Conference 7.286::dcu

Is Digital buying down the interest rate for this?

Bob

    
    	I agree with Bob's question in .1 -- why is this program limited to
    systems purchased from Digital?  Since the official line is that there
    is no connection between DCU and Digital, why should DCU turn away a
    DCU member who wants to take out a computer loan when the computer just
    happens to be from another company?
    
    								-craig

    I suppose the program is promoting DEC equipment.
    
    You could always take a regular personal loan for a computer from
    another company.
    
    -Glenn-

    
    	Re: .3
    
    	I agree that it is promoting DEC equipment, I just wonder why?  If
    DCU and Digital are as separate as they claim to be, I see no reason
    why DCU would limit the lower interest rate computer loans to Digital
    boxes.
    
    							-craig

    RE: .0
    
    
    Yea, the auto loan rates have dropped, but one can still either equal
    or beat the "discounted for automatic payment" rates that the DCU
    offers.
    
    
    A friend of mine just bought an Explorer and got 7.75% for 4 years 
    from (somewhere, I don't remember the name)
    
    The new, lower, with the �% discount automatic payment rate at the DCU
    is that same rate.
    
    
    
    Why is this?  Isn't the idea of a credit union that the rates are lower
    for a 'select' (we know where you work, good credit risk) crowd?
    
    
    
    -bill

	I wonder what the federal laws are on such a "restricted" offer?

	This does not sound like Digital and DCU are separate entities.

	Would someone care to comment on the legality of such an offer?

	It is like saying, we have a low new car rate, but you can only buy 
	a car from Ford. Doesn't sound too good to me.

	

    It's not necessarily illegal, if for example, Digital makes an
    agreement to buy down the interest rate on such purchases.  DCU gets a
    loan it might not otherwise get, the employee gets a computer he might
    not otherwise be able to afford, and Digital gets rid of left over
    inventory that it might not otherwise be able to sell.
    
    This kind of thing is quite common in the auto and new home
    construction industry.
    
    Bob

�	This does not sound like Digital and DCU are separate entities.
    
    They are separate entities in that Digital and DCU have separate Boards
    and Officers.  They are not separate entities in that DEC employees are
    members of DCU.  I think too many people read too much into the
    statement that DEC and DCU are separate.
    
�	It is like saying, we have a low new car rate, but you can only buy 
�	a car from Ford. Doesn't sound too good to me.
    
    It may not sound good, but it happens all the time.  I doubt GMAC would
    finance the purchase of a Chrysler mini-van.

>I doubt GMAC would finance the purchase of a Chrysler mini-van.

GMAC is NOT a credit union nor a bank.  They are part of GM.  

>I think too many people read too much into the statement that DEC 
>and DCU are separate.

It is quite possible.  But that does not change the fact that DEC
might have ovestepped it's authority to have such a loan option 
be offered.  I think it is great idea, but if Digital does 
not have the PC I want, I should be able to go outside of
DEC to get the pc and the rate.  Like I said, I do not know the
legality of such a move.  One could speculate, but we should leave
the legality of the move, up to the lawyers. 

Please, I am not looking to start a ratehole on this.  Just 
wondering if a GATEWAY purchase ( or some other NON-DEC vendor ) should 
be allowed the same great rate.

-bill

    
    	Re: .7
    
>        It's not necessarily illegal, if for example, Digital makes an
>        agreement to buy down the interest rate on such purchases.  DCU gets a
>        loan it might not otherwise get, the employee gets a computer he might
>        not otherwise be able to afford, and Digital gets rid of left over
>        inventory that it might not otherwise be able to sell.
    
    	Which leads to an obvious question for the DCU board members -- did
    Digital approach DCU and offer to buy down the interest rates in return
    for offering this loan or did DCU see an opportunity with Digital's 0%
    PC financing offer being withdrawn and try to fill the gap with this
    program?  I hope it is the latter case since that would show good
    market awareness on the part of DCU.  I continue to believe, however,
    that since DCU and Digital are two separate entities, it is improper
    for DCU to, effectively, select one particular PC manufacturer over
    others and try to direct employees to that manufacturer's product.
    Imagine the probable (and correct) outroar if DCU were to come out with
    a lower interest rate deal for PC purchases if the loan had the caveat
    that the PC had to be bought from Radio Shack.  Same thing.
    
