Conference unifix::sailing

    Not me, but I am interested in 505s. Do you have one?
    
    Doug.

    Hi
    
    I own a Javelin which I sail a few times a year. I mainly crew in a 505
    which we recently sold in order to buy a new one ready for the
    nationals. This is proving to be harder than we first imagined (presumably
    because of the Nats). We are in the process of bartering for a Parker
    Special (made just pre to the '25'). It has a lot of extra Kevlar,etc.
    If this falls through my helm has a build date booked for a new Rondar.
    
    

    Yes, (I hope)
                  I have Crewed in the last two Nationals in Wales and
    also Scotland.      I like the thought of Cornwall for 95. But have
    not got myself teamed up with a helm or crew.
    My home club is Prestwick, where the Nats were last year.
    I now sail with my 15 year old son, who is only 7 stone therefore 
    we struggle in the heavy stuff.  Although we have done all the
    Traveler,s  (your Q) I am hoping to team up with someone able to
    half the costs of the week.
                                  Alan.

    Hi
    We have not done any open meetings this year due to my helms work
    committments and not having a boat for the last month or so. If we
    get a boat in time for the Nats we will probably take two cars and a
    caravan.
    The Nats should be very good this year with the Worlds following on
    immediately. I have not participated in 505 Nats before.
    
    Matthew

    There was somebody looking for a ride at the Worlds. Are you guys on
    the internet mailing list?

    Hi
    How many pounds of forestay ring tension do you use on your 505?
    
    Matthew

    How hard is it to get a 505 back on its feet?
    
    Doug.

    Hi
    Its very hard to get a 505 back up to speed unless youve got alot of
    experience or are a natural at tuning. There are lots of tuning sheets
    available from either sail makers or mast manufacturers etc. Most of
    these are very similar and are a good starting point. It is from that
    stage onwards that it becomes difficult. Because The 505 rig is
    relativly large and the rules allow so much variaty of ajustment, it is
    very easy to get bogged down and confussed in just tuning the boat.
    Having said that to go fast it is something you have to go through.
    Quite a few 505 sailors do alot of onland boat tuning. 
    As for restoring an old boat, most are made from GRP. Nearly all now are
    made from Epoxy ,Kevlar and some carbon. Very light especially at the
    ends. The older ones I presume and made from Polyester resin and some
    have very nice wooden fordecks. Repairing these boats is relativly easy
    once one has got used to useing resin or gel coat. As with all these
    things good preparation is the key. Obviously some have been raced
    harder than others so a very intensive examination of a boat than one
    may buy is a must. 
    
    Matthew

    Yep, the New England 505 fleet has a bunch of fiberglass-hull,
    wooden-deck boats. I stopped by the 505 gang at the Hyannis regatta a
    couple of weeks ago and they were frantically repairing two broken
    masts. The strong wind caused the committee boat to drag its anchor so
    racing was cancelled; this irritated the 505 people because the 20+
    wind is "perfect" for these boats, but ironically they had several
    breakdowns on the way back to the beach.
    
    These boats are pretty impressive in size and complexity. I'm not sure
    I'm enough of a sailor to handle one, but I hope to find a ride on one
    one of these days. It's easy to see why they would be hard to tune...
    
    My specific question, poorly stated, was: How hard is it to get a 505
    upright after you capsize? Compared to other dinghys...
    
    Doug.

Capsizing - and Righting - a 505

by Peter Mignerey, Graham Alexander, and Ali Meller

Despite it's high-performance billing, the 505 is actually quite
forgiving and easy to sail.  The flared tanks give the boat
considerable stability as it heels, and the rudder rarely stalls until
the boat is heeled way over.  You have fair warning - and time to
forestall - a capsize.

None-the-less, capsizing is easy to do, so we will focus on how to
right a capsized 505.  Fortunately, righting the 505 is easy, and you
can be on your way, back in the race, rather quickly.

First the obvious - you should have a life jacket on.  It is not much
use stowed up forward is it? Find a comfortable lifejacket that does
not constrain your movements, and does not have too much bulk in the
shoulders (you do not want to make getting underneath the boom more
difficult).  I like the Musto Regatta Vest for this reason, others
recommend the SEDA kayak vests.  I suspect the new
self-inflating type PFDs may work as well, but I have not tried them
(I also do not know what happens after they inflate the first time -
presumably you must keep it inflated for the rest of the race).  If you
want a US Coast Guard approved PFD, many dinghy sailors use the
Extrasport.  If the water is cold, you should be wearing a
wetsuit, or in extreme cold, a drysuit.  

The Capsize
Basically, you either capsize to leeward, or to windward.  A typical
leeward capsize is being blown over by a gust while going upwind, or
having the boom hit the water due to rake and vang on a reach.  A
typical windward capsize happens when you are going on a reach,
downwind, or while trying to gybe.  Remember that due to the speed, the
first control for balance is steering (put the bow under the falling
mast) due to the centrifugal force on the mast.  Pulling the tiller
toward you will flatten the boat or capsize it to windward if done
excessively.  Conversely, pushing the tiller at speed will heel the
boat or cause a leeward capsize if excessive.  These responses are
immediate, regardless of sail trim or sail angle.  To maintain control
sail trim must them be adjusted correctly but at speed, the tiller is
the initial balance control.  

In either case, you want to get some
weight on the centerboard without climbing over the boat to get to
it.  

