Conference vicki::boats

    	Can you get a service manual from OMC? Usually you can order
    them direct. 
    Paul
    p.s. I second the idea of staying away from the "proffessionals";
    not just because of co$t but quality mechanics are hard to come
    by and you will probably do a better job yourself.

    I don't know of any myself, but have the same interest. I have an
    older boat (a 1971) and have had it since 1983. I have always had
    a marine service center do the tuneups and winterizing. It's 
    amazing with what they come up with for unexpected needed repairs.
    My boat was running fine last summer - a little hard getting it
    into reverse, but that's it.
    
    "Winterizing" it ended up costing me over $500.00 (It "needed" a
    gimble bearing), and tuning it up cost over $300.00 (needed a
    water pump on the engine). That's close to $900.00 for what I
    figured was going to be under $300 (I should know by now).
    
    Maybe it did need all that stuff, but EVERY time I have any work
    done on it - it's always WAY over what I expected. I even tried
    changing mechanics - maybe my boat's just too old, I don't know.
    
    I'd like to start winterizing and "summerizing" myself, mostly for
    this reason - but I'm also wary about doing it for the reason that I
    may not know when something really needs to be fixed.

    Anyway - I guess I'm letting off a little steam, but would like
    to start doing my own, too, to hopefully save some $$$ without
    inadvertently causing the engine to seize!

    Good luck!

    Bill

    Understand the $$$$ issue, but you can't walk home when fails. I
    do the winterizing myself every year (Mercruiser 120 I/O '72) and
    replace plugs & points every other year. The odd years, I have a
    GOOD mechanic do a tune up. 
    Last year near the end of the season, It would stall out in rough
    water while trolling (not good) so I made sure a mechanic saw it
    this spring---cracked distributor cap that I never would have found.
    Some things I find important to do;
    ---every two or three outings, grease gimble bearings with a hand
    gun
    ---change fuel filters EVERY year (There are two on the Merc)
    ---Change the oil/filter at least once each year.
    ---Change the outdrive oil when I winterize
    ---Clean the back flame arrestor twice a season
    
    Also, if you fill your tanks (gas) from a service station pump,
    check fuel hoses and lines carefully!!! "Pump" gas has alcohol in
    it now to offset lead and increase octain ratings. Alcohol will
    break down fuel lines. There is a new C.G. approved "Alcohol Resistant"
    line for tank-to-fuel pump that will solve the problem. If yours
    is stiff (fuel line), replace it before it goes "BOOM"! I'm told
    marine gas doesn't have the alcohol (I don't believe it).
    
    Anyway, this combo of mechanic and self seems to give me good
    reliability and minimizes $$$$$. (more to spend on fishing gear)
    
    Keep it Hummin !
    
    Don
    

    Jim...
    
    Here's a modified version of a note I posted in the old BOATS notesfile
    regarding outboard and I/O shop manuals.  Give Overton's a call
    to check on the availability of a version which covers '87 OMCs.
    Hope this helps.
    
    OMC Stern Drives, '64-'85.  Covers all GM inline, V-6, V-8 and Ford
    inline, V-8.  Covers Electramatic, 400 and 800 drives.  438 pages.
    Overton's price...$16.95.  S&H is $3.50.  Order number 20226.
    
    			Overton's
    			111 Red Banks Road
    			P.O. Box 8228
    			Greenville, N.C. 27835-8228
    			1-800-334-6541
    
    						...Roger...
    
