Conference vicki::boats

    I know this is an old note. If your still having these problems
    give me a call at DTN 486-6200 or 214-404-6200 .
    

    I know this is a really old note, but for anyone who's looking, I've 
    repaired fiberglass canoes, boats and even aluminum boats with the 
    fiberglass repair kits, and they worked for me.  Just thought I'd pass
    that on.
    
    Steve

I've recently picked up a 15' fiberglass boat in need of complete
restoration.  Most of the work needed is pretty straightforward,
except for the exterior of the hull.  The boat sat outside, un-used
and uncovered, for 12 years.  In several areas the gelcoat has become
brittle and has chipped away, leaving the fiberglass cloth exposed 
underneath.

I plan to sand the entire hull, and then repair the areas where the 
gelcoat is chipping away.  Some of the chips are 1/2" or more in
diameter, with the worst damage being a spot near the waterline where
there are dozens of these chips covering an area of a couple square 
feet.  I will probably repair this spot with fiberglass cloth and resin.

What I am looking for is the best material to fill and permanently
repair the chips.  Matching the gelcoat after the repair is not an 
issue, since the condition of the rest of the hull requires that the 
entire boat will be painted.  My feeling is that the material must 
remain somewhat flexible to allow for flexing of the hull, since some 
of the chips are fairly deep.  This pretty much rules out gelcoat, 
which is very brittle.

Among the materials I'm considering:
- MarineTex  (a 2 part epoxy specifically for marine use)
- fiberglass resin 
- regular bondo
- Tiger Hair (Bondo with fiberglass strands)

Does anyone have experience with a similar repair job, or have any advice
on the correct material to use?  Thanks in advance.

Rick W.

    I've used Marine-Tex for many years. Mostly to close screw holes
    or other small holes, where something "was".  This stuff
    is tough, for small area repairs, like those i've been dealing
    with, its worked but if your not gonna sand the immediate
    area around the hole it gets more difficult, because you have
    to be careful of the surrounding gel-coat...
    
    However, in this case, and of the other alternatives you 
    listed, i'd go with the Marine Tex....
    You have a wider variety of sanding tools to work with
    i.e. vibrating, oscillating, grinder w/disc sanders.
    
    I can definitely say the where ever i have put Marine-Tex
    i ain't "left home yet"
    
    On another note: for minor gel-coat repairs, mix "cabasyl"
    with the gel-coat, say with a tongue depressor, or whatever
    then add the hardener, make sure the stick has gel-coat on
    it, so the hardener won't be absorbed into the stick..
    
    
    
    JIm.

RE: -1
    >    On another note: for minor gel-coat repairs, mix "cabasyl"
    >    with the gel-coat, say with a tongue depressor, ......
    
    I recall my search for "cabasol" last year.  Its used as a filler to
    thicken the gelcoat. A fiberglass repair shop told me about it.
    Unfortunately I had trouble locating the stuff. I did hear it sold
    in 50 lb. bags.  Still not knowing what the stuff looked like I
    visited the local yokal autobody repair place around the corner
    from me.  I ask the guy if he had any of this material and I told
    him I could only get it in 50 lb. quantities.  He laughed and pulled
    out a baggie of cabasol approx. the size of my fist. The stuff was
    as light as a feather!  He said if I ever purchased the 50 lbs.
    it would have come in a bag the size of my truck!
    
    I later found the gelcoat I needed and it was referred to as 'GelPaste'.
    Its consistency was obviously thicker than the gelcoat I had and
    I didn't have to store 49.9 lbs. of cabasol that would have been
    left over when I was through.
    
    /MArk

There are many different fillers available, and each is best for certain 
uses. The Gougeon Brothers (WEST epoxy) have published a book on using 
WEST epoxy and fillers in fiberglass boat repair. Good information and 
good products. I use WEST fillers with System 3 epoxy since the System 3 
resin is somewhat cheaper (I've used gallons of it). WEST products are 
now available at many chandleries.

    While were on the subject...
    I haven't let the voids which appeared in the deck of my Grady White
    bother me (to much)..but I am concerned about repairing them properly
    when I haul the boat this year.
    
    It seems that during the manufacturing process that the fiberglass
    matting did not entirely contact the gelcoat which was previously
    sprayed into the hull mold. (Or the gelcoat was not sprayed thick
    enough in that area.)I have experienced 2 locations of approximately
    3/8"-1/2" in diameter void which broke like an egg shell.  What I have
    is a couple of holes with a depth of approx. 1/8".
    
