Conference vicki::boats

    	Wayne,
    
    	Thanks for starting a note on Slalom Skis...I was about 2 hours
    away from starting the same note.
    
    	I too am looking at buying a new slalom ski, and have a few
    in mind. O'Brien - KGX, HO - Extreme,Mach I, Kidder - Pro Tour,
    Redline. My background is in Snow Skiing (since I was 12 years old)
    and I've been to water ski school in Florida (Bill Peterson's School
    with Rick Suter). I'am a recreational skier who wants and easy turning
    ski and not a stiff de-tuned racing ski..
    
    	If you have any of the above skis, or have any info on them
    let me know. Wayne, you're correct, Water Ski Mag does say that
    each ski is perfect for everyone...
    
    							-mike- 

          
    
    I'm surprised that WSKi Magazine would say every ski is perfect
    for everybody because thats' not true at all.  You wouldn't want
    to put a beginner on a Red-Line Graphite, or an O'Brien TRC, its 
    just too much ski for a beginner.
    
    I'm going to purchase my next ski based upon my skiing ability
    (cautiously aggressive)...and I find Overton's and Ski Limited
    helpful in making my decision.  They have Recommended Performance
    Level write-ups for each ski they sell, if you know what type of
    skier you are and what you're looking for, its just a matter of
    deciding how much $$$ you want to spend.
    
    Jeanne
    

    Wayne,
    
    I ski on a Connely HP with double boots (Contour front, HP rear
    - they didn't make a Contour rear at the time). I've been extremely
    happy with it. It feels very smooth, but delivers all the performance
    that I can use, probably more that I'll ever be able to use. My
    skiing partner uses a Redline, again with double boots. I've tried
    it and find it to be more finicky; it feels very strong when skiied
    fast and agressively, but twitchy otherwise. He has likewise used
    my Connely and seems to like it a lot.
    
    The bindings are very confortable. If I were buying it today, I
    would put a Contour on the rear, too. The Contour has much thicker
    rubber to support the ankle. It's a little harder to get into due
    to the thickness, and stiffness, of the rubber, but thats easily
    cured with a little soapy water in a spray bottle (Saves a little
    wear and tear on the leg hair, too!).

RE .2

>>>     I'm surprised that WSKi Magazine would say every ski is perfect
>>>     for everybody because thats' not true at all.  You wouldn't
>>>     want to put a beginner on a Red-Line Graphite, or an O'Brien
>>>     TRC, its just too much ski for a beginner.
        
        I agree with you Jeanne.  That is what makes me so upset with
        WS Mag.  They really aren't much help at all.  Here are a few
        quotes from their comparisons:
        
First, Top of the Line Skis:
        
        HO Extreme:
        	...would be an excellent choice for novice through
        world-class skiers.  (That pretty well covers everybody, doesn't
        it?) :-)

        Basett Graphite 7000:
        	...is well suited for skiers of any and all levels.
        
        Medalist Kevlar Multi-Fibre:
        	...can carry a wide range of skiers, from beginner
        to shortline.
        
        Stinger Pro Trac Graphite:
        	...is capable of taking someone from the beginner stages
        right on up to pro status.
        
        O'brien TRC:
        	...we recommend it for all level skiers, from novice
        right on up through world class.
        
        Taperflex Apex KG440:
        	...can carry a wide range of skiers, from the novice
        right on up through 38 off.
        
        
And now, for the Intermediate Slaloms:
        
        Cypress Gardens Turbo MX:
        	...we recommend it for the novice right on up through
        the advanced competitive skier.
        
        Williams Water-Skis Austrlia Shatterer:
               	We believe that the Shatterer is a good choice for
        the novices through tournament competitors.
        
        Connelly HP:
        	We recommend the High Performance for skiers that like
        a very fast ski and for beginners through shortline slalom
        skiers.  (Aren't 'very fast ski' and 'beginners' contradictory
        terms?)
        
        Stinger Pro Trac Kevlar:
        	We recommend the Pro Trac Kevlar for beginners through
        pros.
        
        O'brien KGX:
        	We recommend the KGX for advanced recreational skiers
        through world record performers.
        
        
        Well, I guess that is enough.  In fairness, they did give a
        few specific tips for setting up and skiing some of the skis,
        but not nearly enough.  And how they can in good conscience
        recommend skis like the Redline, TRC, Concept, and Extreme for
        beginners is beyond me.
        
        /wayne

    Now I'm wondering if I should believe WSki Mag., when they say
    barefootin' is perfectly safe and any good slalomn skier should
    be able to barefoot.
    
    This month's issue features step-by-step (with illustrations) on
    how to place your foot into the curl of the wake, and step out
    of the slalomn....and voila, you will be barefootin'....
    
    Hmmm....guess I'll find out!
    
    Jeanne
    

    Easy for Ron Scarpa maybe. I tried the stepoff method last weekend
    but I wasn't successful. I have done it before using a boom but
    it just doesn't feel right at long-line. (practice, practice,...)
    I think the best way to start (without a boom) is the kneeboard
    method, and better still, if you can get ahold of some shoe-skis,
    try these with the kneeboard to get the feel of it.
    Good Luck,
    Doug.
    (Time for a barefoot file?)

    
    Re: (Time for a barefoot file).....YES!
    
    The kneeboard method does not appeal to me, (did you see how far
    Scarpa's legs' were apart)....No Thank You!  Barefooting off the
    boom is quite different than footin' with 75' feet of rope.
    
    Keep trying!  It supposedly takes two weeks of practice before
    you feel comfortable.  My salvation is I only need to ski at 28/30
    MPH for my body weight, so when I crash it won't hurt!
    
    Jeanne 
    

    RE: .0:  Wayne, I've skied on the HO Extreme and it is FAST!  I
    liked it, but it would take some getting used to.  I ski on an O'Brien
    KGX and love it, but the KGX is a heavier ski than the Extreme and
    you notice this coming off the buoy.  I've never skied on the Connelly.
    FWIW, My brother has an EP Comp 1 which I didn't care for...seems
    that my "bad" side turn is REALLY bad on that ski...maybe it was
    me, but I seemed to buckle at the waist on my bad-side turn...doesn't
    happen on my KGX...very strange.
    
    RE: .1:  Mike, I love my KGX!  I felt no difference between the
    KGX and the TRC (my wallet did, though).  No offense, Doug!  :-)
    Of course, I'm no 38-off skier either... :-)

    RE: .5 & .6:  Jeanne, you really should reconsider the kneeboard
    approach to learning to barefoot.  I found it to be the most forgiving
    way to learn.  Think about it, you "technically" have to barefoot
    on one foot for a second or so while you kick off the other ski.
    Plus, I found that you need to be going faster than you will normally
    'foot in order to smoothly step off.  I have done the slalom ski
    step-off, but not before I learned to cleanly come off a kneeboard.
    Ron Scarpa's photos are quite exaggerated regarding the placing
    of your feet in the water (to illustrate that the wider you have
    your feet the more stable you'll be).  I come off a kneeboard with
    my feet just slightly wider than when I'm on combos.  Of course,
    you could do a deep water start, i.e. hang your feet on the rope
    and tell the driver to "punch it" when your head goes under, ride
    on your butt and stick your feet in when you think you're going
    fast enough... I know Rob "Footer" Curtis starts with a front tumble
    turn, rides on his stomach and pulls himself up and around to the
    sitting position, then puts his feet in and away he goes!  Haven't
    gotten that one down pat yet...although I can tumble turn (yes,
    and get back on my feet) once under way.  Good luck...
    
    					...Roger...

Jeanne:  Absolutely learn to foot from a kneeboard.  Learning to ride
    it sitting down is the hard part, but it puts you in perfect 
    position for footin', and there's less of a chance of falling on
    it than the ski.  Also, I don't think you should kid yourself
    about the pain at the slower speed.  Get ready for some serious
    face plants while you are learning.  You go down really quick while
    footin', no time to brace yourself.
    
    About skis:  Yes the top of the line skis are fast and unless you
    are planing on skiing the course at 36mph you probably don't need
    one, save your money and take a step or two down the line.  But
    knowing that your basic skier will buy too much ski the manufac-
    turers, in the last few years, have made the top skis a little
    more forgiving.  This is probably why they claim these skis are
    ok for novices.  For example, I have an old O'brien Competitor.
    If your weight distribution isn't perfect coming round the bouy
    it will pitch you right out the front.  The newer skis are wider
    in the forbody and won't pitch you out as easily.  My new ski is
    the asymetrical Lapoint Radius, from Master Craft, of course.  It
    is really neat.  I can turn REALLY HARD on my good side now.  And
    on the off side it's real smooth, doesn't do weird things to mess
    you up.
    
    In answer to the original question, you are the one who'll be skiing 
    it, so you decide.  Find a place that will rent them to you, go
    try them all and buy the one that makes you smile, even if it's
    not top of the line.  Then have fun and don't worry bout what every-
    body else thinks.  Besides, last summer at Fort Worth TX. I saw
    Kim Laskoff ski into 38 off on a Kidder Supreme.  This is the Purple
    ladies ski that is suppossed to be an easy riding ski for the not
    so aggressive lady.
    
    Rob
    

    
    
    	A little off the subject, but we did talk about bindings along
    the way.....
    
    	I have never used soap or slime to get into my double highwraps,
    but Saturday with a freshly oiled swim platform I couldn't believe
    how easily my ski went on, since there was a little teak oil on
    my foot.
    
    	I figured soap/slime wouldn't make that big a difference, but
    was I wrong. No more pushing and pulling to get into my ski. 
    