    P.S.  For anyone else looking for shop manuals, Overtons' carries
    	  the following:  (they're all $16.95)
    
    		Evinrude/Johnson 2-40HP outboards ('73-'86)
    		Evinrude/Johnson 1.5-125HP outboards ('56-'72)
    		Evinrude/Johnson 50-235HP outboards ('73-'87)
		Mercury 3.5-4HP outboards ('72-'87)
		Mercury 3.9-135HP outboards ('64-'71)
		Mercury 50-225HP outboards ('72-'87)
		Chrysler/Force 3.5-140HP (all)
		MerCruiser Stern Drives ('64-'87)
		OMC Stern Drives ('64-'85)
		Volvo Stern Drives ('68-'85)

    With the help of Rick Suter ( Rick thanks.) I managed to order such
    a service manual from France, so I guess where ever you are living
    in the world you call 1-919-355-7600 ask for the customer service
    and order what you need. They asked you for your credit card number
    and they charge you a little more for the S@H in my case it will
    be around $7.--

	Does anybody out there have Power Steering???  I have a problem,
	(I think), with mine.  I have a Mercruiser 165 I/O pushing a 2000#
	(dry/empty) boat.  When cruising, slightly out of neutral...if I
	turn he steering wheel substantialy to either side I feel a shimmy
	as the steering wheel is turning.  The shimmy isn't felt through the 
	wheel, I feel it through the hull.  I can't feel the shimmy at high 
	speeds either.  It feels like the prop may not be balanced except it 
	only happens when I turn the wheel, also it happens with all my props 
	plus all my props are new anyway.  This may not sound realistic 
	however;  I'm certain that the problem is centered around the Power 
	Steering.  The belt and fluid level are fine.  I'm not sure if bleeding 
	is even an issue however;  there must be another componant, (piston), 
	that actually moves the drive, could this need bleeding?????

	Any help or experiance???

	rgds__mike

    re .6	Yes, I have power steering, Mercruiser, probably similar,
    I'll guess at this one and consult the manuals later.  It might
    just be that there is slack/slop somewhere in the outdrive bearings
    and that this slack gets taken up by the torque reaction when you
    apply power.  When the boat is on its trailer how much loseness
    can you feel side to side if you try to shake the outdrive ?
    BTW, I'm assuming proper fluid level, remember they are very explicit
    about the  DO NOT OVERFILL  caution.

    	I'll check my manuals and watch for this symptom on my boat,
    not that I ever do much off of full throttle in the normal course
    of things:-^)
    
    	R
    
    PS, or a slightly slipping belt ?
    

>    								It might
>    just be that there is slack/slop somewhere in the outdrive bearings
>    and that this slack gets taken up by the torque reaction when you
>    apply power.  When the boat is on its trailer how much loseness
>    can you feel side to side if you try to shake the outdrive ?
>    PS, or a slightly slipping belt ?


	The boat is about 80 hours old including the steering.  I'll
	try to shake the outdrive this evening but I seem to remember
	that I've done that before only to find it tighter than a drum.

	The belt was loose and the fluid low but this condition exsisted
	from day one when the belt and fluid were fine.  I've since filled 
	the fluid resivoir and tightened the belt with no improvement.

	The condition is slightly beyond subtle but still no big deal,
	however;  my warentee is up in August and if I can't locate and
	fix the cause myself, (no greasy fingerprints and plenty of TLC)
	I'll bring the boat back to the dealer and throw a nut fit if 
	necessary.  I must stress that a dealer fix, even a free one, is 
	the last option due to the aforementioned criteria and the fact 
	that my interior is basically white, at least for the time being.

	thanx for the reply__mike__any others??
	

    I have a 230 merc i/o with ps. I notice that at low rpm there is
    a little hesitation (or a choppy) feeling in the steering. At high
    rpm it is smooth as silk. The boat has about 250 hrs on it and
    has been profressionally maintained.
    
    This is just my experience to pass along...
    
    
    Bruce

    re .8	I think you should get it back to the dealer ASAP anyway.
    Even if they don't agree that something might be wrong at least
    you will have established a record of an impending failure/possible
    latent defect that might help you if it all lets go on warranty
    expiration date +1.  I'd try to get it in there two or three times
    before the warranty expires, and Yeah,  "throw a nut fit"  anyway.
    If I'd at least registered a groan with an authorized Merc Svc dealer
    last summer when my boat started to lose power I MIGHT have got
    some help out of Mercury for the blown head gasket and fire cracked
    block.  I just happen to have (of course) the Regional Mercury Service
    rep's # handy  609-655-3571, Dave Hanarty.  It may be worth a phone
    diagnosis with him and ask him to log it, have your serial numbers
    ready, etc.
    