    My question is Do I fill these with gelcoat paste -OR- Do I fill
    most of the hole with either MarineTex or Fiberglass resin and finish
    off with a light skin of gelcoat.  And even more difficult task
    will be to sand/smooth this area out matching the crosshatch non-skid
    surface of the deck.  I'm not terribly concerned with an exact color
    match.
    /MArk

    Be very careful not to inhale Cab-O-Sil, which is very fine silicon
    dioxide.  The penalty is silicosis, or white lung, a debilitating
    respiratory desease...

Moved by moderator...

================================================================================
Note 763.0                  Fiberglass Repair Needed?                 No replies
AIMHI::SJOHNSON                                      18 lines  11-OCT-1990 10:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I need to find a good fiberglass repair place in the Southern NH area. 
    We have a BAJA w/ gell coating.  Owens recommended 2 places: 
    Fiberglass Specialties Unlimited in Auburn - who is never there & never 
    returns our calls.  I also tried Lakeside Auto & Marine in Gilford who's 
    line seems to always be busy.
    
    The damage that has been done will be covered under our trailer
    warranty.  The trailer has lost 2 sets of rollers on 2 seperate
    occassions and has gouged our hull.  Also some bow damage has been done
    that has gouged throught the gell coat coloring.
    
    
    Thanks in advance.
    If you know the reputation of either of the above 2 places - that would
    be helpful also.
    
    Thanks,
    Sonia

    I don't know about either of these places, but I do know on an excellent
    fiberglass repair shop on RT 106 in Laconia. The name of the shop
    is Lakes Region Fiberglass, the owners name is Steve Price. He does
    a lot of work for the area dealers. I had some things done to my
    boat last spring and was very pleased with both Steves knowledge
    and workmanship. I don't have his number with me. I'll put it in
    here tomorrow.
    
    Scott Malcolm

    Not in Southern NH. but  1st Class Fiberglass in Kingston MA. (617)585-2240
    was once recommended to me. I never did business with them although when I
    called them on the phone to ask about some minor glass repairs and told
    them that I was going to fix it myself,..the owner recommended HOW TO fix 
    the area and what I should be concerned with in the process.
	    
    /MArk
    

    Hello,
    
    I just purchased a 14 foot Fiberglass which needs a paint job.  I read
    through this note real brief and it sure sounds confusing to the
    novice (such as myself).  Anyways, I say it needs a paint job because
    it was previously painted and is chipping away as it was outside,
    uncovered for about 5 years.
    
    Given I have to get all this old paint off, whats the best method?  Do
    I strip it or sand it?  Is there a special fiberglass stripper?  If
    not, what kind of sand paper? Wet or dry?  Power sanding?  disk or
    band?
    
    As you can see, I havn't a clue as to were to start.
    
    Thanks for any suggestions...
    -(dan)

    
    Painting Fibreglas properly can be a lot of work, but it can look
    absolutley gorgeous when done. There are lots of options, depending on
    the the qulaity of what you want as the end result.
    
     A 14" is notthat larghe, so I would go the following route (I've done
    this on a 19' Boat and am conmtemplating it on my 22')
    
     First, Strip all the old paint off- it is obviously not bonding well.
    There are special paint removers for Fibreglass that do not damage the
    Gel Coat. Bets places are the discount catalogs like Bliss, M&E,E&B,
    Boat/US, Goldberg's, Defender, etc.
    
     Fill all the crack/gouges,nicks with a good filler. Mke sure the
    cracks are clean (buy from catalog/stores above)
    
     Sand the surface (use a wet/dry  ) with decreasing coarsness of
    sanpaper. I'd tend to finish up with a 200 grit to get a good Bond.
    Wash off all the residue/dust completely.
    
     At this point , I would paint the boat with a good epoxy based
    primer/filler (Marine). I would spray on at least tow coats with a
    sanding between coats. The last coat I would lightly and with 400 grit
    paper.
    
     You may tyhen paint with marine enamel- easy/simple will probably tend
    to peel and fade- this would not be my first choice
    
     Marine epoxy paint- spray (preferred) or brush on- bonds well/ gives a
    good finish , fairly durable. Make sure you thin it so that you get 
    reasonable slow drytime to get the gloss smooth finish- especilally if
    you brush (I have found painting pads work better than a brush here.
    
     The most durable , nicest looking finish is two part Urethane- BUT__
    THIS STUFF IS HIGHLY TOXIC. YOU WANT TO DO THIS OUTDOORS WITH A FACE
    MASK THAT HAS FILTERS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE.	 If yoy spry this stuff- it
    will be a super high gloss (a wet look), but that is very dangerous and
    you should use the face mask that have an air supply to prevent
    breathing the fumes, since you get a lot of volume when spraying. With
    a little thinning, you can put this on with a painting pad and you can
    get almost as good a finish. Because of the short life when you mix
    this stuff, brushing without thinning can turn out not so good (brush
    marks). THis stuff bonds well, looks good, is very hard and durable.
    
