Conference vicki::boats

What do I think of the idea? Not much. Jet skis are noisy and obnoxious 
enough at the best of times. If some idiot (not you of course) were to 
use one in a quiet anchorage at night (do the silly things have running 
lights?) someone (like me) might make sure it went adrift before dawn.

signed,

the curmudgeon who rows his dinghy 

    Hi Alan,
    
    I agree that jet skiiers tend to be a damn nuisance. But I tried one
    out in the bahamas a few weeks ago, and the one I was riding was
    incredibly quiet and stable. As for running lights.....well, my dinghy
    doesn't have them either, so I use a hand-held in the night, which is
    hardly ever!
    
    Tally-ho,
    
    Ray

Ray,
That certainly sounds like a good idea and jet skis are definitely
more fun than dinghies.  I've never done this though so the only
advice I can give is to state the obvious.

1) Get a dry riding machine like a Yamaha Wave Runner.  The machines
   where you sit in the water while stopped probably wouldn't be of
   much use as a dinghy.

2) When you find a good spot to untie the jetski, make sure the people 
   you let ride it know the rules of the road and the dangers of close 
   encounters with *real* boats.  Otherwise they could become a statistic
   or even worse yet, get ragged on in this notes conference!  8^)

Rick W.

P.S   Jeff Ceria may have some words of wisdom for you, I think he did
      this with his 33' Cruisers Inc.

    Anybody heard of the NEW MASS. STATE LAW which states that operation
    of a JetSki by anyone under the age of 16 is subject to a non-criminal
    fine of $50.00.?
    
    Now of course this raises the issue of how many JetSki operators
    travel with their birth certificates....and who do you really fine,
    the kids or the parents. I question to what degree this law will
    be enforced. 
    
    /MArk
    

    
    	As a matter of fact there is a new PWC that I spotted in
    one of the boating mags which would be perfect as a dinghy.
    I don't have the ad in front of me, but I believe it's a
    Kawasaki. 
    
    	It's shaped like a paddle boat or a miniature 4Winns deck 
    boat (what the heck is that name of that boat?) with a "normal"
    jetski propulsion system. It carries 3 or 4 passengers and has
    plently of room to throw in the "stuff for the boat" It looks
    like fun for banging around in. (Also good for visiting nearby
    sailboats :-) )
    
    	The ad for it was labeled "Hot Tub".....
    
    Rick

    A friend of mine has two Jet Skiis mounted on the swim platform
    of his 30' Searay. He says it is the only way to go!
    

    Re -.1:
    
    OK, I'll bite. 	1) How does he get 'em on the platform?
    			2) How does he FIT 'em on the platform?
    
    Ray

    
      At ~$3500 for a CHEAP Jetski, I think it's still a LOT more $ than
    a *good* pram, and you'll *still* have problems towing it.
    
   Re - a couple: NH state law says "the driver of a motorboat with an engine of
    greater than 25 HP must be 16 years old or older, unless accompanied
    by an adult". That would probably include ALL jetski-type boats;
    I can't think of one that is *less* than 25 HP. Also, all Jetski-type
    boats are considered *boats* by (at least) Mass. and NH, as such,
    they must be registered, and carry all CG required equipment.
    
    					Kenny
    

    Re -.1:
    
    But I don't want a pram!!??

    Just saw an ad in the May issue of BOATING magazine, page 175, in
    the boating classified section selling a device to bring along your
    waverunner or jet ski. It attaches to the transom. It is sold by:
    
    Bennett Marine Products
    2919E N. Military Tr.
    West Palm Beach, Florida 33409
    Tel 407-863-9400
    

    In Vermont, you can't operate a personal watercraft before sunrise or
    after sunset.
    
    In any waters under USCG jurisdiction, you can't run a power vessel
    before sunrise or after sunset without running lights.
    
    Period.

    
    
>>    In Vermont, you can't operate a personal watercraft before sunrise or
>>    after sunset.
  
    I have read this for MASS as well, and I thought I saw the same
    restriction for NH - but I can't find it.
      
>>    In any waters under USCG jurisdiction, you can't run a power vessel
>>    before sunrise or after sunset without running lights.

    Correction: You can't use *ANY* vessel at night without lights - that
    includes sailboats(under sail or power) and even rowboats!

    
    					Kenny
    
    BTW - that mounting kit for a jetski to a transom sounds nice (if
    	you decide to get a jetski)

    >> Correction: You can't use *ANY* vessel at night without lights - that
    >> includes sailboats(under sail or power) and even rowboats!
    
