Conference unifix::sailing

    How much work do you want to do?  My suggestion, if it is important
    enough to you, will require some amount of work.
    
    First clean the oil out of it with teak cleaner (I know this will get a
    lot of response).  If I knew any other way to get it out I'd recommend
    it.  This will take multiple applications and rinsings.  Wait till a
    warm, sunny day.
    
    Second, wait until dry and lightly sand.  Clean with a tack cloth.
    
    Third, apply by brush clear All-Grip.  We added non-slip micro balloons
    to ours to improve footing don below.  The clear is available in high
    gloss or matte.  The gloss looks great and the non-skid dulls it just
    enough.
    
    The result is a very hard finish that will put up with lots of abuse
    and look good.  The boards must be removed from the boat for this
    project, and make sure you have plenty of ventilation when applying the
    All-Grip. Do it outside.
    
    Dave

re .0 and .1:

Varnished cabin soles are lovely, but ....... they are so slippery when wet 
I adamently refuse to varnish ours. Our teak and holly sole is scrubbed 
with soapy water occasionally and oiled at most once a year. After ten 
years it looks a little grubby, but nobody slips. And this is, to me, very 
important when bouncing around in a rough sea. 

    RE: .2
    That's why we put the non skid particles in.  In my opinion much better
    than a bare wood surface, especially when wet.  The only disadvantage
    we've found is that it doesnt feel as good to bare feet (not that you
    should ever have bare feet except when going to and from the head in
    the middle of the night).
    
    Dave

    I have a very thin teak &  holly sole in my cabin which in encapulated
    in fiberglass resin. It seems to be holding up fairly well, but  the
    boat is only 2 years old. It is very slippery when wet!
    Q: Why no bare feet? The only time I were shoes on a boat is when its
    too cold, otherwise they are the first thing to come off when I get
    onboard.
    
    I like the microballon non-skid idea, where can you purchace them? I
    need to refinish my rubber dingy's wooden floor.
    
                                             Walt
      

re .4:

Why no bare feet? Only a powerboater would have to ask. Sailboats have
many fittings strategically and randomly scattered around the deck.
Without shoes you'll sooner rather than later break one or more toes
when you inadvertently bang your foot into one. Dave has it right. 
Always wear shoes on deck.

re .3:

If the nonskid additive you used is anything like the stuff added to the
Awlgrip with which our deck was painted, the result is excellent
sandpaper-like nonskid that is very hard to clean. 

    We put the nonskid on with about half the density (or less) than we
    would use on a deck.  It remains invisible.  In the plastice jar it
    looks like a dense flour but mixes clear in the Awlgrip.  At least ours
    did.  Brown's Yacht Yard sold us our materials.  They're up in
    Gloucester.  Good prices on that kind of stuff.
    
    As to shoes, we finally asked one guy not to sail with us anymore
    because he had a way of not having his shoes on halfway through a race. 
    Claimed that's how he sailed in the BVI's.  Told him to go back to the
    BVI's. I could never concentrate because I was worried when he was
    going to jam his toes.  Smart sailors just have to live without tans on
    their feet.
    
    Dave
    
    PS  If you insist on tanned feet, there are sandals with velcro straps
    and oversized soles on the front of your toes that act like bumpers. 
    They have the Sperry sole too.

    RE. 1:
    Dave,I understand thru this file that you are foremost a racer.
    Therefore I assume that you and your cabin floor would be generally
    more wet (no punt intended) than a cruiser's.And if you say your
    floor is not slippery and looks good after the application of the
    All-Grip and micro balloons I think I would like to do it too.
    Could you please,if you can,post the P/N of these items,from any
    catalog so I don't get the wrong thing.By the way,instead of non-
    slip micro balloons could you have used fine Silica sand ? I did
    my deck using it in marine paint and I have plenty left.
                                                              
    
    

    I don't have any catalogs that list Awlgrip.  However, I know we just
    got the clear with the catalyst.  A quart did the whole job, two coats.
    The idea of silica sand might work as well, just dont use much or the
    finish will be cloudy and you will never be able to change it.  
    
    For the first coat use far less nonskid than you think you need and see
    how it turns out.  You can always add more the next coat.
    
    A call to Brown's Yacht Yard (508) 281 3200 store will provide you with
    all you need. 
    
    Dave

>>>  By the way,instead of non-slip micro balloons could you have used 
>>>  fine Silica sand ? 