Leeward Capsize 
Once the mast hits the water you must
immediately get off of the windward gunwale, otherwise your
weight will drive the boat over further, possibly breaking the mast if
it gets stuck in the bottom.  Another factor causing a turtle is wind
pressure on the bottom of the boat causing the boat to drift over the
mast driving it down.  In really bad conditions an extra person on the
bow helps here.  The 505 will float on its side for some time if left
alone (unlike some other designs that turn turtle very quickly,
except in high wind where a turtle will occur relatively quickly due
the amount of hull acting as a sail.  Having a hull float high means
little water inside but a big sail driving for turtle on a leeward
capsize.  

If you are trying to climb up the inside to the high
side, so you can step onto the board, you will be turning the boat
turtle while doing so.  If you are on the high rail when the mast hits
the water, stepping over the rail onto the centerboard is OK,
otherwise, fall into the water and swim around the transom (I have
occasionally gone underneath the boat, but this is risky due to the
lines in the water - the last time I tried this, I had to untangle a
spinnaker sheet from my foot), to get to the centerboard.  In a leeward
capsize, the crew often can sense it coming.  As you approach
perpendicular and before you are pulled over, squat and straddle the
rail.  You were so high that you weren't helping to right the boat, and
sitting down is much easier than leaping or being pulled into the
sail/mast.  The skipper can usually get a leg over the rail before
leaving the rail on a leeward capsize also.  Nobody wet, time to get it
up before turtle etc.  In any case, try to get one person onto the
centerboard.  

If you cannot climb on to the centerboard, hold onto
the tip of the centerboard and put your feet on the (underside of the)
rail and pull down on the centerboard.  This should gradually bring the
boat back to lying on its side, with the centerboard close to water
level.  It is worth ensuring that the sheets are uncleated before you
try to get the boat up the rest of the way.  Uncleating the vang may
help as well. 

In a race, we try to bring the boat up as quickly as
possible so we lose the least distance.  We do not try to swim the bow
around, we just get on the centerboard.  If the spinnaker was up, we
try to bring the boat up with the spinnaker, and only stop to stow the
spinnaker if things are a real mess.  

Windward Capsize

A windward capsize is usually messy, i.e.  both people are on the wrong
side of the boat.  If you are trying to climb up the inside to the high
side so you can step onto the board, you will be turning the boat
turtle while doing so.  If you are on the high rail when the mast hits
the water, stepping over the rail onto the centerboard is OK.  Don't
even try to go over the boat, get one person around the back of the
hull to the centerboard, and proceed as for a leeward capsize.  Wind
pressure will eventually force the gybe, so the boom and sail are in
the water as with the leeward capsize.  

Hull Drifting to Leeward of Rig

 If you do not get the boat up right away, the hull will
eventually drift downwind of the mast, whichever way you capsized.
When you right the boat, it may try to go over the other way.  You can
prevent that by having one of you floating in the water holding onto
the lower shroud, with the other person on the centerboard.  When the
boat comes up, try to be "scooped up" by the boat.  Keep your weight on
that side so as to stop the boat coming up and going over the other
way in one motion.  The person on the board can - if feeling
adventurous - hold onto the board, and let it take you to the windward
side as the boat comes up. 

Another way is to make haste slowly,
with the wind really blowing (that is why you capsized, right) and the
mast about to clear the water, dive forward as if to push the mast
back under water.  With the mast on or slightly under the water, the
sail will begin to fill enough to blow the boat head to wind.  When it
is head to wind rather than mast to wind, complete the righting.  It's
not magic, it does work.  

I once saw a couple who had not learned
the lesson attempt to right a boat with the mast into the wind, and
they went through 21 complete turtles before they got to the leeward
shore.  Needless to say they were exhausted.  They learned the lesson
and never had that problem again.  

If you turtle in deep water,
everything will be fine.  You can climb onto the hull, stand on one
rail, hold onto the tip of the board, and lean back.  Give the boat
time to respond.  You will gradually bring the boat up to its side.  As
this happens, get on the centerboard, and right it normally.  If you
capsized in shallow water and turtled the boat, you may have the mast
stuck in the bottom (I told you not to try and climb up the inside of
the boat, didn't I!).  Get one person on the centerboard, and see if
you can work the mast loose with the weight.  As long as the mast is
not too deep in the bottom, the pressure of the wind on the hull will
gradually rotate the boat to leeward of the rig, possibly working the
mast free at the same time.  If that doesn't work, a gentle tow from a
powerboat (in the direction that pulls along the length of the mast,
pulling the tip away from the bottom), with a line around the bottom
of the forestay should work.  

Your Safety is the Prime Concern

 your safety is more important than
the boat.  Hypothermia is not a joke, it can kill.  You can get it in 80
degree air and water temperature - just wear cotton and no
windbreaker.  If your lips are blue, you are slurring your speech or
can't seem to talk, don't make sense, can't seem to think, you need
out.  Now!!!!!!!!!!!! The boat will probably be fine even if it
spends hours capsized.  Even is shallow water, a broken mast is
probably the worst damage you could expect from leaving a capsized
boat.  

Getting Back into the Boat

When the boat comes up you
have to figure out the best way for you to get back into it.  The
person on the centerboard should be able to step from the centerboard
over the rail, back into the boat.  The other person may be able to be
"scooped up", or can come over the side or transom (some 505 sailors
crawl in over the transom because it is the lowest part of the boat).
Other good options are to grab a trapeze handle, lean back in the
water, throw your feet over the gunwale and do a kip into the
boat.  A crew wearing a trapeze harness and possibly a weight jacket
may have trouble getting over the side.  Assuming the skipper got in
the boat first, the skipper can heel the boat to windward, lowering
the windward rail for the crew, or can lower the trapeze hook and have
the crew hook up to it.  Even if the crew cannot kip into the
boat, being hooked up and outside the boat will allow them to lift
themselves up on the trapeze adjuster, and then push off the rail.  You
may also be able to reach in, grab something like the traveler and
haul yourself in.  