    	The big question. Will the petroleum base of the teak oil 
    damage my bindings? I thought I was onto a great skiing hint
    of "Oiled platform = Easy bindings" but then it occured to 
    me that some types of rubber products don't like oil.

    
    Rick

    Rick,
         Don't use oil.  I think it may damage the binding, but my 
    biggest concern would be slipping out of the binding when you
    don't want to.  The idea of the soap is that it goes away once
    your foot gets wet.  The oil will stay on your foot longer.
    Why buy double wraps if you defeat them?
    
    Rob
    

    Rick...
    
    We use baby powder.  Works great, and like Rob said you want the
    stuff to go away once your foot is in the binding.  Of course for
    you guys with the big bucks you can always call Overton's and buy
    a case of binding slime...$3.95 for 8 oz. ... only for Connelly
    skis, though... :-)
    
    					...Roger...
    

    
    
    	I think I'll goi with the bottle of soapy water in the boat
    since baby powder would give me little (well in my case big)
    white footprints all over the carpet...
    
    Rick

    RE: .-1
    
>>    white footprints all over the carpet...
    
    Since when do you put on your ski while in the boat?  :-)  :-)
    'Tis why swim platforms were invented...or do you weigh that much
    that when you're on the platform your feet are under water!!!!
    [ BIG :-) ] ...
    
    					...Roger...

    
    RE: ...Roger...
    
    	Yes, I put my ski on in the boat then have the driver "Hit it",
    do a flip over the transom and swim platform, then ski away....
    
    	Awesome, huh??  :-) :-) :-)
    
    	Wanna buy a bridge? � Price!
    
    Rick

    Gee, that's really SUPER! Must be a big jolt when the rope pays
    out.

    RE: .16 ... Naw, not for Rick.  He probably skis on so short a line
    that when he comes out of the flip the rope is tight and he's on
    his way.  Come on Rick, whaddya figure, 45 off?  :-)
    
    BTW Rick, how much for that bridge?  :-)
    
    					...Roger...

    
    
    Re: .17    No rope is used for this stunt! I just will the
    boat to pull me!!!  :-)
    
    Even swap... Bridge for a Mustang!
    
    Rick
    
    	This note's really gone to the dogs, huh.? I guess I started
    it!

    re: .18
    
    Wow Rick, just like Wonder Woman and her using telepathy to control
    her invisible plane, right?  :-)  Yeah, I remember when I had my
    first beer, too!  :-)  :-)
    
    OK, to get back on the subject of slalom skis (I think Jeanne asked
    the first question here, but Rick tends to head off on these
    tangents :-) )... I've been hitting the slalom course every chance
    I get and this weekend I tried my rear boot (as opposed to the toe
    plate).  Gawd, I almost killed myself.  Do I have to learn all over
    again?  My weak side turn is terrible with the boot, but terrific
    with the toe!  I can run all 6 at 34mph (got only 4 @36mph...darn!)
    with the toe but I couldn't buy 4 at 30-31mph with the boot!  It
    seems that the ski decelerates MUCH faster with the boot because
    as I lean into the turn my heel comes up, but the boot actually
    seems to force the ski more forward, thus slowing me down faster
    and I usually follow with a face plant.  My timing is completely
    blown away this way.  Any advice (Doug?) from folks who ski the
    course faithfully (and successfully) with double boots?  I thought
    I'd try to make the change to double boots while still at long line
    before I make 6@36 and start to shorten the rope.
    
    					...Roger...
    
    P.S.  I skied on a friend's HO Extreme this weekend...WOW, what
    a fast ski!  Definitely a smooth water ski, though.

    Roger,
    
         I think it's all in your head, I just switched to double
    wraps and my performance didn't suffer.  If anything I have
    more control now.  Just this past weekend I tried a friends
    ski with just a rear toe.  My rear foot was sliding all over
    the place, so I bailed out.  I'd much rather have both boots.
    
    Rob
    

    
    
    Yeah Roger,
    
    	I found double high wraps a great help, as Rob says with
    the open toe my heel was also moving around back there.
    
    Rick

    
    Roger,
    
    I skied on an HO Extreme myself yesterday.....what a great ski!
    It had a cheater on it, so when I "resisted" (notice I didn't
    say pull)...the boat, there wasn't the fear of going into a 
    tail-spin.  It was a little too choppy though to really get going
    on it, maybe next weekend.
    
    I could barely get my foot into the binding, and it was a man's
    size 10....are they always this tight?  There was no way to adjust
    the boot.  Once I got my foot in there was too much room.  
    
    Well, I can't decide if I want a new slalom ski, or a pair of
    tricks :)....
    
    Jeanne
                                                               

    Jeanne, I say pull.  Where'd ya get that resist stuff?
    
    Rob
    

  > the ski is kicking out less. The natural tendancy for you while
  > you're crossing the wake and "resisting" the boat, (nobody uses
  > the term "pull" anymore) <----- !


        See...!  Get with it, Roger!  Pull is out...."resist" is in.

                      :) :) :) :)

Jeanne

    "Resist" is last year's term.
    
    This year's term is "reacts" as in, "For every action there is an
    equal and opposite reaction." 
    
    The terminology seems to be getting scientifically cultured. At least
    Issac Newton's laws are mentioned. 

    Whatever you want to call it, you have to do it hard, consistently,
    and aggressively.  I think I'll call my buddy Bob LaPoint and ask
    him what the "official" buzzword is around the tournament scene. :-)
    
    Good point about the physics of the pull/lean/resistance/whatever.
    The reaction for a good "resist" (action) is a good lead into the
    next bouy.  The reaction for an inconsistent "resist" is a face-plant.
    But, it's what we live for... :-)  Keep on skiing!
    
    					...Roger...

    I purchased a HO Mach 1 April and am extremely happy with.
    The ski is very quick. Be careful of the binding though.
    Heed the warning on the back. I took a good tumble,
    end over end one sunny afternoon and my foot     
    came out of the binding very hard. I was limping for a 
    week. I now use Ivory dishwashing liquid every time I 
    ski with no problems.
    
    I would recommend the ski to intermediate skiers on out.
    
    Mark

    
    	I had the oppportunity to ski an HO Extreme this past
    weekend. Whew, will that take some getting used to! 
    
    	I tried to do a beach start on it and when I applied my weight
    to the ski it wobbled back and forth a few times and then
    just kicked right out from under me.
    
    	When I tried to carve a decent turn I had problems also.
    At first I tried a fairly hard turn that would have been a
    smooth carve on my Kidder, but the Extreme didn't see it that
    way. The ski hooked the turn so fast it almost got away from me.
    I decided to lighten up on the turns. When I tried the easier
    turns, the ski didn't want to turn at all. It did eventually
    turn but I had to force it all the way thru the turn.
    
    	The cheater wing may or may not have had something to do
    with the way the ski handled, but I certainly noticed that it
    was set much higher than mine. While cutting thru the wakes
    it felt like someone had tied the boat mooring to my ski or
    the emergency brake was on.. serious drag!
    
    	All in all.. I'd say that if you took the time to learn
    how to ski the HO Extreme, you could probably make some radical
    moves on it, but it would certainly take some practice. And
    by all means DON'T set the cheater at 7!

    Rick

    Hey Rick, welcome to the world of "tournament-only" water skis!
    Anyone (including HO) who tells me that the Extreme is a good
    recreational ski needs psychiatric attention.  That's a tournament
    level ski if I've ever skied one before!  And it's a calm water ski.
    Choppy water will do you in when trying to ski the course.  It chatters
    like crazy and actually "hums" when skiing flat (if you can keep it
    from wobbling).  You can't "ride" an Extreme, but you certainly
    can "ski" an Extreme!
    
    Now that I've given you all the impression that I don't like the
    ski, let me turn that opinion around.  This past weekend I skied
    the best I've ever skied in the course...6 @ 15-off, 32mph...and
    it was on my cousin's Extreme (a 66" ... I usually ski on a 68"
    KGX)!  I forgot my ski at home so I decided to give his Extreme
    a try.  I tried one back during the summer and found it to be very
    fast and excellent in the turns, provided the water was calm.  We
    decided that since it was close to the end of the season it was
    time to get a little crazy and try some "extreme" skiing (excuse
    the pun).  Since we had just done a few full-line passes we decided
    it was time to try some line-off stuff.  So we took 15' off the
    line.  It took me 3 passes to recalibrate myself for the new line
    length, but finally I "cruised" a 32-mph pass ... just like the
    folks on ESPN!  I was excited.  The guys I was skiing with were
    excited.  It was great!  And it seemed so easy.  But I found that
    you have to do a lot of work to come out of the turn.  It seemed
    that when coming off the buoy this ski wants to stay down (forward)
    and on edge.  You have to pull yourself (with considerable effort
    I might add) out of the turn and get off the front of the ski fast
    or else you're going face-first into the water.  But when you time
    it right...look out!  Hello next bouy, and I mean early!  I had
    to start my preturn much earlier than I've been used to (and probably
    the way I'm supposed to do it...gee I think I learned something).
    But the ski definitely reacts differently than any ski I've been
    on before.  It's not a forgiving ski, but when you do it right,
    the ski carves a mean run through the course.
    
    Now, if only I could do it that way every time... :-)
    
    					...Roger...

	Not to change the subject BUT...

	I am looking for an "older" O'BRIEN Slalom ski.  In particular one of
the last production WOOD ski's.   The model is has was "TORQUE", but there
were also some top of the line COMP models that were good.   If you have
one of these relics (in say around a 74" length) please give me a call.

	Me ole' faithful, recreation, all 'round fun kinda ski was stolen
this year and I am in need of a replacement.  While I like skiing serious
on the new stuff, there is still nothing like a good "plank" under one for
those Sunday morning rec-runs just for fun.

