Conference 7.286::dcu

    Re:

>I want improved decision making from the next BoD.

    This is one of the main reasons I put myself up for election. From
    reading the minutes of the BoD meetings I see very little data driven
    decision making. Worse I see that when data is asked for it is never
    forthcoming. The fee issue is an excellent example. The data shows the
    following:

    	1, The new fees will bring in little additional income.
    	2, No position is presented on how fees with improve the health of
    	   the credit union.

    For those of us against fees there is solid data that fees drive away
    members. Witness the mass exodus in September hen DCU closed a lot of
    accounts by feeing them. There is no data on how members will be helped
    by fees.

Re:

>The problem
>that I feel is somewhat overlooked is that the board members who voted 
>"yes" to fees seem to have done so without any regard for whether they were 
>needed (facts), nor did they  articulate a vision for the credit union that 
>would argue in favor of the imposition of the fees even if not necessary for 
>financial soundness (or maximum profitability, or...).  To me, this is a far 
>more serious problem then whether we have fees or not.  How can we judge these 
>directors performance?

    I agree. It appears to me that the current BoD has been little more
    than a rubber stamp for management recommendations. When the fee
    proposal was made to the board there seemed to be a higher interest
    level in keeping it a secret from the membership than actually standing
    up and defending it. To this day I cannot understand the rationale
    behind feeing people to be members.

>When I asked whether a decision to rescind fees would be a purely
>philosophical one for our candidates, or one that would look at the
>data, I was trying to get an understanding of how the candidates
>would make decisions.  Perhaps it was the wrong example to use, given
>the history of the fees issue at DCU.  

    I believe that BoD decision making should be based around an overall
    vision and strategy for the long term future of the credit union. In my
    case I have made it clear that for me the credit union should regain
    the credit union values that it was formed under. In summary that is a
    cooperative where one set of members (the savers) are helping out and
    are helped by the other set of members (the borrowers). As times change
    I fully expect members to move between these two sets. Members should
    be able to get a better basic service from the DCU than they could from
    any bank. This should not be difficult because:

    	a) The DCU pays no taxes.
    	b) The DCU is indirectly subsidized by Digital.

    I believe the DCU should tailor its services to the composition of its
    membership base. That means taking into account remote members as well
    as GMA members. The DCU should be a place where people WANT to bring
    their business.

    Given an agreed strategic direction for the DCU I would examine all
    management proposals in the context of that direction. If I felt the
    proposal fit in with that direction I would back it other wise I'd vote
    against it. I would expect proposals to be backed up by solid facts.
    In my view the "Relationship Banking/Fee" proposal had little solid
    data behind it.

Re:

>Still, since the imposition of fees was so grossly mishandled by
>DCU, I'd like to hear folks opinions on handling rescinding fees.
>Clearly you have a disconnect between the prospective board and Cockburn
>on the fees issue.  How will you handle that?

    One of my first actions as a director would be proposing a motion that
    management be instructed to bring to the table a proposal for
    eliminating fees on basic services. Any fees that remain would have to
    be justified as strictly a fee that covered a variable cost.

    Just as Mr. Cockburn has faithfully led the credit union in a strategic
    direction that has been set by the current board (towards a fee based
    bank) I would expect that he would be equally as enthusiastic in
    working in a different direction should that be the wish of the board.

    On the other hand if Mr. Cockburn himself truly believes in DCU being a
    fee based bank I would be more than happy to listen to the arguments
    put forth for this direction. I'm flexible, maybe my mind can be
    changed. But I tell you I have seen ZERO evidence so far that relationship
    banking and fees is the way to go for the long term health of the
    credit union.

Re:

>How will you integrate the
>rescinding of fees into an overall direction for the credit union, one
>that the board can articulate, Cockburn can implement, and all of you me
>measured on by the membership?

    BoD members are judged by the membership at every election. I'd expect
    the membership to judge me by whether I was faithful to the promises I
    made in my campaign statement.

    I am astounded that Lisa DeMauro Ross could campaign on a platform of
    "holding the line on fees" and then vote for fees. I pledge to the
    membership that I will remain true to my campaign promises.

    As far as Mr. Cockburn implementing a new direction for the CU I'd see
    that being monitored on an ongoing basis. This could be seen through
    BoD meeting minutes where I'd like to see open and honest communication
    with the membership. It is the BoD's job to monitor president's
    performance against the long term strategic direction set by the BoD.

    Talking of "open and honest communication" what I will not do is campaign
    on an "open communication" platform and then censor the most important board
    decision for a duration of 6 months. Both Lisa DeMauro Ross and Paul
    Milbury to one extent or another promised open communication. They both
    voted to censor the April 1993 minutes that contained the "fee" vote for
    6 months. I pledge I'd never do anything like that. 

    I'd be happy to talk about my philosophy for the DCU and how I think I
    can make it a better place with anybody who'd like to contact me.
    
    Dave

�    For those of us against fees there is solid data that fees drive away
�    members. 
    