    	Regarding the problem itself, I s'pose you've checked hoses
    for kinks, tight bends, other kinds of restriction, etc.  just a
    thought.
    
    	R
    

    
    Sounds like you may want to have the alignment of the engine
    and outdrive checked. This is supposed to be checked at the
    factory and then again each time the drive is removed. It req-
    uires a special tool so you can't do it yourself. If you have
    an alignment problem it may be aggravated by when the drive is
    turned to either side, causing the vibration that you have.
    
           
    Rick W.

    I have a Merc 260 with power steering and had very similar
    symptoms but they were not related to power steering problems.
    I had my prop rebalanced and this helped a little.
                               
    
    Later on, and totally unrelated,I developed severe I/O problems and
     installed a new I/O unit.  This also resolved the slight shuddering I was
    experiencing.  I suspect the problem was a result of some
    slight  wear in the U-joint and the symptoms show up as you
    start to stress the U-joint in a turn.    

    If you are planning on going to the dealer a couple of times in order
    to establish a record, then do the job right and take a witness along.
    Be sure the witness is not a relative or overly close friend. 

	Thanx for all the replies!  I think its all mute now.  I went
	to Sebego this past weekend and got caught in a severe storm.
	My boat was beached and because I have an automatic bilge pump,
	I was one of three out of six that didn't sink.  In the process
	of taking the boat out I hit the lower unit hard, and it looks 
	like it, now it would seem that warrentee is out of the question.
	When the dealer sees my skeg and gear housing...there's no way
	he'll agree to a warrentee repair on the steering...not to mention
	the one cubic inch divit in my keel and six inch gouge in the side
	and Stainless Steel prop that could now double as a cross cut saw.

	Another question....Because I don't like the mechanics at my dealer,
	I've called around to several other dealers.  All but one laughed at 
	me, in fact most said they wouldn't service what they didn't sell.
	I know that this is illegal because.....just like auto dealerships,
	if they sell it new then they must provide service for it regardless
	of where it was bought.  Anyway;  Middlesex Power and Marine talked
	intellegently to me, was polite and to the point.  The gentleman
	told me that if I had my boat serviced there that I would go there
	for the rest of my boating needs, indicating that their service 
	was far superior to most, even when I brought up my greaseball
	dilhema.  On top of all this, they do their own gelcoat and aluminum
	work where most other dealers farm out.  Does anyone have comments/
	experiances with them??  I'm going up for an insurance estimate 
	tomorrow eve.

    I dealt with Middlesex Power many years ago (8-10 yrs) when I lived in
    Mass. I was happy with their service and they seemed competant.
    Now back then the owner was the chief mechanic. I don't know if
    that is the case anymore.

    I recently bought a  Boston Whaler with Mercury OB from Middlesex
    Marine and I was quite impressed with the service dept. The day I picked up the boat.
    They ensured we understood everything (routine maintenance, operation,
    etc.) before we left.  Not one of those "you bought it, now you're
    on your own" places.  I guess when we go back for the 20hr checkup
    we'll know for sure.
    
    Later,
    Brian
    

	The gentleman at Middlesex Power and Marine, (Rich) dropped
	his tools when I got there, washed his hands and proceeded
	to talk me out of laying my boat up for repairs.  Rich 
	suggested a method to fix my power steering problem, (load the 
	control valve up with grease until grease comes out of the seal-
	--worked like a champ).  Rich also advised me on how to clean
	up the messy skeg and prop edges...in other words, I'm not
	filing a claim.  The damage is about $500.00 but with my own
	effort, I can fix it for about $50.00.  Of course I won't have
	a new lower unit but we came to the conclusion that I will suffer
	zero performance loss if I do the work correctly.  I'm reasonably
	confident that things will pan out.  Based on my one visit to
	M P & M, I'd go there again.  The shop is clean, the people are 
	polite and everybody was very attenive.