     There are some good books on Boat painting/refinishing that are available
    through the catalogs, even some DIY videos.
    
     I've never sprayed the Two part Urethane paint. I have seen it done and
    it is Gorgeous (AWLGRIP is a two part Urethane). I have used a
    brush/pad with the proper thinning and it comes out extremely well (a
    8.5 vs a 10). The secret is in the preparation , the priming and
    getting a smooth surface. Even though I have the spray equipment, and
    the  masks are cheap enough, I would still use a pad  for application.
    
     The Secret to painting a boat is just like painting a car- it's all in
    the preparation.
    
     Dick
    
    
     Just  my 2 cents
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Fill all the nicks, scrathces

Dick gave you lots of good info in the previous reply.

Last spring I went through a lot of the same effort that you're about 
to do, on my father's 15' MFG.  On that boat I painted the entire top,
from the rub rail up.  It was not previously painted, but the gelcoat 
was badly faded, to put it mildly.  I also had to strip some anti-fouling
bottom paint off the sides, which extended about 8" up from the chines.

To paint the topsides, I sanded the boat with an electric sander, and 
I believe 180 or 220 wet or dry paper.  Then any imperfections were filled
and sanded again.  I went the "brush" route, so it was not critical that 
every flaw or sanding scratch be smoothed to perfection as you would if
you sprayed.

For topsides paint, I started with a Pettit 2-part epoxy primer.  This 
stuff is a translucent white, and literally sticks like glue.  If you use
a 2-part topcoat, the primer coat is essential.  I followed that up with 
a coat of medium blue Interlux Interthane 2-part epoxy. I brushed it on, 
because as Dick pointed out, and it can't be stressed enough, this stuff 
SHOULD NOT be spayed by amateurs without professional breathing equipment. 
It will literally kill you.  Besides the paint and hardener which come 
boxed together, you also need to buy a quart of Interthane thinner.  You 
will need to keep adding thinner as you paint, since the paint does not 
require air to dry and tends to thicken while you are still painting.
Prior to painting, the entire boat should be wiped down with lacquer thinner
or Prep-Sol.  Then use a tack rag to remove all dust for a dust-free
paint job. A Shop Vac will help get dust from nooks and crannies.

For a "brush" paint job, it looks great.  There are brush marks, but the 
shine and durability are outstanding.  Several times the gunnels were
stepped on with sandy feet, and there are no marks whatsoever.  It took
about 3 weeks to get the last traces of blue paint off my arms, and a small
dab that found its way onto the steering wheel of my truck is still there.
For a boat that will see regular use and abuse, I would highly recommend a
2-part paint over standard marine enamel - the slight extra effort in putting
it on will save lots of touch up and repainting work later.  I have a small 
8' wooden boat that is painted with a standard Pettit enamel, and every time 
I used it last summer there were scratches to touch up.

For removing existing paint, as Dick mentioned there are special "fiberglass"
paint removers, which I used.  Since you'll be painting again, a standard
paint remover should work fine.  I paid about 3X the normal price for the 
"special fiberglass stuff", but also tried regular remover in one spot and 
didn't notice any gelcoat damage. After removing the bottom paint from the 
sides of the boat, I wanted to leave the natural gelcoat finish. So I wetsanded
where the bottom paint had been, and the rest of the badly faded gelcoat on the
sides of the boat with 220 wet/dry paper, and followed that up with a buffer
and red rubbing compound. The gelcoat on the sides looked almost *new*, with
no sign of how badly oxidized and faded they were before.

I spent about 2 weekends stripping, sanding, painting, and buffing, but I've
got "before and after" pictures that look like 2 different boats!

Rick

    Thanks alot guys, great information!
    I just recieved a M&E mag and it appears as though it has everything I
    need.  I'll start with the preparation and hope I can decide on the
    color(s) when the time comes.
    
    Thanks again
    -(dan)

    Moved by moderator....  you may want to check some of the previous
    replies in this topic for repair shop recommendations.
    
================================================================================
Note 979.0                     HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!                     No replies
WMOIS::WESCHE                                        23 lines   7-MAY-1992 12:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Recommendations wanted...
    
    I have several(2-3) gouges in the side of my boat(from a dock cleat
    with bolts) which are 3-5 inches long, 3/8 inches wide and down to the
    fiberglass cloth.
    
    Its located across a blue gelcoat stripe into the white/lightgrey
    part of the hull.  To complicate matters, there is a contour change
    in the same area.
    
    I don't want to do this repair myself...  Also, I want it to look
    perfect(read undetectable) when it is repaired.  Colors/surface
    must match too.
    
    I'm looking for a repair perfectionist.  I live in Gardner, MA but will
    go to Southern NH or MA.  Any thoughts...
    
    Also, any idea how much this might cost, and time to repair?
    
    All suggestions welcome !!!
    
    Dave
    

    
    	1st Class Fiberglass is now located in Plymouth, Ma and
    the new phone number is 508-830-0081.
    
    	Contact has been made with the "guy that would give a good
    deal" on repairing the "beach bow" of the Nautique. I'm gathering
    further info since 300-500 clams per Nautique sounds kinda steep.
    (huh, Reg?)
    
    Rick

    Rick,
    There's a product called "Keel Cap" that used to advertise in 
    Trailer Boats Magazine.  It's some type of an epoxy or plastic
    strip that is shaped to cover the forward portion of the keel,
    the part that gets scraped against the beach and worn down.
    Keel Cap is supposed to fix existing damage and/or protect 
    against future scraping.
    
    I seem to remember that you put it in place, then final shaping 
    and attachment was done with heat.  I also remember that it wasn't 
    real cheap, although quite a bit less than "300-500 clams". 
    
    Rick

    How about "Keel Guard"?  (Translucent,easy to apply, complete with
    installation tool).  No price.
    
    Mega-ware
    2415 S. Redwood Rd.
    Woods Cross, Utah 84087
    (801) 292-9835
    
    "Dealer opportunities available!!"

    Sounds close, that's probably it.  
    
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most...   8^)
    
    Rick

    The "Keel Guard" one sounds like it gets glued-on and the installation
    sounds "user friendly".  Other's I've seen advertised called for
    "qualified professional" for installation.  That sounded pretty scary!
    My boat still has the original stainless steel keel guard. 
    Replacements are still available for $300.  I'll put up with the
    little dings in it for now.
    Wayne

    
    Sometimes thing are just too damn obvious! :-0
    
    I just talked to Craig at New England Correct Craft and he guessed
    about $150.00 to fix the '87. Sounds reasonable and I'd assume he
    would definately know what he was doing. Didn't he fix the FBB after
    someone in this file ran it into the rocks? Any comments on his work,
    Reg?
    
    Craig said he could work on the boat sometime after January 1st.
    
    Rick

    
    Taking the last reply literally.......
    
    >                                        Didn't he fix the FBB after
    >someone in this file ran it into the rocks? Any comments on his work,
     ^^^^^^^                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Ahhhh geesshhh, it was terrible! You should have seen the undercarriage
    of the boat. Bent and mangled hardware everywhere. Shards of fiberglass
    hanging loose. Takin' in water thru the ruptured hull. Just terrible!! 
    :^) I definately wouldn't have "him" drive my boat down river after
    what happened to the FBB.
    
    Now, as for NECC, my footin' fiend from the lake swears by NECC. They
    have done some glass work in the past which he was very impressed with.
    My only suggestion would be that you wait until after this weekend to
    drop the boat off. I mean, if you're gonna head out Sunday you'ld want
    all the damage fixed at once. The front of your hull wasn't designed as
    an 'ice-breaker'. :^)
    
    ~jeff 
    
    

	Its, err, prolly a good idea and a good deal.   Unlike Y're
local 'vette glass guy (no disrespect, they're pro's too)  Craig's
prob'ly seen a few other Nautiques that have suffered similar abrasion
from being run down ski slopes and such.  That shop of theirs is well
equiped, heated, and bigger than most local glass shops (typically a
house garage door wide).  Its quiet season too (I think ?), but give 
'em time to recover from the season's festivities (-:

	Oh, "authentic factory authorized restorative schtuff..." 
looks better on the boat's resume when the time comes to....Y'know.

	Reg


P.S.	I wonder if he could glass in a titaniu....  <never mind>

    Oooh, the pain of that day lingers in my spine (and my brain).  I've
    yet to experience a feeling that even remotely resembles that "thwap!
    ... thwah thwah thwah ..." and I hope I never do again.
    
    However, if memory serves, the "factory authorized" work on the FBB was
    quite good.  I guess if the price is competitive, I'd bring it back to
    NECC.
    
    I have no service experience with NECC, but I did have a parts purchase
    experience with those guys when I was a rookie boater that wasn't too
    good.  I needed a new steering cable, ordered it through them ($160) and
    later found it in the Overton's catalog for half that amount!  Live and
    learn.
    
    ...Roger...

    I need a little input here. 
    
    I am in process of building a small johnboat out of 1/4 inch AC
    plywood.  I want to encapsulate the boat with one coat of fiberglass.
    I have never worked with fiberlgass, with the exception of some
    surfboard repair many moons ago.
    
    I have a friend who has 7 square yards of fiberglass material he
    is going to sell me for $25.  AFter checking around town, this seems
    like a good deal, so I am going to jump on it.
    
