Conference 7.286::dcu

    While I like dealing with tellers I also like doing routine
    transactions via machine. Maybe that's why I'm in computers.
    Assuming a free ATM machine it's faster, easier and more convenient
    to make common withdrawals via ATM. I'm less comfortable making
    deposits via ATM but could probably adapt.

    Frankly, I think that the sales and service model would probably
    lead to a lot more business for DCU and a lot better service to
    members. It would provide the opportunity for members to learn about
    more services and for the branch employees to assist the members
    better by being able to ask questions about their needs. Right now
    one has to be buzzed in past the teller windows and visit the manager
    in a back office. This is less comfortable and perhaps even threatening
    for some people. An open office approach may be more conducive to
    employees coming in and talking rather then just assuming, because 
    it's easy, that DCU can't meet their needs.

    			Alfred

	I use the ATM for my "weekly cash."  Anything else goes to the
teller.  I will not deposit in an ATM machine. (Having once had a $1500
deposit go missing when deposited at a teller [not DCU], I know the value
of a receipt backed up by a human.)  Some stuff (rolled coins) simply
cannot be deposited in an ATM and I wouldn't ever put cash in on a bet.

	If I go to the branch to transact my business, I don't believe that
they should tell me that even though I just deposited a bunch of checks and
coin that I have to go use the ATM to take the $50 I need to tide me over
for the rest of the week.

	To me, service means "Do what I'm here to have you do and don't
give me a hard time about it." and not "Restrict what things I can do so
someone can sit idle waiting for a loan applicant."

	That's a surer way to send me looking for another place to put my
money that the current "stick painted to look like a carrot."

						--Doug

    
    Well, there's probably some merit in redesigning some of the branches
    to make it more inviting for members to drop in and discuss services,
    but reducing teller windows doesn't make any sense.
    
    I try to use the ZKO ATM for my withdrawals. It's often quicker than
    waiting for a teller. But many times I find the ATM "out of service" --
    often at the busiest part of the day.
    
    Once again, it would seem that DCU has it backwards. Its far friendlier
    to encourage people to use preferred services by making them more
    inviting, than by making the other services more prohibitive.
    
    I smell another "carrot" for their tiered ownership philosophy: "no
    fees on cash withdrawals under $75 if you're a Relationship Member!"
    

    I'm strongly opposed to removing one of the few benefits of the
    DCU that I often take advantage of:  withdrawing small amounts of
    cash.
    
    First off, I don't take the money from my checking account (or even
    my regular savings account), so using an ATM doesn't help (even if
    I had a card, which I don't).
    
    Secondly, from the poll taken recently on why members use DCU,
    convenience was the overwhelming response.  A proposal to make things
    less convenient is likely to have the result of people moving out
    of DCU.  It appears that some view this as a positive (after all,
    we're abusers).
    
    Finally, the goal as stated does not deal with better servicing of
    membership (as I read it): it's reason to be is to increase
    profitability no matter what the cost.  This focus is all wrong,
    in my opinion.
    
    DCU can be profitable AND service customers at the same time.  Then
    they can make the customers even happier by returning some of the
    profits to us (the owners as well).  Will they choose this "reckless"
    course of action?  We'll see in a month.
    
    Collis

DCU already provides a service I need by limiting my access to my cash
to those hours when I can visit a branch. I never have, and don't intend
to, use an ATM. The last thing I need is the ability to get cash whenever
I'm near a machine.

-Jack

    Withdrawls of ANY small amount are ALWAYS allowed at the banks I use.
    
    To do less would be non-competitive.
    
    Also, the membership in MD/VA/DC have no alternative without having to
    shell out cash to use someone else's ATM machine (there is no DCU 
    ATM here; the DCU says local Digital management won't pay for it).
    
    Frankly, the local branch gets so little traffic since DCO became a
    training facility (for the most part), I'm surprised that it's still
    here.  If the tellers there don't have time to deal with small
    transactions, then something is wrong.
    
    I also don't see why the DCO branch would need much of a redesign. 
    There are no threatening buzzers, etc.  There is an open office to
    discuss products, etc.  The branch mgr simply opens the door to her
    office to let you in.
    