It'll make a good non-skid, but microballoons have at least one major 
advantage -- you can *much* more easily sand them off if you change your
mind, or if you need to take it down to start over now or in the future.

J.

    Walt, I have a videotape taken on our last trip in the islands of a
    crew member preforming surgery (with my swiss army knife) on his 
    pPartly detached big toenail. While walking back to the cockpit from
    the foredeck he was knocked off balance by a wave and tried to drop
    kick a stanchon  off the deck. He believes in foot protection!
    Steve

    Anyone know what the little white stripe between the teak strips in the
    cabin floor is made of and where I can get it?
    
    I had a floor plank crack last year, so I ripped a peice of teak to 
    size, screwed it in, and planed it to spec. but it is missing that 
    little white line and I'd like to fix it.
    
      thanks for any advice
    
       john (who is getting picky in his old age..)

Cabin soles are traditionally teak and holly. Whether or not the white 
strips in your cabin sole are really holly or not is anyone's guess. 
I don't know where to get holly. You'd probably have to go to a
speciality lumber company -- see ads in WoodenBoat, Fine Woodworking,
etc. Many/most cabin soles are teak and (maybe) holly veneer these days.
Solid teak soles are both rather heavy and rather expensive, though they 
are quite elegant.

Alan

    re.12
    
    well, the floors are strips of 3/4 inch teak. the stripes are about
    1/8 inch wide and look like a veneer (very very thin). Oh well, guess
    it's gonna stay that way as I got much bigger projects to tackle first.
    
    thanks Alan
    
    john

    The holly is added to absorb any fluctuations in the teak due to
    moisture, etc. (In the old'en days, I think tar was used?)   I 
    (many years ago!) put a 3/8 solid teak and holly sole down, 3 1/2 " 
    teak, 1/2 " holly, created by a specialty lumber co., and had it 
    buckle after the first race when a wet spinnaker soaked
    the sole!  I later sealed both sides and relayed the sole with much
    better results.  I think the key was that new teak is vary susceptible
    to expansion.  I would suggest some drying to remove excess moisture
    and then sealing. Notice that modern soles are teak and holly veneer,
    very thin, with a substatial plywood base.   This avoids any of the
    above expansion problems.  

re .14:

The trouble is, he says with a smile, is that experience doesn't always 
teach the same thing to everyone.

True, the teak and holly veneer plywood soles are probably less troubled 
by expansion problems, but they are very prone to damage since the 
veneer is so thin. Our first boat had a veneer plywood sole, and after 
three years there were several places where the veneer was noticeably 
chipped and broken. Rather difficult to repair well. Plus, since the 
veneer is so thin, you can't sand it much when refinishing it.

Our present boat has a thick, solid teak and holly sole. The odd ding is 
hardly noticeable, and after some 14 summers of not always careful use, 
it stills looks nice (better than the plywood after three years) and
there have been no expansion or cracking problems at all, perhaps 
because it is both glued and screwed to a strong fiberglass sub-sole.
Our sole is not varnished, by the way. Varnish is too slippery to be
safe, in my opinion, when wet. 

I suspect that the most significant reason for using veneered plywood 
for the cabin sole is cost saving. In 1979 the solid teak and holly sole 
on our Valiant 32 was a $3000 option. Oddly enough, boats delivered on 
the West Coast almost all had non-skid fiberglass soles (most unattractive, 
my thrifty significant other informed me after her visit to the
factory). Boats delivered on the East Coast almost all had the teak and
holly soles. We don't regret having spent the money at all. 

Alan

    
    
    
    I agree with AB.   However, on my C&C that has been raced an average
    of 45 races per year(!) (remember, we're down south!), Our sole is 13
    years old and looks almost new.   The occaisional winch handle falling 6
    feet takes its' toll!  The sole is refinished ever threeyears or so
    with VERITHANE (original formula, not the new "fast drying").   It is
    slippery for a breif period, but becomes very manageable after a little
    use.   Verathane is not water proof, so will let water into the wood if
    left wet.   This is the covering recommended by Rich Worstell, owner of
    Valient Yachts! The very thin teak veneer is a pain to sand.   Care is
    required!  (Belt sanders are a no-no!).
    
    By the way, the valient 40 and 47 soles of the early years (and now, too, I
    think), had a 1/8 or 1/4 in teak veneer over treated 5/8(?-or 3/4) plywood
    for the most substatial flooring I have ever seen. These were easily
    refinished without the problems AB mentioned, but expensive to build.