    Questions:
    
    After cutting the fiberglass material to fit the boat, I know I have
    to apply a resin/catalyst liquid.  Do I apply it to the plywood, then
    lay the fiberglass on top, and then apply more resin/catalyst, or Do
    I lay the fiberglass, then pour the mixture on top and spread it all
    over?  Also , how thick do I put it on?  Moist, or dripping wet?  I
    will ask the guy in the boat supply store as well when I pick up the
    resin and catalyst.
    
    Any tips on glassing would be greatly appreciated, as I will be
    glassing this Saturday, only because there is a forcast of snow.
    
    Thanks,
    Bob
    

re      <<< Note 21.26 by ODIXIE::RHARRIS "work to live, not live to work!" >>>
>                            -< need glassing tips >-

>    Questions:
    
>    After cutting the fiberglass material to fit the boat, I know I have
>    to apply a resin/catalyst liquid.  Do I apply it to the plywood, then
>    lay the fiberglass on top, and then apply more resin/catalyst, or Do
>    I lay the fiberglass, then pour the mixture on top and spread it all
>    over?  Also , how thick do I put it on?  Moist, or dripping wet?  I
>    will ask the guy in the boat supply store as well when I pick up the
>    resin and catalyst.

	I think you're supposed to first seal the plywood with a coat 
of resin/catalyst mixture and let that set up.  Then I think you paint 
or roller on another coat, lay the glass cloth on and roller it so the 
resin/catalyst wets up through the cloth.  Repeat for as many layers 
as you want/need, etc.  This is from memory, it may be that the sealer 
coat is mixed to a different ration of resin/hardner ??

>    Any tips on glassing would be greatly appreciated, as I will be
>    glassing this Saturday, only because there is a forcast of snow.

	There are some free tips leaflets available from boat  "stuff"
suppliers (chandlers ?) that carry the  WEST  line of products.  
Around here they can be found on the rack right beside (guess)  
"WEST  products"  - -  which I understand to be reputable.  I know 
Gauch carries them, I think Bliss does too, probably Boat US also.
I don't know which area you're in, but all three of those are in New 
England US, two of them have other locations.

>    Thanks,
>    Bob

	Reg
    

	re .26  and as a follow on to  .27

	The WEST leaflets also give tips on what tools to use, how 
much to overlap layers of cloth, pot life  and  MOST IMPORTANTLY !  
SAFETY  PRECAUTIONS  in particular about keeping the stuff out of your 
eyes and the need to avoid breathing the fumes, flamability, what to 
clean up with - and what to NOT clean up with, etc.

	Reg

    As Reg pointed out, West System has products and instructions
    specifically intended for glassing the bottom of a wooden boat.
    I believe they also produce a video tape, which can be borrowed
    or rented from stores which carry their products.
    
    One of the key things to keep in mind, is that fiberglass resin
    by itself is weak and very brittle.  It provides very little
    inherent strength, so adding "extra" resin only adds more weight.
    The strength of fiberglass comes from the type of cloth used and
    the quality of the application, which is why so many builders are 
    big on things like woven Kevlar, bi-axial glass, etc.  You want 
    to to use as little resin as possible, only enough to fully wet 
    out the cloth that you're applying.  In your case, I imagine the 
    glass is being used mainly to waterproof the hull and minimize 
    maintenance, so strength and multiple layers of resin and glass 
    aren't quite so critical anyway.  But keeping resin to a minimum 
    will help keep the boat light(er), which should be important to 
    you.
    
    Rick

re .26:

Are you proposing to use polyester resin (the most common resin used to 
build fiberglass boats) or epoxy resin? Epoxy resin (WEST is a good brand 
of epoxy resin) adheres to wood quite significantly better than 
polyester. Epoxy resin is, in my opinion, much, much easier to use and 
work with than polyester. One of the major advantages of epoxy is that 
it does not have any solvents in it nor does it give off fumes when 
curing. I've used gallons of the stuff in my basement and my significant 
other has never complained (and she is never bashful about expressing 
concern about such matters). The only drawback to epoxy is cost. The 
WEST literature explains in detail how to apply fiberglass cloth and 
resin.

Have fun.

Oh yes, you have to paint epoxy to prevent damage from the UV in 
sunlight.

	I've been using Epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth on my
	boat, a '58 Thompson.   It's the first time I've ever worked
	with epoxy and fiberglass, but it's very easy to use. I'm
	using a product called System Three Boatbuilders Epoxy.  There's
	no odor, cleanup is easy if you use rubber gloves, disposable 	
	brushes, etc.  Very very strong stuff.  Amazing strength.  It's
	supposed to be flexible and very suitable to wood boat building.
	
