Conference 7.286::dcu

   Would you  suggest  we  outline your findings explicitly, or would it be
   sufficient  for  us  to  refer to your letter and request they conduct a
   formal  investigation  concerning  what  you've  found and refer to your
   letter by your name?

   Also, many  DCU  members have spouses that are not DEC employees.  Since
   we  are all trying to be very proper about this, perhaps it'd be good to
   give  explicit  permission in .0 to print and give to interested parties
   that  are  not  DEC  employees  if  that  is OK with you.  For instance,
   legally  a  DEC  employee  DCU  member  would  not be able to share your
   information  with  his/her  spouse  if  the  spouse  were not also a DEC
   employee  because  it's  against  company  policy  for notes files to go
   outside of DEC.

       May I suggest that we hold off on the letters until the BOD decides
    when the special meeting will be held. This could be more fuel for the
    fire so to speak. I'll send mine the end of the month. If the
    meetingdate hasn't been posted by then, I'll certainly add that to the
    letter.
                                        Denny

    
    RE: .0
    
    	Should read:	National Credit Union Administration
    
    RE: .1
    
    	My permission to give copies to ANY DCU member is granted.  You
    should write your own complaints.  The NCUA will respond to each of
    them.
    
    RE: .2
    
    	I suggest that you do NOT wait.  These complaints will take time to
    to file, DCU to respond to, and the NCUA to investigate (if they
    determine to do so).  If you are going to write, do so ASAP.  You can
    always write a new complaint for any new topic.
    

    Send a letter to the NCUA and ask for the manual 'Charter and Field and
    Membership Manual'.  This contains information about how a credit union
    should act and respond.
    
    In calling and talking to the NCUA people they said we should not have
    ANY problem getting access to the auditors reports...
    
    	- mark
    

    
    I have just been told by Mary Madden that ALL requests for information
    from DCU must be made in writing to the headquarters.  All requests must
    contain a "business reason" why the information is being requested.  The
    requests will then "be reviewed".  She could not tell me who they would
    be reviewed by or tell me how long it would take to respond to the
    these requests.  If they are reviewed by the BoD and they meet once a
    month, then we can expect a very long turnaround.
    
    Our BoD which claimed it was going to be open and forthright with its
    members has now gone to the other extreme.  Not that I am surprised. 
    What they have said and what they have done have almost always been two
    different things.
    
    Welcome to DCU.  Give us your money.  Just don't ask us any questions
    on what we do with it.  Don't ask us what the election results were and
    how many ballots were rejected.  Seems they've taken the "we'll
    disclose everything we are legally required to do" tact.  Again, I urge
    all that care about this "credit union" to write and call the NCUA to
    register complaints.
    

    Phil, can you ask Mary to put the new "policy" regarding requests for
    information in writing? It could be helpful to be able to document it.
    
    Jim

    
    RE: .6
    
>    Phil, can you ask Mary to put the new "policy" regarding requests for
>    information in writing? It could be helpful to be able to document it.
    
    You're going to love this.  I did ask her to send me a written copy of
    this new DCU policy detailing the process.  She said I had to send her
    a written request for this information.  There may not be a broom big
    enough to sweep DCU clean of this wonderful attitude.  And this has
    come THE DAY AFTER a BoD meeting.  This is THEIR policy for dealing
    with members.  They must be held DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the
    implementation of this "policy".  Is this group of people living in the
    1990's?  Sounds more like vintage Soviet Union, circa 1945.
    
    Makes one REALLY wonder about the information they are trying so
    desperately to control.  Would the release of the actual information be
    more damaging than the impression that they are denying access to it?
    If that is the case, then we all need to worry.  Is this a place we all
    want to entrust our money to???
    
    Welcome to the new age of DCU openness...
    
    
    

  Sounds like DCU-gate...

        I'd also suggest that you ask for the minutes of last nights
        meeting (in writing of course). Lets find out WHO is doing WHAT to
        WHOM. Wait a minute, we already know to whom it's being done.
        
        I got a voicemail message from Mary Madden on 9/19 in response to
        my leter to mark Steinkrauss of 8/17 (a 5 week delay). I've called
        her back several times to see what she has to say, but never get
        anything but her voicemail. I've left at least 4-6 messages there.

    
    	Incredible.  Is the real information really _that_ bad?  At the
    risk of massively over-trivializing this, it reminds me of video games
    where the closer to you get to "the treasure", the harder the game
    becomes.  Perhaps this is a sign, Phil, that you're getting close to
    something big?
    
    	I'm glad I switched out of DCU and can watch this one unfold from
    the sidelines.
    
    							-c

    
    RE: .10
    
    It's really strange that all this started when I asked for election
    results, when BoD members resigned, when new ones came on board, when
    they ran.  Funny though, they couldn't find the one year in which I
    believe I discovered something wrong with the ballot.  But I wanted to
    confirm and investigate before jumping to conclusions.  Wonder what's
    so confidential about election results???  Could there have been a
    problem that year?  Could a large number of ballots been rejected
    because people followed the instructions on the ballot?  These are very
    simple questions that they already had the answers to in a complete
    report by the independent auditors.
    
    Burning questions they should answer but hey, this is the Soviet
    Credit Union comrades.  Guess we should all just shutup and thank them
    for all the complete and accurate information they given us in the
    past.  How dare we ask for unfiltered information to make an informed
    decision!  But we're probably all too stupid and we'll misinterpret the
    numbers and think such stupid things like net income DROPPED in 1990
    87% instead of seeing we are on target with improved financial performance.
    
    The more they hide, the closer we should all look...
    

    Now, this is really getting stupid!  Who on earth is going to have a
    "business reason" to see the audit reports aside from ... an auditor!
    I suppose conducting your business at DCU as a shareholder of this
    pristine institution is not "business reason" enough ...  Whadya bet
    they've already written this into the new bylaws ...  ooops, sorry,
    they're in the form of "notes" to the bylaws, so you have to have a
    "business reason" for seeing them.  Of course, to discover this, you
    have to have a "business reason" for seeing the notes to the bylaws,
    which requires that you have a "business reason" ...  This is baloney.
    Hmmm.  I wonder if I should ask President Chuck about this when he has
    the site meetings in October.  Are these going to be video taped?  ;^)
    
    Steve

    
    Quite simply our "business reason" as owners of this fine institution
    give us the RIGHT to participate in the credit union.  As owners, we 
    also have an obligation to make sure the credit union is being run
    according to the Bylaws and that our rights of participation are not
    being trampled.  If the Bylaws are being violated, the charter may be
    REVOKED by law.  So we ALL have an interest in making sure they are
    adhered to.
    