    I don't see people clamoring for more opportunities to be sold
    products.  I do see people who want to use a convenient Credit Union
    for everything from lunch money to mortgages.  Also, since the bulk of
    the MD Digital population is now 5 miles from the DCU branch at DCO, a
    reduction of services will undoubtedly make the banks which exist in those
    5 miles look all the more attractive (especially since they have
    branches all over the state, night & weekend hours, etc.).
    
    I still don't see how alienating people who don't have big money is
    beneficial to the DCU.  These are PRECISELY the people we should sell
    loans to, but instead the DCU labels them "abusers" and now might push
    them out entirely because their small transactions don't match DCU's
    big ego.
    
    -- Russ

    I'd like to be able to go to a local branch instead of trekking to DCU
    HQ for some of the services.  If this plan will help that, I'm all for
    it.  I do most of my cash withdrawls at the ATM anyway.  If this is
    implemented, I would hope they'd add ATM's to handle the extra traffic.

    
    Almost all branches have an ATM near them.  Those that don't would have
    one added.
    

    
    
    
    	This proposal would be fine by me under two conditions:
    
    	1) every DCU branch have a DCU ATM located at the same site. (Note
    it must be a DCU machine, not a 3rd party network machine)
    
    	2) If the local DCU machine is not operating, then "small amount"
    withdrawals MUST be allowed at the DCU branch while the ATM is
    off-line.
    
    Jim Halpin
    

    
    IMO, reducing teller service at ZKO would require an additional ATM.
    The current one already seems to serve as an overflow device during
    peak teller usage, and would probably be swamped fif teller service
    is reduced.
    

�    Almost all branches have an ATM near them.  Those that don't would have
�    one added.
    
    But is 1 ATM/branch enough given this plan?  Looking at how the lines
    can get at the HLO branch at times with 3 tellers open, I don't think
    so.

    
    RE: .11
    
    I would tend to doubt it.  We have been shown data that indicates our
    current ATMs are severely under utilized.  If they start to show over
    utilization then it would have to be considered.
    

    It's fine by me.  Just give me an easy way of getting 50 bucks. 
    That's my most frequent transaction.  I'll gladly give up the task of
    filling out the slip...
    
    Mark

�    I would tend to doubt it.  We have been shown data that indicates our
�    current ATMs are severely under utilized.  If they start to show over
�    utilization then it would have to be considered.
    
    Maybe that's because people are using the tellers now.  I would hope
    implementation wouldn't be so short sighted.

    
    RE: .13
    
    Mark, you can get $50 from the ATMs now.  Do you normally use the ATM
    or the branch to get your cash?
    
    
    RE: .14
    
    Implementation is DCU management's task.  They have all the transaction
    numbers windows, branches, ATMs, etc.  It will be their call on whether
    one or two ATMs would be needed.  But I don't recall a lot of
    discussion about needing 2 ATMs anyplace.
    
    The change machines supposedly will make the teller windows more
    efficient but again, at $30,000 a pop, having these at every branch and
    window was not a definite.
    

    
    
      >  Do you normally use the atm or the branch to get your cash?
    
    I turned in my ATM card (and checking account)  back the last time
    fee's were going to be implemented,  and ATM cards were going
    to cost $1/month.
    
    If 'Free'  ATM cards are ensured for the forseeable future,  and 
    an ATM were to appear at TAY,  I'd happilly apply for a new
    card and use it.
    
    
    						-al
    

    
    
    Gawd, this would be a short sighted policy...  I use the ATM most of
    the time, so not having a teller isn't a big deal to me, except when
    the ATM line is long, the ATM pen is out of ink (for deposits), the
    ATM is "temporarily out of order"... I'd say all would become worse
    with the policy in place...   I think for ZK in particular, having
    an ATM in the cafe would be a good idea... right now as long as you've
    walked over from ZK3 or ZK1, then you pick the shorter of the two lines
    for your transaction...  I would have to say it's pretty obvious to me
    that if you reduce/restrict usage of the tellers with the expected
    result being a hopeful increase in use of ATM, that it's going to 
    happen, then if that happens the scenario would be overused ATM's and
    underutilized tellers (oh.. is this reverse gainsharing?)...  of course
    the person's whose job it is to fill and maintain the ATM now is quite
    a bit busier... money will run out quicker and deposits will pile up
    faster, right?
    