	Any leads appreciated.


	Garry  	(DTN:226-5524)

    
    RE: The HO Extreme
    
       Isn't this the ski that Deena Mapple skis on?  
    
       I had the misfortune of skiing on the Extreme about a month ago.
    The ski had a high-wrap front and an adjustable back.  I can't manage
    a deep water start with both feet in, but I was able to get my back
    foot in by squatting down once I was up, and putting my back foot 
    in from that position.
    
       Well, like you guys said, as soon as I rode through choppy waters
    on a flat ski, it starts to kick out from under me.  Once this happened
    I thought "what is this ski going to do once I cross the wake"?!
    My confidence was shattered, I  got really wimpy on the ski and
    said enough of this!  
    
       I later found out that the HO Extreme has beveled edges, not
    straight cuts like most skis.  The ski is designed for cornering.
    And like you said Roger, "you can't ride the ski"!  And this
    ski didn't hum....it whistled!  Sounded like I was being chased
    by Hurricane Gilbert....
    
    Jeanne                  
    

    RE: .31  Jeanne...
    
    Whatever the noise that comes from this ski, I just know that you
    gotta ski it HARD!  The real bummer for me was after I made the
    15'-off pass at 32 so easily I started thinking about my KGX and
    wondering if I could do the same thing on it...hmm... that'll be
    the first thing on next year's agenda...
    
    And yes, Deena does ski on the Extreme.  But hubby Andy Mapple skis
    on the KGX!  I'm SOOOOOOO confused!  :-)
    
    					...Roger...

    
    	Yeah, that noise while skiing on the Extreme is weird,
    I couldn't figure out what it was at first. 
    
    	About competition skiers skiing on specific skis, wouldn't
    you think that the ski they *choose* is just a matter of who
    sponsors them? Even if Andy liked the HO, O'Brien might be
    a little upset if he stood there for an interview with an
    HO hat and slalom ski. Likewise, you'll NEVER see Sammy 
    Duvall behind the wheel of a Correct Craft!
    
    	I guess we can apply the golden rule here.... "He who
    hath the gold, makes the rules".
    
    Rick

    Just to follow up on those points, Rick, you may have noticed Deena
    using a pair of HO Extreme jump skis this year.  An interesting
    thing I learned is that HO did not make jump skis until sometime
    this summer and will be selling them in their 1989 lineup.  The
    word I heard from an HO rep is that Deena's jump skis were really
    EP jumpers with the graphics redone.  Don't as me how they got away
    with that one, but that's what I heard.
    
    I guess that at the professional level you may be able to ski on
    any ski.  If you're not yet sponsored by some ski company and you
    normally ski on, say, an EP, but then O'Brien Skis approaches you
    and says they want to sponsor you, you can probably make some minor
    adjustments and still run the course on a TRC at 35-off.  I may
    be giving the pros a lot more credit than they deserve, though,
    because I find different skis to ride/ski VERY differently, to the
    point of actually not being able to ski on some.  Granted I'm no
    pro, but I do know that I tried my brother's EP Comp 1 this past
    weekend and couldn't make 2 buoys at full line length, but I made
    that 15-off pass on the Extreme.  I guess technique is a big thing
    when you're playing with the pro's equipment.
    
    					...Roger...

    Hey Roger,
         I personally believe, after having been through these trials
    you're now enduring, that the ski doesn't make any difference. If
    you ski right you'll run 32 mph on any thing.  In my quest for a
    "good" 34 15 off pass, my buddy says here try my 64" Kidder.  And
    by the way keep your head up and shoulders back.  Bang, right
    through the course.  Then back onto my 66" Master Craft, remember
    the head and shoulders and bang, right through again.  Of course
    it was my bad body position causing the problem not the ski.  Also
    when I was in Fort Worth last year Kim Laskoff walked past me
    after she ran a couple at 38 off.  She had one of them cute little
    purple Kidder skis.  You know, the ladies ski that's suppose to be
    a forgiving intermediate ski.  How about that one?
    
    Also, doesn't Andy ski on a TRC?
    
    Rob
    

    
    I agree with Rob,  that if your technique is correct then the ski
    should not make that big of a difference.   I am no expert I draw
    this conclusion from seeing a friend of a guy in my ski club who
    came down to show us what a real skier looks like.
    This guy would start at 36mph and 15 off and fool around jumping
    both wakes as he ran the course on his first run.  He would then
    get serious and get into 22off, then 27? off and then 32? off,
    I believe those are about the right numbers,  I just remember we
    were into the low thirties.  I don't know if many of you have had
    a chance to be in the boat when someone is skiing like this but
    it is quite impressive and they are so close to the back of the
    boat.  It looks like the are going to hit the boat as they cut
    around the bouy back towards the boat. 
    I can only imagine what it is like with the pros.
    
    Now that I've rambelled back to my point,  A guy in the club skis
    on a 10+ year old WOODEN slalom ski,  we are always kidding him
    telling him to buy a real ski.   Well he convinced our guest
    to give it a ride and he ran both 15 and 22 off at 36 mph.
    So much for our expensive modern skis.
    
    My point is that experience and proper technique will allow you
    to exploit any skis strengths and compensate for its weaknesses.
    I only wish that I could do the things that I read and see instead
    of just being able to talk about it.
    
    Mike Smith                                                    
    

    re .the_last_couple   this sounds all too familiar, I've seen and
    been caught up in the  "equipment trap"  in a few other sports.
    Often times one takes a giant step backward by upgrading to new
    ("better") equipment when the time could have been better spent
    practicing form/technique with the old.  A couple of hours practice
    is probably worth a lot more than a couple of hours
    buying/tuning/other_wise setting up new gear at the local pro shop.
    
    	Reg
    
    {now, about that new  "fer_REAL"  ski boat that I  "NEED"...:-^)}
    

    
    Well, I kind of disagree! :>)  For instance, due to racquet technology
    the #1 player of yesteryear (who used a wooden racquet), would not
    stand a chance against today's player (who uses a graphite racquet)
    and can serve at 150+ miles an hour.  
    
    You can't get the same kind of performance with yesterdays' technology.
    And I think this applies to every sport.  
    
    Course, this is at the Pro level, maybe the amateurs don't need
    the latest and greatest.
    

    I do agree with you guys (and somewhat with Jeanne too).  It is
    technique that ultimately gets you through the course or whatever
    you're trying to do.  I guess that when you're learning the equipment
    plays a much more important role than when the technique comes
    "naturally" and all you have to worry about is the ripples in the
    water or if there's a headwind vs. a tailwind.
    
    New advances in technology, including ski composition, edge angles,
    cheaters, etc., certainly help your skiing.  I think it would be
    foolish to think that Andy Mapple could ski 2 @39-1/2 off with an
    old wooden ski.  But I'll bet he could run a 35-off pass, or come
    pretty darn close!
    
    As far as who normally slalom skis on what, here's what I remember:
    
    	Andy Mapple		O'Brien KGX
    	Deena Brush-Mapple	HO Extreme
    	Sammy Duvall		Kidder ??? (Red Line?)
    	Camille Duvall		O'Brien TRC
    	Mike Kjellander		Connelly ??? (HP Graphite?)
        Bob Lapoint		Mastercraft Radius
    	Carl Roberge		Kidder ??? (Red Line?)
    
    					...Roger...

    Andy Mapple  5 @ 39 1/2 off sept 22, 1985 on an O'brien TRC.
    This is (I believe) still the men's world record.

    Re: .40  Yes, 5 @ 39 1/2 off is the world record.  And I'm sure
    you are right, Andy skiis the TRC not the KGX.  Bob Lapoint is
    the coholder of the world record and uses the Lapoint Pulse.
    
    Rob
    

    Doug's right.  Andy does hold the record on a TRC.  I guess I got
    all hyped up about seeing an O'Brien add with him running 35-off
    on a KGX.  There I go again, looking at the ad and not reading the
    caption!
    
    And now for something different...anyone read the ad in this month's
    issue of Water Ski (Sep./Oct.) about the merger between O'Brien
    and Mastercraft Skis?  Yup.  There's a 3-page ad (somewhere around
    page 19 or so) with a nice picture of the "O'Brien Ski Team" including
    folks like Camille Duvall, Jennifer Leachman, and Bob & Kris Lapoint,
    and others.  The text says something about a new ski coming in 1989
    called the "O'Brien Lapoint."  Must be the Pulse or Radius with
    an O'Brien logo.  I wonder which ski will be O'Brien's top-of-the-line
    now.
    
    					...Roger...

    Well, Coleman company, who owns O'brien Skis and Mastercraft Boats,
    can't let an independent company called "Mastercraft Skis" exist;
    Just gotta have 'em! I believe that Camille is now skiing on the
    KGX, even though her records are on the TRC. (Probably by corperate
    direction) But, the TRC has remained UNCHANGED for going on 4 years
    now, it's probably due. (Not that there's anything wrong with it,
    mind you. :^)  )
    Doug.

    Any advice on where (and maybe when?) I will get the best price
    on a Connelly Team 2 (with adjustable bindings). Can't find it in
    SkiLimiteds catalogue. Should I wait till Christmas sales?
    
    Magnus (who can't afford a new wetsuit but will try to squeese(sp?)
            som money out of his wallet to buy a new ski)

    Overton's:
    
    Connelly Team 2 Kevlar Wingtail, adjustable cam lever w/ rear toe
    Retail: 295.00, Overton's reg. 209.95, on sale now for $199.95.
    Order #10131.  1-800-334-6541.
    
