Conference 7.286::dcu

    John, as far as I can tell you didn't miss the notice because I'm
    not sure there ever was one.  Sure would've been nice if they dropped
    a note in last month's statement telling us of the change.
    
    By the way, a teller here at BTO was also surprised by the change.
    
    Don

That's 1-800-DCU-TRYS?

    Sure surprised me when I tried to use it this weekend.  The internal
    number has changed also from 223-2943 to 223-6735.

    
    Gotta love the message you get now at 223-9943...
    
    "For your convenienve," you can now sift through two additional levels
    of menuing to get to the Easytouch service you were previously able to
    dial directly.
    

    re. .4
    
    Right, it's not that convenient to have to wade through a couple more
    menus.....I wonder whose bright idea it was to eliminate the direct
    dial number.  To me this was one of the more positive services that 
    DCU offered.  The service has certainly been diminished by eliminating
    direct dial access.  Just my opinion.
    
    Thomas
    

    
    I guess on the positive side have one less 800 number does save money..
    The first thing my wife said was, Boy they must be losing money hand
    over fist in order to do away with that...
    
    
    I don't know how expensive it is, but it definately was nice to just
    dial one easy number... The new number will take some getting used to
    with the ole fingers.. And I'm sure I'll dial the old one at least 
    a dozen times before the brain and the fingers start working together..
    You know us slow and dumb engineers...
    
    
    John
    

Regarding the DTN extensions into the DCU, keep in mind that these aren't
"free" calls. Ask your CC manager if you can take a gander at the monthly
phone bill detail for your extension some time - all calls you make from
your desk are charged to your cost center, and if PKO isn't local to you,
it's basically a long distance rate. The 800 calls are billed to the DCU
and I have no idea how they cover that, but at least they're free to your
CC.

-Jack

  I don't understand why DCU eliminated the separate Easy Touch number. They
will still need the same number of incoming phone lines to handle the demand,
or else the waits will get longer. Has anyone noticed a longer wait time since
this change occurred? If so, it could mean that the number of incoming lines
has been reduced.
  DCU might save a little in phone bills by having one number instead of two,
but I don't think it can make up for the incremental damage to their image.

>phone bill detail for your extension some time - all calls you make from
>your desk are charged to your cost center, and if PKO isn't local to you,
  
  Thanks for reminding us about this. Except for calls to certain 800 numbers,
all calls longer than 5 digits made from office phones are listed for your
extension on the cost center's monthly statement. It's easy to forget that 
business phones are different from home phones in this (and other) respects.

Maybe the new BoD can look into this?  If it costs $2,000 a month for that extra
line, I can understand the move.

    Disclaimer: I haven't tried EasyTouch since the number changed ...

    Seems to me there is positive way to view this change - we now have one
    stop shopping.  Namely, there is only one number to remember. This
    seems like goodness to me.  I only call EasyTouch a few times a year,
    so a couple of extra menu picks to get to it are not a big hassle.  For
    frequent users, if this is a normal touchtone setup I presume you can
    type your choices without waiting to hear the prompts so it shouldn't
    take a lot longer than before.

	Paul

    For those who are in the Maynard calling area you can reach
    easy touch by dialing 508-493-6735 and then pushing touch tone
    2.

    re: .4 (wading thru two extra menu levels)
    
    Try dialing the 800-number (800-328-8797) and press '2' (touch-tone
    phone) immediately when the "Welcome to DCU..." is heard.  You will be
    connected directly to Easy-Touch without having to listen to any more
    menu items.  The need to press one additional number doesn't really get
    me too upset.
    
    Dick.

	I was bothered at not being told about this before hand. The change
	itself though is a good idea. Now I only have one number to remember
	for both EASYTOUCH (which I use a lot) and calling the main office
	(which I don't do often and so usually had to look up). One extra
	key to hit is, for me, a small price to pay for having everything at
	one number.

			Alfred 

    I used the new number last night.  (I'm happy that dialing the old
    number provides a message saying that calls are being handled by the
    new one. 8^)
    
    After listening to the announcement, I pressed "2" to reach Easy Touch. 
    There was no immediate response, so I pressed "#", figuring the menu
    might expect it as Easy Touch does.  WRONG!  The next sound I heard was
    a dial tone.
    
    When I called back, selecting "2" (only) ultimately connected me with
    the Easy Touch drone.

    re: -1
    
    So, you didn't follow instructions, and it didn't work; but, when you
    did follow instructions, it did work.
    