    Corrected correction:  a row boat need only have a flashlight, which is
    to be used to alert other boats approaching you that you exist. 
    Running lights are not required. (not sure if this applies to very
    small sail boats or not...what an opportunity for someone to make a
    correction�!)  This rule is rather practical for dingies and very small
    fishing boats...
    
    I couldn't resist! :-)
    
    Jeff
                    

    From memory....for small boats, powered or unpowered, only an
    omnidirectional white light is required. I can't remember the size
    limit, but 21' seems to come to mind. Time for someone to look into
    Chapman's....
    
    Anyway, the bottom line appears to be that a hand-held light would do
    the job for a dinghy, JetSki, etc.
    Ray

    
    
    The rules for lights are:
    
    ALL motorboats, sailboats under power, all sailboats over 22' even
    	if NOT under power:
    			Full running lights (exact # of lights depend on
    						the size of the boat)
    
    Sailboats under 22' (not under power), rowboats, canoes, all other
    	small UNPOWERED boats:
    				one white light visible for 360 degrees

    
    					Kenny

    Yes, but back to the topic of this note, I can hardly see how lighting
    arrangements for powered boats of over 22' relates. What we are looking
    for is the legal requirement for boats of, probably, around 8' to 15'.
    
    Ray

    
    
>>        The rules for lights are:
    
>>    ALL motorboats, sailboats under power, all sailboats over 22' even
>>    	if NOT under power:

    
      Please read carefully
    
    					Kenny

    I used to have a jetski that I kept on the back of my 24' Bayliner.
    I kept it tied the the swim platform,  I use to pull it on the platform
    and push it off. By the end of one season the platform was getting a
    little mushy, then again it was a Bayliner. Another disadvantage is
    that your boat will plane a little slower with an extra 300+ lbs.
    hanging off the back off the boat.
    
    AS far as jetski's making to much noise for someone! GET EAR PLUGS!
    Jetski owners have been getting BONED by state laws and people
    complaining of the noise and reckless operation by a few. When a driver
    of a car kills somebody cause he was drunk or just reckless do we ban
    CARS?
    
                                  Jeff_who_is_PO's_by_antijetski_laws

re .18:

>>>    AS far as jetski's making to much noise for someone! GET EAR PLUGS!

Set flame on high.

This is the type of arrogant, selfish attitude that will get laws passed 
banning jetskis and other noise polluters. I have a right not to be 
bothered, annoyed, harrassed, etc, by your inconsiderate actions.

Set flame off.

    What about the power boats that you hear coming from 3 miles away.
    Talk about arrogant and selfish? Jetski's should have a right just like
    any other watercraft regardless of noise, I don't like Harley's
    screeming by our house late at night, talk about noise! 
    I have a right to make as much noise as I want till a reasonable time of
    night, thats the law! I hate the sound of oars clanking against the
    side of a aluminum boat! I'll call my senator tonight!
      What good for the goose SHOULD be good for the gander! 
    
                                  JEFF

    Actually....
    
    I can see both sides of the story. I can see peoples point about
    spending a nice quite afternoon on a small lake or pond without the
    noise and comotion of a noisy craft of any sort. Or trying to do some
    bass fishin in a quite cove without the wake of a boat.
    
     On the other hand though, I hate to see a ban for such trivial
    reasons, If a jetski meets the same legal decibel level as for boats
    it shouldn't be banned, I'm sure there is a way to design a quiter
    muffling system for the jetski's.
    
                          Jeff

    
    
     Let's grow up guys- the author of .18 expresses an attitude that is
    on eof thereasons i am in favor of more law enforcement and liscencing
    requirements for all watercraft.  
    
     The reply in .20 that "I can make as much noise as I want" is
    ridiculous and inconsiderate- on top oif that the author is seriously
    mistaken with the comment that he can m,ake as musch noise as he wants.
    
     The number of power boats that "you can hear from three miles away" is
    the excption rather than the rule- 
    
      The more important  issue here is one of the attitude that the
    majority of us can go to Hades if what he wants to do is annoying 
    or aggravating to us.- and making excessive noise IS illegal in most
    states- just poorly enforced.
    
     Fortunately , most boaters seem to be pretty responsible, considerate
    people. Unfortunately a few  irresponsible ones cause enough commotion
    to increase insurance costs and more legislation/restrictions that
    effect us all.
    
     D.............
    
    
    
    Dick
     
    
       
    
     
     

    	Well.... It's interesting how an innocent question about
    a unique dinghy can turn into a fire fight..... And not being
    one to ignore such a thing....

