Conference unifix::sailing

    You are asking a religious question here.    Don't be surprised
    if you get as many suggestions as there are wooden boat owners in
    here.   
    
    Since you aren't very specific in what you ask it's hard to say much.
    My own advice is to pick a vendor you are comfortable with in terms
    of price, quality, and availability.   Then stick with them from
    sealer to topcoat and do everything they say.
    
    Many (maybe all) marine paints recommend house brand thinners. 
    It's tempting to cheat here.  Don't!    The paints I've used are
    sometimes tricky to apply.   You aren't going to save a lot by cheating
    and you could be buying a heap of trouble.   The only area I diverge
    from recommendations is with a product called Penetrol.   
    
    This is a paint additive which gives it better leveling and adhering
    qualities.   It's about half the price of paint and stretches the
    paint considerably.   It also seems to give a longer 'pot life'.

    Oh yes, carry lots of money to the store.   Buying marine paint
    is like buying liquid silver.    
        

    
    RE: .0 
    
    	Could you please not use all CAPS it is very hard to read.  The
    converntion is all caps it taken for shouting.
    
    RE: .1
    
    	Boy are your correct about religion.  I recently got dressed down
    by a friend who is a purist.  I suggested that I could see nothing
    wrong with using epoxy resin to fill the grain on teak and then
    varnishing over it.  I have done the same thing on oak rub rails. They
    tolerated a lot more abuse than plain varnish.  They also we very
    simple to strip down and revanish than just pure vanish.
    
    	Some notes you might want to look at 93, 645, 1014, 117 these are
    about painting.  Other notes of interest are 663 and 779 they are
    general wooden boat topics.  Finally look back through old issues of
    Woodeb Boat magazine.  About 18 months back they started a series of
    articles on varnishing.  Finally look at the book I recommended in
    boating notes file.
    
    
    Forrest

    My topsides are done with Petit products.   The final coat is Easypoxy.
    While I love the finish obtained, this product is really touchy
    to apply.   It seems to get tacky within minutes, then stay that
    way for 12+ hours.   It can run long after you leave an area and
    it does so at a consistency that can't be brushed out.
    
    Does anyone have similar experience with Easypoxy?   How about other
    types?   I endure the application problems because the results are
    spectacular and very durable but arrrrrgh.......

    Are you using the proscribed thining agent?
    
    If so, are you using enough? or
    
    are you trying to get too much paint on in one coat?
    
    I have been guilty of both sins in the past
    Don

    re the Easypoxy
    
    Yea.  Sometimes it never dries, especially if it has run.  Seems
    to work best applied VERY thin in very dry conditions.  Heat lamps
    and hair dryers help if the area being painted is not too large.
    Levels perfectly, but, given its drying time, it should.  Even with
    a lot of drying time in proper conditions, the finish isn't quite
    as durable as some other paints.
    
    For one part paints, I'm partial to Interlux Interpoly.  Better
    drying characteristics than Easypoxy with better gloss and hardness.
    But for a wooden boat, the better part of valor may to go with a
    semi-gloss paint unless the topsides have been faired to a T.
    Otherwise every plank, seem, and sanding whorl will be visible.
    It's a good idea to assess the quality of the prime job with critical
    eye.  No matter how smooth it looks, the gloss coat will bring out
    all the spots that were missed.
    
    - gene

    Hello Newell_Do
    
    Where you keeping your boat?
    
    Don

    re: Petit thinner
    
    Yes I'm using the Petit thinner and yes I'm using very thin coats.
    It took me a while to get 'thin enough'.   Even with that it still
    behaves badly (at least for me).   Any protusion or depression,
    like a decorative groove or molding, will pull off enough 'extra'
    to make a run 30 minutes later.
    
    I've learned to live with it but it still aggravates the hell out
    of me.   One trick that seemed to make a big difference is to use
    a 2" brush no matter what you are painting.   Anything bigger picks
    up too much paint.
    
    I did my dink in the spring on a damp 50ish day, big mistake!
    It never dried in some places so I had to remove it with thinner
    (the following day) and start over. Sighhhh.
        

