Conference vicki::boats

    I may not have gotten a good deal, but I highly recommend the Sears
    Marine Diehard (and they do go on sale once in awhile).  My boats
    made out of wood and it tends to leak (that's an understatement).
    I left it unattended for 5 weeks last summer.  It has an automatic
    bilge pumps that starts up about every hour like clockwork.  After
    5 weeks, the battery still turned the engine (small block Ford)
    over like it had just been charged.  I did go with an oversize 
    battery because I knew that the pump would be running alot, but
    the price wasn't that much more.  If I remember it cost about $100.
    There's alot of peace of mind in that price but it's cheaper than
    having to replace the engine if the boat sank.
    Wayne

    Rick,
       I second the Sears Batteries.  For your boat, all you really need is
    the marine cranking battery, to turn the starter and the tapedeck,
    (no marine  electronics to speak of) regular price of which is 39.95.
    The week I went to buy one for my boat, they had a marine die-hard (the
    small case-size one for 44.95 with trade.  Thats what I'm running.
    Just keep your eyes on the sale flyers.
    Doug

    
    Hi all,
    
    Rumor has it that BJs wholesale outlets has Delco/Voyager deep cycle
    batteries (the oversized ones.... not sure of the model #) for $49.99.
    These battries are the same size/cranking power as Sears biggest
    Marine batteries (I have three of the Sears Incredicells.. Two for
    my trolling motor and one cranking) in my bass boat and I paid about
    $75.00 apiece for them, on sale. 
    
    One thing to consider though, I cooked one of my 1+ year old batteries
    when my timer for my battery charger went south and Sears replaced it
    FREE with a brand new one... No questions asked.  The simply tested 
    it, said it was bad, and handed me a new one.  Nice touch.
    
    FWIW,
    
    Gus
    

    bj's has the delco on sale for $49, $74 at K-mart...
    
    jim.

    I bought a Delco at BJ's, to replace a regular sized battery for my
    boat, at a price of $44. A piece of cake for those dollars.
    
    Mike

    Is there a differance in a Marine battery and a deep cycle battery or
    is
    they both the same??

    
                   -<yes....>-
    
    There are two styles of marine batteries. The
    first is simply a marine "starting" battery. As
    the name suggests, all they 'should' be used for
    is starting the engine. They are designed for short
    bursts of high current draw such as starting. They 
    cannot handle being completely discharged and then
    recharged. This type of use/abuse shortens their
    lifespan considerably. On the other hand, a marine/rv
    deep cycle is designed to be discharged over a period
    of time to the point of death. This is the type of
    battery used on electric trolling motors, motorhomes
    and criusers that use a lot of low current/high volume
    appliances. In the stores, they are labeled as deep
    cycle. Generally, they are a bit more expensive due
    to the materials used to construct them.
    
    Andy

    There is an ad in the boston globe this morning for the Sears Diehard
    marine/rv battery on sale for $54.97 with tradde in..
    
    	Just a F.Y.I. for anyone out there looking..

    FYI, that $54.95 Sears Die Hard is the exact same size as the BJ's
    Delco Voyager Deep Cycle Marine/RV battery at $44.95. The $5 more size
    at BJ's is the taller, thicker, and wider version of a marine battery.
    These batteries, no matter who makes them, have very low warranty
    periods, so that shouldn't be an issue in deciding which battery to
    buy. My 19' I/O will only accept the small-size marine battery withouot
    replacing the battery box. No big deal, because I don't even require
    the deep cycle feature. I start the engine and run off the alternator,
    and spend little if any time at anchor in the night, and only a few
    minutes on the blower before starting the engine. WHat's the big deal
    with needing a deep cycle battery in my case? BTW, my 30 mo. warranteed
    battery lasted only 36 months...(original interstate which came with
    the boat)
    
    Mike

Moved by moderator
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Note 735.0                  Whats a "Marine" battery?                 No replies
MKODEV::HAMEL                                         3 lines  13-AUG-1990 10:29
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        Can someone explain the difference between a Marine battery and
        a "standard" battery used in automobiles?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've moved this note to an existing battey topic.  See note 720.7
for a good description of the differences in batteries.  Also, typing
DIR/TITLE=BATTERY shows that there is additional battery info in 
notes 53, 217, 306, and 722.  If anyone has additional info to add 
that will answer the above question please post it here.

Rick W.
co-mod

    According to the General Manager of Surettette Battery  Co. of Tilton
    N.H. the over-the-counter "deep cycle" batteries we pay a premium for
    at auto parts stores and some marinas are actualy general duty auto
    starting batteries which a 'deep cycle' label on them.  The true deep
    cycle battery has much thicker plates than the starting batteries do.
    So how do you find a true deep cycle battery.  I suggest buying from
    a Co. like Surrette which specializes in Commercial Grade Batteries or
    from another mfg. who specializes in industrial quality batteries.
    
    Jeff

    Spelling on my last is wrong.  Make that Surrette Batt Co.  No, I don't
    work for them or have any personal profit from recommending them.

