Conference unifix::sailing

    There is an article comparing a variety of VHF radios (both hand held
    and the 25 watt mounted varitey) and also various VHF antennas in a
    very recent (if not the latest - January maybe) issue of Yachting.
    If you don't have access to the article, I could copy mine.
    
    One thing I recall from the article - was that one of the inexpensive
    hand helds (whose initials are R.J.) was 3 Mhz (!) off frequency at 
    elevated temp (125 degrees, I believe), while a more expensive portable
    (whose initial is I.) was right on. I'm very happy with my 3 watt
    Sea Ranger portable ($169) for use on the lake, but It isn't
    waterproof, and I now wonder how temperature stable it is.
    You get what you pay for!
    
    Bill

    I purchased one of those cute M8's. I describe it take way because that
    was the only value it had, small size. The 1 watt just didn't prove to
    have the getting out power needed, the price of the unit plus the
    special options to bring the power to 3 watt finally brought me back to
    BOAT US for a return and got a 6 watt'er. Hold on to the M11.

Why sell a high-quality, reliable VHF you already own and buy a cheap, 
lower quality, less reliable VHF? Someday your life may depend on your 
handheld working. That's why we bought an ICOM for our abandon ship kit.

>Note 1435.3                  

>Why sell a high-quality, reliable VHF you already own and buy a cheap, 
>lower quality, less reliable VHF? Someday your life may depend on your 
>handheld working. That's why we bought an ICOM for our abandon ship kit.

I hadn't intended on selling the ICOM and buying a cheaper unit.
My thinking was to get the smaller ICOM M8.  When I saw the $99 price I 
thought having three radios was better than two.

I was interested in feedback/experience regarding the SMR unit...do you 
have any. It seems .2 & .3 suggest that small is not necessary and that I 
may have a quality problem with a $99 unit making it a total waste of 
money.  

Carl

	Handhelds being in the range of $500+ here, just for interest, how
	much is the 6 W gear in the US? Could anybody tip of Santa for next 
	year..?

	H�kan

    The following handheld prices are from Defender. Sorry but I don't
    know the power ratings of most of these.
    
    King 7350       $169.95             Sitex HH100    $164.95
    King 7500       $289.95             Sitex HH150    $199.00
    Apelco VXL357   $164.95             Icom M5        $359.95
    Ray Jeff 789    $159.95             Icom M2        $299.95
    Ray Jeff 987    $219.95             Icom M11 (6W)  $379.95
                                        Icom M12       $259.95
                                        Icom M8        $289.95
    
    J_R

           Model        trans power     price
          number          watts         $ US
        West Mar Omega     6.0w        $299.00
        Sitex HH-150       4.5w        $199.00
        Stand HX220S       6.0w        $369.00
        Icom M5            5.5w        $379.00
        Icom M11           6.0w        $399.00

Since VHF range is approximately line-of-sight and since the antenna of a 
handheld is normally rather low, the practical difference between 5 watts 
and 6 watts probably isn't noticeable. 

    I looking to buy the Icom M11. Anchor Electronics was at the Boston
    Trade Center Boat Show under their NEW NAME of: American Marine
    Distributors. located at 211 Lincoln St. Hingham Ma. (617)749-6777
    They do mailorder and have some attractive prices for many different 
    brands of electronics. For example the ICOM M11 sells for $360. till 
    March 15th. Like many other(some?) electronics vendors, they have 
    little or no stock at the shows. I'm thinking of calling them ahead of 
    time to bring the unit to the Bayside Show so I can avoid the trip to 
    Hingham.
    
    /MArk
    
    
    

The following pricing is good till March 15, 1990. at American Marine
Distributors in Hingham, MA. (617) 749-6777. They do mail order.
        
           Model        trans power     price
          number          watts         $ US
        ------------      -----        -----
        Sitex HH-200       5.0w        $182.
        Sitex HH-300       5.0w        $233.
        Stand HX220S       6.0w        $335.
        Icom M5            5.0w        $335. (no longer in production)
        Icom M8            1.5w        $265.
        Icom M11           6.0w        $360.
        Apelco VXL357      3.5w        $148.
        Ray Jeff 589       5.0w        $124.
        Ray Jeff 789        ?          $149.
        Ray Jeff 987       5.0w        $194.
    

    It occurs to me that I should be able to recharge the NiCads in my
    handheld VHS directly from the ship's 12v system.  As long as the
    ship's voltage was higher that the handheld's it should charge, right?
    and if I installed a diode, it couldn't possibly discharge into the
    ships electrical system if the handheld's voltage was higher, right?
    
    If I really wanted to get fancy, I could even wire my 12v source
    from my ignition key so the handheld would only charge when the
    ignition was on, right?  And I should be able to do the same thing to
    any other rechargeable thing like dust busters, just as long as they're
    12v, right?
    
    Then howcum nobody seems to do it?
    
    :-)
    
    Adam

Unless your NiCad batteries are 12v batteries, doing what you suggest 
will have disastrous results -- the charging voltage must be only 
slightly higher than the nominal battery voltage, otherwise the charging 
current will be excessive. Connecting a low voltage NiCad to a 12v 
battery through a diode will certainly draw enough current to destroy 
the diode and may (just may) explode the NiCad.