    I can see why you were surprised.  8-).

    The DCU has also changed its 800 number the new number is

              1-800-DCU-8798

    Just for laughs one of the people in our office tried to spell out the
    last four digits.  What we got was

              1-800-DCU-TRYS

    Guess there is a mind change going on. 8>))

    

    Re: .-1
    
    Very nice!  I choose to believe it was intentional.

re .16:

Isn't that 1-800-DCU-8797 (S=7, and that's what I wrote down in my book from
the basenote)

Jill

    Re -.1:

    Your right, is is 1-800-DCU-8797 (1-800-DCU-TRYS). Fingers shifed on
    the lrunpsrd (keyboard) again 8>).
    

    Jim

Huh.

Didn't I mention "1-800-DCU-TRYS" back in reply .2?

(Sometimes, I feel like I'm talking to myself.  Alright, I bore me, too.)

    re .20
    
    Yeah, I thought I was the only one who saw this as a repeat.  But, I
    figured since it's tv repeat time, that notes might also be in that
    mode too.
    
    Don

I spoke to Chuck about the 800 number. He said that the elimination of the
other 800 number was not primarily done to reduce costs but of course having
one line is cheaper. They figured it would be easier to administer and
monitor usage (they have 14 people there to handle the calls coming in
on the line) as well as be easier for customers to only remember one
number (as some of you folks observed). You're right, it could have been
communicated better. Also, as somebody noted, you can eliminate the
greeting message at any time by hitting "2" and it acts just like the
old number did.

RE: 530.22 (Kinzelman)

>I spoke to Chuck about the 800 number. He said that the elimination of the
>other 800 number was not primarily done to reduce costs but of course having


How did you get past Mary so that you could talk to Chuck?  :-)  I remember when
you and others had to catch him in his car!  :-)

	- mark

    	:-)

    
    RE: .23
    
    The times they are a changin'...  (can't recall the artist)
    
    I believe for the most part people at DCU truly welcome the change 
    of watch and the changes it will bring.  If there ever was a win-win
    situation, I think this is it.
    

�How did you get past Mary so that you could talk to Chuck?  :-)  I remember when
�you and others had to catch him in his car!  :-)
    
    Paul is on the BoD now, and not just a witchhunter.

    re. 25
    
    	... I would expect that a rable rouser like you, Phil, would know
    such things...
    
    	It was Bob Dylan, from before he joined the religion of the month
    club.
    
    	*sigh*
    
    	Peter

    
.25>  The times they are a changin'...  (can't recall the artist)
    
    This is from the leader of our revolution??
    
    We should have given him the protest song trivia quiz before the
    election was over. Too late, now...
    
    Hey, Phil -- are you over 30?
    

    
    I thought it was Dylan but I didn't want to take a chance and spread any
    mis-information...  8-)
    
    Yes, I'm over 30.  Which explains the purging of my 60's memory.
    Lately there's just too much to remember and some things just get
    rolled out.  But I *CAN* quote DCU trivia with the best of 'em.
    

    Did everyone that gets a DEC paycheck have one of those DCU "here's our
    new phone number" cards stapled to them?  Our checks in LKG did, and
    when I asked our secretary, she said they came from payroll that way. 
    
    As it turns out, I also received my monthly DCU statement last night in
    the mail, and it too had the little card inserted.
    
    So the real question is, why is DEC spending money distributing the
    cards when DCU planned to do it all along?  Why does DEC really care to
    tell people what DCU's phone numbers are in any case?  
    
    /kevin

Well, my check gets hand delivered.  I was asked "are you a DCU member?", and
when I answered in the affirmative, I got handed a card.

Then I got another when I opened my mail that evening (DCU statement).

But, that's a good question.

    
    (perhaps the number of people who believe that DCU is "an important
    employee benefit" is growing?)
    

    I have a question:
    
    Who objects to DEC having a close relationship with DCU so long as DEC
    does not govern it? There's nothing wrong with DEC passing out the
    cards so long as DEC doesn't go running up bills to pay for the CU. 
   