	A few of you might remember the boat I mentioned above, the
	one with the hogged hull.   What a project this is turning out
	to be!   In the process of removing/replacing the floor I found
	a solid hull, which was great, but I also found a few cracked ribs.  
	I'm using a laminating technique to patch up the ribs. It works 
	great with the epoxy and oak laminates.  The process involves
	sanding a smooth concave in area on either sides of the crack.
	Homemade oak laminates which bend real easy are epoxied layer after
	layer.  It looks great and should work great too.

	Then I decided to thoroughly check out the transom which was showing 
	some rot.  Turns out it was rotted pretty bad, but the main
	problem was a couple of huge carpenter ant nests!  The transom
	would have crumbled like styrofoam this summer if I hadn't
	discovered it.  So the transom had to go to save the boat. Last 
	night, the final stage of totally removing the transcom was 
	completed.   

	The next step is to build a new transom, which was 2'' thick
	except for the lowest portion which takes another inch of wood.
	I'll be using 1 inch oak planks shiplapped and epoxied together
	to form a 2 x 1'' thick sheets.  Then I'll epoxy the 2 sheets
	together, cut to form, and install.  Once that is done, the boat
	will be very solid.

	The hull is straightening out great too. 

	I better catch some nice fish this summer!

	Ken

	Maybe my previous reply should be moved to the repairing *Wooden*
	boats note...

	Ken

    Unless you like the look of a giant t*rd, you can add resin
    colorant, and get something that looks not too awful in one
    pass.  I used artist's oil paint when I was building a test
    tank, and it worked fine, as well.

    Although, I suppose a giant t*rd is somewhat theft resistant.

    Thanks for all the replies.
    
    I have been using "Evercoat" epoxy resin, and hardener, for glueing the
    pieces of wood together.  also, I have been using double dipped (in
    zinc) screws to attach the wood etc.  So the screwing and the glueing,
    this thing is sturdy.
    
    The encapsulation is my option, to insure waterproofness.  I was
    planning on painting the boat AFTER the fiberglass job.  I am planning
    on using some type of marine grade paint, if necessary.
    
    The Evercoat resin/epoxy and hardener, also stated that besides being
    a glue, it works as an epoxy for fiberglassing.  It costs $60 a gallon.
    I have about 2/3 gallon left.
    
    I guess in summary, I will get all the details at the boat supply store
    when I get there in the morning.
    
    Again, thanks for the tips, and input.
    
    tight lines,
    bob
    

    Well I did the glassing Saturday morning.  Turned out pretty good.  
    Tonight I will sand down some of the roughness, and attach the keel,
    runners, and gunnels.
    
    Then I have to paint it, put the raised floor in, put in the seats, and
    go fishing.
    
    bob
    

    
    Well, the Nautique is back from it's winter vacation in Gonic, NH
    at New England Correct Craft. The glass/gelcoat work looks quite
    nice. Craig fixed the bow area that had been beached 100 too many times
    and also a 6-8' by 5" area along both the starboard and port chines.
    
    So $746.25 later.... and it sounds better than ever cruising up
    the Merrimack at WOT!
    
    Rick

	Another rainy saturday...  oh well, time to price shop on misc 
stuff and kick a few tires at the used car place and kick some keels 
and rudders at the used boat place.

	I know this isn't the  "generic parts vs authentic marine 
dealer parts"  topic, but I thought I'd tire kick the price of resin 
this week-end, roughly;

	NAPA outlet			$29.9x  a gallon  $9.9x a quart
					(hardner included)

	Gauche marine supplies	

		generic resin, probably polyester, though I didn't bother
		to look closely 	$ 45 a gallon 
		(hardner extra, though I vaguely remember it was "cheap")

		WEST epoxy resin ("A"  I think)   $ 55 a gallon
		(use 3:1 or 5:1 according to what you're doing, 
		probably works out to about $60 a gallon)  Yeah, I 
		KNOW you get more volume when you add the catalyst,
		but that's more expensive than the resin and this is
		an approximation of the per gallon cost. 

	So, the stuff that body shops fix Corvettes with is about 1/2 
the price of totl (top of the line) west brand epoxy - it might not be 
coast guard approved or as impermeable as west's epoxy, but its 
probably a better deal than the generic boatyard polyester resin @ 
150% the price.

	Reg

PS 	Std disclaimers apply, I ain't a poly chemist and I don't play
	one on TV.   Use at your own risk.  Close cover before striking, etc. 

    There is a bigger difference between polyester resin and
    epoxy resin than the price.   

    Try applying polyester resin over foam.

    I get polyester resin from a place in Springfield for
    $14.50/gallon so NAPA is no bargain.   The place has good
    prices on System 3, if you do need the 'higher priced
    spread'...

