Conference vicki::boats

    I'll second the call for an answer to this. I've also tried buffing
    or rubbing compound and even attempted to wax afterwards, to no
    avail.....
    
    Looking for the magic cure!
    
    Ray

    ARE YOU GUYS LUCKY, I WAS KILLING MYSELF DOING THE SAME THING,
    UNTIL I FOUND THIS STUFF CALLED "ON/OFF" ITS AN ACID BASED
    PRODUCT, THAT WILL REMOVE THE OXIDATION FROM YOUR FIBERGLASS
    HULL. BEST TO PUT IT ON WITH AN OLD SPONGE TYPE KITCHEN
    MOP, LEAVE IT ON FOR 5 MINUTES, AND HOSE IT OFF. YOU CAN DO IT 
    AGAIN IF YOU LIKE, THE BEST THING FOR UV PROTECTION IS THE 
    SILICONE BASED POLISHES, STAR BRITE OR NU-FINISH IS QUITE
    GOOD, YOU WIPE THEM ON AND WIPE THEM OFF. NO RUBBING NO BUFFING,
    I RECENTLY FOUND OUT THAT WAX TYPES DO NOT PROTECT AGIANST 
    UV.
    
    
    HAPPY NOT KILLING YOURSELF,
    
    JIM.
    

    I was just going to write a similar note.  My hull is very old and
    is quite discolored.  I have also tried compounds and a product
    called GEL-GLOSS with little or no results.  When I first purchased
    the boat I tried an acid product with a scrub brush and it did nothing
    either.  I believe the main purpose of the product I used was to
    remove salt residue and barnicles neither of which did I have.
    Does ON/OFF really bring back a shine or is it an expensive product
    that I will just flush onto my driveway.  
    How about GEL-COAT.  Is this something I can do myself without 
    much difficulty nor expense??  I was almost going to buy or rent
    a buffer but I don't want to bother if the compound will not help.
    Any advise would be appreciated.
    
    Colin
    

    I have an '82 glass boat with brown sides. For two years I kept
    it in the water facing North---now the port side and transome are
    ALWAYS chalked. The harder I rub, the more it chalks. I even had
    a nephew who does auto body work rub it out---lasted two months
    at most. I'll look for the "ON/OFF" and give it a try.
    
    I also saw something in a Marine Discount rag sheet last night called
    "Color Restore" that is supposed to do the job. Anyone have experience
    with it??
    
    Get Rubbing !!
    
    Don

    THERE IS ONE DISADVANTAGE OF GEL COAT, UNFORTUNATELY ITS LIFE
    EXPECTANCY IS ABOUT 10 YEARS. SOUNDS LIKE YOUR BOAT IS OLDER 
    THAN THAT. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, NOT SEEING IT THAT THE ACID
    I REFERRED TO EARLIER WOULD NOT WORK. ITS FOR A GEL COAT WITH
    MILD OXIDATION (ONE THATS BEEN REASONABLY TAKEN CARE OF)
    NOT HEAVY OXIDATION. IF THE BOAT IS IN GOOD STRUCTURAL
    CONDITION, YOU COULD USE NO. 600 WET/DRY SANDPAPER,
    AND THEN HAVE SOMEONE SHOOT THE HULL FOR YOU. THE OBVIOUS STANDS
    OUT, IS IT FOR WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT, WORTH HAVING IT DONE.
    
    
    JIM.

    There is a new product out called 303....It is a liquid that comes in a
    spray bottle...I understand it was developed under a NASA project..
    Anyway you simply spray it on, wait a few minutes and wipe it off..The
    shine returns..A friend used it on his unit just befor he put it away
    for the winter. He had the same "Chalk problem"..It looked great then
    and looked super this spring when he put it back in the water..It
    appears to be super stuff..

    303,  where can you get it and what is the cost?????  Do you think
    it would work on my old hull????
    
    I live in the Worcester area of Mass.

All that an acid based spray on/wipe off solution can do is remove 
the crud to expose the shiny gelcoat surface beneath.  It cannot
be expected to create a nice shiny gelcoat surface where there is
none.  Once the gelcoat deteriorates to the point that it becomes
dull, chalky and porous it can never be made to look just like new.
You'd be wealthy if you could invent a product that would do that,
the only one I currently know of is called paint.