    What we have is data that says that a large number of accounts were
    closed at a particular point in time and a hypothesis that says this
    was due to the announcement of the fees.

>    I believe the DCU should tailor its services to the composition of its
>    membership base. That means taking into account remote members as well
>    as GMA members. The DCU should be a place where people WANT to bring
>    their business.

    How will you do this? Do you support the idea of X number of free
    foreign ATM transactions a month for remote members? How about postage
    paid envelopes for mailing in deposits?

    Paul

    
    
    
    
    Re:
    
>    How will you do this? Do you support the idea of X number of free
>    foreign ATM transactions a month for remote members? How about postage
>    paid envelopes for mailing in deposits?
    
    I don't think it would be proper for me to endorse any particular
    implementation method for making the DCU easier to access by remote
    members. That is really an operational management decision and exactly
    how to improve access for remote members should be decided by
    management based upon data that only they have.
    
    But as a strategic direction/philosophy I would expect management to
    recognize that the fixed cost of branches can only really be made use
    of by members that are close to branches. I would expect that this
    would be used to justify another sort of cost (maybe postage paid
    envelopes, maybe ATM access) for remote members. The important point is
    that I strongly believe that the DCU should be a resource for all US
    based employees, not just those in the GMA area. I am a strong
    proponent of having the DCU investigate pioneering some electronic
    banking techniques. I believe there must be some way that Digital and
    DCU could work together to utilize the EASYNET. Obviously there are a
    lot of security issues to be worked out but I don't think they need to
    be insoluable.
    
    In summary I'd like the DCU to look into new innovative services that
    the membership could make could use of. Recognize that Digital
    employees are distributed across the company. What I strongly object to
    is the currebt policy of just trying to be a Bank clone for GMA
    employees.
    
    So while I can't say I would definitely back the particular suggestions
    you make I will say that I would make sure they are thoroughly
    evaluated by DCU management. If rejected I'd expect to see solid
    reasons as to why.
    
    Dave

    .2:  The many people who specifically stated publicly that they closed
    their accounts because of the fee system are data.  If this data is
    considered to be too anecdotal, well, the DCU management knows how to
    get better data.  The Board cannot make data-driven decisions unless
    they are presented with sound data.  It's the job of the Board to 
    demand this data, so it's our job to vote out anyone who doesn't.
    
    Regarding the huge number of people who closed their accounts the month 
    that fees were introduced, only one even half-way plausible expalantion 
    of why it happened has ever been presented.  If the DCU management
    doubts why they left, they can easily verify it with a random sampling
    of phone calls to the people who left.  And if they have any doubts
    about the reasons behind what is possibly the biggest one month drop in
    membership in the history of the credit union, they they would be very
    foolish not to investigate it.  Why isn't the Board taking the lead to
    demand that data?  Will you vote for directors who have committed
    themselves to getting data from management?
    
    		Larry

    Well, for one thing, it appears that "reason for closing" data is not
    being collected whne people ask to close their accounts!  In fact, the
    DCU staff is not trying to convince people to keep accounts.
    
    I wonder what happens to the letters that explain why people are
    closing accounts ?  Fiched with account records and filed for
    posterity? Or are they actually read and noted in some book ?
    
    Stuart
    
    

    As I recall, one of the goals of the fee program was so that accounts
    would be closed.  I doubt that advocates of the fee structure are going
    to see account closings as a bad thing since that was part of the
    intent.  Closing certain accounts because of fees was, as near as I can
    tell, one of the desired effects.  The issue may not be that accounts 
    are being closed, but rather which accounts are being closed and what
    future business opportunities, if any, are being lost for DCU.
    
    Steve

    Regarding the large drop in members. How many of those members quit and
    how many were the result of "house cleaning?" In other words did the
    DCU take a month to drop all those accounts that had dropped below the
    $5 required for membership? Or contact a lot of people who had low
    low deposits and no activity for some period of time? Is that
    information in here or will it be in the minutes? How many people 
    really left in that month and how many were really leaving over the
    last year or so and just dropped from the roles that month?

    			Alfred

    There is couple more parts to the the large membership question.

    1.  Does this number represent the number of members who closed their
    entire membership with DCU?

    2.  If it is then we must also ask how many closed individual accounts
    and moved those fund elsewhere while still maintaining some presence in
    DCU?

    bob

              <<< Note 747.10 by CSC32::LONGRN::SHAW "Bob Shaw" >>>

>    2.  If it is then we must also ask how many closed individual accounts
>    and moved those fund elsewhere while still maintaining some presence in
>    DCU?

	I would assume that I am still counted among the membership,
	even though my total investment in the DCU is $5.

Jim

�                       -< We need data-driven Directors >-
    
    Finally someone who understands what I've been trying to say.
    
�The Board cannot make data-driven decisions unless
�    they are presented with sound data.  It's the job of the Board to 
�    demand this data, so it's our job to vote out anyone who doesn't.
    
