T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
540.1 | exit | VICE::BROWN | | Tue Apr 28 1992 10:14 | 8 |
| Dave,
They are going to mail the new card to your home & the mail
will not include your PIN. This seems good enough to me.
dave
|
540.2 | Another case | VSSCAD::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Tue Apr 28 1992 13:33 | 8 |
| I lost an ATM card that I had at another bank (which has no foreign ATM fees,
btw). It was replaced at no cost.
Does it really cost the credit union $5 to process and mail a new ATM card? I
would expect a "nominal" fee, perhaps, while we are getting back on our feet,
but this seems steep.
Elaine
|
540.3 | | SSDEVO::EGGERS | Anybody can fly with an engine. | Tue Apr 28 1992 13:44 | 1 |
| $5 certainly seems nominal to me.
|
540.4 | | SQM::MACDONALD | | Tue Apr 28 1992 14:12 | 12 |
|
I consider $5 nominal as well, but...
What about the other side of it. My bank charges $3 no matter
what the reason is for needing a replacement i.e. if an ATM chews
up my card so that it won't work anymore it costs me to get
another one and that *includes* the bank's own ATMs! That's part
that gripes me.
Steve
|
540.5 | | QBUS::M_PARISE | | Tue Apr 28 1992 14:22 | 9 |
|
I'm sure I'm missing some principle of high finance here but:
X number of transactions (at an ATM) X $1.00 per = X number $
O number of transactions (keep-your-silly-card) = O number $
They should be eager to get you a card ASAP.
|
540.6 | | SSDEVO::EGGERS | Anybody can fly with an engine. | Tue Apr 28 1992 14:26 | 7 |
| $3?
$5?
Doesn't seem to make much difference, given the inconvenience of it
all.
Now if the charge were $15!
|
540.7 | | DELNI::GASKELL | | Tue Apr 28 1992 14:44 | 4 |
| Not only is the replacement card mailed to your house, the PIN number
is as well, or at least it was, in a spearate mailing (I have only had
to replace my card once and that was about 5 years ago so I'm no expert.)
|
540.8 | | STAR::CANTOR | Dave Cantor | Tue Apr 28 1992 23:11 | 29 |
| re .1,.7
Oh, they're not going to issue me a new PIN; that's not required because
I stated that the PIN was not lost with the card. (Not only did I state
it, but it's the truth.) If they were going to issue me a new PIN, the
PIN would be mailed to my address of record separately from the new
card. That's would be just fine. That's not what I feel somewhat
insecure about.
My insecurity is about how little information I had to give them to
convince them I was the owner of my account: Just my DIGITAL BADGE
NUMBER and my SSAN. It's extremely easy to find out someone's badge
number (and even easier to find out someone's name if you know their
badge number), and it's fairly easy to find someone's SSAN.
I believe my funds to be secure (because they mail things only to the
address of record--that's very good), but it would be relatively easy
to perpertrate a denial of service attack against someone by calling
the DCU and giving them the person's badge and SSA numbers and saying
that the card was lost. It would be much more difficult for someone
to discover my mother's maiden name, e.g.
Re $5 fee.
It's nominal, but it's petty. I already admitted I was willing to pay
it in order to regain the convenience of having the card, but it pissed
me off.
Dave C.
|
540.9 | | KYOA::KOCH | It never hurts to ask... | Wed Apr 29 1992 09:39 | 6 |
| Dave,
When I lost my card, they demanded to issue me a new PIN. A local
bank machine ate my card at the time. I too am dismayed that all they
wanted was the info you mentioned. They should have issued a new PIN as
well.
|
540.10 | | BULEAN::TARANTO | You want to do what? | Wed Apr 29 1992 10:11 | 5 |
| RE: $5
It's not the money, anyone can afford $5. It's just another example of DCU
nickel-and-diming us. If the DCU wants to make money, stop the petty fees and
give out more loans.
|
540.11 | | VSSCAD::MAYER | Reality is a matter of perception | Wed Apr 29 1992 10:31 | 13 |
| This is one example of where I disagree. It does cost money to issue
a new card and it's not the cost of the plastic. People have to be involved
and their time costs money. So I don't think you should ask the DCU (i.e.
the members) to shoulder your loss. $5 is actually very little.
I also don't see a problem with their not asking you for personal
information. After all they send it to the mailing address on file. If you
had supplied them with a different address, then that would be a different
matter. I shouldn't matter who asked for it, or whether or not they are able
to give personal details, they card gets sent the same way and to the same
place.