If the acid solution and buffing do not do the trick don't give up 
hope.  A few years ago I found and "restored" an old fiberglass boat
that had been neglected for years in someone's back yard.  The 
gelcoat was dull, faded, chalky, and had a waterline mark that could
not be removed with any cleaner I tried.

What needed to be done was to remove the dead layer of gelcoat at the
surface.  It is a process that takes several steps, each one using
a finer grit of paper or polishing compound until you end up with a
smooth, shiny surface.  The material you start with will be dependent
on how badly the surface is weathered.  Experiment on an inconspicuous
area to find what works best.

For my boat rubbing compound was nowhere near coarse enough to remove 
the dead gelcoat, so I started by wet sanding the hull with 600 grit 
paper.    Some of the really rough areas required 400 grit, followed
up with the 600.  After that I used a coarse rubbing compound, followed
by white polishing compound, and a coat of wax.  When finished it
didn't look new by any means, but a heck of a better than when I started.

Restoring the finish is only half the battle, to keep it looking good
will require frequent polishing and waxing.  Otherwise it will quickly
go back to its original dull, faded appearance.

Hope this helps.

Rick W.

    Rick you have seen my beauty so you know what I am talking about.
    It doesn't look bad when its in the water but then you can't see
    the thing.  I will try your suggestions though.  Even Better I will
    give you directions to my house and you can do it for me.......
    
    Colin
    

RE: 
>>  Even Better I will give you directions to my house and you can
    do it for me.......

Hey thanks Colin, you're a real pal.  You'd really let me do that
for you?  When do we start?    8^)


Rick

    RE: 303 Liquid
    
    I use a product called AP-303 on my airplane to protect it from
    ultraviolet deterioration. Maybe that's the same stuff referred
    to a few replies back, but I never thought of it as a fiberglass
    finish restorer - Hmmm. Either buy a "FLYING" magazine and look
    for an ad, or stop by your local flight shop (e.g. Norwood Airport)
    and see if they carry it. 
    
    Al 

    Forget the 303 it didn't do anything for my boat. What I did try and
    will purchase again is AURI. it was advertised on TV and on of the
    guys in the office bought some. He just had his brandy-new Trans-Am
    clear coated so he couldn't use it,it has an abrasive in it. The side
    of 1986 268 Sundancer has a big Maroon panel on it (not one of Searay's
    better ideas). it get pounded by the Sun and nothing,even hand rubbed
    white compound worked. Along comes this Auri stuff and after three hand
    appilications I will by more. I used it top sides and really freaked
    out when my eletric buffer wouldn't remove it. I thought OH SH__ what
    now. I filled a bucket abuot half way, put in two capfulls of this
    stuff and scrubbed it of. Came up with a great wax job.
    Its a little pricy at 19.95 +3.50 SH for 16oz. They do have other deals
    but I dont have the form with me. Anyway for the cost of this boat I
    dont think its to much to keep it lookin good.
    They take phone/credit orders 1-800-372-8888
    Walt

RE: .12  Auri

It's funny you should mention Auri.  I just saw it advertised on TV this
morning for the first time, up until then I had never heard of it.  The
ad was kind of one of those "But wait, NOW how much would you pay?" sales
pitches, and sounded like another scam to me.

But you've got me convinced Walt, if my boat or truck ever gets that bad
(which is doubtful, I wash & wax so often, right Kenny?) I'll give it a 
try.  The deal on the tube this morning was two bottles of Auri, some 
vinyl protectant, and a Chamois for $29.95.

Rick W.

    
      I *resent* that, Rick. I wash and wax my Jeep at *least* once a
    year! ;^)
    
    				Kenny

    Hi there!  We've had excellent luck with the liquid waxes put out
    by Meguiar [sp].  Their liquid boat waxed have different numbers on
    them for use with differing types of Gel Coats and dirt levels.  
    Go to your local Boat store and check them out.  They put a real
    hard shine on too which lasts for a while.  And the cleaner wax is
    great for touch-up jobs.
    
    John
    

    
    more input:
    
         You might want to try something called liquid crystal. I found it
    at KMART. This stuff goes on and comes off so easy you won't beleive
    it!. I'm hooked on it. It's a polymere product and cost about $15.00
    a can but I bet you'll do 5 boats with it. A little bit goes a long 
    way..
    
    
    good luck..
    
    bob..