    					...Roger...

    re .44	I got mine at Water Skis Plus in Spencer, for $209.  
    If you can wait just a little bit longer you MIGHT be able to get
    one there a little cheaper when they hold their pre-Christmas sale,
    starts right after Thanksgiving.

    	Reg
    

    Thank you guys, it seems like I (and other interested persons) can
    find some advice in note 199 now. Right now it doesn't matter to
    me, I'm broke :-( But I'm not worried, I'm happy :-)
    
    Magnus (Who has been waiting for his Overton's Catalogue for a month
            now, are the employees out skiing or what?)

    Magnus, maybe you should get together with 199.0!  She wants to buy
    a ski for her boyfriend.  Now all you gotta do is figure out a way
    to get rid of the 200+ lb. big guy!  :-)  Just kidding...
    
    I'm surprised you haven't received an Overton's catalog yet.  I
    remember the first time I called for one I received it in 2 days!
    And I've been paying ever since!  Maybe they knew I'd be a good
    customer!  :-)
    
    					...Roger...

     
    They said I wasn't on their mailing list,strange...but now I am
    and the man said it would take a couple of weeks :-(
    Hope he meant a couple of days.
    
    Magnus
    

    I don't want to get rid of "the big guy", but I did call Overton's
    last night because I had requested a catalog a few weeks ago.  They
    checked in their computer and I was listed.  He said it usually
    takes 3 - 4 weeks.
    
    Thanks for all the info you guys have given me!
	/karen

    Karen,
    
    If you'd like to borrow my catalog you're welcome to.  3-4 weeks
    will make for very slim timing around getting what you want in time,
    assuming they have what you want in stock.  'Tis the season!  Let
    me know and I will send you the catalog interoffice mail.
    
    					...Roger...

    Geez, picking out a ski is harder that picking out a boat.
    The boat's on order, so now I have to pick a ski.
    
    I have not h20 skiied for about 10 years, but I used to be pretty
    good, and relativly agressive. My ski at the time was a
    Cypress Gardens "El diablo" woden of course.. And it was real expensive
    about $30. I suppose by todays standards it was an intermediate
    ski? It was pretty hi-tech for those days. It had a concave bottom.
    I suppose that "concave" had to give way to the jazer "hyperparabolic"
    but it all sounds like "rounded" bottom's to me.
    
    Ok, so now what I am looking for is a good ski, that I can ski on
    that will give me pretty good performance, but that is not so HOT
    that my friends can't also use it as they learn to ski.
    
    Am I asking for a ski that covers too broad a range? In my mind
    that would be a ski that goes from intermediate to advanced.
    (my friends would initially learn on probably an inexpensive pair
    of combo skiis.
    
    So what ski's would be good.. Just sitting here wishing through
    the BART's catalog, my eye is caught by the Connely Team 2 wingtail
    Kevlar. But I am concerned that it may be too hot a ski.
    Any one want to sell a used ski?
    
    Comments and suggestions are most welcome.
    
    	sjm

	After reading through this topic (50 + replies) you should have
	a good idea of the ski for you.  Remember to take in account your
	weight and whether or not you like wrap-around boots or slip-ons
	or what.  

	good luck.

	Chuck

RE: .52

I just happen to be flipping through my catalogs so I thought I'd give you the
latest prices on some recreational skis.  Hope this gives you an idea.
Happy shopping!

					...Roger...

Ski			Overton's	Bart's		Ski Limited
-------------------	----------	---------	-----------
EP Targa		$ 184.95 **	$ 189.98	No Listing
O'Brien World Team	$ 169.95	$ 168.98	$ 164.95
Connelly Kevlar Pro	$ 145.95	$ 149.98	$ 144.95
O'Brien Ultra		$ 139.95 *	$ 149.98	No listing


*  Free America's Cup vest
** Free EP vest

    re -1
    
    A bit of the subject, but you may be interested to compare Roger
    price of the O'Brien World Team of US$170 with my local store in
    NZ pirce of approx US$435 at todays exchange rate. Now to note 2
    I guess :-)
    
    jim

            -( They are too cheap to miss !!!!!!!!)-
      re: .54
     hello from downunda ,,
    
    One of our engineers is heading over to the states in 2 weeks. Can
    some one give me the prices of the HO Turbo, Extreme, Mach 1 and
    the name of a good HO dealer in the San Fransico area ?? As you can
    see we are HO freaks in Canberra,,
                  thanks for any assistance & good skiing
                                      ....John & crew....
    

    
    re: John and Crew...
    
    	I don't have the current Ski limited, but last year these were
    the HO prices:
    
    		HO Turbo
    
    			Adj. Plate w/Rear Toe		269.95
    			High Wrap Front w/Toe		279.95
    			High Wrap Front and Rear	329.95
    
    		Mach 1
    			Adj. Plate w/Rear Toe		284.95
    			High Wrap Front w/Toe		299.95
    			High Wrap Front and Rear	349.95
    

    	They didn't list the Extreme in the catalog I have, but you
    could add at least 50 dollars to the Mach 1 prices, maybe more.
    I would guess that these prices would have dropped by at least
    10% since last year.
    
    	I can't help with a ski shop in San Fran, but with a little
    luck you should be able to find one that will at least come close
    if not meet that catalog price.
    
    Rick

    John...
    
    Here's an update from the latest Ski Ltd. catalog:
    
    		HO Turbo
    
    			Adj. Plate w/Rear Toe		259.95
    			High Wrap Front w/Toe		279.95
    			High Wrap Front and Rear	324.95
    
    		Mach 1
    			Adj. Plate w/Rear Toe		279.95
    			High Wrap Front w/Toe		299.95
    			High Wrap Front and Rear	344.95
    
    The Extreme isn't sold through mail order (at least the one's I
    frequent).  You can usually find the Extreme at pro shops and maybe
    some marinas (Mike Seipel had one in his pro shop).  You're probably
    talking better than $400 for the Extreme with front & rear plates.
    
    Don't know anything about the S.F. area.  Sorry.
    
    					...Roger...

    
    Have any of you skiers out there skied on a Connelly Shortline or
    a Connelly HP?
    
    Jeanne
    

	Hi Jeanne,

	I own a Connelly HP, vintage 1985 with Contour plates front
	and rear.  I've enjoyed it!!  (Even though I haven't go much
	use out of it in the last couple seaons. :-) )  If you're thinking
	about buying a new or used one from a more recent era, I can't offer
	you much advice.  The construction has changed in the last
	few years, all though the shape and rocker I believe have
	remained the same.

	The HP I have turns pretty quickly, accelerates out of the turn
	nicely and absorbs the cut through the wakes well.  Deceleration
	is no problem if you work your knees properly.

	The two	skis you mentioned should be good for you.  Have you
	considered any others, or are these what you've narrowed the
	choice down to?

	Whatever you decide to get, your first order of business should be
	to remove the foil from the fin if it has one.  I don't know what
	the folks told you down at ski school, but I believe that you
	shouldn't be using one those until you're almost into shortline.
	Too often they're used as a crutch for poor technique.

	Good luck!!

	-ric!

    Hey Ric,
    
    Yeah, I can't remember seeing you slalomn too much since
    you found your feet  :+).  When I was at ski school this
    spring, the instructor there recommended I leave the
    cheater on....this sounds a lot like the PC vs. MAC argument!
    
    Anyways, recently I've found my Pro Circuit to be a little
    too slow.  I especially noticed this after demoing a friends
    HO Mach I (hi Anne).  I found the HO to be effortless, but
    a little on the light side, as most HO's are.
    
    The Connelly seemed like a good choice.  Tell me, do you ride
    the middle of your ski?  (or has it been too long).  Supposedly,
    this ski is designed for that type of skier.  The Shortline
    is for skiers who tend to ride the back of the ski (a habit
    I'm trying to break).
    
    Jeanne
    

	I was using a Connelly Team 2 (next model DOWN from the 
short-line) until a year ago.  I bought the Pro-Tour O'Brien as soon 
as I found I could come up in double high wrap boots, I've liked the 
Pro-Tour.   A couple of weeks ago the Pro-Tour started to lose its 
flo-pak things from the heel cups, so its in the shop and I've gone to 
the Team 2 for back-up {nice to have back-up skis AND a back-up boat}
Anyway, the Team 2 felt squirrely (too fast ?) the first couple of 
times I was out on it.  Well, you know how I ski - 'nuf said ?
I should get the O'Brien back tonight and might be able to do an A/B 
comparison, if the crew I'm with even  ALLOWS  skis in their boat (-:

	Reg


PS	Did I forget to tell  *_EVERYONE_*  that I made a couple of
	fairly successful footin' runs off the boom B4 work this
	morning ?  -  I'm so modest about these things (-: } 

	 Hi Jeanne,

	I do ride the middle of the ski, on my strong side at least.
	I have a bad habit of  skiing to far back when turning my
	weak side.  I think it's a fairly popular problem.  Anyhow,
	I don't ride the stick often enough anymore to really make
	any improvments.

>>I should get the O'Brien back tonight and might be able to do an A/B 
>>comparison, if the crew I'm with even  ALLOWS  skis in their boat (-:

	:-)

>>	fairly successful footin' runs off the boom B4 work this
>>	morning ?  -  I'm so modest about these things (-: } 

	Reg,

	Glad to hear it!!!  Where are you skiing before work?!  Do you
	have any room in your crew?


	See ya some time,

	-ric.

