Conference vicki::boats

    Don't know the load ratings, but the Jumbo size gives a much
    better/smoother ride.  Also, you should be using 5/8" line minimum
    so the rope don't break...When you get to the 'greater than 350' length
    3/4" rope should be used.  These things have a lot of forces associated
    with them, in fact it's recommended that you Don't attach it to your
    pylon, but attach it to Both transom eyes using a harness with a safety
    release controlled by your spotter.  If done correctly and safely, yup,
    it's a real blast!
    Doug
    BTW, what kind is it (Paraflight, Parasail, Waterbird, ect?) Different
    types have different handling characteristics based on the way the
    harness (i.e. the thing you "sit" in) attaches to the chute.

    How do you winch people out there? The forces must be considerable,
    perhaps 300 pounds or more to keep a heavy person attached to the
    transom!
    
    Just a few other questions:
    
    What do you do if the drive fails and the parasailer is dropped into
    the water? In my parachute training, I was taught that the most
    dangerous landing is in the water and that kills most people who try
    it. I assume that if the parasailer is continually winched back in, he
    should be in front of the chute and safe. But if the chute folds over
    him, frankly, it'll be all over pretty damn quickly. And hauling in a
    drowned person, chute and lines is going to be no joke! The way I was
    taught was to unclip the Canopy Release pins just before hitting the
    water and diving away from the canopy.
    
    I tried parasailing once, off Maui. They never told me that they were
    going to slow the boat down and wet my feet. I have a good sense of
    humour, but I can tell you, because of my experience in parachuting, I
    was seconds away from pulling the "Cape Rels" and leaving the chute.
    The only thing that stopped me from doing it was that I was still
    working out if I would be attached to the tow line before they gunned
    the engine again!
    
    Another question:
    
    What precautions would be necessary before taking someone up? Ie.
    concerning other boats in the vacinity, wave height, pre-flight
    briefings, etc....
    
    Ray
    
    
    
    

So you guys did it on Saturday, eh Reg?  Excellent.  By your note, I take it
there was a slight mishap (rope broke) but no injuries?  I hope not.  So what's
the deal...these guys on Ft. Meadow looking to upgrade, or just get rid of the
one they have?  I know our ski club bought one (actually, Pepsi Cola bought it
for us cuz we have a Pepsi marketing person on our association's board of
directors).  The cost came to somewhere around $1200 with the sail, harness, 300
feet of line (I think it's 3/4") and carrying bag.  But that was 2 years ago.

...Roger...

re Roger

	Well, yes  *_I_*  did it;  but the minor mishap was on the 
first run, so nobody else got a turn.  The thing that broke was that
bridle thinggie that Doug referred to, we had it attached to the
lifting rings at the back of the boat.  We started at St Mark's ramp,
went down through the narrows past Mike Smith's place, around both
beaches and it snapped just as we were coming into the narrows again. 
I thought about pulling the black line to collapse the chute, but as I
lost speed and height my glide path steepened and I was able to dump
into about 6ft of water - I guess I was anxious to avoid trees, docks
and rocks.  They're looking to get rid of it, can't use it as easily
as they used to from their own beach since they added all the docks
and stuff, etc. 


re Doug

	I think we had it rigged right, though we came a little close 
to a big mess-up;  only at the last minute was it noticed that the 
harness wasn't hooked to the chute  - -  it would have been a hang on 
ride if we hadn't noticed that.  I think they havn't used it for a 
while and were going from (vague) memory.  I don't know the brand.

BTW, the guy giving instructions was used to pulling people up with a 
140 I/O, so he told my son to hit it when there was still a whole 
bunch of slack rope on the shore; I was at 50+ft and still trying to 
take my 3 or 4 steps.  It wasn't until we were out there that he 
remembered he hadn't told my son how to land me - fortunately he 
didn't need to do it anyway (-:, (-:     I got my feet up on the line 
and took the upside down and backward view of Marlborough and Hudson, 
they seem to make a lot more sense that way (-:, (-:


re Ray

	I think the recommended procedure is to land into the wind (as 
with most aeronautical schtuff), basically by slowly bringing the boat 
speed down and getting to almost zero slack in the line as the flyer 
hits the water.  Yes, you don't want to get tangled up in it and that 
was my biggest fear.  Get and keep the chute out behing the 
chutist(pilot, sailor, whatever), but don't drag them through the 
water.

	Reg	{thinking that it might be better to wait until I can 
		afford a new one  WITH  complete instructions}

Well, if I can get you guys to come down to RI we can try it with a relatively
new parasail with someone at the wheel who definitely knows what they're doing.
Nice ride when you're not worried that the driver will swing you into the trees
(or punch it with slack in the line).

So Reg, you still didn't answer the question...how much are they asking (or did
you consider offering)?  Unless the harness, bridle or chute is deteriorating
from misuse/neglect, it's probably worth a few hundred bucks anyway.  Heck, when
ours ripped, is cost us $100 to get it fixed.  Ya don't just sew it up with
cotton thread!  We had a sail shop do it right.  They replaced 2 panels and it
came out perfect.

