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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

1525.0. "insulated backstay" by JUPITR::KTISTAKIS (Mike K.) Mon Jun 04 1990 16:11

    Could anyone tell me how to make an insulated back stay?
    Like what kind of insulators to get and from where? how far the
    insulators have to be added from the ends of the wire and any other info
    that you think is pertinent.I did ask a rigger how much it would
    cost( 50' lenth of 9/32 wire rope) and the answer was ....expensive
    the two insulators are costing about $ 300.00.Is he real? I have
    seen some electrical insulators In an elecrical supply store for
    peanuts.Again, maybe because there are marine insulators they have to
    cost a bundle.Whetever!  Thanx in advance.
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1525.1One sourceLEDS::WARKMon Jun 04 1990 17:276

	 Marine Exchange in Peabody has Sta-Lok insulators...  I believe they
were around $35 each for 1/4"...  I don't have their number handy, but they
have done pretty good rigging work for me...  They are also pretty helpful
if you want to do it yourself...
1525.2yup, expensiveMSCSSE::BERENSAlan BerensTue Jun 05 1990 00:3118
re .1:

Your numbers are a bit off -- according to my Marine Exchange catalog 
1/4" Sta-Lok insulators are $125 each, 9/32" are $160 each. Prices are 
similar at Coast Navigation.

re .0:

Well, the usual insulator carries a load of a few hundreds pounds at 
most. A 9/32" rigging insulator must carry a load of 10300 pounds before 
failing and must provide insulation in a salty environment. And not many 
of them are made and sold. The price doesn't seem all that unreasonable, 
especially given the cost of a mast falling down.

As to your other questions, any good marine electronics dealer can give 
you the answers.

Remember: If it's marine, it ain't cheap!
1525.3Backstay antenna installationWRKSYS::NELSENWed Jun 06 1990 17:4391
    I just installed two insulators on Halcyon for the Bermuda Race next week.
    I don't remember the brand, but his backstay is 3/8" diameter, and they
    cost almost $300 for the pair.
    
    I've done the job several times and it's not difficult.  The hardest part is
    making sure you are measuring absolutely correctly!  We double and triple 
    checked this.
    
    I designed it so that the distance from the upper insulator to the ground
    counterpoise in the stern of the boat, above which is an ICOM AH-2 antenna
    tuner, would NOT be a multiple of a half-wave length at frequencies I wanted
    to use for transmitting (receiving is not critical).
    
    Here are some of my design calculations:
    
    there are no marine frequencies (for transmitting) between 8.288 MHz and
    12.33 MHz.  If you make it so that the half-wave length is the geometric
    mean between those two you should be safe.
    
    I added a couple of other constraints:  I wanted the next harmonic (i.e., a 
    full wave length) to be also clear since it would be harder to match an
    antenna tuner there as well (but not as hard as for a single half-wave 
    resonance.)  The Marine frequencies there are 22.0 MHz and higher.  
    I also wanted to avoid the 15 mtr ham band at 21 MHz.
    
    All in all, I ended up picking a length of 51.4 feet as being equally clear
    from critical frequencies.
    
    I used the antenna formula for half wave:  492/f = half wave in free space,
    in feet.  With capacitive effects from the end, the dipole formula 
    including end effects comes to 468/f in feet. (f in Mhz).  I picked the
    worst of the two formulas for calculating the locus of the lengths that 
    have equal margins to the 'forbidden' frequency ranges.
    
    The result is that it tunes on all frequencies that I've tried from 1.8 MHz
    through 28.5MHz (ham bands) and a sampling of the maritime frequencies
    around 8.2 and 12.33.  Tuning is fast without having to do repeats.
    
    The bottom insulator was chosen to be about 6' above the deck, and an
    elaborate harness of ground counterpoise straps that bonded a 4x6 ft sheet 
    of aluminum grille, the stern pulpit, and forward to the gas tank and 
    engine, and the two toe rails that go up the side of the boat.  The center 
    of mass of the counterpoise was about 2' below the deck, which is where 
    we measured the effective half wave length from.  
    
    The ground system seems quite good, as there is only one interference effect
    that shows up:  that is in the autohelm.  I haven't been able to get rid
    of it yet with bypass capacitors and ferrite torroids.  We'll need to 
    bring a 100 MHz + scope aboard to get any further, and won't be able to
    do it before the Bermuda race next week.
    
    BTW, I'm also going on Halcyon that Rich Buchanan referred to in a previous
    note.  
    
    A note of caution on applying the insulators:  
    
    1. if it costs only $35, something must be wrong.  I'd beware.
    
    2. it helps to see how it's done once and to have some mechanical aptitude
       as well, so that you can do a correct job.  There are ways to do an
       incorrect job.  The usual advice given in literature is that you let
       a rigger do it so that he can be responsible.  We did it ourselves
       on Mistral (used in the Bermuda 1-2 race last year), and now.  On 
       Mistral's there was some confusion between metric and 9/32" size and
       we had to do some machining of the part to make it fit right.  But in
       the end, the fit was beautiful.  THe one we did for Halcyon took a 
       couple of hours and went without a hitch.
    
    3. On sawing the stay, put tape (electrical is fine) on each side of
       place you want to cut before doing the cut.  That way you won't have
       the stay becoming unravelled prior to the cut.  File burrs off the cut
       end so that the strands will move and bend properly into the fitting 
       as it is  tightened.
    
    BTW, the April or May Ham Radio magazine has an article on antenna
    lengths and ground systems as well. 
    
    The first year we used a ssb on Mistral, we put up an antenna from the
    head of the mast, down to the stern quarter separate from the backstay. 
    It was about 4' from the backstay at the bottom, and maybe about  1'
    from it at the upper insulator.   That was cheap, used nylon line and
    light insulators to support the wire, and worked well.  It's only
    problem would be the extra windage from the separate line.  It was a
    bit in-elegant.
    
    Don
    
    
    
    
    
1525.4The rigger to make itJUPITR::KTISTAKISMike K.Fri Jun 08 1990 15:413
    Thank you folks for the info.Reply .3 made my mind to have a rigger do
    it.Thank God I asked before I went and bought the indevidual items to
    do it myself. Thanks again.