    							-craig

        Re: .8

>    It may not sound good, but it happens all the time.  I doubt GMAC would
>    finance the purchase of a Chrysler mini-van.

        I don't know about a Chrysler, but my wife financed a Subaru
        through GMAC.  I don't know the circumstances that lead to this
        financing deal as it occurred one month before we met.

        					B.J.

re: .10 and others

Until we find out whether Digital bought down the interest rate all we can do
is speculate.

Bob

    Re .all
    
    Hello DCU board members that read this file. I see you are notably
    absent from this string of replies. It would be nice if you'd stop
    speculation and answer the questions being posed here. In summary the
    questions are:
    
    	1, Why is DCU only offering low loan rates on DEC computers?
    	2, Did Digital buy down the loan rate?
    	3, What is the purpose of this new policy? Assuming Digital
           didn't buy down the rate why is the DCU artificially restricting
    	   the computer loans it can get?
    	4, Is this loan rate a losing proposition and only made to engender
    	   good will in the membership and not extended to all computers
    	   to deliberately limit the amount of money loaned at this rate?
    
    It would be nice to hear a nice quick answer.
    
    Dave

    re: 640.13
    
	Digital did not approach DCU and offer to buy down the interest
	rate.  Members of the Board (including myself) made DCU aware
	that Digital was withdrawing it's 0% financing and we felt that 
	this was a marketing opportunity for DCU.  DCU management came
	back with a proposal to fill the gap.  

	Regards,

	Tanya
    

	Tanya,

	Thanks for the reply.  Some questions still remain unanswered related
	to the legality of such a loan policy:

	Is this limitation ( DEC equipment only ) legal? 
	
	There appears to be some disagreement on this.  Has the DCU discussed
	this aspect yet?  If not, could it be made part of the next board meeting
	to resolve this issue.

	>A marketing opportunity!

	Do you mean a "marketing opportunity" for Digital, or DCU?  If DCU, then
	it would make sense you open this up to ALL brands.  If you are looking
	at Digital's gain, think again about the legal issues related to this.

	Thanks

	Bill 

    Good Job, Tanya!  Thanks for recognizing the opportunity.
    
    Has anybody even tried to get one of these loans?  Instead of all the
    useless speculation, how about someone pursuing a loan for a PC from
    somebody else?

>    Has anybody even tried to get one of these loans?  Instead of all the
>    useless speculation, how about someone pursuing a loan for a PC from
>    somebody else?

	There is a report in the DIGITAL conference about someone asking to
	get a computer loan for a non DEC PC and being turned down. 

			Alfred

	Regarding the "DEC computers only" aspect:

	The field of membership for the DEFCU is current employees 
	of Digital Equipment Corp, and family. I would expect that 
	a majority of members are Digital employees. Encouraging 
	purchase of Digital computers helps to keep members employed.
	Purchase of non-Digital computers does not tend to keep as many
	members employed...

					Tom_K

I don't see why it would be illegal or inappropriate to limit the special
deal to DEC PC's only.  Lots of businesses provide special deals to
particular groups.  E.g., scouts and scout leaders get discounts at some
mountaineering stores.  This DCU plan is clearly narrowly focussed at
Digital EPP purchasers, who used to have a cheap loan available to them
from Digital and are now likely to be easily persuaded to give the DCU a
try with a special deal.  So perhaps the narrower profit represented by
a lower interest rate is worthwhile in terms of attracting new members.

Restricting it to just Digital PC purchases has some advantages for the
DCU, besides.  For example, it is easy to find out the fair market price
of the system -- just read the EPP brochure.  There's no "blue book" for
PC's, to let a bank/CU know what is a fair price vs. an inflated price 
that would leave them with disproportionate risk.  Pick up the Computer
Shopper (if you're a weightlifter) to see how confusing PC pricing is.

