Conference unifix::sailing

    12 months ago I had my mains'l retrofitted as fully battened and at the
    same time had a dutchman system fitted to it. Installed new topping
    lift and control lines myself. I have absolutely no complaints about
    the system, works well...when I loose the halyard the m'ns'l drops
    quickly and flakes atop the boom, no manhandling of sailcloth at all.
                                            
    This is on an Island Packet 38 (42' LOA)
    
    I should note that you do have to have a new sail cover made. Issue is
    not just zippers at the control line points, but more depth in cover to
    allow for broader flakes of sail.
    
    Tom
    

    
    
    Is it possible to have the Lazy Jack installed without having the
    sail fully battened?  I noticed a couple of folks in our yard did
    just that.  I wonder if it works as well?
    
    Anyone have any experience here?
    
    Sandy

    There is no reason why a lazy jack system couldn't be installed
    without a full battened main. I have lazy jack on my 37'. I expect
    that a full battened main would help in the auto folding process.
    

    How well does the Dutchman system work in heavy winds (say >30 knots)?
    Some systems that work well in light winds are a disaster in heavy
    winds. Ever notice that advertising pictures for roller reefing
    headsails are taken on nearly calm days?
    
    Skeptical Sailor

    Alan,
    
    I not sure what you're concerned about but..... I've dropped sail in
    25-30 and chop outside P-town, and I've reefed numerous times in
    25-35. The only hitch, if you could call it that, is that you must
    maintain your heading into the wind while dropping the sail else the
    friction of the control lines tends to keep the sail aloft. This is
    normal procedure anyway.
    
    For those who aren't quite sure of what the Dutchman system is, here's
    a brief description:
    
    The Dutchman system differs from normal lazy jacks in that there is one
    set of control lines which are 'woven' through the sails at three-four
    points for each of two control lines. The holes where the line goes
    thru the sail are reinforced  with large nylon 'grommets' with oval
    vertical holes. The control lines are fastened to a special topping
    lift at the top and adjustable fasters on the foot of the sail.
    
    The 'special topping' lift is a continuous loop. The top of the new
    topping lift is run through a block whose becket is attached to the
    shackle of your original topping lift. The original topping lift is
    then raised to within one foot of the top of the mast. The other end
    of the continuous loop is connected to a fitting at the aft end of the
    boom. This fitting allows the loop to be adjusted and then fixed in
    place. The top end of the control lines are attached with special
    fittings to the topping lift fixed to one side of loop. Sorta like
    laundry hanging on the old continuous loop backyard wash line. All of
    this allows easy installation and periodic adjustment for stretch etc.
    
    Description is of the newer "B" system, the older system was not as
    easy to install or maintain.
    
    Although the description may sound complicated, operation is simple.
    
    Once the topping lift is adjusted such that boom is slightly lower when
    mains'l is not raised than it would be with main up,  no further
    operations are necessary. I haven't touched the topping lift yet this
    season.
    
    Regards,
    
    Tom
    
    
      
    

re .5:

>>>    The only hitch, if you could call it that, is that you must
>>>    maintain your heading into the wind while dropping the sail else the
>>>    friction of the control lines tends to keep the sail aloft. This is
>>>    normal procedure anyway.
    
This is exactly the sort of thing I worry about. If you have to head 
directly into the wind, the sails will flog and you will soon be without 
steerage way. Mainsails are hard enough to get down in a blow without 
added friction. Besides, I normally reef with the boat just enough off 
the wind to keep the sails drawing slightly. This prevents flogging and 
provides enough drive to maintain steerageway.

Re your description of the system: It sort of violates the keep it 
simple theory just to make flaking the mainsail a bit easier. Or am I 
missing something? Moreover, my topping lift is a spare main halyard 
shackled to a fitting at the outer end of the boom. I'd prefer to keep 
it that way. 

The Zip-Stop mainsail reefing system supposedly makes life simpler, but 
to take the mainsail off the mast track (say, to hoist a storm trysail) 
you have to completely unreef the mainsail first! Not really possible in
a bad gale. I was just wondering if the Dutchman system has any similar
hidden flaws. 

RE: .6

>>"The Zip-Stop mainsail reefing system supposedly makes life simpler, but 
>>to take the mainsail off the mast track (say, to hoist a storm trysail) 
>>you have to completely unreef the mainsail first! Not really possible in
>>a bad gale."

    
I am not familiar with the ZIP-stop but to avoid the need to take
down the sail on a Hood Stowaway, a track is installed just to the 
side of the slot for the main.  The main is then furled and then 
the trysail is raised on this track.  That is what was done for Dodge
Morgan's boat American Promise in his circumnavigation.