    	I think the point Jeff was trying to make (albeit in an
    abrasive manner) is *not* that everyone can make as much noise
    as they like, but that nothing should be outlawed merely because
    an outspoken minority doesn't like it.

    	Owning a tournament ski boat, this type of legislation concerns
    me also. On many lakes that are plagued by extremely quick boats,
    which really don't belong there the first idea is of a horsepower
    restriction. Most horsepower restrictions would eliminate the lake
    of not only the 70+mph boats, but also the 42mph ski boats. Is that
    fair?

    Rick

    BTW: I believe the number one reason they've used to ban jetskis
    is erosion of the shoreline.

    There's all types off boats out there! And all types of people too.
    Some people like sailboats, some power, some like cruisers, some like
    old mahogany, some like jetski's, I personally like the sound of twin
    big blocks purring away at 110 decibels.
      I have been out bass fishing before in a nice quite cove and have had
    boats towing skiers just about doing circles around us, SHOULD WE BAN
    SKI BOATS? I have seen big cruisers just about swamp smaller boats,
    SHOULD WE BAN CRUISERS? I have seen sailboats cut off other boats
    because they believe they *always* have the right away. Should we ban
    them too.
     The Jetski law is (as far as I am concerned) is in the same catagory
    as the gun laws and abortion laws. Both sides make sense but which one
    of them is really right! Everybody has a right to enjoy life as they
    please without doing harm to somebody else of course.
    
      I am a very considerate and courteous person, If someone asks me to
    be quite or don't do a certain thing that anoys them I'll most likely
    stop if there request is within reason.
    
      Variety is ths spice of life!
    
                                      Jeff
    

    
    
 >    Let's grow up guys- the author of .18 expresses an attitude that is
 >  on eof thereasons i am in favor of more law enforcement and liscencing
 >  requirements for all watercraft.  
 
    I agree with you 101%   ALL WATERCRAFT  Why single out just the little guys!
     
 >   The reply in .20 that "I can make as much noise as I want" is
 >   ridiculous and inconsiderate- on top oif that the author is seriously
 >   mistaken with the comment that he can m,ake as musch noise as he wants.
  
     It's like radios in the workplace. If a rock and roll station is on,
    'It too dang loud!' If something mellow is on, 'It's putting me to sleep'
     If it's country and western, I'll complain. 

         
>     Fortunately , most boaters seem to be pretty responsible, considerate
>    people. Unfortunately a few  irresponsible ones cause enough commotion
>    to increase insurance costs and more legislation/restrictions that
>    effect us all.

  I am probably one of the most considerate person you'll ever meet. (believe  
 it or not). I have had 7 years of boating on Lake Winnipesaukee and have 
 witnessed more irresposible boating than you could ever imagine. All water
 crafts should have the same rights as the next one, you can't be narrow minded 
 and stereotype a certain one catagory. Not every person that ride a motorcycle
 is a bikey. 
    
  It's always easy to pick on the poor guys. It's tough to go after the big boys
they have the money and power to fight back. If some of these old ladys that own 
waterfront property had they're way, we all will be looking for a place to go 
boating.

       BTW: I don't even own a jetski

                                Jeff
    
     
    
       
    
     
     

re .24:

>>> Everybody has a right to enjoy life as they please without doing 
>>> harm to somebody else of course.
    
Exactly. And when people do things (many of which you listed) that harm
or endanger others, then laws are passed that prohibit those actions.
Your rights end when they infringe someone else's rights. Without law
there is anarchy. If you argue for one right to harm others (make
excessive noise, for example) then you should also be arguing that there
should be no laws at all. Do you really want that? Would you prefer no
rules of the road perhaps? You may be considerate of others (though 
quite frankly the tone of what you write tends to imply otherwise), but 
many people aren't. 

>If you argue for one right to harm others (make
>excessive noise, for example) then you should also be arguing that there
>should be no laws at all. Do you really want that? Would you prefer no
  

Give me a break! You totally misinterpreted what I said, that I'm against 
boating laws because I believe banning jetski's due to excessive noise is  
stupid. Did you ever think about a way to make them quiter or just the easy 
way of just getting them off your back by banning them. How many people do you 
know that went deaf due to excessive noise of a jetski? Don't you think there 
are other boating issues that deserve more attention? I hope so! 
What are the real reason's to ban jetski's? To give sailors more space?

                                        Jeff

    This issue has generated more heat and polarized people like no other I
    have ever seen, probably with just cause (where there is smoke there is
    fire or, in this case, where there is a continuous high pitch drone
    there is a jet ski.)
    