I'm glad to know that there's no official tie-in to Digital.  The DCU is
not, of course, a completely separate entity from Digital in any practical
sense (though it is in a legal sense).  But it seems to me better to keep
the official connections limited.  And besides, with people still being 
laid off, I wouldn't want Digital to spend money on this.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    Tanya, thanks for the information. It's nice to see the DCU react
    quickly. I hope many people have taken up these loans. I'm still
    curious though as to why it is restricted to DEC PCs. No big deal just
    idle curiousity.
    
    Dave

    
    	I'm with Dave (.19) -- I'm glad to see that DCU saw a market
    opportuntity and reacted to it.  On that part, way to go!  I just find
    it quite odd that the deal is restricted to DEC PCs.
    
    	As to the argument that it is because DCU can more easily determine
    the book value of DEC products and thus DCU's risk is lowered, I totally
    disagree.  The prices of PCs are plumetting, so no matter _what_ PC
    DCU finances (for anything more than maybe a 6 month loan), the
    outstanding balance will quickly exceed the tradein value of the
    equipment.  These kinds of loans have basically the same risk profile
    as do straight personal loans.  In this respect, the risk to DCU of
    making a loan for a member to buy a Gateway system is identical to the
    risk of a loan used to buy a Digital system.
    
    							-craig

re .21
    
>    	As to the argument that it is because DCU can more easily determine
>    the book value of DEC products and thus DCU's risk is lowered, I totally
>    disagree.  The prices of PCs are plumetting, so no matter _what_ PC
>    DCU finances (for anything more than maybe a 6 month loan), the
>    outstanding balance will quickly exceed the tradein value of the
>    equipment.  These kinds of loans have basically the same risk profile
>    as do straight personal loans.  In this respect, the risk to DCU of
>    making a loan for a member to buy a Gateway system is identical to the
>    risk of a loan used to buy a Digital system.


  A very interesting point.  Furthermore,  PC's don't carry 
titles,  meaning you can sell the collateral out from under DCU.

  IMHO,  the facts point toward DCU eliminating all "discount"  computer
loans,  rather than expanding the offering to Gateway or other 
systems.

  A Computer loan carries as much risk as a vacation loan,  or a personal
loan,  and should carry the same interest rate, IMHO.  (I do think their
personal loan rates are too high,  but that's a different subject...)

  I do,  however have no objection to DCU working to promote the sale
of DEC equipment...  :^)


						-al

    
    re .22:
    
    Because DCU owners don't as a rule, have a vested interest in the
    success of any particular car manufacturer?
    

re .22:

Because DCU branch offices are not tied in to the locations of any
particular car manufacturer's dealerships?  

    
    	I believe the point that .22 was getting at is that DCU is, or is
    supposed to be, as unrelated to the different car manufacturers as it is
    supposed to be (imo) for the different computer manufacturers.  (If that
    wasn't your point, forgive me for putting words in your mouth.)  I want
    Digital to succeed and I want DCU to provide services that DCU members
    want, I have just this gut, and difficult to put into words, feeling that
    a very important line has been crossed here.  Similiar to, lets say,
    my reaction if DCU were to announce that mortgage rates for homes
    bought by a DCU member from another DCU member would be lower than
    homes bought from "outsiders" -- it would feel to me like DCU was playing
    favorites in an area outside its scope.  Do I think that DCU should
    have lowered interest rates on PCs?  Yes, the more our employees know
    of PCs the better we will be, but I don't think it should have this
    "DEC only" restriction.
    
    							-craig

    It never fails.  *Every* time I leave town on business, something kicks
    up in here!  Pardon my non-participation but I wasn't dialing in from
    Cinci.
    
    NO, these loans are not being bought down by DEC.  And I believe the
    reasons why this program applies to DEC systems has been stated.  You
    may not agree with it but the DEC computer loan program has been that
    way for 12 years.  Believe it or not we all have a vested interest in
    DEC succeeding.  Also, DEC supports the credit union in various ways. 
    (facilities, etc.)  Quite frankly, without that support the credit 
    union probably wouldn't exist. 
    
    Having said that I would like to make it perfectly clear that DEC had
    NOTHING to do with this.  I have been investigating PCs for personal 
    use for the last several months.  During that time it became clear 
    there was a great need and opportunity on the horizon (volume sales of 
    affordable PCs *and* Pentium in March?).  I sent mail to the entire 
    Board on DEC 16, 1992 suggesting we consider a reduction in the computer 
    loan rates to take advantage of this opportunity while providing DCU 
    members with a good service and supporting our sponsor in the process 
    (as DCU has done for 12 years).  My summary was "This could be a rare 
    win-win-win situation."  DCU management came back with lower rates across 
    the board, including the computer loan rate.
    
    As for the legality of these loans...  All I can say is that they have
    not been illegal for the last 12 years that DCU has offered them so I
    don't believe they are illegal now just because PCs have come into
    DEC's product line.
    
    Here I thought that this would be welcomed with enthusiasm.  After
    reading the last 28 replies, I'm a tad confused by the reaction of some
    people.
    

    
    
    Phil, as usual in here lately, you just can't seem to please anybody..
    Given the opportunity to b***h about something, well you know the
    results...
    
    I honestly can't see why people don't find DCU's offer to lower interest 
    rates on DEC PC's a real problem... Yes, I realize, DEC PC's are not
    the lowest price on the market, in fact a good number of people I know
    go to APEX or White Mountain (here in Nashua) and get a much better 
    deal...  
    
    I think it's great that the DCU is giving a way for us DECcies to
    support our company...  They didn't have to do this, and thus you would
    be paying a higher rate no matter what PC you bought... Then someone
    would probably ask, "Hey, why doesn't the DCU provide a lower interest
    loan to buy DEC PC's?? You know support the hand that feeds you, etc"..
    Just because a BOD member thought this up it's not a good idea?? 
    Where's the logic
    
    
    John - who is still waiting for DEC PC prices to become competitive...
    
    
    

>    Here I thought that this would be welcomed with enthusiasm.  After
>    reading the last 28 replies, I'm a tad confused by the reaction of some
>    people.

    I think it reflects more on the non competitiveness of DEC PS
    offering than on the DCU. More and more people want (even need) to
    buy PCs and the fact that they can get a lot better deal buying
    somewhere other than DEC is frustrating. Anything related to DEC PCs has
    become tarred with that brush. Guilt by association. :-)

    I bought my first computer (a Rainbow some 7 years ago) with a DCU
    computer loan. I thought it was a good idea then and I think it's a
    good idea now. It's just that I feel better about who I'd be using to
    finance the purchase than I might about who I'd have to be buying it 
    from. :-(  (Though I am happy with the DEC PC I bought with an interest
    free loan.)

    			Alfred

    I agree with this program. If you want a PC, buy a DEC one.
    
    However, I do wish the loan program covered other DEC products (can you
    say Alpha?).
    
    -Glenn-

Phil,

The problem is that the EPP price for Digitals PCs is not price or value
competitive with the rest of the marketplace.  In my particular case, the DECpc
425ST on my desk doesn't seem to even be 100% compatible with PC software.  None
of this is DCUs fault.

The reasons that no one has complained about the DEC product only policy for the
past 12 years are, until recently:

	1)  With the exception of things like the Dumbow, very few people could
	    afford a piece of DEC gear, even at EPP prices.

	2)  People with VMS skills were very marketable.

	3)  The "PC is a toy" mentality of many Digital employees and most
	    of the senior managers.

Now, people realize that if you don't know PCs, you are rather unmarketable.
Combine that with the downsizing at Digital, and you have a mad rush to purchase
PCs.  Decies tend to be smart shoppers and discovered that Digital PCs are not
a great deal.

The end result is that DCU is needlessly limiting it's customer base when they
should be taking advantage of the PC purchases of its members.

Bob

    
    RE: .32
    
>    However, I do wish the loan program covered other DEC products (can you
>    say Alpha?).
    
    	You CAN purchase Alpha systems with these loans.  They are not just
    DEC PC loans.
    
    RE: .33
    
    Bob, *believe me* I understand completely.  After months of research I
    bought a non-DEC PC, unfortunately.  I wanted to buy DEC but the
    system I was interested in just didn't fit the bill, feature-wise.  But
    that may not be the case with other people.
    
    I think it is very important that people seperate the DEC/EPP issues
    from the DCU issues here.  Yes, I also wish that DEC opened up EPP for
    all PCs.  That would bring them into the "great-deal" spectrum.  Heck,
    even 10% off would help.  But these are Digital issues.
    

>    	You CAN purchase Alpha systems with these loans.  They are not just
>    DEC PC loans.
    
    Great! I didn't know that. (Wish I could afford one thought - maybe
    when the Jensen is available.)
    
    -Glenn-
    

    
    	Phil,
    
    	I hadn't realized that for the last 12 years, the computer loan was
    only for Digital products.  Thanks for pointing this out.  Not that I
    think this excuses selecting a particular vendor, but at least it is
    helpful to note that this is not a new policy.
    
    								-craig

Craig, Phil,

I hate to disagree with you, but the DEC-only computer loan is relatively
recent.  6 years ago, I bought a COmmodore Amiga with a "computer loan."  Last
Christmas, I went to buy a TI notebook system and it was a "DEC computer loan."

To be honest, the first time, I used a Mastercharge card and then "Refinanced"
using the DCU loan, but I don't think that makes a difference.

BobW

>================================================================================
>Note 640.36                 New Lower DCU Loan Rates                    36 of 36
>TUXEDO::YANKES                                        9 lines   5-FEB-1993 11:39
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    
>        Phil,
>    
>        I hadn't realized that for the last 12 years, the computer loan was
>    only for Digital products.  Thanks for pointing this out.  Not that I
>    think this excuses selecting a particular vendor, but at least it is
>    helpful to note that this is not a new policy.
>    
>                                                                -craig
>

I'm pretty much a read only noter here, since before the elections.

I realize I'm about to stir up a hornets nest but...

I have to say if I were a member of the board,  I'd really begin to question
what I see in here. EVERYTHING they do gets cross-examined, trashed, second
guessed, over analyzed, and shredded. Keep it up and they won't try anything
new or innovative. It ain't worth the aggravation.

As a member of a volunteer board who also has to put up with this, I 
wouldn't blame them either.

							Mark

    RE: .38
    
    So your saying what? Accept whatever decisions they make without
    question?
    
    -Glenn-

	RE: .38

	I, like others, applaude the board for making low interest
	loans available so quickly after the EPP blowout. All that
	others are asking is to make them available for non-DEC
	systems.

	DEC systems do not provide to me and many others the 
	features that makers like Gateway and Dell offer. Not only
	can I not get a tower system from DEC, even if I could, it
	would be a few hundred $$ more. Now, this was offset somewhat
	by the 0% interest EPP loans. I bought a 320p for me and a 
	320sx for my brother that way. But I need a tower system with
	lots of other things that DEC doesn't have and I want it at
	a price that is in the same ballpark as Gateway. DEC cannot
	provide that. So, all we are asking is to let the DCU let us
	get loans for those systems too.

						mike

�I have to say if I were a member of the board,  I'd really begin to question
�what I see in here. EVERYTHING they do gets cross-examined, trashed, second
�guessed, over analyzed, and shredded. Keep it up and they won't try anything
�new or innovative. It ain't worth the aggravation.
    
    Since some of the new board members did exactly that with the old board
    I would hope they'd be thick-skinned enough to stick with it.

	In any organization, there will always be those who:

		o blindly follow

		o always oppose

		o ask intelligent questions and offer constructive criticism

	It is the exceptional person who can change the behavior of the
	first two groups. Reasonable leaders will 1) listen to the third.
	2) Know the difference between the three. 

	I think our new Bod is doing a reasonable job of both. A task at
	which the old board failed. Whether they failed on 1, 2, or both
	I do not know, but one or the other was a big reason for their demise.

					Tom_K

    
    By all means, PLEASE DO NOT STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!  Prod, poke, do what
    ever it takes to get the answers.  I will put my skin thickness up
    against anybody in here... ;-) 
    
    
    And I will say again, if DEC systems lack features and
    price/performance that our competitors are offering then that is a
    *DIGITAL* issue and not a DCU issue.  You should direct that feedback
    to the appropriate DEC product manager.  Having just recently purchased
    a Gateway system, I know *exactly* what you are talking about.  But I
    am not in a position to change anything in that area.
    
    There is a cordial relationship between our sponsor (DEC) and DCU.  I
    would not risk that relationship by offering DCU computer loans for
    purchases of computers which compete against our sponsor company.  DEC
    does not have to support the credit union as well as it does.  I
    believe it would not be in the best interests of DEC, DEC employees,
    DCU or DCU members to open the program to non-DEC systems.  Flame me if
    you must, but all I ask is that you make sure you're flaming the right 
    person, for the right issue.
    
    Please note, DCU will loan money for the purchase of non-DEC systems at
    the rate of unsecured loans, assuming you qualify of course.
    

re: .5

At the risk of diverting the discussion, the new auto loan rates for
2-4 years, with the discount for automatic payments, is only 6.9%, not
7.75% (that was the rate before they got lowered).  The dealership I
went to was impressed, and didn't even try to match that rate.

(Note that you can find some manufacturer-incentive financing at lower
rates, but only because the manufacturer is subsidizing the sale 
indirectly.)

   Gary

    
    And the rates posted in .0 are now *EVEN LOWER* if you can believe it.
    Seems long term interest rates have been dropping the past week.
    

In response to the question, "so what am I suggesting?", Tom did a much 
better job describing it than I. I guess I was a bit on edge on Friday.

>                o blindly follow
>
>                o always oppose
>
>                o ask intelligent questions and offer constructive criticism

What I was trying to say was that as a somewhat impartial reader of this
conference, there seem to be an awful lot of notes which fall into category
#2. I'm not saying all. There are also many in category #3. However, those
in #2 seem to drown out the other messages.

I would add a fourth category. 

		o offer thanks when you perceive a good thing has been done.

Volunteer work can be very demanding on both time and energy. One "thanks
for trying to help" can go a long way toward building the skin thick enough
to listen to the constructive criticism.

I'll get off the soapbox now and return to my passive reading...

								Mark

re: .46

I think you will find a fair amount of #4 responses in here.  You can also be
sure that a lot more are going out in private.  Those of us working issues
with the BoD definately appreciate the effort involved.

Bob

   Re: Note 640.29 by GUFFAW::GRANSEWICZ
   
�    Here I thought that this would be welcomed with enthusiasm.  After
�    reading the last 28 replies, I'm a tad confused by the reaction of some
�    people.
    
   I seem to recall that somewhere around 1980 (pre-DCU) we were part of
   a CU that would not lend us money to buy Digital computers, and this
   was one of the primary reasons for forming our own credit union.  We
   wanted to buy Digital computers, and we wanted our CU to loan us the
   money to do it.  So, it goes beyond a DCU/Digital relationship; 
   these loans were one of the "charter goals" for the credit union.
   
   DCU came through, and they are now offering us an even better deal.
   We have no right to complain that DCU continues to achieve this goal. 
   Changing the goal is another discussion.

    Hey Phil
    
    
    You mentioned that the rates were going down again, any ideas on what
    they are?
    
    
    I was just offered 6.49% for up to 4 years on a new Villager from the
    Mercury dealer.  I'd rather give the DCU my business, but that's a hell
    of a deal compared to the 7.75% they now offer.....
    
    
    
    -bill

re .49:

FYI, for a loan of $10,000 for 4 years, the monthly payment at 6.49% is
just $6 less than the monthly payment at 7.75%.  On my loan, I decided 
to stick with the DCU, even though it was a few bucks a month more,
because I like the automatic payroll deduction.  My mortgage company
would do the same for me, but only if I sign a form that says they have
the right to deduct any amount they want from my account at any time 
they want.  No thanks.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    RE: .49
    
    Bill, I don't know what the current rates are off the top of my head
    but you should be able to get the current rates by calling the Info
    Center (800-DCU-8797).
    

re: .49

As I said in .44, the new car rates are now 6.9%, assuming automatic
payments.  At least this held last Wed., when I signed the papers and
picked up the check for my new car loan.

re: .52, .50

I also hope that people would not use the "few bucks a month" ruse.
The numbers in .50 come out to $288 over the life of the loan
(6x12x4), enough to pay for an upgraded stereo or a nice weekend
trip in the new vehicle.  It's not an insignificant amount.  

Any cost differential can be made to seem small by dividing it into enough
small pieces.  That's a standard sales tactic, not just for car
sales, but appliance sales, extended warranty sales, overpriced 
insurance.  For just pennies a day, you too can have something you don't
need and could get much cheaper elsewhere.

   Gary 

    
    Re: .53
    
    Andrew Tobias writer of The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need
    and a PC-based personal financial management package puts it this
    way in his book:  Make sure you plug all the leaks in your household
    budget and don't pay any more for what you need than you have to.
    It amazes him how people will investigate and agonize over investment
    returns which might mean a few hundred bucks when literally hundreds
    and perhaps even thousands are frittered away by lack of household
    money management.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
      
    
    

> I also hope that people would not use the "few bucks a month" ruse.
> The numbers in .50 come out to $288 over the life of the loan
> (6x12x4), enough to pay for an upgraded stereo or a nice weekend
> trip in the new vehicle.  It's not an insignificant amount.  

Ruse?  Ahem!  It's not a ruse, it's a tradeoff.  Sticking with DCU
costs me personally something like $3/month.  I compared that against
the personal annoyance of having to write and mail a check every month
and decided that I'd stick with the DCU.  That's a monthly cost vs.
a monlthy annoyance -- a direct comparison.  If I had divided the cost
down to weekly or daily dribbles, you'd have a right to call it a ruse.

For $6 per month, I'd probably take the lower rate.  But on the other 
hand, if DCU is really 6.9% with payroll deduction, we're back to the
few bucks a month range.  And I'm not telling *you* what to do, I'm
telling you what *I* did.  No doubt others find monthly bills less
annoying than I do and might make a different decision.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    Weekly loan and investment rates are also available on LIVEWIRE.

>
>              <<< Note 640.56 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>
>    Weekly loan and investment rates are also available on LIVEWIRE.
>

Now if the person who had the job of updating the pages on live wire 
would go replace the 2-aug pages with something a bit more current, it 
would be more useful.

Off to the 800 number for some (hopefully) more current information.
/jon

    /jon, my reply was written almost a year ago.  It looks like things
    have changed.

>              <<< Note 640.58 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>
>    /jon, my reply was written almost a year ago.  It looks like things
>    have changed.

Your reply of a year ago is still valid. The rates are still in the VTX
screens about the DCU. It's just that the information in the screens is
valid for Aug 93. IE. August was the last time that the rates were posted.

Two correct courses of action the DCU can take:
	1. update the screens in VTX in a timely fashion.
	2. Change the message to point the consumer to the 800 number.

The 800 number worked fine. 

/jon

Um, just because the date on the VTX screen says August, doesn't mean the 
rates are that old. I extract those screens every few weeks, and I find that
the rates have changed.  I used to think the August date (or the July date
on the savings rate screens) was real.  This VTX feature is being handled really
poorly.

Elaine