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================================================================================
Note 745.0                      faded fiberglass                      No replies
SALEM::JUNG                                           8 lines  25-AUG-1990 09:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What is the solution? I just purchased a 1988 Starcraft. The boat
    is in fantastic condition with the exception that the top rim of
    the fiberglass is just a tad faded. Is there a way to buff this out,
    does it need paint? Anybody out there have any ideas? Thanks in ad-
    vance.                       
    
                                     Jeff,  SALEM::JUNG
                                            Team Starcraft

    re: Liquid Crystal
    
    I just took the advise and tried it.  It does clean the chalk very
    well.  However,  I was expecting a bit more shine to return.  I know
    that the Liquaid Crystal is not expected to repair the gelcoat.  I
    think I was just disappointed that the gelcoat was so bad on my boat.
    
    The stuff does go on and come off real good.  And for the price, I 
    would recommend it for cleaning anytime.  
    

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Note 695.19                  lifespan of fiberglass?                    19 of 20
ROYALT::SANDS                                         9 lines  26-OCT-1990 14:31
                         -< fading blue color...help! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am not sure this is the place to talk about it but I have a question
    about fiberglass. I have a 21' Sea Ray Mid Cabin that is two years old.
    I have waxed it till I was sore and still the blue color (expecially on
    the bow) has dulled terribly. It has only been in fresh water. I
    suspect oxidation because of the sun because those highly exposed areas
    are the worst. I am relatively new to boats and this one is my first.
    Is there anything I can do to bring back the shine and blue color?
    
    Bob

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Note 695.20                  lifespan of fiberglass?                    20 of 20
SALEM::JUNG                                          10 lines  31-OCT-1990 10:04
                        -< Try it, you WILL like it!!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AURI is the answer!!! I just went through the same thing. Can't
    remember the note that discussed this situation, but the moderator
    probably will and move it. Anyway, I just bought a 2 year young
    Starcraft with the same problem. There is an 800 number to call
    and place an order. The stuff works good. Goes on and comes off
    real easy. It did take a couple of applications though. It also 
    worked real well on my cars. 
    
                                  Jeff (Captain)
                                  Team Starcraft

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================================================================================
Note 695.20                  lifespan of fiberglass?                    20 of 20
EXPRES::GILMAN                                        5 lines  31-OCT-1990 16:11
                                   -< Auri >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Try a product called Auri which is advertised on cable TV as an auto
    finish.  As I remember it works very well on faded dull surfaces.
    How do you find the product?  Watch cable TV.... those shows in the
    early AM tend to have 'fantastic product' shows.  If your interested
    I can try and dig out the ordering information.  Jeff

    First off, without seeing the boat, a 2 year old boats gelcoat
    should not be in that bad a shape. Its difficult to understand
    what it looks like.
    
    You can try all you want with the "miracle waxes" and other
    overpriced goods on the market. remember "Caveat Empty".
    
    If you really feel the blue color cannot be restored,
    no of the items mentioned is gonna restore it. 
    
    If your good at it, get some gelcoat and spray it again.
    If not have it done.
    
    A fact, one of the cable TV hosts, who happens to own the
    program and the product is under investigation for false
    claims, i'll leave it up to you to decide who that might 
    be. Although it is fact.
    
    Gelcoat should last about 10 years, before any serious 
    degredation appears...
    
    JIm.

    Jim,
    Normally I'd be inclined to agree with ya on "snake oils" and
    ordering stuff from TV.  But the recommendations for Auri in
    this case are coming from people who have actually tried it.
    
    Also, a friend of mine has tried Auri on his car and said it 
    works great.  Can any of you guy who have tried this stuff 
    give a little more detail on how well (or badly) it works?
    
    Rick W.

    I saw a guy put in on a red sports car, worked great, went on
    real easy, and the same coming off. WHAT a shine.
    But this DAM fool waxes it once a week.
    
    He also owns an 18" Evinrude boat. 1962 vintage. the gelcoat
    if you want to call it that, is pretty bad. (i'll be nice
    here). he used the Auri, it made it look brighter, but
    it didn't make the color "come back" I looked like Faded
    gelcoat that had been waxed.
    
    P.S. the boat is a dark blue.
    
    The year before he used "Penetrol" its a paint additive
    making oil base paints easier to brush on.
    