Danny
|
540.12 | What is the real concern | STAR::BUDA | DCU Elections - Vote for a change... | Wed Apr 29 1992 10:44 | 15 |
| I lost my card a while back (actually my wallet was stolen). I had to
pay $5, also. They asked if I had the PIN in the wallet and since I
did not, I told them so. I was not issued a new PIN.
I think what gripes everyone is that DCU's $5 charge is not the NORM in
the industry. If everyone charged $5 for new cards, no one would
complain.
The other problem is that it will take DCU around 2 weeks to get you a
new card. Everyone else has you a new one in less than a week. You
feel ripped off when DCU charges you $5 but takes twice as long as the
ones that do not charge you. (Note that I am comparing times
VISA/MC/MOBIL/DISCOVER).
- mark
|
540.13 | Baybanks charges $5 | ATSE::MORGAN | Silence, the sound of peace | Wed Apr 29 1992 10:55 | 16 |
|
My wife's wallet was stolen - but was recovered the same day.
Still, we cancelled all the credit cards because we didn't want
to take the chance that somebody knew her credit card numbers and
expiration dates.
The only card that cost money to replace was her Baybank Mastercard -
$5.00.
FWIW, I'm glad $5 isn't the norm, or this would have cost us about
$50.00! $5 isn't much, but it does add up.
-- Jim
P.S. Since we recovered her ATM card, and the number wasn't in her
wallet, there was no need to get that replaced!
|
540.14 | Cost? Yes. Customer satisfaction, the best investment | MLTVAX::SCONCE | Bill Sconce | Wed Apr 29 1992 11:22 | 22 |
| .11> This is one example of where I disagree. It does cost money to issue
.11> a new card and it's not the cost of the plastic. People have to be
.11> involved and their time costs money. So I don't think you should ask
.11> the DCU (i.e. the members) to shoulder your loss. $5 is actually very
.11> little.
IMO, the problem in discussions of this type spring from a deeper level. (One
which the previous Board had trouble understanding.) It's not a question of
current dollars. The question is improperly phrased.
To state it correctly (IMO): if I am the DCU, and you are my ATM customer,
and you lose your card, is it not worth $5 to me (the DCU) to have you happy
with the "good service" you'll brag about if I treat you well? Is it not
likely that your opinion of me is worth far more than $5?
In other words, the question should be stated not in terms of "other members",
but in terms of future business from the very same customer.
(The extreme example of the old way of thinking was that business of the fees
on checking accounts. Driving shareholders to leave the credit union was the
result -- far more expensive than a couple of dollars a month.)
|
540.15 | | OASS::MDILLSON | Generic Personal Name | Wed Apr 29 1992 13:02 | 12 |
| re .8
As the victim of a "denial of service" "prank", I can tell you what a
hassle it is once these security procedures are set in place. Your
bank will not give you the time of day unless you answer really bizarre
questions like "What is your mother's maiden name?" or some odd thing
from your applications and records.
These procedures are placed into your records once you complain about a
problem with someone else making changes to your account.
It is a pain! But, worth it.
|
540.16 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Apr 29 1992 13:18 | 23 |
| Comparing a charge card to an ATM card is apples and oranges. Most
cards charge an annual fee. All charge interest on unpaid balances.
Most charge a fee for cash advances. For this reason, they are quite
willing to eat the cost of giving a replacement card. Also, charge
card companies are generally responsible for all charges on a
lost/stolen card. They want to issue a new card with (usually) a new
number as fast as possible to protect themselves.
An ATM card on the other hand is not a direct revenue generator for a
financial institution. If we can believe DCU, the $1 fee they charge
goes into the external network supplying the service and not into the
coffers of the DCU.
For a fraud to be committed using the method of calling DCU and
supplying a member's badge number and SSN and claiming a lost card, the
thief would also have to have the PIN and be camped out at the member's
mailbox.
Most of the financial institutions I've dealt with have a fee for
replacing a lost card. Maybe this isn't the norm, but it certainly
isn't an isolated incident. DCU also doesn't hide the fact. I believe
it's in the published fee schedule available at any branch office and
it is in the ATM card literature.
|
540.17 | Bank transactions made stress free | VSSCAD::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Wed Apr 29 1992 13:40 | 11 |
| Well, to be fair, the bank which replaced my lost ATM card for free is Safety
Fund Bank. They are best known for their completely free checking accounts
(no service charge, no minimum balance, no charge for basic checks, no interest,
no fee at foreign ATMs).
This card is for a savings account. The interest rate isn't the greatest, but
the convenience of being able to use any ATM to do banking is wonderful. When
they replaced the card, they told me that the PIN number I used the first time
would be the new PIN. Couldn't be easier.