	P.S.  The control valve took alot of grease.

	_mb

    Does anyone know what the Fram oil filter number is for a Mercruiser
    7.4l (a chevy 454) is? Any other mfg's filter number will do, I'll 
    do a cross reference.

               
    Thanks
    Steve

	My 1988 OMC 5.7L (4valve) takes the same Oil Filter as the equivelent
GM car engine (A/C PF35).  Try using the year, block mfgr (i.e. GM, FORD, etc)
and displacement (5.0L, 5.7L) at your local parts store and they will usually
be able to get you the correct filter.

I want to check the timing on my boat (3.0L GM, OMC Outdrive).  Unfortunately,
the owner's manual does not specify the timing.  I found an OMC-like manual
that went to 1988, but I suspect that things have changed since then.  I did
find a sticker on the engine that stated 0�.  My current reading is 12�!  Seems
odd that the two numbers are that far off.  BTW, the engine appears to be running
ok.  I'm using 89 Octane gas.

Anyway, I just sent away for the official '91 OMC manual.  To satisfy my 
curiousity while I wait, does anyone know what the number is??


/Chris

RE: .20

If there is a sticker on the motor that says timing should be set at
0�, that's probably with the vacuum advance hose (if there is one)
disconnected.  Try disconnecting and plugging the hose and see if the 
timing drops back from 12� to 0�.

It's doubtful that the engine is running 12� beyond what it calls for.
You'd be seeing/hearing severe pinging problems on 89 octane gas, as 
well as a very fast idle.  Since you say it runs ok, chances are it's 
pretty close to spec.

Rick

Rick,
You've figured out where I'm heading.  I cannot get the idle down to spec - it's
about 200 or so too high.  When I bring it down, the engine runs poorly - thus
I decided to check the timing.

I have a call into OMC.  Believe it or not, they logged it and a technician will
(?) be calling me back.

Remember the note on the sticky shifting?  Seems that the engine was idling too
high for the transmission to go into neutral easily - OMC doesn't want the
IO to drop out of gear too soon.  The dealer dropped the idle slightly, but now
I'm not happy with the rough idle.


It's always something...


/C

I've been reading this notes file for over 6 years, and I learned a great
deal. I read through all the maintenance and tune-up topics but couldn't find
the answers to the following questions, So here goes.


  
   Well it's time for a tune-up, I think?  The engine is running fine, put
it been 3 years since the last tune-up, so it's probably a good idea to do 
one this year. The boat has a 1990 OMC 5.7L King Cobra stern drive in it. 

I got a price from the local marina, BIG $$$$$. So I have decided to try it
myself. I have a reasonably amount of mechanical ability, at least for cars. I
always tune-up my own cars.  Brakes, Mufflers...etc.

My question is, where can I get the parts, The marina said they would sell me
the parts, but again they get $5.00 per plug! Isn't the 5.7L engine a marine
version of the 350 chevy engine? Can't I go to any automotive store and buy
plugs, distributor cap and rotor, for a 1990 350ci engine?  Or do I need
special marine parts?

Also, what do you clean the flame arrester with.

Dave

    go to a NAPA store and get their marine catalog.  
    
    it has a wealth of info, including the conversion p/n's
    
    for their product.
    
    its almost easy/////
    
    
    JIm

    I concur with Jim.  I believe they charge $10 bucks for the catalog but
    you'll save that the first time you place an order.  
    
    If your flame arrestor is like mine (just a wire screen, no true
    airfiltering ability), I would use a spray carb cleaner or spray
    brake cleaner and let it air dry.
    Wayne

Thanks for the quick replies.  The person at NAPA told me to get the part
numbers off the existing parts, and call them in. After doing that I noticed
that OVERTONS has a tuneup kit for my boat. The price from OVERTONS was 
$14.00 more for distributer, points, condensor, and rotor then  
NAPA will charge. The cost on shipping was half the difference.

