Conference 7.286::dcu

    Call 1-800-DCU-TRYS and ask them why it was declined. There must be
    some reason.
    
    -glenn-

re: .1

>    Call 1-800-DCU-TRYS and ask them why it was declined. There must be
>    some reason.
    
There doesn't necessarily have to be a *good* reason. Sometimes it's just
glitches in the approval system.  I've had mine declined, and asked the 
clerk to try again, with the second attempt being approved.

-Hal

    Well, I called DCU to inquire why the card was declined.  There is some
    important information that is on the disclosure statement that I was
    not aware of, and mabe some of you are not as well.
    
    It appears that the DCU transmits available balances to VISA at 5pm
    every night.  So here is a scenario and how it may affect you.
    
    Wednesday you have $50.00 in your sharedraft.  That balance is
    transmitted to VISA and that is the balance information that they use
    on Thursday for purchases.  
    
    So on Thursday, you attempt to make a purchase for $70.00 knowing that
    your payroll has been deposited.  It doesn't matter, because you are
    working on yesterday's balance.  You can have thousands in the account
    and it will still be declined.
    
    So when making VISA purchases, remember what your balance was the day
    before!  Or always have thousands in there!
    
    Jane

>					It doesn't matter, because you are
>    working on yesterday's balance.  You can have thousands in the account
>    and it will still be declined.

My, but that makes it a valuable service, doesn't it?

re: .4


>>					It doesn't matter, because you are
>>    working on yesterday's balance.  You can have thousands in the account
>>    and it will still be declined.
>
>My, but that makes it a valuable service, doesn't it?

It wouldn't be so bad if DCU credited our directly deposited paychecks
*before* sending the balance to VISA.

-Hal

But DCU can't credit it until DIGITAL provides it, and my understanding
is that DIGITAL doesn't provide it until Thursday AM now.

If you meant that they should change the posting to VISA to AM's instead
of PMS's, I agree that that would go a long way to help. Seems as though
it should be simple, but I suppose VISA only accepts posts at the end
of the business day or something foolish like that.

    
    
    re:
    >but I suppose VISA only accepts posts at the end
    >of the business day or something foolish like that.
    
    No VISA will accept a post anytime... I know, we had to use it once...
    We called the DCU, they said, 5PM, we explained the very extenuating
    circumstances, 15 minutes later the $$$'s were there.
    
    I thought we had gone through this before and the DCU was going to
    credit twice a day, once in the Early AM and once as before, at 5PM.
    Mainly for the very reason of how holds are released from accounts
    and how money becomes "available" to you.  I know midnite seems to be
    some magic hour, perhaps the DCU should consider 2 updates 1 at 5PM and
    one at 5AM.
    
    lastly, it's not only paychecks you know... it's any check - depends on
    "when" it clears... midnite is a magic hour...
    
    
    John
    

    This happened to a friend of mine also, same explanation.
    
    Why doesn't DCU provide live balances to VISA during a charge
    authorization?  It's not like DCU's computers are disconnected from the
    network or something...
    
    --Pat

And don't forget, the opposite can happen....

Balances are transmitted to VISA at 5 pm.  Most check clearing happens
overnight, so by morning you probably have LESS money in the account
than VISA thinks.  Next day you use your card and it gets approved. Two
days later you're notified that you are overdrawn.  This has happened to
my wife at least twice. 

I have never used my card and I don't even carry it.  I didn't ask for
it and I don't like the drawbacks. 

//bruce

    Even with only balances being transmitted to VISA at 5pm every day I
    still love my check card and wouldn't want to be without it!
    
    -glenn-

    
    
    re: Overnight check clear...
    
    That's why I think there should be a 5AM (before business day) transmit
    of the information.  That way, both sides are covered...  Oh well...
    
    John
    

    I guess I missed this previously. I thought that the DCU (and
    every other bank) accumulated transactions through the day and
    night, and then "posted" them at a fixed time, generally
    in the late afternoon. Are you saying that the balance changes
    dynamically through the night as the computer works through the
    accounts?
    
    Doug.
    

    Forgive me if I am over-reacting...
    
