Conference 7.286::dcu

    Chris,
    
    May I suggest the following...
    
    
    Out of respect to and for the BoD, would you consider releaseing the
    results of your poll to te BoD, prior to making the results known to
    the membership.  While the idea of secracy bothers me, I propose the
    following:
    
    release the results 24 hours prior to the next BoD meeting, and
    release the results to Lisa only.  As part of your report, ask that the
    Board officially draft and present some sort of reply, regarding the
    results of the poll, and their possition on fees.  Allow the BoD 2-3 days 
    after the BoD meeting, and if necessary, release the results yourself.
    
    We elected the BoD to do a job.  Assuming they made an un-informed
    decission, I believe we need to allow them to make corrections.
    
    However, I see no problm with keping us informed as to the number of
    surveys recieved...
    
    Mark
    

    RE: -1
    
    	I have as much resepct for most of the Bod as they had for most of 
    us.  I have no control over what Chris does with his poll but I'm strongly
    opposed to giving it to the BoD before everybody else.  

    Joe

    
>Permission to forward this to any and all members of DCU is provided.
>Remember that to be in conformance with Digital's Policies and
>Procedures, you must retain the list of forwards on the mail.

    Actually, one only had to retain the originators name in the
    forwarding. Intermediate forwarding addresses may be deleted. 

    		Alfred

RE: Note 710.1 by PRMS07::ZIMMERMANN

>    Out of respect to and for the BoD, would you consider releaseing the
>    results of your poll to te BoD, prior to making the results known to
>    the membership.  While the idea of secracy bothers me, I propose the
>    following:

I STRONGLY disagree with this.  They have shown a lack of disregard to the
owners, so deserve no considertion.

This poll is to find out if enough members agree with FORCING DCU to act
how the owners want.  If not enough people are interested, then fine.  I am
sure we will find that we will have MORE than enough votes... :-)

	- mark    

    While I oppose the BoD being the puppets of DCU mgmt, I also oppose the
    BoD being the puppet of a vocal group of members.  While I strongly
    oppose the fees, and will vote for a special meeting, I do feel that we
    need to allow our elected REPRESENATATIVES to make mistakes, and correct 
    them.  If we 'force' the BoD to carry out our wishes, then we might as
    well have a BoD of 50,000 members (i.e. the entire membership, whatever
    the number is).
    
    Also, I'd like NOT to see the board resign over this. However, given a 
    choice between fees, and a new board, well, I don't want members to pay 
    fees.
    
    Mark

As of 16:00 24-Sept-1993, I have 50 (not counting my own entry) mail
messages answering the Straw Poll.

Keep those cards and letters coming...

./chris

As of 28-September at 8:45, I have 85 poll replies.  The poll is open
to anybody who has not yet replied and who is a DCU member until
17:30 on 30-September.  That way, the poll will have been up for a 
full business week, and one full weekend.

I will attempt to get the results tallied up (automated processing
is difficult because many respondents added comments and the like -
nevertheless I have various csh scripts to help me out :-)) over the
weekend.  

The goal is to post these results on Monday, October 4th.   I will be
posting the results here, emailing copies to those of you wo answered
"yes" to the last question, emailing copies to the members of the 
Board of Directors, and paper mailing a copy to Chuck Cockburn.

Keep those answers coming!

Thanks for showing your concern...
./chris


P.S.  Several folks have written and said, in effect, "nice poll,
I was gonna answer but you didn't ask (this question) or (that question)."
Please answer the existing poll anyway - I can't possibly cover all
the bases at once.  Some of the suggested questions are great, and if I
do a further future straw poll they'll be asked.  For now, though, your
input and comments on the existing poll are extremely important - please
reply if you haven't already done so.  Thanks!

    
    Chris,
    
    Perhaps you should make sure that Julie Moran gets a copy of your
    findings...
    

    I am having both family members (non Digital people) who also have
    accounts with DCU to fill out a poll form.  Is this OK?  Also,
    I have just received my "Dear valued member" mailing.  I don't
    see that they have justified the necessity of reintroducing fees.  
    
    I am not in favor of fees although only one family member will be
    inpacted by it.  I only joined the DCU because back when it started
    they were the nearest institution that Digital would do direct deposits
    to.  If they start introducing fees then I will move my money to
    another credit union.  If the management keeps ignoring the membership 
    view than I will probably do that anyway, I have two CU's within 5 
    minutes of my house that would be much more convenient than LKG.  (And
    although the DCU will hardly go broke if I do, this would remove several 
    thousand dollars from the DCU and an IRA account.)
    
    The thing that did suggest its self to me was that there might be some
    kind of ego/power struggle between the membership and the management of
    DCU--a need for the DCU management to assert who really runs the Credit
    Union, them or the membership.  Just MHO.  

Thank you for participating in the poll.  The poll is officially
closed now (as of 17:30 last night), and the results are being
tallied now.

