Conference unifix::sailing

    The used sail brokers often let prospective customers try out the sails
    they're interested in before paying for them.
    
    Even a hopelessly blown out chute will suffice if it's primary use is
    running and broad reaching.  It doesn't even have to be made specifically
    for a catalina 22.  Lots of old Rhodes 19, J24, Soling, Etchells chutes
    around that might do.  In fact, if you're in the EMASS area, I have an
    old chute that might be a good candidate.
    
    - gene

    Bacon Associates in Annapolis (?) MD is one of the biggest. They have a
    list of the current offerings and a ahonest description of the sails
    condition. I have both bought and sold through them and was very
    satisfied. They have a ad in th back of most sailing mags.

    re .2
    
    
    Bacon's number is 301-263-4880. They will mail you the listings if you
    give them sail sizes.
    
    Johnse
    

    I called and received some information from Bacon and Associates
    regarding used spinnakers.  Looking through the listings, I saw a large
    number of "poleless spinnakers". In the past, my knowledge of
    asymetrical spinnakers were that they were oddly shaped sails somewhere
    in between a genoa and regular spinnaker.  Now I see listings for a
    variety of shapes: cross-cut, radial head, and even a star-cut. 
    
    I'll confess my ignorance here: my indirect knowledge of asymetrical
    spinnakers was that they were betwixt and between the benefits and
    hassles of going wing-on-wing and flying a normal spinnaker.  I thought
    that they had lousy sail shape and were even more of a hassle to jibe.
    
    Obviously, things have changed - but how much?  Does anyone have
    experience with these things and if so, what sail shape/cut?
    
    I assumed that I would add a pole, uphauls, etc. but I found out this
    gear will cost about $350 which is more than I thought...
    
    Bob

    Keep in mind that with cruising pole-less chutes the tack never goes to
    windward of the forestay, limiting its down wind usage.  I can't
    believe a track, topping lift and foreguy with a pole would cost $350
    for a C 22!
    
    If you live around Boston, check out the Marine Exchange in Danvers for
    used poles, etc.  You don't need Harken track.  In fact, for a C 22
    interesting in cruising only, a fixed padeye on the mast would do fine.
    
    Get a real chute.  Ever wonder why there were so many cruising chutes
    available?
    
    Dave

 
 
 
        spinnaker parts list
        ------------------------
 
        part descrp            units          #  unit $   tot $
        -------------          -----       ----  ------   -----
        pole section           feet          13   $4.50  $58.50
        end fittings           pair           1  $70.00  $70.00
        bridle wire            feet          30   $1.00  $30.00
        nicropress                            4   $0.10   $0.40
        ss rings                              2   $1.00   $2.00
        toping lift block                     1  $10.00  $10.00
        topping lift tang                     1   $2.00   $2.00
        topping lift cleet                    1   $3.00   $3.00
        topping lift line      feet          25   $0.50  $12.50
        foreguy block                         1  $10.00  $10.00
        foreguy padeye                        1   $5.00   $5.00
        foreguy line           feet          25   $0.50  $12.50
        foreguy cleet                         1   $3.00   $3.00
        foreguy fairleads                     2   $3.00   $6.00
        turning blocks                        2  $12.00  $24.00
        sheets                 feet          88   $0.50  $44.00
        screws/rivets                        20   $0.10   $2.00
        snap shackles                         3  $20.00  $60.00
        snatch blocks                         2  $35.00  $70.00
        halyard cleet                         1   $3.00   $3.00
        halyard                feet          60   $0.50  $30.00
        halyard block                         1  $10.00  $10.00
        halyard tang                          1   $2.00   $2.00
                                                       --------
                                                        $469.90
        
       And when all the above are in place, you still need to buy the chute
       itself.
    
    - gene
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


    And another thing - you need that ring on the mast to which the pole
    attaches.  Another $10 please.
    
    - gene

    Sure, if you bought that stuff new.  Marine exchange has poles lying
    around that I'm sure would cost a lot less.  Still, as a percent of
    your boat's total cost, it's not a lot for the added enjoyment.
    
    Dave

    I called Marine Exchange the other day and asked about used poles; they
    claimed that they didn't have any, usually don't have them, and would I
    like to buy new for around $200 (pole only).
    
    Since this is really a baby boat, I was surprised by the cost. I want
    to buy good - not great - gear since I don't see keeping this boat all
    that long.  The Catalina has an extra halyard and a pad eye on the
    mast.  I'm reasoning that I need the following:
    
    	- topping lift blocks, halyard, etc.
    	- pole with end fittings, topping lift bridle, bridle for guy
    	- padeye for guy, etc
    
    Looking at West Marine's catalog, they seem to have two categories of
    Forespare poles: one for serious racers/larger boats, and one for
    "small boats" (up to 7'2").  My concern here is that the small boat
    pole is of only 1.25" tubing ($42).  The 2" tubing plus the end
    fittings and bridles runs about $120.  Is 2" tubing satifactory for a
    spinnaker with a 25' leach and 14.5' foot?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob
    

    In reference to .9, I forgot to add that I need two turning blocks and
    sheets.  Any suggestions for manufactures of turning blocks?
    
    Bob

    re .10
    
        I use harken 2" blocks on my catamaran spinnaker. I make sure the load
    strength of the blocks is greater than the sheets. 
    
    
         john

    You can save a little by not doing bridles for the topping lift and
    foreguy.  Just attach to the end of the pole.  The fittings at the end
    of the pole will accomodate a shackle for each.  Ofcourse then you are
    committed to dip pole jibing and will need a track on the mast for the
    car to slide up and down on.  Hmmm. maybe the bridle is cheaper.
    
    A two inch pole will be more than strong enough.
    
    I'm sorry about the bum steer to Marine Exchange.  I could swear they
    had poles stacked up in the garage/receiving area last time I was there
    and they did not look new!
    
    Another way to save a few bucks is to use your jib halyard as a topping
    lift.  You aren't racing, so just drop the jib before raising the
    chute.
    
    As for a foreguy, a block on the foredeck probably isn't absolutely
    necessary.  Just a fairlead eye.  We aren't talking huge frictional
    loads.  My assumption is that you'll only have the chute up in fair
    weather.  No reason to have it up when too windy if you aren't racing. 
    So you can do without the extra load factors a racing setup has to
    have.
    
    As for turning blocks, I'd use snatch blocks and put on padeyes.  You
    can always use the snatch blocks to do other things when not using the
    spinnaker.  When you move up to another boat they can go with you. 
    Good investment.  Can't have too many of those puppies!
    
    No reason at all to get all the racing goodies.  Harken blocks are
    great, but outrageously expensive.  Merriman makes good snatch blocks
    that are available through discounters.  They should be more than
    strong enough.
    
    This CAN be done cheap!
    
    Dave

For a used pole you might try Marine Speculator, now in Danvers. 

re.12:

Finding Merriman hardware may be difficult, since Merriman is no longer 
in business. Sigh.

    There is a lot to be said for Dave's low budget approach (though it
    must be a unfamiliar concept to him).
    
    I've had some success flying chutes from sailing club boats not
    equipped for it by doing the following:
    
    Use the jib halyard as the chute halyard.   Just remember to take the
    chute down on the same side you launched it from to avoid twisting the
    halyard on the forestay.
    
    For the topping lift, jam a sail tie between a sail slide and the mast
    so it's about halfway to the spreaders when the main's up and tie it
    into a loop.  Pass some spare line through this and tie to the middle
    of the pole to hold it up.
    
    For the foreguy, tie a piece of line around the base of the mast
    leading to the middle of the pole.  Adjust both topping lift and
    foreguy to suit the wind.
    
    Don't bother with turning blocks.  Use the jib cars.  Put the one on
    the pole side forward near the shrouds and the other one all the way
    back.
    
    Another sail tie around the mast held the inboard end of the pole.  
    
    This used to look strange and the owner of the club frowned on it. 
    Especially given the mismatch in size between the soling chutes and the
    Pearson 26s we were using them on.  But it speeded up the boat on those
    downwind stretches when the working jibs just didn't have enough area.
    
    - gene

    I like the suggestions about cutting down on the cost of rigging.  A
    question about .14: if you used the genoa track's blocks instead of
    turning blocks, you'd have the correct angle to the winches all set.
    It seems to me that the sheet controlling the pole would be ok as well.
    But, wouldn't the spinnaker sheet angle be pretty tight (even if I set
    the block as though it were for a 170 genny)?
    
    Regarding .13: This boat's spinnaker halyard is really the boat's jib
    halyard that is not in use owing to rolling furling on the genny.  I
    think that adding a topping lift is a good idea/investment.  But, I
    have a question here: the boat has internal halyards leading to two
    double sheave organizers, then the halyards lead to the cockpit. 
    Should the topping lift also be internal, and if so, is it possible to
    substitute the single mast foot exit block with a double mast foot exit
    block (not sure if this is the correct terminology) to accomodate the
    sheet for the topping lift (or is this a halyard)?
    
    I'd like to use the mast foot to control the foreguy and run the sheet
    to the other double sheeve organizer. I don't thing a padeye on the
    deck for the foreguy is absolutely necessary.
    
    Final question: how hard is doing your own mast and deck rigging? I've
    seen some butchered boats with either (a) padeyes/blocks in the wrong
    location and subsequently moved, (b) poorly caulked leaking fittings,
    and (c) general amateurish look.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

    You may not save anything buying a whisker pole from a mail order
    discounter.  Depending upon how long the pole is, it may be too long
    to be shipped via UPS and will have to come via truck.  That expense
    will be a very expensive surprise, far more than any discount.

    Wow, no more Merriman?  Didn't know that.  Who makes those wonderful,
    rubber sided snatch blocks nowadays?  
    
    Gene, we are the KINGS of low budget approaches!  It's all relative.
    
    Now, as for the topping lift, I hadn't considered that you'd have a
    roller furling genny that stays up.  Then you do need a topper.  If you
    want to lead it internally, fine.  No need to, though.  Remember that
    it doesn't go to the top of the mast.  If you want to lead it
    internally you will need a Harken #086 (088?) through block at the mast
    where it comes out on top and at the bottom where it comes out.  I
    wouldn't go with a double exit block.  
    
    The above mentioned Harkens are very inexpensive.  I just replaced the
    metal sheave version of this block for my topping lift.  
    
    Using genny blocks for turning blocks will not be optimal, but better
    than nothing and not too bad for downwind work.  Reaching will be a bit
    choked at the leach.
    
    Finally, don't be afraid to install deck hardware.  Try to match what
    you have so new stuff doesn't stick out too much.  Poor caulking jobs
    are reflective of the time and patience the owner spent installing the
    gear.  Proper planning will result in a much more fun boat to sail.
    Don't forget the backing plates!
    
    Dave

    
    
       I would opt for an external set-up.  A lot less to go wrong, and
    in an fix, you can easily cut the halyard to drop the head .
    
       I run my halyard down the side to a harken ckeak block. this
    then goes up to a head-knocker on the mast, but it easily could be
    routed to the back. It is always nice to be able to help lower the
    head while the crew is gathering the chute.
    
       One thing to remember is that if you use a cam  cleat device for the
    head, make sure the jaws are alum. I burned through a set of Plastic
    harkens the first windy day. 
    
       If you have a separate halyard, it makes dousing the chute easier,
    since you can put out the genny or jib to take some of the power out
    of the spinnaker. Sure makes putting it away easier for a crusing boat.
    
       For mounting hardware, it pays to look around at other boats that have
    similar shaped decks or masts. Many times the builders design trick
    mounts that would fit in a pinch on your boat, and that give that
    professional look. As for leaky masts, use those rivit caps in the 
    hole before poping the hardware in place. And finish up with a good
    silicone sealant.
    
    
       john
       One rule I have is to try to make sure any sheaves that are
    permanently mounted to the mast are of the roller bearing design. Maybe
    it's me, but if I rivit a sheave with just a stanless Steel shaft in 
    the middle, I get enough corrosion to freeze the sheave before I can
    say "Ahhhh NO, not again!". Must be from living a bad life. ;>)

    re .2
    
       I called Bacon associates early last week. They said they would 
    send me a price list. When I called back today to see if they mailed
    it, I was told the phone was disconnected.
    
       A call to another broker said several people had call them with the
    same question. Time will tell....
    
    
      john

    I had noticed that Bacon's ad was not in some of the magazines that
    I looked for it in the last few months.
    
    Bill