Getting Back Into the Race

Even if you have
brought the boat up completely full of water, you are still in the
race! Open both Elvstrom bailers, and open the transom bailers
(if they are just taped, blow the tape - you don't need to close them
on a windy day).  Point the boat at the next mark, and get going.  You
do not need to reach off below closehauled if you are on a beat.  Much
of the water will simply flow over the transom and over the seat tanks
at the back.  The boat will pick up speed, and the suction bailers will
get the rest of the water out very quickly.  The one maneuver you may
wish to postpone is a gybe.  A heavy air gybe when full of water may
result in another capsize.  You can probably get the boat dry in a
minute or so.  If you are quick, you will not have lost all that much
time, and may be able to get back into the race.  I can remember
capsizing twice in a race, and still managing to win over teams that
did not capsize at all.  I have also capsized in races at a World
Championship and managed to fight back to close to the position we
were in when we capsized. 

The most spectacular 505 capsize and
righting prize probably goes to Peter Mignerey and Monty Schumpert,
who rolled in to weather going down a three sail reach during a Cape
Code North American Championship.  Somehow, a puff of wind caught the
sails, they were able to sheet in, and water start the 505
just like it was a windsurfer.  They were up on plane, with Monty on
the wire, and with the bailer sucking the water out, in just a few
moments.  

Practice

This may sound complicated to those who
have not done it.  It is not.  Righting a 505 is actually quite easy.  If
you are not sure exactly how to handle a capsize, an unscheduled swim
in early spring during a race is not the best way to learn!
Practice this under controlled conditions with someone ready to provide assistance.  Go practice in smooth water on a nice warm day so that you know what to expect.  - No joke.


In Conclusion:
The 505 is more stable and easier to sail than you may think.  It will capsize,
but is easy to right.  You will be able to get back into the race.

wear a PFD and warm enough clothing (its usually colder than you think, 
and you can take it off or unzip it if you are too hot.  If you left it on 
shore, you have a problem even before you capsize.)

If unsure of the procedure, practice it ahead of time.

Only step onto the board if you are on the high rail - do not try to climb
up the inside of the boat.

Get one person onto the centerboard as soon as possible.  If they 
cannot get on the centerboard, have them grab the tip of the centerboard 
and pull.  Get them on top of the board when you can.

If you can get up quickly, don't bother swimming the bow around, 
or dousing the spinnaker, as long as the mast is not pointed into the (strong) wind.

If the boat is drifting down wind of the mast, consider swimming the bow 
into the wind and stowing the spinnaker.

Try to have the person on the CB step inside the boat as it comes up.

Try to have the second person "scooped up" as the boat comes up.

If the second person is still in the water try to use the trapeze hook 
on the windward side, 
or have them climb in over the transom.

If you are having trouble:

Monitor your partner's condition.

Monitor your own condition.

Accept assistance if appropriate.

Get out of the water if necessary.

Leave the boat - it will be fine.



The authors have had many opportunities to perfect their capsize-and-righting
technique.  Fortunately, unscheduled practice sessions are now few and far between.<i>


Peter Mignerey / [email protected]<br>
Graham Alexander / [email protected]<br>
Ali Meller / [email protected]

About a year ago in October we capsized just after a windy gybe. We tried to
bring the boat up quickly without rocking it around to head-to-wind first. As
one would expect the boat just capsized on the other side. Unfortunately the
rudder came off and before we noticed, it had drifted a few feet away. Being the
one in the water I swam to retreive it, but couldn't swim back with the drag of
the rudder. The scary thing about it was when the next boats caught up, flew
around the mark, Gybed and sailed in my direction. After  about 10 or so minutes
in the water the Harbour Master happened to go past and came over and pulled the
rudder and myself out of the water. I couldn't understand why the crew that
pulled me out of the water was giving me such funny looks, until I realized that
I had a terrorist style balaclaver on my head. Anyway I was dropped back in the
water near the boat and we got it upright and sailed back to shore knackered.

I have found on the few times we have capsized (usually in high winds when I
have a weight jacket on) that a 505 sits very high in the water when on its
side, and it proves very difficult to get onto the CB.


Matthew

    After one such swim retreaving the rudder, I invested in a short piece
    off string , which keeps the blade on the blunt end when inverted!!
                Alan.

    If the boat has rudder priddles (sp??) that extend past the grougens,
    you may be able to drill a small hole in them and slide one of those
    stainless  steel safety pins through it. Then it can never detach
    unless you first pull the pin.
    
    

The 505 concerned had the lttle stainless thingy that you have to push out of
the way to remove the rudder. I think this must have moved away from its orignal
position through use. I think the rudder fitting are called Gudgeon and Pintal.

Matthew

    Where are all these 5o5,s Sailed ???
    We have 12 at PRESTWICK.S.C. on the WEST coast of Scottland.

    I was using our club's Finn a couple of weeks ago and somebody had
    misunderstood the little spring thing that retains the rudder. It took
    me 10 wasted minutes to remove the pintle, bend the spring back, and
    put it all back together. However, given my past experiences with the
    Finn, it was probably worth the reduced chance of losing the rudder.
    