    Gee, what's the matter?  Don't you all trust our BoD to follow the
    Bylaws?  Trust them, trust them.  They know what they're doing.  We're
    a bunch of whining yahoos with nothing better to do than cause them
    grief.  We are just a few whiners, well maybe tens (informal meeting
    attendees), OK maybe hundreds (noters).  Or are we THOUSANDS (signed
    petitions)?
    
    Book a LARGE facility for the special meeting DCU.  Your little lunch
    room won't cut it.

1)  To attempt a soothing word:  careful here, folks.  Words like "whiners"
    and "yahoos" in our correspondence, either among ourselves or to DCU
    personnel, are emotionally loaded and content-free.  The one thing we do
    not want to do now is project an appearance of "losing it" when the going
    gets rough.

2)  The going may get rough.  The recent heightening of restrictions on
    access to information, together with procedures which clearly make it
    documentable who requests and/or gets what information, have the
    earmarks (IN MY OPINION) of:

        a)  signalling that the board has something to lose should the
            records become public;

        b)  being the kind of thing a lawyer would recommend to clients
            he knows cannot stand the light of day.

    IN MY OPINION.  That's how this SOUNDS to me.  You asked for my opinion
    as a typical DCU member, right?


3)  This one DCU member is no longer inclined to be the least bit flexible.
    If the special meeting (which I _will_ attend) fails to remove the
    current board AND to secure a new audit, I'm gone.  No enterprise which
    engenders this low an opinion in its members and owners is a place where
    my money is going to live.


One further opinion:  the recent "calm" ill serves the looming need for
communication, especially with those DCU owners who do not participate in
NOTES conferences.  Everyone who DOES participate should help to spread the
word;  in addition, I'm afraid that a MAIL campaign is indicated, although I
know that tactic has been resisted up until now.

(Somebody!  Please send me a chain letter!)

    Phil, may I make a suggestion? Send Mary Madden a letter via
    *registered* mail detailing the information you are requesting,
    and your business reasons for doing so (which are well stated
    in .13). This will establish a record of the request, and
    evidence of when it was received by the credit union. If they
    don't reply at all or reply insufficiently, it could then be used
    as documentation of failure to supply required information.
    
    Jim

    
    RE: .14
    
    Bill, my use of the words "whining yahoos" is MY interpretation of the
    BoD's characterization of the people who write in this file (especially
    me).  "whiners" is their word and they did use it at one of the
    informal discussions.  "yahoos" is my word describing what I percieve
    to be their perception of our capabilities with regards to seeing what is
    going on with DCU.  Real information need not be provided by them
    because we wouldn't be able to understand it anyways.  All we really
    need to read is the beautiful write-up in the last annual report to
    know how well off we truly are.  I can guarantee you I have not lost
    anything.  Quite to the contrary, DCU has instilled MORE determination
    than ever to find out what has been going on at OUR credit union for
    the last 7 years.
    
    
    RE: .15
    
    Not only is your suggestion good for me but for ALL who communicate
    with YOUR credit union.  Now not only will you have to pay more to
    belong to DCU, you'll also pay when you want information from YOUR
    credit union. (other than the strained "information" that they deem fit
    for your consumption)
    
    

re .15

  And send a copy (registered) to NCUA...

    re. 17
    
    Right...good suggestion - I was thinking afterwards that registered
    mail, while establishing evidence of *some sort* of communication, 
    doesn't prove the actual *content* of that communication. A copy to
    the NCUA will establish a record of any requests with the regulating
    agency, in case they should get "lost" or tabled or whatever by DCU.
    
    
    

    
    RE: sending copies
    
    Might I also suggest again that you also copy your respective Senators
    and congressmen.  I have been told they are considering changes in the
    way the NCUA functions given everything that has been going on in the
    financial community lately.  Your letters may make a difference towards
    that end.
    
    Currently, the NCUA is funded by the respective credit unions which it
    oversees, not by tax dollars.  I'm not familiar with everything being
    considered though.  My nightly reading hasn't reached the federal
    legislative agenda yet... (groan)

       Somewhere, I think in this note, someone made the comment that this
    new policy of requiring requests 'in writing' sounded like it came from
    a lawyer. I sure would be curious as to whether the BoD is getting
    legal advise regarding the upcoming meeting to oust them. If they are
    it would seem to me highly inappropriate if the members (us) are paying
    for this advise. This is something that I think is going to require
    some sort of audit after this is all over with, no matter how it is
    resolved in the end.
                                          Denny

   This policy is new as of 9/25/91.  I had a spur-of-the-moment meeting on
   9/20/91 with Chuck Cockburn with no problem.  He apologize for not being
   able  to  give out info and said that a policy of what he could give out
   would  be  worked  out  at  the BoD meeting scheduled for the evening of
   9/24/91.   On  9/25/91 I called Chuck Cockburn and he wouldn't return my
   phone call.  I met him informally on 9/26/91 and he would barely talk to
   me.   He  said  this was the new policy, nobody could say anything about
   anything.   All  non-routine  requests must go thru the "communications"
   department. Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard of one. 8*)

   I think  they are trying to wear us out figuring that we'll just give up
   at  some  point.   I believe they underestimate us.  I just today sent a
   registered, return receipt requested information request for a number of
   things,  one of which is to find out if they even acknowledge receipt of
   the  special  meeting  petition  (I  personally watched PG plop the 1200
   petitions  into  Chuck  Cockburn's  hands  on  9/17/91) .  If anybody is
   interested, I'll post it here.

    
    >>If anybody is interested, I'll post it here.
    
    Color me interested... (I'm about to do much the same thing.)
    

   I mailed  this  today  by  registered mail, return receipt requested.  I
   felt embarrassed going to the Maynard post office to ask them to deliver
   a piece of mail to an address in Maynard.  I can't believe we have to do
   this.