    Jeanne,
      Check out the Short Line for sale in note #3.985.  Perhaps you could 
    arrange a demo with Greg.. (although 63" might be a little short for
    you)
    
    I got a chance to ski on a '91 O'Brien Synergy-Z when I was in Florida
    last week.  (Don't ask-it was a *business* trip and I had *no* time for
    fun, and it *rained* ALL week)  The ski was excellent-except I'm $400
    bucks short and 8 months away from a birthday present.  :^(
    
    Doug

    Thanks Doug, will check it out.  Is the Synergy-Z really
    a TRC in disquise?  The Connelly Concept is also $400,
    I'm only 6 months away from my birthday!  :>)
    
    Hey Reg, good going!  And just think, you didn't have
    to spend $100.00 to learn how to barefoot (like I did).
    
    Jeanne
    

    Jeanne,
      Yup, the Synergy-Z is a stiffer TRC (Titanium Reinforced Core)
    without the titanium, has better boots, adjustable fin, different
    graphics, and a fatter price-tag.  Other than that, it remains
    unchanged. :^)  
    
    Actually, they are using the same molds as the old TRC so bevels,
    tunnel, etc remains the same.  But due to the stiffness, it's alot
    faster across the wakes.  (I had a real hard time slowing it down)
    
    I WANT ONE!
    
    Doug

Jeanne (and others)... my ski buddy in R.I. is supposed to become a rep for
O'Brien (matter of fact, they're supposed to be sending him to Seattle this
weekend for training).  If this all pans out, I will have a connection into
the O'Brien world (I sorta have one now, but he should be even better!).  So,
if you're not in a really big hurry, I'll check out what his "inside" prices
will be.  Heck, I picked up a "slightly used" TRC from him last year for $100
(it was a blank, but hey, for $100...).  I'll keep ya posted.

RE: Reg... good show, ol' chap!  Glad to see ya gettin' out there with the Bad
Boys.  So where are you skiin' in the wee hours?  Or is this gonna be a
well-kept secret?  :-)  I could be persuaded to leave for work earlier, and
detour to <insert name of lake here>.  I used to ski at 5:30 a.m. with the boys
on Quinsig!

...Roger...

    Hey Rog,
      Tell Kyle to reserve a 66" Synergy Z for me!  (No hurry, a demo with
    a few dings will be more than acceptable.)  The TRC that he sold my
    cousin (for $125-only skiied on in a few tournements :) is being well used
    and just got a rear toe plate - for those flying dock starts.  The same
    cousin (Dan) went to make a offer yesterday on a '90 Mastercraft!  I'm
    so excited!!  Adding another Skiboat to the family fleet!!!  (Boy am I
    gonna save some gas this year :^) )  His mother liked it 'cause it's
    yellow and will match the beach furniture.  :^o
    Doug
    ...and now back to slalom skis.....
    

          
    Well Rog...I couldn't wait!  :>)  Ski Limited delivered
    the Connelly HP graphite to my door in 24 hours, and after
    demoeing the ski, I'm happy with it. 
    
    I may take the cheater off next time to see what it feels
    like.  The bindings on the Connelly are mounted 1" further up
    on the ski than the O'Brien.  The first few runs I took on
    this ski was on very glassy conditions (early Saturday a.m.),
    so I found out just how responsive the ski is.  (and it is,
    and I crashed)!  :>)
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    Good luck with your new "stick" Jeanne.  Now to get you into a slalom
    course - I want to find out just how LOUD it is when you hit the balls.
    :^)  :^)  (or does that have something to do with tennis?)
    
    Doug

    
    "hit the ball as LOUD as U can"....yep, it's a tennis
    slogan, stolen from Nike's Agassi and Red Hot Chile
    Peppers ad, "Rock and Roll Tennis"...but I'm sure it
    could apply to Mike Hjellander's style of slalomn!
    
    Jeanne
    
    

	I tried to ask this last thursday, maybe I didn't understand 
the answer, maybe I didn't ask it the right way.

	O'Brien is now advertising three versions of what used to be 
the TRC; for skiers with their weight forward, centre and back.

	The question is,  "what should a novice be striving for and why ?"
	
	Is there any such thing as ideal form ?


	I accept that an intermediate or advanced skier has a style 
and should be picking a ski to match it - but which style should the 
novice be striving for ?

	Reg

BTW, the old TRC is now described as being suited to a weight back 
skier.

.72>>  The question is,  "what should a novice be striving for and why ?"

IMHO, the answer is clearly the "center" (or "centre" for you guys from across
the pond :-)) of the ski.  What the mfg's are doing is accomodating those who
have trouble adjusting to "truly perfect form" (see below) and giving them a
choice of skis which tolerate their style.  By "tolerate" I mean the ski tapers
(gets wider closer to the tail, for example) differently at various points along
the length of the ski so that acceleration/deceleration/edge-change/turning can
be accomplished with minimal (if any) change to the "style" of the skier.

My definition of "truly perfect form" (in lieu of saying "Go watch Bob LaPoint
ski!") is to use the entire ski for each side-to-side run, where a side-to-side
run is defined as starting at one side of the boat, pulling through the wakes,
changing edges, decelerating for the pre-turn, turning around the "bouy" (or
just the other side of the wake), and accelerating out of the turn for the next
pull across the wakes.  What the skier does is use the tail for acceleration out
of the (previous) turn, ride the center edge through the wakes, use the center
rocker to change edge, then use the forward part of the ski to decelerate into
the turn.  Obviously, this is accomplished by weight shifts (both side-to-side
and forward-and-back).

Different skiers shift their weights at different times (and in different
quantities).  Varying the ski characteristics can easily compensate for those
styles which use less of one part of the ski and more of another.

And that's your water ski techno-babble for today.  :-)

...Roger... face_plant_engineering

I recently obtained an O'Brien from a friend of a friend of a friend that works
Coleman (parent company).  Anyway, a miscommunication led to the ski having two
high-wrap boots instead of a rear toe plate as we had ordered.

I have never been skiing or have I started with this configuration.  I'm 
considering putting on the rear toe plate.  Should I just learn to use the
rear boot?  

Anyway, just in case, if anyone has a rear toe plate sitting around...I may be
interested...


/Chris

    
    Chris,
    
    	There are arguments from both camps over slalom ski boot
    configurations. Tournament level skiers are seen from both camps.
    (Double high wraps vs. high wrap front/open toe rear)
    
    	I guess the first issue would be: Can you get out of the water
    with both feet in? Beyond that it's more than likely a matter of
    personal preference. I prefer the double high wraps as I feel more
    control over the ski and my rear heel doesn't move around. Although,
    I do have an open toe plate which I use for cold water beach start
    and landings.
    
    	Best advice? Try it out!
    
    Good luck,
    
    Rick

Rick,
Do you have different skiis or do you switch the rear fitting from hi-wrap to
toe plate?  

/C

    
    Chris,
    
    	Same ski, just unscrew the toe plate and screw on the high wrap
    plate...
    
    Rick
    
    	Boy, is that a sentence that could be picked apart!

    
    
    	Now that several pounds are missing since I last purchased
    a slalom ski. I appear to be out of the 69" range and into the
    67" range. I'm currently very comfortable on my 69" Kidder. What
    effect will I notice moving to a shorter ski? Quicker turns?
    
    Rick
    
    	Did I mention that a 1990 Velocity is on sale for 38x.00 with
    double high wraps!

RE: .78  Rick ...

A few things off the top of my head:

1) Harder deep-water starts ... not as much ski sticking out of the water, so
   your body position will have to be "right" every time!  No more cheating! :-)

2) Faster slow-downs.  Did that make sense?  Anyway, with the reduction in ski
   length you'll find the ski slowing down faster when you change edges before
   the preturn.  You'll need to adjust your technique for this.  But don't worry
   if you forget, 'cuz the first time you screw up you'll find out!  I believe
   it's called "bowing to the buoys" (or is that "...*AT* the buoys!"). :-)

3) Lighter wallet, after you go buy that new ski!  :-)

...Roger...

I had the pleasure of skiing on the O'Brien Synergy TC (66") this past weekend,
and may I say it is one wild ski.  It had the double plate bindings, which are
incredibly comfortable.  The ski is simply fast, not only across the wakes but
in every respect.  And when they say "TC = Tight Carving" you better believe it.
I went out the front on my first turn (which I expected anway).  Then I figured
it out (sort of).  All I can say is that when you tell this thing to turn, you
better be ready to turn!  It comes around so quick that it virtually pivots
around the buoy, which usually throws your shoulders forward along with the rest
of your body (as I found out on the first turn).  But once you get the rhythm,
you can carve some serious water.  I got caught over-exaggerating a turn on my
good side (I let the handle out early in the preturn and opened up my body) and
I actually did a slam dunk turn.  And it felt good!  I buried the handle in the
water, pushed the tail of the ski around with my rear foot, and pulled out of
the turn ever so smoothly.  The guys in the boat were as shocked as I was that I
pulled it out.  Them: "Hey man, do you know you just jammed the handle in the
water and pivoted around it!?!?"  Roger: "Yeah, I knew that!" (looking smug but
worrying about whether he'll ever be able to do it again).  I said to myself,
"So that's how Mike Kjellander does that!"  Unbelievable.

Let's see...DEC stock is up another 2 points right now, so if I sell 7 shares
at $65 that's $455 ... yeah, that oughta buy the ski and put some gas in the
boat!  :-)

...Roger...

    I went looking for a new slalom ski yesterday. I'm leaning towards
    Kidder, mostly 'cuz I've tried more used Kidders than other brands, and
    Baert has them at 15% off. My question is, can you buy too much ski for
    your present ability? I like the Kidder Pro Tour, O'brien Pro Circuit,
    HO Mach I, and I've tried a Redline Pro Graphite which was more ski
    than I could use but it felt comfortable. I've improved since trying 
    the Redline.
    