    There's a reasonable-sized 505 community on the east coast of the U.S.,
    with monthly regattas in New England alone. If willing to drive further
    afield, I expect one could race weekly in the Northeastern U.S.
    
    The 505 class association has a very good home page at:
    
    http://skipper.biosci.ohio-state.edu/0c:/505.htm|/
    
    For some obscure reason you have to go out through the CRL gateway
    instead of the PA gateway or else the page doesn't work right...
    
    Doug.

It is strange how you don't really see any large fleets of boats in any class
any more, not on the South coast anyway. I think it must have been due to the
recession and more recently the influx of so many new go-faster;twin-trapeeze;
Aysametric and bowsprit boats. Being highly marketed by Topper, Laser and Rondar
etc.  It will be interesting to see which classes prove to be the most popular
over the next few years. I have already heard rumours that sailors  are moving
away from Laser 5000 to Topper Boss's due to the fact that 5000s are very heavy
and hard to right. The Boss has a carbon mast etc.

505's are sailed at Southampton,Stokes Bay, Lee-On -Solent, Graffham Water,
Stone- on the Blackwater, Hayling Island, Chichester, Gorlston-& East Anglia
that I know of. There is an open meeting at Hayling Island on the 16-17th Sept
1995. 

Matthew

    Strange choice, as the ISO *																
             which is a smaller BOSS , Is now out of production!!!!
                                                               Al.

    Does anyone out there know the current price of a WATERRAT and 
    the cost of shipping to the U.K.
                                     AL.

    Current U.S. price is about $15,000, according to the info on the
    505 WWW page. Shipping stuff back and forth in containers is
    pretty cheap; I know that it's around $1000 to ship a car. For the
    recent 505 worlds in the U.K. several U.S. sailors got together and
    shipped their boats together in one container. If you could find
    a dealer who sells some other small U.S.-made boat you could probably
    work a deal.
    
    Here's a recent copy of the "505's for sale" list from the class
    association...
    
    Doug.
    
    
    
    
5o5s For Sale in North America

Hull Number; Builder; Bags or launcher?; Mast; Sails; Blades; Covers; Asking; Owner; Home no; Office no; Trailer?;
Location (State/Province)

USA ??; Honor Marine; bag; mast not specified; Danger sails; covers not
specified; standard blades; $1500; Dennis Dobe; 603 735-6485; trailer
included; NH?

USA 2986; Lindsay?; bags not specified; mast not specified; 1.3 suits;
standard blades; covers not specified; $750; Call 201 208-8981; trailer not
specified; NJ?

USA 3353; Parker; bags not specified; Proctor; sails not specified; standard
blades; covers not specified; $500; Robert; 408 971-3821; trailer included;
CA

USA 3556; Moore; launcher; new Proctor D & spare; HP suit & 3 chutes;
standard blades; covers not specified; $5000; Steve Nolen; 916 791-2671;
trailer included; CA

USA 3918; Parker; bags not specified; mast not specified; blades not
specified; sails not specified; covers not specified; $2000; G.D. Trimble;
805 937-2518; trailer not specified; CA

USA 4019; Parker; launcher; Proctor; sails not specified; standard blades;
top cover; $2000; Conrad Roelli; 206 896-1683; trailer not specified; WA

USA 4379; Parker; launcher; Proctor Beta Minus; old sails; Ballenger CB;
old top and bottom covers; US$600; Fred Byergo; 708 680 1972; 708 362
2330; no trailer; IL

USA 4381; Parker; launcher; Proctor D; old sails; standard blades; top and
bottom covers; $500; Rod Wright; 513 767-1047; trailer included; OH

USA 4587; Parker; launcher; Proctor Beta Minus; 2 suits, old;
graphite-reinforced CB; covers not specified; $500; Ted Wills; 513
793-8503; 513 721-4876; trailer included; OH

CAN 5???; Parker; bags not specified; mast not specified; standard; covers
not specified; $2500 Canadian;613 225-7401; Rapide combi; Ontario

USA 5509; Rondar; launcher; Proctor; 1 suit; standard blades; covers not
specified; $750; Tara; 415 435 4945; trailer included; CA

CAN 6351; Rondar, launcher, Proctor D; Hood plus spares; two
centreboards; covers, combi trailer; $3000 Canadian; ready to race; Pierre
Ferland; 418 548 7332; 418 699 3528;E-mail Pierre at
[email protected]; Quebec, Canada

USA 6495; Lindsay/Parker; bag; Epsilon and Z-spar; Norths; Lindsay; top
& bottom covers; $3000; Kenny Elliot; 804 850-0563; 804 864-4359;
trailer included; VA;E-mail Ken at [email protected]

USA 6499; Ballenger; launcher; Superspar; sails not specified; standard
blades; covers not specified; $2500; Anne Henderson; 206 783-0677;
trailer included; WA

CAN 6802; Parker; launcher; Proctor D; sails not specified; standard
blades; sails not specified; $3200 Canadian; ; Chris Gillies; 819 682-3150;
613 763-7987; Rapide combi; Ontario; E-mail Chris at [email protected]

USA 7061; Ballenger; launcher; ?? + spare; new sails; Waterat/Waterat;
top & bottom covers; US$2800; Fred Byergo; 708 680 1972; 708 362 2330;
trailer; IL

USA 7066; Lindsay; bag; Proctor D & Beta; lots of sails; Lindsay
(refinished); top & bottom covers; $5500; John Dohan; 313 885-0774; 313
886 8690; dolly; MI