    Why is it necessary for DCU to 'give' my balance to another
    institution.  When I write a check, it either clears, bounces, or
    causes an overdraft (the last 2 cost me additional funds).  Also, I can
    always put protection on my checking account (over-draft protection,
    link to saving, etc).  I just don't like the idea of another
    institution knowing, on a daily basis, how much money I have in my
    account.  So far as I know, this is un-precidented.  My charge cards
    have no idea how much I have, Tele-check (so far as I know) has no
    idea.  Was I ever asked permission for DCU to hand out this
    information.
    
    I never use my checking card, never plan to use my checking card,
    except for withdrawls... (never even asked for it)
    
    Am I over-reacting?
    
    Mark

>    I never use my checking card, never plan to use my checking card,
>    except for withdrawls... (never even asked for it)
    
    What do you mean "except for withdrawels"? Isn't that using your check
    card?
    
    -glenn-
    

I think he only plans to use check card as an ATM card.

    Well, now that my skin has cooled off a bit (since my card was
    declined), I thought I would post here what DCU told me further.
    
    The woman I spoke with was pretty rude in saying all the things I
    expected her to say about "you should have funds available in your
    account before using your card".  I told her I did, but then she said
    they use the day's prior balance from 5pm.  I asked when and where was
    this told to the members who use the card.  She said, pretty snotty,
    that it is clearly marked int he Electronic Services Disclosure that
    was sent to us.  I told her I would like another.
    
    Well, she sent it to me and highlighted the section that she referred
    to about the day's prior balances.  I will type in exactly the text as
    it appears on page 15 of the disclosure statement.
    
    "I may make merchant cash advances and purchases with my Check Card
    only to the extent that I have available funds in my checking account,
    not to exceed $10,000.00 daily.  For security reasons, you may limit
    the number of transactions authorized.  Also, if circumstances beyond
    your control prevent authorization from being obtained, my daily
    withdrawal limit will be adjusted to $1,500.00."
    
    So, where is the reference to them using the prior day's balance?  This
    really ticks me off even further!

re: .-1

If I were you, I would call the rude, snotty woman back, inform her
that you received the disclosure statement she sent, read to her the
portion which she highlighted, and ask her the question regarding the
previous day's balance.

Do NOT allow her to handwave the matter until she either agrees
to look into it further and get back to you, or states that the
disclosure statement is wrong and should be corrected.

I spoke with Tom Ryan, VP of Operations about this yesterday.  He said given the
way the system works, with the updates going in batch mode, DCU tries very hard
to make it possible for the balances posted to reflect what the member actually
has available.  If you have overdraft protection, they add that credit line in. 
The same is true for backup to Share 1.  Apparently, they also pad some on the
day before payday, since that's when most accounts hit their low point.

Elaine

    Elaine,  I think the key word you used was *tries*.  I don't want my
    financual institution to try, I want it to DO!
    This seems like a known problem to them.  the 'pad' isn't good enough
    unless it's equal to the amount of money accually in my account on 
    Thursday!
    
    I also thought that I was the only person who inspired rude people on
    the other end of the mis-information line.  But I see I am wrong.
    How can you expect to get and keep members if you mistreat them?
    No amount of wasted money on radio advertisemnts will keep a person 
    with rude people on the other end.  sometimes this starts at the top
    and tel workers imatate the habits of their bosses.  think about it.
    
    ed
    

Presumably, there's some cost involved in posting twice a day.  Perhaps they
could solve most of the problem by doing an extra posting once a week, after
Digital posts our pay.

    This whole check card thing looks like an unnecessary mess to me.
    I sent mine back and said I was keeping my ATM card instead and asked
    that it be continued.  They didn't.  When the card expired they didn't
    send me a new one and I was left without money for one whole weekend 
    before I could yell at anyone for it.
    
    This credit union is going to have to be better than this to keep
    me.  I've been PO'd with them too many times just lately.

  I too am unhappy about the fact that we had to accept a check card to have
continued ATM access. I have never used the "check card" function of the DCU
ATM card and don't plan to.
  I don't trust ANY cards to be 100% reliable. Therefore I always carry enough
cash to cover double my expected bill when I go to a restaurant. I have heard
of credit cards not working too. For example, you may be erroneously posted on
their "deadbeat list". I'm willing to take my chances for major expenses, such
as hotel bills and car rentals, but not for meals.

