotting or could it be because
    once someone is desperate enough to fiberglass that the bottom was
    probably marginal to begin with?  There seems to be a definite science
    to using the different types of epoxy systems like West Systems, etc.
    I would not want to attempt it without a good lesson in how/when to use
    it for fear of trapping moisture.  It did use "Git-Rot" on a small area
    of my transom which was just above the waterline.  It works it's way
    into small sections of rotted wood by capillary action and then
    hardens.  It's probably nothing more than very thin two part epoxy.
    The transom on the old Century Resorters is usually the first to go
    because the area behind the rear seat doesn't get good ventilation.
    Wayne

    I have studied rot prevention in wooden boats rather extensively.  The
    consensus seems to sum things up as follows to best prevent rot in an
    already built wooden boat.
    
    1. Do not allow the wood to remain damp with fresh water in poorly
    ventilated areas.
    
    2. Promote ventilation
    
    3. Salt water does not cause rot.
    
    4. "Sweet" (fresh) water promotes rot like crazy.
    
    5. Salt the bilges.
    
    6. Consider established rot like cancer and remove "all" of it. 
    
    Also, I have an excellent book on fiberglassing wooden boats. 
    Fiberglassing has a terrible reputation on wooden boats because its
    usually done improperly.  Two KEYS to properly fiberglassing a wooden
    boat... even over rotten wood are as follows:
    
    1. Do NOT use fiberglass cloth... use fiberglass MATT.
    
    2. Fasten the matt to the wood with staples/nails to the wood
    underneath before the resin sets up... if this is done the
    fiberglassing job will last virtually forever... even if the wood
    rots out from under it because the fiberglass will act as its own
    support.  Also, one must build up at least four (4) layers of matt
    over the wood.  By following the above one can effectively fiberglass
    a wood boat.  There is more to it than that... but the above captures
    the essence of fiberglassing which works on wood.
    
    Jeff

    I had two uncles and a grandfather who were shipwrights, and my father
    was a part tim boatbuiler/owner. I'm into old sailing ships, their
    construction, etc as some of the research for my hobby of ship model
    building.
    
     Salt does a great job of killing the fungus that causes dry rot. When
    I was Kid ,tha accepted way to put up a boat fro the winter was to pour
    rock salt in the bilges and do everything possible to keepfresh water
    away. The ols sailing ships usesd ti have the hulls planked on both
    sides of the frames and the cavityy was packed with rock salt-there
    were even small hatches or loading ports between the frames to top off
    the rock salt periodically.
    
      The water sloshing around in the bilges won't start the rot- it's
    the rain water getting in and making things damp that gets it started.
     Most rot seems to start during the winter when the boat is covered
    (no ventilation) and things are nice and damp from condensation and
    seepage with FRESH water.
    
     Keep the boat well ventilated
     Fix any topside leaks or seepage
     Keep rock salt in the bilges
    
    Dick
    
    

    I wonder about the fasteners.  My boat is fastened with galv. nails.
    They are already rusting.  But she has been refastened with bronze.
    Nice battery there.  Steel nail, bronze screws in a nice salt water
    electrolyte.  Which is worse electrolisis on the fasteners or rot on
    the planks?  I suppose the old ships were fastened with treenails or
    dowells so electrolyis on fasteners didn't count?
    
    I do put rock salt in the bilges when using my boat on a lake. I
    take my chances on the fasteners.

    This is one of those stories where you find a boat you used to own
    which has now fallen on hard times.
    
    My father had a 15 ft. lapstrake Lyman that he bought new on 1950
    with a 25 HP Johnson (later had a 35 HP Johnson put on in the mid-60's)
    The boat was in great shape but in 1987 needed a couple of ribs
    replaced and some rot repaired in stern. He was then nearing 70 and
    decided that the annual maintenance plus the work needed were getting
    to be more than he wanted to do so he sold it to someone who said he
    had plans to restore it. My father took great pride in the boat (after
    37 years it was part of the family!) and even when he sold it the
    mahogany deck and trim were in perfect shape and the sides and bottom
    had recently been painted. 
    