...Roger...

re            <<< Note 693.5 by ROGER::GAUDET "Nothing unreal exists" >>>

> Well, if I can get you guys to come down to RI we can try it with a relatively
> new parasail with someone at the wheel who definitely knows what they're doing.

	Count me in  - -  we need three more.....   judging by the 
recent gumball attendance we ain't got that many friends Rog. (-:, (-:

	Three big ones;  it has had a panel replaced once, they caught 
it on a guy's outboard that was at the dock, they found a guy that 
contracts to Ft Devens.  If there's any deterioration its probably 
more due to DIS-use than MIS-use, care to look it over with me some 
time ?  Anyone wanna share in this thing ?

	Reg

Yeah, true Reg.  My face and shoulders are still burning from just cruising
around the lake all afternoon with no one to play with.

I'd be glad to check this thing out, although I'm not really interested in being
a part-owner of one.  The problem with them is that it's really a group thing.
Having one yourself is a neat idea, but unless you have 6 or 7 in your family
that *love* to parasail (and several of which also know how to drive for a
parasail), you spend most of your time giving rides to other people.  You have
to solicit other people's services to hold the chute and/or be a spotter, so
then you feel obligated to give them a ride in return.  Of course, no one you
recruit on the beach has any clue how to drive for one of these things, so if
*you* want a ride you're SOL.

We found that the "dis-use" problem is because the previous user(s) just tossed
it in a corner when they were done with it.  It's still wet, so it gets moldy
and mildewey (gee, that must be a new word, eh?).  We found that the best way
to store it is to fold it loosely into a fairly small bundle (maybe 1' x 3') and
hang it up, so that it drips dry and doesn't get too many creases in it.  This
is the 3rd season for ours, and I heard that the thing has been as good as new
the first time out each season.

...Roger...

    Wow, the things I'm reading in this topic are making my hair rise!
    
    Having parachuted in my dark and haywire past (and survived a couple of
    scary jumps!), I'm sensitive to the things that can go wrong.
    
    One of them is the fact that the material in the canopies degrades over
    time. I don't know about here in the US, but certainly in the UK we had
    a very rigid inspection procedure. Sun and water are VERY BAD for
    parachute canopies. You may not even see the damage, but one thing you
    can be sure of is that it's not as strong as it was when new.
    
    The other scary thing I'm reading about is FAILURE OF THE HARNESS!!!!!
    Oh boy, you are lucky to be alive.......
    
    I would be pretty leery about buying used canopies.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ray

    Cross posted here and in note 3 (classifieds)
    
================================================================================
Note 822.0             Parachute for sale for Paragliding             No replies
PEAKS::PAPAZIAN                                      17 lines  12-APR-1991 12:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings...

        I have a round 28' parachute and reserve from my skydiving days
        that I would like to sell and have it live again.

        I realize it's obsolete for skydiving, but was wondering if it can
        be used to be pulled behind a boat.

        Can anyone out there tell me if it can be used for water sports?
        Would it have to be modified? What is the going price for new and
        used chutes for that purpose? etc, etc.

        The parachute comes with container, harness, and reserve. It's in
        excellent condition. Made by Strong Enterprizes around 1976.

                        Thanks for any help,
                                Gary

    
    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 3.951                    Boat Sale Ads Here...                   951 of 963
ULTRA::BURGESS "Mad Man across the water"            27 lines  14-APR-1991 20:14
                             -< I don't think so. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re            <<< Note 3.948 by NRADM::WILSON "On the boat again..." >>>
>                    -< Parachute for sale for paragliding >-

>    Moved by moderator.  Maybe this should be in the parasail topic also?  

	Yes, I think it should be.
    
> ================================================================================
> Note 822.0             Parachute for sale for Paragliding             No replies
> PEAKS::PAPAZIAN                                      17 lines  12-APR-1991 12:00
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Greetings...

>         I have a round 28' parachute and reserve from my skydiving days
>         that I would like to sell and have it live again.

>         I realize it's obsolete for skydiving, but was wondering if it can
>         be used to be pulled behind a boat.

>         Can anyone out there tell me if it can be used for water sports?


	Its my understanding that  "ascending chutes"  are a 
substantially different design to  "descending chutes"  JWIH, FWIW, etc.

	Reg

re            <<< Note 693.5 by ROGER::GAUDET "Nothing unreal exists" >>>

>	Heck, when ours ripped, is cost us $100 to get it fixed. 

	Today I'm looking for a parasail repair shop, do you have 
their number ?   Does anyone else have the name and number of a 
reputable chute repair person around New England.

	Reg	{the parasailing submariner}

    The R W Shop in Brookline, NH, repairs/sells parachutes.  I would think
    that they could repair a parasail.  They are located on RT 13 just
    over the line from Mass heading North.  Their number is 603-673-5867.
    One minute from my house.  Let me know if you are in the area.
    Wayne

As I mentioned way back in .5, we had a sailing shop do the job for us.  I don't
exactly know which shop did the job, but I think it was in Newport, R.I.

I'll try to maintain power to that section of memory and ask this weekend.  Of
course, a power glitch is entirely likely before then.  :-)

...Roger...