    I have it narrowed down to the Redline Pro Graphite (67.5"), or the new
    FX Graphite(67") in the Kidder line. Other thoughts are the HO Turbo, or
    Connely SHortline 2. The new FX is the lowest entry in the tourney
    series of skies. The Shortline is also a tournament ski.
    
    Opinions anyone? I don't want too much ski, but I want to be able to
    push what I have to my ability. The difference in price between the
    Redline and the other skis is about $20. 
    
    ~jeff

re      <<< Note 51.81 by CSLALL::JEGREEN "Money talks, mine says GOODBYE" >>>
>                             -< opinions needed! >-

	I was at Baert a couple of days ago, if it wasn't for the fact 
that they didn't have double high wraps in my size I might have walked 
out of there with the 65.5 inch Velocity S/T.  I'm REALLY starting to 
like shorter skis, the 66 inch O'Brien Synergy Z was very tempting, 
friends have since told me that I should also try the Synergy TC.  
Also the 65 inch HO Extreme that I tried yesterday morning (before
work) was very nice.  I'm trying to get a ride on an EP Stiletto, so
far the only one available to me belongs to a guy with a size 6 shoe -
I think it might be a 64 inch ski. 
BTW, I have a 67 inch Connely Team 2 (one model down from the
Shortline) that you're welcome to try sometime. 

	You asked for opinions, right ?

	I don't think there is much risk of buying into too much 
ski, to me the better/faster/stiffer/quicker turning skis just seem
to feel less stable for the first 1/2 mile or so, after that I'm able 
to start pushing on them at least as hard as I push on the ProCircuit, 
with better results and with harder falls when I push too hard.  
I think the risk of buying into not enough ski is worse, you want to 
move on to the better ski within a year - OK if you just want to spend 
money frequently.

	Reg	{needs to pull earlier and harder with stiffer legs}

    
    
     I tried a friends HO Mach1 and It felt so RIGHT. I want one. Ive had a 
    
    difficult time finding one though. Would anyone know how much that ski
    
    is? Im looking for a 1990 model.
    
     Also, Ive heard its possible to buy demo skiis for much less than
    
    original price. Where are those demos to be had?
    
    
     Tom
    

    Baert has a 1989, maybe a 1990 leftover HO Mach I with a big
    dent/scracth in the top. With front wrap and rear toe plate they'll let
    it go for $150. Don't think it's been used. The scratch doesn't effect
    anything but the looks. It's a 67", or a 69". Or does HO go in even
    sizes, which would make it a 68". It's one of those three.
    
    ~jeff

    
    Jeff,
    
    I noticed a *huge* difference between the Pro Circuit and
    the HO Mach 1.  A good strong pull on the HO will send you
    through the wakes faster than the Circuit...these
    tournament skis are faster, quicker and perform best when
    pushed to their potential.
    
    The manufacturers recommend certain skis for people who
    ride the middle of the ski, or those who ride with their
    weight shifted back.  You can customize your ski by moving
    the boot(s) forward or back, I've yet to experiment with 
    this!
    
    I'd suggest taking a lesson and to ask the instructor for
    ski recommendations based on your ability.  I wouldn't ask
    the sales people who work at the stores, (unless it's Ed
    or Norm over at WaterSKi+), get advice from a good source.
    
    Good Luck!  
    
    
    

re <<< Note 51.78 by KAHALA::SUTER "We dun't need no stinkin' skis, (sometimes)" >>>
>                          -< Anyone got a spare 380? >-
    
>    	Did I mention that a 1990 Velocity is on sale for 38x.00 with
>    double high wraps!

	I just called O'tons.

Velocity S/T with double high wraps  $ 483.95  '91   or  $379.95  '90
they have "several" of each in both 67 and 65.5 inch sizes.

	Reg

    
    	Yeah, I understand that there is only a graphics change in the
    Velocity from 90 to 91....
    
    	I tried moving my bindings ahead just one itsy-bitsy hole and could
    feel the difference it made in the turn. I was definately able to push
    more of the ski into the water in the turn. Now, if only I could stop
    over-turning! arg!
    
    	Rick

    
    >>if only I could stop over-turning...
    
    right Rick!  A couple of us are having that problem on our
    offsides, it takes me 2 or 3 runs to get that wrinkle out!
    I think it's just proper timing for the pull coming out of
    the turn.....
    
    A friend lent me a Bob Lapoint instructional video, what
    a great tape!   It's interesting that he believes good
    skiing is *NOT* putting any part of your body into the
    water...you'll never see Bob slam-dunk.
    
    

    re .85
    The leftover HO with a scratch at Baert is a Turbo, not a Mach I. 
    
    Kidder now rates their skis on a scale of 1-10 called the "Flex Control
    System".  5 & 6 are novice & recreational,7-8 are intermediate to
    expert, and 9-10 advanced to expert. The Velocity S/T is a 10. Baert
    had the 1992 Pro Link in as a demo. On a scale of 1-10 this thing is
    rated as a 12.5 !!! The mgr was saying how this was perhaps the most 
    unforgiving, outrageous ski available.
    
    There were also some demo'd HO Extremes, 66" & 68", front wrap with
    rear strap for $336. 
    
    ~jeff
    	

	Just a side comment while we're on the topic of Baert's.  I'm
	sorry to report that Pete has left and taken a sales position
	with O'Brien.  Apparently, they made him a great offer.  They
	moved him to North Carolina and gave him the Overton's account!
	Not too shabby, eh?

	I for one, will miss him.  He was a great source of information.
	He knew every piece of equipment inside and out.  And when it
	came down to getting things repaired and replaced, he was always
	a great help.  Baert's will be hard pressed to replace him...

	Baert also closed down their maintenance operation at the
	Plaistow store.  I wonder if they plan to continue to sell
	boats down there...

	Anyhow, I hope I haven't taken the discussion too far away
	from the topic of the main note...:-)

	-ric!

    For those of you presently on a Connelly Concept or are considering
    eithor a Concept or a Rocket,I thought that I would add my experiances.
    
    The Concept is by far the most popular ski in Colorado,outnumbering all
    other skiis combined by about 10:1. How many Concept pilots will change
    to the new Rocket is yet to be seen. 
    
    The nice thing about the Concept for so many people is that it is a
    softer ski,a bit more forgiving than a lot of high performance models.
    It also decelerates extremely well if ridden in the center. It turns
    well if you do not try to throw the ski around or attempt to rush the
    last bit of the turn. It turns extremely  tight and level IF you allow
    it to do it's job.
    
    Now,if you are skiing extremely hot,don't like to slow down a lot
    before the turn,or feel like the Concept is too soft through the wakes
    and you are not achieving enough angle,then maybe the Rocket was built
    for you.?? 
    
    The Rocket has the same bottom as the Concept. It also has the same 
    amount of stiffness in the fore-body. Now for the changes,It has more
    tail rocker and the bevels have been reworked to help the ski maintain
    a more level attitude coming out of the buoy. Many top skiers felt that 
    when the Concept was pushed into the pulling phase,or if the skier
    rocked back too far or pulled the handle in too soon instead of skiing
    to it,the Concept would rear-up slightly and angle would be lost. 
    The Rocket will not rear-up. They also made the mid-section and the
    tail area stiffer for better acceleration. 
    
    If you are a style-type skier instead of a hook and grunter,I feel that
    you need to check out the two top connelly models for '92. Which one
    you decide on will probably be decided by the amount of patience you
    have through your turn and your ability or lack of to accelerate well
    through the wakes.
    
    Personally,I feel that the Concept starts working quite well at about
    32 mph-34 mph,and works even better at 28 off and awesome at 32off as
    long as you are not running late. The Rocket will be a ski that will
    help us get through 32 off easier and into the deeper stuff.
    
    that's just one opinion ---let me know of your experiances
    
    MATTRIX,,THE ROCKET PILOT

    Anyone out there on eithor the jobe 1600 or 1400?
    Has anyone compared the two side by side out where it counts?
    Has anyone experianced problems with the Flexon zip up boots?
    
    I don't want one,I am a Rocket pilot,but I have about 5 friends
    who think the concept is a bit too much for them and liked what they
    felt when they tested a 1600. I was mainly wondering "what are the
    differences between the 16 and the 14,at what point in the course
    should one opt for the 1600 ?
    
    thx
    
    Mattrix

    I have tested the Rocket only once as of this message and the only
    two things I can say at this point is:
    
    It is the fastest ski I have ever piloted.
    It does not finish it's turn as quickly as the concept but I need
    to play with the fin a bit. I believe that by reducing the depth
    of the blade in the front will help it turn a bit tighter.
    
    One more thing,this ski will not pitch you out the front and
    will not rear up coming out of the turn. When I reduce some of the
    pressure created by the front edge of the fin,it may? who knows?
    
    It decelerates well,turns extremely smoothly and with a feeling of
    control. It comes blasting out of hole(once it is done turning)
    and accelerates strong through both wakes..
    
    
    This weekend I will play with the fin depth and fore-aft adjustments
    and see what results can be achieved.
    
    Matt

    
    Roger,Wayne,
    
    I took my Rocket back to the shop. I am tired of fighting it right now
    and just want to get back on something I know well..The Concept.
    The Rocket and I will meet again maybe in Late May or early June when
    I am feeling more comfortable out on the water. 
    