    He's says next year back to Penetrol.
    
    That's all the expert info for today.
    
    JIm.

    My cousin used Auri on an 18' Baja Islander (apricot metalflake under
    clear,..er oxidized gelcoat) same effect as -1, looked like freshly
    waxed, but not clear again.  He then used somthing called Megapower
    Something-or-other. It made the clear gelcoat clear again (a
    non-abrasive).
    Another cousin refinishes cars for a living and swears by a product
    called Dark Magic (made by The Wax Shop- ADAP item) for removing
    oxidation. Also a non-abrasive.  
    Another product he reccomends is Safe-Cut (mfg unknown) for chemically
    removing oxidation (rather than abrasives) from cars.
    I have no personal experience with any of the above products.
    FWIW
    Doug

    Auri get my vote too. I use it on my motorcycle, boat, etc. It applies
    in a snap and believe it or not but I can sense better performance on
    my boat (2-3 mph) once I've done the bottom.
    
    Don
    

    As an Auri user I have mixed feelings.  It goes on VERY easily....
    one can do a entire car in 45 minutes and have a close to flawless
    finish without alot of rubbing... BUT it doesn't last as long as waxes
    I have tried... the car needs Auri again in a couple of weeks whereas
    the waxes seem to last over a month.  But for ease of application and
    initial appearance the Auri is great.

    Perhaps a longer-lasting wax over the Auri?
    Ray

    I would recommend Mequiar's line. There is a line made especially for
    fiberglass boats. I used it on a 1970 fiberglass boat and it restored
    it to a nice shine. I started out with the rubbing compound, then color
    restorer, then polish/sealer. It was a lot of work but the oldest guess
    I have had as to my boats age after that was 1982. It has been a year
    now and it still looks good and beads up in the rain.
    
    Make sure you use a wax with UV protection to keep it from chaulking
    again. You can find Mequiar's at most marine stores. BOAT US carries it
    also.
     

    Does every boat come with a gel coat??? I can't even remember if my
    boat has one..The color below the hull is still bright and has a nice
    shine. But up on the bow, the blue that faces upwards towards the sun,
    of course is chaulky. I have seen someone else who had a fine grit
    polish that is used in the sheet metal industry, apply it to his boat
    hull and AMAZING! it shined again..Like new. BUT! it didn't last. A few
    weeks went by and back to chaulky. This stuff was black and almost like
    pumice kind of stuff. Is this all gell coat problems we are talking
    about?? I do in fact get the feeling that no wax is going to do
    anything to get it new. I am also getting the feeling that this is the
    way it is and that is it. Reading the notes is difficult to determine
    the before and after of a particular treatment. I did in fact use this
    NUWAX stuff and it worked pretty good but I have the feeling that I can
    kiss the shiny new blue good bye.
    
    Or maybe I'm just depressed because I'm still paying for the boat and
    it is in the rack.
    
    Bob

    I've been in the process of winterizing my boat for the winter.  A friend
    recommended the use of RULE Fiberglass Restorer & Wax followed by
    another product from RULE called Miricle Coat.  Rule Co. makes alot of
    products for the marine industry and they have been around for a long
    time.  No 1-800 number, and no Ginsu knifes if you act within 24 hours
    and place your order.
    
    ....Almost forgot.  These 2 RULE products were applied easily with
    nice results.  I'll be interested to see how it resists the
    accumulation of brown scum near the water line next season.
    
    /MArk

    We have a two season old Wellcraft bowrider (red) which does not have this
    chalky problem yet.  How can we best prevent this?  Sounds like 
    using a wax with UV protection would help.  Can anyone share a success 
    story on how they have prevented their boats from becoming chalky?  
    What type of wax used?  How often to wax? etc.
    
    Funny, when we've asked at the marina, they just say "use any car wax".
    
    Beth.

    I have talked to dealers about this. Their have been replies from there
    is nothing you can do about it to simple waxing. I don't believe the
    simple waxing does it. Maybe some kind of UV protection might I cannot
    verify. Some time take a look as I have, at a bunch of other boats that
    are moored or docked for the season. They all have it to some degree.
    Especially blues, reds, and black. I believe the best way is to cover
    you boat with one of those fitted covers, don't know if they are called
    something special, but they do work the best. In other words keep it
    out of the sun.
    