    Unfortunately most people are focusing on one issue (noise) and not on 
    the others that are at least equal in importance - safety and impact on
    the environment.
    
    I live on a lake and have lost count of the number of times I have seen
    jetskis come between kids swimming in the lake and the shoreline. It is
    easy to say that there a "ratbags" in or on every class of boat however
    by far the most instances of this type of foolishness I have seen have
    involved jetskis. I have also seen out-of-control jetskis (that are
    supposed to go in a circle around their downed rider) set out for parts
    unknown (just missing the end of my dock in one instance.) In my
    opinion ANY craft, powered or otherwise, that is under way without a
    rider or crew of any sort, is an accident waiting to happen.
    
    As far as the environment is concerned, last summer I watched a rider
    beach his jetski and tip it upside down to service it, thereby spilling 
    most of his gas tank into the lake.
    
    I don't like restictive laws any more than anyone else however, as long
    as there are people out there who demand and exercise their "freedom"
    without accepting any responsibility for the impact of their actions on
    others, we will see more and more of them. It's what comes of living in
    a civilized society. 

    By the way, while Rick Suter is to be commended for trying to get some
    objectivity (and less heat) into the discussion I believe that the 
    volume of traffic on this issue in this and other notes indicates much 
    more than an "outspoken minority". Maybe we should have a poll???
    
    Maybe we wont have to worry about this issue much longer, at least in
    Taxachussetts. If they keep adding to the already high cost of owning
    a boat maybe they'll all disappear. I for one will be selling mine and 
    substituting a couple of weeks each year in the Virgins, Florida, et
    al. 
    
    
    

    I think I've accidentally created a monster!
    
    Back to the subject, I was investigating how to mount/tow a JetSki. For
    those of you who have automatically jumped to the conclusion that I
    must be a yobbo, by the way: I'm investigating this option because
    JetSkis look like a rather nice, smaller, reliable alternative to a
    dinghy, not to scream around like a bloody maniac cutting the heads off
    children swimmers.
    
    Ray

    Might as well,
    
    My only comment here, this note has the same symptoms of other
    heated conversations, like the gun law, and other bannings.
    
    The jet ski, and the gun don't do the damage, their owners
    are responsible. More laws won't help, its their enforcement
    that sets an example, and the word gets around.
    
    As for the jet ski as a dinghy, i think you'd have more fun
    with an inflatable. They are very stable, at speed they don't
    create a large wake, hardly any at all, and if you need
    a life boat, they are almost impossible to sink.
    
    Jim.
    
    

>>>    As for the jet ski as a dinghy, i think you'd have more fun
>>>    with an inflatable. They are very stable, at speed they don't
>>>    create a large wake, hardly any at all, and if you need
>>>    a life boat, they are almost impossible to sink.
    
Good point here about the value of an inflatable dinghy as a liferaft. 
If your (.0) boating is on the ocean, a means of staying afloat in 
almost any weather if your boat sinks may save your life. The SAR 
reports in NE Offshore all too often report the abrupt sinkings (within 
a few minutes) of both yachts and commercial vessels from fire, bad
weather, hitting things, etc. An inflatable dinghy is not a substitute 
for a real liferaft (expensive both to buy and maintain), but it is 
certainly better than swimming. And an inflatable dinghy is certainly 
more seaworthy than a jetski. 

    Thank you .31 for a level headed approach to life.
    
    Deal with the individual, not the object.
    
    I have a kid that runs his Camaro Z-28 (full blown classic) in my
    neighborhood.  As long as we have people like that, I think we
    should ban cars.  Don't I sound like an a$$-hole?
    
    /brett

    I'd like to add that I've seen too many people get wet just trying to
    get onto a jet-ski and having it roll over on them. If you prefer to
    stay dry, don't get the jet-ski. If you like to get wet while
    retrieving  your boat, then swim and invest the $$$ into other things!
    
    Mike

    A Kawasaki Jet-Ski (as opposed to similar personal watercraft) is set
    up such that the rider, by definition, gets wet (would those who are
    good enough to get on and off from a dock remaining dry please refrain
    from arguing this fine point...).
    
    You can't stand or (there are no provisions for sitting) on the
    thing unless it is underway; getting it underway entails wallowing in
    the water.
    
    In regards to its practicality as a dink, I think we have covered the
    essentials.
    
    o it's illegal to run at night
    o you ARE going to be wet
    o you can't carry much if anything.
    o it's a one person craft
    
    J