    Last week we happened to pass through the yard of his local marina/boat
    repair facility (Charlotte, VT) and there it was. It looked as if it
    had spent the last 5 years stored outside uncovered. All the varnish
    was peeling, the boat was half full of greenish water, many of the ribs
    were rotted away near the bottom. The white sides and copper bottom
    were badly faded and peeling. I think seeing it like that broke both
    our hearts and I was almost sorry I had seen it tucked away in the
    corner of the yard. We both hoped that maybe the reason it was there is
    that someone is going to work on it. We both agreed that it was like
    finding an old friend who had fallen on hard times.
    
    Larry

    re: .46
    So why wait and hope someone else will do the work?  Since the
    boat means that much to your family, go rescue the boat and tackle 
    it yourself!  Sounds like a good winter project.
    
    Rick

    Right on Rick.  Why not buy it for a 'song' 'can't be worth much now'
    as far as OTHER people are concerned.  Do them a favor and take it off
    their hands for them, at least let them think its a favor.
    
    Jeff

    If anyone should subscribe to "Classic Boating" magazine, check-out the 
    July-August, 1993, issue on page 5, top left picture in "Reader's Photo
    Album".  Now I have proof that "Sweet Fifteen" has made it to the
    water.  Of course Rick Wilson was the only other person in the notes
    file who I know subscribed to this magazine (the bible of wooden boat
    enthusiasts) and he's gone so still nobody is going to believe me.
    I'll just have to buy up 100 copies of the mag, autograph them, and
    give them to all who doubted that I would ever get the thing launched!
    Wayne

    
    we'll take xerox copies.......
    
    JIm

    Congrats Wayne!  Got my copy of Classic Boating a couple days ago,
    and spotted your boat right away on the "Reader's Boats" page.
    
    Nice picture too!
    
    Rick
     

    I figure that if I have to sell the boat this fall or spring (the Rick
    Wilson Syndrome, "And Baby Makes Three"), I can place an ad in the
    magazine a refer to the July/August issue for the picture.  It's like
    getting a picture ad without the price.
    Wayne

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              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 1125.0   If U own or want a Wooder -If U own or want a Wodder    No replies
GLDOA::DBOSAK "The Street Peddler"                   19 lines  24-NOV-1993 08:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just purchased a West System Booklet entitled "Wooden Boat
    Restoration and Repair."
    
    I got it from BOAAT US for $2.98 and it is worth 100 times that much,
    now that I've read it.
    
    For those of you who have wooders and want plain old talk on how to fix
    the little lady up, I strongly suggest that this booklet should be on
    your "Must Read" list!!!
    
    If you can't find it in your area, try:
    
    Gougeon Brothers, Inc
    P.O. Box 908
    Bay City, MI 48707
    (517) 684-7286
    FAX (517 684-1374
    
    

    I wonder if any wood boat experts could give me a bit of information.
    I have a 1958(?) or thereabouts 16' HiLiner Fleetstar (this one was built in
    Ipswich, Ma.) which I have had for over 30 years. I have yet to find
    out just how much it weighs. I am in the market for a new trailer and
    there seems to be a difference of opinion as to just how much it
    weighs. I am guessing around 700-900 #. I have a '64 Evinrude
    SportFour, 60hp which weighs 225#. I have an old brochure on some
    slightly later HiLiners but the weights are not listed. 
    BTW, for those interested, all hardware including the convertable
    top/side curtins are original. The upolstery is also original but is in
    need of replacement....yesterday.....that's next after the trailer. I
    have stripped the deck once and revarnished it. The topsides were
    refinished about 3 years ago. Stays on a trailer when not being used. 
    I don't want to buy a trailer which is way over capacity nor I want one
    which is undersized. 

    Take it to a moving company.  Most have scales to weigh trucks. Weigh
    the boat, car and trailer.  Go float the boat.  Now weigh only the car
    and trailer. The difference is the boat.  Adjust for the evinrude and
    you got it. 
    
    ...Kevin

    Does anyone know of a magazine that focuses on wooden power boats?
    I believe Wooden Boat is mostly non-powered craft.
    
    
    Thanks,
    Bill

Bill,

	Note 741.8 recommends "Classic Boating"....


Rick