    I think they should go a step beyond that.  They shouldn't simply ask
    management for data to support management's recommendations, but if
    they disagree with management's recommendation they should have access
    to information which shows why the recommendation is not sound.
    
�    Regarding the huge number of people who closed their accounts the month 
�    that fees were introduced, only one even half-way plausible expalantion 
�    of why it happened has ever been presented.  
    
    Are dividends posted in September?  DCU's policy is to only credit
    dividends quarterly.  If you withdraw during a quarter you lose all
    dividends accumulated to date in that quarter.

    Here is a hypothetical situation for the no-fees candidates:
    
    You are elected to the DCU BoD but still find yourself in the minority
    who believe there should be no fees.  What are you going to do to
    convince the others that fees are not neccessary and may indeed be
    detrimental to the long term health of the DCU?

  I suppose that could happen since all the members who object to fees should
be gone by the end of the elections.

>�                       -< We need data-driven Directors >-
>    
>    Finally someone who understands what I've been trying to say.
    
    I think that most of us know what you have been saying all along. Your
    game wasn't hard to see through a couple of years ago and it's not now.
    
    -Glenn-
    

RE: Note 747.12 by 38346::MACNEAL

>    I think they should go a step beyond that.  They shouldn't simply ask
>    management for data to support management's recommendations, but if
>    they disagree with management's recommendation they should have access
>    to information which shows why the recommendation is not sound.

Phil is ONE of the few 'data driver' directors.  Phil has shown that he
can dig around and find answers.  I know Phil has tried to get
information, but the majority of directors are not interested in
examining the data.  Too bad.

Based upon what you have siad, I am suprised you are not voting for
Phil...

	- mark

�Based upon what you have siad, I am suprised you are not voting for
�Phil...
    
    I don't recall posting anything which stated who I am voting for.

    
    Let me get this straight...
    
    Recommendations are brought to the Board along with supporting facts
    and figures.  We should also expect that the people bringing the
    recommendation to the Board also provide facts and figures that show
    that that recommendation is NOT a good one?
    
    Sorry, but I'm sure I'm missing your point so could you please repost it?
    If the above is a correct interpretation of what you are saying then
    you need to attend a few of our Board meetings.
    

�We should also expect that the people bringing the
�    recommendation to the Board also provide facts and figures that show
�    that that recommendation is NOT a good one?
    
    Of course not.  Those against the recommendation should be able to show
    why it is not a good one or at least get it tabled until more research
    can be done.

�We should also expect that the people bringing the
�    recommendation to the Board also provide facts and figures that show
�    that that recommendation is NOT a good one?
>>>    
>>>    Of course not.  Those against the recommendation should be able to show
>>>    why it is not a good one or at least get it tabled until more research
>>>    can be done.
    
    Now I really don't understand.  Aren't you the one saying everything
    must be data-driven?  How is anybody to "show" anything without the
    data that would contradict the recommendation?  How is one to get
    anything "tabled" when the people making the recommendation say, "We
    have already done the research and the data clearly supports our
    recommendation."?
    
    What kind of Boards have you served on?  I ask because your statements 
    make me wonder if they are similar to DCU.  Your expectations certainly
    don't match current reality.
    

�    Now I really don't understand.  Aren't you the one saying everything
�    must be data-driven?  How is anybody to "show" anything without the
�    data that would contradict the recommendation?  How is one to get
�    anything "tabled" when the people making the recommendation say, "We
�    have already done the research and the data clearly supports our
�    recommendation."?
    
    I didn't say it was easy.
    
    If you can't get it voted down or tabled and you think it is worthwhile
    to pursue, then gather up as much information as you can (even under
    the old Information Protection Policy it was possible to get info if it
    was "business related") and use it to support a new recommendation.

    
    This is all very good theory, Keith and I wish it worked this way.  But
    the fact of the matter is it doesn't.  And then of course there is the
    "they are the professionals" attitude that must be overcome.  Since
    I cannot call in my own consultants whenever I would like my position
    backed up, what does that leave me with?
    
    I have even questioned and debated consultants on opinions given and
    alternative approaches.  They have agreed with me, but even then it 
    hasn't mattered.  The bottom line is when a "recommendation" is given,
    there is a 99.99% chance of it being accepted.  Like I said, you need
    to sit in on a few of our Board meetings.
    

    re: .22
    
    Is it possible for member owners to sit in on BOD meetings? If so, I'd
    like to sign up. It sounds like it would be VERY interesting!
    
    Pat

    
    RE: .23
    
    I'd certainly be in favor of it as long as it was General Session and
    you're a DCU member.  Others on the Board would have to agree to it
    though.
    
    But on a similar note, I asked that we schedule some of our Board
    meetings OUT of Maynard.  Right now we are scheduled to meet in
    Merrimack NH on June 28, 1994 and Marlboro on November 22, 1994.  The
    Board meeting would not be open to the membership but at 5pm a meeting
    with members would begin.