USA 7151; Lindsay; bag; new Proctor D, Z-spar; North, Ullman, Hyde; 2
stes of blades; no covers; $4000; Michael Zavell; 508 990-2279; 508
291-2770; no trailer; MA

USA 7153; Hamlin; launcher; Proctor D; Danger & more; Waterat blades;
top & bottom covers; & 7000; Bill Jager; 510 283-3565; 510 253-2520;
Pronto combi; CA

USA 7199; Lindsay; bag; 2 Proctor Ds (1 new); Norths/Pinnel; Lindsay
blades; top & bottom covers; $5000; Art Gleason; 203 281-6955; 203
432-3142; dolly & trailer; CT. E-mail Art at [email protected]

USA 7203; Ballenger; bag boat; carbon and S-glass hull; Lindsay blades;
Proctor mast unknown section, second mast also (may be a D); spare
boom; North and Ulmer main; 3 jibs; cox trailer; repairable top cover;
tired bottom cover; Kevin Kelly 203 762-3819 (h); CT

USA 7347; Waterat composite; bag; Epsilon mast; Waterat foils (new
rudder); top and bottom covers; US$5800; Toby Cooper; 415 473 7951;
415 326 4770; trailer with gunwale support; minimum weight; good
condition; CA

USA 7354; Waterat foam core; Epsilon mast, new boom; Waterat foils; no
trailer; foam delamination repaired; boat will be weighed; Richard
Klajnscek. (ask Ali Meller for more info.) MA

USA 7355; Home built cedar cold molded; launcher; D mast; home built
foils; US$??; Dave Blessing;703 360-7411; 703 602 8793; trailer; This is a
beautiful all wooden boat for a wooden boat aficionado. MD, VA; E-mail
Dave at [email protected]

USA 7613; Kyrwood; launcher; Proctor D; 2 sets Pattison sails; Waterat
foils; top and bottom covers; US$4200; Kevin Lewis; 303 290-0470;
custom trailer; hydraulic shroud adjusters; CO

USA 7791; Parker; bags; Proctor D?;2 suits Ullmans; Waterat foils &
Parker foils;top and bottom covers; US$4000; Brad Thompson; 303 756
8432; Rapide combi trailer; CO

CAN 7798; Parker; bag; Proctor epsilon; 2 suits, North/Johnson/Ullman;
standard blades; top & bottom covers; $6500 Canadian; Marg Hurley; 613
820-7618; 613 954-8472; trailer negotiable. Ontario. E-mail Marg at
[email protected]

CAN 7950; Parker; bag; Proctor epsilon; Norths, old Ullmans; standard
blades; top & bottom covers; $5000 Canadian; Marie Gendron; 613
741-0624; 613 748-5687; Rapide combi; Ontario.

USA 8???; Lindsay/Grey; bag; Proctor D and Goldspar; Norths, Dangers,
Hyde; 2 sets of blades; top & bottom covers; $7000; Nick Grey; 508
748-1906; 508 291-0880; trailer and dolly; MA

USA 8059; Rondar; launcher; Proctor D; Hyde or Milanes & White;
Milanes & White blades, carbon-fiber; top & bottom covers; $5500; Barry
Kuehl; 203 288-3388; 203 288-9406; Rapide combi; CT

USA 8060; Rondar; launcher; Proctor D; sailed ONLY 2 seasons; Rapide
t/d;top and bottom covers; Norths, carbon board, extras. $7000 Mike
Breault; 201-909-8644, 203-434-8298; CT. E-mail Mike at
[email protected]

CAN 8233; Parker; bags not specified; Superspar M2; 2 suits; 2 sets of
blades; top & bottom covers; $9000 Canadian; Paul Gauthier; 418
542-5988; Rapide combi; Quebec.

CAN 8442; Lindsay; bag; 2 Proctor Ds; new Norths; Lindsay blades; top &
bottom covers; $12000 Canadian; Steve Yates; 613 384-8200; Pronto
combi; Ontario.

USA 8446; Henderson; launcher; Super Spar; Henderson sails;
Lindsay/Henderson blades; top cover; $8000; Anne Henderson; 206
783-0677; trailer included; WA.



Some Boats Recently Sold
Included for Comparison Purposes 

USA 4964; ?; recently sold

CAN 5688; Rondar; launcher; good mast; good Danger sails; standard
blades; top cover; sold by Fred Grimm for $1,700 CDN to Rudy Enzmann
in Calgary, Canada.; trailer included; 5/95.

USA 6662; Parker; launcher not specified; mast not specified; old sails;
US$1000; trailer;94.

USA 6936; Lindsay; bags; Proctor D; 3 sets; Lindsay CB; US$4000; trailer
and dolly. Sold to Dave Fratantoni and Paula Sue Gilbert in Miami. 93.

USA 6987; Lindsay; bags; Proctor D; 3 suits; Lindsay CB, Waterat rudder;
top and bottom covers; US$3000; Dolly and trailer; Sold by Dave Gruver
to Ali Meller; 4/95.

USA 6987; Lindsay; bags; Proctor D; lots of sails;refinished Lindsay CB
and Waterat rudder; top and bottom covers; sold for US $5000 by Ali
Meller to Matthew Edwards. Boats joins Mid-Atlantic fleet; trailer and
dolly. Boat fixed and completely re-rigged by Waterat this spring, new
wire and lines, mostly new fittings. 6987 was 3rd at the '95 North
Americans; 7/95.