    
    I don't work for them either, but i'll recommend them.
    
    along with the technical chat, you can beat the sh*t out of them
    and keep going.
    
    of course it depends on what kind of boating your doing...
    
    JIm.

I have 2 each 120 ampere hour Surrettes on my sail boat. I can 
attest that they are $$$ expensive $$$. I bought them with a 
trade discount at Atlantic Battery in Watertown for about $150 
each. Atlantic owns Surrette. I will never pay that much for a 
battery again and am sorry I shelled out that much money just for 
the sake of supposed reliability and a brand name. Note, Atlantic/
Surrette is a small manufacturer and they have no automatic 
processing in their manufacturing process and the result is high 
cost.

Last week I was in SAM's outlet in Westboro and was pleasantly 
surprised by the batteries they had for sale. I don't remember 
the brand name but they were HUGE farm batteries. I remember one 
battery that cost $90 was so heavy that I doubt if I could've 
picked it up. I don't know much more about the quality of their 
products but I am willing to buy one when a Surrette goes belly  
up on my boat. 

Joe

    RE: .14
    Are you sure that a "farm" battery has the right electrical
    and mechanical charateristics to survive in a marine
    environment?
    
    Rick 

    RE: .15
    
    There should be no difference  in the electrical characteristics of a
    farm/auto/truck/marine battery. But, there were obvious differences
    in the mechanical characteristics between them and the batteries 
    I presently own. The geometry of the battery was different but 
    one I could live with.
    
    I don't want to enter a "rat hole" related to so called deep
    discharge features. But in my opinion, the number of plates (surface
    area) is important because it determines the temperature rise
    of the battery during high current flow. The thickness of the plate
    controls the cells ability to replenish the surface charge on the 
    plate. Any battery as heavy and as big as those I saw must have the
    capacity to deliver any load current needed for my boat.
    
    As to the marine environment, I doubt any manufacturer adds any
    esoteric material to their product to satisfy marine use. The 
    batteries appeared well sealed and in a rugged plastic case.
    
    Note, I didn't mean to dump on Surrette. They do make a good
    battery but I'm not ready to make another capital investment
    in batteries.
    
    
    Joe      

    If you go directly to the Surrette Plant in Tilton, N.H. you can get a
    much better buy than through a middle man.  I bought my current
    Surrette at a price comporable to a similiar sized over the counter
    battery.  I went right to the factory in Tilton.  My guess is you can 
    save about 1/3 that way.
    
    .16 you are making some guesses about the farm batteries specs.  At
    least with the Surrette you know what your getting... a premium batt
    built with marine use in mind... and yes at a premium price if bought
    at a marina.  Deep cycle batteries have less plates per cell but the
    plates are thicker.  Starting batts have more thinner plates to deliver
    high starting currents.  
    
    Be careful of over the counter "Deep Cycle" batteries, apparently there
    are few labeling laws governing what a deep cycle battery is.  In other
    words a mfg. can call a starting batt a deep cycle if they put a deep
    cycle label on it.
    
    Jeff

    I personally don't think the battery companies are trying to put one
    over on us when it comes to deep-cycle versus regular duty batteries.
    My tractor with it's diesel engine, two headlights, and some flashers
    requires a different type of battery than my boat.  The battery (which
    is relatively small) has to work very hard to crank over the diesel
    engine, especially in the winter.  If the engine doesn't start
    relatively quick, that battery is going to go dead fast cause it's
    really cranking out the amperage.  The boat battery has a totally
    different purpose.  Except for the short period of time it takes to
    start the engine, it's amperage drain is much less over a long period
    of time.  Especially if you have an electric fishing motor or raft-up
    with the stereo on, etc.  I'm sure the battery people would design
    these two types of batteries totally different or they are going to get
    alot of batteries returned on warranty in a hurry.
    Wayne

    The point from the Surrette Manager was that starting batteries (lots
    of thin plates appropriate for starting duty) are being labeled Deep
    Cycle when, in fact a deep cycle battery has few thin plates relative
    to the starting battery.  If they are labeling starting batteries
    deep cycle then this is fraud I would think. 

    Moved by moderator
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                                -< Powerboats >-
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Note 1069.0           Anybody know about Douglas batteries            No replies
AIMHI::ANNECSTON                                      5 lines  29-JUN-1993 11:32
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    Has anyone out there had any experince with a deep cycle marine battery
    by the mfg. name of Douglas. There is a company in Manchester NH that
    would sell me a 31 DCM with a 200 min. I think rating for 54.79. The
    person states that Douglas has been making batteries for 60 years and
    he feels that it is as good if not better than a Sears Diehart.

> Note 1069.0           Anybody know about Douglas batteries            No replies
> AIMHI::ANNECSTON                                      5 lines  29-JUN-1993 11:32


I don't know about Douglas marine batteries, but I recently picked up a 
battery as a spare for my car (during what turned out to be alternator 
problems) at C.A.P. Auto Parts, and it's a Douglas.  When I asked about
the brand, they said it's a large manufacturer's name and they make them
for lots of other companies.    

Since the car problem turned out to be an alternator problem, I never used
the battery, so I don't know anything about it.  Now it sits in my boat as 
a spare.

Ken