Conference vicki::boats

    My boat sat on the trailer for a few weeks in May as I dodged the
    rain trying to get a coat of wax on the hull.  I found some water
    in the bilge and didn't give it a second thought.
    
    Both the pump and the switch are manuf. by Rule located in Gloucester.
    They're quite a common brand name. The switch is a mercury type
    and the instructions indicate the best wiring set-up as being automatic
    with a manual overide.
    
    /MArk

    I vote for Rule also. Have used them over the years with no trouble.
    Buy the regular "Rule-a-matic" from Boat/US they are $17.95 and
    good up to 15 amps at 12VDC The Rule Super Switch is $25.95 but
    I don't know why it is "super" since it too is rated at 15 amps
    at 12VDC. Directions for wiring auto and manual come with it.
    

    A third vote for Rule.  Spags carries Rule bilge pumps and switches (at
    least they always have in the past).  When I purchased mine there they
    had the best price around.
    
    Herb

    I have Rule"s as well.
    
    One further note, locate it "where water collects when you are
    
    not normally aboard" otherwise it will not do you much good.
    
    
    JIm.

    What's the best way of mounting the automatic switch?  The bilge is
    coated with this irregular rough black stuff (whatever they put on the
    inside of fiberglass hulls in unseen places).  It doesn't look too easy
    to screw something down, and I sure don't want to put a screw through
    the hull.

    I had the same problem two years ago.  After a period of hard rain I
    had 1 1/2 feet of water in the cabin.  Put in auto bilge pump and th
    problem went away.  I used the Atwood with auto built-in float.  It has
    work fine for two years now.
    

    Use epoxy and make sure the surface is clean
    

    For mounting the float switch, if you don't want to screw it down, use
    either RTV silicon or a puddle of epoxy and "stick it" in place.

Automatic bilge pump switches have been known to fail. I would suggest 
installing the switch so that it is easily removed and replaced. That 
is, don't glue the switch to the boat -- epoxy coat a piece of wood, 
glue the wood to the bottom of the bilge, and screw the switch to the 
wood (or something).

I've got my switch under the engine (I/O) where the water collects.  
Unfortunately this is a bitch to access, pretty much impossible without
taking the engine out.  Worse is that my switch is shot, when it turns
on, it doesn't turn off when all the water is gone.  The float mechanism
must be broken.  So I've got it disconnected and must make sure it doesn't
get filled up to high with water (keep it covered).

tim

    For mounting your pump and switch, use 3M-5200. You can apply
    this to the glass, whether its wet or dry. (nice). Don't put
    anything under the switch, you always have that much more water
    in there. If you have to remove either, just take a razor knife
    to the edges, and up it comes. The 5200 will dry underwater
    so don't be concerned.  The nice part about using this stuff
    is you can put them anywhere. The other advantage, here is
    its ready to be used immediately, the 5200 will hold it in
    place (in this application) If you use expxy, you'll have
    to have a dry bilge.  
    
    Jim.

    where does one get this stuff?  Would a boat place (boat/US, Bliss)
    have it?

    
    re .12  ANY boat supply house will carry this stuff - I have a
    preferance towards Rule equipment.
    
    					Kenny

    I meant the 5200 goop, which looks like the best stuff to attach the
    switch.   But I saw it in an E&B flyer last night so it's around...
    
    BTW, you boat goop experts... In non-marine applications silicone
    rubber is the adhesive of choice for bonds to irregular surfaces where
    removability, water-resilience, and medium strength are required.
    But is seems to be explicitly excluded from below waterline marine use.
    I'm curious as to why?

    My vote is for the atwood combined flot/pump system. They are a nice 
    handy system. The problems you get into with the swith and pump being
    seperate, is that you have to mount both and I have had experiance
    in the past with the float switch being stuck open and burning out the 
    motor. Also, the atwood 400 is very cheap, under 30.00 for the unit.
    Very easy wiring,(3 wires), and a 3 way switch at the dash(on,off,
    auto). I have had an atwood for 8 years, and not one problem to speak
    of. 
    My recommendation for mounting the unit in the bilge, is to mount the 
    bilge on a piece of plywood or plexiglass , and slide the unit
    between the stringers, wedging it so that it is firmly sitted.
    Then you can place a bead of calking if you desire, to hold in place.
    Wire and your all set.
    
    Joe.

    Silicone won't stand up for some reason.  I have and i know other
    folks who have tried to bed hardware above the waterline.
    It just falls apart, and looses its sealing quality.
    
    As for you boat don't fool around with questionable materials,
    the silicone choice is based on price, it won't stand up..
    
    Use the 5200, if you need to remove the item, in your case
    a razor knife will do it.
    