I was surpised to find out that there where POINTS in that year engine. I 
haven't set points in 12 years, put I still have a Dwell, and remote starter.

Question:  I noticed the carburetor was covered with a coating of oil. I assume
it was fogging oil? Is this normal? I also assume that it's not a problem on
the outside of the the carb, but its also all over the flame arrestor (which I
can clean easy enough) so it must be in the carburetor, can I clean the inside
of the carburetor with carburetor cleaner? Or is the chance for a back fire
to high?

2) Are there any tricks to getting at the plugs easier? On my boat the engine
sits low, I only have room to get my arm between the cockpit sole and engine,
the risers block my view. So I have to feel around to replace the plug.
Anyone ever try a mirror?

3) I have a water/gas separator and an inline gas filter. The marina changes
both for a tune up. I change the water/gas separator yearly, so the question
is, do I need to also change the inline gas filter? Which is messy, not to 
mention the gas that fills out. It's one thing to have it go on the gargage
floor, it's another to have it go in the bilge.

Thanks  Dave

��2) Are there any tricks to getting at the plugs easier? On my boat the engine
��sits low, I only have room to get my arm between the cockpit sole and engine,
��the risers block my view. So I have to feel around to replace the plug.
��Anyone ever try a mirror?
    On my boat, there is a fiberglass floor panel on each side of
    the engine well.  The panel is fairly easy to remove.  When
    it's removed, I can just get a socket wrench w/extension in
    horizontally.

    Another noter had a great suggestion -- stuff rags under
    where you're working.  I stuff rags along each side of the
    oil pan.  That way, when (not even if) I drop on of the spark
    plug, it doesn't roll to where it's unreacheable.

Question:  I noticed the carburetor was covered with a coating of oil. I assume
    
    Fogging oil used at the end of the season does not have to be cleaned
    from the inside of the carb. It is always possible that whoever 
    winterized it didnt bother to take off the flame arrester and simply 
    sprayed the oil 'at' it instead of directly into the carb.
    
    On the other hand, a good winterizing includes cleaning up
    the outside of the engine and spraying(wiping) it down with light oil
    as protection form rust.  That may be some  of what you are seeing.
    
2) Are there any tricks to getting at the plugs easier? On my boat the engine
sits low, I only have room to get my arm between the cockpit sole and engine,
the risers block my view. 
    
    Welcome to the world of boat maintainence.  Even on my Mercurser big 4, 
    where the plugs are at an angle right on top, the riser blocks the 
    rearmost plug and I've yet to find a wrench or socket that'll let me get 
    right at it.  One hint; use Never-Seez on plugs and other bolt threads 
    you have occasion to remove/replace.  It makes the job a lot easier next 
    time.
    
3) I have a water/gas separator and an inline gas filter. The marina changes
    
    The manual says change the inline filter every year as part of
    winterization.  I think that this is one of those 'personal things'.
    Some people will go a lifetime without changing one, others will change
    them religiously.  I keep a spare and dont change it each year.  Even
    if you do, one load of 'bad gas' can choke a brand new filter with crud.  
    
    
                                                    Tom

<Question:  I noticed the carburetor was covered with a coating of oil. I assume
<it was fogging oil? Is this normal? I also assume that it's not a problem on
<the outside of the the carb, but its also all over the flame arrestor (which I
<can clean easy enough) so it must be in the carburetor, can I clean the inside
<of the carburetor with carburetor cleaner? Or is the chance for a back fire
<to high?

   In your environment the prospect of a backfire is not as much of a concern
as it would be under "normal operating conditions".  The BIG problem the flame
arrestor solves is igniting trapped gas fumes due to a backfire. If you were
working on the engine, had all the hatches open, had good ventilation and YOU
DIDN'T SMELL GAS FUMES, then if you had a backfire it would do little more than
it would on your car. 