More later,

Alan

	Most of the handheld manufacturers offer a 12v charger using a
cigarette lighter type cord...  Best bet is to buy the one the manufacturer
recommends, I would think...

    I tried it with mine last year and it seemed to work.  A cheap
    (inexpensive I mean) Sea Renger.

RE:.11 by AITG::COUTURE "Abandon shore"

> It occurs to me that I should be able to recharge the NiCads in my
> handheld VHS directly from the ship's 12v system.  
> If I really wanted to get fancy, I could even wire my 12v source from my 
> ignition key so the handheld would only charge when the ignition was on, 
> right?  And I should be able to do the same thing to any other rechargeable 
> thing like dust busters, just as long as they're 12v, right?

IT TAKES MORE THAN A DIODE.  Batteries have low effective resistance.  If
you connected a 12V (nominal) battery through a diode to a 6V (nominal) NiCad,
one of three things would happen:  

1) The diode would go bang or just smoke quietly.

2) The Nicads would explode.

3) The wires would melt.

Or maybe all of the above.  This can be done,  but is more complex than you
have stated.  Nicads can be recharged fast (tough to do correctly) or slow
(easy).  This does sound like a good idea for a handheld,  but a dustbuster??

What is needed to recharge Nicads slow is a resister to limit current to the
correct value.  It will take about 20 hours to competely recharge a dead
nicad at slow recharge,  so a key shutoff isn't too good,  unless you run 
your engine for many hours out of each day.  

I can't remember the correct charge rate for Nicads,  so if no one else posts
it,  I'll look it up.


Phil

    
    The numbers I remember are slow charge at a rate of 1/10 the normal
    cell capacity and fast charge at a rate of 1/3 the normal cell
    capacity.  For popular AA cells, the capacity is 450 mAH.  Slow
    chargers supply 45-50 mA and charge the cell in 14-16 hours.  Fast
    chargers supply 150 mA and charge cells in 4 hours.  Trickle chargers
    to which cells can supposedly be left connected indefinitely supply
    in the neighborhood of 1/30 capacity, 15 mA for AA cells. 
    
    Not all Nicads can be fast charged.  Some will self-destruct.  Those
    that can be fast charged can be destroyed by too high a charge rate
    or too long a charge.
    
    I would recommend using the manufacturer's 12V charger.  It is 
    important to follow their directions since most chargers (at least
    the inexpensive ones) are not designed to provide taper and trickle
    charges.  Leaving your handheld connected to the 12V charger would
    likely cook your Nicads.
    
    Now that I've said that, I should add that I have built chargers for
    my ham handheld and scanner that run off 12V.  However, I use them
    primarily as battery substitutes when mobile and as fast chargers for
    no more than an hour.  The circuit is basically a three-terminal
    voltage regulator set to a volt or two over what the battery requires
    and a series resistor to limit the maximum current.  You can get fancy
    and add switch-selected resistors for fast, slow, and trickle rate.
    
    Steve
    

    I am another one who has built his own charger cord for his Sea Ranger.
    
    Key parameters:
    
    	The charging jack on the battery is marked something like 12.8 v
    d.c - although the battery itself is 8.something volts. I.e. There is
    a circuit within the battery pack to deal with the current & voltage
    difference. First I measured the output of my 115 v charger and found
    it to be 12.something volts. Then I made up my 12v cable and measured
    the current when connected to a 12 v marine battery. As I recall, it
    was about 1/3 of the amperage of the capacity (in ma hours) of the
    battery. Yes, a fast charge, but certainly useable in a bind, if
    the ni-cad was flat and I needed to use the radio.
    
    There are 2 parts to the problem - voltage of the charging source
    and internal resistance of the source. As long as one has the 
    "Thevenin equivalent" (see sophomore E.E. text) of the real charger
    (same voltage and internal resistance) as the original charger, 
    it will have the same charging effect.
    
    Bill
    

    
        Need some recommendations on handheld VHF radios.   I found some
    recommendations on them but the data is a few years old.   Interested
    in experiences/preferences on some newer products.
    
    Thanks.....

ICOM has a new handheld that uses AA batteries instead of rechargeables.
It's a bit cheaper than their other models, because of no rechargeables,
but I think I like this battery scheme better! For one thing, ordinary
alkaline batteries have a higher energy density than NICAD, so you'll go
far longer on a full battery. Also, there's almost no self-discharge
for alkalines. If you're a light user, this radio should go all season on
a single set of batteries! This is a lot simpler than the rechargeable
nightmare, especially after a few years when the NICADs deteriorate and
don't want to hold a charge.

--RS

re .19:

A few handheld VHFs have an optional battery pack that uses alkaline AA
batteries (eg, the old ICOM M5 and perhaps one of the current Standard
Horizon models). Definitely a good feature. As I recall, when we bought
our M5 in 1987, it was about the only model that I could find with this
option. This option was the reason we bought the M5 as we intended it for
our liferaft/abandon ship kit (along with a bunch of spare batteries and 
a waterproof carrying case).