    
    Bob

    
    re: Keep it out of the sun....
    
    	My Nautique spends all summer moored in the lake and the
    gelcoat nor the interior has faded noticably, BUT the dark blue
    cover is now light blue on the side which faces the sun, while
    the underside is still dark blue.
    
    	I have to agree..... Keep the boat covered, all of it! Has
    anyone seen serious fading on a completely covered boat?
    
    Rick

    Unfortunately, my mooring cover doesn't extend to the waterline.  I
    have a fade mark along/just above the waterline on the port side-the
    side that faces the sun while it floats at the mooring all week.  I
    want to restore this line to the original "dragon red" color and then
    see what precautions I can take to eliminate/minimize "sunburn".
    The rest of the boat is still in pretty good shape..
    Doug

    
    re: >Doug,
    
    	Yeah, that's a strange fade on the Malibu. Your cover isn't
    covering the remaining, unfaded sides of the boat is it? It's
    almost as if the part right near the water is getting extra sun
    from reflection of the water or something.
    
    Rick

RE: Note 363.33  

>> Can anyone share a success story on how they have prevented their 
>> boats from becoming chalky?  
 

I think you've hit upon the key word, which is "prevent".  It seems that
with every faded boat or cleaning product mentioned in this conference,
the restored shine has only been temporary.  The only difference is how 
long it takes before the chalkiness returns and to what degree.

Prevention is the key to keeping your boat shiney and new.  Frequent 
waxing and protection from the elements, especially sunshine will do the
trick.  If you wax more than a couple times a season, use a low or non-
abrasive wax to prevent wearing through the gelcoat.  Waxes intended
for clearcoat automotive finishes are non-abrasive.  You can still use
an abrasive or cleaner-wax a couple times a season to remove any crud
which does appear.

I've also noticed that initial price or quality of the boat seems to have 
little or nothing to do with how a boat looks after a couple years.  That's
determined strictly by the quality of care and maintenance that the boat
sees.  My '89 Sunbird "entry level" boat is waxed frequently and covered
when not in use, and the gelcoat still looks great after 2 full seasons.  
This summer I saw a Cruisers Inc. yacht (big $$$$) that was just a few
years old but was in sorry shape due to neglect, its gelcoat had deteriorated
to the point where it could never be restored to original.

Rick W.

    to quote rick  "snake oils" are not cures. i'm at a slip, with
    boats on both sides. we're 12" apart. so the sides don't
    see sun as much. i put on a coat of polish about every 4-6
    weeks on the topsides. unless you can completely cover
    the boat, or garage it. we got a problem...
    
    JIm.

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================================================================================
Note 804.0                  Advice on Chalk removal?                  No replies
ANGLIN::BASTEN                                       21 lines   7-MAR-1991 13:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello,
    
    It's time start thinking about another (albeit short) 
    season of boating here in the Midwest on Lake Michigan.
    
    Anyway, I noticed that by the end of last season my 25'
    Sea Ray Sorrento was beginning to show the effects of
    the sun and water on the gelcoat portion of the boat just
    above the rubrail.  I made a modest attempt to remove it
    using a couple of standard commercial products without
    success.  The boat has received 1 coat of wax per season
    since it was purchased in 1988 if this makes a difference.
    
    Rather than waste a lot of money on everyone's claim that
    their product is the one for this job, I thought I'd find
    out if anyone out there has any advice or has any experience
    with a proven product.
    
    Mark
    
    I wish I still lived in Huntington Beach, Ca.!  

    Well your in luck.
    
    StarBrite makes a product that will take care of the problem, and 
    "will not" damage the gelcoat. Its actualy toilet bowl cleaner
    that been diluted to the "right" ratio.
    
    A gallon runs around $20. Use it straight, do not dilute it.
    
    The mild acid will take the chaulkeness off, believe you see
    it along the boot stripe tape, no problem, it hoses right off.
    
    If my memeory is any good, they call it "Hull Cleaner"
    
    It also takes off the old wax as well. So you start off
    with a nice clean hull.
    
    JIm.

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Note 864.0                      Bright Boat !!!!                         1 reply
CADSYS::CADSYS::SPADAFORE                            11 lines  18-JUN-1991 14:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HELP........
    
