Conference vicki::boats

    
    RE: Denise
    
    	The only prop guard I've heard of is one a trailer, which
    protects the prop when driving down the road. These are generally
    found on trailers for inboard boats and some get quite frequent 
    use (Hi Doug)....
    
    	The trick to not being hit by the prop is common sense safety...
    On an I/O or outboard always shut off the engine(s) when a person
    is boarding. On any boat try and approach the downed skier from
    the driver's side of the boat.. to name a few....
    
    Come_on_spring!!!!
    
    Rick

    I saw this very same question in the "tech questions" section
    of a boat magazine recently.  Their answer was that prop guards
    are available for small, low speed/low horsepower fishing type
    boats only.  There ain't no such thing as a prop guard for your
    Stingray for a number of reasons.  The ones I can remember:
    
    - Too much drag.  Pushing a prop guard through the water at
      40+ mph would take an enormous amount of h.p.
    
    - The turbulence caused by the guard would cause prop cavitation.
      You need smooth, solid water for the prop to get a good "grip" 
      on the water.   
                   
    In short, the negatives outweigh the benefits.  Just be sure
    to turn the motor off when there are people in the water near
    the stern of the boat and you should never have a problem.
                                              
    Rick

    One other thing I'd like to mention .
    Whenever approching a person in the water, allways make the approch
    downwind of the person. That way the boat does not get blown over the
    person.
    
    Allways shutdown the engine with it still in gear. Otherwise the prop
    will keep spinning even though the engine is off.
    
    I like the orange flag idea. Never heard of it before?
    
                                    Walt
    

re          <<< Note 592.2 by NRADM::WILSON "Bo knows water skiing?" >>>
>                        -< A good idea in theory only >-
    
>    - Too much drag.  Pushing a prop guard through the water at
>      40+ mph would take an enormous amount of h.p.
    
>    - The turbulence caused by the guard would cause prop cavitation.
>      You need smooth, solid water for the prop to get a good "grip" 
>      on the water.   
                   

	Bahh, isn't there some way of putting it in a tunnel ?

	Maybe not. 


re .0, .1

	Right !   and try to get some good instruction in handling the 
boat around skiers.  It isn't easy to admit this, but I've actually
scratched skis that my daughter was  STILL IN  with a rotating prop -
thats as close as I ever want to come to slicing someone else up. 

	R

    I've seen these prop guards in the underwater shots of boats on the
    show "Flipper". (Didn't Porter Ricks have 2 on his Wellcraft?) :^)
    Never seen 'em in real life..
    
    The prop guards on trailers work well; Mine is pretty banged up. :) :)
    
    Yo Rick:  *ANY* boat (including inboards) should be shut off when
    people are boarding or near the stern. (been meaning to talk to you
    'bout that...The fumes are terrible :^)  (besides more serious reasons)
    Doug

    Seems to me I recall seeing some pictures of prop guards not too long
    ago.  It could have been in the most recent mailer from Boats/US. 
    I'd double check for you, but I threw it away after a very  quick skim.
    Maybe someone else can help.

> RE: .4
>>> Tunnels
> Lots of boats (mostly inboards) have the prop protected by a tunnel or
> skeg, but that's not what the original question was.  It's about adding 
> some sort guard to cover the prop.  Redesigning his Stingray to include 
> a tunnel and then recessing the engine and drive into the tunnel probably 
> wouldn't be real cost effective!

	I meant something more like a tube, I think it then becomes a 
nozzle drive, or some such.  Bit o' sheet metal bent around something 
like this;  <hand waving>  then some kind of a grille, say 2 inch 
holes, over each end to keep the tootsies out (and the mantas, and 
their tootsies).

re  Doug:   I've noticed that you keep your boat in gear and turn the 
		engine off when picking up a skier, even me.  I hereby
		DO resolve to make it a new season habit (and I'll try
		to work on our friend to get him to do likewise (-: ) 


	R	{and I'm gonna steal most of Rick Wilson's old 
			personal name sometime early next week  HaH ! }

The most recent Boat/US flyer had a discussion of propeller guards. As 
previously mentioned, the drag is horrendous at high speeds and fuel 
consumption increases greatly. However, commercial lobstermen and many 
commercial fishing boats have cages around their propellers to keep lines 
and nets from fouling. Of course, they're low speed craft and the drag is 
acceptable for them. 

    Actually, I also read the Boat US article on Prop guards. I'm not sure
    that drag was terribly bad and the point of the interest is that if
    prop guards were mandatory, they would save a LARGE number of lives
    each year. Also a lot of dinged props.
    
    You have to be careful how you interpret what you read. For example,
    the biggest lobby against prop guards is: YES you guessed it, the
    PROPELLER MANUFACTURERS!!! Obviously, for every person props chew up,
    they get a new propeller sale out of it.......but the buggers have
    absolutely no right to be lobbying. I bet Boat US are influenced by
    their views, and therefore you are, too.
    