						26-SEP-1991

	Mary Madden
	Digital Credit Union
	PO Box 130
	141 Parker St
	Maynard MA 01754

	Dear Ms. Madden:

	This memo  contains  questions  and  requests for information.
	Please  do not wait for all of the information to be available
	before responding to anything.  As soon as you have a piece of
	information,  please  send it to me or call dtn 223-2605 and I
	will pick it up.

	To make   it  easier  for  you  to  reply,  please  check  the
	appropriate  box and return this letter, rather than writing a
	whole new memo.

	Please answer the following question:

	1. When did DCU receive the petition for the special meeting?
		 ____
		/___/ DCU DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT
		 ____
		/___/ DCU RECEIVED THE PETITION ON __/__/__ date

	2. When did DCU validate the petition signatures?
		 ____
		/___/ DCU DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT
		 ____
		/___/ DCU HAS NOT VALIDATED THE REQUIRED SIGNATURES
		 ____
		/___/ DCU VALIDATED THE REQUIRED SIGNATURES ON __/__/__

	3.  Is  DCU  aware  of  the  NCUA  interpretation of the bylaw
	requirement  for  the  special  meeting?  The bylaws state the
	meeting "must be called" within 30 days of the petition.  NCUA
	interprets  this  requirement  as  "must be held" not "must be
	scheduled".
		 ____
		/___/ DCU IS AWARE OF NCUA'S INTERPRETATION
		 ____
		/___/ DCU IS NOT AWARE OF NCUA'S INTERPRETATION
		





	Please forward to me copies of the following:

	1.  Full financial reports from 1985-1990, including auditor's
	statement and auditor's notes.
		 ____
		/___/ REQUEST DENIED, REASON: _____________________
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR DECISION BY __/__/__ date
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFORMATION BY __/__/__ date

	2.  Auditor's report for last 4 elections (88-91).
		 ____
		/___/ REQUEST DENIED, REASON: _____________________
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR DECISION BY __/__/__ date
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFORMATION BY __/__/__ date

	3.  Minutes  of  BoD  meetings  where participation loans were
	discussed  or  reviewed  and  at  which  Richard  Mangone  was
	present.
		 ____
		/___/ REQUEST DENIED, REASON: _____________________
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR DECISION BY __/__/__ date
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFORMATION BY __/__/__ date

	4. Copies of the conditions of bonding of the president.
		 ____
		/___/ REQUEST DENIED, REASON: _____________________
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR DECISION BY __/__/__ date
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFORMATION BY __/__/__ date

	5. Copies of the conditions of bonding of the Board of Directors.
		 ____
		/___/ REQUEST DENIED, REASON: _____________________
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR DECISION BY __/__/__ date
		 ____
		/___/ YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFORMATION BY __/__/__ date


					Sincerely,



					Paul Kinzelman
					46 Priest St
					Hudson, MA 01749-1744

   If this  doesn't  get  an acceptable response, the next step is the NCUA
   and our senators and congressmen.

    I intend to ask each and every one of these questions of Chuck when he
    appears at LKG on October 2nd.
    
    What do you bet that the next thing the board will do is petition
    Digital to close down this notesfile so prevent the membership from
    communicating with each other.
    
    By the way does anybody else consider that the current behaviour of the
    board is very akin to an injured animal backed into a corner.
    
    Dave

        My letter goes out tomorrow, if I finish LaTeXing it tonight.
        While the spirit is similar to the previous one, I've asked
        several very pointed questions that have yet to be answered
        anywhere. I'll post the .TEX file here, the .PS would waste too
        much space.

    Phil,
    
    It would make more sense to have one person to draft the letter and
    then circulate it around the facilities and let everybody sign it.
    This is suggestion. This will save lots of time. Let me know how do
    you feel.
    
    Bharat

   I think  it'd  mean  more if the various powers that be (NCUA, senators,
   etc.) get lots of mail, each different.  It doesn't take much effort for
   somebody to sign a list.  But writing a letter takes time.  For hundreds
   of  people  to  each  take  the  effort to compose a letter is much more
   impressive  than  if everybody just runs off a letter and mails it in or
   signs a list. Best to post the NCUA address.

    I think the best approach is a hybrid of these proposals.  That is,
    provide a standard letter with complaints in text format that people
    can extract, sign and send in.  That way, they can hack it to taste
    and make it different.
    
    Steve

    re: .29 (standard letter for complaints)
    
    I know that the "sign the form letter" approach to lobbying does not
    carry as much weight with Congressmen as a group of different letters
    which all address the same point.  A bunch of form letters is
    frequently viewed as just another type of petition -- essentially, a
    low-effort campaign.
    
    Therefore, I'd suggest that everyone write his or her own letter and 
    send it.  It will probably have a _LOT_ more impact with almost any
    group (not just Congressmen).
    
    FWIW
    
    -- Russ

       I received a reply from the NCUA on Saturdday. What it boiled down
    to was that they are aware of the Special meeting being called. They
    say it will be held within the 30 days and that if I am not satisfied
    with the outcome of the meeting I should feel free to contact them
    again. They made no mention of my complaints or questions. I guess they
    seem to think the Special Meeting will straighten everything out.
    So this does confirm that the NCUA reads the bylaws in a way thet the
    meeting must be HELP by Oct. 17th.
       The BOD obviously wasted a golden oppurtunity to save some money
     by not including a meeting date in the latest monthly ststement.
    This only proves they don't care a bit about saving money.
    Now they'll have to spend money on postage AGAIN to infornm all members.
                                        Denny

>        The BOD obviously wasted a golden oppurtunity to save some money
>      by not including a meeting date in the latest monthly ststement.
>     This only proves they don't care a bit about saving money.
>     Now they'll have to spend money on postage AGAIN to infornm all members.

That's not the case if the DCU considers the annual meeting notification
as statement of meeting date.  

        After a week of playing telephone tag, I spoke with Mary Madden
        last week. This was in response to my letter to Mark Steinkrauss
        from 6 weeks earlier. She stated that they must send the special
        notice seperately from the monthly statements, and that it would
        be sent in time for the meeting to be held within thew 30 day
        window.

    
    Burying the notice in the monthly statements would not have been in
    everybody's best interest.  People tend to ignore statement stuffers. 
    Sometimes, you just have to spend a few dollars more to do something
    the right way.
    