Hmmm, if I ever own a wooden boat again, one larger than fits in the 
basement (you can put up with *any*thing under controlled conditions and 
only a small piece to do), I think I'll follow Pete Culler's dictum:

Paint it white.  Only color a yacht should be.  Use flat white oil-base 
house paint.  Flat white is unparalleled at hiding surface irregularities.
Sure it only lasts one season, but it's utterly simple to remove (just a
quick pass with sandpaper is all it takes) and easier to apply. 
Mid-season touch-ups really don't require anything more than swinging the
brush over the side.  And the price is as right as it gets. 

Y'know...makes some sense doesn't it?  

J.

    My fiberglass boat's awlgrip paint job needs renewing.  Multiple
    seasons of dings and collisions have left me with more repairs than
    original paint job.
    
    I'm considering acquiring a 4-5 hp compressor to run a dual action
    sander.  Awlgrip is brutal to sand off and it seems that something
    more potent than my Makita finish sander will be needed to remove
    30 ft of topsides and deck's worth.  I've used the Makita on small
    repairs and it takes a long time to remove paint even with frequent
    paper changes.
    
    Will the compressor and sander be worth the bucks.  I'm estimating
    about $300 or so used.
    
    - gene

re -.1:

Yes, a random orbit air-powered sander is THE way to go. My 2hp single stage
compressor just barely drives my Chicago Pneumatic sander. A 3hp (or greater)
single stage compressor would be better. For safety's sake, get a ASME
approved tank (20 gallons would be good). Most compressors this size use 220
volts -- running the compressor on 120 volts would trip a 15A breaker. Sears
(please, no nasty comments from you serious tool owners) has a 3hp compressor
with a 20 gallon ASME tank for $350. Their air sander (about $50) is a
Taiwanese clone of my made-in-Japan Chicago Pneumatic (about $80). Plan on
spending $100 or more on sandpaper. A disc is good for two or three minutes of
sanding. I've done my boat's bottom twice now without any problem other than
operator fatigue. You should be able to get a very fair surface free of swirl 
marks. 

However, it is still a LOT of work.

Alan

re .9:

I hope you're not thinking about spraying the Awlgrip -- it is very toxic when 
sprayed and a special respirator is required.

    re .10
    
    Only 2 hp?  That's less than I would have thought.  My Sear's catalog
    lists the minimum air requirement for any of the sanding tools as
    about 9 SCFM at 90 psi.  That's about the maximum output of a 5
    hp single stage compressor.  I've  spoken to several compressor owners
    who have machines ranging from 2 - 10 hp, the latter being a three
    phase, 3 v-belt unit from a body shop.  The surprising comment from
    all of them was that their machines were just barely enough to drive
    the sanders.  I guess that's more an indication of how difficult
    paint removal is rather a comment on the adequacy of the equipment.
    I'm not looking forward to the job.
    
    re .11  I haven't decided on what the finish coat will be.  It's
    not likely to be Awl-grip.  Nice gloss but too brittle and too thin
    to buff out when there's a minor ding.  If I go the polu-U route,
    I'll probably do the roll and tip trick to avoid poisoning myself
    and the rest of the neighborhood.  Over the winter I'm going to
    visit some auto body supply places to see what the latest and greatest
    in paint technology is.  Anyone have any preferences?
    
    - gene

    Imron by Dupont is more flexible than Awlgrip and less expensive too.
    Anybody familiar with autobody repair can spray it for you and will for
    a charge much less than working with Awlgrip.
    
    BTW, thanks for the E22 info!
    
    Dave

re .12:

Not all air tools of a given type (eg, random orbit sanders) use the
same amount of air at the same pressure. Big production tools (such as
might be used by an autobody shop) will use a greater volume of air at
a higher pressure. My Chicago Pneumatic sander (model CP864) uses about 
5 cfm at 75 psi. This is within the capability of a 2hp single-stage
compressor as long as the air hose is short to minimize air pressure drop.
Smaller tools are also lighter and therefore less tiring to use. A fresh
sanding disc on an air sander spinning at 10 000 rpm will remove Awlgrip with
surprising rapidity. 

Practical Sailor recently had a longish article about hi-tech paints. There 
are differences between Awlgrip and Imron and others. Each has virtues and 
drawbacks. 

    Can you supply a copy of the Practical Sailor article?
    
    - gene