Conference unifix::sailing

    Ciao,
    
    Having been 'owned' by an old 36' wooden ketch for some 15 years now I
    sympathize with your reticence. Remember the strength of the bowsprit
    has not been altered; look at some of the solid wood masts with 1/4"
    checks. However the real aim here, I believe, is to return the
    laminated spar to its water-tight integrity thus stopping rot. In other
    words: fill the gap. The old timers just used tar and linseed oil on
    their masts. I go with your friends advice of not clamping; just will
    introduce more tension and the epoxy/whatever joint will not break but
    the wood fibers will somewhere else. I would use some of West's real
    slow curing epoxy and squeege it well into the crack. If the wood is so
    dry it absorbs too much then just add some micro-balloons to thicken.
    When done you won't have any more trouble (at least from there...).
    
    Good sailing. Ed

If you really want to fix this, I would avoid squeezing
epoxy into the crack as is. You are bound to have poor
adhesion and an eventual reappearance of the symptoms.

If you can get the spar off the boat, then I would go
for a more drastic alternative. Remove the spar and ALL
its fittings, bolts, etc. Then rip right down the
opened seam on a band saw (as carefully as you can,
obviously). Sand or rasp out the areas this will expose
with poor adhesion, dirt, etc. Plane the two pieces
to a good match, and reglue the whole thing.

If you are worried that the appearance will change
because of thinning the layers, then saw on the mahogany
side of the joint, do as above, but glue in a layer or
two of veneer to restore the thickness.

If this is too terrifying, then I would let in a
dutchman. To do this, rout out a groove (say 1/2" wide)
and deep enough to bury the problem forever (maybe 3/4
to 1"). Use a guide to get a real straight, clean, job.
Carefully fit a patch (a dutchman) to the groove, and
epoxy it in. Do both sides if you have to. It will
look plenty neat (maybe even fancy). The previous point
about adequate strength still being there is likely
true, so this won't compromise strength.

Ross Faneuf

    I agree with Ross, I would not fix this by either compressing the
    laminates down or just slapping epoxy in the gap. I would, at a
    minimum, do what Ross suggests.
    
    
    Gregg; 18 laminated ribs and many more to go.

    Yikes: now I've got at least three more feasible solutions.
    
    Being an apartment dweller -- it was the boat or a downpayment on a
    house -- I have no bandsaw, drill press, jointer, etc. nor any access
    to such.  (On the other hand, if I spend the $500 on tools, I'll may get
    the sprit fixed and have the tools to boot. The other, equally possible
    eventuality, is far too dismal to consider.)
    
    The bowsprit is off the boat and all the hardware removed from the aft
    or lower half.  Gently applying a sharp stiff putty knife and narrow
    hardwood wedges, I extended the fissure midway (four feet altogether),
    and mercifully, the wood separated only along the seam.
    
    The fissure is now open up to where the spar tapers and changes from a
    square to an octagon.  What's stopping the crack, and me, from
    proceeding further is the first of three cross-pieces that support the
    pulpit.  I suspect that besides the protection the platform affords
    from the sun, the cross-pieces may be the reason the forward section
    never separated.  Each cross-piece works as a wide, inverted "U,"
    essentially clamping the forward end of the spar closed.
    
    If I remove these cross-pieces -- unbolting two bolts from each and
    contending with glue much better cured than the lamination -- my luck may 
    or may not run out with wedge and putty knife routine.  But even if I 
    succeed, plane the surfaces clean, I still suspect there is a warp or 
    twist that will guarantee no escape from the clamping excercise 
    from hell. 
    
    The "dutchman" sounds feasible, but if I understand it correctly, won't
    that still leave the middle of the spar poorly cleaned and glued?  How
    much more trouble would it be to attempt a full scarph: leave the
    forward end sealed and rip a 1/4 inch by four foot slice through the
    mahogany, clean off the spruce with a rasp, then insert and glue a
    strip of mahogony the full six inches deep?
    
