Conference unifix::sailing

    Never seen one, but I'd sure think there'd be something.
    Nothing so sophisticated as a flight simulator, I bet.
    Want to develop one?  I'd be game to moonlight on that
    project!

    
    re: want to develop one?
    
        sounds like it might be a good 'toy' project to learn DECWindows
        on.  In the IBMPC notes file there was a reply about a program
        named 'Regatta!', but there wasn't much information about it.
        if I get much beyond the what-if stage, I'll let you know.
    
        /Jim
    

    I have used an older version of the SailTech sailing simulator.  After
    using it I am not sure that I would lay out $50 of my own money for it. 
    The problem from my point of view is that you get no real feel for
    sailing.  Also I am against copy protected software as a general rule.

    If you are looking for a simulator that gives you a lot of information
    to base racing decisions on then it might be OK.  If you are a small
    boat sailor who only has a windex and the feel of the boat to sail by
    it is not very helpful.  Also the version I tested does nothing to help
    with starting tactics.  For me this is one of my weakest areas. 
    Finally, it does not prevent you from cheating, you can run over
    another boat and nothing happens.  Newer versions might address this
    issue.

    I hope to get a chance to try the other simulator in the future to see
    how it compares.
    
    Forrest
    Ps.  If you want to work strictly on tactical descsion making based on
         instruments data it might be worth it.

    There is another simulator out by Mindscape, I believe it is called
    Americas Cup.  I had bought it for a friend of mine, so I don't
    have the documentation at home...But from what I remember...It is
    like sailing a dingy, you have one sail and a centerboard.  It does
    take into account the current and leeway, also you race against
    the computers boat (which is the previous best race) or you can
    race against another player by hooking together the computers. 
    There is 6 or 7 different courses, and you have to win all of them
    to compete for the Americas Cup.  
    
    Some of the features include positioning for the start, a speed
    indicator, and a corse and fine adjustment for the triming of the sail
    and rudder.  The graphics were pretty good...but I would have liked to
    play it on a color monitor. 
    
    I'll try to play it again to see if I had missed anything...
    
    Dan
    

    
    There is one called Twelve Meter Challenge, it's been around about
    a year.  You can pick crew members, tune the boat, then race against
    a couple of different competitors. Top half of screen toggles to
    display competitor, bird's eye view of course, etc, bottom half of
    screen shows instruments, wind, sail inventory, etc.
    
    I think you can only sail against the computer, not another human.
    And match races only.
    
    It runs on a PC, I remember the big knock was the crummy graphics (CGA
    graphics, boat looks like a cartoon boat) and the price, over 100.00.
    
    There are some packages for the Macintosh, too but I can't remember
    names. I'll check into it.
    
    Jeff 

    I have a simulator called 'Match Race Challenge-2' which runs on the
    IBM PC and the Macintosh.
    You race against one other boat around a triangular course.
    You have various options including type of boat (12-metre, J24 etc),
    whether you want pre-race manouvers, whether you want
    lake or sea racing, and the degree of difficulty (this is speed of 
    simulation and nastiness of wind shifts).
    
    I have no experience of racing and it seemed that the crew of the
    opposing boat always had a great deal of experience. They always
    crossed to starting line exactly on time. Another problem was that
    my wind direction indicator is rendered with rather crude computer
    graphics, while the opposition seems to have perfect understanding
    of every windshift! Only once did I get in front and enjoy dishing
    out the bad air.
    
    The controls seem rather few. There is degree of luff (spilling air
    to reduce heel), sail camber and pointing angle.
    
    The simulator is created by Dennis Posey. See SAIL Nov 1989 p15
    for the latest offerings which seem more advanced than my version.
    They include ten boat fleet racing and also a simulator for
    practicing docking, man overboard etc.
    Worth the $50.
    
    Mike

It might be a bit of a reach, but with all the capabilities of the "Flight"
simulator, it seems possible to construct a craft which operates in the Flight
environment but with the behavior of a sailing vessels. Some of the features of
Flight which may make a sailing vessel possible are:

1. Ability to design your own geometry of the craft including articulated parts
   ( the rudder, the boom, etc.)
.
2. Three axis rotation of the craft and craft motion through 3D space. May 
   want to greatly restrict vertical motion !