    Merton's Fiberglass Supply�   413 736-0348

    	- Lee

    �I have no connection with anyone living or dead.

re:                      <<< Note 21.39 by RTL::LINDQUIST >>>

>    I get polyester resin from a place in Springfield for
>    $14.50/gallon so NAPA is no bargain.   The place has good
>    prices on System 3, if you do need the 'higher priced
>    spread'...
>
>    Merton's Fiberglass Supply�   413 736-0348


	I've been getting System 3 Epoxy and all sorts of stuff (brass
	screws, marine sealants, etc) for my old Thompson from this place.
	No complaints: fast service, cheap delivery, and great prices.
	The current price for System 3 Epoxy is 
		
		1 1/2 quart unit:	$25.00
		3 qt unit:		$47.00
		1 1/2 gallon unit:	$78.00
		
	Price/gallon decreases the more you order.

	Another thing I like about System 3 is that it has virtually no odor
	or fumes.  It makes great wood glue too.

	Ken

Hi,

	Would someone tell me how to fix the surface hairline cracks in 
the gelcoat.  What we want to do is paint the boat, but I would think that
the cracks in the gelcoat need to be fixed first.  We have a couple of spots
that will need to be repaired with fiberglass, but that process I think has
already been discussed, and a fellow noter in here has already done the 
fiberglass work on his boat, and he sits in the next office. :^)  He wasn't
sure about fixing the small surface cracks though.

Thanks,
Gregg

A related entry is also posted in SAILING.

Our 22 foot ODay Sailboat was hit by lightning back in October just before
we were going to haul her for the season. The lightning exited from the VHF 
antenna cable through the side of the boat taking a portion of the gelcoat 
when the residual moisure in the glass exploded.

There are also about 6 places under the cockpit locker where the Loran Antenna
cable ran that did the same. One of those was severe enough to provide
access for sea water. Luckily the bulkhead between the locker and the cabin
was high enough to prevent the bulk of the water from flowing further forward.

Dan Rutherford of Ocean Marine Specialties (Assigned by BOAT US) has suggested
LAKES REGION FIBERGLASS in Belmont NH just south of Laconmia on route 140.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks?

My experience with Ocean Marine has been good, and BOAT US guarantees the work
of approved vendors. I am prepared to tow the boat up there but would be more
comfortable after hearing of some first (or second) hand experience.

One of the reasons for the suggestion of Lakes Region Fg was that they have 
the special equipment to turn the boat over without stressing the hull in
order to work on the bottom.

When the hull work is done, we will be interested in recomendations for some one
in the Marblehead to Cape Ann area to do the electrical work. The boat is to be 
comletely rewired as well as replacement of all of the exterior light fixtures.

For any body in the MRO area, I have a set of pictures in the office.
Thanks, Fred

    Voyager Marine Electronics in Essex is tops for electronics sales
    and service.
    
    Bruce

    I had both hulls of my 17' Supercat catamaran re-gelcoated from the
    Stripes (about midpoint) down to the keels. Steve Price (owner of 
    Lakes Region Fiberglass) did the work. He did a real good job for a
    good price. Steve's speciality is rebuilding wrecked boats.  He always
    has a few damaged boats around being redone. I reccommend his work. The
    only problem I had was betting the boat back when I needed it. But I
    would use him again. I also bought a powerboat trailer from him, and
    had him Buff out my 21' Liberator.

    Sounds like the people I should be talking to. My boat's out of the
    water, it does need some good FG work, and it's in the NH Lakes Region. 
    
    Do you have any idea whether they have space to hang onto it over the
    winter before and after they've worked on it?
    
    Any idea how they charge? Time and materials? By firm estimate?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

My understanding is that they have some 85 boats to work on this winter.
But when I talked to Steve yesterday he said he would have no problem
getting mine done in time to have it back down here to have the electrical 
work done well before the beginning of the season.  

I am scheduled to take the boat up this Saturday. I have some extra things that
I will get an estimate on. I would also like to have the boot stripe adjusted. 
The starboard side of the boat where the OB hangs, sits low and becomes a 
magnet for all sorts of aquatic life form. 

Lakes Region's phone is 603-267-7665. 

As far as price, most of the work will be covered by insurance and will be 
negotiated between Steve and Dan Rutherford representing BOAT US. 

I will post anything I learn this weekend.

Thanks for the replies, 

Fred

    I managed to put a small crack in the bottom of my boat along the keel
    line in the rear. The boat slipped off the roller and hit the metal on
    the roller of the trailer. The keel is slightly pushed in for a 1/2
    inch and there is 3/4 inch crack letting water into the bottom of the
    boat. Someone recommended using GLUVIT to seal the crack. Has anyone
    has experience on using this product to fix small cracks, or is there
    more to fixing this crack? any advice would be appreciated.

