Conference unifix::sailing

I must admit to not favoring dogs on boats although I know that 
there are many animal lovers out there who feel compelled to bring 
their pets with them. 

There is nothing worst than having to put up with howling dogs in 
a crowded anchorage. The problem is compounded by the dog's owner 
going to shore until late hours with little concern for others. 
Other issues such as where to walk the animal present problems. I can 
thing of few things more disgusting than to have a child walk 
bare footed on the beach and trip or step into "doggy do." If you 
want opinions from those who have to endure these problems, talk 
to some of the residents in those areas where you travel with 
your boat. I've listened to several complaints from people who 
live on Cuttyhunk when they thought (incorrectly) that I had an 
animal on board.

Joe

    This dog does not howl and I make it a point to pick up after him.
    People who allow their dogs to howl at all hours either at home
    or on a boat and who leave little gifts all over the place are
    the problem - not the dogs.
    
    It's a matter of being considerate of others no matter where
    you happen to be.
    
    Thanks for your input.
    

    I don't have a dog, only because of the problems created leaving it
    home during the week. (My wife and I are both gone all day). I think
    a dog on a boat is fine, and it sounds like you are a responsible 
    owner so there should be no problem with taking it ashore.
    
    I know of a couple who headed south with their dog, taught it to use a
    screen up forward, and had absolutely no problems. 
    
    We take our cat sailing with us every weekend, and on our summer
    cruises. She is perfectly comfortable on the boat, even beating to
    windward.
    
    My two complaints are she often wants attention in the middle of the
    night when we are sailing, and I am trying to do some navigation. Bad
    enough to be tired, trying to work in red light, bracing aginst the
    chart table because the boat is heeled, and the cat decides to check
    out the chart exactly where the mark is. The other complaint is the
    damn litter box.
    
    Take your dog, it will be a whole lot happier on the boat with you than
    sitting in a kennell.

    A Lab is good and bad for sailing.  Good, because the sight of water
    won't scare it.  Bad, because of its size and the fact that it will
    want to be IN the water instead of on top of it.  I know people who
    sail a Tanzer 23 quite a bit with a huge Golden Retriever.  The dog
    loves it.  I think it's great, if the dog is happy.  My partner has a
    Greyhound, and he is not at all happy on a boat.  (thank goodness!)
    
    Dave

    We have a mixture (Beagle/Bassett) which we take with us on our sailing
    vacation every year. Thira (named after the main town of Santorini in
    the Greek Islands) never so far has caused us any problem. Refering to 
    -0.1, if you don't train your dog and don't spend the time so he can do
    what everybody (not only pets) has to do at the right place, it doesn't 
    matter if you take him with you or leave him at home.
    If the dog is old enough you can even train him to do it when you want
    him to do it. Having been a lot on Charter boats spending quite some
    time on different places I believe it would be better to leave some
    humans at home rather then pets. Pets don't leave rubish  ashore,
    they don't damage the boat. You train them and they do what you want 
    them to do.
    
    My recommendation take your dog with you as often you can. You and he
    will enjoy it.

My parents had a dog they took boating with them.  As -.2 mentionned, some
dogs can love the water and my parents' dog certainly did.  I would put netting
along your lifelines, otherwise your dog may decide he wants to go for a 
swim....and be able to.

F.

    There are three boats in my club that have dogs, all of the dogs seem
    to love the sailing.  One member in particular has his Labrador so well
    trained on the boat that I suspect that it steers while he tacks.  
    
    The only issue that see is getting the dog on and off the boat ... one
    couple that used to be members had such a hassle that they used to
    leave their Old English Sheep dog on the Wharf while they were away the
    dog hated it and took out its frustration on everyone else.
    
    Seems to me that you would be doing the dog a favour, after all that
    breed is a ships dog and the point of sailing is to take the good
    things with you and leave everything else far away behind.

    An anecdote: I once took my very old male Golden Retriever down to the
    marina in East Greenwich, R.I.  In the minute or two that I was busy
    loading the boat, my dog was doing what he did best: urinating on
    each pier post and/or cleats.  While it could be argued that I was a
    neglectful owner, it also goes without saying that you can't always
    break an old (especially male) dog of his ways.  
    
    Postscript: during that first and last sail, I watched that dog very
    carefully in case he had ideas regarding the mast and stancions...