   Where things go BALOOHEY is when there is a small gas leak in the engine-well
or bilge, the fumes get trapped below deck and a spark during engine startup
sets it all off. This is why all electrical motors (pumps, alternators,
starters, blowers, etc) all have to be spark-free, AND, you're supposed to run
the blowers for 5 min before starting the engine, and you need a
spark-arrestor on your carb. If you're sure there are no fumes to ignite, then
you got no worry about a fire. 

   BUT... you can never be too safe....


Al

    I change my in line gas filter at the same time that I change my water
    separator filter.  The water sep. filter should be the lowest point in
    your fuel line.  I shut off the valves on both sides and remove the 
    canister.  I can then place a container under the filter housing and
    open the valve on the engine side.  As I start to unscrew the inline
    filter (mine screws into the carb, maybe different from yours) what gas
    is in the line flows down the line into the container.  The small
    amount that drips onto the intake manifold gets wiped up.  Any
    remaining evaporates relatively quickly and should not cause a problem
    as long as you aren't smoking a butt at the time.  Btw, I don't change
    my filters every year because I don't use the boat that much but,
    because I don't use the boat much, I expect alot of water condensation
    in the tank so I at least empty the gas/water separator at least once 
    a year plus add gas dryer periodically.  Here is another use for an old
    rag or towel held under the inline fuel filter when you un-screw it.
    
    I have a flexible coupler (kinda like a U-joint) that I use on my
    socket wrench when I am doing plugs on my Bronco II.  They are totally
    hidden due to A/C, air pump, etc.  By using different length extensions
    and the flexible coupler, I can manage to get to all the plugs even
    though I can't see them.  Note of caution:  Only use the socket wrench
    to break loose the plugs and to snug them down.  Remove/install them by
    hand if you can't see if they are going in straight.  You will be able
    to feel them better and avoid cross-threading the spark plug holes.
    Wayne

    
    I have 2 engines in mine.  One of them is very close to a water
    tank. I'd guess i have about 4" between the tank and the manifold.
    
    The fun part is getting the wire off the plug, as yo can only 
    use your wrist. Like Wayne mentioned, dont use the socket to
    put them in, put them in by hand, and hand tighten them, use the
    socket to snug them up......  don't over tighten them either.
    
    As for their removal its done by feel, its one of those things
    you just make up your mind that its gonna take time, and plan for
    it.
    
    Figure somewhere between 4-6 beers.......
    
    JIm
    

    The only time I have seen the plugs on my 460 was when I had the
    manifolds and risers off. Just shut your eyes and do it by feel.
    Also a sparkplug wire puller (pliers) helps alot for geting the
    boots on and off.
    
    I can do the plugs now in about a 20-30 minutes.
    
    Bruce

Thanks for the quick replies.  The person at NAPA told me to get the part
numbers off the existing parts, and call them in. After doing that I noticed
that OVERTONS has a tuneup kit for my boat. The price from OVERTONS was 
$14.00 more for distributer, points, condensor, and rotor then  
NAPA will charge. 

I was surpised to find out that there where POINTS in that year engine. I 
Thanks for all the suggestions and help.  The person at NAPA just told me he
has all the parts in except the distributor cap. So I hope OVERTONS can get it
to me by this Friday. I plan on doing the tune-up this weekend.

I made a list of all the tools I'll need (including the beer) from all the
responses, and put it all in a soft sided bag, (A steel tool box might scratch
something.)

I bought some Neverseize. Boy they don't give that stuff away.
Must make threading the plug in with your hand easier also. 

I know a mechanic that stuffs a little Vaseline in the end of the plug wire to
make it easier to remove it the next time. Anyone ever tried it, or some other
way to keep the plug wire from baking on to the plug?

I'll let you know how I made out, and how long it all took.

Thanks again Dave
















 

    
    Instead of vaseline use Silicone Grease. They will bake to the plug
    
    anyway. Unless of course you pull them several times during the
    
    year.
    