3. Simulates forces related to movement through a fluid medium. I'm not sure
   how this is accomplished, but one can hope that some control parameters are
   available.

Some folks have used Flight to produce land vehicles and other interesting
objects. Perhaps a multi-user, multi-vessel.....sailing simulator is in easy
reach. The question is sure to get a dialog going in the Flight conference.

Jerry

Hello.

I'd like to offer a brief review of the Advanced Racing Simulator
program sold by Posey Yacht Design. I have no commercial or other
connection with Posey.

My son talked me into purchasing the Macintosh version of this
package. It cost about $55 at West Marine in Braintree, Mass. It comes
on a 3.5" floppy and has an instruction manual and a flyer
describing late updates. There's a version for the PC also.

On the Mac there's no installation procedure, you just run it from
the floppy. It works fine on my SE/30 and on my PowerMac 6200. I was
unable to copy the files to my hard disk, and a phone call to the
vendor indicates that I have a bad floppy. He's going to send me
a new one and I'll also get an updated version of the program.

The program allows you to choose from several boats, including the
Laser, the 505, and several other dinghys and keelboats. You can
choose a bunch of options regarding the weather and race circuit.
Also stuff like difficulty level and simulation speed can be adjusted.

The normal race starts with a fleet of 4-10 boats all luffing just
behind the line at 5 minutes, while you're on the line headed upwind.
First you have to get back to a decent position; the other boats do
the usual stuff to baulk you. You steer with the mouse. If you break
a rule the program tells you so and your performance
is reduced for a period of time. (No 360s or 720s are needed.)

After the start you select "close hauled mode" and the boat steers
itself on a close hauled tack while you adjust the many rig options.
The rig options depend on the boat and are fairly complete. The 505 has
outhaul, luff, traveller, sheet, jibsheet, vang, and hiking controls,
plus you can select a number of 2 degree course changes between pinch
and foot all while the steering is done by the computer. If you want
to you can take over the steering at any time, like when you get
close to somebody else or near a mark. You can tell whether you're
luffing or not by looking at the sail or by a readout.

After you run over the windward mark :*) you set the spinnaker and
steer downwind. All the other controls are still active. An internal
VPP is used to generate your performance numbers and it seems
pretty accurate. Lots of heel reduces speed and induces helm bias.
Moving the crew forward and back changes speed. You can experiment
and extract the polar info.

During all this the weather changes including wind speed and direction
as well as tide. There's a chart, a "3d" view and a "helicopter" view,
a boatspeed and compass and other info displayed continuously. The
views are simplified but moderately realistic.

By setting the difficulty options to the mid-range point I find that I do
about as well as I do in a real race (reasonable mid-fleet speed, lots of
stupid mistakes at the marks). The thing that impressed me is that
after an hour or so of playing with it, the mistakes I was making
were the same as the ones I make in real life, indicating that the
simulator is not "getting in the way". Hopefully by working on this
this winter I'll be able to reduce the number of stupid mistakes
I make in real life.


I'm glad my kid talked me into this...

Doug.
no-505-yet-but-getting-closer

    Posey Yacht phone number: 203-345-2685.
    
    Doug.

    re .8 .9
    
       I have had the Posey software for 2 years. It's good, and makes a
    great way to kill time on a highnote when flying overseas ;>)  .
    
       A MUCH better one is SAIL 95. This puppy is designed by the guy
    who wrote the F117 simulator software for the US Air Force. It is a 
    killer application that takes 30 minutes just to link the images at
    install time and 3-4 minutes to load into memory on my DX33. But it
    blows away everything else. And if you have a multimedia setup, you
    can hear the water slapping against the hull as you gain speed and
    the sails luffing. You can autopilot the trimming, the driving or
    the tactics at any time (ie you screw up bigtime). The boats are
    real 3d, the posey images are more of a line drawing image.
    
        Both are like racing  (make 1 little mistake and it's
    curtains....), but the sail 95 is bit more fun, while the posey
    allows more tailoring of the software. Sail 95 needs a 486 dx and
    8mb minimum. It loves Pentiums and lots of memory, so if you are
    looking for a reason to upgrade at christmas......
    
       john