                I have a 21' Grady White that is blue and white in color...
    The main color blue is faded and chaulking....What is the best product
    to use to revitalize the luster and sheen of the paint ?????? It is a 
    glass boat by the way........Any help in this area would be much
    appreciated......Also, does the product have to be a marine product ??
    
    Thanks
    
    John 

    
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================================================================================
Note 864.1                      Bright Boat !!!!                          1 of 1
BTOVT::LAWYER_D                                       5 lines  18-JUN-1991 14:38
                                -< WORKS GOOD >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    STAR BRITE  OR COLOR RESTORE  WORKS GOOD
    
    YOU CAN FIND STAR BRITE AT SOME BOAT DEALERS
    
    COLOR RESTORE CAN BE FOUND IN MOST AUTO PARTS STORES

     You can find answers to ALL your questions in the previous
    42 replies. It might/will get confusing as there are alot of
    different suggestions.
    
     I went with the Auri. It effectively removed some yellowing
    I had around the edges of my fiberglass boat. I can say that
    I have heard alot of good about Starbrite especially when
    comparing the price. 
    
                                     Jeff (Captain)
                                     Team Starcraft

    Moved by moderator...
    (see note 594 also)
    
================================================================================
Note 924.0                 Info needed on refinishing                    1 reply
DZIGN::HAMILTON                                      12 lines  18-OCT-1991 15:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a 1982 Glastron 16' bowrider with a metalflake gold top finish
    and a solid cream color hull finish.  The metalflake is really faded.
    If water splashes on it, the metalflake shines right through so
    I thought I'd try to refinish the top.  I've tried all sorts of
    cleaners, polishers, slicones, waxes, etc. but just doesn't come
    close to putting a shine back on.
    
    Any suggestions ?  I was thinking of spraying on clear laquer, acrylic,
    etc.  Not sure of what type of finish is appropriate for this
    fiberglass topside.  Any one got any recommendations or alternatives
    ?
    

    
    
================================================================================
Note 924.1                 Info needed on refinishing                     1 of 1
ROBOAT::HEBERT "Captain Bligh"                        3 lines  18-OCT-1991 16:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See 363.*, 695.*, and think about 303 Protectant.

Art

    I have a four winns (87) and it has fadded quit a bit also.  I recently
    put some 303 protectant on it and let it sit for a week.  When I
    returned the following weekend,  I put some more on and buffed it out. 
    The shine didn't return to a factory finish,  but the chalk was gone
    and there was a shine.  It's been about 6-7 weeks and it still looks
    good.
    
    I think the trick is leaving it on for a while before you buff it out. 
    A friend of mine put it on for only about 1/2 hour and then buffed it
    out.  The shine only lased about a week.......
    
    Steve
    
    The mfg of 303 advises that you use it every 30 to 60 days as needed. 
    It seems to be pretty acurate.

    Thanks.  It looks like I've got a few choices before I get too serious
    in attempting to apply another clear topcoat.
    
    I have tried Starbrite's Color Restorer to no avail.  I've used
    hull cleaner (forgot the mfg) on the bottom half and it was great.
    It was the only way I could get the "high-level-of-iron-in-the-water"
    crude off the hull but I avoided using it on the metalflake topside.
    I'll also give AURI a try since I just picked some up to try on
    my car.  I paid less than $10 on sale at Consumer Auto Parts (CAP).
    And if that doesn't do it, I've seen the 303 advertised in GOLDBERGS
    and E&B MARINE CATALOGS.
    
    I just took my boat out of the water and parked it in my garage
    to winterize it so I've got some time to try the various products.
    
    However, if I do revert to actually "spray painting" a clear coat,
    does anyone have recommendations on what to use, that is, is there
    a clear "Gelcoat" product I can buy ?  Is it simply clear fiberglass
    resin ?  Clear laquer ?
    
    Ken
    

    
    re: .-1
    >However, if I do revert to actually "spray painting" a clear coat,
    >does anyone have recommendations on what to use, that is, is there
    >a clear "Gelcoat" product I can buy ?  Is it simply clear fiberglass
    >resin ?  Clear laquer ?
    
    	Gee, that's an interesting idea. I wonder what fiberglass resin
    would do for it.... It sure goes on smooth, shiny and relatively
    easy. It would be quite permanent. I wonder what the ratio of shine
    versus cloudiness of the old finish would be???
    