    The other idea that occurs to me is to build a variation on the
    cross-pieces for the aft end of the sprit -- say, four permanent,
    double-sawn, inverted "U"s that would evenly and mechanically resist
    the wood's errant behavior.  Then a perfectly glued seam might be
    unnecessary.  (Hell, why not 25 or 30 C clamps, and I'll just wear ankle
    protectors on the foredeck?)  
    
    I appreciate all your feedback; I've still got some poking and thinking
    ahead of me.  I'm still stuck between the take-the-sucker-apart-and-
    build-for-posterity impulse and something more like a quick fix.  And,
    as you might suspect, this is only one of six priority projects. 
     
    Why did I think this would be, if not easy, at least pretty not bad? 
    Well, summer will come again.
                        
    B.

    Regardless of how to choose to puruse this quest perhaps you should
    also consider adding a couple of through-bolts at the extremities of
    this checking. I have done this to a large mast step 15 years ago and
    nothing has moved since. Likwise my also-laminated bowsprit has 3
    through bolts and no problems.
    
    Good luck, Ed

    Restraining wood that is moving because of moisture content changes is
    unlikely to work. An old quarry technique for splitting off granite
    slabs was to drive in dry wood wedges, then pour on water until it
    split the granite. The power of wood to expand with moisture is
    awesome. Id agree the 'right' repair is to saw the failed joint
    entirely apart and re-joint. The dutchmen would add no real strength,
    just a lot of work. 
    
    In more practical terms, I suspect a cleaning of the joint as much as
    possible and filling it with a low viscosity epoxy, like West, will
    seal it from water penetration, and provide all the strength necessary.
    

    If you do saw the piece entirely apart, you may wish to consider
    splining them back together as well.  Route out the inside to accept a
    3/8" thick spline and then reglue.  This may provide some additional
    strength and postpone another occurence.  Sort of the same method Norm
    uses on the New Yankee Workshop.  
    
    Brian

    One way you can do the big-time rebuild but without buying all those
    tools is to take the thing apart, then bring it to a shop who can rip
    it for you. then all you have to do is glue it back together.
    
     I agree with the previous noter who says that you have some sort of
    problem here, and that you need to find out what it is before you clamp
    things back together. Things like this just don't happen for no reason.
    
     That's why I am leary of stuffing inthe glue and clamping the parts
    together.
    
    Gregg

    If you still are in the mood for drastic action requiring tools, send
    me mail and you can come to my shop in Amesbury, Ma. where I restore
    old woody boats.  I have the tools and the epoxy.  You got much good
    advice.  Good epoxy will be stronger than the wood--adhesion is the
    issue.
    Rgds, Tom

    Trying to separate this spar with a hammer and an old Red Devil paint
    scraper has been a little like trying to move Gibraltar with a tire
    iron -- I've already had to replace the scraper's rivets. However, I've made
    it another foot or so with only cosmetic damage.  (I mean to the spar, I'm 
    no uglier, at least not yet.)  
    I was interrupted by the arrival of a batch of P-2 epoxy glue from System 
    III, ordered to repair a hatch that was broken when the boat was delivered.
    The glue worked amazingly well --  it's very slow drying, clear, requiring 
    no fillers.  If I can get the bowsprit the rest of the way, this is 
    definitely the stuff. 
    
    Tom, I may take you up on your offer in a couple weeks -- I pass through 
    Amesbury all the time.  I know I'll need help if I can't get the halves to 
    line up again once they're apart. Thanks to everyone for their help.
                            

re .11:

Epoxy with the right fillers is stronger than unfilled epoxy. This is 
especially true when your joints are not a perfect fit. For what you're
attempting to do, I'd strongly recommend using a filler in the epoxy. 

Alan

    You get more leverage separating the laminations if you can completely
    remove the sprit, open it up out to the nearest end, then grasp the ends
    and separate........
    
    
    Gregg

    Take the Sprit off and haul it to a local lumber yard. One that has a
    carpenter shop as part of the operation. They'll fix it at one tenth
    the price of any boatyard. Did that this winter with a set of spreaders
    for my mizzen that were delaminating. Cost me ten Bucks.
    Remember, boat yards think boaters have money that they are trying to
    get rid of.
    

    The bowsprit's entirely disassembled. If I had to do it over I would have 
    sawed on the dotted line.  The wood separated well, except for a few spots 
    where the softer wood splintered.  I'll dig those spots out a bit and fill 
    with epoxy. The good news is that when I tried fitting them back together, 
    there was far less warp than before.  I suspect water and sun were prying 
    the wood apart all along the top of the spar.    
    
    I called both West System and System III, and, for the record, West System 
    was far more helpful.  (When I asked System III about their 2-part linear 
    polyurethane -- the one they mention in their literature but not in their 
    catalogue? -- they admitted that it wasn't quite ready for the market.  
    Another week or two. Sounds like another industry I'm all too familiar 
    with.) Both companies said their clear glues sans filler would be strong 
    enough -- only more expensive.  West System said that since I was going to 
    coat the spar anyway, the 105 with 207 hardener would be their recommended 
    adhesive.
    
    Also found some stainless through-bolts at Jackson Marine in Kittery.
    The remaining step is the removal of the old glue and then surface
    preparation.  Because some of the tapered edges are very fragile, and
    because I want reasonably flush surfaces, I assume that an orbital sander 
    is out.  I remember the last time I held a plane -- maybe 20 years ago -- 
    I was deft as a brain surgeon with with a 15-pound maul. Is there any other
    way a klutz can evenly remove between 1/32 and 1/16 of an inch's worth of 
    glue and wood without making a mess.  Any kind of accurate, idiot-proof 
    bench-mounted power tool.  Any suggestions? Anything in your shop, Captain
    Tom?   
          
    Brian

    Palm sander with a medium to fine grit, perhaps?

    the finer the grit, the longer you have to work at screwing it up  ;>)
    
    Start with a fine. If it is taking forever, you can alway go a bit more
    course then finish it off later. Better than not understanding how
    quickly a sander will work.
    
     john

    The great bowsprit re-build is nearly complete.  I called West System 
    again and half-way through my description, the guy on the help line asked 
    if this was one of those Taiwanese bowsprits.  He gets these calls all the 
    time.  
    
    Anyway, I carefully sanded off all the resorcinol with a belt sander and 80-
    grit, then glued all the pieces back together one at a time using a
    mixture of slow-setting epoxy thickened with colloidal silica. I needed
    one clamp per foot and a few more to true up the top and the bottom here 
    and there. The hard part was getting epoxy to ooze out of the cracks
    without overclamping, but it dried slowly enough to allow a lot of 
    adjustment 
    
    On one piece I had to chisel out a foot long, 1/2 inch-deep
    section of rot; on another a long crack had to be filled.  At this
    point however, the bowsprit looks pretty strong -- a lot of the warp
    seems to have averaged out. I used the belt sander to iron out the
    remaining highs and lows.  My next step is a few coats of clear
    epoxy, some more epoxy to reinforce the bolts and hardware, and two coats 
    of West System 2-part polyurethane. 
    
    I got a welder in the Portsmouth area to make me some larger, thicker 
    backing plates to spread the load on the hardware.  I think this was one 
    of original problems, the thin backing plates -- in some cases washers
    -- dug a quarter inch into the wood and introduced cracks.  
    
    I ended up spending a lot more time and money than I planned to, but I feel
    I learned a considerable amount and will have lots of epoxy left over for
    other projects and the experience to put it to good use.  If the
    bowsprit does fail -- due to the way the wood was cut or the quality of
    the wood or some rot I missed -- I feel confident now that I could build a 
    new and better bowsprit from teak planks.  It wouldn't be cheap, but it 
    would cost less than a quarter of what I heard quoted at the local shops. 
    There's nothing like finding out what you need to know and doing it 
    yourself. My thanks to everyone for their advice.