    					September 30, 1991

Mary Madden 
Digital Employees Federal Credit Union 
PO Box 130 
141 Parker St 
Maynard MA 01754

Dear Ms. Madden: 

As per the new Digital Employees Federal Credit Union (DCU) policy
enacted at the September 1991 board meeting, this is a written
request for information about the manner in which the DCU has been
run for the past several years. 

My "business reason" for needing this information is two-fold:
First, given the current state of the banking industry, I need this
information to determine if my money is safe. Second, I need this
information to determine if I should pursue any individual or group
legal action against those individuals who may have improperly
managed the DCU over the past few years. 

As a member and owner of the DCU, I have a right to this information
by law. It is not necessary for me to satisfy any "business reason"
to access this information. If, for any reason, you think it
necessary to deny answers to any of these questions, please state in
writing what your business reasons are for denying the information.
I will then forward them to the NCUA for further action. 

1) Please send me the formal policy put into effect at the September
1991 board meeting that requires all requests such as this to be in
writing. 

2) Please send me written verification of the number of petitions to
call a special meeting that were received on or about September
17th, 1991. Please indicate how many of these petitions were valid,
and how many were rejected. 

3) Please send me the date and time of the special meeting. As you
may know, the NCUA requires that this meeting be held, not just
scheduled, by October 17th, 1991. They also require that all DCU
members be notified of the date of this meeting at least one week
prior to the meeting date. 

4) Please send me minutes of the September 1991 Board of Directors
meeting where presumably all of the above items were discussed. 

5) Please tell me when the DCU first retained Jim Rice, whom he is
representing, and what matters have been assigned to him. If the DCU
has any other lawyers on staff or retainer, please give me their
names and the same information for each of them. 

6) Please send me the monthly DCU statement of condition reports for
all of 1990 and 1991. 

7) Please send me a list of any other policies, rules, or
regulations which the DCU has adopted for all of 1990 or 1991. 

8) Please send me a table of the number of active accounts, number
of checking accounts closed, number of savings accounts closed, and
number of other accounts closed for each month of 1991 up to and
including September. 

9) Please send me copies of the independent auditors reports for all
of the DCU elections from 1985 thru the present. Specifically, I
need the number of ballots mailed, number of ballots received,
number of ballots rejected (broken down by reason for rejection and
number in each category), number of valid ballots counted, and vote
totals for each candidate who received any votes. Please include any
write-in votes cast as well as those names that were on the ballots.

10) Please send me copies of the complete DCU auditors financial
reports for the years 1985 to present. be sure to include all of the
auditors notes that are not included in the statements sent to
members, and the statement from the auditor that the reports are
complete and represent a true summary of the condition of the DCU. 

11) Please send me a list of amendments made to the DCU charter by
the Board of Directors from 1985 to present. Include both the
original and changed wording. You may exclude any changes that were
submitted to the entire membership for a vote of approval. 

12) Please tell me if any current or former member of the Board of
Directors of the DCU or any person currently or formerly employed by
the DCU has any loan from the DCU which would not be available to
the general membership (e.g. car loan, first mortgage, student loan,
etc.). I do NOT want confidential specifics of any loan that any of
these persons may have, just a statement that there are no such
loans, or a statement listing the specific individuals that have
such loans. 

13) Please tell me if there are any other loans, investments, or
other DCU funds that are anywhere other than in loans to DCU "member
loans, ... government securities, and federal insured banks." 

Thank you very much for your open, honest communication. 

    Yours truly, 

    		Robert G. Kaplow

cc:	National Credit Union Administration 
	DCU.NOTE 

        

        October 7, 1991			CONFIDENTIAL
        
        ...
        
        Dear Mr. Kaplow:
        
        Reference is made to your inquiry of September 30, 1991, which was
        received on October 3, 1991. While DCU is and remains a strong and
        viable financial institution, your first business reason can be
        answered entirely by stating that your deposits are insured to
        100,000 bu the NCUA, an agency of the Federal Government. With
        respect to the second stated business reason, all appropriate
        legal actions have been or are in the process of being taken
        against those responsible for losses suffered by the credit union.
        Nevertheless, your request is being handled as one for the
        information pertaining to the second stated reason. Our response
        is numbered to correspond to your request:
        
        1. Enclosed is a copy of our Information Protection Policy.
        
        2. The credit union reviewed 289 petition signatures. Of this
        review, 259 were validated, 1 was not a valid member, 1 was not a
        valid badge number and 22 did not mathc the signatures on file.
        Since only 200 signatures were required for the call of the
        meeting, no further petitions were validated.
        
        3.  You will receive a Notice of date and time of the special
        meeting in accordance with our Bylaws.
        
        4. The Minutes, once approved, will be available in accordance
        with our information protection policy.
        
        5. The information requested is denied, except that all attorneys
        hired by the credit union represent the credit union. The
        information bears no relation to your stated business.
        
        6. The statements of financial condition for 1990 and 1991 will be
        provided within 15 business days of receipt of your check for
        $31.00 which covers an estimated 1 hour of staff time and 24 pages
        at $.25 per page.
        
        7. This information will not be provided as it does not relate to
        your stated business reason in that it is overly broad.
        
        8. The information bears no relation to your stated business
        reason and is denied.
        
        9. This information will not be provided as it bears no relation
        to your stated business reason.
        
        10. This information will be provoded within 15 business days of
        receipt of your check in the sum of $75.00 which covers an
        estimated 2 hours of staff time and 100 pages at $.25 per page
        
        11.  this information will be provided within 15 business days of
        receipt of your check for $26.25 which covers an estimated 1 hour
        of staff time and 5 pages at $.25 per page. You may wish to note
        the the current charter is available for inspection during
        business hours at all our offices of the credit union.
        
        12. No current of (sic) former board member or employee has been
        granted lonas on terms more favorable than available to the
        general membership.
        
        13. This request must be restated as I am unable to evaluate it in
        its current form. What does "any other" mean? In relation to
        "what"?
        
        Should you have any additional questions, please contact em in
        writing. I mention that any information provided to you must be
        kept strictly confidential. All members of the credit union have
        an affirmative obligation to protect this information.
        
