Conference unifix::sailing

re .0:

The price you are being quoted for buying a mooring sounds suspiciously 
low. We bought our mooring equipment (a little heavier than what you're 
considering) last year, and the price for all new chain, block, float,
pennant, setting in place, and three years of maintenance was around
$1675. The prices for the individual pieces were reasonable (that is, we 
wouldn't have saved enough to make buying them from a discount source 
worthwhile and we wanted all new gear as we're going to be using our 
mooring for some years to come). It sounds like someone is offering to
sell you an existing mooring (ie, used) that is already in place. Ask.
I'd suggest getting a quote from a couple of different vendors. We
bought our mooring from Willard and Son and have them service our
mooring. Laurie Willard seems like a responsible guy. I was less than
happy with the other company from whom we had been renting. 

In Marblehead, and parts of Salem Harbor may be under Marblehead 
jurisdiction, the maintenance rules are rather strict, as are the rules 
on required mooring size. Depending on where you are, top chains must be
replaced every two or three years with US-made chain and the entire
mooring must be hauled for inspection every three years. 3/8 chain is
maybe $2 per foot. Pennants have about a three year life. Each of our
two 1" pennants is over $100. Bottom chains and block have a long life,
but not indefinite. The mooring float must be removed and replaced with
a winter spar every autumn. Complete maintenance and inspection is about
$150 per year. $45 sounds like a quick look by a diver. Mooring permits
are $5.50 per foot per year in Marblehead (probably lower everywhere
else). All in all, the annual expense of a mooring is considerable when
you include permits, chain and pennant replacements, inspections, and
float removal/reinstallation. The rental folks are making some profit,
but I don't think they're becoming fabulously wealthy. 

    
    
    	Also, if a business is renting out these blocks, they probably
    control the area- in other words, you can't just toss them in. 
    	Further, if you do buy, there's always lots of governmental-type
    rules & rulemakers. For instance, you want to drop a block in Cohasset
    or Scituate? Forget it. You wait till someone dies, plus 25+ years! 
    	This could be a note by itself- North Shore vs South Shore mooring.
    Up north, big blocks are put in and left there, down south, it's
    mushrooms which you pull if you want it operational next year.
    Arguments both ways don't change any rules. Depth has a lot to do with
    the choice; we don't have much down here. 
    	Either way, you pays out yer money and hope the chain holds!
    	From your description, the blocks sound like more up front, less
    over the years. Especially if you can dive your own. Which means you
    can also scrub the bottom whenever it needs it, not when you can cough
    up the proper bucks-
    	So what are the rules up north? Do you affiliate with a club or
    marina, or can anybody toss in a mooring?
    
    Scott_who_wears_out_pennants_MUCH_quicker

re .2:

I can only speak for Marblehead ....... you need a permit from the 
Harbormaster to put in a mooring. The waiting list is years long, and 
you must renew your request to be on the list every year. You don't need
to belong to a yacht club or anything, and the mooring companies don't
control who puts what where. Marblehead will not let you do your own
mooring inspection. The Harbormaster insists on an independent opinion.
No inspection, no permit renewal. No permit renewal either if you 
haven't paid your annual excise tax. 

Otherwise, it's a nice place (except for the odd noreaster).

  In Salem, the Harbormaster's office is very explicit about what mooring gear
you can use.
  I don't know how hard permits are to come by there, I've always rented
from Hawthore Cove Marina.  For less than $1000 a season I get: a nice mooring
well inside the harbor, a clean (relatively) bathroom, friendly neighbors
(ever notice how people will smile and wave to you on the dock, but the
moment their feet hit the parking lot they become scowling strangers?), a place
to keep my dinghy, but most of all; a secure parking lot to keep my car off
the street while I'm out cruising.  Their experiences staff have also given me
good advice and prompt service.
  As for the long waiting list for moorings in some harbors, I've heard stories
that you'll wait forever if you don't grease the right palm!

  I met a man with a Sovereign 19 on a trailer.  He said he was from Scituate
and that he waited three years on the list for a mooring.  His neighbor bought
a boat and had it swinging in the harbor the next week.  When asked how, the
neighbor said he paid $300 to bribe the Town Clerk (or maybe it was the Harbor
Master).  I do not know this man personally, maybe he is a liar.