    Regardless of whether DCU is an employee benefit or not, it is a
    benefit to DEC employees and their families. 

re 33:

I don't think anyone objects to cooperation.  However, several of us were
found to be at fault for using Digital resources to spread information about 
an entirely independent company, namely, the DCU.  That was before Sims'
letter calling the DCU "an important employee benefit".  We argued on that
very basis that we were justified in our actions, but that was then (and in 
my case, is still now) apparently not considered important by personnel. (*)

So, there's a natural human tendency to make a noise about cases like this, 
where DEC resources are seemingly being used to support the DCU.  It's not
that I object to DEC doing this -- it's that I object to the fact that a 
different standard was apparently used toward my own activities in support
of the DCU.  And yes, I consider all of my work to help bring some rather
uncomfortable facts about the DCU into the open as work in support of the DCU.  

	Enjoy,
	Larry

(*)  Don't worry, nothing serious happened to any of us as a result of this.  
However, I found the whole experience to be excessively unpleasant and quite 
wounding to my sense of Digital as a place where "the right thing" happens.  

1.  As Larry has said, DEC has used DCU as an "valuable employee benefit"
    when that suits them, and "DCU is a separate corporate institution"
    when *that* has suited them.

    While these two terms are no opposites, it has often been explained
    that one does not imply the other.  DEC should decide what the
    relationship is, and then stick with the definition.  


2.  I get a little concerned over using DEC resources to finance DCU's
    information campaign.  While it only takes someone a few extra minutes
    for a secretary to photocopy (assumption alert!) something and pass it
    out, that time adds up when you consider the whole corporation.  Given
    the current business climate, and that major flood 'o red ink (what was
    the final damage, $290,000,000?) I get a little concerned over DEC paying
    for a lot of stuff, and especially subsidizing an essentially healthy
    corporation (DCU).  And yes, for those of you warming up the flame 
    throwers, my concern extends to all that stuff that DEC pays for - 
    including things that I like.

Speaking of which, I better get back to work!
./chris
    

    >>  Did everyone that gets a DEC paycheck have one of those DCU "here's
    our new phone number"
    
    No.  I work in Tewksbury and I picked up the checks for our group this
    week (the person who normally picks them up was out).  I never saw
    these cards.  I did get one with my DCU statement last week.

I spoke to Mary Madden today about the 800 number. The new system with the
single 800 number costs more than the old system with the multiple numbers.
My understanding from her was that the 800 number was just for touchtone
access. Anything else and you had to pay for the call by dialing direct.

So one of the benefits
of the new system was to better serve members not local to this area by
allowing them to call toll free and talk to a real person. Another benefit
of the system is they have a statistics gathering system hooked up that
keeps track of what kinds of calls are made, from where, peak call quantity,
how long people have to wait for an operator, etc.

The cost is $1K/month/line and they have two trunk(?) lines. The cost is
approximately a flat 9cents per minute from anywhere in the country. The
"approximately" is because the cost depends on the telephone network path
which the caller and DCU has no control over.

So, the cost of the current system is more than the previous system, but
it does *lots* more things.

I asked her to look into giving the last 5 checks in *reverse* order. She
doesn't think it's a big software change and will look at it.

I also asked for being able to key in a particular check number and find
out if it's cleared or not which to me seems like a valuable feature.
We agreed that this is only necessary for checks that are since the
last statement. She will evaluate the use of the line and get back to
me with an opinion about doing that. I pointed out that
if you have a machine do it, you eliminate the need to tie up a real
person to do the same thing. She will get back to me in awhile.

She did express a concern that people actually tie up the 800 line at lots
of cost to DCU playing with the touchtone. That's why they limit the
amount of time and info you can get that way. I can't conceive of anybody
actually spending their time sitting there for a half an hour punching
things to the touchtone system but she assures me that it happens and
costs them a good bit of money. Perhaps I'll get a look at the
statistics sometime when I'm in there.

    Ahh, Paul, you don't suffer withdrawal symptoms when there is not a
    keypad under your fingertips.  Some people do, and they will explore
    *all* the paths of any system to which they have access.
    
    twe

Well, I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that I haven't ever tried the
touchtone service. I should rectify that shortly to see what it's like.

How about if the touchtone service is free for the first 5 min, then beyond
that charge some nominal amount?

Oh yes, if you use a dtn, it costs DCU nothing.

    Well, one problem with the system is that if you call the 800 number
    and hit "2", you can get a busy signal. I had to call back 4 times to
    finally get through. This is a local PBX problem and should be fixed.
    You should make sure that a line is always free for the 800 number to
    transfer to. 
    