Were we to buy a handheld today, I would look for one capable of using 
both NiCad and alkaline batteries as well as 12v ship's power. We use our 
handheld at home year-round to get NOAA weather forecasts. Over the 
years we might spend rather a lot on alkaline batteries.

Interestingly enough, our M5 uses something less than 0.1 amp when 
scanning compared to something like 0.3 amp for our main VHF. 
Sensitivity is about the same with a masthead antenna, so we sometimes 
use the handheld for monitoring.

Alan

    I have a Standard Horizon HX230s with which I was thrilled the first
    two years I owned it.  Last summer it went totally dead three different
    times.  Each time it returned to operating condition some number of
    weeks after it died.  
    
    I returned it to Standard for repair with a detailed note about the
    nature of the problem, how it came and went three times, and the
    trouble-shooting I had done prior to returning it.  (I had borrowed a
    friend's 230s and while mine was dead I swapped my radio onto his
    battery, his battery onto my radio, swapped antennae and the problem
    stayed with my radio).  Without calling me to discuss the problem,
    Standard returned the radio to me, "No Problem Found."   I have
    absolutely no faith in this particular radio right now.
    
    While I was at the boat show in Atlantic City I got a phone number to
    use to reach the repair technicians directly, but since one of them is
    the person who returned the radio, NPF my hopes for this radio are not
    high.
    
    djc
    

    We bought a battery pack from radio Shack and a plug/wire, and load a
    set of alkaline batteries every offshore trip. It cost a total of maybe
    $2, instead of the spare battery pack that the handheld manufacturer
    quote at a ridisulous $40!
    
    

    I have had a Std 230S since May-92.  So far no problems.  But it gets
    light use.  Mainly for weather and the dingy.   I stil have the orginal
    battery.  It will power the radio for about 10 hrs on scan with light
    use.
    
    A radio that uses AA cells sounds like a good  idea.  BJ's sells a pack
    of 40 AA alkaline for $10.  I have been using them for years in severl
    radios.  
    
    When you get one.  Get or make a power cord to run the radio from the
    ship's 12v.  Also You Do it electronics in Needham has the ant 
    adapters to couple the PL239 connector to a BNC or the SMC type 
    the STD 230 uses.  The prices are much better.
    
    
    Ken Chester
                           

I've used the Apelco 510 for all of last season 
and was *very* pleased with it. It is a new 
design and all of the salesmen were cautious 
because of that. I bought it because the features 
'made sense' -- the controls are intuitive, my
fingers fall right on the controls, its USCG
approved waterproof, etc. And of course, the
price is right.

Michael Weber
"Latitude" & "Kahana"

Just an interesting story about handheld VHF's....

We were storm bound at 8.00 one evening, listening to the weather 
forecast for the next day....

Not having anything else to do, we left the VHF on channel 16 - and 
picked up just the coast guard side of a conversation....

"Station calling CoastGuard, Please repeat" etc.

--------
A boat was on the bar (i.e. the shingle bank at the estuary mouth, not 
the drinking place) at Orford Haven (East Anglia, UK). It was just 
getting dark. 
The boat on the bar had no radio, and was shouting instructions to 
another boat who did have a radio. 
The coast guard launched the inshore life boat, and asked for both 
parties to turn all navigation lights on, so that the lifeboat could 
find them. 
BOTH parties said "no navigation lights". But one person had a torch.


(Imagine the picture... one boat on a very nasty bar... lifeboat 
arriving at top speed, approaching a dark and dangerous, unlit, 
coastline..... 
Lifeboat asks coastguard to ask the boats to turn their lights on... 
Coast guard report back to lifeboat coxswain "No lights available"... 
One was understandable - wally on the bar with no lights - but the 
other one as well??).

5 minutes later....

Lifeboat arrives. Coastguard reports to the boats: "The lifeboat will 
come in and pick up people from the stranded boat, and take any 
non-injured people to the boat that is NOT stranded, where they will 
be taken to a safe landing".

We are listening and it all goes quiet....

2 minutes later.... CoastGuard reports to lifeboat "Belay that order - 
we have another plan".

It all stays quiet.....

Coastguard reports: "Have I got this right. 
One boat is stranded, and the battery has gone - hence no lights or 
radio. 
There is NO other boat involved. 
There IS also someone on the shore - who is not in any danger and 
requires no rescue - who DOES have a portable VHF and is using their 
boat name as the station name".



The next day we sailed past the bar - but at least a mile out to sea!


Isn't sailing fun....

    Is it absolutely prohibited to use a portable while standing on land
    in the U.K. the way it is here in the U.S.?
    
    Bill
    

Yes, shorebased use of Marine VHF is forbidden.

However, this is not really enforced if usage is marine related, and obviously
nobody is going to object to its use in a rescue situation.

Sailing clubs and marinas can use shorebased VHF, subject to cerain restrictions
on channels and power output.

Chris

    I returned my 230S to Standard a second time for the problem I noted
    before, the radio often powers up totally inoperative.  This time they
    replaced the main PCB and the internal litium battery.  After trying
    the radio out for the last several days, I think the problem may
    finally be resolved.
    
    djc