I received 158 entries total.   I will try to get the results
together over the weekend and post the results on Monday.

Thanks again for your taking the time to express your opinion...

./chris

	[This note may be forwarded to any DCU members, provided
         the forwarder complies with Digital corporate policies
         regarding the forwarding of conference notes and email.]

Dear DCU Members:

Thanks to those of you who participated in my electronic straw poll
regarding the new Relationship Banking program at DCU.  The poll was
conducted by placing a note in the DCU Notes Conference, and
soliciting replies via email.  The poll was open to all members of
DCU, not just to notes conference participants, and was kept open for
one full week.

For those of you who do not follow DCU notes, or have not followed
this particular string, I took a wholly unofficial straw poll to
attempt to gauge member reaction to relationship banking.  This poll
is not an official DCU or Digital communication, and any
representation to the contrary would be inappropriate.

I received 156 responses to the poll.  The poll, along with the
answers broken out by responses and percentages, are presented below. 

Again, thanks to those of you who participated in the poll.
Copies of this message are being sent via email to the members of the
DCU Board of Directors for their consideration.

Regards,
Christopher C. Fillmore-Gillett
Concerned DCU Member


		*** STRAW POLL & RESULTS ***

(1)  What is your opinion regarding Relationship Banking as defined
     in the recent "Dear Valued Member" letter you received?

	a.  Strongly in favor
	b.  Somewhat in favor
	c.  No opinion
	d.  Somwhat opposed
	e.  Strongly opposed

 A:         1   0.64%
 B:         4   2.56%
 C:         3   1.92%
 D:        26  16.67%
 E:       122  78.21%
--------------------------------------------------
(2)  Assuming that DCU puts Relationship Banking into place in 1994,
     will you:

	a.  Continue to do business with DCU as usual
	b.  Take your business somewhere else
	c.  Don't know

 A:        18  11.54%
 B:        87  55.77
 C:        51  32.69%
--------------------------------------------------
(3)  Would you be willing to sign a non-binding petition, directed
     at the Board of Directors, stating your opposition to fees 
     of any kind on basic services and asking the Board of Directors
     to rescind the Relationship Banking?

	a.  Yes
	b.  No
	c.  Uncertain

 A:       148  94.87%
 B:         3   1.92%
 C:         5   3.21%
--------------------------------------------------
(4)  Would you be willing to sign a binding petition requesting a
     Special Meeting for the purposes of demanding a roll-back of 
     fees on basic services?

	a.  Yes
	b.  No
	c.  Uncertain

 A:       139  89.10%
 B:         4   2.56%
 C:        13   8.33
--------------------------------------------------
(5)  Do you feel that the any of the current Board of Directors
     should be recalled if Relationship Banking is enacted in 1994?
	
	a.  Yes
	b.  No
	c.  Uncertain

 A:       109  69.87%
 B:        18  11.54%
 C:        29  18.59%
--------------------------------------------------
(6)  Are you presently "in relationship" or "out of relationship" with DCU?

	a.  In relationship
	b.  Out of relationship
	c.  None of your business

 A:       100  64.10%  
 B:        36   2.31%
 C:        20  12.82%

NOTES:

Responses which did not answer all the questions were rejected
(several readers elected to only answer 1 or 2 questions).  If a
reader replied more than once and did not indicate that they were
replying on behalf of a family member who was not able to send email,
then only the first received reply was used. 

Question 6 presented difficulties.  This question asked if the
respondent was "in relationship" or "out of relationship."  The
question failed ask if the respondent understood that they were in
relationship.  For this reason, 3.21% of the respondents answered "I'm
not sure."  These answers were translated to "none of your business."

>  (2)  Assuming that DCU puts Relationship Banking into place in 1994,
>       will you:
>
> 	a.  Continue to do business with DCU as usual
>	b.  Take your business somewhere else
>	c.  Don't know
>
>   A:        18  11.54%
>   B:        87  55.77
>   C:        51  32.69%

    What impact would there be if DCU lost 55% of it's users?  Even if this
    poll is not representative of the majority, it's safe to say that a
    large percentage of users would leave. Can DCU withstand such a loss?

    The iceberg approaches. Better find the lifeboats.

    Paul

    
>    What impact would there be if DCU lost 55% of it's users?  Even if this
>    poll is not representative of the majority, it's safe to say that a
>    large percentage of users would leave. Can DCU withstand such a loss?

    One thing to consider is that a financial institution like a CU or a
    bank counts things several ways. One is by members/depositors. An other
    is by amount of deposit. I'm pretty much assuming that these 55% of
    members will represent far less then that in deposits or even loans 
    outstanding. Perhaps as low as 10%. The DCU can easily withstand the
    loss of those deposits. Especially if those customers leaving is
    associated with a reduction in costs. So from a strictly short term
    view this probably appears as a big win to DCU management. If it 
    actually happens.

