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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

1333.0. "C&C 26" by MSCSSE::BERENS (Alan Berens) Fri Sep 01 1989 18:02

[I moved this to avoid a tangential discussion in Note 1330]

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Note 1330.5                  learning by experience                       5 of 5
MOOV01::KEENAN "PAUL KEENAN DTN 297-7332"             9 lines   1-SEP-1989 16:07
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    Alan,
    
    Excellent note! Can you give more details about why the C&C 26 would
    not go to windward. Was it the hull shape, rudder, righting moment,
    sail inventory, or reef points? Did you go on to find at what wind
    strength and sea conditions the boat became unmanageable? Was the loss
    of control gradual or sudden?
    
    -Paul 
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Well, since I haven't sailed a C&C 26 since late 1979, what follows is based 
on somewhat hazy memory.

The original C&C 26 is a very tender boat, which is what I liked least about 
it. (The design was later modified and called the Encounter 26 -- my
impression is that the newer design is a little stiffer, but I'm not sure.)
The hull sections are very round, so that the boat depends on its ballast for
stability. Going to weather in a big sea requires carrying sufficient sail to
maintain forward motion against the force of the waves. The C&C 26 is simply
too tender to carry enough sail to do this. In moderate seas (say less than 
four feet or so) with a relatively steady wind (say less than 20 to 25 knots) 
it is possible to keep the boat upright by pinching while still having enough 
drive to make progress to weather. Not all that hard to do, but as I recall 
doing so required substantial concentration and you had to round up in the 
gusts. Not something that you'd want to do for very long and not all that 
much fun, either. 

The C&C 26 has a spade rudder that will stall. With the mast tuned right, the 
boat steers well and is manageable even in fairly gusty winds. With the mast
raked too far aft the weather helm will overpower the rudder with
uncontrollable rounding up into the wind. Frightening. 

It has been so long since the gale that I don't remember the conditions all 
that clearly. We've sailed our very stiff Valiant 32 closehauled in fairly 
long gusts as high as 60 knots without much more than putting the lee rail 
down. Perhaps our Valiant could have been sailed to weather in that gale, but 
I wouldn't bet on it. The Valiant 32 has too much weather helm. Easing the 
helm results in a smooth, controllable rounding up in very heavy gusts, which 
I think makes the boat safer and reduces the chances of a knockdown.

And another conclusion that I might have mentioned is that substantial sail
carrying ability (stiffness) is required when venturing very far from shore. 

Alan

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1333.4I like my C&C 26MOORED::GERSTLECarl GerstleFri May 29 1987 10:2034
    I just bought a 26' 1977 C&C this year and am very happy with it
    so far.  I agree with Alan about your description of the engine
    - it sounds WAY too big.  My 1-lung Yanmar is rated at 8 HP and
    drives the boat nicely.  
                      
    The issue of a place to keep the boat and extra costs is very real
    but is not central to your choice of boat.  The C&C seemed good
    for me for some basic reasons:
    	Reasonably fast (BTW - is this a fin or shoal keel?)
    	Standing (5'11" - 6'0") headroom
    	Inboard diesel
    	Well constructed, good materials
	VERY spacious for a 26' boat (has a 10.5' beam).  Note that
	 the beam may cause you a problem if you put it in a slip,
    	 Coggeshall Marina claimed it was too beamy for a 25' slip so
    	 I am paying for a 30' slip!
    	Sleeps five
    	Comfortable cockpit and coamings
    
    I have tiller steering and am getting beaten up by my family to
    have a wheel installed (the tiller is long and tends to crush feet
    belonging to unaware crew) - but I like the responsiveness of the
    tiller, especially down-wind.
    
    The boat is very well balanced, showing little weather helm even
    under main-alone in a good breeze (22-25 kts).
    
    So, if your piggy-bank can stand the many calls upon its contents,
    and you find the same features important to you, GET a SURVEY and
    go for it!
    
    Carl

1333.1STEREO::HOFri Sep 01 1989 20:1955
    I concur with Alan's analysis of the C&C 26 and would extend his
    comments to all of the late 70's early 80's C&C's with the exception
    of the deep keel version of the C&C 40.  A friend had a C&C 26 which
    I sailed on frequently.  Initially we both thought of it as a stiff
    boat.  But this was illusory.  It was just that the boat only had
    a working jib and we never sailed close hauled.  My friend always
    motored if we had to go directly upwind.  Made sense since he intended
    to upgrade at the end of the season and didn't want to strain the
    boat.
    