    A couple of times a season we have a guest for the weekend 
    called Digby , a short legged black lab gun dog. Digby brings 
    his pets with him called Judith & John. Digby is on the whole a 
    better sailor than his pets and can keep his legs crossed until 
    an appropriate moment. The first occasion we entertained Digby 
    we had a few initial problems. On the Saturday we ended up 
    moored in the middle of a river and needed to take Digby ashore 
    for a run. Digby had never seen an avon with its wobbly floor. 
    eventually we got him in and off we went no problem.......The 
    following morning we had to again give him a run ashore. He 
    climbed into the dinghy  with great speed. As we neered the bank 
    he saw a black lab bitch also comming ashore so being a very 
    friendly dog he went to greet her, straight out of the dinghy 
    and started swimming to meet her in her dinghy, alas the female 
    turned her head away......We had to hose Digby off once he waded 
    ashore through the mud..........
    
    We also know a black lab bitch called Sheba who crews on a boat 
    called Saphire who used to be at the sea end of our pontoon. 
    Each time they came into their berth Sheba would dash ashore and 
    look at a piece of grass, she would do nothing else but look at 
    it and having reassured herself would return to Saphire.
    
    Dogs on board don't seem to cause a problem and we are 
    expecting to entertain Digby a couple of times this summer.
    
    Pete

re .0:

Do you keep your boat at a slip or on a mooring? We have a large (75lb), 
rather manic dog which I absolutely refuse to take sailing. We keep our
boat on a mooring and rather seldom come into a dock. I cannot envision
getting our dog into and out of our 8' fiberglass dinghy safely. I'm not
even sure getting our dog aboard from an Avon would be all that safe. I 
think taking a small/medium sized dog cruising is feasible (though I 
wouldn't), but it does pose problems. There have been many times when
we've been anchored in windy/rough weather when rowing ashore in an Avon
would be much less than safe and easy. We have some liveaboard 
acquaintances who have two cats who've been trained to use the toilet as 
a litter box. If I could train a cat the same way, I'd take a cat 
cruising. 

    We are at a mooring not too far from shore. We also have easy acces
    to the dock. We've got a fiberglass dinghy that's nice and stable.
    We figure that since he's a puppy he'll just grow up with it
    and think nothing of it. 
    That's our hope anyway, since he's part of the family for good now.
    It's going to be an interesting summer. Thanks for all of your
    mostly positive replies.
    
    kathy
    

    Well, now, we also have a yellow lab that goes with us every weekend
    that we go sailing. No problem. She loves the water, can control
    herself for at least 8 hours, and does no bark when we leave her
    onboard when we go ashore to have dinner at some restraunt.
    
    Our Shasa loves to walk around the deck and generally lays down
    at our feet in the cockpit when we are under sail. She use to walk
    around while we were sailing. However, one day when we were heeled
    over at aboout 25 degrees, she got up to walk around (her usual
    path - forward along the port deck and back along the starboard
    deck). Being heeled to starboard, walking forward along the port
    deck presented no real problems. When she turned to come back. well
    now that was indeed a different story. The first step or two were
    ok, but after that, she found our that toenails do not dig into
    fiberglass very well and she started to slide off towards to water.
    Thank gawd for toe rails. Her feet hit the rail and she bolted for
    all she was worth jumped into the cockpit and has never walked around
    the decks since, once the sails are up.
    
    I do have to mention, that when she was 6 months, I took her to
    obediance school. That in itself is the best thing any dog owner
    can do for their pet.
    
    She jumps down into the avon from the deck and when we bring her
    out to the boat on the mooring, she is able to leap from the center
    seat in the avon right up to the deck. I do help getting onto the
    boat by catching her aft end and lifting just that part. Only to
    protect the paint on the hull from toe nails.
    
    Train you dog and take it with you. they are great company
    
    Paul

    As father of the worlds BEST dog (right Dave??) named Buk, I can offer
    you my view on salty dogs. Buk is lab/golden and yes, loves the water.
    One must be a tad careful and recognize that look in his eyes when he
    really wants to go in for a swim. This is only a problem in the dingy.
    The sailboats height above the water seems to discourage him from
    thinking about jumping. He has no problem getting from dink to
    sailboat, a quick jump and he's aboard. Going the other way takes a bit
    of coaxing but is not too painful for either of us. OH yeah, I am on a
    mooring a few hundred yards from the dock area.
    On board, unless things are VERY calm I usually have him secured in
    some manner. I also have a "doggie life vest" that can be found in 
    most of the marine catalogs. I went to a generic pet store and also got
    him a doggie harness that I often keep on him while aboard. This may be
    overkill since he seems to negotiate the deck area better than a lot of
    my crew but I'm a protective father.
    I must admit that we have not been on any extended cruises and have
    never (yet) had to find areas to relieve him but we'll figure that out
    this year.
    One last thing for any other single guy sailors. If the boat doesn't
    attract the women, there's nothing like a good lookin well behaved dog
    as a personal babe magnet!!! They LOVE em!
    
    Ruff Ruff

    Re: -12 and -13
    
    How old are your dogs and how long is the jump from your dinks
    up onto the deck? Thinking about how high above the water our
    deck is, it would be too much for a puppy (although he's
    growing so fast it seems I'm always loosening his collar!),
    but perhaps when he's bigger that's the way to go. Jib is a
    lab too so I imagine he has similar jumping abilities.
    
    thanks,
    kathy
    

    I had camped (tent & motor home) for 10 years and now boated for 10
    years with a selection of dogs --- first I had just a smal poodle, then
    the poodle & an Old English Sheepdog, then the Sheepdog & a Peek-a-poo
    (small) and presently the Peek-a-poo and a Lasa Apso --------
    I HAVE ALWAYS ENJOYED THEIR COMPANY!
    
    Some folks "have" dogs vs others who "keep" pets - this is a big
    difference.
    
    At a young age a dog can be trained in many dimensions to do many
    things.
    
    Both my dogs seem to have better bladder control than I do --
    after all the need to be alone in the house all day while Patty & I
    work.      IF you leave a dog outside all day - with freedom to...
               THEN it will not acclimate to a boat.
    
    Both dogs were trained not to jump for the hell of it --
    the one can clear a 4' fence when 'playing with me' - catches a ball
    etc... ; but, also knows when to behave - like stay off the counters...
    
    		IF you train the dog to be have it'll stay aboard
              OTHERWISE a bost is no place for that particular animal
    
    Neither of the doogs is "yappy" ---- unless suprised on it's owm turf.
    Yes they will bark when you first board (or enter the house) -- it's
    part of their job -- but if I have a party they leave folks alone.
    
    		IF you have to put the dog outside every time someone comes
    		to vist -- it will never be able to handle a Marina/Anchorage
    
    The bottom line to all this is --- DOGS NEED YOUR TIME at an early age,
    just like kids -- if trained right they will acclimate to any
    environment -- if not trained right you shouldn't own a dog.
    
    (personally I'd take my dogs over many pwople I've met at anchor...)
    
    ========
    A few other things to be aware of:
    
    Dogs will dehydrate -- they need a way to ask for water.
                           (I leave a bowl out & they bring it to me)
    
    Dogs are NOT good swimmers - even Labs, Retrivers,... -----
    They swim well for a short period of time; but, it takes a lot of
    energy & they run out of energy quickly.
    I found that a life vest pays off in a couple of ways ---
    It will help keep the dog afloat if something happens
    They give you a way of grabbing the dog back from the water in an
    emergency (the Omegas have a handle)
    ** They are part of the training -- My dogs walk right up to the vests
    every Friday night -- It reminds them they are on the boat - & also 
    acts to keep chill & bugs off.
    
    SALT water is bad for the dog -- they should be rinsed if they go for a 
    swim - & better yet should be trained NOT to go for a swim.
    
    Always leave a port open if you go ashore (Dog inside the boat!)
    
    All Dogs love Dingy Rides!   & it's fun to go gunk holeing with em -
    they find the damndest things.
    
    You need a way to get a big dog onto the boat --- over 30 pounds you
    will have a hard time picking the dog up -- a swim platform is great.
    An alternative is in training -----
    when the dog is small - treat it as though it weights 150 pounds -
    NOT as a lap dog!  Get it used to being picked up & Placed - not held.
    If the dog Trusts your balance & knows its a short lift it will stay
    still --- if it doesn't trust you it'll fight your balance & be
    impossible to pick up.
    
    ======
    OK -
    	Train it
    	Love it
    	BUY A LIFE JACKET
    	& Enjoy the fun  
    
    Feel free to call if I can be of assistance,
                                                 Lou

Sailing friends from years ago had a neat trick for their dog:  They had a 
3' square piece of indoor/outdoor carpet, with a big grommet in one corner 
and an old line attached as a keeper.   Their dog was trained to go on the 
mat, and cleaning was a simple matter of tossing it overboard -- at anchor 
or underway -- and letting the sea do the work.  With today's laws, you'd 
have to dump it into a bucket till offshore, but the principle would seem 
to work just as well.  When they did deliveries or stayed with others 
aboard, they took the carpet with them, and the dog was comfortably
certain of where to do his thing. 

J.

    We have been sailing with our dog, Joe Cocker (a cocker spaniel, of
    course) for more than eight years.  He is a wonderful companion aboard
    the boat and dockside.  He's had quite extensive opportunities to
    sail; in fact, he has been to the Bahamas and back to Maine twice.
    
    He is well trained having graduated from obedience school at an early
    age.  Knowing his commands is extremely important to managing his
    safety.  My only regret is that we didn't train him how to go to
    the bathroom aboard the boat using a piece of carpet or some other
    technique when he was a puppy.  Little did we know at that time that
    we'd be traveling a long distance with him.  It was not easy to change
    his "shoreside routines" for either Joe or us.  Retraining a dog is
    difficult and stressful.  So, if you have any plans to cover long
    distances, make it easy for yourself and start while he's young.
    
    Overall, it has been an extremely positive and wonderful experience
    sailing with a dog.  He has a ton of friends along the entire east
    coast!  In fact, alot of people we met on our trips remember us as
    "the couple with the cute dog"!  Good luck!
    
    

    A guy  I  know has a Golden (fairly large), and the dog is part of
    the  Thistle's  crew. Everyone seems to have a good time, and it's
    really  wierd  to  see  this Golden retriever hiking. I don't know
    whether  he  uses  hiking  straps  or  not,  but his but is always
    outboard of the rail.

--David

    re: .14
    
    Kathy, I'm glad a good number of the responses have been fairly
    possitive. Taking a dog along can be quite enjoyable. In regards to
    what size dog and all, Buk is a 65lb. lab. He has noi problem making
    the short jump from my achilles infaltable to the deck. He does this
    while negotiating the life lines also since I have no method of
    detaching mine (yet). The notes referencing behavior are quite
    appropriate. Buk and I have always "gone places" together. He loves
    riding in the truck, used to go camping often, and is well behaved
    around people.
    
    The one drawback, fur!!! I swear the stuf has wings. Even now with the
    boat put up in my yard and cleaned last fall, I still find fur on
    board. Now either the stuff flies or he's sneaking up the 15' of ladder
    to play on board with his friends when I'm not at home....

    It is with great pleasure and pain to read this note, as that we just
    had to put our sailing canine "Scuppers" down due to illness.  As with
    the other replies I encourage you to do it--in moderation at first.
    
    Most if not all dogs enjoy people's company as much if not more than the
    great outdoors and water.  If you're stressed, the dog will be
    stressed.  Go slow, easy, and be patient.  As with the fir, be prepared
    for scratches on the brightwork.  There's no way that a dog's claws
    can be trimmed to prevent them.  
    
    As far as bathroom habits, it's been my experience that females can
    "hold it" longer than males (not marking turf, etc.)  I agree with 
    comments about sizes of dogs-the larger the more difficult,
    particularly when they get older.
    
    Do it and enjoy every moment of it.

    Well, another sailing season has ended - our first sailing with our
    dog. I want to thank everyone who encouraged me to take him along
    and offered tips on how to make it work. He was really no problem
    (especially since we taught him to use a mat up on the bow to do
    his thing). Having him along added to our enjoyment of sailing.
    
    The only negative (as someone mentioned) was the fur *everywhere*
    and a few scratches in the woodwork. If you can tolerate that,
    having a dog along is no problem.
    
    Kathy
    

	Years ago, on a Constitution tour, it was explained that the combination 
	of beam-ish winds and natural flushing action of the waves positioned
	the crew's `facilities' up front, below the sprit. Thus the term `head'.

	Now a second bowsprit, and some intense training... and voila instant
	dog head!!

Last summer we took our two large and very furry Maine Coon cats on
vacation with us. They spent a total of three weeks afloat. Breeze (as
in smokey southwest breeze -- she is most gray and cream) had been
cruising before and seems to quite enjoy it. Orion (the cat with a
constellation named after him), whom we've only had one summer, was
initially not too thrilled by the experience, but he now seems to enjoy
sailing, too. They made the overnight passage from Marblehead to
Rockland, ME, without serious complaint. They both seem to much prefer
sailing to motoring. Neither likes riding in the dinghy particularly. 

One morning the cats and I were sitting in the cockpit admiring 
the lovely Maine day. A woman on a passing boat called over, "They make
the best crew!" Indeed, they do. They both have FFDs (feline floatation
devices) and usually stay below underway. We don't allow them on deck
without a human to watch them. Orion once jumped from the deck of our
boat into the Avon dinghy -- curiosity perhaps? Cool summer nights are
much warmer with a cat or two snuggled alongside. 

I'll be taking them along again this summer (since Julie won't have 
accrued any vacation time at her new employer). 

Alan

Off the topic, but in 2259.? I gave a rough itinerary for our trip to Maine.  Let me
know if it comes even close to crossing paths with you.  

If I have two crew, plus one adult to watch Jessica, I will overnight from Cape Ann 
to the Postland LNB.  I am not ready to overnight and stand offshore all in one giant
step.

Doug