OK, I lied.  We "tried" to have a sailing shop do it for us.  I asked the guy
who is our parasail "caretaker" and he said he went to "several" places that
make/repair sails and they wouldn't touch the parasail.  Liability was the
reason given.  Nobody wanted to attempt a repair and then if something happened
(like their seams fell apart, and someone came tumbling out of the sky) we could
blame them.  OK, fair enough.  So the guy told me that the parasail was sent
back to the manufacturer in NJ (don't know the name).  They replaced an entire
panel and checked each stitch on the whole sail, repairing any that needed it.

...Roger...

P.S.  The guy said one sail shop in Wickford, R.I. said they'd fix it, but we
      would have to sign a release form absolving them of all responsibility
      should anything happen.  Didn't give us that warm and fuzzy feeling that
      they'd do an adequate job.

re .last:

Given the current (sad) state of liability laws and liability insurance,
I'm not at all surprised no sailmaker would make the repairs. The loads
on a sail are much, much higher than on a parasail. Any sailmaker could
certainly make repairs more than adequately strong. 

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 998.0                        Para-sailing                        No replies
AD::GAETZ                                            19 lines  17-JUN-1992 16:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I didn't see any topic for this elsewhere.....
    
     I have seen people para-sailing on lakes before as well as the ocean.
    Does anybody know what is involved in doing this ??? A few questions
    come mind like:
    
    First off, where to get the parachut ?? 
    
    How much pulling power would you need ?? (would a strong Ski boat do?)
    
    What kinda of platform is needed to launch from ??? (another boat or
    something in tow is more what I fiqure)
    
    And what about Laws regarding this ??? 
    
    This should be a good start...
    
    Thanks,
    Mark.

re .16
    
>    How much pulling power would you need ?? (would a strong Ski boat do?)
 
	about as much power as you would use to pull up a skier of 
comparable weight and size on a slalom ski from a deep water start. 
If its a tournament ski boat just idle out until the slack is all gone
from the line, then bring the power on firmly.  The pilot (sailor ?)
shouldn't try to run after the boat, but should resist the pull and
take a half dozen or so steps with some resistance.  If you have less
power and are used to pulling skiers from docks or beaches (I know,
you shouldn't do it) then hit the throttle when there is comparable
slack in the line (a loop or two).   Once the chute and pilot start to
rise keep the power on until they are well clear of the water. beach,
trees, etc. Even if this means going a bit too fast make sure they get
up and clear right away, you don't want the chute and/or the pilot to
catch any water.  Once they're really up there adjust the boat speed 
very gradually, you only want ~15 or so MPH  "AIR SPEED"  and 
according to the wind strength and direction that could be almost any 
boat speed.  Don't watch the speedo, watch the chute, the line from 
the boat should be at ~30 degrees to the water.  If it gets too steep
there will be a lot of lift on the boat and you may lose control, too
slow and the chute and pilot will get dumped.  At 100 ft off the water
wind changes a lot, so don't assume that you can set the throttle and
boat direction and forget it.  Turns have to be slow and planned, the
chute will usually go wide, so trees, power lines, etc have to be
considered.  Also, you need to keep watching for wind direction in the
turns your direction changes relative to the wind, so you may need
10-15MPH more, or less. 
  
>    What kinda of platform is needed to launch from ??? (another boat or
>    something in tow is more what I fiqure)

	We've used a dock, we've also used a beach, get around someone 
you know that knows what they're doing, you need very still air the 
first few times and a good sense for little breezes that are hanging 
around 20 or so feet above the water and beach.  You need at least 5 
people to play at this game, driver, spotter, pilot, two helpers on 
the beach to hold the chute open.  At least one of those on shore 
should/must know what they're doing, so must the driver - more 
competence is better, but this is a minimum.
    
>    And what about Laws regarding this ??? 

	It doesn't seem to be specifically "Banned" anywhere, it 
probably is regarded as skiing so all the uscg approved life vest 
regulations apply.  The beach right opposite the lake commisioner's 
house on Ft Meadow Pond is a favorite launch, but those folks get out 
early, so there is never a hassle with life guards, etc.

	I suppose its technically a water skiing beach start - so you 
could get ticketed for it.

	Hey, its dangerous - don't do it - you could get hurt, or dead.


	Reg

    In new hampshire, a one day permit is required from the Dept of Safety
    Services (ie the lake police). I don't think getting a permit is very
    difficult. There was a company doing Parasail rides 5-6 years ago in
    Paugus Bay on Winnipesaukee. I haven't seen them for a while. Currently
    (last I heard) there is somebody renting parasail rides off of Hampton
    beach.
    
    Scott

     re:.17 Thanks for the help. I know understand alot more now.
    
    When I was up at Sabago Lake in ME they had parasailing on a small
    nearby lake. The had a large platform (~15x12)that was either in tow or
    self powered(don't remember), following the pulling Boat. I have
    never done this so I don't know how much the fee was.
    
    re:.18 I believe I did see them last year off Hampton beach.
    
    From previous notes I found (thanks to Rick) it seem to be a little
    too expensive to just jump into without trying it first. I've always
    heard it's a blast though.
    
     Again, Thanks for the input,
    			Mark.
    
    PS If I go up I'll let you know.