Elaine
|
540.18 | Customer Service! | STAR::BUDA | DCU Elections - Vote for a change... | Wed Apr 29 1992 14:00 | 50 |
| RE: 540.16 (MACNEAL)
>Comparing a charge card to an ATM card is apples and oranges. Most
>cards charge an annual fee.
I am glad I do not have any of the cards you do. I only have ONE out
of MANY that charge a fee. I only keep that one because it is in my
wifes name and she wants it. None of the CC companies charged me a
cent for replacing my CC, but DCU charged me for both the CC and ATM
card.
>All charge interest on unpaid balances.
>Most charge a fee for cash advances. For this reason, they are quite
>willing to eat the cost of giving a replacement card. Also, charge
>card companies are generally responsible for all charges on a
>lost/stolen card.
You would think DCU would do the same for their CC's, as everything you
have said above applies to DCU also...
>They want to issue a new card with (usually) a new
>number as fast as possible to protect themselves.
Issuing a new card does not protect them, but canceling the previous
one does. The CC companies want happy customers and service is one way
of doing this (I asked...).
>An ATM card on the other hand is not a direct revenue generator for a
>financial institution. If we can believe DCU, the $1 fee they charge
>goes into the external network supplying the service and not into the
>coffers of the DCU.
The ATM card is a money saver. It allows a person to execute a
transaction without involving a human. That is a savings, providing
they would now have to visit a DCU teller to transact the same business
because they do not have a card.
>Most of the financial institutions I've dealt with have a fee for
>replacing a lost card.
I am surprised. Out of 10 cards, ONLY DCU charged me.
>Maybe this isn't the norm, but it certainly
>isn't an isolated incident. DCU also doesn't hide the fact. I believe
>it's in the published fee schedule available at any branch office and
>it is in the ATM card literature.
DCU does publish the information.
- mark
|
540.19 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Apr 29 1992 14:11 | 3 |
| � I am surprised. Out of 10 cards, ONLY DCU charged me.
You have 10 ATM cards?
|
540.20 | | PROXY::HOPKINS | All one race - Human | Wed Apr 29 1992 14:17 | 3 |
| Any time I have called DCU for information that can't be given to just
anyone over the phone, they asked my badge #, SS #, and hire date.
|
540.21 | | AOSG::GILLETT | Suffering from Personal Name writer's block | Wed Apr 29 1992 15:00 | 24 |
| Someone (Macneal?) wrote that ATM cards aren't revenue generators for
financial institutions. I would disagree. I would not bank
at an institution that didn't provide ATM services, and I would
guess that there are many like me who feel the same way. I'm
hooked on the convenience of being able to get cash or deposit
checks 24 hours a day. Further, I hypothesize that ATM services
reduce overhead costs.
The $5.00 charge to replace a card, while not an unreasonable amount,
seems rather petty to me. Since the person who lost her card has
already been robben, or has lost a wallet, or had some other inconvenience
happen to them, it seems like adding insult to injury to slap on a $5.00
charge.
Theft by acquiring services, and denial of services harrasment are both
problems. Sending a new ATM card to someone based soley on claim of loss
and the provision or SSN and badge number seems a little free and easy.
On the other hand, turning off the service should be easy. I don't want
to have to remember my grandmother's first cousin's sister's oldest son's
wife's maiden name to get my ATM service shut down after being mugged.
Denial of services harrasment can be a major nuisance, but I claim less so
than being ripped off.
/chris
|
540.22 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Apr 29 1992 15:07 | 14 |
| �Someone (Macneal?) wrote that ATM cards aren't revenue generators for
�financial institutions.
It was me, and that's close to what I said. I said it wasn't a DIRECT
revenue generator like a credit card is (and even if you have a no
annual fee card that you pay off every month, the places you use it at
are charged a fee to accept it).
As to the replacement fee, perhaps DCU could apply it a little less
unilateraly. Theft would be a good reason to waive the fee. Losing it
in the couch cushions might be worth a fee (heck, I reported travelers
checks missing only to find them in "that spot where I'd make sure I
woulnd't lose them" the next day). Repeated instances of loss should
definitely incur a fee.
|
540.23 | | STAR::CANTOR | Dave Cantor | Wed Apr 29 1992 15:12 | 11 |
| re .9
> ... They should have issued a new PIN as well.
Yes, I told the person I spoke to that even though I didn't "lose" my
PIN with the card, it was acceptable to me to get a new PIN. She said
it wasn't necessary, and, though I can't recall her exact words, I
understood her to mean that they issue a new PIN if, and only if, the
old one was compromised.
Dave C.
|