        Sincerely,
        
        (signed)
        
        MARY D. MADDEN
        director of communications
        
        Enclosure (information protection policy)

        What a bunch of doo-doo! DCU wants $132.25 from me just to answer
        the dull half of my questions. Then Mary has the nerve to tell me
        that both this letter and any information I get are confidential.
        I'm really tempted to send the check for $132.25, and forward the
        unopened packet directly to the media! I'll certainly post
        anything I get here, and hope others will do likewise. 

        I was also impressed with the number of different ways Mary could
        word "we won't tell you that". If DCU needs to "take the 5th",
        then something is seriously wrong in Maynard. I will ask Mary if
        she is restrained by the board, or free to speak and write as she
        sees fit. Either the puppeteers and/or the puppet must be removed
        ASAP. 

        I must also insist on DCU's "business reasons" for denying me the
        requested information. 

        At least I got two free answers (petitions and loans), and Mary
        forgot to charge me $.25 plus time "researching" the "information
        protection policy". I think I will send her a check for the two
        bits anyway, just because I'm so pissed. 

        On to some of her responses: 

        I damn well have the right to know if my money is safe at the DCU.
        A closure could tie up some of my finances for who knows how long.
        Given direct deposit, I might not even have access to my salary
        for a period of time if DCU goes under. Maybe I'm even stupid
        enough to deposit over 100K in the DCU :-), and I need to know if
        it will be safe. DCU mismanagement can not hide behind NCUA
        insurance. 

        Legal action has NOT been taken against all individuals
        responsible for the current DCU problems, unless suit has been
        filed against all DCU upper management, and the current DCU BoD.
        To the best of my knowledge, this is not the case. I think it is
        time to change this. 

        7. DCU has officially denied me copies of its rules, regulations,
        and policies. I will inform the NCUA of this documented fact. 

        8. DCU has officially denied me information that would show how
        poorly the DCU management has managed the credit union over the
        past year. I will inform the NCUA of this documented fact. 

        9. DCU has denied me information on how the past elections have
        been held. Allegations have been made that some of them were
        improperly conducted. Without this information, those involved
        remain suspects. I will inform the NCUA of this documented fact. 

        13. Mark Steinkrauss has lied to the members of DCU when he wrote
        the quoted statement (perhaps in 1987?), without disclosing that
        DCU was engaged in participation loans. I want to know if there
        are any other problems waiting to be discovered, or any further
        lies form the chairman of the DCU BoD. 

        Without the above information, I do not know who is at fault for
        allowing Mr. Mangone to run amuck with MY money. Without this
        information, I can not make an informed decision on many
        questions: 

        o  Should I remove all of my funds from the DCU? 

        o  Should I run for the DCU BoD? 

        o  Should I file a lawsuit against the current BoD? 

        o  Should I file a lawsuit against the remaining senior management  
        of the DCU? 

        o  Should I demand an investigation of the DCU from the NCUA   
        (actually, this is now an easy question to answer - YES!) 

        o  Should I go to the press? 

        o  Should I use Digital's "Open Door Policy" to request the
        backing  of the corporation against DCU and the BoD? 

        Unless open, honest answers are forthcoming very shortly, the
        answer to all of these questions will be "YES" 
        

	Well folks, that about sums it up.

	With all the firestorm, I still believed that the DCU was a place
	I wanted to do business with, but not any more.

	We're not allowed to know the names of DCU employees (the lawyers),
	we not to be trusted with policies and procedures of the DCU, we
	can't have auditor's reports on election results (if that isn't valid
	under reason two I don't know what is) and last, but certainly not
	least, there may be MORE SPECULATIVE REAL ESTATE LOANS OUT THERE.

	And then to top it off with a rather unsubtle threat not to disclose
	the information (which I assume would include postings in this file).

	Enough already. 

	OK DCU, you've convinced me. It took a while but you've finally done
	it. I joined the day that you opened, my wife joined the day she 
	started working for DEC, we opened a sharedraft account	two days after
	you offered them, we borrowed money from you when we could have gotten
	slightly better rates elsewhere. But we're done. 

	I didn't want to take this step, I had sincerely hoped that I wouldn't
 	have too. I thought that my friends that closed their accounts were
	doing a "Chicken Little" impersonation. But I see now that I was wrong.

	You're supposed to be a business. Businesses must attract customers.
	Businesses must satisfy customers. You'd think that with board members
	that are all DEC employees that this would be one of your operating
	principles. But it is clearly not your objective to act as a business.

	I wish you (the continuing membership) well. I hope that you can turn
	this credit union around. I won't be here to help you, I'm sorry. But
	I have a personal principle that prohibits me from doing business with
	people like this.

Jim Percival

    Re: .-1
    
    How about leaving $10 in the DCU so you remain a member and can vote at
    the special meeting.  Please make THAT your last act.

Re: .38

   I agree with .39, please don't leave until we evict the BoD.  Everything
   I've  heard  indicates the BoD is pulling the strings, and the employees
   are  dancing.  I'm as pissed as you are, but who's to say any other bank
   is  better?  At  least we have the power to *fix* DCU (tho it might take
   awhile)  and make it what it's supposed to be again if we stay together.
   I'm  still  in  for  the  long haul until the BoDs is removed. 

   I have  a  personal  friend who has probably decided to run.  If he's in
   there,  I'll  trust what's going on.  Otherwise, if I have to run to get
   somebody  in  there who I can trust because I personally know him/her, I
   will.   We  *will* make DCU trustworthy again.  Please help us with your
   support.

       My chexking account was switched more than a month ago. By the end
    of this week my savings account will also be removed from the DCU. I
    have to leave $5 in the account until I pay off my stock loan. These
    people on the BoD are out of control, and it doesn't look like it'll
    get better any time soon. The blatant disregard for our bylaws and the
    new restrictions on information are just too much. I'll have enough in
    there to vote, unless they change that too! And, if and when a new
    board takes over, I may come back. Savings anyway, it's too late to get
    back my checking account.
                                      Denny

>	DCU wants $132.25 from me just to answer the dull half of my 
>	questions. 

	I wonder how many of the ~1200 people who signed petitions calling
	for a special meeting would be willing to part with $1.00 to be spent
	to obtain that information, and more. Getting a request with
	133 one dollar checks from 133 different people might let them know 
	that it isn't just a tiny minority of members that want this 
	information. Maybe that's the wrong tactic, seeing as how we have a 
	right to that information.  If you do decide to send for the info, 
	just tell me where to send my dollar.