    The Rocket just did not finish it's turn like I wanted,it would come
    out of the turn with no REAL angle and would be off to the races...down
    course. It seemed glued to the water and would continue to roll over
    further and would make your eyes water through the wakes,but because it
    finished it's turn so slowly,I felt like I had already lost too much
    time and would end up pulling longer than I wanted and would come into
    the ball hot. I guess that is  what the Rocket is all about,maintaining
    a  more constant speed,but it is not for my style, I am aggressive in
    the turns,like a lot of angle out of the buoy,and as a result,get the
    privelege of lots of deceleration time. On my concept,I would not run
    late even at 32 off,if I fell,it was cuz I got a little too aggressive 
    when actually running the buoy.
    
    just call me
    
    
    Mr. concept

    I forgot to add that if you like the HP,you will make the transfer to
    the new Rocket better than I did trying to change over from the
    concept. The Rocket is a glorified HP. 
    
    Nothing wrong with that,the rocket will work well for the tons of
    people out there now riding HP's. 
    
    
    Matt

Cool stuff Matt.  Sounds like your decision is a wise one.  Heck, ya gotta ski on
what works for you!

I *really* wanna work on my slalom this year.  It's tough, cuz the guys I ski
on my lake are a bunch of "Footin' Fiends" (no that's not misspelled, they're my
'friends', but they're "Footin' Fiends")!  :-)  I love to 'foot, but I wanna do
more slalom this year.

Now, I just sell my KGX and TRC and get myself into a Synergy TC and we'll be all
set!  :-)

Come on ice out!

...Roger...

    I used to be VERY serious about my footin until we got a course on the
    lake,as time went by,I got tired of the abuse of barefootin and
    addicted to the feeling of rounding those little red balls.
    
    Do you have access to a course that is on a lake ice off to ice on?
    
    That'll do er.
    
    Ride what works,that's my motto now.
    
    matt

    
    <Insert disclaimer about not being associated with Beart marine>
    
    I just happened to stop by Beart in Plaistow last night and didn't
    they have a leftover Velocity for a mere 300 clams! But alas, the
    number on the bottom was 65! Arghhhhhh!
    
    He said he'd check on a 67 for the same price.... but anyway if
    anyone is looking for a 65" Velocity, that's one helluva price.
    
    Rick

    They had two of them last weekend, I would have mentioned it but they
    were only 65.5", and I know Reg was looking for DHW's anyways. These were
    only rear toe straps.
     
    I'll probably end up at the Danvers store this weekend. I'll check over
    their racks for specials.
    
    ~jeff
    
    Been looking for barefoot suits, lot's of choices. I'm leaning towards
    the Wavelength becuz of it's 5mm thickness. Helps cushion the body a
    little better. OOoops,wrong note! 

    	Can anyone comment on the F44 Craze...?
    
    	Have any of you guy's/gal's tried skiing this free-style ski?
    	At the boat show I watched a demo video, and it looked like fun.

								Thanks    
    								-mike-

	Reg was looking  *_FOR_*  DHWs ?    

	Reg was looking  *_AT_*  skis, not  *_FOR A SKI_*  (-:   
but then again, if Reg saw something he liked...... 

	Guess what Pierre is getting for his birthday on sunday (-: ?


	Also, tomorrow is March 21st., so all you New Englanders 
looking for ski bargains had better haul your selves down to 
Water-skis Plus in Spencer for their annual spring opening sale.
Just don't get there until I've had a chance to clean 'em out, OK ?

	Reg

    
    Jeff,
    
    	When did Plaistow have the '91 Velocity 67.5? This past weekend?
    My "new" bindings would screw right onto that ski.....
    
    Rick
    
    Ah forget it! My binding plates aren't RED!.... :-)  :-)

    Rick S, or should I call you "SCUM" after your last posting! :^)
    
    Don't know if you are afflicted with brand loyalty or not, but I saw
    sumin' you may be interested in...
    
    a brandy-new leftover Connelly...
    
    68" HP Signature series, XL tour wrap &  L RTS at  Beart in Plaistow
    for a mere...
    
     $280 smack-a-roos. 
    
    It was on the rack at the close of business today, Thursday. This
    weekend is the celebrity weekend open house . Won't last long if yer
    interested.
    
    ~jeff

    Sooner or laker,you'll eithor choose a Connelly and win,or
    you'll get tired of losing  on some off brand and quit!  :-)  :-)
    
    ski ya ,
    
    The trouble-maker

    
    Jeff & Matt....
    
    	You guys are such Kidders! Check the rumor note...
    
    Rick

    Passing time,waiting until 1:45 a.m. when I can go home,tends to 
    get a bit boring when production is slow. So I started going through
    the ol' boat notes,this file is cool to read because it is like an
    old diary. Not that I ever kept one,but my sister did and I would
    always find it and read all the crappy things she would write about
    me,tear those pages out and then beat her up. :-')
    
    so,
    
     WHERE'S ROG?
    
    what are ya skiing on this year Rog,did you buy yourself one
    of them thar sYnergy models,the TC perhaps?
    
    I'm still on my Concept,it's been good to me.
    I am wanting to re-try a Rocket,but there are'nt any left in the state!
    
    It's the hot seller out here,the concept is taking the back seat
    this year,and all the rest have been thrown in the ditch.
    
    
    Matt   

    Would'nt want anyone to misunderstand my last paragraph.
    
    the only skiis you'll find tossed in the ditch are
    
     HO HO's
    
     Kiddies
    
    and anything that does'nt say CONNELLY  on it.
    
    
     :-)
    
    Matt,an unbiased man

Hey Matt...

I'm still alive and kickin' here, just haven't been cuttin' it up as much as I'd
like this year.  I'm pretty heavy into the softball scene for some reason this
year, playing in weekend tournaments now and then (like *this* weekend) and I'm
playing in two DEC leagues during the week.  Keeps me busy.

And no, I didn't spring for the Synergy (yet).  I'm working a couple of leads,
however.  Still carving around on my TRC.  Need new boots, though.  Heck, I'll
just buy a new ski!

So how's the bring-Roger-to-Colorado fund doing?  Almost enough to buy a Big-One
at Dunkin' Donuts, I'll bet!  :-)

...Roger...

    Yo Rog...
    
    It seems as though a lot of people are doing other things besides
    skiing this season,personally,I am playingmore tennis and riding
    my mountain bike more than I have been skiing,only have 50 hours on
    my boat so far and I started in Feb.!!
    
    As far as your fund is going,well,we are'nt doing so well. I think
    we spent all your fund money on  buoys,orange juice,and flags.
    
    and
    
    
     a few doughnuts. :-)
    
    
    Softball can be hard on the ankles so,watch what ya go sliding into.
    
    Matt

Yeah, it's funny you mention the ankles, 'cuz I took a foul ball off the inside
of my left ankle this weekend.  Man did that hurt (and still does).  No big deal
though, just slightly painful now.  I think the beers-after-the-game-which-were-
used-solely-for-medicinal-purposes helped me forget about it!  :-)  And
fortunately, nobody decided to take me out at second base with their spikes high
in the air (I'm a shortstop ... double plays can be dangerous in a close game).
So I'll be on the stick (and bare feet) this weekend!

But hey guess what?  This softball stuff has its rewards if you play for the
right team ... we took 3rd place in the Mass. State Division A tournament this
weekend, which gets us a bid to attend the Nationals in Miami over the Labor Day
weekend!  Not too shabby, eh?  If I can go, you can bet I'll be catching a few
slalom (and barefoot) runs down there.  Hmm, West Palm Beach (more precisely,
Lantana) isn't too far from Miami ... may have to drop in and pay Mikey Seipel &
Co. a visit.

...Roger... who_finally_has_a_few_days_off_from_softball

    Good luck Roger,and I would make a "shortstop" at Seipel's too
    if I was down that way.
    
    ski hot,
    
    play hard.
    Matt

    I'M BACK ON THE     C O N N E L L Y  R O C K E T !!!
    
    and I am absolutely loving it! For the past couple of months,I have
    been skiing hard but not progressing like I felt I should of been.
    So,looking at what I thought were my problems,I decided that Connelly
    must of built the Rocket for me. My style has changed a bit since I 
    broke my ankle,it is harder for me to decelerate mainly,and I am not
    as strong through the wakes.
    
    What I needed was a ski that liked to maintain a faster speed through
    all phazes,one that did'nt care how far foreward I got in my turns,
    and one that built hellacious angle...progressively. the Rocket was/is
    the answer.
    
     The Rocket does make larger dia. turns,it will not hook,and it will
    not pitch me out the front no matter how hard I step on the front of
    it in the turn(when I am about half way around the buoy,the tip of this
    ski is almost under the water,it rides very level at all times. I have
    found that I come out of my turns later than I did on my concept but
    the Rocket builds,creates so much angle that I find myself early and 
    waiting for the next buoy. The first time out on it,I had terrible 
    gates at 28 off,came flying into the number one hot and late,I almost
    ran over number 2 coming into it,and by the time I got to the 3,I 
    was waiting for it,I ran the pass even after letting my hips get 
    a bit behind me creating a large turn at the 5!! I was excited to say
    the least. 
    
    
    The only problem now is that this ski works so well,and is so forgiving
    that I am getting lazy. The other thing I should mention is this ski
    does not work well at 34 mph,and you must pull all the way through both
    wakes. If you pull short,and change edges early,this ski sets an edge
    so strongly that you'll end up turning inside of the ball.
    
    
    Matt,the ROCKET PILOT!

    Continuing the ROCKET  story, I would like to relay the fact that
    3 people have tried ROCKETS since I bought mine,all three of them
    now ski on a CONNELLY ROCKET!
    
    Seems as though people who have loved their HP's and Stiletto's
    find the ROCKET suits them well! Sorry EP,but Connelly is taking
    all your loyal fans away from you too.
    
    GO CONNELLY!
    
    Scrap'n Matt

    I am going to the Denver boat show on Friday to pick up my new ski.
    