    I own a '63 Starcraft aluminum that had several areas where the rivets
    were loosening and water was getting in. I used a product called
    Marine Tex and covered all the loose areas. This product advertises
    that it "hardens like steel" and it does. Easy to apply with a putty
    knife. Work area was scoured with a brisle brush to help in the
    adhesion process. Cheap way to fix a serious problem. $6.90 for the
    small kit and $19.95 for large. Can be purchased at any boat dealer
    or by mail from Overton's.
    
     

    Hi,
    	I'm looking for a place in the central mass area to do a gel
    coat repair.  I've seen the previous recommendations in this string
    for 1st class fiberglass and the place in Laconia.  But both of those
    are over 2 hours from me.  There has got to be someone a little
    closer that can do a good job.  
    
    	This is a relatively small chip out of a colored area (blue)
    on the bow from hitting some bolts sticking out from a dock this
    past weekend.  DIY is not an option for us.  My husband wants it
    to be perfect !  Anyways the boat is a 1994 1/2 Flightcraft.  
    
    Any recommendations ?
    
    Thanks,
    	Denise
    

    Denise,
      You should call East Coast Flightcraft and see who they recommend. 
    That way, the right gelcoat (polyester resin?) will be used so the
    color will match, rather than someone trying to mix it to match.  I
    used Lakes Region Fiberglass, but got the gelcoat (Dragon Red) sent
    from Malibu.  Your boat is new enough where fading is not yet a problem
    so matching should be identical (with the right stuff).
      BTW, the parts dept at Malibu can be reached at 1-209-383-7491 and
    Dan Farmer is the guy to talk to...
    Good Luck,
    Doug_'87 Malibu owner

    Thanks for the info Doug. 
    
    Where is East Coast Flightcraft located ?
    
    Did you know the right name for the color when you called Malibu
    or can they figure it out for you somehow.  We don't have the
    color sheets anymore so I'm not sure what shade of blue I need.
    
    Denise
    

    East Coast Flightcraft is in Danvers, MA (508-777-1721) but I don't
    know who they use for gelcoat work (Where did you get your boat?)
    
    Dan Farmer at Malibu would know what color your boat is by either hull
    serial number, or if you could describe the shade of blue to him
    (maybe).  For example, in '87 there was ice blue, powder blue, polar
    blue and midnight blue (I'm looking at the '87 color chart...) and
    since I ordered my boat, I know that it's Dragon Red/ Strato Black
    with Charcoal Gray, Cadet Gray and Crystal White stripes :^)
    
    Doug

    Doug,
    	We got our boat from Valley Marine in N.H.  I called there 
    service dept and they do gel coat repairs ... but the service
    dept crew sounded like "dumb and dumber".  The guy told me that
    they would take a chip from the boat and send it to Malibu to 
    mathc the color (yikes !).  Anyways I don't trust them. I'd like to
    go somewhere where I can get a first hand reference.
    
    	We ordered our boat also, I just have to dig up the color
    charts to see what we got.  The Dragon Red/ Strato Black ...
    scheme sounds impressive !
    
    Denise
    

    In case any one else needs to know ...
    
    I spoke to Dan Lemieux at Eastcoast Flightcraft.  They do gel coat
    repairs there (told me he had the best guy around !).  So I think
    I'm going to take it there.  At least he sounds like he knows what
    he is talking about.  Unfortunately I won't be able to let you
    know how it all turns out as I'm leaving Digital next week.
    
    He also told me that Vally Marine is no longer a Malibu dealer.
    
    Denise
    

    Denise,
    
    I bought my Flightcraft O/B from Dan and have always been 
    happy with his service.  When I bought my boat from him
    there had been a few scratches on the boat before I picked 
    it up.  Dan got them fixed and the boat looked just fine
    when I picked it up.  Tell Dan I say "Hi" if you end up 
    working with him.  I think (and hope) you will be happy.
    
    Mike Smith

    Blue is one of the worst colors to match, because the uv eats it 
    alive. A perfect match at the beginning will fade some extra and be
    off later. All I am trying to say is perfection is a hard thing to
    accomplish with a blue boat.  A match that is close can be done by
    any good fibreglas person worth their salt. There is an excellant 
    video on doing this from some guy out of michigan. He looks like a
    a yard worker,and the video is not exactly first class, but he knows
    his stuff on matching. I have used it and it works well. Boat US rents
    it.
    
    john
    
    ps the trick is to keep slapping samples on the hull next to where the
    patch is going to go, BUT WITHOUT HARDNER. Once you cannot see where you
    smeared some, it is right, so catalyze it. There is no difference in
    color once catalyzed unless you made too hot of a batch which can
    darken it. But who wants to overcoke a really brittle substance in the
    first place?