    As for thru-hull fittings, you will need a chisel, believe me..
    
    Jim.

        I have a couple of questions about installing an
        automatic bilge pump switch.
    
        How difficult is it to change a non-automatic (manual)
        one to an automatic one?  How long "should" it take.
        Is it as simple as just splicing the switch in series into 
        the wire going to the existing pump?
    
        Do you need to add a new switch on the dash? (I would perfer
        to not add a new switch).  If I wanted both auto and munual mode,
        not possible with existing switch I would imagine, can I install 
        a second switch somewhere for the auto mode?
        With existing switch I would just have auto? (an option)
    
        I do not know what brand of pump I have now, but can I get whatever
        switch they have at the marine store and use it with any other
        pump?
    
        Where can I get this 3M 5200 adhesive mentioned in previous replys?
        Is there anything better/easier that others have found in the last
        year?
    
        Thanks,
        Mike Smith
    

    
    	Replacing from manual to auto/manual is easy if you mean
    	replacing the whole unit.  Installing a separate float 
    	switch should be just as easy, Probbaly just means 
    	splicing into the circuit like you said.
    
    	(you might want to try those marine crimps with the heat melt
    	 goop inside to seal any moist / wet wire connections ...
    	 of course make sure the area is free from fumes etc that might 
    	 explode and send you looking for a new boat at the very least)
    
    	My auto bilge pump has 3 wires.  All you do is pick the 
    	wire that goes to the float switch vs the one that just
    	goes to the pump motor and run it to your switch.
    
    	Make sure you mark the "on" position ... so you don't leave 
    	the boat with the pump OFF thinking you're safe from rain.
    	A blocked switch might be nice to have so that you can't 
    	turn the pump off w/o doing it on purpose would be nice.
    	
    	Some damn fool hit mine once to the off position and I
    	arrived to a boat with water over the floor ... I give the 
    	person ugly looks every time I see him in the mirror ;-)
    
    	Consider keeping your pump manually switched and simply 
    	connect the auto wire to power so you have on switched
    	and auto too (my pump's auto switch won't drain to the 
    	last drop ... so I use the "on" function).
    
    	btw : consider means make your own choice ... there are
    	probably some reasons NOT to do what I said and I don't
    	wanna get blamed
    	
    			- Ed
    
    	(the ice left Mallets Bay - Lake Champlain Vermont/NY this
    	 afternoon !!!!)  anyone know if Lake Willoughby is open 
    	yet ?

    
    
     If you have two wires now, you need to add a third wire , which oes to
    the "automatic contact on the Auto/Man?off dash switch
    
    
    Wiring diagram
    
    Current (I assume) wiring
                                                       
    +----(fuse)------| |-----------------(pump)-------- Batt Neg - 
    		     switch				 
    
    
    New Wiring:				Indicator lamp (optional)
                               __________________O_______         
                               |                         |
    +---------(fuse)-------| |----------------(pump)-------Battery Neg
    			|   Dash switch(M)  |             
    [A			|    		    |             
    			|		    |	          
    			---| |--------| |---
    
    		  Dash Switch(A)   Float Switch 
    
    You need to :
    1: Relace the current on-off switch with an On-Off_Automatic switch.
    Most of these have a built in fuse holder and indicator light
    
    2: Install the float switch
    
    3. Run a new wire from the New switch to the float switch.
    
    4. Connect the other slide of the float switch to the +side of the pump
    
    5. Solder all connections or use marine terminal blocks 
    
    6. Keep all connections out of contact with water.
    
     I would not recommend wiring up straight automatic. I have had a number
    of float switches go bad over the years, and if they do, you have no
    way of turning on the pump (or of turning it off). The indicator light
     is good also , to tell you if the switch is hung up in the
     "on" position, or , if you are forgetful like me, if you have
     inadvertantly left the pump in the "on", or manual, position.  
    
    
    It's an easy job- just make sure all your connections are tight and out
    of the bilge.

    The indicator light serves anouther purpose.  I will indicate when the
    pump is turning not just powered.  Watch the light when the pump turns
    off.  Such as after you flip the switch to manual the to off.  The
    light does not go out right away.   The amount of time the light is on
    is determined by how long the motor is coasting down.  (The motor
    becomes a generator when the power is removed)  If you get used to the
    amount of time and decay rate of the light.  You can spot problems with
    the pump.  Such as worn bearings, trash in the intake etc.  Open wire
    to pump itself.  All the pump faults I can think of will reduce the amount
    of decay time.  
    
    This is only a crude way of checking if the pump is turning without
    listening or watching the water pump out.    
    
    
    Ken C