					Tom_K

	As I understand the "rules" I have to leave at least $5 in my
	"share" (what a joke that is) account until I pay off my loan.

	But I can't, in good conscience, leave any more than that with 
	this organization.

	Due to the fact that I'm in Colorado, I won't be able to attend
	the special meeting, but my vote (if I were allowed a proxy) is
	certainly with you.

	Should the current BoD and senior management be replaced I might
	be persuaded to return. But for now I'm starting the process to
	take my business eslewhere.

Thanks for the advice,

Jim

	BTW, as for Tom's idea, I'm all for it. If you send me an account
	number (via E-mail at Comet::Percival) I will glasly make a donation
	to the "What the ********* Is Going On Fund).

Jim

    
>1) Please send me the formal policy put into effect at the September
>1991 board meeting that requires all requests such as this to be in
>writing. 
    
>>        1. Enclosed is a copy of our Information Protection Policy.
    
    And no charge to boot.  Hope this doesn't break the DCU.
    
>2) Please send me written verification of the number of petitions to
>call a special meeting that were received on or about September
>17th, 1991. Please indicate how many of these petitions were valid,
>and how many were rejected. 

>>        2. The credit union reviewed 289 petition signatures. Of this
>>        review, 259 were validated, 1 was not a valid member, 1 was not a
>>        valid badge number and 22 did not mathc the signatures on file.
>>        Since only 200 signatures were required for the call of the
>>        meeting, no further petitions were validated.
    
    This is very interesting.  I would like to know how the people
    determined that the signatures didn't match those on file.  Are annual
    ballots validated the same way?  Are people's ballots being rejected
    because they didn't sign with their full name or don't use their middle
    initial?  
        
>3) Please send me the date and time of the special meeting. As you
>may know, the NCUA requires that this meeting be held, not just
>scheduled, by October 17th, 1991. They also require that all DCU
>members be notified of the date of this meeting at least one week
>prior to the meeting date. 

>>        3.  You will receive a Notice of date and time of the special
>>        meeting in accordance with our Bylaws.
    
    The DCU has already violated the Bylaws.  A simple call to the NCUA
    would tell them that.
        
>4) Please send me minutes of the September 1991 Board of Directors
>meeting where presumably all of the above items were discussed. 

>>        4. The Minutes, once approved, will be available in accordance
>>        with our information protection policy.
    
    What does this mean?
        
>5) Please tell me when the DCU first retained Jim Rice, whom he is
>representing, and what matters have been assigned to him. If the DCU
>has any other lawyers on staff or retainer, please give me their
>names and the same information for each of them. 

>        5. The information requested is denied, except that all attorneys
>        hired by the credit union represent the credit union. The
>        information bears no relation to your stated business.
    
	Let's not misinterpret this statement.  The lawyers work for the
    	CREDIT UNION.  That does not mean they work for us.  The people
    	running the credit union control the lawyers.  Let's not mistake
    	the credit union's interest for membership interest.  It is
    	painfully obvious they are two different things.
    
>6) Please send me the monthly DCU statement of condition reports for
>all of 1990 and 1991. 

>>        6. The statements of financial condition for 1990 and 1991 will be
>>        provided within 15 business days of receipt of your check for
>>        $31.00 which covers an estimated 1 hour of staff time and 24 pages
>>        at $.25 per page.
    
    	I have have and will provide copies to all who want them. 
    	Donations sent will go into the "Free the DCU Fund". ;-)
    	And DCU had better hire faster people if it takes somebody 1 hour
    	to copy 24 pages.  And I think you're going to get charged for 4
    	blank pages to boot!
        
>7) Please send me a list of any other policies, rules, or
>regulations which the DCU has adopted for all of 1990 or 1991. 

>>        7. This information will not be provided as it does not relate to
>>        your stated business reason in that it is overly broad.
        
    
>8) Please send me a table of the number of active accounts, number
>of checking accounts closed, number of savings accounts closed, and
>number of other accounts closed for each month of 1991 up to and
>including September. 

>>        8. The information bears no relation to your stated business
>>        reason and is denied.
    
    They'll never disclose this info.
        
>9) Please send me copies of the independent auditors reports for all
>of the DCU elections from 1985 thru the present. Specifically, I
>need the number of ballots mailed, number of ballots received,
>number of ballots rejected (broken down by reason for rejection and
>number in each category), number of valid ballots counted, and vote
>totals for each candidate who received any votes. Please include any
>write-in votes cast as well as those names that were on the ballots.

>>        9. This information will not be provided as it bears no relation
>>        to your stated business reason.
    
	Again, election result information denied.  Election results HAVE
    NO BUSINESS VALUE and therefore no business reason.  Yet they are 
    withholding this information.  I will repeat.  This is the request that
    got this policy implemented.  Come clean DCU.
    
>10) Please send me copies of the complete DCU auditors financial
>reports for the years 1985 to present. be sure to include all of the
>auditors notes that are not included in the statements sent to
>members, and the statement from the auditor that the reports are
>complete and represent a true summary of the condition of the DCU. 

>>        10. This information will be provoded within 15 business days of
>>        receipt of your check in the sum of $75.00 which covers an
>>        estimated 2 hours of staff time and 100 pages at $.25 per page
    
    Gotta love it.  At least we now know just how much information they
    have been withholding from the financial statements.  I have read it
    all.  Much of it is boring.  A lot doesn't mean much unless you have a
    business or financial background.  BUT, there are some very clear and
    concise notes concerning our "investments" on the Cape.
    
>11) Please send me a list of amendments made to the DCU charter by
>the Board of Directors from 1985 to present. Include both the
>original and changed wording. You may exclude any changes that were
>submitted to the entire membership for a vote of approval. 

>>        11.  this information will be provided within 15 business days of
>>        receipt of your check for $26.25 which covers an estimated 1 hour
>>        of staff time and 5 pages at $.25 per page. You may wish to note
>>        the the current charter is available for inspection during
>>        business hours at all our offices of the credit union.
    
>12) Please tell me if any current or former member of the Board of
>Directors of the DCU or any person currently or formerly employed by
>the DCU has any loan from the DCU which would not be available to
>the general membership (e.g. car loan, first mortgage, student loan,
>etc.). I do NOT want confidential specifics of any loan that any of
>these persons may have, just a statement that there are no such
>loans, or a statement listing the specific individuals that have
>such loans. 