USA 7051; Lindsay, bags; 2 Proctor Ds; lots of sails; Lindsay CB; top and
bottom covers; copy of Rapide trailer and dolly; sold by Scott Smith to Ian
Torrie in Vancouver; US $4300; 6/95.

USA 7099; Lindsay; bags; Proctor D; Lindsay foils; lots of old sails; covers
not specified; US$4000; trailer; sold by the Haberlands to Charles Smith;
4/95.

USA 7094; Hamlin; US$5500

USA 7095; Hamlin; launcher/bags not specfied; lots of sails; US$5000;
dolly only

USA 7100; Lindsay; bags; Proctor D; newish Norths plus more; Lindsay
CB and rudders; top and bottom covers; trailer and dolly; Sold by Neil
Fowler to Andrew Crocker for $7000; 94.

CAN 7148; Lindsay; launcher; Proctor D; 3 sets; Norths; Lindsay ; top &
bottom covers; Rapide combi; Rick Hewitt sold to Peter Mignerey for
$6000, boat is now in Mid-Atlantic fleet; 6/95.

USA 7156; Hamlin; bags; Proctor D; sails not specified; foils not specified;
bottom cover; US$3500; Rapide combi.

USA 7201; Hamlin; launcher; Proctor D; lots; Waterat foils; US$5000;
trailer

USA 7202; Hamlin; launcher; 2 Proctor Ds; Danger; Waterat blades; top
cover; $4500; trailer not specified. Sold by ; Mark Eastham to Bruce
Smith. Boat now in Minnesota.

USA 7356 (was advertised incorrectly as 5905); '83 Ballenger, kevlar;
launcher; Ballenger mast; Norths & extra spin.; 2 CBs; top & bottom
covers; $1200; trailer included; sold by Ralph Fisher to Indiana U YC;
5/95.

USA 7572; Parker; launcher; Z-spar, old sails; trailer; sold for $400 to T
Brockenbrough in Hampton. Boat needed some TLC, but was in good
condition. Boat may have carbon fiber in the hull; 6/95.

CAN 7610; Waterat foam core; bags; Proctor D, 4 sets, 2 new, top and
bottom cover, US$3500, Rapide combi trailer.

USA 7678; Parker; bag; Proctor D; North and other sails; Lindsay CB,
Milanes & White rudder; top & bottom cover; Rapide combi; sold by Phil
Schriener to George Saunders for $2200. Boat joins Mid Atlantic Fleet.
MD. 8/95.

USA 7681; Parker; bag; Proctor D; Norths; top & bottom covers; $3000;
Henry & Barb Amthor sold within Hampton area; trailer included; 5/95.

USA 7771; Waterat; launcher; Proctor D plus spare; good spinnakers,
other sails; top and bottom covers; US$7500; Rapide trailer; Sold to Mike
Martin in LA.

USA 7772; Waterat foam core; bags; Proctor D; Norths; Waterat CB and
refinished rudder; top and (old) bottom covers; Sold by Ali Meller to
Barney Harris for $5000; Rapide dolly, NA trailer. Mostly new lines, wire,
new non skid, excellent condition. Boat stays in MD with fleet 19. 7/95.

USA 7794; Parker; bag; Proctor epsilon mast, Proctor boom; 4 complete
suits, lots of Norths; Waterat CB plus spare board; top & bottom covers;
asked $3500, sold for $2500; Dave Pryor sold to Warren Wulff in upstate
NY; trailer and dolly included; 4/95.

USA 7876; Waterat; bags; Proctor "D+"; Waterat foils; lots of North sails;
top and bottom covers; US$????; Rapide combi. Sold by Gary Bodie to
Tyler Moore; 94.

USA 7886; Kyrwood; launcher; Proctor D; 1.6 suits; standard blades; top &
bottom covers; $3000; trailer included; sold by Dennis Rowedder to Jackie
Golison in LA; 4/95.

USA 8012; Waterat; bag; Proctor D mast; New Dangers, plus more
sails;Waterat foils; top & bottom covers; Rapide combi trailer; sold by
Madhavan Thirumali to Henry Amthor in Hampton VA, for $8500; 5/95.

USA 8084; Waterat; launcher; Proctor D; lots; Waterat foils; top and
bottom covers; US$7000; trailer

USA 8266; Waterat; launcher; Proctor D; 2 sets; Waterat foils; top and
bottom covers; $10,000; Rapide combi.


Last updated by:
Ali Meller / [email protected]
Aug 15, 1995
    

    There's also a European version of this list...
    
    Doug.
    

Did anyone sail at the Hayling Island Open Meeting this weekend just gone?
I had to decorate. What a bummer.

I passed it on the way back into Chichester Harbour on Sunday afternoon in 
about 4 knots of wind.  Everyone looked quite bored!



Ian.

Test drove a newish Rodar a couple of weekends ago It was about 2-3 seasons old.

It had a Banks main, North jib and proctor D mast. It was very well rigged. The
present owner sailed it with very little rig tension up to about 8-10 knots of
wind when he just applied enough to stop the leeward shroud from flapping as the
wind speed rose. In light airs the boat had about the same speed as the others
in the race ( all older), but once the wind picked up the boat effortlessly went
away from the rest of the fleet. It was very impressive. The most noticable
thing was that the speaders were set quite along way aft, but in marginal
trapeazing conditions the rig maintained enough power to hold me out on the
wire, a problem we always used to have on other boats.

Has anyone out there got any views/tips/questions on 505 tunning?

Matthew

    There's a whole bunch of 505 stuff available on the World Wide Web at:
    http://www.paw.com/sail/int505/new.htm
    Included are tuning sheets from several sources including North Sails.
    