    Rick
    
    	BTW: It goes on with a brush......

    re: -.2
    >However, if I do revert to actually "spray painting" a clear coat,
    >does anyone have recommendations on what to use, that is, is there
    >a clear "Gelcoat" product I can buy ?  Is it simply clear fiberglass
    >resin ?  Clear laquer ?
    
Gee, I dunno....  That chalking is oxidation of the gelcoat, which is a 
non-reversible chemical reaction.  I remember a few fiberglass dinghy 
repairs when I was a kid, including some thin coats for appearance on teh 
rail, that A) it always looked laid on top, and B) as often as not
delaminated within a year or two.  Thermal flexing alone might cause it to
lift. 

The trick, it seems to me, is to get some substance into the gelcoat that 
"wets" out the oxidation, thereby making it translucent at least, and 
maybe fairly transparent.  (Sort of a wet T-shirt effect, if you know what 
I mean.)  And that lasts.  (Not like a T-shirt that dries out.)

At the Newport Sailboat Show this year was an interesting display of a new
product called New Glass, designed specifically for bringing back faded
gelcoats.  Their display was pretty convincing, as they had some very
chalky f.g. canoe sections on which they demonstrated the product -- it
really looked good!  The bad news is that it requires a little elbow grease
to take off the worst of a very chalky surface off with 400-800 grit, but
the product itself is a highly volatile liquid acrylic which soaks in and
dries in 30 min; you apply multiple coats, up to the level of your
patience or a real gloss.  It apparently lasts a full year if applied at
least 4 coats as specified. 

It's the only thing I've seen that really seems to work and can be done by 
an amateur for a reasonable price.  The company claims a quart is enough 
for a 24'-40' (topsides all over, one assumes) and costs $40.  If it 
really works for real, that's cheap for the value.  For more info:
	
			Florida Marine Chemical Corp, Inc.
			88 Riberia St, Suite 110
			St. Augustine, FL 32084
			904-829-3807

John.

    Well, I tried the AURI and wasn't at all happy with the results.  So
    I'm left with hull cleaner and 303 but I'm quite doubtful that it would
    produce the results.  However, after about 3 passes of the Goldberg 
    Marine Catalog I found one item they were selling that addressed my
    problem.  They called it "VC Glaze".  VC may be the mfgr's name because
    there were various products name VC- something or other.  Anyhow, the
    description for VC-Glaze said it was for faded fiberglass.  They
    mentioned all the key words in the short description, ie. metalfake,
    fiberglass, chalky, oxidized, and "gives the permanent wet look back
    again".
    
    I'm going to order it and give it a try.  It only in a 16oz spray can
    for $18.99.  Doesn't say how far it will go.  In the description, it
    did recommend to use rubbing compound first, then apply two coats of
    this stuff.
    
    So this weekend I'm going to order it along with the 303 protectant
    which look good.
    
    Another thing added to the "things to do this fall" list !!
    
    Ken

    I have a Four Winns which got very, very "chalky". After talking  to 
    several people, and trying many, many products, I found a product that
    works superbly. It is Dupont #7 white polishing compound. You can get
    it almost anywhere, its cheap, and I found perfect for removing that
    sun induced haze. Also, after you "dehaze" a boat, keep it covered when
    not in use. The haze will return.
    
    Scott

    Part of my winterization schedule includes removing the marks off the
    hull I made by rubbing up along side w/ the dinghy etc...I use soft
    scrub or Bo-Nami sparingly,...maybe a tad of acetone.
    I follow this with a coat of a product manufactured by Rule called
    FIBERGLASS RESTORER & WAX.  The directions mention that it will clean
    up chalky fiberglass.  My boat sits on a mooring from mid April to
    end of Sept. ...sun beats on it quite abit...
    Rule recommendations following the above product with yet another one
    of their products called MIRACLE COAT.  I've used both products for a
    couple years now...hull comes out lookin nice.   Nothing left to do in
    the Spring but paint the bottom and put 'er over.  The people I've
    recommended these products to, who have used them,  have come back
    to tell me that they worked real well.  I don't know to what extent
    they will bring back the shine of badly chalking fiberglass however...
    Anybody else had experience with these products by Rule?
    