    I'd like to see unbiased tests, by UL or some independent group, on
    performance and safety, before making decisions and I would expect Boat
    US to do so too.
    
    The other issue is the destruction of manatees by propeller damage 
    in Florida, I'd have thought it to be an excellent reason to make
    guards mandatory on those rivers.
    
    Yes, guards will produce drag and therefore detract from performance
    and increase fuel consumption.
    
    But they would save lives (for certain). They would save manatees,
    probably the entire species.
    
    Of course, there is the experienced boater lobby; those people who say
    that they would NEVER approach a skiier, etc., without turning off
    their engine. I agree with that, by the way. If the engine is running,
    then the prop MAY be turning. It's incredibly easy to accidentally
    knock the gear lever, or for it not to be fully off and "click" into
    gear by itself, or simple error to occur.
    
    Anyway, the whole issue is not as simple as the Boat US article would
    have us believe.
    
    My personal vote is:
    
    Prop guards in certain waterways to protect endangered species.
    
    Prop guards easily available for fishermen and those who have no need
    for performance, with reduced insurance rates for users.
    
    Mandatory boating lessons/exam to teach the 95% of the boaters who
    really don't understand the simplest rules, then they shouldn't need
    prop guards.
    
    Tally-ho!
    
    Ray
    
    
    

    Thanks for all the replies.
    
    Most of you who responded assumed the scenario of picking up a skier.
    I hadn't envisioned that when I wrote the base note.  Obviously anyone
    who doesn't turn off the engine when picking up a skier ought not to 
    be driving a boat.  We all try to be extremely safety concious.  I was
    thinking about an extra saftey precaution for situations that may be
    beyond our control (one serious injury that I am aware of occurred when
    a boat was forced to turn suddenly, a man was thrown out and hit by the 
    prop).
    
    I agree with .9 that there are some situations where prop guards can
    and should be used.
    
    Denise
    
          

re                         <<< Note 592.10 by CVG::CARR >>>

>    I hadn't envisioned that when I wrote the base note.  Obviously anyone
>    who doesn't turn off the engine when picking up a skier ought not to 
>    be driving a boat.  We all try to be extremely safety concious.  I was

	Oooooo_eeeeiiiii !  Tell 'em !


	R	{still not good at swinging the stern (and its
		swim/boarding platform) around to the skier with the
		engine off} 

                             
    Re:-1  
    
    Not too long ago a fellow was thrown out of his boat and 
    run over (Boston Whaler)......if there was a prop
    guard on the boat he would have both legs today.
    
    I've found that a lot of tournament boat owners have that
    awful habit of leaving the boat running (in neutral) while
    the skier boards the platform.
    
    There isn't a whole lot of danger in doing this because
    of where the propellor is situated, right?!  Most boats
    have the propellor/s directly at the stern, while the
    tournament boats have the prop sort of under the
    middle of the boat or slightly back from center.
    
    I read too many Stephen King novels so I prefer the engine
    shut off....no matter what the boat.   :>)  Right Doug,
    those fumes are yucko!
    
    These prop guards sound like a great thing, let's hope
    they can design something in the future that will work
    on every boat.
    
    jd/
 

re                 <<< Note 592.12 by DONVAN::DECAROLIS "Jeanne" >>>
>                           -< We *NEED* prop guards >-
    
>    There isn't a whole lot of danger in doing this because
>    of where the propellor is situated, right?!  Most boats
>    have the propellor/s directly at the stern, while the
>    tournament boats have the prop sort of under the
>    middle of the boat or slightly back from center.

	Yes, its not  "STICKING RIGHT OUT THERE"  the way it is with 
an I/O or an out board - an outboard also gives a swimmer or skier a 
clearer idea of where the prop is than an I/O does, so it might be 
easier for the swimmer/skier to avoid despite the driver's problem.  
There's still no excuse for the driver's problem, responsible for the 
safety of the ship and all who whatever in her, etc.
An I/O can be almost anywhere from the swimmer's viewpoint, especially 
if it has been tilted up a bit for shallow water, and of course the 
biggest part of the out-jutting is under water.  UGLY !   Also, some 
I/Os can pop into gear, if the cable adjustment is marginal, as the 
unit is tilted up.  UGLIER !

	I havn't seen any prop guard designs, but imagine them to be 
either full cages like weed guards on trolling motors, or a few fairly 
thick bars running beside and under the prop - ending 6 or 8 inches 
behind the prop.  I'm sure low drag guards could be designed;  
cheap, strong, low drag  -  pick any two.

	R

Re: Orange/Red flags

Skier down flags are mandatory here in New Mexico.

Rob

    Skier down flags are common in Washington State.  Not sure if required.