    I'd be interested in finding out more about "low tension" rigging
    methods, since one claim is that old boats can't hold the high
    rig tension needed to achieve competitive speed. Since my budget
    restricts me to an old boat, if it's possible to show that this theory
    is wrong I would be pretty happy. (Another question is whether the
    hull is stiff enough to keep its desired shape...presumably the
    newer cored hulls get a lot of performance from this dimension.)
    
    Doug.

    At our club there is a TWENTY YEAR OLD Parker, which beats the younger
    Rondar and Krywood boats until the wind speed increases!!!
      How does he do that ???   This oldie also has the oldest and heaviest
    crew in Scotland
                          Alan.

Its true you get them at every club.

I think it might be a combination of local knowledge, perhaps his rig is bendy
and the main is very flat. Does he adjust the rig much? Or is it just tunned
exactly for light winds.

Matthew  

    
       When I used to race Hobies, I knew a couple in the late 60's
    that used to race occationally. I have seen them in a serious blow
    sail out and without trapping  and kick every macho sob's butt.
    Their son was a National champ when he used to race. Nothing fancy,
    just make the boat perform well.
    
       If you have a boat for 15-20 years (these folks had one of the first
    dozen Hobies in New England), you get to know what it can do and how
    to make up for it's problems. 
    
       When I race nights, there are two guys who have 15 year old Catalina
    crusiers who are murder to beat. One of them has the original sails on
    it.
    
        Knowledge is a wonder thing, and the great equalizer of the sport.
    
       John

    Hobies,  I found the Hobie 16 twin trappeze
    an easy boat to jibe but when taking it appeared to stall-out,
    however after going threw the turn, you are advised to move aft
    at a rapid rate of knots or go swimming.
                                        A wet helm !!!
    

    I am on the verge of buying a 505, and one thing I'm wondering about
    is the buoyancy tanks. The tanks are under the seats between the inner
    and outer hull, and are simply air tanks--there's no foam or airbag
    inside. Given the number of holes cut in the tanks for various reasons
    (inspection ports, screw holes for fittings, compass mountings) it
    seems like there's a good chance of a leak developing. This could
    even be a pretty serious leak if, say, the jib block track were to
    pull out in a capsize.
    
    Is there a supply of something like the peanuts that are used as
    packing material that would be suitable for putting into the
    tanks? I'm not sure what the difference between "floatation foam" and
    "packing peanuts" is, but I'm willing to add 10 pounds to the weight
    of the boat if this would increase my life expectancy...
    
    Doug.

    you can buy the 2 part foam stuff, but you have to be real careful
    as it will crack the hull if you use too much. Defender has the stuff,
    or ask any boat builder in the area to sell you some, or do it for you.
    
    john

Hi

one method I have used in the past is to put in lots of empty plastic "blown up"
type moulded bottles. We get litres of coke lemonade etc in them here.

... mind you I wasn't racing it.

cheers
Pete

    According to the internet 505 mailing list, the air bags for a
    Vanguard 15 fit into the 505 tanks "perfectly".
    
    In any case, I finally bought a 505. It's #3192, a 1969 Parker. This
    is the first boat I've had that came with a name, "Cuckoo's Nest".
    
    It's in pretty good condition; the main thing that needs reconstruction
    is the bar at the top of the transom which appears to have been broken
    at one point and then "repaired" with fiberglass. I'm not sure exactly
    how to proceed on this. One possibility is to fabricate an aluminum
    tube with fittings on the end to match the mounting points. Or it could
    be wood, but in any case what's there needs to be replaced...
    
    Doug.

    The 5o5 has three seperate buoyancy tanks, not one big tank!
    I have seen boats sail ashore at a national championship with 
    a hole at water level big enough to put your foot threw.
    Yes some water may seep threw fittings, but the 5o5 suffers from
    to much buoyancy, making the hull float high on the water. 
    This can make it hard to reach the centre board and there is a
    lot of windage on the hull, helping the hull to TURTLE.
    
                                                            Al.

    I grounded my rudder, damaging my transom bar. I was able to renforce
    the bar with 'L' shaped aluminum angle bar, top and below encasing
    the damaged area then drilling and bolting. The only problem being
    rudder clearence when using an under bar rudder.
    Parker the manufacturer can supply a NEW replacement bar.
                                                              Al.z
    zz

    Do you have Parker's phone number? I'm in the U.S.
    
    Doug.
    

    Sorry, only the U.K. address ----  G.W.PARKER LTD.
                                       Horseshoe Lane,
                                       Kirton,
                                       Boston, 
                                       Lincs.
                                                  Al.z

If you live in or visit England never go to linconshire, it is a horrible & drap
place. 

A little anecdote:

When we were looking around for a new 505, we were reliable informed of a good
one in Dirbyshire (Peak District). We had heard of this boat before and it had a
good track record, so after a few phone calls to the owner we decided to buy
subject to viewing. The only problem was we had to buy a road trailer seperatly
from Parkers @ Kirton, and we also had to be in Dirbyshire (Peak district)
before 08:30 am. We set of from Southampton at about 02:00 one Sunday morning
and drove to Parkers through lovely Linconshire, (not). Picked up the road
trailer and carried on to Dirbyshire. After looking at the boat and getting to
the final money hagling stage it became apparent that the owner had mislead us
in what sails were included in the price, and taking into consideration that we
had to buy the trailer separately the price became too high. So, we left and
drove all the way back across England with the trailer, dropped it back off at
Parkers (not that they where aware of this fact) and drove home. What a shitty
time we had.