    JIm

    Dave, if you have trouble getting the distributor cap, give Pine Motors
    Auto parts in Nashua a call.  My distributor is an obsolete Mallory
    "flat top".  I called at 9:00 in the morning and they had all the
    tune-up parts I needed (points, rotor, cap, condenser) by 11:30.  Of
    course the distributor cap is up to $34 now!!  An $8 jump in 2 years.
    Maybe I should stock up now.
    Wayne

    never-seize isnt cheap, but you barely use any of it to lube the
    threads.  I have a small can and it's lasted me 5 years and is still 
    1/2 full.  All you need is a light, even film on the threads fo it to do
    its job.  It also does make hand-tightening/loosening easier.
    Have fun with the tune-up
    
    Tom

    
    Wayne, it might be a good idea to find a way to get rid of that
    
    cap type or distributor.  On Never Seize, its great stuff, not cheap,
    
    one of its major drawbacks, is:::::::::::  if you get it on your
    
    hands you'll find it all over the place....... its messy.
    
    
    JIm

OK, I'm ready, I have everything I need, including the distributor cap and
spark plug puller. (Almost forgot the Hand cleaner, Thanks Jim).

With all the rags, can of curb cleaner, WD40, Spark plug wrench and
various extensions, wrenchs for removing the gas filter, and parts, the
soft sided bag weighs about 40lbs. (Not counting the beer)!

If its not fun, it sure will be interesting.

Dave

Hope I didn't forget anything?

    
      No no no Jim, you have it ALL wrong, its - If you even TAKE OUT the
    Neverseize, it will get ALL over the place. Places that you KNOW you
    didn't even touch! But it's a gift from the Gods for anything that has
    to be used in a corrosive environment. (Which is almost everything.)
    
    					Kenny

    Dave - Yeah, its not really a good idea to use neverseize on sparkplugs.
    Though it will work perfectly, neverseize is mostly ground up metal (I
    forget which kind) and I don't think its a good idea to get *that* inside
    the cylinder (And I'm sure *some* would get in) I usually use nothing 
    even on the boat plugs, but a bit of ordinary oil will do well.
    
    				Kenny

    re: 11.37
       Jim, I've managed to keep the boat totally original except for the
    starter motor and the reverse gear which both were not rebuildable.  I
    did replace the reverse gear (Eaton) with a Warner Velvet drive made
    in the same year (1965) and it was one of the available options back
    then.  I'll keep my distributor until I can no longer get tune-up parts
    for it and then switch to a different style.  MSD makes a nice looking
    marine set-up that would bolt right in. (Nothing ever "bolts right in"
    but small block Fords haven't changed much 27 years except for the
    bellhousing).
    
    Re: 11.38 
       Dave, bring a feeler gauge to set the spark plug gap.  Even if they
    are set correctly at the factory, you could drop one and get it out of
    spec.  I always check them.  It only takes a minute to make sure they
    are correct.
    Have fun!
    
    Wayne (who tries to start his boat tonight for the first time this
    year)

   
   Thought I would let everyone know how the tune up went. First I'll start
with the tools I forgot.

1/4 " open end wrench
Magnetic screw driver.
Other then those two, I have everthing. 

How long:
The tune up took about 1 1/2 - 2 hours, Over a two day period. 

Problems encountered:

The points had rusted themselves to the shaft on the distributer plate. So I
had to buy a new plate, points and condensor from the marina.
The price of the parts was almost the same as NAPA. I didn't see the rusted
points until after the marina had closed, which is why I couldn't finish the 
tune up in 1 day.

Replacing the plugs, turned out to be alot easier then I thought. I had no
problem inserting the plugs by feel. Setting the points, cleaning the
flame arrester and replacing the distributer cap was easy.

The engine is running great, and saved about 2/3 the cost of having it done.


I asked a mechanic, about putting Never-Sieze of the plugs. His answer was
that plugs that sieze up in a engine, do so from the outside in, so putting 
a small amount on the top of the threads, would be a OK. He's done this in the
past. 

Thanks for all your help
Dave 


Now if I could only add about 3 feet to the boat. :)