    Returning from a long weekend's cruise on the Southern NE coast
    we encountered the usual wind tunnel in Buzzard's Bay as we headed
    North towards the Cape Cod Canal.  On went the motor as the sails
    got furled.  The one lunger yanmar made satifactory but very noisy
    progress against the 20 knot headwind and short chop.  Just as the
    motor coughed to a stop we remembered that we hadn't gased up since
    we left Bristol several days before.  And we'd used the motor
    extensively maneuvering in harbors and battery charging.  As soon
    as the sails went up the rail went down.  The helm was manageable
    with the 36' steering wheel but progress to weather was pathetic.
    Everything was under control but even small daysailors were going
    by us.  We eventually got impatient and headed back downwind to
    level out the boat so we could add gas from a gerry can.  Of course
    diesels can't restart after being run dry.  Enough was enough. 
    We sailed out of the channel into a cove where we anchored to get
    our act back together. 
    
    On subsequent sails we learned that when the whitecaps started to
    fly, it was time to turn on the motor.  I attributed the tenderness
    to large interior volume of the boat and the resulting high freeboard.
    The C&C 26 has a large and well appointed interior for a 26 footer.
    But there is a price to pay in performance.  When I bought a C&C
    34 with some racing friends I didn't think the handling problems
    would recur.  After all, the 34 has a much longer profile with respect
    to its height, not like the squat little 26.  HA!
    
    We learned a lot in the first race, a 20 knot day.  How to reef,
    how to change headsails, and what brouches were.  The 34 needed
    to have the #1 down by 12 knots.  And then you went right to the
    # 3.  Skip the #2 entirely.  Couldn't carry it.  First reef at 17,
    second at 20.  And Tartan 30's and Pearson 30's would steamroller
    us going by with full sail up.  
    
    The second season saw the addition of a 700 lb "boot" to the keel.
    It was a bit stiffer after that but still slow to weather.  The
    roundness of the hull has something to do with it but it's not that
    much rounder than others.  The deep keel 40 usually sailed to its
    rating.  But its keel is dramatically deeper than the 34's and its
    freeboard the same but spread out over a much longer hull.  Definitly
    not squat.  The newer C&C's are reputed to stiffer and faster than
    older counterparts.  Maybe some familiar with them can tell us how
    they do it.
    
    - gene

1333.2Comments from a current ownerMOORED::GERSTLETue Sep 05 1989 10:2234
I have owned (and still do) a C&C 26 for three seasons.  In fact, I talked to
Alan Berens about his experiences with the model before I bought mine. As I
experiment more with the boat and go out in stronger winds, the conclusions
that I arrive at are not too surprising.

The boat (a mast-head rig) _loves_ its headsail. I would guess that half its
driving power in winds below 15 knots comes from the head sail, and a fair bit
more as the wind comes up. Going to Block Island this year in 25 - 30 knots, I
found that the 100% working jib and double-reefed main moved the boat well.
Until such time as the hard dinghy filled with water through the dagger-board
trunk (which the manufacturer PROMISED would not happen!) we were able to make
5 to 6 knots close-hauled punching into 4 - 5 foot seas.  The filled dinghy
took about .6 knots off our speed. Strapping the dagger board in for the return
trip to Narragansett Bay kept the boat quite dry and more stable too!

Without a doubt, the boat is tender. It is possible to bury the lee rail in
12-14 knots with the 150 up and a crew of five on the weather rail.  The trick
I have found (and continue to find) is that the boat should be reefed early.
Nothing macho about it - just reef, get the boat on its feet, and make the
reefable jib the very last sail to come down in a real blow.

I don't think I would attempt an off-shore passage, though I know of people who
have sailed their C&C 26's to Bermuda. Come to think of it, I know of one
person who single-handed a J-24 to Bermuda and back too! There are many notes
in SAILING that discuss the relative wisdom of taking on a passage in a boat
which might not survive in the conditions which _could_ be found on such a
passage. For sailing in and around Narragansett Bay and the surrounding
islands, I truly like my C&C 26. The boat is strong, the interior large, the
one-lung 8 HP Yanmar sufficient. If and when I move up - it will be for more
space, longer water-line and more accouterments found on larger boats (like hot
pressure water) instead of finding dissatisfaction with this boat.

	Carl

1333.3MSCSSE::BERENSAlan BerensTue Sep 05 1989 17:146
re .2:

We too liked out C&C 26 very much and within its limitations it is a fine
boat. We sold it because we wanted to make longer (time and distance) cruises 
and offshore passages for which the boat isn't suitable.