With reference to the floatation tanks question the bottles idea seems a good
one if there aren't any lateral re-informent bulkhead inside. 

If fittings are attached correctly with plenty of silicon mastic put underneath
them, then most boats will be totally watertight for many years. This can always
be done again in later years if you can get the nuts undone to get the fittings
off.

Ive got a very old Javelin (similar to a 505) that suffered from this problem.
It also leaked were the side tanks meet the hull on the inside. To get around
this problem I made up some resin pured it inside the tank and rocked the boat
up and down fore and aft so that it ran the entire lenght. 

.38  replace Linconshire with Lincolnshire

Anyone going to do the Pompey Perisher in January?

    Well done the BRITS,
                        Jeremy Robinson and big Bill Masterman won this
    years 5o5 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP at Mounts Bay Cornwall which was held
    between the 29 July and $ August.
    
    Hull-RONDAR  Mast-M2  Sails-SOBSTAD  Foils-RONDAR .
    
    Top ten results- 1 GBR
                     2 SWE
                     3 SWE
                     4 GBR
                     5 USA
                     6 SWE
                     7 GBR
                     8 GBR
                     9 USA
                    10 GBR    
    
    Forthcoming 5o5 International Events.
    
    1996 Worlds-Townsville,Queensland,Australia(April 7-18)
    1996 Europeans-Silvaplana,Switzerland      (August    )
    
                                                        Al.

Hi

Thanks for that.

I attended that Pre Worlds/Nationals the week before. The event was amazing,
such a hude turn out. The starts were a bit daunting though.

I wouldn't mind a trip to Townsville next year. We spoke to some guys who live
and sail there. 

Matthew

    Anyone here local to a supply house that has parts specifically for
    505s? Particularly Parkers? Apparently Parker hasn't had any new boats
    imported to the U.S. for about 5 years and there is no current
    source for Parker 505 specific stuff on this side of the pond right
    now. What's the situation over there?
    
    Ideally I'd like a catalog dedicated to parts for Parker boats, or
    one for 505s or one for small dinghys in general. There are several
    similar publications here, but not one with what I'm looking for...
    
    Doug. 

Anyone going to Townville Nationals or Worlds?

    I am traveling South in September to race at Hayling Island for the
    Brittish Nationals.   (fleet of 150+)
                      AL.

    Congratulations. Still too cold here in Massachusetts for fooling
    around in dinghys. I do have a mechanical problem that I need help with,
    and I think that help is going to have to come from England. Perhaps
    you can assist me?
    
    What I need is the jib furler fitting for my old Parker 505 #3192. The
    current one is so corroded there is no way it's going to work (about
    half the aluminum is gone) and it's got a big crack in it also. The
    problem is that none of the standard fittings over here have the right
    geometry to fit into the existing notch in the bow of the boat. I need
    a replacement that is very close to the old one's dimensions.
    
    This is the bearing at the bottom of the jib at the tack. It's a 2.5"
    long fitting with a fork at the top end where the sail tack fits, and a
    3/8" diameter shaft at the bottom that is pinned to the boat underneath
    the deck. There is a pulley sheave built into it that is 1" away from
    the end of the shaft. The way it works is that there is a loop of rope
    that goes all the way from the transom, through a pair of plastic tubes
    through the bulkhead and under the deck to emerge at just the right
    place so that the loop can go around the pulley. Pull one rope to furl
    and the other to unfurl.
    
    All the furlers and fitting I've see here (e.g. Harken) have forks at
    both ends. The small ones are the right length, but adding the pulley,
    and making a shaft that can replace the fork, is going to be quite a
    machining job. I would probably have better luck rebuilding the old one
    with a piece of pipe! All the furlers with pulleys expect there to be
    only one line (pull to furl, pull jib sheets to unfurl) which would be
    ok except that I've already got stuff set up for the old way, and
    replacing it would mess up the jib luff length and move the foot up off
    the deck. (Also I'd lose my nifty built-in furling setup.)
    
    So, could somebody over there on the other side of the pond please
    check out a dinghy chandlery and see if there's one available? I've
    already called up Parker and they seem to want me to go to a local boat
    store, but there ain't any over here that have them!
    
    Help!
    
    Doug.
    

    Here are the best British mail order companies-
    
    Pinnell and Bax     International tel: +44 1604 230362
                                      fax: +44 1604 23310
    
    Northampton Sailboats             tel:     01604 720500
                                      fax:     01604 791400
    
    Jack Holt                         tel: +44 081 788 9255
                                      fax: +44 081 874 3607
    

.45

See you there.

    .45   See  you there.      Is this in code???
                                                   AL.

I am replying to reply .45 

see you at Hayling Island.

    Thanks for the list. I will call them for help.
    
    Doug.
    

    last weekend I was at a regatta competing against the Laser 4000
    and dart 15 , both have the same P.Y. NUMBER as the 5o5 (now 96)
    however the darts were not in the running, being left behind. But
    the Laser, with it,s isometric kite was very much a challenge. The 
    4000 is a good easy to sail, fast boat at about half the price of the
    5o5! 
         One of the two 4000s was ahead of the 5o5 but the other was
    behind.
             AL.   (any comments on the handicap new ratings?)

    I think the 505 mailing list would be interested in your comments...
    
    Doug.
    

We sailed against about 6 4000s last winter series, they took  1st and 2nd place
amongst others. We came 3rd,but had to work bloody hard to achieve that.