>>        12. No current of (sic) former board member or employee has been
>>        granted lonas on terms more favorable than available to the
>>        general membership.
    
    Prove it.  There is a statement from the former DCU President which has
    not been explained by DCU which APPEARS to indicate otherwise.        
    
>13) Please tell me if there are any other loans, investments, or
>other DCU funds that are anywhere other than in loans to DCU "member
>loans, ... government securities, and federal insured banks." 

>>        13. This request must be restated as I am unable to evaluate it in
>>        its current form. What does "any other" mean? In relation to
>>        "what"?
    
    "Any other" as in anything not covered by the previously specified
    loans.  DCU's answer is ridiculous.  They are playing word games.
    
    
>>        Should you have any additional questions, please contact em in
>>        writing. I mention that any information provided to you must be
>>        kept strictly confidential. All members of the credit union have
>>        an affirmative obligation to protect this information.
    
    Sorry Mary but once information has been paid for by somebody it is
    theirs to do with as they please.  If it must be kept secret then I'm
    sure for a certain fee the membership will consider all such requests
    should they be sent in writing with the reason for secrecy.  We'll get
    back to you in 15 days... ;-)
    
    

re .45

>>4) Please send me minutes of the September 1991 Board of Directors
>>meeting where presumably all of the above items were discussed. 
>
>>>        4. The Minutes, once approved, will be available in accordance
>>>        with our information protection policy.
>    
>    What does this mean?

	I expect that the minutes cannot be distributed until after they
	have been approved by the Board. This makes sense, since Board
	members should have the right to review a draft minutes and
	make corrections to them. I expect that the rest means that
	if you want them, you must submit a written request which includes
	what the DCU considers a valid business reason, and if the request
	is approved, you get to pay $.25 per page, plus administrative
	costs to obtain them.

						Tom_K
	

  You must ABSOLUTELY keep them secret!!!  If you didn't how could the
DCU make money???  If these documents got out you might also cause a run
on the bank...

    
    RE: .46
    
    That's what I thought it meant.  Unfortunately, the same materials must
    now be requested twice.  The response implies they will be available
    after they are reviewed but doesn't say when that is (probably the next
    BoD meeting).  Any bets on what the answer will be to requests after
    they are reviewed?  Invalid business reason is may guess.
    

I don't want to raise any unnecessary flags here, but I gotta wonder how much
"correction of the minutes" is allowed?  Can they delete whole sections?

Also, if the Board goes into executive session, are those minutes (if any
are kept)_available, or do they fall into an abyss of confidential data?

/chris

    Well, senators and congressmen can "correct" the Congressional
    Record to the point that it bears absolutely no relationship
    to what they actually said on the floor.  I don't know if the
    BoD feels themselves similarly privilged regarding minutes
    of meetings.  One would hope not.

>    Well, senators and congressmen can "correct" the Congressional
>    Record to the point that it bears absolutely no relationship
>    to what they actually said on the floor.  I don't know if the
>    BoD feels themselves similarly privilged regarding minutes
>    of meetings.  One would hope not.

A famous example of this was the moving speech given by a Senator,
of the floor of the Senate, they day after his plane crashed in (I believe)
Alaska.  "It's in the record"

I forget the name, it was a while ago

        <<< Note 289.50 by VERGA::WELLCOME "Steve Wellcome (Maynard)" >>>

    Well, senators and congressmen can "correct" the Congressional
    Record to the point that it bears absolutely no relationship
    to what they actually said on the floor.  I don't know if the
    BoD feels themselves similarly privilged regarding minutes
>    of meetings.  One would hope not.

	But one would expect so...(IMHO).

    Whoa, lower the paranoia level.  Meeting minutes are typically reviewed
    and approved at the next meeting to catch typos, simple mistakes, and,
    occasionally, important points that were left out.  The motivation is
    keeping an accurate record, not fiddling with history.  Just about
    any board or membership meeting works this way.
    
    Wes

    Re: .51
    
    Hale Boggs, I believe, in the early '70s.  Congress passed a law after
    that requiring all aircraft to carry ELTs (Emergency Locator
    Transmitters).
    
    Sorry for the digression.

    
>8) Please send me a table of the number of active accounts, number
>of checking accounts closed, number of savings accounts closed, and
>number of other accounts closed for each month of 1991 up to and
>including September. 

>>        8. The information bears no relation to your stated business
>>        reason and is denied.
    

Loss of Deposits 
    
    One of the C.U. staffmembers at the meeting said that roughly 8% of all
    share draft accounts had been closed after the announcement of checking
    fees. That could account for the 4% reduction in share draft deposits
    in the September Statement of Condition ( cited in note 272.20).

RE: .37 & .42

>	DCU wants $132.25 from me just to answer the dull half of my 
>	questions. 

>	I wonder how many of the ~1200 people who signed petitions calling
>	for a special meeting would be willing to part with $1.00 to be spent
>	to obtain that information, and more. Getting a request with
>	133 one dollar checks from 133 different people might let them know 
>	that it isn't just a tiny minority of members that want this 
>	information. Maybe that's the wrong tactic, seeing as how we have a 
>	right to that information.  If you do decide to send for the info, 
>	just tell me where to send my dollar.


I will also be glad to contribute (on a pro rata basis) to any collection to
buy information from DCU (sounds ridiculous when you put it that way, 'eh),
until we can get this policy overturned.

Jim

Gotta love it. Not only do they want .25 /page where it probably costs less than
.05 /page, but their "staffer" must be making $25 /hour (which comes out to
approx $52K /year). And Phil is right - if it takes this "staffer" one hour
to make 24 copies, at $52K/year, we have REAL problems... :-) (yeah, yeah, I
know - that includes benefits, so he/she probably makes, what, $45k/year?)

I also like the line about "fully insured by the NCUA, a division of the Gov't."
Who "insures" the Gov't? We do..

I wonder what the response would be if the "business reason" was stated: because
I have a right to this information, and if you don't release it to me, I'll see
you in court.. Probably a thumb'd nose..

I'll volunteer for the "What the ..." fund too, if it's needed.

If the BoD doesn't come clean on this stuff, they have to go. This is crazy. 

Bryan

        Just for the record...
        