    /MArk

    As a Four Winns owner and also speaking for my wife's father, another
    Four Winns owner of the same vintage craft as mine, 1987, I can say
    that these notes with regard to faded/oxidized gel coat on Four WInns
    boats really help get me angry. I had hazy gelcoat within one year of
    buying the boat. I see many other boats by Four Winns that have badly
    oxidized gelcoat. What *is* going on here? My wife's Dad's boat looks
    like $#!T, since he's got the black white red gelcoat, with the black
    on the topside. That stuff looks anything BUT black after 5 seasons! If
    anyone is split between brands of boat to buy, err to the side of a
    different company, you'll probably have a nicer finish. It seems like
    Four WInns' major short-coming has to be the gelcoat gloss, and to me,
    that's major league trouble. I'm just glad my topside color is white...
    
    Mike
    

Mod's note: I've taken the base note posted by the author, broken it 
            up into several specific questions, and moved each question
            to the appropriate existing topic.   /Rick

================================================================================
Note 999.0               1st boat that belongs to ME...                  1 reply
MR4DEC::FBUTLER                                      54 lines  26-JUN-1992 08:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Well, after hours of pouring over this notes conference, I've
	finally taken the plunge.  A low end plunge, but for me, still
	a plunge.  

	Last night I bought a 1976 Grady White Bowrider hull (model 178)
	that has been stripped (no motor, no carpet, no seats, etc.) I
	specifically chose this route because I enjoy "projects".  The 
	hull came with a Shoreliner trailer that has been rebuilt (new 
	bearings, tires, paint, bearing buddies, lights etc.)  My usage
	will include fishing, both salt and fresh, and family outings.

	So.  Now the fun begins.  It's obvious that the folks that part-
	icipate in this conference have a wealth of knowledge and as you
	can imagine, I have a "wealth" of questions which I will try to
	keep somewhat organized...

	Cosmetics:

	I've spent several years working on various sailboats for/with
	friends.  This hull is somewhat oxidized.  We have used Mcquires
	products in the past and have been pretty satisfied, but if someone
	has a different cut on this, I'm certainly open to suggestions.

	Looking forward your responses, (even from those that think/know 
	I'm nuts)...

	Jim

    This note seems a bit dated but I don't see that anyone has come up
    with a magic cure for old dull fiberglass yet. My hull is a 1977
    however it's been painted with Imron some years back because of
    chalk/fade. The Imron finish isn't chalked but is rather dull. 
    
    I've tried 2 methods of finish restoration, Liquid Glass (non-polish)
    polish and Star Brite's Glass Cote. The Liquid Glass did a very nice
    job. Liquid Glass over Glass Cote came out excellent (a test patch). 

    With the New England boating season rapidly approaching (finally), I am
    getting ready to wax my boat.  For the first time I will be using a
    buffer and I was wondering if anyone has some advice on which is the
    best wax to use.  Also, should I use a 2 step process such as using a
    cleaner wax first, then a wax to protect?  Any advice is appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Glenn

    Assuming glass is glass and it doesn't care whether its on a sail or
    power boat.. Ive been using Collinite products (available at Boat U.S.)
    for 6 years on my 30' sail boat. Looks great, lasts as long as long as
    others Ive seen and even gets me compliments on the looks! I use a 2
    step process, first the fiberglass boat cleaner, then the wax. They
    have both a boat wax and a fleet wax, Ive used the fleet. Available in
    liquid or paste, Ive found the paste lasts a little longer. Lot of work
    but you get what you work for... Oh yeah, I also use a buffer due to
    the large area.

    Can I use paste with a buffer?  I thought I could only use the liquid.
    
    Glenn

    
    
    	You got me.. I use the buffer to apply and remove the cleaner but
    use a cloth the apply the wax and the buffer to buff it out. Since the 
    wax is just a wax (no real cleaners in it...) there is no need to spend
    too much effort applying it.

    I apply paste wax with a buffer all of the time on my 26' Wellcraft.
    
    You need a "wax applicator pad" that's the one that is plastic lined.
    
    I put the wax on the pad with the back of a plastic spoon, just scrape
    a little wax out of the can, and put in on the pad in stripes, trying
    to not leave any big globs. Now just put the buffer to the boat, and add
    more wax to the pad, when you see it starting to go on dry.
    
    It take a little practice, but it sure beats elbow greese.