    My own concern is that this loss of membership reduces the pool of
    new borrowers. And of course if small depositors leave there is no way
    they'll ever be big depositors. That's the long term view. Perhaps DCU
    management has a "model" that shows this not to be a problem. If so,
    I'd like to hear about it.

    			Alfred

re .-1

  What you are forgetting is that 55% say they will leave and... 80+% of
these claim to be relational members!!!

>  What you are forgetting is that 55% say they will leave and... 80+% of
>these claim to be relational members!!!
    
    I haven't seen a cross tabulation that says that 80% of that 55% are
    relationship members. Even if a big percentage of those who say they
    will leave are relationship members that doesn't prove they'll actually
    leave. And even if they do I suspect that many of the ones who will
    leave have outstanding loans rather than big deposits. I could be
    wrong but if I'm right DCU will still have a lot of business with
    these people for a while.
    
    			Alfred

    	What is the statistical significance of 80% of 150 respondents
    	considering there are so many thousands of customers total?

    	And when you take into account the likelihood that the majority
    	of the people who bothered to reply are a concentration of the 
    	ones who are fired up about this issue, it wouldn't be hard to 
    	dismiss the results of this poll in its entirety.

One RELATIONSHIP MEMBER!

I said I was displeased.
I said I would leave if the fees are put in place.
And I have a loan and a savings account.

I am already looking to MOVE my loan..... I MOVED my credit cards
last year...... and when necessary I will MOVE my checking acoount.....

I have determined for MYself that  - I NO LONGER NEED THIS CREDIT UNION!
because it's very obvious to me IT DOESN'T NEED ME! - because
there will be times I AM a relationship member and there will be times 
that I will be a so called "non-relationship member"



- I know I'm only one you say..... but there are MANY silent members out here
   who will not be patient any longer!

Donna

    Donna ...
    
    Tell the Board of your displeasure, tell DCU formally of your
    displeasure. If you know others who are similarly displeased,
    they should consider doing the same thing.  Telling us that you
    want to vote with your feet does not tell DCU.  DCU needs to be
    told.
    
    Stuart

re:  .16

The smallness of the data sample did concern me.  However, consider
that other groups (like the Democrats and Republicans for example)
poll several thousand Americans and draw all sorts of conclusions
regarding who's ahead in a race, etc.  The numbers they sample
are so small as to be insignificant, yet they still draw some
meaning from it.

As for the diversity of the sample, it's important to realize
that the poll got sent out over a couple different distribution
lists to folks who don't normally read DCU notes.  I got many
replies from folks who sent me mail via All-In-One.  So, I 
think that the notion that the poll represents the views of
a bunch of us rebels isn't necessarily accurate.

An interesting thing here is that the majority of people I've
talked to, had email conversations with, and received poll
data from are relationship members.  Nearly every one of them
has said that the issue is important enough to them to cause 
them to plan to leave DCU.  And these are the views of people
who will probably not even notice when the fees kick in
because they're already in relationship.

In a twisted way, shrinking the membership base actually helps
out DCU's strategic plan in that it helps to raise the capital
ratio.  So, I suspect that DCU's management has already accounted
for this in their calculations and have concluded that all
is well.

./chris

�The smallness of the data sample did concern me.  However, consider
�that other groups (like the Democrats and Republicans for example)
�poll several thousand Americans and draw all sorts of conclusions
�regarding who's ahead in a race, etc.  The numbers they sample
�are so small as to be insignificant, yet they still draw some
�meaning from it.
    
    The numbers may be small, but they are not insignificant.  One of the
    biggest drawbacks of a poll of this type is that responses are
    completely voluntary.  In polls of the type you are questioning, a
    group is first selected using statistical sampling rules, and people
    within that group are contacted directly for their responses.  Yes,
    some error is still involved, but that's why you see the results quoted
    as plus or minus some percentage.

    
    The poll certainly would not stand up to statistical scrutiny.  To
    do that you have to design it according to certain rules and ensure
    that it is conducted and managed according to those rules BUT
    
    so what?  Over 150 people took the time to reply.  That is a large
    enough group to assert that lots of DCU members may well be very
    unhappy with the fees.  Over 1000 people attended the special meeting
    and voted overwhelmingly against fees.  This poll is a small indicator
    that that sentiment is still alive and well.  Given our resources,
    that is a good enough indicator.
    
    Steve
    

    I think two definate conclusions can be drawn from Chris' straw poll.
    First, the group of people concerned about this is definately much
    larger than the group who are complaining about it in this file.
    Second, the group of people concerned about this is definately
    not just those upon whom fees will be imposed.
    
    As .20 points out, it is impossible to tell from this voluntary-response
    survey what the overall membership feels about these issues.  Still, I 
    feel that the above are two useful things to know.  
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry