Conference unifix::sailing

    You know, I must have the wrong impression of what the recession is
    doing to the boat industry, because I was quite surprised when you
    reported that the local sailmakers could not deliver before mid-august.
    
    I find that incredible. They are so busy that they can't do it? They
    have no way to hire on more help to fill an order and keep in business?
    
    I find this astounding.
    
    Gregg
    
    

    There is a canvas shop that is pretty good by reputation and reasonable
    (again, by reputation) located in Greenwich Bay Marina in Greenwich,
    RI.  The number of the marina is (401) 884-1810.  Ask Edie (she usually
    answers the phone) the name and number of their tenant canvas shop.
    
    Dave

    Hi Roger,
    
    Coincidentally, I phoned Island Nautical recently for a dodger quote
    for a Cape Dory 25.  They estimated a 3 week delivery and the price
    was $795.- although it was mentioned that the boat show price,
    available the day I phoned but not thereafter, was $630.-.  Their
    phone number is 212-885-2295.  I've never seen their product.
    
    Thurston's of R.I. and Falmouth, Ma. also. quoted about $800.-
    installed.  Sample at show was very nice and I've enjoyed doing
    sail business with them in the past.
    
    There's another outfit in Marblehead who's name escapes me at the
    moment.  They operate the same as Island Nautical, I believe, with
    a large collection of patterns.  (I'll try and find their name
    tonight.)
    
    Best wishes with the new boat.
    
    Regards,
    
    Rick
    
    
    

    have several friends that bought from IN with good results.
    i purchased a dodger from thurston sails and am very pleased.
    the IN price seems in line for that boat.
    good luck

re .0 and .3:

Oakum Bay is the dodger maker in Marblehead. According to Practical 
Sailor, it is better to have the maker measure your boat and install the 
finished dodger. Getting a dodger right is apparently an art. We don't 
have one, but then our boat is very dry. I haven't much liked sailing 
with a dodger on other boats (I find them very awkward to get around)
but I can see why on some boats they are at times most nice to have. 

    I've had dodger made by both Oakum Bay and Island Nautical.
    
    1) Island Nautical
    
       They made a dodger for a Tartan 30.  This is a mass produced boat
       which they've made plenty of dodgers for.  The workmanship was
       very good.  The installation instructions were pretty good.  I
       had the advantage of having a sister boat nearby with an Island 
       Nautical dodger to use as a reference.  Installation time: 2hrs.
       Hint:  Install on a moderately warm day to get a tight fit of
       the material to the deck (expansion).  Delivery:  On schedule
       (7 weeks).  Price:  Boat show $600 (5 years ago).
    
    
    2) Oakum Bay
    
       I had them make a dodger for a S2 10.3.  They needed to measure the
       boat, make templates, and then fit the dodger.  The boat was in
       Marblehead, so they went to the yard, took all the measurements
       with no coordination from me.  Their workmanship was excellent.
       The fitting was done on the dock with the boat in the water (in
       Newburyport).  The installation took 2 hours (by Oakum).  Delivery:
       2 weeks late (8 weeks as opposed to 6 quoted).  Price:  $840
       (I had to pay extra for side windows, which I didn't have to with 
       Island Naut.)
    
    Both are good.  Custom=Oakum, Stock=Island Naut.
    
    Specify Sunbrella material for UV 

    Wow - virtual instantaneous response!
    
    Thank you all.
    
    Hadn't tried Thurston since boat will be in Portsmouth and Ed & crew
    like to measure/install.  However, boat is in Falmouth now (light dawns
    on Marblehead!), so worth a call.
    
    Like you, Alan, we have always gotten away without dodgers, etc., but
    then again, have always had fairly vertical companionways/cabin afts. 
    Having slept on the boat in a good storm with a choice between shutting
    off companionway or getting aft cabin soaked, dodger seems to be good
    idea.
    
    Don't particularly like idea of having to see over it even when folded
    down, but "you pays you money and you takes you choice".  Have never
    been able to sleep in either a closed cabin or one that I know for a
    fact is going to have to be bailed out in the a.m..
    
    By the way, is there ever anything like a Maine/NH rendezvous among
    Decsalts?
    
    Thank you all again.
    

re .7:

Well, there are alternative ways of keeping the rain from falling down 
the companionway if that is the main purpose of the dodger. We made a 
small tarp that ties to our traveler (mounted on the coachroof in front 
of the companionway -- another reason we don't have a dodger) and to the 
stern pulpit. It's big enough to keep out the rain in any conditions 
we'd want the companionway open in. It probably cost us less than $25.

Another marvelous device for making life comfortable below decks in hot 
and other not so nice weather is the Hella Turbo Fan. At low speed it
is quiet, draws little current (about 0.1 amp), and moves enough air to 
make sleeping even in very hot weather pleasant. We now have two of these 
wonders. They are expensive, unfortunately. But after having one for a 
summer I didn't even cringe when paying for the second one. 

I had 2 dodgers made by Oakum Bay and was pleased with their 
construction. Both of the dodgers were custom fitted to the boat to 
meet my requirements. If I were going to purchase another, I again 
would have it custom made and probably again by Oakum Bay.

Most makers use quality materials but you should at a minimum 
specify stainless steel framing instead of aluminum. The reason 
for stainless is strength. I find people "grab" the dodger 
especially if they loose their balance on board. I don't 
encourage it, but it happens.

Some of the things that I wanted customized were:

1) It was important that I be able to see over the dodger when I 
was standing. I found on many boats that the frame work for the 
dodger was directly in my line of sight when standing. That 
required me to either stand on a cushion or my toes to see what 
was in front of me.

2) I wanted my dodger to extend deep into the cockpit so that it 
offered maximum protection against the elements. A dodger that 
extends deep into the cockpit allows one to sit outside at night 
without getting wet from dampness. Note, if you have a traveler to 
contend with, you may consider relocating the bails on the boom 
so that it doesn't interfere with the dodger (I did on my Hunter 
30).

3) Window selection was also important. I've found out that side 
windows are a pain and don't recommend them. The front window 
however, should open. If I were doing it over, I would have 
the window open to the inside rather than to the outside. 
Also, the window should be held up with velcro when opened rather 
than rolled. Rolling mars the plastic and it will scratch. Note, 
if the window opens to the outside, you have to either roll it or 
place it on top of the dodger where the sun beats on it. Further, 
it won't stay put on top unless held down with something.

Hope this helps and good luck with your selection.

Joe

    I too had my dodger made at Oakum Bay in Marblehead.  Like -.1 I wanted
    the front window to open after the first season.  Oakum Bay did a recut
    with zippers and velcro but it cost me more than it would have
    originally.  Also, keep in mind who else will be sailing the boat.  I
    measured to see over the dodger when standing behind the wheel.  It
    turns out that I'm enough taller than Sue so she can neither see
    through the window or over the dodger when standing . . . it makes
    for a good excuse for her not to take the wheen when it's nasty out.

    I thought of another "local" source for you if the boat will be kept in
    the Portsmouth/Kittery area.  There is an outfit in Amesbury, Mass.
    called Hood Canvas Works (388-4071 in my Nynex phone book).  I've 
    seen some of his work and it appears to be of good quality.  A few 
    people that I know that have had work done by him were very pleased
    with the results.  
    
    If you want the Portsmouth area, how about Anson Sails?  I'm not sure 
    if they make dodgers, but it seems that they make everything else.
    
    

    Thank you all again.
    
    So far the following:
    
    Anson Sails, $800, delivery mid-August, installed.
    
    Island Nautical, $795 (715 if I order over phone - too late!), delivery
    3 weeks, aluminum frame, uninstalled.
    
    Thurston, $950 (under negotiation), stainless frame, delivery 4 wks,
    installed.
    
    Oakum Bay, unknown as yet.
    
    Hood Canvas, unknown as yet.
    
    Conversation with better half: "If we're going to spend that kind of 
    money for a boat, we're NOT going to use cheap plastic tarps ANY MORE!"  
    
    "Yes, dear."
    
    Decision already made to move boom bail, need yet to figure out how to
    deal with single dorade boxes each side of companionway.  Don't
    anticipate major problem.
    
    Leaning toward Thurston, as near the boat now, know their fine work,
    and used to play with Neil/Steve when a kid from time to time while old
    man was doing business with Ed.  Something to be said for some
    tradition.  Price still an issue, however.
    
    By the way, Alan, how about a key word for "canvas" versus generic
    "Sails"?
    
    Thank you all again.

    I'm a little late in this discussion but I'd cast another vote for
    Thurston. Have had a couple of dodgers and wheel/compass covers made
    by Neil and the service was excellent. Prices, as I vaguely remember,
    were competitive, but I was already sold on the Thurston 'style'
    to begin with. Oakum was a close second.
    
    One problem to watch out for if you go the Island Nautical production
    route using 'standard' patterns is that your deck layout may not be
    exactly the same as any other boat of the same model. When I ordered a
    dodger for my Sabre 38, Neil already had a order for the exact same
    boat, same winches, etc., both being commissioned in the same yard
    (Bend Boat Basin) at the same time, and only two or three hull numbers
    apart in the Sabre production run. The other boat was already there and
    mine was still enroute, so Neil measured the other and made two
    dodgers. Mine didn't fit, as Sabre had decided to, very slightly,
    alter the location of the turning blocks for the aft-led halyards. The
    whole front leading edge of the dodger had to be re-cut. IN won't be
    too excited to do that!
    
    To reinforce Thurston's service reputation: Later that summer, Neil
    happened to pass by my boat on a mooring in Marion. He called 
    afterwards to tell me that he didn't like the way the dodger looked, (I
    was perfectly happy), there was some sag in one of the panels. Asked 
    when the boat wasn't being used for a few days and he'd come take the
    dodger back and fix it. 
    
    I assume they treat everyone this way as I'm not a big customer,
    otherwise. Never bought a sail from them, or have any other connections
    or influence.
    
    Lastly, on price. Negotiate! Neil called a few months ago, totally out
    of the blue, tracked me down here in Maryland, just following up on old
    customer lists to see if I needed anything. They must be hurting for
    business. I wouldn't try to steal from them, you might lose the
    service, but if the price is out of whack, say so.
    
    Bet they can do it before August, too.
    
    John_R
    

    Thurston it is. (Falmouth Ma 508-540-2212)
    
    To add to other quotes:
    
    Hood Canvas, $850 basic, +$100 roll-up window, +$125 removable sides,
    1" s/s frame, installed, 3-4 wks. (508-388-4071)
    
    Oakum Bay, $875 basic, +$100 roll-up window, +$100 side windows, +$150
    removable sides, +$300 mini-bimini (awning), s/s frame, installed, 3
    wks. (617-631-8983)
    
    By the time add-ons are taken into account, Thurston comes in first for
    custom makers in terms of price, as $950 includes roll-up window and
    removable sides.  Basic assumption is that all custom makers will end
    up comparable in quality, although I am sure of that with Thurston.
    
    All quote sunbrella as standard, all quote stainless frame except IN.
    
    Other personal assessments, FWIW:
    
    Hood Canvas and Thurston most accomodating and enthusiastic over phone,
    left impression they wanted the business, and each mentioned
    specifically the desire to design/install dodger to complement shape/ 
    angles of boat (both proposed to fit/adapt frame before even starting
    canvas work).
    
    All others polite and pleased to quote, but did not really leave the
    impression that getting the job was really that important.
    
    Had I known in beginning all the various options available, I could
    have catalogued each and priced quotes accordingly.  Not being aware of
    that up front,  I had some difficulty comparing since some basic dodgers
    incude options while some don't.  Notes advice really helped. 
    
    Once again, I find the helpfulness of SailNoters incredible.  I hope my
    summary will help someone else in the future.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    R.
    
    

    If there is a beer on the line then I should tell you to steer clear of
    Newfoundland.  Not only are there no Dodger makers here but if there
    were they would be too expensive (taxes etc.)
    
    That qualifies as good information in my book ........  make mine cold!
    
    
    On a somewhat more serious note, has anyone out there made a dodger, if
    so please share some experience.  I have made frames and SS brackets
    for the cabin top, however the person that runs the sewing machine
    needs a little better plan than that. 

    Add one more.   Paul Johnson, Marine Cushion & Canvas, Water St
    Warren, RI    401-254-5494
    
    I have one of his on my Triton (20+ years old) and his recent work
    is excellent.    I think he make the best looking dodgers as he 
    considers the lines of the boat.
    
    He makes "house calls", the boat can be on a mooring and he comes
    out to measure, in most cases my friends who got dodgers from him
    never laid eyes on him, but the dodger appeared installed and
    correct on their boats.   He does frames in both stainless and
    AL.
    
    Frank

    Re .15
    
    Since you'll be coming all the way from Newfy, I'll make it two beers,
    and maybe one more for the trip home!
    
    R.
    

    Nautical Needs in Boston has a book entitled "More Boat Canvas"
    which gives very detailed instructions on designing and building
    dodgers and cockpit rap arounds.  The book is $20.80 including
    shipping.  NN address is
    
    The Bedford Bldg
    99 Bedford St
    Boston, MA 02111
    
    The book really excellent.  It describes all the variables, 
    (types of framing members, etc), and goes into great detail
    for the seamstress (seamster??) on how to lay out the patterns
    and sew the didger up.
    

re making your own:

Your basic Singer home sewing machine will have difficulty sewing dodger 
material (some other note discusses sewing machines). An industrial 
machine (expensive) is needed to do a good job.

    Another one...should be pretty competitive too.
    
    Pat Manley Custom Stitching
    Box 684
    RFD 1
    Nottingham, NH 03042
    603-679-2772
    
    By the way, she is a boat owner as well so knows the ins/outs of dodger
    construction and use.  Her boat is in Portsmouth NH.
    
    Tom
    

    IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR QUICK DELIVERY AND QUALITY INSTALLATION
    WORKMANSHIP, I WOULD AVOID MARINE CUSHION AND CANVAS, OF PORTSMOUTH RI.
    
    A DODGER ORDERED IN FEBRUARY LAST YEAR WAS INSTALLED AFTER MANY PHONE
    CALLS AND PROMISES, ON JULY 1.  THE JOB WAS NOT COMPLETED, AND WAS
    INSTALLED IN A WAY THAT PREVENTED US FROM OPENING UP THE FRONT AND
    SIDES.
    
    REPEATED PHONE CALLS AND REFERENCES TO 'CALLING LAWYERS' RESULTED IN
    PROMPT RE-INSTALLATION-- 2 WEEKS LATER!!
    
    BEST OF LUCK WITH YOURS
    JOHN
    

    Ordered custom dodger, bimini, and clear drop panels mid-March from
    Thurston Sails in R.I.  Final fitting and installation will occur next
    week.