                                 * * *

  As for your mooring at Winter Island --  most of Salem Harbor is very well
protected, but NOT Winter Island.  It's exposed to the winds from all the way
across Salem Sound.  This is not so bad during the summer months since the
prevailing winds blow out toward the sound.  However, in the fall and winter
months the wind often shifts around, a Nor'easter!  Every few years some 
boats are lost in Salem Harbor during the month of October.  These boats 
blow off Winter Island moorings and bash and crash their way through the
harbor and come to their final rest on the breakwater at Pickering Wharf.
Please do the rest of us a favor and go for extra heavy tackle.  Use of double
pennants is required in Salem Harbor.
  I understand the dinghy storage at Winter Island is pretty good, and my
friends who moor there like the area.  Also, you can camp at there and be
near your boat.  The boat launch ramp there is terrible do to its angle
relative to the oncoming waves.  I've often heard landlubbers tell stories
that dust from the coal-fired Salem Electric Plant will cover boats in the
harbor.  I've never known it to happen.

    The dust from the power plant definitely impacts Marblehead harbor when
    the winds blow right, so I'd assume the impact to Salem harbor is
    worse.  I know that if you try to bribe the M'head harbormaster all
    you'll get is ignored for the rest of your natural days.
    
    We have had new pennants every year.  This year will be an execption. 
    We can't use our mooring because we changed yacht clubs and the new one
    doesn't go out that far with its launch service!  The harbormaster
    won't help us move in the harbor further (even tho we've already lost
    one boat by being on the outermost row of moorings).  So we leave it on
    my partner's neighbor's dock.  We're not there for a month this summer
    anyway, so we'll spend the winter getting this sorted out!
    
    Dave

    Here's one mooring renter's view on why not buy:
    
    	1.  I only get to the boat on weekends.  It is comforting, maybe
    	    unjustified, that there is a marina operator kinda-sorta
    	    keeping an eye on things every day.   
        2.  In the Newburyport, the ice flows come down the river in
            the spring and cause all kinds of trouble.  They try all
            kinds of tricks to keep from loosing everything in the mud.
            All the marina operator's problem, not mine.   No diver
            to hire etc.  
        3.  The deal includes a marked place to keep my inflatable.
        4.  The deal include showers, land heads, a place to park,
            little store, ice for sale, nice people, etc.
        5.  I like the location of the mooring, nice place to sit and
            watch the world go by.
    
    If I lived in the same town as I kept my boat and had the time, I might
    consider the alternative, but I'd be sure I did it right per previous
    notes.   Good luck whatever you decide.
                                           

    I live in southern NH and keep a boat at Lake Winnespesauke.  I'd like
    to move to salt water in a couple of years.  Does anyone know what it
    takes to get a mooring in or around Portsmith, NH?  I'm told it takes
    years of waiting to get a mooring there.  Who do you contact?  The
    harbor master? How safe is this harbor?  
    
    Finally, what are people's experience with Newburyport?  In my mind,
    Newburyport is a great backup but I've seen some nasty rips running
    through the harbor/river that have always scared me?
    
    Bob

    I second Alan's comments, and also the comment about trying to bribe
    the Marblehead Harbormaster - forget it.
    
     I got a mooring dropped in the Marblehead side of Salem harbor this
    year. Right off of Stramskis. I went with Willards as well. 
    They were not the cheapest, but I
    had a real good feeling talking with Laurie. If fact, last year, since
    I just moved to the area, he saved me a lot of money by finding me a
    temp in Marblehead Harbor for the couple months left in the season. So
    even though his prices were 300 higher than the next lowest, I went
    with him. SERVICE.
    
     He charged me $1500 for equipment and service.
    
         The Marblehead Harbormasters DO have jurisdiction on the Marblehead
    side of Salem Harbor. Also, they have run an agressive campaign rooting
    out and eliminating illegally dropped moorings. Consequently, the
    harbor has a nice channel and is not nearly as crowded - it's a pleasure
    to sail in and out of there.
    
     Follow the rules. Go by the book, and everyone will take care of you.
    
        Gregg

re: .08

  The Merrimack River in Newburyport is a notorious challenge during tideflow,
but I think the Piscatiqua River in Portsmouth is much worse.  You've chosen
two truly beautiful areas for boating, and you'll soon become an expert on
sailing sideways ;-).

  My advice is: You'll need a strong engine to survive these rivers.  And
always keep your anchor ready to drop!  Nothing you've experience on Lake
Winnespesauke will have prepared you for the indifference these rivers will
have for you valuable property.  I suggest you go down to Portsmouth and get
an experienced skipper to teach you some ship-handling there.

  Also remember!  The time it takes you to get in and out of an estuary varies
greatly with the tide.  Sometimes it can take a long, long time to get home.

P.S.   While you're on the Piscatiqua, be sure to travel up to Great Bay,
what a beautiful place!

    
    	One more diddy about Winter Island specifically. Be aware that
    access to the island (well, the parking lot anyways....) closes at
    I believe 10pm. I have a friend who just plopped his Pearson 30 in 
    there a month ago and he has been caught outside the gate a couple
    of times because he arrived after hours! The dingy storage is "nice"
    there also but its quite a haul to the water with it at low tide.
    
    	About the soot from the power plant. I have been at Hawthorn since
    last Aug and have had no problem (that I can detect) so far. Unless
    there is absolutely no wind I think it all blows over to Marblehead!!!
    On the plus side, those stacks sure make finding your way home easy:*()

North of Marblehead, and south of Portsmouth:  

Moorings are available now in Gloucester Harbor by joining the Eastern
Point YC.  Annual cost is likely to be pushing $2000, but that includes
full mooring maintenance, including 3000# block with bottom chain, top
chain, float, inspection, permit and annual pennant replacement.  Plus a
refurbished turn-of-the-century clubhouse overlooking the water and Boston
skyline in the distance, with a pool, restaurant, snack bar, liquor bar,
and rooms for rent.  Best of all, it's less than 1/2 mile out around the
breakwater to some truly open water, and far less congested than that
M'head-Salem area.  Lots of shady parking, 13-hr summer launch service
with dinghies for after hours, showers, etc. 

BTW, from west or south, Gloucester is barely a longer commute than
Marblehead (sometimes less, thanks to Rt 114 through Salem), EPYC being
only ~3-4 miles from Rt 128. 

Obviously, I like the place a lot, and I know there are a couple family 
memberships open now (limited to 150 total).  If you'd like to visit, let
me know by mail; I'd be glad to meet you there and introduce you to the
year-round resident club managers. 

John.

I rent a mooring from the town of Frisco on Lake Dillion in  Colorado.  It 
includes off street parking, self service laucnh ( a couple of row boats for 30 
moorings), temporary dock space, a dumpster for trash and outhouses.  They
provide everything to the mooring bouy.  You supply the pennent.  Cost is
$300 for the season.  Don't let them see what an east coast mooring costs! ;-)

Al

	Well thanks for the many inputs.

	Additional info I have gathered on Salem Harbor is this.

	The mooring at Winter Island are installed complete for $500
	including harbor master registration. Tax is $1/foot.

	The annual checkup is $45; parts are extra.
	
	I understand from another owner that the installer (Sam Zocco) will
    	move the mooring once for free if you don't lke the neighborhood.
    
	The Winter Island annual expenses are $175 which includes 
	parking and dingy storage. However, there is no more dingy
	rack space available. The chances of getting space next spring
	are very good. I put my self on the waiting list.

	Although I can't yet appreciate the direction of the boat
	ramp to the surf, I did note it was nice and steep which
	is a plus as we have had trouble launching our 22' Catalina
	before.

	Where do the trailers go? Is there storage, or should they get brought
	back home. For a full season, I probably would bring it home.

	For the balance of this year, I'd be interested in sharing a dingy
	with some form of cost sharing. In Maine we used a common dingy
	to retrieve the sailboat, and the dingy was returned to its spot,
	never being left at the mooring. A little more inconvenient,
	but it work well and paths were seldom crossed between the users.

	I'm interested in more info on fall weather at the island. How many
	boats get lost from that side of the bay? Are double pennant lines
	an assurance against a loss?

    	The auto traffic in Salem during a work day was pretty bad, but then
    	being  from the country and a town that is just now getting its first
    	traffic light, maybe it was not so bad.
    
	Dan
    

    
    

Mooring fee: $25 per year; dinghy dock fee $10 per year

Mooring cost: Mooring complete (#3500 granite block, chains, ball, pennant) $875

Mooring service: $80 per year (winter spar, inspection, and overhaul)

Ross Faneuf

    I own my mooring in Barlows Landing, Pocasset MA.   You do have to
    service them, (large concrete block ) and put a winter stake on.
    
    One point on rental moorings, they are owned by boatyards(Burrs in
    Marion, Willards, etc) and if the parent company goes belly-up I'm
    not so sure where you stand after the sale.
    
    I second the point on following the rules on getting and maintaining
    a mooring, I would say the vast Majority of Harbormasters do not take
    kindly to bribes.   (even they are not people of high integrity, the
    chance some one will blow the whistle on them is real heavy)
    
    For reference my mooring is a 3500# block with 1" dia bottom chain
    and 1/2" to the ball with 1" pennent( 28 ft sail/8400lb displ, high
    water ~10ft)
    
    Frank