        I have no intentions of sending the DCU a dime for their
        "information". I will be sending a letter to the NCUA with a copy
        of the DCU doo-doo and demand an investigation of this scum
        infested pond of muck. I will also be taking other actions as I
        see fit,possibly but not limited to legal action against the DCU
        management and its BoD.

re .58

While I agree that the DCU should not charge for this information, I
think the check idea contains the seeds of an excellent protest.  If any
of the active questioners decides to call the DCU's bluff and buy the 
information, I will send you a check for $1, made payable to the DCU.
Hopefully, a lot of other disaffected members would do the same thing.

Just think of the effect.  They tell someone that a piece of information
costs, say, $30, and they get 30 separate $1 checks, each signed by a DCU
member.  And every time they charge someone for information, they get
another set of checks signed by different people.  It won't be possible
for them to claim that the signatures on these "petitions" aren't valid,
or that the information is wanted only by a few crackpots!

Making the checks payable directly to the DCU has other effects, besides
forcing the DCU to acknowledge that a lot of DCU members are ready to put
up cash to voice their protest of the "information protection" policy.
It provides a level of assurance that the money will get used for its
intended purpose.  This is important if people are going to send money 
to someone they don't know.  It also avoids any appearance that the money 
is being donated to an individual or committee.  Instead, it's just a
bunch of members pooling their resources to get something from the Board
that they ought to consider ours by right.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    This is all interesting but I honestly don't believe DCU is going to
    give us anything of value.  In the process we will be charged for
    useless dribble that they do decide to give us.  I'm just waiting for
    the first "marked up" information to be delivered.  You know, 18
    missing words, etc.
    
    I would save your time and energy for filing complaints with the NCUA
    and your congressman to document the entire DCU travesty.  In the
    process, you may acquire the very documents you seek when DCU responds
    to the NCUA.
    
    I just hate to see so much time and effort being wasted playing DCU's
    game and jumping thru the hoops they have put up.  What they have failed 
    to disclose will be disclosed to investigators or will be released by the
    new BoD in a few months I suspect.
    
    Just my opinion though...

In only slightly partial fairness to the copying rates:

Well, it isn't just a matter of putting the documents into the copier.  It's
also a matter of getting the documents in the first place and walking over to
the copier, etc.  Collecting the information is part of the copying task, but
is less tangible.  So, maybe it'll take them another 5 minutes to find them
on top of the five minutes it takes to do the copying.

Of course, that's all moot.  We own the place, so we're already paying their 
salaries, whether or not they give us this information.  I cannot imagine how
"Because I/we own the place" isn't an adequate business reason for getting 
information on how the place is being run.

    
    RE: .61
    
    The message I get from DCU's response is more that we do not own the
    place.  They run the credit union so they own the place (and the
    information).  In short, thinking like a bank instead of a credit
    union.  We, as DCU shareholders/owners, must reassert our right of
    ownership.  November 12th is the date to do it.
    
    As for the charges, they are gauging us for the information.  But we
    have come to expect nothing less of them.  A sad situation for a
    "credit Union".
    

Yes, that's what Mark Steinkrauss told me -- in his view, we are members,
we are not really investors or owners.  I guess he thinks we are like
members of a shopping club, as opposed to being part owners of the store.

This position on his part is consistent with his and the board's actions.
We all have to decide whether we want a board with that attitude, and act
accordingly.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    I would be willing to donate money to get information also.  If someone
    needs a one dollar check made out to DCU, let me know.
    
    	- mark

    Somebody owns the DCU.  I wonder just who Mr. Steinkrauss thinks that
    is.

    
    Let's face it people.  These people have been in power so long they
    have lost touch with reality.  The system and rules they have
    surrounded themselves with have cloaked their actions (loans to Cape
    Cod real estate developers, closed minutes, bylaw changes) and preserve
    their existence (appointments to Board, Nominating Comm., Supervisory
    Comm., etc.).  I'm sure they view the annual elections as a waste of
    their money and a necessary evil (near contact with regular members).
    After all, they are the BOARD OF DIRECTORS.  We are merely here to
    provide them with money for them to "invest" as they wish.  And should
    you dare stand up and ask a question, be prepared to be smitten with
    their almighty "information control policy".
    
    Just my impression.  Your mileage may vary.

    88,000 members * $5 minimum share = $440,000
    
    DCU lost ten times that last year.  Someone would probably laugh at the
    thought that anyone could own the DCU for $440K.
    
    Steve

    
    Well, after seeing this, I am going to make an effort to be at that
    meeting.  When I got the famous "choice" memo, I was irritated.
    When I began reading some of the interactions recounted here, I was
    mad.  After seeing the unmitigated gall in Ms. Madden's missive,
    I'm furious.  Perhaps by the meeting, I'll have gone ballistic.
    
    Steve
    

    

Re: Note 289.63
    
    >Yes, that's what Mark Steinkrauss told me -- in his view, we are members,
>we are not really investors or owners.  I guess he thinks we are like
>members of a shopping club, as opposed to being part owners of the store.
    
    The term used to describe deposits at a credit union is the "Share". 
    This suggests something like a company, with shares of stock, 
    however, it does get confusing....
    
    From Websters II New Riverside dictionary:
    
    	credit union n.  A cooperative organization that makes low interest
    	loans to its members.
                       ^
                       |
    ??? ---------------+
    
    Regarding these memos to the credit union asking for information.  It's
    seems apparent that an attorney is advising someone on the other side. 
    Perhaps an attorney should be consulted before sending more requests?
    
    Just my $.02  (On deposit at a different CU now!)
    

    
.0>       You can send your written complaints to the NCUA at the following
.0>    address:
.0>    
.0>    		National Credit Union Association
.0>    		Mr. Layne Bumgardner
.0>    		9 Washington Square
.0>    		Washington Ave. Extension
.0>    		Albany, NY  12205
.0>    
.0>    		518-472-4554
    
    Anyone know if this information is still valid.
    
    The phone number is constantly busy.
    

    
    This is updated contact information for the NCUA. (It's "Admin", not
    "Assoc", and the phone number changed).
    
    
    		National Credit Union Administration
    		Mr. Layne Bumgardner
    		9 Washington Square
    		Washington Ave. Extension
    		Albany, NY  12205
    		518-464-4180