    Personally, I want to get in and out. I always type ahead. I think it
    would be very useful if you sent out a new wallet card with
    instructions since the system has changed. I still have the card from
    the old system. Also, you should note ON THE CARD that you can type
    ahead and this reduces DCU costs which allows DCU to pay higher
    interest rates because of less expense.

.40 raises an issue for, if not abuse, at least needless expense:

It costs money to receive a call on an 800 number.  That's what 800 numbers are
all about.  If the thing receiving the call can't process the request (due in
.40's case to the line being busy), then the caller is just going to try a few
more times, each time running up DCU's phone bill, until they can get through.

Under the old system, if the line was busy, it didn't cost DCU anything, because
the person was dialing it directly.

As a matter of fact, way back long ago, if you called the DCU "easytouch" number,
and the system was down, it'd answer the phone and say the system was down,
thus costing DCU money.  Later on, it was changed to not answer the line if it
was down, and more recently, I guess it started answering and not saying anything
again.

It seems like me nickeling and diming the process here, but there's no point in
answering the phone if you can't process the call.  For the customer, to call
1-800-DCU-TRYS, only to have to dial "2", and THEN get a busy signal, we've just
added an extra digit of aggrivation, and arguably more time between picking the
phone up and getting the busy signal.  For DCU's part, we have to pay for that
customer trying over and over to get a line, which ultimately costs DCU more
money.

I don't know how to "fix" this problem while keeping the current scheme intact,
and I'm not really suggesting dropping back to the older system, but I just 
don't see how anyone really wins in this scenario.

Part of the problem is that you must answer the phone before you find out
whether the user wants touchtone or livewear to process the request. Only
then can you decide whether the desired service is busy. Two separate
numbers would help this problem, but then you have 2 numbers to know.

    two numbers were not a problem in the past.  Why did we create one?
    whats the REAL problem being solved.
    
    
    also of concern is the large volumn of changes comeing,  must indicate
    someone has little to do then think of the dumb things such as this
    800 number change.   SLOW DOWN!

Am I correct in saying that the ONLY service available after, say a specific
time (8:00 PM and weekends), is Easytouch?  If so, why not change it so that
BETWEEN certain hours it will AUTOMATICALLY switch to Easytouch - no need to
press '2'.  It would certainly save having to push '2' when Easytouch IS the
only service available!

    re: .42 I disagree. Since EASYTOUCH should be on a PBX, make sure there
    are the same amount of EASYTOUCH PBX lines as there are 800 lines +
    number of DTN/direct dial lines. 

Re: .45 - I don't understand, please elaborate

Re: switching direct to touchtone after hours - that would mean that if
somebody were working late or weekends, they could not receive calls. Also,
it may be convenient for somebody to call a DCU employee's number knowing
they are not there for the purpose of leaving a voice mail message.

    Sorry about being obtuse. Say DCU has 5 800 lines, 5 DTN trunks & 5
    outside direct dial trunks. Then say that the their are only 5 touch
    tone lines for touch tone account access. If all 5 lines are busy from
    calls originating from the main number, the sixth caller will get his
    called answered, hit a "2" and transfer to the touch tone service.
    Since this is a simple switch-hook transfer, they might get a busy
    signal because all 5 touch tone lines are being used.
    
    Since this happened to me, it means there aren't enough touch tone
    lines behind all the incoming trunks. If you wanted to insure that 15
    callers calling the hypothetical 15 trunks above, there MUST be 15
    extensions available for the trunks to transfer calls to and not get a
    busy signal. I realize that this may not be cost effective, but given
    my experience you need at least 1 more line...

I don't know, but it seems that handling extra touchtone calls, once they
come in, should be a small matter of software. They do have extensive
performance monitoring equipment to find out what queues fill up when so
they can adjust parameters to reduce wait time. I think it's the sort of
thing that will work itself out as they change the knobs from the results
they get from their monitoring equipment.

RE: Note 530.39 by ESBLAB::KINZELMAN 

>Well, I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that I haven't ever tried the
>touchtone service. I should rectify that shortly to see what it's like.

>How about if the touchtone service is free for the first 5 min, then beyond
>that charge some nominal amount?

>Oh yes, if you use a dtn, it costs DCU nothing.

I know USAA and AFBA have 800 hundred numbers and do not charge anything for
their use.  They feel they save money and have happier customers by doing this.

My feeling is that there should not be a charge.  Yes there will be a few people
who abuse it, but that will hopefully be limited and in the end we will help
the remote members and local members.

	- mark