I have an ATM only card (no check card feature) because
like .22, I am very cautious.  

Gim

PS - I requested an ATM only card prior to be elected or
even being a candidate for the BOD.

	I also have just my ATM card.  I called when I got sent the notice
and declined the new card.  So far, so good.

						--Doug

    has anyone else had problems of getting muliple billing when using the
    check card?   First time this happened to us was with a $600.00 dinner
    bill from NY,NY.   I think it was the restaurant that caused this 
    because the second bill was two months later.  DCU got it corrected.
    Last week our statement came in and it had three charges from the
    local Stop and Shop all for the same amount and all the same day.
    They are correcting that and when the wife had the dcu on the phone
    they had just corrected another error that would have showed up
    on our next statement.   Is this a problem with equi*** it is or the
    DCU or the place you use the card at.  The scanner showed her the
    correct price that she had to verify but it still billed 3 times
    

I've never had this happen, and would normally expect that it was a mistake
on the merchant's part. But one never knows.

While I'm in here - if anyone had problems using their DCU check card 
Friday night for POS or Cirrus transactions, this was due to EDS (which
manages the bank-network transactions for many banks) being down.  

			Steve

    I just heard a story from a waiter I know that might shed some light on
    this issue for both credit and debit cards.  It seems that sometimes
    when they "swipe" the card through the machine, it appears not to
    "take" the first time, so the run it through again...and again...and...
    What ends up happening is that although it looks to them like the card
    wasn't accepted the first two or three times, it actually has, and thus
    the repeat charges.
    
    It's not just with DCU cards, but seems to be a systemic problem with
    the machines and the phone lines.
    
    ****andrea****

Don't believe that story ... that only puts reserves on your credit line ...
which last a certain number of days until the transaction is posted.  From
the swipe, they get an authorization number.

The transaction isn't posted to your account until the paperwork is processed
by the company's bank, when they match the signed paperwork with the
authorization number.

From what I understand of the programming, the authorization transaction is
not complete until the terminal acknowledges receipt of the authorization.
So, unless the terminal fails while printing out the paperwork, at the last
moment, failed swipes don't even put a credit reserve on your account.

Stuart

    re: .27
    >It's not just with DCU cards, but seems to be a systemic problem with   
    >the machines and the phone lines.
    
    It seems to me to be a systemic problem with waitpersons! 8-}
    
    P@

RE: .28

>The transaction isn't posted to your account until the paperwork is 
>processed
>by the company's bank, when they match the signed paperwork with the
>authorization number.


Not true.  Most credit card transactions any more NEVER result in 
paper going to the bank.  The terminal captures the transactions and 
receives authorizations, as described.  At the end of the day, the 
batch is closed out electronically over the phone line and the 
postings happen.  The business is required to retain the paperwork 
for some period of time in case of dispute, but it doesn't go to the 
bank.  

In fact, the banks don't want the paperwork.  They give merchants who 
agree to electronic capture a lower discount rate than those who 
insist on submitting paper.

-r

The waiter's analysis is wrong.  My wife deals with those infernal
machines every day.  The machine tells you if it successfully read
the mag-stripe or not.  Then the sales clerk has to enter the 
transaction amount.  Then the machine will dial the host system,
transmit the data, receives an authorization code, displays it, and
gets a confirmation from the clerk.

If anything goes wrong with this sequence, then the machine tells 
the clerk about it.

    FYI, I was double charged once -- by Baybank, not DCU.  It was a
    paper transaction.  What happened was that the vendor thought that
    the impression of my card was too light, and so filled out a second 
    form, copied all of my data onto it, wrote something into the signature 
    line, and sent in both forms.  Baybank processed both charges.  My
    conclusion from that experience is that a vendor can send in pretty
    much any charge they want, and it will appear on my bill.  The
    only things I know to do about it are to refuse to deal with vendors
    who make this kind of mistake (unless they apologize and convince me 
    they won't do it again) and to cut up the card if the bank/whatever
    doesn't respond effectively to a complaint of incorrect billing.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry