Conference 7.286::dcu

This seems to be one of those cases where a system can be performing "as
specified, as advertised", yet which catches users unawares.  The following
MAIL message made the rounds back in September, and echos your sense of
surprise.

I've edited out names for posting, although I imagine the author would be
happy to have the experience be widely shared.

-------------------------------
From:   [...]   Date: 13-Sep-91 09:35 AM
Subject: FWD: Beware the EFT program!
        [...]
Subj:	FYI: Warning about using the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) program
        [...]
From:	[...]   12-SEP-1991 13:21:55.66
Subj:	Further warning about EFT (electronic funds transfer) program - be 
warned!

I came very close to bouncing $3000 dollars worth of checks and probably 
doing a great deal of damage to my credit rating in the process, thanks to 
my participation in the EFT program.

I recently ran a $3100 tab on my corporate AMEX card teaching [off site].
Because I had an advance out, all the usual mileage forms and other refunds
piled up waiting for me to clear the advance. 

The paperwork was signed last Friday, and I got 5 messages in a row saying 
that several thousand plus several hundred dollars had been deposited in 
account.  I had given my badge number, I believe, to enroll in the EFT 
program, so it made sense that this was going into either my DCU checking 
or savings accounts.

I wrote several thousand dollars worth of checks (including all my own 
bills) and paid the AMEX bill from the [teaching] trip and mailed them over 
the weekend.

On Wednesday, I luckily happened to use my ATM card to get some cash and
noticed that I had a very low balance.  It seemed extremely unlikely that
everything had cleared so fast, so where was the money?  Not in checking
and not in savings, 5 days after getting a confirmation. 

Thursday morning, I ran to DCU in somewhat of a panic, imagining the check 
bounce fees starting to pile up.  They had no record of a deposit.  Now I 
also have a Bay Bank checking account that $12 a week is diverted to in 
order to make a loan payment.  I don't use that account, and I don't have 
checks for it, so I rarely even think about it.  DCU explained that the EFT 
refunds go wherever your "net pay" goes.  To me, your "net pay" is what is left 
over after taxes and FICA...but to DEC it turns out that your "net pay" is
the amount that goes to some outside bank, neatly sidestepping the credit
union.  

I went to Petty Cash, where I was listened to quite sympathetically.  Turns 
out that it is impossible to divert these refunds to anyplace that would be 
useful to me in terms of writing checks.  Instead, I would have to drive to
a Bay Bank in Massachusetts and get a cashier's check and run back to DCU
with it.  I cancelled my participation in the EFT program and wrote some
rather emphatic comments detailing what I thought of the potential impact
of this program on my financial standing and credit rating. 

Then the fun really started.  I'm already well into the morning, and at 
this point determine I will have to skip an important meeting in order to 
pick up the pieces of this mess before any checks are processed.

I drive to Chelmsford, and wait in line at the Bay Bank for a teller.
I finally get to the window to find that yes, I have several thousand
dollars in my account, but no, she can't give it to me.  I have to go stand
in line to talk to one of the people who actually has a desk and get
permission to withdraw my own money.  In order to do this, I have to
explain why I want it.  I found myself standing in line while one person
with a desk haggles with someone on the phone over a $10 dollar discrepancy
in some account for 20 minutes, and the next person with a desk waits
patiently while an elderly gentleman signs several thousand dollars worth of
travelers checks -- in 50s, I believe.  Meanwhile, I'm visualizing thousands
of dollars worth of damage occuring while I wait for permission to withdraw
money they never should have seen. 

I finally get to talk to someone who can give me the permission (after 
having me explain EFT about 5 times) only to find out there's a $5 service fee
for the cashier's check!  (I was willing to take cash, but they didn't think
that was a good idea at all.) 

I finally head back to DCU and hit the lunch line crowd in the credit 
union, all of whom seemed to be either depositing pennies, or ordering new 
checks.  I got back to my desk at noon -- net loss to DEC of 3.5 hours work 
time when I could have been doing something useful and productive for the 
company.

The good news was that no checks had bounced.

If Digital is going to offer programs such as EFT to "save the company 
money", the person in charge of the program needs to ensure that employees 
understand exactly where their funds will go, and when.  My morning cost 
the company a fair amount of money, in addition to the mileage driving to 
Chelmsford from Nashua.  Too bad I can't get the 5 bucks back...

> I drive to Chelmsford, and wait in line at the Bay Bank for a teller.
> I finally get to the window to find that yes, I have several thousand
> dollars in my account, but no, she can't give it to me.  I have to go stand
> in line to talk to one of the people who actually has a desk and get
> permission to withdraw my own money.

You know, I've seen a lot of weird stuff happen with DCU, but I have to
admit I've never been required to ask permission to withdraw my own money!
Wonder why Bay Bank would have a requirement like this.

When I bought a new car, I had the cash in my checking account at DCU, and
simply walked in, presented identification, and asked for a cashier's check
for the required amount.  I was out of there in 10 minutes with close to
$15K. 

./chris

    It took me about the same 10 minutes to get a $150,000 cashiers check
    from the DCU when I bought a new house.

.1> If Digital is going to offer programs such as EFT to "save the company 
.1> money", the person in charge of the program needs to ensure that employees 
.1> understand exactly where their funds will go, and when. 

When I signed up, it was very clear where the funds go.   Your net pay is the
amount in the "net pay" box on your pay stub.  If you have money going to DCU
that's a payroll deduction I guess, not a direct deposit (unless of course you 
designate your DCU account as the direct deposit account).  The $12 that goes
to baybank must be your direct deposit (I can't imagine it always being exactly
$12... isn't it sometimes $12.01 or $11.99?).

	While I sympathize with the author of the note posted in .1, I can not
	fault Digital or the person(s) who developed the EFT system. 

	I think that the case of .1 was unusual, in that the Net Deposit was
	a meagre sum of 12$. The way our paychecks are structured, the deposit
	into DCU is considered a "deduction", and the Net Pay is where the 
	largest chunk of your net paycheck goes, or where you do your regular 
	banking. The instructions for EFT sign up were clear on this issue.
	The person in .1 has to accept the blame for misunderstanding the
	instructions and the intent of Net Pay.

	I like EFT. For the two occasions I had to use it, I found that the 
	money was deposited in my account within 3 days of my giving the 
	vouchers to my secretary. Previously, it took anywhere from 7 to 10
	days (and more if my secretary happened to be on vacation in that 
	timeframe). 

EFT would be much easier if DEC lost the notion of coupling
it to your payroll profile, and instead simply said "give us the
account number and interbank number where you want the money to go."
No fuss, no muss, no running around....

At a previous employer, this was the case.  Several folks I knew had
pay going to one account, and expense account stuff written out of 
and deposited into a separate account.  

Sounds like one for the Suggestion Box to me...

/chris

Still one more example of the not-so-old adage:

Anytime you don't completely understand a transaction that you're entering into,
you're going to get screwed.

Yes, it all makes perfectly logical sense if you're the type (like me) who has
to understand every single number that appears on a paycheck, phone bill, etc.
It'd be nice if they did give you the pleasant reminder where it went.

re .5:

> ...the Net Pay is where the 
> largest chunk of your net paycheck goes, or where you do your regular 
> banking.

Sorry to be picky, but while either or both of these may (often) be true,
neither of them is always the case.  Net pay is the amount (in the net pay box)
that remains after all your deductions come out (including any DCU deductions,
which are for a fixed amount each week, and which you request on one of those
"automatic deduction" cards that you get from DCU.)  You may have your net pay
directly deposited into a bank or the DCU (or another credit union) by filling
out a special direct deposit form, or you may even get a live paycheck (what
a concept!)  The "DCU deduction" process must be for a fixed amount per week.

I haven't had any problem with the new EFT process.  My husband is sent mail
(from where, I don't remember) announcing that the money has been put in our
account, he forwards it to me, and I make sure it gets recorded in the check
book and spent :-)

Jill

>Sorry to be picky, but while either or both of these may (often) be true,
>neither of them is always the case.  Net pay is the amount (in the net pay box)
>that remains after all your deductions come out (including any DCU deductions,
>which are for a fixed amount each week, and which you request on one of those
>"automatic deduction" cards that you get from DCU.)  You may have your net pay
>directly deposited into a bank or the DCU (or another credit union) by filling
>out a special direct deposit form, or you may even get a live paycheck (what
>a concept!)  The "DCU deduction" process must be for a fixed amount per week.



  The above is correct.  The net pay is the portion you have 'direct deposited'.
Where ever that money goes (as listed in the payroll system) is where your 
EFT deposits go.  

  I should know...I coded a very large portion of the EFT software.    8^)



                         Jim

  

    My experience in dealing with BayBank for several fairly large
    transactions mirrored those in .1. When selling my house during
    relocation, I inquired at BayBank about wire transfers. I was told I
    had to go the branch where I opened my account, talk to the branch
    manager and let them know ahead of time that there was going to be a
    wire transfer because "they don't like surprises". I wouldn't be able
    to get my money as soon as it hit my account and they didn't really
    know when I'd be able to get it, but "probably within a day or so". I
    know that wire transfers are a very new way to move money from bank to
    bank (read this with sarcasm oozing from every pore) and that BayBank
    just wants to be very careful. I guess it was this attention to detail
    that made them want to put a hold on two bank cashier checks (totalling less
    than $7,000) for 5 days while they cleared. I took the checks to DCU
    which made the money available immediately and the had the wire
    transfer go to DCU which made the money available as soon as it hit my
    account. I do as little business with BayBank as possible.

    Yes.  The DCU was willing to give me a cashiers check for $150K for my
    new house as soon as the wire transfer arrived.

re: BayBank...

I'm quite surprised that folks have had all these kinds of trouble
with cashing checks and clearing wire transfers.  Isn't BayBank the one
running the ad campaign showing all their high tech ways and espousing
something akin to 'better banking through high technology?'

DCU has handled the few transactions of this type that I've required with
absolutely no trouble.  I use a deep discount brokerage in Boston, and they
too have handled wire transfers and cash transfers easily.

Not to rathole here, but while I'm thinking about it, it's worth pointing out
that in the 3 years I've banked with DCU, they've never, ever, messed up 
a transaction, sent me an incorrect statement, or mishandled anything.  When
I think about some of the other messes I've had to straighten out with other
financial institutions, dealing with DCU is a pleasure.  From the standpoint
of handling my transactions, both simple and comples, with accuracy and
efficiency, DCU deserves high marks.

./chris