    Hey what happens if you have an IRS refund check less than $50???  Does
    that mean DCU won't cash it now?  "It's against policy to cash anything
    less than $50, next please..."
    
    
    In any case as for the "quick" $50, I'd like to see the addition of the
    software for a user to "preselect" the amount of quick cash they
    usually get... I know this is available since many ATM's I've used have
    a specific button setup for it... As well as the quick 10, 30, 50, 100
    buttons (got to be careful though, I pressed a quick 50 once when I 
    thought it was the "how much to withdraw button")...
    
    
    John
    

�    Hey what happens if you have an IRS refund check less than $50???  Does
�    that mean DCU won't cash it now?  "It's against policy to cash anything
�    less than $50, next please..."
    
    I didn't read anything about check cashing in what Phil posted.  I
    think it was about straight withdrawls.

        Well, they finally have come up with a "service" that could cause me to
    remove ALL of my business (including my sold mortgage, if appropriate
    interest rates can be found elsewhere).

    By accident, I have a mortgage and should therefore be in relationship
    (baring rules change) until either the end of the year or when the
    mortgage drops below $3500 (in 14 years ?), so the fees don't effect me
    and I stay and fight.

    I'd like better access to product information, and somewhere to sit
    down, and ZKO is not a glowing example, but:

    1) I often have coins to convert/deposit (coffee klubing)

    2) I also will NOT deposit via ATM, I had one deposit mis-routed (not
       DCU) to another account, causing a full year tuition check to
       bounce.  Luckily the ATM wasn't out of Ink.

    3) I use the ATM for minor withdrawals and balance checks.   It would
       be nice to get an "n" check cleared, or a particular check cleared
       instead of paying for a mini statement when I am farther out then
       the "free" transactions.

    4) I have encountered the ATM having only one or two rows of dots
       working, or being almost out of ink (I think out of ink is almost
       better).

    5) I have had a perfectly good card eaten by the machine.  I have had
       a machine refuse to accept the correct password.


    NO! NO! NO! the tellers shouldn't go.
    

    99% of the time I use the ATM.
    99% of the time I withdraw more than $75.
    
    Having an area to sell services in a branch seems like
    a fine idea.
    
    If I EVER go into a branch and am refused my request of 
    withdrawing $5 at a teller window, I will withdraw 
    EVERY PENNY that I have on deposit (I am a "relationship"
    member and that would be the end of the "relationship")
    
    Janice
    

�    NO! NO! NO! the tellers shouldn't go.
    
    Nobody said they should.  Unless I missed something in Phil's post, the
    only thing that will happen is that anyone making a withdrawl below a
    certain amount must use an ATM.  I didn't see anything that would
    effect deposits, check cashing, etc.

    Maybe things are different out here in CXO than the East, but I find
    the thought of a teller pointing their finger towards an ATM machine
    when I decide I need an extra $20 for the weekend, a bit revolting.
    
    "It's okay to take our time for the big bucks, but don't bother us with
    your piddly transactions".....  To me that's not a "service" oriented
    business.  I should get a smile and a hello for $10 or $100. (But then
    I don't really trust ATM's and only use them in an emergency.)

>    Part of the planned switch to a sales and service environment is the
>    re-design and re-modeling of every DCU branch.  The number of teller
>    windows will be reduced ...
    
    Does this mean we have the same number of tellers in fewer windows ?
    
    Visit a Canadian or UK or European Bank ... it is a Functional place
    sometimes more stark than a DCU branch.  You need to see the manager
    or a loans officer ... then you visit their office or cube ... nice and
    private.
    
    I visited a local bank the other day 4 desks ... all in the open in a
    huge open space ... plush carpeting etc.  This bank couldn't do what
    I wanted anyway (a big enough loan without 10 arms and legs as
    collateral) although others can.  But all this plushness did nothing
    for their busyness ... the place was deserted ... And moreover their
    interest rates and conservative lending practices ensure that they
    will enjoy the plush surroundings in peace.  Somebody paid for all
    that plushness ... no doubt their clientelle.
    
    And DCU wants to emulate a bank again ... I want functional efficiency,
    and making it harder to do business with tellers wont achieve that.
    
    Moreover, what will it cost to revamp the DCU branches ???  More places
    to spend our fees on.
    
    Selling products is done by modest advertising and the right rates ...
    not plush surroundings ... Someone high up in DCU is in the wrong
    business ... should be in Banking (in a real bank)!
    
    Stuart

    One thing that I think is important is that I do not have enough
    detail to approve/disapprove of any specific implementation.
    Conceptually I like the idea of doing routine transactions with
    a machine, except for deposits. Conceptually I like the idea of
    DCU employees sitting down with me, hearing and understanding 
    what my needs are, and helping me sign up for services that I
    want and/or need. This is good to me as a concept. Implementation
    can either make that concept good or bad. The level of information
    needed to no/no go an implementation I expect management to give
    the Board and the Board to decide. Micro management by the whole
    membership is not possible. Though of course members should vote
    for Board members who properly represent them.


    		Alfred

    
    I usually withdraw via the ATM at ZKO.  I will NOT under any
    circumstances use an ATM for a deposit.  If the ATM is down
    or there are several people waiting to use it, there should
    be no hassle making a small withdrawal at the teller window.
    Any other policy would not be "service" in my mind.
    
    Steve
    

    Well, when I can stop by the ATM and get $20 as a ten, a five and five
    ones, then I'll be happy. I do most of my small (less than $50) at the
    ATM but sometimes I need a roll of quarters or a twenty in change
    (makes going out to lunch with a group MUCH easier). I will never
    deposit at an ATM.
    
    My 2 cents worth.

I'd be *really* annoyed, though, if I had a bunch of transactions to do
at least one of which could only be done through a teller, and the teller
pointed me to the ATM machine for some of my transactions.

It's not clear from .0 that it would happen this way, but if it did, I'd
be annoyed...

I'm not sure how I feel about the branch being a place to discuss services.
It seems like the ZKO branch would need more space -- I wouldn't feel
comfortable if anybody visiting the branch could overhear discussions of
personal finances.  Is DCU considering adding new services that would require
more explanations?  I can't really imagine *needing* to discuss things
very often -- maybe once every few years?

    my reply is quite a few back, but I'll answer the question in .15
    
    >Do you normally use the ATM or the branch to get your cash?
    
    I gave up my ATM card when I closed my sharedraft account.  Back then you
    had to convert to the new checking account to keep your card.  I never
    bothered to apply for a new card when the rules changed because it's so
    much easier to walk to the branch in MRO4 (maybe 50 feet) than to use
    the drive-up machine outside of MRO1.
    
    Mark

    .... "Horse Puckey!"
    
    Dave

    The carrot is definitely preferable to the stick.  If you give me an
    ATM with a shorter wait than the tellers, in a convenient location,
    then I will use it for withdrawals.  Like most others, I WILL NOT use
    an ATM for deposits.

    As mentioned a few ago, in MR the ATM is a driveup outside.  I use it
    when I need money on my way home.  I certainly would not be happy if I
    needed money for lunch here in MRO4 and was told to drive over to the
    ATM.

	Paul

    Another suggestion should this be implemented -- drop the monthly ATM
    fee for non-relationship members.

    Re .31:
    
    >Another suggestion should this be implemented -- drop the monthly ATM
    >fee for non-relationship members.
    
    
    	What "Monthly" ATM fee??? There is none. The only fee I am charged
    for my ATM card is the $1 for conducting a transaction on a 3rd-party
    network machine.
    
    JimH
    

    I might be mistaken, Jim, but I thought there were some instances
    accounts would be charged a monthly fee for having an ATM card. 

    
    Nope, no monthly fee. At least, not according to the "Schedule of Fees
    and Service Charges", distributed late in '93.
    

    
      No - the monthly fee was proposed and dropped with the 
    first set of fees.  
    
    

    Thanks for the correction.