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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

1338.0. "forestay replacement/magnaflux?" by FRAGIL::MCBRIDE () Wed Sep 06 1989 17:01

    Well, I had my first major repair expense experience this weekend
    and am curious just how badly we faired.  Two weeks ago my partner's
    son had the dubious pleasure of having the furling gear part on
    him while out sailing with his friends.  It was one of those things
    that just happen and could have at any time prior to that.  I guess
    he was the lucky one.  He was very fortunate not to have lost the
    rig.  They were also fortunate not to have had any serious injuries 
    or additional damage either as the drum went whipping into the
    cockpit.  At any rate, we elected to replace the rig with a wire
    forestay minus furling gear to get us through the rest of the season.  
    The bill? $750.00 which $450.00 was for materials alone.  We have a
    40' sloop and the luff is approximately 47'.  I do not know how thick 
    the wire is but it seems fairly substantial 5/16" maybe?  Does this 
    sound remotely reasonable for a wire forestay?  Just curious really 
    as it may be covered under our insurance policy and my partner is
    going to question the charges.  No we didn't get a quote either.  The 
    repair was done at Connanicut Marine in Jamestown, RI.  Also, any
    ideas as to the expense of having the rig/fittings magnafluxed?
    We may be able to get it done "cheaply" but what does this type
    of process usually cost?
    
    Thanks for any info,
    
    Brian
    

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1338.1overcharged perhapsMSCSSE::BERENSAlan BerensWed Sep 06 1989 20:0331
re .0:

From the 1989 Rigging Company (Portsmouth, RI) catalog: 

McWhyte 3/8" 1x19 stainless steel wire (good, US-made wire) is $2.99 per
foot (5/16" sound a mite light for a 40' boat, but it could be what you
have). So, the wire should have been about $141. One marine eye $41
(including swaging). One Navtec turnbuckle (including swaging) $124.
About $306 total. 

Your guess at how much time (including travel) was spent installing the
headstay is probably better than mine. @$40 per hour, the job took 7.5
hours (which seems like a bit much). 

I may be wrong, but I think Magnafluxing only works on magnetic
materials (most stainless steel isn't particularly magnetic) and it only
reveals surface cracks. That is, it won't show a broken wire inside a
swage. X-raying the fitting would show a break, however. I've no idea of
the cost. You can buy a kit of three spray-on chemicals that are
supposed to show surface cracks. Less than $50 (as I recall). I've no
idea how small a crack is detectable. Metal fatigue isn't detectable (so
far as I know), and headstays are quite prone to fatigue failure since
they are subject to constantly varying loads, both transverse and
longitudinal. To reduce the chance of failure in rod rigging, Navtec
makes some special fittings in which a sleeve is supposed to fail before
the rod. I had one of these put on my ten year old rod headstay last
winter. Replacement of headstays more often than the rest of the
standing rigging isn't a bad idea. Inspecting every fitting and wire
every year is an excellent idea. 


1338.2Seems very expensiveJUPITR::KTISTAKISMike K.Thu Sep 07 1989 10:4013
    re.0:
    Gee,you made my day!!!
    Now I have to worry how much Bill Munger(Conanicut marina owner)
    will charge me if I have him fix my transmission.
    I, somehow lost the oil shield,the one on the output shaft where
    it connects to the coupling which also shields the shaft hole on
    the clutch casing and keeps the oil running out.
    By the way,if you could climb the mast and install the forstay
    yourself I bet you could have made one for less than $300 at the
    Marine exchange in Peabody.As a matter of fact you should call
    and ask for a quote describing the materials Conanicut used before
    you confort Munger for overpricing..which he did in my opinion.

1338.3Maybe not toooo unreasonableVLNVAX::FRENIEREThu Sep 07 1989 16:3632
    I'm not sure you were over charged for the materials. That is,
    
    you were going to a shop that makes it's living, in part, on a profit
    margin on materials. You can not use Jamestown Distributors prices
    to figure a yards prices on materials. Edson charges 6.50 a foot for
    7 X 19 wire (5/16) whereas Jamestown charges about  1.45. 
    I think that is the nature of the business. 
    
    That is also why I buy from Jamestown D. after a few suprises at
    the yard where I kept my boat. And from Boat US or E&B rather than
    J.T.'s for most things....
    
    What I'm saying is that for yard work, the 144 buck premium you
    paid for materials may not be out of line.
    
    When I see 306 bucks labor, that is where I question it. That would
    be 7.5 hours labor at 40 bucks/hour. There may be a machinery charge
    for hoisting a rigger, that would tie up 2 guys for a while. They may
    have had to move your boat to  & from point where their hoist could
    reach it, that would tie up two guys for a while and perhaps use of
    their launch to move it. They might have had to make two trips up the
    mast, one to remove old stay and determine what type of fittings,
    second to install the new ones. Maybe even a trip to determine proper
    cable length of new one since a different turnbuckle might mean
    different length of stay, etc.
    
    As a young man I worked in yards, and as a wooden boat owner, I spent
    enough time in yards, to watch the operations. Every job you do is
    hand tailored. Yard workers are more artisans than mechanics........
    
    	Don

1338.4thanks - we'll see what the breakdown isFRAGIL::MCBRIDEMon Sep 11 1989 13:4610
    thanks for the responses.  We are going to get an itemized bill
    to see what the actual breakdown is.  I would not be surprised at
    all to see that two or more people were involved with the repair
    at all times.  This is what we get for walking in and saying "fix
    it please" without thinking through everything.  Oh well, we have
    a new forestay which hopefully will accommodate a new furler as
    that is actually went broke in the first place.  Next time.....
    
    Brian