    I special ordered a Signature Concept with 1.5 times the graphite
    in the front and mid section. Hopefully it will accelerate and allow for
    my "heavy on the front" style of deceleration like the Rocket, while
    allowing the tighter turning characteristics of the stock concept.
    
    
     If it does'nt work,I'll have a cheap ski for sell in May.
    
    matt

    This note looks like a good place to ask....
    
        What do you call one of those ski's that is shorter and wider
    than an ordinary ski and has a place for each foot. They look 
    like a good time and real easy to get up on a deep water start.
    I want one but don't know what to ask for. I would even be willing
    to buy a used one. Any help out there???
    
               Thanks in advance,
    
                                    Jeff

    re:
>                <<< Note 51.117 by SALEM::JUNG "half-day?>>>" >>>
>                        -< What are they? I want one! >-
>
>    This note looks like a good place to ask....
>    
>        What do you call one of those ski's that is shorter and wider
>    than an ordinary ski and has a place for each foot. They look 
>    like a good time and real easy to get up on a deep water start.
>    I want one but don't know what to ask for. I would even be willing
>    to buy a used one. Any help out there???
>    
>               Thanks in advance,
>    
>                                    Jeff

    Jeff,
    
    	Sounds like you are describing a trick ski. They are about 26-30
    inches long and maybe 6-8 inches wide.
    
    Rick
    

    
        A trick ski? OK. Have any idea how much $$$ ? Anyone in the
    So. New Hampshire have one for sale or know of a place to buy
    one at a good price. 
    
       Thanks again, 
                       Jeff

    
    Jeff,
    
    	Check out these notes....
    
    		71	Trick Skis
    		624	Mail Order
    		939	Pro Shops
    
    Rick

    Jeff, I can probably come up with an Overton's catalog if you want to
    come see me at pole A16, core A.
    Wayne

	The question a few replies back might have been about a "hot
dog" ski.  The  O'Brien Krypton  and  (I think) Connelly F44  are a
couple of models in this style.  They're wider at the front than a 
normal slalom ski, usually have a cut in section just behind the rear 
boot and are about 4 inches shorter than a slalom ski (for the same 
weight skier).  Yes, they're kinda "trick" skis, but not the 
normal/regular 42x10 or so inch  "trick ski"  with no fin.

	Reg

    Wayne, 
    
          Thanks a bunch for the catalogs. I found something inthe Overtons
    catalog called a RADICAL SKIBOARD. Not sure if it's what I'm looking
    for. The CONNELLY STICK looks good also. Oh yeh, and the mega choice
    in TRICK SKI"S also look good. Confused now........
    
    
    
                           Jeff

    Jeff,  "trick skis" like I'm familiar with (a good friend went to the
    National competition a few years ago) came in pairs and didn't have any
    fins so one could do helicopters and ski backwards, etc.  I'm sure
    there was probably a slalom version with two bindings on a single ski,
    also.  What you saw, was it more like a snow skiboard?
    Wayne

    I've kinda ruled out "trick ski's". I think what I want is sold as a 
    single ski, sort of like a snowboard I guess. I'm giong to check
    Walmart and the like. I have to do better than $200!
    
    
                         Jeff

    If it's a wake-board type of device you're looking for , the
    better/best one for under $200 is the original Hyper-lite. Close-out
    priced most everywhere for about $189. If money is the issue, and it
    always is, then try Beart Marine, now in Seabrook or Danvers, the have
    some original "Thrasher" roto-mold boards for $50-$89. They are plastic
    much like the original kneeboards, and such are not neutral bouyancy so
    getting up on one is considerably harder then the newer compression
    molded boards. For hacking around and getting some air they are fun for
    the money. The Hyperlite is relatively easy to get up on.
    
    ~jeff

        I have this dilema of searching for a new slalom ski ('bout time, huh?).
The old O'brien TRC is pretty sacked out now with a total of 970 runs on it over
the past 7 seasons, and yes, I have kept track of the number of runs.  A "run"
consists of an average of 4 passes through the slalom course, or free skiing 
for about 5 miles per run.  That's allotta miles... 

        In looking through all the sales propeganda, buyers guides, and talking
to ski-shop folks, I'm totaly confused!  The first thing your supposed to do is
put together your skier profile:

Q: Are you a C-turning (carving) skier, a TC turning (tight carving) skier or a
   Z-turning skier?

A: I'm a C-turning skier out of the course (I think), and in the course when I'm
   doing it right (perhaps). I'm a TC-turning skier in the course as I'm getting
   late for the bouys, and a Z-turner (probably) to play catch-up as I start 
   getting real late. 


Q: Are you a forward, mid or back skier?

A: Well, I lean forward as I'm Z-turning, mid to slightly back as I'm TC skiing
   and mid-back to back when I'm C-skiing  (I guess).


So, what am I?  I've skied with enough of you out there that I was hoping 
someone could tell me.  (Rick, Roger, Reg, Jeff, Jeanne, Anybody?)

I've pretty much narrowed my selection down to about 10 (!) different 
possibilities, and would like to drop that down to maybe 3 or 5 before I start
the demo routine.

Some possibilities to be investigated:

Connelly Signature Series Rocket:  May be to stiff for me which will translate
        into acceleration; I already have trouble slowing down in the preturn.

Connelly Signature Series Concept:  A definate contender; It seems like a 
        slightly detuned Rocket.  Still high-end but a bit more forgiving.

H.O. VTX:  I like the construction and the looks, but the thing is *real* heavy
        compared to any O'brien, Connelly or Kidder; I don't know if this is 
        good or bad.  Also, it's super stiff, but I'd still like to try one...

Kidder Hammer:  I like the construction and flex numbers; kind of medium-stiff.
        I also liked some of the comments by some of the testers; "predictable",
        which for me, hopefully, will translate to "consistency".

Kidder Redline:  I tried one a couple of years ago and felt comfortable on it,
        so maybe I'll test ski a new one.

O'brien Rumor Pro:  I'm sure I'd feel real comfortable on this ski, I just have
        to try one first.  I'll bet this will be one of my top three.

O'brien Rush Pro:  I'd like to try this one too, maybe during an O'brien demo
        day..  A little less stiff than the Rumor, and has a slightly different
        bottom shape.

O'brien TRC Pro:  I want to try one just to see how the TRC has evolved over the
        years.  I own an '87 but have skied on an '89 a '90 and a '92 (which
        was too long for me and binding placement was off from my liking, but
        I was in Florida at the time, so I can't complain. B^).  This is one of
        the few high end skis that doesn't have the CAP construction techniques
        for '94, but it does have *real cool* bottom graphics.


Some skis that I haven't considered (but I'm willing to listen):

        Duvall:  Too new to the market place (perhaps), ugly graphics.
        H.O.: Other than the VTX which has my curiosity up.  I've had some bad
              experiences on older H.O. skis; always felt squirrely to me.
        Jobe: Never liked them; tried a few between 5 and 10 years ago, (I'm
              sure they're different now) but there's enough other skis out 
              there to be tried that I won't waste my time investigating Jobe
              unless the opportunity is right in front of me.
        E.P.: Nothing against E.P.(except for their stupid graphics for '94);
              I've skied on one for years, (my wife is still skiing on it),
              I just want something with some new technology, but if the
              opportunity arises, I'll try one.
 

What I'll probably end up doing, is narrowing my choices to 3 skis and then
buying one from Steve at Beart Marine in Danvers, MA. (He gives me "best price"
whether by matching catalogue prices, informing me of manufactures' specials,
or getting me "blems"...Hell, I'm only gonna beat on the thing anyway...) Then
I'll have the opportunity to "exchange" the ski after using it for a week or
few, if I'm not actually *crazy* about the thing, or if it doesn't get me into
38' off.   ;^)  ;^)

Now if anyone has any insight or comments, fire away...Any comments are more
than welcome. (Where's Mattrix "crash" Klein when you need him?, but then again,
I'm sure the "Rocket Man" would put me on a Rocket...)


Doug
                                               

Hi Doug!

I'd say you got your money's worth out of that TRC, how
long have you had that ski??  7 years!  I bet that ski has seen
more buoys than the Pro Tour!  :>)

I'd definately demo, if you're serious about buying a
new ski, the dealers will let you try as many as you
need to, as long as you ultimately buy from them.
Owens Marine gave me that option a few years back.

I liked the HO VTX.  I demoed the ski through the
course last August, it's a ski you can get used to!
In my opinion, you'd need some time to feel comfortable
on it, but...if you're the type of skier that needs
help slowing down the ski, (I do)...I think this ski
is a good choice.  Demo it!  It's really different.
Wade's done pretty well on it.  :>)

I've seen you ski and I don't see any weaknesses in
any area!  If you feel you're having trouble slowing
down the ski I'd look for a ski with a wider front.
You already know what you're doing out there, just
find a ski that'll help you do it better!  

Jeanne                                 

Hey Doug...

   I just might sponge off the info you gather.  I'm thinking about getting a
new ski this year also.  Time to get off the 68" and back to a 66" where I can
kill myself!  :-)

   BTW, Kyle is a Kidder rep. now!  I'll have to check what he has for
"specials" in his mobile warehouse (a.k.a. his car).  :-)

...Roger...

Hi,
	I'm looking for info on the new wide slalom skis.  Last months 
waterski mag had an article that looked at 5 or 6 skis, and it really
caught my interest.

	The main reason is to find a ski that makes a one ski start
*REAL* easy.  My wife has yet to master the start, and I really hate to
drop a ski on the river.  There are too many helpful people that just 
love to pick up a floating ski.  I'm hoping a few "assisted" starts will
quickly translate to success on her world team.

	Anyone got any experience with these things?  What kind of tradeoff
have you experienced versus a normal ski?

dave